Re: [Talk-GB] Anybody a member of CAMRA?

2015-09-16 Thread Lester Caine 
On 16/09/15 17:36, Dave F. wrote:
> I was trying to find out how many GB pubs/bars there were in OSM. Didn't
> Taginfo used to have a option to just search the UK? It appears to have
> been removed. Is there another way?

I'm looking for the same sort of thing myself ... parishes in county and
the like, but pub is equally relevant ...

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Re: [Talk-GB] Anybody a member of CAMRA?

2015-09-16 Thread Ed Loach 
Dave F. wrote:

> Considering CAMRA's What Pub? website is volunteer, crowd sourced, I was 

> mildly disappointed to see it using Google maps. I've just this minute 

> written an email to them explaining some of the advantages of using OSM.

 

Andrew Black commented:

> My concern is the quality of their location data - they suffer from the

> well known myth that a postcode defines the location.

 

Jerry added:

> The data in WhatPub should essentially be regarded as a commercial dataset

> which has value for CAMRA

and

> On the other hand using an OSM base map ought to be a reasonable thing to

> do.

 

I'm on the CAMRA WhatPub email list and a couple of people have suggested using 
OSM as recently as August (I might have been one).

 

Quick summary:

Each branch maintains the data for the pubs in their branch area, so quality 
varies from area to area

Each branch maintains their data in a system which isn't WhatPub (many use one 
of SPILE, HOPS or Pubzilla, though some have their own)

There are mechanisms for sending updates to WhatPub (CSV import or API)

 

Our branch (Tendring CAMRA) uses Spile (and I maintain the data). When adding a 
new pub you can optionally specify latitude and longitude (I always do) most 
easily by dragging a pin on a Google aerial view. If these aren't specified 
than WhatPub will use the postcode as the best information it has.

 

I agree with Jerry's comments.

 

Dave also wrote:

> Ancillary data such as beer lists, food, opening times etc, is probably 
> valuable to 

> CAMRA, but I don't see it as relevant to OSM. These sort of things change so 

> often, it's out of date almost as soon as it's recorded. Just a tag to their 
> website is 

> needed.

 

If you do add a link, then you don't need all of

http://whatpub.com/pubs/MAN/9899/eagle-inn-salford

the ID is meant to remain the same whether the pub moves branch (if branch 
boundaries change/new branch is formed) and whether the pub name changes so

http://whatpub.com/pubs/MAN/9899/

will work even if the pub name changes.

 

> However a list of just pub names & locations that could be checked against 
> OSM database would 

> potentially benefit both parities. Pubs that are only in OSM could be listed 
> in What Pub as a 'to do' 

> so encourage CAMRA members to pay them a visit. 

 

I mentioned the WhatPub email list. One thread began because of

https://twitter.com/RealAleNet/status/626804090555621377?s=03

so it looks like at that time OSM had about 29,000 pubs (see below - that seems 
low). WhatPub's home page says it has details of over 35,000 real ale pubs (it 
doesn't show how many non-real ale pubs and closed pubs are also in the 
database)

 

> I was trying to find out how many GB pubs/bars there were in OSM. Didn't 
> Taginfo used to have a 

> option to just search the UK? It appears to have been removed. Is there 
> another way?

 

http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk

shows 35,387 amenity=pub

 

Ed

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Re: [Talk-GB] Anybody a member of CAMRA?

2015-09-16 Thread Dave F. 
Ancillary data such as beer lists, food, opening times etc, is probably 
valuable to CAMRA, but I don't see it as relevant to OSM. These sort of 
things change so often, it's out of date almost as soon as it's 
recorded. Just a tag to their website is needed.


However a list of just pub names & locations that could be checked 
against OSM database would potentially benefit both parities. Pubs that 
are only in OSM could be listed in What Pub as a 'to do' so encourage 
CAMRA members to pay them a visit.


I was trying to find out how many GB pubs/bars there were in OSM. Didn't 
Taginfo used to have a option to just search the UK? It appears to have 
been removed. Is there another way?


Dave F.

On 16/09/2015 16:06, SK53 wrote:
I did discuss this with the local CAMRA representative responsible for 
the pub data, about 18 months ago.


The data in WhatPub should essentially be regarded as a commercial 
dataset which has value for CAMRA (for instance in persuading people 
to join, or as base data for the Good Beer Guide): they are unlikely 
to want to make it freely available to OSM.


On the other hand using an OSM base map ought to be a reasonable thing 
to do.


Jerry

On 16 September 2015 at 15:10, Andrew Black 
mailto:andrewdbl...@googlemail.com>> wrote:


My concern is the quality of their location data - they suffer
from the well known myth that a postcode defines the location.  I
have helped in a few specific cases but the local branch didn't
seem interested in for example checking the locaion of pubs before
uploading.
This then leads to concerns that the licence is  problematic as
presumably googles geocoder has been used.


On 16 Sep 2015 14:11, "Dave F." mailto:dave...@madasafish.com>> wrote:

Hi

http://whatpub.com/pubs/MAN/9899/eagle-inn-salford

Considering CAMRA's What Pub? website is volunteer, crowd
sourced, I was mildly disappointed to see it using Google
maps. I've just this minute written an email to them
explaining some of the advantages of using OSM. I thought if
any actual CAMRA members here could also chip in it might
persuade them to swap over. ca...@camra.org.uk.


It might even be possible to share databases to improve the
quality of both.

Cheers
Dave F.



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Re: [Talk-GB] Anybody a member of CAMRA?

2015-09-16 Thread SK53 
I did discuss this with the local CAMRA representative responsible for the
pub data, about 18 months ago.

The data in WhatPub should essentially be regarded as a commercial dataset
which has value for CAMRA (for instance in persuading people to join, or as
base data for the Good Beer Guide): they are unlikely to want to make it
freely available to OSM.

On the other hand using an OSM base map ought to be a reasonable thing to
do.

Jerry

On 16 September 2015 at 15:10, Andrew Black 
wrote:

> My concern is the quality of their location data - they suffer from the
> well known myth that a postcode defines the location.  I have helped in a
> few specific cases but the local branch didn't seem interested in for
> example checking the locaion of pubs before uploading.
> This then leads to concerns that the licence is  problematic as presumably
> googles geocoder has been used.
>
>
> On 16 Sep 2015 14:11, "Dave F."  wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> http://whatpub.com/pubs/MAN/9899/eagle-inn-salford
>>
>> Considering CAMRA's What Pub? website is volunteer, crowd sourced, I was
>> mildly disappointed to see it using Google maps. I've just this minute
>> written an email to them explaining some of the advantages of using OSM. I
>> thought if any actual CAMRA members here could also chip in it might
>> persuade them to swap over. ca...@camra.org.uk. 
>>
>> It might even be possible to share databases to improve the quality of
>> both.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Dave F.
>>
>>
>> --
>> [image: Avast logo] 
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>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> www.avast.com 
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Re: [Talk-GB] Anybody a member of CAMRA?

2015-09-16 Thread Dave F. 

Hi Andrew

The location was one of the plus points of OSM I mentioned in my email 
to them, however, for the ones I've checked they don't appear to be 
/that/ bad. They certainly appeared to be better than Google itself 
(Inside a roundabout for instance) so I was curious if CAMRA had used 
google's geocoder. From there website Is there as way to check?


Dave F>

On 16/09/2015 15:10, Andrew Black wrote:
My concern is the quality of their location data - they suffer from 
the well known myth that a postcode defines the location.  I have 
helped in a few specific cases but the local branch didn't seem 
interested in for example checking the locaion of pubs before uploading.
This then leads to concerns that the licence is  problematic as 
presumably googles geocoder has been used.



On 16 Sep 2015 14:11, "Dave F." > wrote:


Hi

http://whatpub.com/pubs/MAN/9899/eagle-inn-salford

Considering CAMRA's What Pub? website is volunteer, crowd sourced,
I was mildly disappointed to see it using Google maps. I've just
this minute written an email to them explaining some of the
advantages of using OSM. I thought if any actual CAMRA members
here could also chip in it might persuade them to swap over.
ca...@camra.org.uk. 

It might even be possible to share databases to improve the
quality of both.

Cheers
Dave F.



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Re: [Talk-GB] Anybody a member of CAMRA?

2015-09-16 Thread Andrew Black 
My concern is the quality of their location data - they suffer from the
well known myth that a postcode defines the location.  I have helped in a
few specific cases but the local branch didn't seem interested in for
example checking the locaion of pubs before uploading.
This then leads to concerns that the licence is  problematic as presumably
googles geocoder has been used.


On 16 Sep 2015 14:11, "Dave F."  wrote:

> Hi
>
> http://whatpub.com/pubs/MAN/9899/eagle-inn-salford
>
> Considering CAMRA's What Pub? website is volunteer, crowd sourced, I was
> mildly disappointed to see it using Google maps. I've just this minute
> written an email to them explaining some of the advantages of using OSM. I
> thought if any actual CAMRA members here could also chip in it might
> persuade them to swap over. ca...@camra.org.uk. 
>
> It might even be possible to share databases to improve the quality of
> both.
>
> Cheers
> Dave F.
>
>
> --
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>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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[Talk-GB] Anybody a member of CAMRA?

2015-09-16 Thread Dave F. 

Hi

http://whatpub.com/pubs/MAN/9899/eagle-inn-salford

Considering CAMRA's What Pub? website is volunteer, crowd sourced, I was 
mildly disappointed to see it using Google maps. I've just this minute 
written an email to them explaining some of the advantages of using OSM. 
I thought if any actual CAMRA members here could also chip in it might 
persuade them to swap over. ca...@camra.org.uk. 


It might even be possible to share databases to improve the quality of both.

Cheers
Dave F.


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