Re: [Talk-GB] FHRS/OSM comparison tool now includes graphs

2017-10-24 Thread Gregrs 
I've been in touch with the FSA and I'm glad to say that the geocodes 
for many establishments in Copeland, Middlesborough, Sedgemeoor, 
Portsmouth and South Tyneside are back, so their data can be accessed 
using the comparison tool (http://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org/fhrs) 
again.


Stirling is still missing a large number of geocodes, I'm afraid, but 
this has been a long standing issue as shown on 
http://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org/fhrs/district-334.html.


Thanks,
Greg


On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 03:52:20PM +0100, Gregrs wrote:

Several authorities (Copeland, Middlesborough, Sedgemeoor, Portsmouth 
and South Tyneside) seem to have removed geocodes for a large number of 
their FHRS establishments recently, as shown by the sharp dropoff 
towards the end of the first graph on this page: 
http://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org/fhrs-stats/summary-graphs.html. I'm 
planning to contact the FSA regarding this as the comparison tool 
relies on these geocodes in order to place establishments into a 
specific district and show their approximate location.


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Re: [Talk-GB] FHRS/OSM comparison tool now includes graphs

2017-10-23 Thread Gregrs 

Hi David,

On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 05:15:25PM +0100, David Woolley wrote:

Using postcode centroids is why so many self contributed business POIs 
on Google Maps are almost useless for finding the business.  I hope 
no-one is adding POIs based on such data.


I agree. This is why the comparison tool 
(http://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org/fhrs) doesn't allow users to copy 
the location of FHRS establishments into JOSM, only to copy tags for an 
establishment which is suggested as a match for an existing OSM node/way 
or is already matched using an fhrs:id but has a mismatched postcode.


Thanks,
Greg

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Re: [Talk-GB] FHRS/OSM comparison tool now includes graphs

2017-10-23 Thread David Woolley 

On 23/10/17 16:23, Gregrs wrote:


I'm not sure; it seems to be reverse-geocoded from postcode centroids 
(which is one reason I wouldn't recommend anyone directly copying FHRS 
data into OSM without some manual processing). I have contacted the FSA 
to see what can be done.


Using postcode centroids is why so many self contributed business POIs 
on Google Maps are almost useless for finding the business.  I hope 
no-one is adding POIs based on such data.


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Re: [Talk-GB] FHRS/OSM comparison tool now includes graphs

2017-10-23 Thread paul.bivand 
A lot of authorities exclude up to a third of fhrs records from geocoding.  
These seem to largely be people trading from home and many social care 
establishments e.g. refuges from domestic violence. 
It's quite plausible that authority practice on this can change.
Paulbiv.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
 Original message From: Gregrs <gre...@fastmail.co.uk> Date: 
23/10/2017  16:30  (GMT+00:00) To: "Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)" 
<robert.whittaker+...@gmail.com> Cc: talk-gb <talk-gb@openstreetmap.org> 
Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] FHRS/OSM comparison tool now includes graphs 
Hi Robert,

On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 04:22:35PM +0100, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) 
wrote:

>If you still have postcodes for those, you can look up the postcode
>centroid in Code-Point Open and use that as the lat/lon instead. (In
>fact, I think that's what the locations you're currently showing are
>at least in a few local authority areas around me -- establishments
>with the same postcode seem to have coincident marker positions -- so
>presumably that's how many of the  coordinates have been
>computed in the first place.)

Thanks for your email. Yes, I'm pretty sure that's how the locations 
have been derived in most cases and the comparison tool coalesces nearby 
establishments into a single marker position and displays a list in the 
popup for that reason.

If the FSA aren't able to solve the problem, I may add another stage of 
processing to the comparison tool and look up postcode centroids.

Thanks,
Greg

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Re: [Talk-GB] FHRS/OSM comparison tool now includes graphs

2017-10-23 Thread Gregrs 

Hi Robert,

On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 04:22:35PM +0100, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) 
wrote:



If you still have postcodes for those, you can look up the postcode
centroid in Code-Point Open and use that as the lat/lon instead. (In
fact, I think that's what the locations you're currently showing are
at least in a few local authority areas around me -- establishments
with the same postcode seem to have coincident marker positions -- so
presumably that's how many of the  coordinates have been
computed in the first place.)


Thanks for your email. Yes, I'm pretty sure that's how the locations 
have been derived in most cases and the comparison tool coalesces nearby 
establishments into a single marker position and displays a list in the 
popup for that reason.


If the FSA aren't able to solve the problem, I may add another stage of 
processing to the comparison tool and look up postcode centroids.


Thanks,
Greg

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http://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org
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Re: [Talk-GB] FHRS/OSM comparison tool now includes graphs

2017-10-23 Thread Gregrs 

Hi David,

On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 04:03:11PM +0100, David Woolley wrote:


Is it possible that they were using NPLG data, that is not open?


I'm not sure; it seems to be reverse-geocoded from postcode centroids 
(which is one reason I wouldn't recommend anyone directly copying FHRS 
data into OSM without some manual processing). I have contacted the FSA 
to see what can be done.


Thanks,
Greg

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Re: [Talk-GB] FHRS/OSM comparison tool now includes graphs

2017-10-23 Thread Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) 
On 23 October 2017 at 15:52, Gregrs  wrote:
> Several authorities (Copeland, Middlesborough, Sedgemeoor, Portsmouth and
> South Tyneside) seem to have removed geocodes for a large number of their
> FHRS establishments recently, as shown by the sharp dropoff towards the end
> of the first graph on this page:
> http://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org/fhrs-stats/summary-graphs.html. I'm
> planning to contact the FSA regarding this as the comparison tool relies on
> these geocodes in order to place establishments into a specific district and
> show their approximate location.

If you still have postcodes for those, you can look up the postcode
centroid in Code-Point Open and use that as the lat/lon instead. (In
fact, I think that's what the locations you're currently showing are
at least in a few local authority areas around me -- establishments
with the same postcode seem to have coincident marker positions -- so
presumably that's how many of the  coordinates have been
computed in the first place.)

Robert

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Re: [Talk-GB] FHRS/OSM comparison tool now includes graphs

2017-10-23 Thread David Woolley 

On 23/10/17 15:52, Gregrs wrote:


Several authorities (Copeland, Middlesborough, Sedgemeoor, Portsmouth 
and South Tyneside) seem to have removed geocodes for a large number of 
their FHRS establishments recently, as shown by the sharp dropoff


Is it possible that they were using NPLG data, that is not open?

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[Talk-GB] FHRS/OSM comparison tool now includes graphs

2017-10-23 Thread Gregrs 
The FHRS/OSM comparison tool (http://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org/fhrs) 
now includes graphs showing progress for each district (e.g. 
http://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org/fhrs/district-91.html) and for the 
whole of Great Britain 
(http://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org/fhrs-stats/summary-graphs.html). 
Feel free to report bugs or suggest improvements here: 
https://github.com/gregrs-uk/fhrs-osm-stats.


Several authorities (Copeland, Middlesborough, Sedgemeoor, Portsmouth 
and South Tyneside) seem to have removed geocodes for a large number of 
their FHRS establishments recently, as shown by the sharp dropoff 
towards the end of the first graph on this page: 
http://gregrs.dev.openstreetmap.org/fhrs-stats/summary-graphs.html. I'm 
planning to contact the FSA regarding this as the comparison tool relies 
on these geocodes in order to place establishments into a specific 
district and show their approximate location.


Thanks,
Greg

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