Re: [OSM-talk] is OSM a fake map.
Is a map "fake" if it's incorrect? There is *no such* thing as a 100% correct map, they don't exist. Any map you buy commercially is likely to be outdated before it's printed. Is OSM more or less accurate than the alternatives? It varies. Enthusiasts will sometimes eagerly map changes on the ground. A newly opened lightrail? If there's enthusiasts around, it will be there - way before any commercial map has added it. "Armchair mappers" will sometimes use air photos and other sources to map areas, without having local knowledge. But to some extent, this also happens with commercial maps. They are often made from photos nowadays, and both humans and software might interpret them wrong. I believe OSM is pretty decent, but 100% correct? Of course not. - Vegard On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 03:41:47PM +0300, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote: > > yes i used a phone to check it out, > > but if the tracers are using old images, who to say the rest of the world is > correct. > > rivers, streams, trails, sidewalks dry flood ponds bus stops, gates, fences, > billboards phone towers, ect. > > From: Oleksiy Muzalyev > Sent: Monday, December 30, 2019 6:00 AM > To: 80hnhtv4a...@bk.ru > Cc: OSM Talk > Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] is OSM a fake map. > > You can make the map quite precise and up to date by employing a GPS tracker. > Here is, for example, a 431 km GPS trace which I recorded with the Garmin 35 > eTrex device (no affiliation) earlier this month in Mexico from inside the > bus: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/4330126920 . This GPS trace > is also published to the OSM map. > > Garmin 35 uses the EGNOS, the European Geostationary Navigation Overlay > Service, a satellite based augmentation system, in Europe, and the WAAS, the > Wide Area Augmentation System, in the North America. It is capable to record > a GPS trace for about 20 hours on a pair of cheap alkaline AA batteries even > from inside the train, bus, car, or on bicycle. > > It is possible to build a DIY, do-it-yourself, GPS tracker from and Arduino > type micro-controller [1] and a 15 USD GPS module [2]. The total cost would > be about 30.- USD. There are videos on Youtube on how to do it. > > So one can record a GPS trace while cycling around a new building or a park, > then publish the GPS trace to the OSM map, and finally to map them precisely > and up to date in an editor by the GPS traces, even if they are not on > satellite images yet. > > [1] > https://www.banggood.com/Wholesale-ATMEGA328-328p-5V-16MHz-Pro-Mini-PCB-Module-Board-p-68534.html > [2] > https://www.banggood.com/UBLOX-NEO-M8N-BN-880-Flight-Control-GPS-Module-Dual-Module-Compass-p-971082.html > > Best regards, > Oleksiy > > > On 12/29/19 22:46, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote: > >i am talking about in my own back yard, > > > >i just hiked a mile down the street to check it out, it was not the same > >when i was there in > > > >1985, but it did not match the mapper either. > > > >to that end, bing is 2015 or 16, > > > >as an example the county forest preserve map took from osm, so mappers have > >copied that and it is wrong > > > >and how do you see thing under the trees unless you walk it. > > > >so who is to say that any of OSM is not fake. > > > >if all mappers are tracing. > > > >From: john whelan > >Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2019 1:08 PM > >To: 80hnhtv4a...@bk.ru > >Cc: OSM Talk > >Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] is OSM a fake map. > > > >I'm fairly lucky in that in the last three years nothing much has changed > >locally. The highways have stayed much the same. Most buildings are still > >there. > > > >If you use Bing to add things then realistically it fills in gaps in the > >map. If you delete things because they are not in Bing that is a quite > >different matter. > > > >Does it matter if the mapper lives more than five miles away? Well I've > >mapped places a few thousand miles away but they were places I knew very > >well as I used to live there. > > > >I don't think OSM will ever be completely accurate. Having said that it is > >still very useful for many purposes. > > > >Cheerio John > >On Sun, 29 Dec 2019, 12:31 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk, < > >talk@openstreetmap.org > wrote: > >>it say in some wiki. to correct what you find wrong on the map, > >> > >>not one “other nearby users” is a current mapper, and all edits in a 5 mile > >>radius are not coming from an on the ground > >> > >>mappers in my area but 20 mi
Re: [OSM-talk] Data copied from Google Maps
On Tue, Nov 06, 2012 at 09:58:11AM +0100, Vladimir Vyskocil wrote: On 5 nov. 2012, at 23:39, Cartinus carti...@xs4all.nl wrote: Copyright has absolutely nothing to do with this at all. All arguments people use in this this discussion in relation to copyright are just a smokescreen to try to get their way. When viewing Google StreetView you are using a service from Google. The rules in relation to that, are the rules for business transactions, not those of copyright. Just like Openstreetmap has rules that say you are not allowed to scrape tiles from our tileserver, Google has rules that say when you are allowed to use their services. Yes and they say I'm not allowed to copy all or parts of the provided material (images,...) and also that I can't make derivative work. When I interpret what I can see in Street View photos and write it down I'm doing neither of these ! I'm sorry, but this statememt is just plain wrong in regards to OSM. When (and I say when) we get good enough that we are the default map to be used in online services, we want to be absolutely sure that neither Google or other sources of information (that we are not sure that we are allowed to use) can come and say that hey, we own large parts of your database, pay up!. I'm not speaking about the likelihood of getting sued by Google, but I thought the general consensus was to be on the safe side when it comes to copyright questions. Any wrongfully data will also destroy *my* work, especially if I have based my work on top of that again. I can guarantee that *I* will be pissed, not at the Google out there that demands their data removed, but at the culprit that added it to OSM in the first place. So anyone who considers adding stuff that is not 100% OK to copy is destroying the project from within, not helping it. Period. -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Data copied from Google Maps
On Tue, Nov 06, 2012 at 10:28:45AM +0100, Pieren wrote: A public domain street sign does not become automagically a copyrighted derivative work just because you see it through a copyrighted photo. And this is true worldwide, not only in some countries. But some people are continuing to keep the doubts because they have a preference for surveys on the ground (something we have to promote anyway but with fair arguments). Claiming copyright ownership on public domain material has a name, it's called copyfraud ([1]) and is rarely sued in court in comparison to copyright infringements. The legality around copyright on collections of facts are different throughout the world. We have to assume that collections of facts are, indeed, copyrightable, and that a lawsuit (or even just bad publicity) based on it will be able to stick. -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Very Happy - Looking forward
What about editor facebook support for editors? :) No, I'm actually serious - Vegard Engen mapped insert changeset comment here, near a place in the changeset. ? Of course with a few links in the post that appears on facebook. - Vegard On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 08:25:45PM -0700, Mikel Maron wrote: Great spirit! Now that we're past this milestone, it opens up our headspace and energy for building what's next Wish there was a place to consistently capture these ideas, and put movement behind them. There's a bunch of stuff on the wiki http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Usability http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Things_To_Do Several lists, groups, processes. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Design_Mailing_List http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Engineering_Working_Group My interest is still in building out social features http://brainoff.com/weblog/2012/03/30/1773 * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron From: Matt Williams li...@milliams.com To: talk@openstreetmap.org Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 9:14 AM Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Very Happy - Looking forward On 23 July 2012 16:54, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote: Sören Gasch said: * Improve ease of editing (like wheelmap, a simple editor that lets you amend JUST the tags - name, opening hoursm, url etc..). There will be the Amenity Editor which kind of does what you propose. See - http://ae.osmsurround.org/ - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Amenity_Editor and Roland Olbricht said: * Make it easy to users to view the data (eg clicking a node/way could bring up data about it - the url and opening hours tags are not visible in map renders but is very useful to many end users) There is already a prototype that does show all data http://overpass-api.de/open_layers_popup.html Wow these both look really good. The editor would really decrease the barrier to entry (e.g. shop owners could easily add their opening hours). What's holding this project back from being more prominently placed on the map front page / How can I help? Also, there's also the newer iD (http://www.geowiki.com/, http://www.geowiki.com/iD/) which is aiming to be a simple tag and POI editor. It's not fully working yet but I imagine that development will happen fast. -- Matt Williams http://milliams.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0 continuation : A solution proposal
Well. Then I come along, add an amenity=cafe, under a CCBYSA2.0-license. But at the wrong spot. And you, having chosen an OdBL-license, decides to move it to the correct position. Under what license is that node? This isn't going to be easy, hardly possible? :) - Vegard On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 07:58:22AM +0200, ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen wrote: A fork as stipulated is not necessarily about a group of people leaving OSM , but about we (OSM) deciding to continue in two or more future directions covered by different licenses, and maybe finally decide which license fits best. This would require the OSM database to include a extra field for each and every item indicating the license the data was provided by its contributor. The license choice can be made in the users profile. For most of OSM there is no difference. The license is only relevant once data is extracted to external parties. External parties will therefore always know under what license any node and any way of the database had been granted to them. The map server and most applications at would remain as they are. We may however create a second and or more maps showing only the data from specific licenses and enabling OSM-ers to evaluate the consequences of their choices. I think this is the only way to solve this everlasting and destructive license discussion. It requires however, some flexibility of mind, and the trust that OSM will not abuse the choice made by its contributors. As the database and the license field will be visible to all of us, I trust that will be not a major problem. Gert Gremmen - Openstreetmap.nl (alias: cetest) P Before printing, think about the environment. Van: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] Namens 80n Verzonden: Monday, August 23, 2010 5:17 PM Aan: m...@koppenhoefer.com CC: talk@openstreetmap.org Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk] Let's prepare to Fork OSM to a CCBYSA 2.0continuation On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 3:21 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/8/23 Michael Kugelmann michaelk_...@gmx.de: BTW: @Felix Hartmann using words like so fuck off. shows that you don't have arguments. So step back - defamation is alsways a sign of weakness. Learn a good conduct before you continues with the discussion. to be fair: he didn't write (others) should f**k off, what he meant was clearly state this somewhere and tell everyone else to fuck off. Thus I agree that this might not be adequate language, you shouldn't critisize him for that, probably he wasn't aware because English is not his primary language. On the argument I agree though: make your own mailing lists for your fork. It's probably OK to announce it here (with an URL where to go, which was actually missing in your announcement), but further discussions should then be brought to the place of your fork, not inside the resources of OSM. I also agree it would be absurd to have OSM handle over the account data of its contributors (and is against almost any privacy law at least in Europe). There is also no logics in that: people who want to can simply create a new account with their old credentials on the fork site (I'm not planning to join the fork, but if I was I surely wouldn't use the same pw I used for OSM). There is absolutely no need for OSM to relinquish any private account data. No fork will ever need that data and I doubt that any fork would even bother asking OSM for it. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [NUUG kart] NVDB igjen...
veg...@engen.priv.no wrote on 24.08.2010 11:19:02: On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 10:41:32AM +0200, Sverre Didriksen wrote: Det kan godt være du har rett. Ville bare nevne det siden de sa de fikk en del data fra traffikanten. Jeg ser på nettsiden at de bare dekker det sentrale østlandsområdet, så da er de ikke aktuelle for Bergensområdet uansett. Og da er vi igjen tilbake til spørsmålet mitt: Er det noen som har hatt kontakt med Statens Vegvesen/NVDB-mennesker tidligere? Om jeg ikke får høylytte protester, komponerer og sender jeg en mail ikveld. Se over. -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Re: Why PD is not better for business
We do. There are data that are not so easiliy trackable. Borders, for example, are almost impossible to track yourself, unless you have a textual and non-ambiguous description, like follows this river. Which reminds me of the project I had looked forward to do: Canoeing the russian-norwegian border river with a GPS :) Unfortunately, we got the data through other means :) - Vegard On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 09:02:09PM +1100, Elizabeth Dodd wrote: so we don't need imported data? -- Forwarded Message -- Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Why PD is not better for business Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 From: paul youlten paul.youl...@gmail.com To: Liz ed...@billiau.net Liz, The coastline I did back in the old days was between Hastings in Sussex and Folkestone in Kent. I did this by walking along the high tide mark with my GPS. Bits of coastline that were inaccessible (e.g: Harbors, cliffs and off shore islands) were done with the assistance of Yahoo Aerial photos. Really, we made perfectly good street maps without importing data for some years before people started bulk importing data. PY On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 9:24 AM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Fri, 11 Dec 2009, paul youlten wrote: Saying This would be a disaster is a bit hyperbolic. Sure, people who hate OSMapping and just want to use bulk imports will be very, very disappointed, and possibly even a bit upset that they actually have to go out into the real world and make maps. ;-) I find your attitude very difficult to understand. You may feel that we shouldn't use any information that we can get from 'elsewhere' but you might like to check your own country. If it has a coastline, was it mapped by an OSM mapper in a kayak or was it imported data? -- Tel: +44(0) 7814 517 807 --- -- BOFH excuse #193: Did you pay the new Support Fee? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Seeing only my traces in JOSM ?
On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 02:32:41PM +, Jonathan Bennett wrote: In Potlatch, 'Shift+g' shows only your traces and 'g' show all the traces (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Potlatch/Keyboard_shortcuts). But the same shortcuts don't work in JOSM and nothing similar is listed in http://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Shortcuts. Is there a way to do that or should I file a wishlist bug for JOSM ? You can load your traces from local files. If you then don't download the public traces (or hide the layer if you do) you'll only see them. My workflow is,, roughly: 1) Load my own traces into josm, those that I intend to map from today. 2) Download both GPS data and map data from OSM. Make sure to tick the download as new layer, so that the GPS data is not mixed with yours. 3) Change the color for my own GXS tracks, so that I see what is my own and what is downloaded. 4) If things get too cluttered from GPS points, it's easy to hide the downloaded GPX points and just see your own. 5) After you're done with a GPX, upload it to OSM. It's good to have as a source reference. -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] coastline accuracy?
On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 11:25:20AM +0100, mle wrote: So what's going on here? Are the coastline traces somehow displaced, and if so, how can this be corrected ? Coastline traces are often inaccurate, and often displaced. The best option is to adjust them manually. At least in JOSM I can move the landsat layer. So I'll try to match the landsat layer to known features, for example roads visible on the satelitte images. Then, I'll move the coastline manually so that it matches the landsat images A bit tedious, but I'll normally always do it if I map so close to the sea that this accuracy becomes important. -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] License plan
On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 01:09:31PM +, OJ W wrote: Do we need to collect stats on what percentage of data is from users who are active and contactable and still care about editing maps? (e.g. what percentage of non-bulk-upload data was originally from someone who logged-in within the last month) That would be a good metric. Also, - how many users have not logged in for a year ? - how many users with significant/long-term contributions have not logged in for a month/year ? -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-it] funicolare
A Bergen, Norvegia, ho utilizato railway=narrow_gauge per questo funicolare: http://www.floibanen.com/default.asp - Vegard On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 02:29:30PM +0100, Luca Delucchi wrote: 2009/1/15 Federico Cozzi f.co...@gmail.com: On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 1:09 PM, andreaf...@alice.it wrote: Ciao a tutti vorrei sapere quale tag utilizzare per una funicolare ho cercato di controllare se questo quesito è già stato affrontato ma non ho trovato nulla si ma puoi anche controllare il map features[1] ;-), nella parte Railway[2] ci sono due tag che potrebbero andare bene light_rail o monorail Prova a guardare qui: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Piste_Maps stanno mappando le piste da sci e sono molto precisi relativamente al tipo di impianto (seggiovia, cabinovia, funivia, ecc.) la funicolare non c'entra nulla con le piste da sci...comunque bello Piste Maps qualche tempo fa sembrava abbandonato! ora mi metterò a mappare bene gli impianti del cuneese Ciao ciao Luca [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features#Railway ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] domanda 4: Venezia
On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 01:19:48PM -0800, Ezio Querini wrote: --- Dom 28/12/08, Alberto Malagoli albem...@gmail.com ha scritto: Da: Alberto Malagoli albem...@gmail.com Oggetto: Re: [Talk-it] domanda 4: Venezia A: openstreetmap list - italiano talk-it@openstreetmap.org Data: Domenica 28 dicembre 2008, 10:43 On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 4:18 PM, Giovanni Fasano g...@gvf.ve.it wrote: Nei giorni scorsi ho fatto un giretto a Venezia, ovviamente in compagnia del mio fido GPS e tornando a casa mi sono scontrato con un po' di particolarità di questa città: innanzitutto a mio avviso bisognerebbe decidere se le strade di Venezia sono highway = footway o highway = pedestrian direi che nel caso di Venezia sia meglio usare la seconda, vista la definizione che viene data sul wiki... Io metto pedestrian per le strade di 2 o più metri ad uso pedonale. Per sentieri, calle, passaggi pedonali larghi meno di 2 metri metto footway. A Venezia, multo strade importante e meno di 2 metri, non? Credo que per strade di Venezia pedestrian e corretto per quasi tutti. footway per sentieri e par example per passagi a parco? (Mi scusi de mon italiano :) -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [OSM-talk] Edit war on the wiki map features
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 04:49:36PM +0100, Pieren wrote: The feature smoothness has been enabled and disabled 12 times in the past 7 days from the wiki Map Features page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Template:Map_Features:smoothness We should stop the game now. All the people who like the Map Features page should say something about this edit war even if they don't care about smoothness. I really feel disappointed. Agreed. It needs to stop, people need to discuss the issue here instead. Is the feature used? Then, let it stand until discussed. Can the people who enable it and revert it *please* speak up here instead? As for the the database is the fasit, you can use whatever tags you like-opinion, imho it's not so good either. We need to agree on as much as we can, or else it's not a world map anymore, just bits and pieces of separate map initiatives, all meddled together in the DB. (a bit exaggerated, of course). Someone needs to rethink the map features-process, imho, but so far I have not much better proposals myself... Reduntant tags and confusion gains noone in the end. Certainly not the task of creading a free map of the world. This is why we need Map_features-page. And without it, it would be pretty much impossible to join the project at all, it would just be too hard to gain an understanding on how to tag. -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] non-operational/closed amenities
Uh... so you want amenity=old_pub, amenity=old_restaurant etc. too? better with a specialized tag that applies to all... Rendering proposal: The same as the real one but with a black cross-over? - Vegard On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 11:02:41AM +, Shaun McDonald wrote: amenity=old_fuel, so that it isn't confused with other currently operating fuel stations. Shaun On 19 Nov 2008, at 01:07, maning sambale wrote: Hi, I just passed by a gas station near my office that's been closed. The structure is still there and not being demolished. The gas station has been operating for a very long time and it became an important landmark in the area. Any suggested tag I should add? cheers, maning -- |-|--| | __.-._ |Ohhh. Great warrior. Wars not make one great. -Yoda | | '-._7' |Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden| | /'.-c |Linux registered user #402901, http://counter.li.org/ | | | /T |http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ | | _)_/L I http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ | |-|--| ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] non-operational/closed amenities
But: old_amenity=fuel is better than amenity=old_fuel :) Both renderer-wise and logically. It's no longer an amenity, is it? :) - Vegard On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 12:11:58PM +0100, vegard wrote: Uh... so you want amenity=old_pub, amenity=old_restaurant etc. too? better with a specialized tag that applies to all... Rendering proposal: The same as the real one but with a black cross-over? - Vegard On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 11:02:41AM +, Shaun McDonald wrote: amenity=old_fuel, so that it isn't confused with other currently operating fuel stations. Shaun On 19 Nov 2008, at 01:07, maning sambale wrote: Hi, I just passed by a gas station near my office that's been closed. The structure is still there and not being demolished. The gas station has been operating for a very long time and it became an important landmark in the area. Any suggested tag I should add? cheers, maning -- |-|--| | __.-._ |Ohhh. Great warrior. Wars not make one great. -Yoda | | '-._7' |Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden| | /'.-c |Linux registered user #402901, http://counter.li.org/ | | | /T |http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ | | _)_/L I http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ | |-|--| ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] POI layer for [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 11:34:30AM +0100, Patrick Kilian wrote: Hi all, in the last couple if days the discussion of a POI layer appeared again. With the new server we should have enough disk space to store such a layer and I'm willing to resurrect the old stylesheets / create new stylesheets for that layer. But since I'm not scratching my own itch here I have a problem: What do we want that layer to be? At *least* the most important points. I missed the town hall and police station the other day, when emailing with a person from the city council about rights to their air photos. He was a bit disappointed that cafes and restaurants were there, but not the official buildings :) Do we want something like town hall, pharmacy, pub and ATM on it. The VIPs (very important points) so to speak? Or do we want every point like feature which is not currently rendered? Like gate, speed trap and so on? Hmm. Ideally, maybe every point on the highest zoom? How much would that be? Probably a lot some places, not so much at other places... I'd really appreciate feedback on this topic. Either here, or the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list or in IRC. If I don't receive any feedback, I'm going to assume that I have to find a better use for my time. The online th and mapnik layers are the showcases for OSM for outsiders. The one thing that can impress people, is the level of detail we get. So I say it's good to have a layer with as much detail as possible. -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] gpx tool advice needed
On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 03:36:00PM +, Rory McCann wrote: gpsbabel -i mybiggpxfile.gpx -f gpx -x track,name=mytrack -o mytrack.gpx -F gpx You have reversed some options. -i gpx -f mybiggpxfile.gpx -o gpx -F mytrack.gpx - Vegard -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] data plucked from who-knows-where?
On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 08:18:21PM +0100, Juan Lucas Dominguez Rubio wrote: I agree with Etienne. Assuming that zone was blank, I think that user has done a great job. The day will come when we will get rid of all these gps talibans Well. There's nothing wrong with mapping rough data, *as long as it's clearly labeled so*. But looking at something that you think is mapped well, it would be rather good to know that here is something that could use correcting... Just my two cents. We should encourage everyone to make sure data is correct, and clearly label things that needs fixing. -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] barrier=gate, run a script?
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 12:11:21AM +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: If I put my mind to it, I could easily muster enough OSMers I know personally to turn over the highway=gate vote next month, just for the fun of it. That should demonstrate to you how little weight the process carries. So I'd rather not be too fast with implementing the results of a vote. There. We agree! Neither I think we need to be very fast with it. But that doesn't mean we should start thinking about it, and thinking about how to handle such things. This could also include improving the voting process. It's just a bit silly to encourage keeping of highway=gate when we've just voted on barrier=gate. Who's we? *I* have not voted. There are more than 2.000 different people who have used highway=gate. How many people have voted to replace it with something else, and do you really think this is enough? Well. This is actually a good example of a quite obvious change. Imho. A gate is not a highway, it's abarrier! But I realize there are more complex and disputed changes. And btw - I didn't vote either, but I would have, had the voting process been more available :) (I know of it, I just don't filter it out from rest and participate...) -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] barrier=gate, run a script?
On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 02:34:39PM -0400, Matthias Julius wrote: I also think it is confusing if two equivalent tags are recommended for the same thing. If by whatever process it is determined that a new wah of tagging gates is recommended the old tag should point to the new one with the indication that the recommendation has changed. I agree. this democracy and meritocracy thing is good for something, but for the map to be really useful as a *world* map and not separated islands, people need to understand that agreeing on tags are good. That said, I have nothing against people using different tags for things not decided yet, but harmonizing and deciding on a common scheme *should* be a goal for everyone. We have no mechanism to divide good from bad ideas. If you start putting your ideas about what you think is good and should be used on Map Features, then I will start putting mine on there as well, and everyone else. That's why we don't want to go down this road. (And before anyone asks, a vote in which 0.01% of mappers participate does not elevate one idea about what is good above hundreds of others.) I agree with you here, but voting seems to be the current practice. I always at least discuss on talk@ or on IRC if I'm a little in doubt. I'll willingly admit that my ideas are not always best either, and if someone has already thought of something better, we're all better off in the long run. This do as you like, we're not deciding anything here is really too much touted :) Let's call them recommendations, and let us call the deprecated tags deprecated, when there's actually been voting going on! Noone should be offended by that. -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] barrier=gate, run a script?
On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 10:11:14PM +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, vegard wrote: I agree. this democracy and meritocracy thing is good for something, but for the map to be really useful as a *world* map and not separated islands, Is it really so important for the map to look the same in Chile and in China? Well. You have to remember that rendering is not all, and if you *actually* want to render all of the world, then you'll want to support the tags used. It's just a bit silly to encourage keeping of highway=gate when we've just voted on barrier=gate. Ok, we should and can not forbid it. But we can call it deprecated, and encourage the switch. IMNSO, -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tiger 2007 Data
On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 10:54:55AM -0700, Dave Hansen wrote: Has anyone looked at importing the TIGER 2007 data yet? I was going to start coding up the conversion utilities to get started. It appears that this shapefile format may have existing OSM converters out there. Anyone want to admit to having one? ;) I see it like this: What could be very useful to have, is a mapping between tiger data (old set) and OSM data. It could be to late for this round, but an external_id:tiger = that you'd *never* remove, is a good thing. That'll help when updating. Then you'll need to to a diff between the old data and the new data, and find out which ID's are candidates for updating. Then you could do a diff between old and OSM for those IDs. Anything that's not touched in OSM -- update. Anything else, I'm sure you'll have to do more or less manually, but I'm sure you could automatize bits of it - like road classification changes, name changes etc. This is my rough proposal for how to handle large chunks of external data. -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tiger 2007 Data
On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 12:27:27PM -0700, Dave Hansen wrote: On Mon, 2008-10-20 at 09:43 +0200, vegard wrote: I see it like this: What could be very useful to have, is a mapping between tiger data (old set) and OSM data. It could be to late for this round, but an external_id:tiger = that you'd *never* remove, is a good thing. That'll help when updating. Umm. We have this. It's called a tlid, and it's already in the data set. When TIGER objects got combined into a single OSM object, I preserved this tag. I *also* submitted patches to JOSM to preserve this tag when merging points and ways. Good! I swear, I did mean to write you might already have this, but Well, rest of conversion depends: Is there a (relatively) easy way to do a diff between the old set and the new set? It'd be good to know what is the changes introduced by the new set. The size/amount of those changes will decide the strategy for rest, no? -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yet another street number scheme
On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 05:17:43PM +0100, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: However, houses are not part of the road network, so the house number node should not be part of the highway, that would be tagging for the Garmin or whatever. The house numbers need to go on the houses (or the object representing them). But house-numbers are *related* to a way = relations ? -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Pedestrians on cycleways
On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 11:53:11AM +0200, sylvain letuffe wrote: This seems to reflect the situation in Germany. However, in Belgium and The Netherlands, the default is that pedestrians are allowed on cycle tracks. I think that what you need is not a cycleway anymore, because pedestrian are allowed. Luckyly, the higwhay=path is made for that Except that it doesn't seem like that. You might believe so, but *noone* renders a plain highway=path - which means noone is gonna use it. -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] More vandalism
On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 11:34:34PM +0100, Richard Fairhurst wrote: Nic Roets wrote: Or change potlatch so that it will not delete or modify objects last edited by other users. Then it would at least be easy to delete anything they did. Tell you what, let's completely ban all editors - that'll eliminate the risk of vandalism. Like it or not, potlach *is* the source of quite a bit of accidental vandalism. It's easy to use for beginners, but they will *not* understand the implications of what they are doing. The sanbox helped a lot, but obviously not enough. I believe you need some sort of online buffer for potlach and a prominent submit button that everyone understand the implications on. Maybe even with a warning-page that you need to go through unless you have gone to your preferences box to turn it off. Yes, it's gonna be a bit annoying to new users. But not nearly as annoying as having to clean up hard-worked map data. -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] More vandalism
On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 11:57:08PM +0100, Richard Fairhurst wrote: While I'm here I might as well say something about the lack of a Save button. I'm not violently against the concept: I think unconvinced is perhaps the best way to describe my opinion. There are two big issues with it. One is that for edit sessions lasting more than a couple of seconds, there has to be conflict management. If you're a JOSM user, then you are de facto a clued-up, computer-savvy type, so conflict management doesn't worry you. But if you are a newbie - maybe even a schoolkid - trying just to edit your local area, then being presented with The following conflicts were detected. Accept/Resolve/Revert? will just utterly confuse you, and you'll click the wrong thing and cause more errors. Or maybe just close Potlatch and never return to OSM. Well. I'm a bit unconvinced that we need to attract everyone, even these people :) And as for schoolkids - I think even schoolkids can learn JOSM. Heck, I even have example to prove it: A 9 year old nephew that's recently started doing his own tagging in JOSM :) Of course, his father looks over the things he's done from time to time... Personally, *I* don't dare using Potlach for the lack of a save button. Yes, I'll do it for the quick change (moving a single node, changing a property) that I see while looking at the map, but not for more things. I just find it too dangerous. The second is that, in JOSM, your canvas is usually quite small - i.e. you have downloaded a particular area and are working on that exclusively. In Potlatch, because you can pan around an infinite map, your canvas may be much bigger. You may have traced a 600km cycle route (I know, I've done that! :) ) in one session. Yet you can't zoom out to see the whole thing, because requesting a 600km bounding box would break both the server and the browser. So you would be clicking Save to upload changes that you can't actually see or review, and that - in my opinion - defeats the point of it. Point taken. What worries me most, because I've seen it before, is that people are seizing on the first thing they don't like, and thinking that's the reason why there are bad edits. People used to criticise Potlatch for causing bad edits because there was no 'revert' feature, so I added a revert feature (the H key). Then they criticised Potlatch for causing bad edits because there was no 'test' mode, so I added a test mode. Then they criticised Potlatch because there was no 'splash screen' explaining things, so I added a splash screen. Now they criticise Potlatch because there's no compulsory 'save' button. Well. Yes. We critize. Based on what we see people actually manage to do despite these safety measures...Granted, I thought the test mode would help *much* more. And it helped, but not enough. Revert-button is great, but you'll have to know that you need to revert and not just quit the browser... the bad edits. The bad edits are principally because these guys are newbies. Newbies make mistakes. (Experienced users don't make mistakes with Potlatch just because it has no Save button.) *Ehem* - I don't trust myself not to :) Enough to not daring to use it for more advanced work. And in a week's time, someone would be saying Potlatch must be banned unless it has a pony (or something) and there'd be a lot of postings saying yes, the reason there are all these bad edits is BECAUSE POTLATCH HAS NO PONY. And so, a few weeks later, Potlatch would get a pony, which would make it even harder to use (ponies are quite stubborn, you know) and require newbies to learn even more, and then someone would decide on another reason for the bad edits... and so on. You are right, this is an endless task. But it's a necessary task. Bad edits are annoying as hell to the people who worked hard with them in the first time. Tools should be as foolproof as possible. And I would not too afraid to scare away someone by adding a submit button and conflict management, done wisely it need not be too annoying. But I'm no flash programmer :) And no, I don't want to ban potlach. But it needs to do more to stop the accidental bad edits :) Other than these, I have some suggestions for minor improvements that might help against some of this: What about... 1) Not allowing to merge things with different properties (unless one of them was non-tagged). 2) Not allowing to drag non-nodes so easily? Could be annoying, granted, but it's actually very seldom you need to? 3) Make it harder to delete things? Not allowing to delete something you didn't create (or owned at the start of the session) ? Potlach is obviously popular, and I recognize that we get lots of useful contribution through it too. But I do understand the rage of people who experience bad edits through it. -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk
Re: [OSM-talk] vandolism on OSM
On Fri, Oct 03, 2008 at 02:51:01AM -0700, Nicholas Vetrovec wrote: Check out this Chicago area totally messed up by user: Mekhyl http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=41.9626lon=-87.8045zoom=14layers=0B00FTF What to do about this problem?? Reversing these actual changes, I'm sure someone can dig into. But we'll need a more permanent measure against vandalism. Something that'll make it easy to reverse things. An idea I've had, is to add revised-tags to OSM data. Which means that 1) You can choose to check out only the stable map, or 2) You can choose the development version. But this isn't at all gonna be easy, we need to devise a plan to make it as little hassle as possible to review OSM data and put a quality stamp on it, and to diff the area between the last revised tag and what exists today, see if the changes looks good, and then just approve it. And yes: I know - I should sit down and code it :) This *is* a proposal, and I'm no coder. And I also know that a fair amount of people will disagree, but unless we put up a way to avoid random vandalism to pollute the production set of data, noone is gonna dare use our data to anything except small things that can be manually verified. -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Loading img file onto Garmin 60 CSx
On Fri, Oct 03, 2008 at 08:04:19PM +, David Ebling wrote: I'm having trouble loading a map file onto a Garmin 60CSx for a relative. I've made a file using mkgmap, and loaded it onto the memory card in a folder called Garmin and placing it into it using a card reader. I put the card into the GPS, but it doesn't seem to recognise it as a map. I tried using the USB mass storage mode, and could see the map file in the Garmin file, as it should be according to http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Mkgmap#Installing Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? For people to debug, you need to: 1) Provide the OSM data you worked from. 2) Provide the resulting .IMG-file. 3) Provide the exact commands and steps to make/install it. I have a 60Csx and regularly make Garmin maps from OSM-data that I use. -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM basemap on bikemap.net (runmap.net and inlinemap.net)
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 05:32:02AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Just got this from a contact in Minneapolis. Nice to see OSM used in a mashup. [quoting] In case you didn't know about this, a site we're using to map custom routes on for the Bike2Benefits.org program allows you to view the OSM map as a base layer. Here's an example: http://www.bikemap.net/#lt=44.9759ln=-93.2166z=14t=4 Fair enough. But the copyright info is sort of strange? Powered by google, OpenStreetmap. Map data (c) 2008 Tele Atlas ? -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mailing list behavior
On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 07:59:17AM +0100, Shaun McDonald wrote: Take a look at http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html and stop bickering about the way you have to reply to the mailing list. My mailer, mutt, has a List-reply that does *exactly* what I want, i.e. it finds the talk@openstreetmap.org adress from List-Id or such. But, this isn't really the point: I'm *still* in favour of adding reply-to to the list. It might be technical wrong, but: Getting outlook and other proprietary mailers to behave is a lost battle, there are fights more worthwhile to fight :) Such as the fight for free map-data ;-) So even though it doesn't bother me personally, the way it is no, I say that the above document is outdated - an email-list (especially one like talk) *is* a forum, and replys should per default go to the list. Anyone not wanting to send to the list, will have the info to do that anyways. And for the only semi-technical argument that you break something that can't be repaired: I have *never* ever placed a reply-to to something other than my from-adress, and expected it to work, without *also* stating explicitly at the end of the mail. And I rather make the from-header be the adress I want replys to, if I want to do it permanently. So I say: Let's be pragmatic and do what most people feel is the most logical thing. And most people will *not* have sensible mailers. -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] amenity=vending_machine AND amenity=post_box: what about?
On Tue, Sep 02, 2008 at 03:30:26PM -0400, Adam Schreiber wrote: On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Pierre-André Jacquod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Currently, I have never seen a stamp vending machine without its post box. That is why I intended to mark these with something like: amenity=post_box vending_machine=yes Is there a (strange:-) country where both are disconnected? Here in the States, very rarely does an outdoor post box have a stamp vending machine attached. However, your proposal of adding vending_machine=yes makes sense especially if you added a type=postage or stamps tag. There will be a lot of such cases of things with dual use. I did send a mail about it a few days ago. There's: shop=supermarket with amenity=post_office shop=supermarket with amenity=pharmacy amenity=bank with amenity=atm (this is already made a special case for) and I'm sure the list is endless. I feel we need a generalized solution, and then come up with rendering as needed for the most used combinations? -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] sac_scale calibration?
As an aspiring mountain-hiking-OSMer, I've been trying to get the hang of sac_scale. I know that the typical terrain and what's considered difficult can vary *a lot* depending, on the typical terrain around. Here in Bergen, Norway, we have a lot of mountains. Some steep, and some not-so-steep. But even the ones reachable from the city center can be demanding enough if you have no mountain-experience whatsoever. For reference, http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Approved_features/Hiking is the approved features... What I find a little difficult, is the border between hiking, mountain_hiking and demanding_mountain_hiking. I guess the boundary to the alpine classes are more defined - that's when it starts to become impossible to get upwards and not fall down unless you also use your hands, in my book :) I have a few pictures, unfortunately they turned out a little difficult to see the steepness of them. Too few references. But, http://www.flickr.com/photos/vegard_engen/2810086485/ is taken downwards. About 3-4 meters to the bottom, so I guess you'd hardly die if you slid and fell, but you could break a leg. But still, the path is rocky and you have to be careful, and some people would definitely need to use their hands for balance - as stated on the page. But there's no ropes etc. These ones, hiking or mountain-hiking? http://www.flickr.com/photos/vegard_engen/2810112943/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/vegard_engen/2810929816/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/vegard_engen/2810080401/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/vegard_engen/2810114907/ And would people tag only the difficult stretches as the most difficult classification, or would it be ok to do whole stretches (i.e. between destinations/junctions of paths) as single classification. I guess that a lot of this *is* actually up to me, but I'm a strong supporter of actually agreeing on this as long as we are actually editing the same map, sort of :) All input and opinions (and the rest in the series: http://www.flickr.com/photos/vegard_engen/tags/osm/) is welcome :) -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] superways as relations ?
On Wed, Aug 06, 2008 at 11:20:32AM +0200, Stefan Neufeind wrote: This leads me to another thought: How do editors handle cases where a way is member of a relation and you split it? Would make sense to add both parts to the relation imho. Does somebody know how editors handle that currently? Well, yes and no. One type of relation is for example turn restrictions. It can have exactly two ways, I guess, one from and one to-way. And regardless, it doesn't make much sense having a turn-restriction between two ways that don't connect :) I guess there are a lot of cases where it's not necessarily true. Someone who knows the implementation will have to tell how it's handled today, though. -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] superways as relations ?
For naming of streets in cities, where properties change very often and you have to make many small ways, it sometimes gets annoying that the name is duplicated. I was wondering: How good/easy would it be to make a superway-relation to fix that? I.e. group several ways for labeling-intentions? I'm no expert on the inner workings in either of the renderers, but to me it sounds like a quick fix to a small annoyance. If someone that knows the renderers could either agree or disagree, I'd be happy anyways (well, obviously happier if they agree :) -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] superways as relations ?
On Mon, Aug 04, 2008 at 11:07:24AM -, m*sh wrote: On Mon, August 4, 2008 10:14, vegard wrote: For naming of streets in cities, where properties change very often and you have to make many small ways, it sometimes gets annoying that the name is duplicated. I was wondering: How good/easy would it be to make a superway-relation to fix that? I.e. group several ways for labeling-intentions? I'm no expert on the inner workings in either of the renderers, but to me it sounds like a quick fix to a small annoyance. If someone that knows the renderers could either agree or disagree, I'd be happy anyways (well, obviously happier if they agree :) Actually there is a 'mantra' on a german mailing list stating that, we are not tagging for the renderer I agree. We're not tagging for the renderer. At least, we're not tagging it *wrongly* for the renderer. But in practise, we might need to give the renderer some hints with some extra tagging. Of that, I personally am a little more inclined to accept that. But others might agree/disagree with me. I think adding a relation like that to help the renderer does in no way destroy the data model. But matter of factly a similar idea crosses my mind from time to time. Proposing a tag-combination: label=yes name = Mainstreet (e.g.) displayzoom = 12 label = yes : This would mean that the node has no physical representation name = 'foo': Label to be displayed displayzoom = nn : the zoomfactor (or higher) that will result in displaying the label at a given zoomrate. 'Labelling' like this could also help when there are many labels/captions to be displayed in a given area and avoid interference - IMHO Hmm. Well. I'm more inclined to add an importance-qualifier to a label, and let the renderer sort out how much it can add :) -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] osm talk at local LUG
On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:09:22AM +0100, Steve Hill wrote: On Tue, 10 Jun 2008, Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: From my experience you get lots of questions so best keep the presentation simple and allow enough time to answer stuff. You might also find you get questions regarding the free aspect of the project and the licence. Yes, be prepared for the usual why not just use Google? questions. I did a short lightning talk on OSM at my local LUG a few months ago and being able to cite uses of the data other than the plain slippymap was quite good (such as the Welsh language version (as I am in Wales :), the cyclemap, the pistemap, the ability to use the data for satnav projects, etc.). The level of interest seemed quite high at the time, but sadly I don't think we've got any new mappers from that group. :( Combining the talk with a mapping party (it doesn't need to be large or widely advertised, could be just internal) would be a good strategy. Well, at least it did work in our case :) We got several new mappers in my town, and we got most of the city center mapped during that saturday. We had the talk on a thursday, with a mapping party the following saturday. OSM has a pretty steep learning curve - not as much on the technical aspects as in good choices for tags on different types of ways, good strategies, etc. Being able to do that together with more experienced mappers the first time is so much easier than trying to find out how to do it yourself. The why not just use google will of course be asked, but in a LUG, you should at least get a few people who understand the licensing concepts. -- - Vegard Engen, member of the first RFC1149 implementation team. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
