Re: [talk-ph] [SPAM] Re: Philippine multilingual place names (English/native language)

[Rally de Leon]

name=* is for "common name". It should reflect what is normally seen
on signboards (not entirely as we still have good practice in naming
conventions).

As pointed out by Roger, name prefixes/suffixes (which are part of the
default name values) are generally and majorly written in English in
PH. We still use Street, Avenue, Highway, Boulevard, Rotonda,
Expressway, School, Day Care Center, Health Center, Fire Station,
Boundary, etc etc.

Since name=* is also the "default name" shown by simple map apps (with
no custom rendering), localizing default name values (to FIlipino) can
work to our disadvantage during disasters ...if outside-emergency
responders would still "Google Search" or need an "online language
translator".

Take for example (by looking at Japan/Korea/China OSM Map): if a major
disaster happen there now, imagine yourselves as an outsider, mapping
for, or volunteering to help with the aid of an online map or using a
downloadable offline gps map; is it way harder for non-techie
individual to engage them (eg. Searching keywords for a particular
feature can be a pain -- if you still have to figure out the local
dialect and/or character-symbols.

It is good that Japan, Korea and alikes are technologically-capable of
helping themselves (and won't concern much with the worries of
outsiders not understanding them); because having a common local
language worked for them -- actually made them stronger as a nation.
Localizing default name-labels is an enabler for citizens of these
non-English speaking countries - to disseminate and consume
information efficiently, without a need for an English translator.

But for us who still needs outside help from time to time with
technical & financial aids, or attracting tourists. Introducing
"language-barrier" on maps becomes a dis-abler. Some Filipino words in
fact need translation even to those locals from NCR/Region 4.

Like it or not, English is/was already 'forced on us' through our
education systems; or by business / social pressure to use
technologies with english-default menu system. My impression is, only
a few would like to use Filipino menu-system even if it's available on
devices... well, I feel the same with a general-purpose maps. Besides,
a good number Filipino words are not character-efficient (too long to
write) for labeling purposes on maps + or needs a "glossary" to
understand. :-)

So in terms of naming-convention, I still like to see and use a more
universally readable English label (unless a particular local name
proves more popular) as OSM's default name. That (English) advantage
on naming priorities, has a slight edge over the noble effort for
heritage-preservation (language) advocacy using "default maps" as a
medium. We can always customize maps at the moment

If in the future perhaps, when the Philippines seemingly decides,
(trending at least 40%) in use of local dialects on signboards, then
we may take it as a sign to reconsider to "localize" the default
values for "name="; English will be secondary using name:en=*  --- but
only until then (that's just my opinion).

No issues with adding other local language on name:xx=*

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Re: [talk-ph] OSMPH chatroom

[Rally de Leon]

Eugene,
You have a direct invite via email (Nov 27). Maybe that is causing the
problem. I revoked it just now and sent a new one.


On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 9:01 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar 
wrote:

> Dear Rally,
>
> It seems I cannot invite myself?
>
> ~Eugene
>
> On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Rally de Leon  wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I would like to invite you to OSMPH chatroom osmph.slack.com
>> This is meant to replace our earlier experimental Discord.
>>
>> It is open to public and you can invite yourself using your email at:
>> http://is.gd/osmphchat
>>
>> How is this different?
>>
>> It is currently (relatively) unstructured - like we don't know what it is
>> yet or what it will be.
>>
>> It can become your local quick source mapping tips and Q&A. Easily search
>> for previous discussions, since it is searchable. It is linked to our osmph
>> event's google calendar. It has an anonymous channel, etc.
>>
>> Here, it's like having many small cubicles for small talks about any
>> particular mapping interests. Shy and low-profile members can
>> simultaneously talk and ask questions freely among their same-interest
>> sub-groups in separate channels, without worrying about interrupting any
>> hotter or more important issues on the general discussion table.
>>
>> Discuss wider range of topics from seemingly irrelevant to newbie's
>> frequently ask questions, to more technical discourse, do skill-sharing,
>> share an idea, or plan workshops and mapping parties, or have simple
>> chit-chats.
>>
>> Your guidelines:
>> Post in English, Filipino or Taglish, as long as you don't use a lot of
>> "po" and "opo," (kasi nakaka-feeling matanda "poh" yan sa ilang tao dito)
>> 😀
>>
>> The other suggested chatroom rule is simple: "don't be a jerk." Orayt? ;-)
>>
>> BTW, you can also introduce some words from local dialect in the interest
>> of teaching the community some terminologies you are accustomed with, to
>> understand local cultures, to bridge the communications gaps, to improve
>> objects/words translations, all that may be relevant to mapping.
>>
>> We are inclusive. Let us learn from you.
>>
>> Let's see how it goes. See you there.
>>
>> Rally :-)
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
>>
>>
>
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Re: [talk-ph] POI names with placenames

[Rally de Leon]

Hi Terzeus,
Are you referring to (Maysilo)?
I think it's a branch name. It's better to remove it from the name,
and add tag branch=Maysilo

same rule applies to shop=convenience (like 7-Eleven),
amenity=fast_food, amenity=pharmacy, and amenity=fuel
where:
  name= (not the official business name)
  branch=
  operator=

On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Terzeus S. Dominguez 
wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA256
>
> Hi everyone! I have a quick question.
>
> While updating the traffic scheme in Maysilo, I came across this node (
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/357730055#map=19/14.57715/121.03504)
> with its placename on the name field. Should the placename stay or be
> removed (or put elsewhere?)
>
> (sorry for the grammar, I think I had too much coffee this afternoon)
>
> Thank you!
>
> - --
> May all beings be happy.
>
> Dominguez, Terzeus S.
> 4 AB Chinese Studies-Social Sciences track, Ateneo de Manila University
>
> PGP key 4096R/0x125A 04B7 4B9F 4836 7311 2ADA 5C14 F729 89F7 8D66
> https://dmgznet.com/pub/tsdominguez-pubkey.asc
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
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[talk-ph] OSMPH chatroom

[Rally de Leon]

Dear all,

I would like to invite you to OSMPH chatroom osmph.slack.com
This is meant to replace our earlier experimental Discord.

It is open to public and you can invite yourself using your email at:
http://is.gd/osmphchat

How is this different?

It is currently (relatively) unstructured - like we don't know what it is
yet or what it will be.

It can become your local quick source mapping tips and Q&A. Easily search
for previous discussions, since it is searchable. It is linked to our osmph
event's google calendar. It has an anonymous channel, etc.

Here, it's like having many small cubicles for small talks about any
particular mapping interests. Shy and low-profile members can
simultaneously talk and ask questions freely among their same-interest
sub-groups in separate channels, without worrying about interrupting any
hotter or more important issues on the general discussion table.

Discuss wider range of topics from seemingly irrelevant to newbie's
frequently ask questions, to more technical discourse, do skill-sharing,
share an idea, or plan workshops and mapping parties, or have simple
chit-chats.

Your guidelines:
Post in English, Filipino or Taglish, as long as you don't use a lot of
"po" and "opo," (kasi nakaka-feeling matanda "poh" yan sa ilang tao dito)
😀

The other suggested chatroom rule is simple: "don't be a jerk." Orayt? ;-)

BTW, you can also introduce some words from local dialect in the interest
of teaching the community some terminologies you are accustomed with, to
understand local cultures, to bridge the communications gaps, to improve
objects/words translations, all that may be relevant to mapping.

We are inclusive. Let us learn from you.

Let's see how it goes. See you there.

Rally :-)
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Re: [talk-ph] Mapping all lanes of a toll plaza

[Rally de Leon]

...in which case, go for the ":lanes" tagging scheme (but it looks
complicated -- too many forking segments). Can we experiment on a wide toll
plaza? let's see how it renders

+1 if it renders the segments nicely, :-) else lets the delay (for later)
and use the original 1 center line approach

besides, putting too many forking lanes (tagged as motorway) on wide toll
plazas may unnecessarily increase the total number of kilometers
(distorting the actual length) of that particular road; although this can
be solved by relations.

On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 10:14 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar 
wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 10:01 AM, Rally de Leon  wrote:
>
>> I prefer one (1) center line for each group or class (less clutter) eg. 1
>> for those prepaid auto-debit lanes, 1 for car/cash, 1 for trucks/PUB; maybe
>> this can help the lane-assist feature in car navigation.
>>
>
> That would mean 9 lines for Cavitex
> 1. Cash (Class 1)
> 2. Exact Toll
> 3. Cash (any class)
> 4. EasyDrive
> 5. E-TAP and EasyDrive
> 6. E-TAP loading and cash
> 7. E-TAP and cash
> 8. Emergency and cash
> 9. Wide vehicles
>
> Theoretically, we can still put information about various toll lanes even
> with just a single center line using the ":lanes" tagging scheme:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lanes
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Mapping all lanes of a toll plaza

[Rally de Leon]

I prefer one (1) center line for each group or class (less clutter) eg. 1
for those prepaid auto-debit lanes, 1 for car/cash, 1 for trucks/PUB; maybe
this can help the lane-assist feature in car navigation.



On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 11:03 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar 
wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Does the community think mapping individual lanes of a toll plaza is best
> practice? See the SLEX Nichols Toll Plaza for an example:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/14.51881/121.02819
>
> Personally, I prefer mapping just the center line of the tollway and just
> adding the lanes=* tag to it. There's also the proposed area:highway=* tag
> (already with rendering support in a 3rd-party map) for mapping the actual
> area of the highway:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/area:highway
>
> ~Eugene
>
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Re: [talk-ph] On importing administrative boundaries

[Rally de Leon]

What about the news (of the nearly completed Cadastral Survey which was
also mentioned in SONA 2015)?
http://www.philstar.com/nation/2015/06/12/1464852/cadastral-survey-phl-land-area-nears-completion
---
which I'm sure is using PRS92 (as required by law)

Plus the open data policy of government? (will this give us inherent right
to import?)

What proactive action can we do as a group, to gain access & extract from
this PRS92 boundary data, then convert to WGS84 and/or carefully translate
boundary-lines manually thru visual inspection/interpretation/validation;
like doing it per boundary-segment (if necessary) to
redraw/correct/remove/improve shapes & lines of those inaccurate GADM
boundaries (eg. in a mapping party project), so that we do away with issues
of importing erroneous data again?


On Tue, Aug 11, 2015 at 8:24 PM, maning sambale 
wrote:

> Part-rant, part personal "manifesto" on importing admin boundaries in the
> Philippines from a mapper who imported provincial boundaries many years
> ago. ;)
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/maning/diary/35568
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> https://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> http://twitter.com/maningsambale
> --
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Address format myths

[Rally de Leon]

thank you for the link :-)

On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 11:48 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar 
wrote:

> The topic of address formats has been discussed on this mailing list a few
> times over the past years. I thought some of you might get a kick out of
> this list of myths about address formats from all over the world:
>
> https://www.mjt.me.uk/posts/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-addresses/
>
> It contains gems like:
> * No buildings are numbered zero.
> * A street name won't include a number.
> * Street names don't recur in the same city.
> * Addresses will be written from most to least specific.
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Data Quality Overview

[Rally de Leon]

Maning,

What does it mean when there's a value on the right column under
"subregion"?
Does it mean there's an administrative boundary for the particular town?
http://osm.hlidskjalf.is/settlements.php?idc=1®ion=Rizal&sub=&p=town

Rally

On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 7:05 PM, maning sambale 
wrote:

> This is a nice OSM data quality overview tool: http://osm.hlidskjalf.is/
> I asked the developer to add the Philippines [0].  I have a couple of
> ideas on using this for remote mapping, more on that later.  For an
> overview of the tool, here's the post [1].
>
>
> [0] http://osm.hlidskjalf.is/settlements.php?idc=1
> [1] http://joi.betra.is/?p=1769
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> https://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> http://twitter.com/maningsambale
> --
>
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Re: [talk-ph] best practice for village admin_centre relations

[Rally de Leon]

Erwin,
Confused: I thought all along that the subject about the
admin-polygon-relation's center (whatever that means). :-) That normally,
in the absence of a member 'admin_centre' node in the relation, the
name-TEXT of that administrative polygon is rendered in its geometric
center.

BUT, assigning a node as the admin_centre of an administrative_relation,
will for some reason render the TEXT value at the assigned 'location' of
said node. Which in most cases happens to be the  place_name. Isn't that
the idea of Maning's question? h

What's the difference if there's any? can you explain? (with example please
- yung pang elementary) for the benefit of the likes of me who are too lazy
to read the manual, hehe

Rally

On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 2:46 PM, Erwin Olario  wrote:

>
> Rally, Maning is asking about the administrative centres, and that would
> mean government authorities in charge of administration. They are not meant
> to represent the [geographic] "center of the village" which isn't something
> we normally map.
>
> As for place=village nodes, and like I wrote earlier, I put them in the
> commons (e.g. plaza, local park, etc.).
>
> Erwin
>
>
>
> *Erwin Olario*
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> » email: erwin@ *n**gnu**IT**y**.**net*
> <http://ngnuity.net/> | gov...@gmail.com
> » mobile: (PHL): +63 908 817 2013
> » OpenPGP key: 3A93D56B | 5D42 7CCB 8827 9046 1ACB 0B94 63A4 81CE 3A93
> D56B
>
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 2:35 PM, Rally de Leon  wrote:
>
>> Question:
>> - What's the best practice for adding admin_centre nodes to the village
>> boundary relation? Should it be the barangay hall (amenity=townhall)
>> or the place=village node?
>>
>> 
>> For place nodes, a good practice IMHO is putting said node (eg.
>> place=village)
>> somewhere NEAR but NOT ON an "object or group of objects" which
>> represents the center of the village, typically any of the following:
>>   -barangay hall
>>   -village plaza (eg. where there's a multipurpose hall or basketball
>> court)
>>   -the center of traditional grid-street (the oldest populated area of
>> the place)
>>
>> My interpretation of "somewhere near" is around 100-150 meters away;
>> on a not-so-important space (eg. a vacant area or generic community)
>> in the vicinity, where there are no other place nodes, or important
>> landmarks
>> like a park or institution.
>>
>> 1st Reason:
>> The 'place node' is represented by a TEXT on the map.
>> -a rendered TEXT always cover the lines and polygons under it. Thus,
>> putting a place_node very close to another object (eg. important
>> building),
>> will essentially make that building disappear (information visibility is
>> not optimized).
>> Said buildings  will only appear when you zoom-in on a digital map.
>> But you cannot zoom-in on a paper map (2-D). So I thought, the best
>> practice
>> is to move it just enough not to cover important objects (part of the
>> art).
>> (until such time we have an algorithm to do that automatically)
>>
>> 2nd Reason:
>> Putting a place node inside a polygon with a large footprint the size of
>> a neighborhood, like an institutional_polygon or a park; will not just
>> potentially cover the 'name' of institution or park, but add unintended
>> confusion or misrepresentation of the polygon.
>> eg. If you put a place_node of Ermita inside Rizal Park's valencia
>> circle,
>> a tourist who wants to go to the heart of Ermita, ends up in Luneta
>> (which is technically Ermita) - but was not probably his/her intention
>>
>> 3rd Reason:
>> There are some LGU's (municipal and barangays) which relocated (or
>> isolated)
>> their new townhalls away from the village or town centers.
>>
>> Putting a place_node on top or near an isolated townhall (away from
>> populated center)
>> is not always representative of the general location of the village or
>> the town.
>> (this is a dilemna for Mamasapano, where townhall is located near the
>> boundary)
>>
>> ---
>> I'm voting +1 for:
>> place=village as admin_centre, provided it's located NEAR not ON the
>> object (amenity=townhall)
>>
>> Cheer,
>> Rally
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [talk-ph] best practice for village admin_centre relations

[Rally de Leon]

Question:
- What's the best practice for adding admin_centre nodes to the village
boundary relation? Should it be the barangay hall (amenity=townhall)
or the place=village node?


For place nodes, a good practice IMHO is putting said node (eg.
place=village)
somewhere NEAR but NOT ON an "object or group of objects" which
represents the center of the village, typically any of the following:
  -barangay hall
  -village plaza (eg. where there's a multipurpose hall or basketball
court)
  -the center of traditional grid-street (the oldest populated area of the
place)

My interpretation of "somewhere near" is around 100-150 meters away;
on a not-so-important space (eg. a vacant area or generic community)
in the vicinity, where there are no other place nodes, or important
landmarks
like a park or institution.

1st Reason:
The 'place node' is represented by a TEXT on the map.
-a rendered TEXT always cover the lines and polygons under it. Thus,
putting a place_node very close to another object (eg. important building),
will essentially make that building disappear (information visibility is
not optimized).
Said buildings  will only appear when you zoom-in on a digital map.
But you cannot zoom-in on a paper map (2-D). So I thought, the best
practice
is to move it just enough not to cover important objects (part of the art).
(until such time we have an algorithm to do that automatically)

2nd Reason:
Putting a place node inside a polygon with a large footprint the size of
a neighborhood, like an institutional_polygon or a park; will not just
potentially cover the 'name' of institution or park, but add unintended
confusion or misrepresentation of the polygon.
eg. If you put a place_node of Ermita inside Rizal Park's valencia circle,
a tourist who wants to go to the heart of Ermita, ends up in Luneta
(which is technically Ermita) - but was not probably his/her intention

3rd Reason:
There are some LGU's (municipal and barangays) which relocated (or
isolated)
their new townhalls away from the village or town centers.

Putting a place_node on top or near an isolated townhall (away from
populated center)
is not always representative of the general location of the village or the
town.
(this is a dilemna for Mamasapano, where townhall is located near the
boundary)

---
I'm voting +1 for:
place=village as admin_centre, provided it's located NEAR not ON the object
(amenity=townhall)

Cheer,
Rally
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Re: [talk-ph] How Sausages are Made

[Rally de Leon]

I really enjoyed this video too. Very good observations, providing many
good points for reflections for all of us volunteers playing a part of a
worldwide mapping community -- with our own opinions, with our
personal/cultural biases, with our limited vision of how our (or their)
world should look like, or be called like..., etc.

Jochen Toft gave an unbiased observation of how OSM (has so far) worked,
and not an opinion of how it should suppose to work. How despite the chaos
and differences of opinions, OSM always sort things out by itself over
time.

It really shows how "our" OpenStreetMap is continuously being made; just
like a sausage made from so many ingredients from so many undesirable
animal-parts, even those you don't (and won't) really eat in their original
form -- really a mix of everything. And in the end, it still goes well with
ketchup + mustard sauce, and beer. :-)


On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 9:26 PM, Erwin Olario  wrote:

> @rally
> The video mentions a tag you might love: bridge:name
>
> *Erwin Olario*
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> » email: erwin@ *n**gnu**IT**y**.**net*
>  | gov...@gmail.com
> » mobile: (PHL): +63 908 817 2013
> » OpenPGP key: 3A93D56B | 5D42 7CCB 8827 9046 1ACB 0B94 63A4 81CE 3A93
> D56B
>
> On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 9:24 PM, Erwin Olario  wrote:
>
>> One of the SOTM-US presentations I enjoyed watching.
>> https://youtu.be/_2L5wzv8DHw
>>
>> It isn't what you think it is. :)
>>
>>
>> *Erwin Olario*
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> » email: erwin@ *n**gnu**IT**y**.**net*
>>  | gov...@gmail.com
>> » mobile: (PHL): +63 908 817 2013
>> » OpenPGP key: 3A93D56B | 5D42 7CCB 8827 9046 1ACB 0B94 63A4 81CE 3A93
>> D56B
>>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: [talk-ph] mamasapano road not rendering in default layer

[Rally de Leon]

Weird:
I added a node in the middle of the invisible road, then refresh, nothing
happened.

Then added 2 more nodes, refreshed, got partial road rendering.

Added 2 more nodes, refreshed, got more partial rendering.

I also noticed the creek and nearby residential roads were also invisible.
creek:   http://osm.org/go/4sHQ30CsS?m=
missing local roads:   http://osm.org/go/4sHQ3HBqR--?m=


On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 4:00 PM, maning sambale 
wrote:

> Kind of weird:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/326328233#map=15/6.9029/124.5221
> All other renderers (mapquest, cycle, transport and humanitarian) is OK
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> --
>
> ___
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> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
>
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Re: [talk-ph] One-way roads in Baguio this Holy Week

[Rally de Leon]

Here's the detail of one-way traffice scheme from
http://www.topgear.com.ph/news/motoring-news/dpwh-to-enforce-one-way-traffic-on-kennon-road-from-march-31-to-april-3

"from* 12:01 am of March 31* to* 12:01am of April 3*, the one-way traffic
scheme on Kennon Road will be implemented for the exclusive benefit of
those going up to Baguio, specifically from the Camp 1 toll gate in Tuba,
Benguet, up to the Camp 7 police station in Baguio City.

In consideration of the residents who live along the route,* special passes
*will be issued that will allow them to take advantage of the window times
of *11am-12 noon* and *5pm-6pm* to go down Kennon Road.

Billboards informing motorists of the one-way scheme have reportedly been
put up at strategic locations from Saytan in Rosario to Baguio City. To
ensure safe travel while the one-way scheme is in effect, flagmen will be
assigned *every 500m* from Camp 1 to Camp 7 to alert motorists to the
two-way traffic during said window times. Flyers will also be distributed
to motorists entering Camp 1 during the window times to warn them of the
two-way traffic. However, the times indicated on the flyers is from 11am to
1pm and 5 pm to 7 pm, with the additional one hour being provided to give
sufficient time for the last vehicle passing through the Camp 7 police
station to exit the Camp 1 toll gate."

On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 4:46 AM, Ervin Malicdem  wrote:

> http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/29861833
>
> Ervin M.
> *Schadow1 Expeditions* - A Filipino must not be a stranger to his own
> motherland.
> http://www.s1expeditions.com
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 5:29 PM, Ervin Malicdem 
> wrote:
>
>> Precisely, Rally.
>>
>> However, this is with the intention to provide a currently accurate
>> routing for navigation purposes to which primarily is to be used by drivers
>> more likely coming from outside Baguio albeit, tourists on this long
>> weekend.
>> This would help on planning the trip and fuel efficiency even before you
>> even get to the destination. (e.g when your run routing test to Baguio at
>> this time, it always routes you to use Kennon).
>>
>> Although there are other roads within Baguio as well that it affected.
>>
>> Ervin M.
>> *Schadow1 Expeditions* - A Filipino must not be a stranger to his own
>> motherland.
>> http://www.s1expeditions.com
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 9:42 AM, Rally de Leon  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Ervin,
>>> I am guessing that this scheme is intended only to re-route tourists &
>>> viajeros coming down from Baguio, but optional for local communities living
>>> along Kennon Road. Maybe the "one-way" signboard/s to be placed at baguio's
>>> kennon road entry point will be good enough for this purpose. No need to
>>> temporarily make kennon a one-way road.
>>>
>>> It's still safer to expect counter-flow (from locals) along kennon,
>>> mahirap ng mahulog sa bangin!
>>>
>>> Rally :-)
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 9:07 AM, Ervin Malicdem 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello mappers,
>>>>
>>>> Anybody would like to edit these temporary one way roads in Baguio for
>>>> the Holy week this April 2 2015 until Sunday and edit it back after? I'm
>>>> still on the road so I can't do it on my end.
>>>>
>>>> I'd be publishing a GPS navigation map come Wednesday for Holy week
>>>> travelers so this must be already edited by March 31 so the changes will
>>>> reflect on the April 1 release.
>>>>
>>>> A detailed explanation of the roads in Baguio is published here for
>>>> reference
>>>> http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/682162/baguio-sets-one-way-traffic-on-kennon-other-streets
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> GPS Map of the Philippines is published here.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.s1expeditions.com/p/openstreetmaps.html
>>>>
>>>> Ervin Malicdem
>>>> for Schadow1 Expeditions
>>>> a Filipino must not be a stranger to his own motherland.
>>>> http://www.s1expeditions.com
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> talk-ph mailing list
>>>> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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>
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Re: [talk-ph] Center of Villages and Sub-villages in Maguindanao

[Rally de Leon]

Maning,
node with landuse=residential? okie

although I disagree that a place tag indicates a sign of administration
eg.
place=hamlet (an isolated dwelling in the middle of nowhere)
place=locality (which is commonly used as temp name of a place (which has a
known name), but not necessarily a community)


On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 3:42 PM, maning sambale 
wrote:

> Dear Rally,
>
>
> > I'm just guessing, but maybe it's the masjid/mosque that I should be
> looking
> > for. But, the buildings' shapes in the vicinity are all
> squares/rectangles
> > (if examined on bing images) which hardly give a clue that some
> particular
> > buildings are places of worship. Except for one noticeable difference:
> some
> > odd buildings are not aligned with the surrounding structures. They are
> > generally facing east, yet they don't have a common/consistent angle of
> > direction.
> For an example of a mosque, see here:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/6.98218/124.35695
> View in JOSM/iD to see imagery in Bing.
>
>
> > Does it make sense to put a node tagged as:
> > place=neighbourhood
> > FIXME=name
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
> No don't tag place=neighbourhood just use landuse=residential.
> Assigning a place tag (which indicates a form of administration)
> in these areas are very difficult.  There are cases where it looks
> like a small village given our assumption in other areas but it turned
> out to be
> a town center.  To avoid such confusion, just do a generic
> landuse=residential tag.
>
>
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> --
>
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[talk-ph] Center of Villages and Sub-villages in Maguindanao

[Rally de Leon]

I'm used to looking for basketball courts (and covered courts) which serve
as indicator of the center of the community when mapping neighborhoods in
Luzon

In the (link) example below (Maguindanao) there are no basketball courts.

http://goo.gl/CL5niv

I'm just guessing, but maybe it's the masjid/mosque that I should be
looking for. But, the buildings' shapes in the vicinity are all
squares/rectangles (if examined on bing images) which hardly give a clue
that some particular buildings are places of worship. Except for one
noticeable difference: some odd buildings are not aligned with the
surrounding structures. They are generally facing east, yet they don't have
a common/consistent angle of direction.

Is this (observation) a good indicator of masjid? How many percentage (of
masjid and/or regular structure) follow such rule?

Does it make sense to put a node tagged as:
place=neighbourhood
FIXME=name
in the vicinity of those particular structures, by presuming them be the
'centers of the communities/neighborhoods', so they can be properly
identified/named later by local mappers/residents?

-Rally
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Re: [talk-ph] nice mapping key from bangladesh mappers

[Rally de Leon]

Like :-)
But what's the reason why they don't want rice puddies mapped?

I also don't map rice paddies (it adds unnecessary clutter and makes the
map hard to look at).

In the case of http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/969 I decided to do the
opposite and experiment mapping rice paddies (landuse=farmland) and coconut
trees (landuse=orchard) (related to the on-going military operations over
there)

http://osm.org/go/4sHUF61w

I am biased towards mapping names neighborhoods (sub villages / sitio
/purok).

The trick is to look for the village center of a particular community. But
since there is no way of verifying a particular sitio's boundaries (on
ground), I thought identifying farmland boundaries/polygon can define the
shape of populated places... instead of mapping residential polygons

Observed:
-Most people don't live in the middle of ricefield (for obvious reason) -
access roads and prone to flooding
-Most people live near the the roads
-Some people lived under the cover of coconut leaves (coconut plantation) -
(where tagging landuse=residential can be tricky) - for something you
cannot see/verify
-Some are not visible under clouds (bing)

So if I tag majority of the rice fields, then I narrow down the focus of
hunting the center of the sub-villages (sitios).
Because leaving them "blank" for other mappers in OSM, then it can mean
anyhing, eg. like unmapped areas.

But if you see it's a crop land, then you are assured it's mapped; that
there is less (or no) people in the particular polygon.

In Luzon, I usually look for "basketball courts" (both open and covered
courts); almost always near a barangay hall, health center, purok hall etc.
(the center of community)

I haven't been to Mindanao, at least in the above subject area. I cannot
find the basketball courts :-( So I'm hunting down clues for school grounds
and religious buildings. Maybe just maybe, they are equivalent to the
Luzon's "basketball courts" (as the center of activity of most villages).
Any ideas (from veteran Mindanao mappers)?



On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 12:31 PM, maning sambale  wrote:

> Sorry, here's the link:
> http://hotosm.github.io/tracing-guides/guide/kulna.html
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 12:28 PM, Rally de Leon  wrote:
> > 404 file not found
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 11:55 AM, maning sambale
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> hotosm.github.io/tracing-guides/guide/
> >>
> >> --
> >> cheers,
> >> maning
> >> --
> >> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> >> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> >> --
> >>
> >> ___
> >> talk-ph mailing list
> >> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> --
>
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Re: [talk-ph] One-way roads in Baguio this Holy Week

[Rally de Leon]

Hi Ervin,
I am guessing that this scheme is intended only to re-route tourists &
viajeros coming down from Baguio, but optional for local communities living
along Kennon Road. Maybe the "one-way" signboard/s to be placed at baguio's
kennon road entry point will be good enough for this purpose. No need to
temporarily make kennon a one-way road.

It's still safer to expect counter-flow (from locals) along kennon, mahirap
ng mahulog sa bangin!

Rally :-)

On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 9:07 AM, Ervin Malicdem  wrote:

> Hello mappers,
>
> Anybody would like to edit these temporary one way roads in Baguio for the
> Holy week this April 2 2015 until Sunday and edit it back after? I'm still
> on the road so I can't do it on my end.
>
> I'd be publishing a GPS navigation map come Wednesday for Holy week
> travelers so this must be already edited by March 31 so the changes will
> reflect on the April 1 release.
>
> A detailed explanation of the roads in Baguio is published here for
> reference
> http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/682162/baguio-sets-one-way-traffic-on-kennon-other-streets
>
> Thanks!
>
> GPS Map of the Philippines is published here.
>
> http://www.s1expeditions.com/p/openstreetmaps.html
>
> Ervin Malicdem
> for Schadow1 Expeditions
> a Filipino must not be a stranger to his own motherland.
> http://www.s1expeditions.com
>
> ___
> talk-ph mailing list
> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
>
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Cebu road classification

[Rally de Leon]

Dear Totor,

I only discovered your message in my spam folder yesterday. I was the one
who edited and put all those ref by DPWH on primary roads (doing some
tests, checking for patterns all over PH)

The reason for the delay in reply is that I need to type an extensive
guidelines on trunk-editing (for osm learners) which is confusing to many.
I am fact-checking existing examples in OSM PH, where I myself broke the
recommended road classifications of DPWH many times.

It's better to explain by-example (and reason why), so that other mappers
reading this can benefit from discussion (links: to follow later)

My edits in Cebu Proper:
Route 8 (camino real) which is classified as primary by DPWH (equivalent to
trunk road) in OSM. I initially followed faithfully the DPWH's route -
which in "many times" proven as outdated. Is the current trunk route shape
still valid? Reroute if necessary, but leave the DPWH ref value intact.

Route 840 coastal road (by-pass or diversion road), which also appeared as
trunk on OSM. I initially decided to downgrade this to primary route -
prior to testing and consultations with local mappers (see my personal
guidelines below - second rule)

As for the 2 bridges that goes to the airport (they also run in parallel) -
having the same function (applying my second rule). I did not touch Marcelo
Fernan route (check edit history) :-) I just saw the original route on
DPWH's database, the Marcelo Fernan isn't even on DPWH (probably a city or
provincial road - national road?) - didn't noticed coz I was in a hurry
that time (forgot to open a discussion for consultation). If you feel
Marcelo Fernan qualifies more as a trunk than the other bridge (considering
the guidelines below), then by all means, tag it correctly as you see it on
the ground.

Anyways, better this way... "somebody breaks something" (as I always break
something, hehe), we have more people interested in reading and learning,
how we will solve this :-)

Please see my personal notes below.

Cheers,
Rally





I use the following guidelines (rules) in my head in editing primary and
arterial roads.
This is not yet an extensive list and I wish we can get more ideas from
others.

*First Rule*: Don't follow DPWH recommended routes, they are just guide.
They're outdated in so many areas (I will show many examples in various
areas that doesn't make sense).


*Second Rule*: No two (or more) trunk should run in parallel routes (having
same regional function).

The typical case of (old) Camino Real vs. (new) Diversion/By-Pass Road --
choosing which one will be the designated provincial or regional trunk road
in OSM map? (forget DPWH). But  you should only have one trunk crossing a
town or typical city, by looking at it in the regional or provincial
perspective.


*Clue: look at the intention of DPWH (regional planning). Have they widened
the old primary routes (to maintain primary status)? But if the Diversion
Road is being redesigned with more capacity: twice as wide, twice as fast
as the old route, and is actually used by regional motorists, then the
answer is obvious. *

This is tricky in example Lubao By-Pass Road (Pampanga). Maybe because said
By-pass road is not a National Road? same case with Marcelo Fernan Bridge
(not on DPWH)

If we notice, DPWH uses the same concept: they rarely have two 'primary'
running in parallel.
eg. In the case of NCR, even if Alabang-Zapote is far from Sucat Road, they
tag Sucat Road as primary, Alabang-Zapote as secondary (even if the latter
is allegedly part of the old Daang Maharlika). My theory is that DPWH treat
these two road serving the same function (in the future): linking SLEX (E2)
to CAVITEX (E3/E4). But I tend to disagree and will recommend
Alabang-Zapote be tagged as Trunk, because I believe Daang Hari will become
trunk someday, then it will violate my *Third Rule.*


*Third Rule:*Trunk should not terminate in the middle of somewhere. It
should typically terminate on:
(1) another trunk road
(2) expressway
(3) major port/gateway: international airport or seaport, or a major ro-ro
terminal (SRNH)
(4) self-contained major city, eg. provincial capital
(5) circumferential provincial roads that ends on itself (in some islands)

examples:
- trunk road stopping at Tabuk, Kalinga (because it's the capital)
- decision to extend Quezon Ave (N170) from Mabuhay Rotonda to the nearest
trunk, which is AH26 (N120 Roxas Blvd) via N150(Padre Burgos) instead of
via N170 (Taft Ave back to EDSA); because routing to Taft Ave will break
the Second Rule (running parallel trunks with N120(Roxas Blvd) and
N145(South Super) which are also both located in Manila, all going in the
same direction to EDSA.


*Fourth Rule:* Test if it is really "THE" trunk road.

This is a tricky balancing act, considering its function, the original govt
design and how ALL (INCLUSIVE) motorists actual use them. (I had
contradicted/reverted my own edits so many times, after the quest

Re: [talk-ph] NHN 2 Luzon

[Rally de Leon]

Related issues in connection with DPWH's database (new Classification &
Route numbers):

Road Classification:DPWH's internal road class (primary & secondary) will
generally be our reference guide, but will not work with OSM as there is no
direct relation.
(eg. their 'primary' seems to correspond to OSM's 'trunk' but not always;
Secondary is more often than not - equivalent to OSM's Primary, but may
become Secondary etc.).

And besides, DPWH doesn't seem to follow the best practices in map making.
Their "classification" is the result to motorists volume per day, as well
as with considerations to connecting towns with big population, and or
connection to major ports

Our OSMPH mapper's classification seem to follow the "function" of the road
and it's relation to economic activity and flow of commerce 'relative' to
the region -- no absolute rule. (just my observation) And it follows a
smoother path, not stopping abruptly out of nowhere.

There are lots of exceptions/observations I discovered in classifying roads
(to the rules and biases we are accustomed to), in fact I need to undo a
lot of my own stupid edits, eg. making Marikina-Infanta Road as trunk (by
previous consensus that all main roads crossing 'provincial boundaries' are
trunk roads, which I will revert to Primary (something like that).

We have to weigh-in between OSMPH's best practices and the logic behind
DPWH's system. This is for discussion later, so we can agree on a new
guideline based on our new discoveries/observations (on-going)

As to NAMING ROADS:
I agree with maning earlier, that we use name on OSM as we see them in
physical object, eg. Street Signs -

name= and NOT the "official name" commonly dictated by the law
or ordinance. we have official_name= which can be used for that purpose.

The longer the road name - the smaller the printed font gets,
-the lesser visible they becomes (on highway);
-the more clutter on digital devices and paper maps.

But we stick to the OSM's use of complete suffix (eg. Street) even though I
disagree :-)

This suggested unofficial guideline for our local mappers is in lieu of
non-existent PH law prescribing maximum length of Road names - which should
be on the practical side,

Anyways, like it or not ...is already unofficially practiced by LGU's and
some govt agencies
eg.
- look at Manila's bigger street signs, adopting: "Osmeña Hwy, Quirino Hwy"
instead of the long "President Osmeña Highway" "Pres. Quirino Highway as
seen on the older street sign).

- The many variants of Buendia Ave (still in use in newer signs), Sen. Gil
Puyat Ave, G. Puyat Ave, Gil Puyat Ave. but they will eventually go for the
shorter version.

- how many signboards have we seen written with the official name "Epifanio
Delos Santos Avenue" instead of EDSA (which is in most if not all of the
streetsigns)?

- same with SLEX, NLEX, SCTEX,... and yes, even in the new list of DPWH
official names says it's SLEX, NLEX, SCTEX etc.

On the good side, since ref=SLEX ref=NLEX will disappear soon, they will be
replaced with an easy to read and highly visible road names on the road
itself
eg. name=SLEX

Other Issues: Sorting Order (in dropdown menus, or simple search in tiny
keyboards, or paper index) can also be a problem with many unofficial
variants of spelling. Then why prolong the agony and save some tax payers
money by not contributing to the confusion on conflicting signboard
entries? LGU just google the name, or look at OSM for naming guidance. ;-)

We better make it right and consistent with the "actual". Maybe just maybe,
a congressman will notice the pattern in naming conventions in our maps,
then do something about it.

This topic will be for discussion later (on another thread), but don't be
surprised if some (including me) have initiated changes in road names. I
already did EDSA :-)

Cheers,
Rally

On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 7:35 PM, Rally de Leon  wrote:

> Dear Ronny,
>
> At the moment, I'm doing damage control (just discovered it an hour ago).
> I think I accidentally erased MacArthur Highway's name along Manila North
> Road. Based on edit history, it was on March 9. Too late I just had to
> rename it back instead of reverting, (or maybe I'm way too late if somebody
> beat me into reverting instead, due to simultaneous edits).
>
> As for the affected bridges' names, there's a complete list of bridge
> names at "philippine geoportal" - so no problem later.
>
> Another thing, I just discovered that MacArthur Highway doesn't extend to
> La Union (my previous impression). I think it's from Balintawak to
> Urdaneta, then run eastward towards Dagupan-Lingayen (per REPUBLIC ACT NO.
> 3080). -- which makes sense as this was probably the route used to Liberate
>

Re: [talk-ph] NHN 2 Luzon

[Rally de Leon]

Dear Ronny,

At the moment, I'm doing damage control (just discovered it an hour ago). I
think I accidentally erased MacArthur Highway's name along Manila North
Road. Based on edit history, it was on March 9. Too late I just had to
rename it back instead of reverting, (or maybe I'm way too late if somebody
beat me into reverting instead, due to simultaneous edits).

As for the affected bridges' names, there's a complete list of bridge names
at "philippine geoportal" - so no problem later.

Another thing, I just discovered that MacArthur Highway doesn't extend to
La Union (my previous impression). I think it's from Balintawak to
Urdaneta, then run eastward towards Dagupan-Lingayen (per REPUBLIC ACT NO.
3080). -- which makes sense as this was probably the route used to Liberate
Manila. All roads northward after Urdaneta Juction are still officially
"Manila North Road", unless an LGU decided to rename a portion to another
name. But then again, this is a major National Road (I don't know if LGU
can do that).

-Rally

On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 7:28 PM, Rally de Leon  wrote:

> Dear Ronny,
>
> This past week, I've been editing OSM all over PH particularly primary
> roads. That's why the old ref's are being replaced to be the same as DPWH's
> system, and are stored in duplicates with Route Relations. As soon as I can
> get the right work flow (still doing trial and error on format), I will
> invite all of you to edit, coz there's a lot to do (particularly the
> Section_ID per DPWH engineering district)
>
> A few hours ago, (per DPWH request) my experimental "NBN route name
> format" were all converted to Nxxx format. Thus route 1 is N1, route 2 is
> N2 etc. to be more compatible with DPWH's database.
>
> Yup, it's the new official route numbering system being implemented by
> DPWH. see:
>
> https://dpwh.maps.arcgis.com/apps/OnePane/basicviewer/index.html?appid=4b48284a409844fab6876aa77be8bf58#
>
> We cannot do anything about the new route number system. It's the future.
> Wazers were the first to implement this on wide scale. All our
> outdated/obsolete route numbers in OSM must go, (even the ones I introduced
> eg. SNRH, MNR, etc. for the same personal reason ...rendering) :-) I know
> many will feel sentimental, but sorry to say even NLEX, TPLEX, SCTEX, etc
> will have to disappear in favor of E series route numbers.
>
> In fact, I emailed my favorite map app Maps.ME regarding support for
> double value ref, eg. the ones you introduced in MacArthur, as well as the
> one I am currently experimenting on EDSA (eg. ref=1,AH26). I saw the
> rendering will be a bit ugly (but tolerable). But using double value on
> ref, will not help people (using "simple search" for a particular ref value
> if unknowingly, some of the ref (which is officially used) has some
> extraneous values). Good thing we introducing Route Relations, so there
> will be less headache for those who are into data extractions - should
> future users or newbie customize the ref's.
>
> Connected to this, there an ongoing trend in the transport planning that
> will make Circumferential & Radial Road system irrelevant in the future,
> (even on Official Gazette)
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM_Z4CGgZSM&feature=youtu.be  C-5, C-4,
> R8, R6 etc will probably just become "road names" (not a road system). They
> will also disappear from OSM in favor of new DPWH's system.
>
> If we are still not seeing the big picture in adopting a consistent route
> number format (at least for non-programmer mortal like me),
> -future researchers, auditor, journalist, contractors, etc. can look up
> Section_ID of a particular DPWH road project.
> -said Route relations (portions) can be recycled for other purposes, eg.
> administrative boundaries, bus routes, navigation apps, other custom
> routes, will be very easy coz we don't have to trace same routes again etc.
> (like somebody in Davao is mapping transport routes on top of existing
> roads (by literally drawing another way on top), which is a pain to look at)
> -Digital Sat Nav devices' auto-route are now referring to Route Numbers
> instead of the non-consistent highway names (makes travelling simple) eg.
> follow highway shield (road markers with route numbers along the highway)
> instead of looking at the varying road names.
>
> Will discuss more later (sorry for my usual me, this email is getting very
> long)
>
> Cheers,
> Rally :-)
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 4:32 PM, Ronny Ager-Wick 
> wrote:
>
>> I noticed Rally's recent update including MacArthur highway in NHN 2
>> Luzon:
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4659407#map=8

Re: [talk-ph] NHN 2 Luzon

[Rally de Leon]

Dear Ronny,

This past week, I've been editing OSM all over PH particularly primary
roads. That's why the old ref's are being replaced to be the same as DPWH's
system, and are stored in duplicates with Route Relations. As soon as I can
get the right work flow (still doing trial and error on format), I will
invite all of you to edit, coz there's a lot to do (particularly the
Section_ID per DPWH engineering district)

A few hours ago, (per DPWH request) my experimental "NBN route name format"
were all converted to Nxxx format. Thus route 1 is N1, route 2 is N2 etc.
to be more compatible with DPWH's database.

Yup, it's the new official route numbering system being implemented by
DPWH. see:
https://dpwh.maps.arcgis.com/apps/OnePane/basicviewer/index.html?appid=4b48284a409844fab6876aa77be8bf58#

We cannot do anything about the new route number system. It's the future.
Wazers were the first to implement this on wide scale. All our
outdated/obsolete route numbers in OSM must go, (even the ones I introduced
eg. SNRH, MNR, etc. for the same personal reason ...rendering) :-) I know
many will feel sentimental, but sorry to say even NLEX, TPLEX, SCTEX, etc
will have to disappear in favor of E series route numbers.

In fact, I emailed my favorite map app Maps.ME regarding support for double
value ref, eg. the ones you introduced in MacArthur, as well as the one I
am currently experimenting on EDSA (eg. ref=1,AH26). I saw the rendering
will be a bit ugly (but tolerable). But using double value on ref, will not
help people (using "simple search" for a particular ref value if
unknowingly, some of the ref (which is officially used) has some extraneous
values). Good thing we introducing Route Relations, so there will be less
headache for those who are into data extractions - should future users or
newbie customize the ref's.

Connected to this, there an ongoing trend in the transport planning that
will make Circumferential & Radial Road system irrelevant in the future,
(even on Official Gazette)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM_Z4CGgZSM&feature=youtu.be  C-5, C-4, R8,
R6 etc will probably just become "road names" (not a road system). They
will also disappear from OSM in favor of new DPWH's system.

If we are still not seeing the big picture in adopting a consistent route
number format (at least for non-programmer mortal like me),
-future researchers, auditor, journalist, contractors, etc. can look up
Section_ID of a particular DPWH road project.
-said Route relations (portions) can be recycled for other purposes, eg.
administrative boundaries, bus routes, navigation apps, other custom
routes, will be very easy coz we don't have to trace same routes again etc.
(like somebody in Davao is mapping transport routes on top of existing
roads (by literally drawing another way on top), which is a pain to look at)
-Digital Sat Nav devices' auto-route are now referring to Route Numbers
instead of the non-consistent highway names (makes travelling simple) eg.
follow highway shield (road markers with route numbers along the highway)
instead of looking at the varying road names.

Will discuss more later (sorry for my usual me, this email is getting very
long)

Cheers,
Rally :-)



On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 4:32 PM, Ronny Ager-Wick 
wrote:

> I noticed Rally's recent update including MacArthur highway in NHN 2 Luzon:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4659407#map=8/15.824/120.361
> I assume this was due to some updated guidelines from DPWH or something.
>
> I noticed this because I had just meticulously updated the name of every
> segment of MacArthur Highway from San Fernando/Angeles Border to
> Angeles/Mabalacat border, and every single name I had fixed, as well as all
> the previous ones, had now disappeared. I updated the name manually working
> myself south until I realized something must be up (yes, I know, it takes a
> bit of time sometimes), and then I noticed the new relation, and I noticed
> that (probably) on every segment of this relation, the name had
> disappeared.
>
> Was it intentional to delete the name of every segment of the road now
> called
> "Route 2"?
> If not, there are probably a lot of other segments that needs its name
> restored.
>
> By the way, is "Manila North Road" another name for MacArthur Highway, or
> is
> MacArthur just a small part of it?
>
> As pointed out earlier, it used to be called R-9, which is a theoretical
> name
> only, as everyone refers to it - or at least the segment I'm familiar with
> -
> as MacArthur Highway. Now, it's suddenly called "2". Again, nobody who
> lives
> or works or drives along this road apart from maybe a few of us and some
> people at DPWH knows about this, yet the "2" label is the most prominent
> on a
> lot of maps, as it's defined by the ref tag in OSM. I regularly drive this
> route, and I have yet to see a single sign with either R-9 or 2 or N2 or
> whatever. Granted, there's probably not a single sign saying MacArthur
> Highway
> either, but that's the name pe

[talk-ph] AH26, DPWH Route Numbers on Primary & Secondary Roads

[Rally de Leon]

DPWH's new Route numbers appearing in http://goo.gl/vGknWx (shortened URL)
went blank as of yesterday (March 5) - except for Expressways Route
numbers. There must be some changes in the format going on. Any news?

Good thing I was able to finish filing in the gaps (plus clean-ups of stray
tags) along the new AH26 described in Rappler article :-)

http://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/iq/74846-ah26-road-sign
(more or less with possible corrections)

Searching for highway with int_ref=AH26 in Philippines in Overpass-turbo
("type:way" excluding "type:relation") -- takes about a minute to load map

check the shortened link of interactive map:

http://goo.gl/LB9JEe

Finally I was able to visualize:
-where AH26 starts - where it meets Route#2 (Manila North Road) in Laoag
-the re-routing of AH26 to NLEX via Sta Rita Exit;
-the split-route in Balintawak going eastward to EDSA, and other going
westward to Caloocan-Port Area-Roxas Blvd then back to EDSA where the two
split-routes meet back in Magallanes towards SLEX
-where AH26 merges back with Maharlika Highway in SLEX Calamba Exit
-where it has a spur route in Visayas from Palo Leyte to Ormoc (following
Route 70), then via AH26 Sea Route to Cebu City
-where another spur starts in Davao City all the way to CDO via Route 10 in
Mindanao.
-where it ends in Zamboanga (Port)

Please help find areas where AH26 needs to be corrected (verified)
eg. where a city or town has a "Diversion Road"
eg. Tiaong Quezon, where I suspect AH26 uses the much wider Diversion Road,
yet I followed Route 1 (old Maharlika Highway)

BTW, I left the existing relation "Maharlika HIghway" (old route) intact.
I just made a new super-relation "AH26: PHILIPPINES (super)" in case you
want to edit or extract

Cheers,
Rally
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Re: [talk-ph] Let's talk about Daang Maharlika Highway (Asian Highway 26)

[Rally de Leon]

I edited one ref at EDSA with 2 values of "ref=1;AH26".
http://osm.org/go/4zhSOFRqJ--?m=

Rendering in Mapnik is not bad actually - which somehow approximate the
looks of the physical marker
http://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/iq/74846-ah26-road-sign
It makes the Route 1 bigger and more visible, befitting for it's status as
the country's primary backbone, well considering that the earlier single
digit "1" route marker was the smallest icon.

I will do the rest of EDSA later (or somebody else). Proceeding with
caution (EDSA only), wait until I can get confirmation that the
double-value ref will not mess up rendering of the majority of mapping ups
on smartphones. as it may not be worth it at the moment :-)


On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 9:32 PM, Rally de Leon  wrote:

> I will first assume that DPWH's Philippine National Highway Network (NHN)
> map as current and official information:
>
> https://dpwh.maps.arcgis.com/apps/OnePane/basicviewer/index.html?appid=4b48284a409844fab6876aa77be8bf58#
>
> Is the "Route 1" referred in above map exactly equals AH26 updated route?
>
> Because, according to DPWH Department Order N0.15-2009:
> http://www.dpwh.gov.ph/pdf/issuances/DO/09/DO_015_S2009.pdf which
> requires the DPWH to install "Route Markers" along Asian Higway (AH26)
> route "comprising MOSTLY segments of the Daang Maharlika commences from
> Laoag City and finally ends at the international seaport in Zamboanga City"
> -->take note of the word MOSTLY, which possibly means "not all" of Daang
> Maharlika. So which which? (best evidence is EDSA - AH26 was rerouted from
> an original alignment)
>
> So until verified on actual AH26 signboards in the field, map tracers may
> still assume it's aligned to the common Maharlika Highway as we originally
> know, as written on roadsigns, or as indicated on DPWH's NHN Route map.
>
>
> -
> About the official name (observations):
> 1. I already saw a couple of old signboards on the road and heard from
> locals the name Maharlika Highway (particularly in the Laguna and Quezon
> area),
> 2. I have seen many articles referring to AH26 as the "Daang Maharlika
> Highway" or its acronym/short_name DMH mentioned in some govt contracts,
> and also the official shortened name "Daang Maharlika"
> 3. BUT I have yet to see an old existing road sign that says "Pan
> Philippine Highway" or any relatively new article using said "Pan
> Philippine Highway" that was not based (or influenced) by the wiki article
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Philippine_Highway#References. What era
> was Pan-Philippine Highway
>
> Can somebody change the wiki article's title from "Pan-Philippine Highway"
> to the officially recognized and used "Daang Maharlika" or "Daang Maharlika
> Highway"; and just refer to the former as a historical trivia or as an
> alternative name?
>
>
> 
> Re: EDSA and C-4 use on ref tag
>
> I learned from certain edits of user:joyvious324 that putting two values
> of ref is officially recognized and rendered on mapnik. I also happen to
> like the looks and functional (on mapnik) but I don't know if it will mess
> up Garmin ref rendering and on my favorite Maps.me apps.
>
> (eg. on EDSA's route marker C-4 on top of "1" using ref=C-4;1)
>
> Proposal (to use 2 values on ref) instead of ref=1 and int_ref=AH26:
>
> -Calling said road as C-4 is more of a trivial/historical thing, than
> being more useful info in giving direction, when you are actually referring
> to the world famous EDSA (except for the northernmost portion of this road
> called C-4 for lack of name);
>
> and because of the fact that we are being ordered to use both Route 1 and
> AH26 per compliance with DPWH D.O.15-2009, and as evidenced by the physical
> route marker already placed along EDSA
> see picture on:  http://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/iq/74846-ah26-road-sign
>
> I would like to propose that we experiment the use of "ref=1;AH26" tag (at
> least on EDSA for about 1 to 2 months pending observation if it well mess
> up the rendering in Garmin and other smartphone apps. :-)
>
> --
> Relevance of this topic (AH26) was the Mamasapano Incident, wherein the
> main Mamasapano Highway was referred to a possibly erroneous name
> "Maharlika Highway" by many Senators and was already put on official
> records on Senate investigation. (basing on Google Map data and also
> previously on OSM which were both based on the wiki Pan Philippine Highway
> which may still be referring to the old AH26 alignment or a wrong info). In
> th future, the readers of this Senate report will be confused looking at a
> different road, which will not correspond to the new updated data on our
> digital maps (google or osm).
>
> There's a need for us to update and/or verify changes in the official
> routes of all other primary and secondary roads.
>
>
>
>
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[talk-ph] Let's talk about Daang Maharlika Highway (Asian Highway 26)

[Rally de Leon]

I will first assume that DPWH's Philippine National Highway Network (NHN)
map as current and official information:
https://dpwh.maps.arcgis.com/apps/OnePane/basicviewer/index.html?appid=4b48284a409844fab6876aa77be8bf58#

Is the "Route 1" referred in above map exactly equals AH26 updated route?

Because, according to DPWH Department Order N0.15-2009:
http://www.dpwh.gov.ph/pdf/issuances/DO/09/DO_015_S2009.pdf which requires
the DPWH to install "Route Markers" along Asian Higway (AH26) route
"comprising MOSTLY segments of the Daang Maharlika commences from Laoag
City and finally ends at the international seaport in Zamboanga City"
-->take note of the word MOSTLY, which possibly means "not all" of Daang
Maharlika. So which which? (best evidence is EDSA - AH26 was rerouted from
an original alignment)

So until verified on actual AH26 signboards in the field, map tracers may
still assume it's aligned to the common Maharlika Highway as we originally
know, as written on roadsigns, or as indicated on DPWH's NHN Route map.


-
About the official name (observations):
1. I already saw a couple of old signboards on the road and heard from
locals the name Maharlika Highway (particularly in the Laguna and Quezon
area),
2. I have seen many articles referring to AH26 as the "Daang Maharlika
Highway" or its acronym/short_name DMH mentioned in some govt contracts,
and also the official shortened name "Daang Maharlika"
3. BUT I have yet to see an old existing road sign that says "Pan
Philippine Highway" or any relatively new article using said "Pan
Philippine Highway" that was not based (or influenced) by the wiki article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-Philippine_Highway#References. What era
was Pan-Philippine Highway

Can somebody change the wiki article's title from "Pan-Philippine Highway"
to the officially recognized and used "Daang Maharlika" or "Daang Maharlika
Highway"; and just refer to the former as a historical trivia or as an
alternative name?



Re: EDSA and C-4 use on ref tag

I learned from certain edits of user:joyvious324 that putting two values of
ref is officially recognized and rendered on mapnik. I also happen to like
the looks and functional (on mapnik) but I don't know if it will mess up
Garmin ref rendering and on my favorite Maps.me apps.

(eg. on EDSA's route marker C-4 on top of "1" using ref=C-4;1)

Proposal (to use 2 values on ref) instead of ref=1 and int_ref=AH26:

-Calling said road as C-4 is more of a trivial/historical thing, than being
more useful info in giving direction, when you are actually referring to
the world famous EDSA (except for the northernmost portion of this road
called C-4 for lack of name);

and because of the fact that we are being ordered to use both Route 1 and
AH26 per compliance with DPWH D.O.15-2009, and as evidenced by the physical
route marker already placed along EDSA
see picture on:  http://www.rappler.com/newsbreak/iq/74846-ah26-road-sign

I would like to propose that we experiment the use of "ref=1;AH26" tag (at
least on EDSA for about 1 to 2 months pending observation if it well mess
up the rendering in Garmin and other smartphone apps. :-)

--
Relevance of this topic (AH26) was the Mamasapano Incident, wherein the
main Mamasapano Highway was referred to a possibly erroneous name
"Maharlika Highway" by many Senators and was already put on official
records on Senate investigation. (basing on Google Map data and also
previously on OSM which were both based on the wiki Pan Philippine Highway
which may still be referring to the old AH26 alignment or a wrong info). In
th future, the readers of this Senate report will be confused looking at a
different road, which will not correspond to the new updated data on our
digital maps (google or osm).

There's a need for us to update and/or verify changes in the official
routes of all other primary and secondary roads.
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Re: [talk-ph] Mamasapano Incident

[Rally de Leon]

Wayne,
On Google maps, the Tukanalipao main road is still reflected as the AH26 or
Maharlika Highway (Route 1). That was also the case with OpenStreetMap
which were all based on the approximate route shape from a wiki map. I
already updated this on OSM (now correctly tagged as Route 940 - a
secondary road on DPWH map).

On DPWH Road Class & Route Numbering map on:
https://dpwh.maps.arcgis.com/apps/OnePane/basicviewer/index.html?appid=4b48284a409844fab6876aa77be8bf58#
Maharlika Highway (Route 1) cuts through Shariff Aguak all the way to
Cotabato City. Can you further investigate/verify, or edit in Google Maps?

It's very hard to edit a Trunk road classification once it matures. The
trunk rendering tend to stick for while.

Thanks,
Rally

On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 9:29 AM, Rally de Leon  wrote:

> Wayne,
> Nice - very detailed report. (I am not updated with the news, hehe)
> What got me curious was the Military Grid Reference - how to convert to
> WGS84? any ideas? I don't know if the crude method I used was correct.
>
> I'll try to work my way backwards to verify if the computed Lat Long from
> the SMS (tweeted) message made sense from what actually happened.
>
> Thanks,
> Rally
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 8:58 AM, Wayne Manuel  wrote:
>
>> Hey Rally,
>>
>> The PNP Presentation in the Senate showed the location on a map with a
>> satellite image (Google Earth).
>>
>>
>> http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/430388/news/nation/full-presentation-pnp-board-of-inquiry-fact-file-on-mamasapano-clash
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Wayne Manuel
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 2:44 AM, Rally de Leon  wrote:
>>
>>> There is a coordinate given here:
>>> https://twitter.com/ANCALERTS/status/564990109913608193/photo/1
>>> "GC 6798365714"
>>>
>>> Assuming "6798365714" as Military Grid Reference System
>>>
>>> I tried this online MGRS to WGS84 Converter:
>>> http://www.legallandconverter.com/p50.html
>>>
>>> using MGRS format -->  51N XH 67983 65714
>>>
>>> where:
>>>   51N is GZD (Grid Zone Designator) based on
>>> http://www.legallandconverter.com/images/world-mgrs-grid.jpg
>>>
>>>   XH is the "100-km Grid Square ID" from shp file of 51N on
>>> http://earth-info.nga.mil/GandG/coordsys/grids/mgrs_1km_polygon_dloads.html#Downloading
>>>
>>> Result:
>>> WGS84 --> *Lat 6.92489  Long 124.52047*
>>>
>>> This points to a familiar area on:
>>>
>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=6.9249&mlon=124.5205#map=14/6.9249/124.5205
>>>
>>> Could this be it?
>>>
>>> There's a drone video by Raffy Tima described as
>>> "an aerial view of the PNP-SAF extraction route towards waiting SAF
>>> commandos on the highway more than a kilometer away."
>>> I don't know if it's pointing to the same area:
>>>
>>> http://instagram.com/p/y4GftOx1RF/?utm_source=partner&utm_medium=embed&utm_campaign=video
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> talk-ph mailing list
>>> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Mamasapano Incident

[Rally de Leon]

Wayne,
Nice - very detailed report. (I am not updated with the news, hehe)
What got me curious was the Military Grid Reference - how to convert to
WGS84? any ideas? I don't know if the crude method I used was correct.

I'll try to work my way backwards to verify if the computed Lat Long from
the SMS (tweeted) message made sense from what actually happened.

Thanks,
Rally



On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 8:58 AM, Wayne Manuel  wrote:

> Hey Rally,
>
> The PNP Presentation in the Senate showed the location on a map with a
> satellite image (Google Earth).
>
>
> http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/430388/news/nation/full-presentation-pnp-board-of-inquiry-fact-file-on-mamasapano-clash
>
>
>
>
>
> Wayne Manuel
>
> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 2:44 AM, Rally de Leon  wrote:
>
>> There is a coordinate given here:
>> https://twitter.com/ANCALERTS/status/564990109913608193/photo/1
>> "GC 6798365714"
>>
>> Assuming "6798365714" as Military Grid Reference System
>>
>> I tried this online MGRS to WGS84 Converter:
>> http://www.legallandconverter.com/p50.html
>>
>> using MGRS format -->  51N XH 67983 65714
>>
>> where:
>>   51N is GZD (Grid Zone Designator) based on
>> http://www.legallandconverter.com/images/world-mgrs-grid.jpg
>>
>>   XH is the "100-km Grid Square ID" from shp file of 51N on
>> http://earth-info.nga.mil/GandG/coordsys/grids/mgrs_1km_polygon_dloads.html#Downloading
>>
>> Result:
>> WGS84 --> *Lat 6.92489  Long 124.52047*
>>
>> This points to a familiar area on:
>>
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=6.9249&mlon=124.5205#map=14/6.9249/124.5205
>>
>> Could this be it?
>>
>> There's a drone video by Raffy Tima described as
>> "an aerial view of the PNP-SAF extraction route towards waiting SAF
>> commandos on the highway more than a kilometer away."
>> I don't know if it's pointing to the same area:
>>
>> http://instagram.com/p/y4GftOx1RF/?utm_source=partner&utm_medium=embed&utm_campaign=video
>>
>>
>> ___
>> talk-ph mailing list
>> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
>>
>>
>
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[talk-ph] Mamasapano Incident

[Rally de Leon]

There is a coordinate given here:
https://twitter.com/ANCALERTS/status/564990109913608193/photo/1
"GC 6798365714"

Assuming "6798365714" as Military Grid Reference System

I tried this online MGRS to WGS84 Converter:
http://www.legallandconverter.com/p50.html

using MGRS format -->  51N XH 67983 65714

where:
  51N is GZD (Grid Zone Designator) based on
http://www.legallandconverter.com/images/world-mgrs-grid.jpg

  XH is the "100-km Grid Square ID" from shp file of 51N on
http://earth-info.nga.mil/GandG/coordsys/grids/mgrs_1km_polygon_dloads.html#Downloading

Result:
WGS84 --> *Lat 6.92489  Long 124.52047*

This points to a familiar area on:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=6.9249&mlon=124.5205#map=14/6.9249/124.5205

Could this be it?

There's a drone video by Raffy Tima described as
"an aerial view of the PNP-SAF extraction route towards waiting SAF
commandos on the highway more than a kilometer away."
I don't know if it's pointing to the same area:
http://instagram.com/p/y4GftOx1RF/?utm_source=partner&utm_medium=embed&utm_campaign=video
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Re: [talk-ph] Sariaya Mini Mapping Party on November 29

[Rally de Leon]

Rem,
this is a one-day event.

Eugene,
Rhodor confirmed. Riding with me from taytay to alabang
On Nov 28, 2014 12:38 PM, "Rem Zamora"  wrote:

> Will this be a one-day event only Eugene?
>
> On Fri Nov 28 2014 at 9:04:46 AM Rally de Leon  wrote:
>
>> I'll be in Alabang at 6am. I'm driving alone coming from Taytay. I can
>> accommodate 2 or 3 more volunteers if they want to go to Sariaya. :-)
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 1:20 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> If you're not going to FOSS4G-PH this coming November 29 (see Maning's
>>> earlier e-mail), you might want to join us for a mini Mapping Party in
>>> Sariaya, Quezon instead! :-)
>>>
>>> If you are interested to join, please reply to me privately as we are
>>> finalizing arrangements.
>>>
>>> Hope you can join!
>>>
>>> ~Eugene
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>> ___
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>>
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Sariaya Mini Mapping Party on November 29

[Rally de Leon]

 I'll be in Alabang at 6am. I'm driving alone coming from Taytay. I can
accommodate 2 or 3 more volunteers if they want to go to Sariaya. :-)

On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 1:20 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar 
wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> If you're not going to FOSS4G-PH this coming November 29 (see Maning's
> earlier e-mail), you might want to join us for a mini Mapping Party in
> Sariaya, Quezon instead! :-)
>
> If you are interested to join, please reply to me privately as we are
> finalizing arrangements.
>
> Hope you can join!
>
> ~Eugene
>
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Re: [talk-ph] SOTM-PH 2014?

[Rally de Leon]

How about randomly choosing a place within Metro Manila or even the suburbs
up to lower bulacan, northern cavite, western laguna, san mateo rizal or
antipolo? Send warm invitations (via email or personal message) to local
mappers and/or active humanitarian/rescue-inclined individuals in an area.

Arrange car pool with other active mappers of NCR; meet, promote, suggest
projects and swap mapping stories with local mappers there.

Need not be night time. Meetups can be before sunrise, breakfast at a local
eatery, bakery or coffee shop somewhere along any highway or on top of a
hill :-)

On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 6:59 PM, maning sambale 
wrote:

> Great idea Eugene! Who wants to host the October event?
>
> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 8:28 PM, RK  wrote:
> > Sounds interesting. PythonPH has a monthly meetup too :) Maybe we should
> try
> > this? We can have a speaker or two per meetup. And maybe a workshop every
> > few months depending on the demand/availability of people.
>
>
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> --
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Concluded Mapping Expedition of Apo Reef and Sablayan, Occidental Mindoro

[Rally de Leon]

+1 like (captivating)
thanks! :-)


On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 1:10 AM, Ervin Malicdem  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Just came home from a mapping expedition to the world's 2nd largest
> contiguous coral reef and largest in the Philippines.
>
> Mapping data has been contributed to Openstreetmap.
>
> Check out the article here
> http://www.s1expeditions.com/2014/02/135-captivating-apo-reef.html
>
> and the map here
> http://osm.org/go/4yaL7el-?m=
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Ervin M.
> *Schadow1 Expeditions* - A Filipino must not be a stranger to his own
> motherland.
> http://www.s1expeditions.com
>
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[talk-ph] UWM Libraries Digital Collections

[Rally de Leon]

Map of Manila (1945)

http://collections.lib.uwm.edu/cdm/search/searchterm/Manila/field/all/mode/all/conn/and/order/title/cosuppress/0/page/1
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Re: [talk-ph] Extending mapping to other areas and improving remote mappers contributions.

[Rally de Leon]

Can we put a daily-countdown announcement on FB (until expiration date)
about that 30-day opportunity to trace...? :-)


On Sat, Nov 23, 2013 at 11:03 AM, maning sambale  wrote:

> Dear OSM-PH mappers,
>
> As you all know, the global response to map Yolanda/Haiyan affected
> areas is tremendous. So far, many of the tasks are fairly covered by
> volunteers
> worldwide.
>
> For the OSMPH mappers, I would like us to focus on the following tasks:
>
> 1. Maximize the use of DigitalGlobe imagery since it will expire in 30
> or less days.
> I created a task for this [0].
>
> As you can see the imagery coverage is well beyond the Typhoon
> affected areas.  We can use this to improve data for example in:
>   - New Bataan (Pablo 2012)
>   - Zamboanga City (post-MNLF crisis)
>   - Bohol (Earthquake, 2013)
>
> 2. Trace small islands along the typhoon path.  Many of these small
> islands may have people
> (check the imagery if there are evidence of settlements).  Let's put
> them in the map so that
> responders know they exist.
>
> 3. Do general quality check of edits.  Osmose by OSM-FR is a good tool to
> check common errors [1].
>
> 4. One last tip if you use JOSM, in order to avoid conflict with
> simultaneous editors nearby,
> use JOSM's GeoChat plugin [2] to chat with editors.
>
> Thanks!
>
> [0] here: http://tasks2.hotosm.org/job/1003
> [1]
> http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/?zoom=17&lat=11.21248&lon=125.00923&layers=00BFFT&level=1,2,3
> [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/GeoChat
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> --
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Post-Mechanical Edit report (PNB/Allied Bank Mechanical Edits)

[Rally de Leon]

nice step-by-step guide. thanks :-)



On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 11:27 AM, ianlopez  wrote:

> Last night, I made seven changesets [1] that are part of the PNB/Allied
> Bank Mechanical Edits.
>
> What I did:
> 1. Inform the mappers in the affected areas using this mailing list while
> simultaneously making a plan on how to manage the edits and publicizing
> them for comments and suggestions
> 2. Document my mechanical edits in the OSM Wiki
> 3. Make mechanical edits
> 4. Make a Post-Mechanical Edit report
>
> What I've noticed:
> 1. There are cases that bank branches have been relocated. An example of
> this was the Kidapawan branch, which was relocated to Calinan in Davao
> City[2]. Both nodes representing the two branches are currently tagged as
> PNB branches.
> 2. During the mechanical editing process, one duplicate node in Lapu-Lapu
> City was deleted while two buildings (one in Pampanga and one in Davao City
> have been stripped of their bank-related tags due to the One feature, one
> OSM element principle.
> 3. Except the instance when I encountered an edit conflict during the
> North Luzon leg of the mechanical edit, the mechanical editing process went
> smoothly as planned.
>
> What can you do after the recent mechanical edit:
> 1. Do on-the-ground surveys to confirm if the Allied Bank branch is now a
> PNB branch.
> 2. If you noticed that my mechanical edits do not correspond to the
> on-the-ground situation, do the following:
> 2.1 Message me to revert my mechanical edit for a certain branch or area.
> 2.2 Make the corresponding edits. Example: if the Allied Bank branch is
> not yet an PNB branch, re-tag it as name=Allied Bank and remove the
> old_name tag for the time being. If it becomes a PNB branch, change the
> tags to name=PNB; old_name=Allied Bank.
>
> To be done in future mechanical edits:
> 1. Notify users in affected areas at least 3 days before the planned
> mechanical edits through OSM inbox, since not everyone is a part of this
> mailing list.
> 2. Create a dedicated mechanical edits account
>
>
> [1] see
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edits/Ianlopez1115#PNB.2FAllied_Bank_tagging_change_.28October_2013.29
> [2]
> http://www.pnb.com.ph/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=600&Itemid=206-
>  I didn't copy any information from this site
>
> -
> Blog: http://ianlopez1115.wordpress.com/
> OpenStreetMap/Twitter: ianlopez1115
> Facebook: ian.lopez
>
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Re: [talk-ph] recommended csv format

[Rally de Leon]

So me being confused about something so simple is valid. :-)

It all started with me using Osmconvert
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmconvert in the search for a "macgyver
solution" to make osm raw data become readable/distributable in spreadsheet
form

which has this example that I initially adapted: (csv in @lon @lat order)

osmconvert shops.osm --all-to-nodes --csv="@id @lon @lat amenity shop
name" --csv-headline





On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 1:21 PM, maning sambale
wrote:

> The problem with lat,long is that it will be confusing when you plot
> it in a cartesian plane.
> Mathematics convention is x,y (hence long,lat) and this becomes more
> confusing if you use a projected coordinate system like UTM (Easting,
> Northing).
>
> For a bit of history, the lat, long order came from its roots in sea
> navigation.  During those days (where there are no GPS or even marine
> chronometer) only latitude (north and south) could be measured with
> great accuracy.
>
> My suggestion, stick to the one you prefer and use it consistently.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Ed Garcia  wrote:
> > I also used lat-long ever since.  My GPS devices displays them in that
> > order, downloads them in that order too.  my android GPS apps (GPS
> > Essentials, One Touch Location, etc) displays them in that order too.
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Wayne Manuel 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Personally, I prefer lat-long. Easier to tell people that it should be
> >> alphabetical. And that at least in the PHL, the smaller number comes
> before
> >> the bigger number.
> >>
> >> Also, when copying latitude longitude from Google Maps urls (the ll
> >> parameter), it's lat long.
> >>
> >> When you want to quickly check where your lat longs are, you can just
> >> paste it into the Google Maps search box as lat,long
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Wayne Manuel
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Rally de Leon 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Dear all,
> >>>
> >>> Which is the more common / preferred format for csv
> >>> lat,long,name or long,lat,name? and why do you prefer one over the
> other?
> >>> (eg. less hassle, less clicks to import csv to common GIS softwares)
> >>>
> >>> If I am to recommend to ordinary people a free conversion utility,
> which
> >>> one? (my 2 preferred utility have different csv format)
> >>>
> >>> If i use "gpsbabel's" generic (Comma separated values) option (eg. kml
> to
> >>> csv conversion)---> gpsbabel -w -i kml -f filename.kml -o csv -F
> >>> filename.csv
> >>> csv will be in this order---> lat,long,name
> >>>
> >>> If i use another easy-to-use/free/multi-platform "KMLCSV" (from
> >>> http://choonchernlim.com/kmlcsv/ )
> >>> kml to csv conversion will give you---> long,lat,name
> >>>
> >>> KMLCSV is very easy to use and allows ordinary people to view the POI's
> >>> on built-in google maps for quick verification. easy to install, easy
> to
> >>> distribute, virtually idiot-proof.
> >>>
> >>> GPSBabel is universal, has gui and  command line, but has too many
> >>> option-buttons that can be confusing for ordinary user.
> >>>
> >>> or is there a way gpsbabel can convert (kml to csv) or (osm to csv) in
> >>> long,lat,name csv format?
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Rally
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> talk-ph mailing list
> >>> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
> >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > website administrator:
> > - www.waypoints.ph
> > - reeflife.eppgarcia.com
> >
> > PADI Divemaster #491048
> >
> > ___
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> > talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
> >
>
>
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> --
>
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Re: [talk-ph] recommended csv format

[Rally de Leon]

Thank you for your answers. It looks like the Lat-Long wins :-)

Yes, its more natural to read in lat-long order. I checked with some paper
records of the Bureau of Lands Location Monuments (BLLM), they too have
Latitude/Northings Longitude/Eastings columns. Googe Earth uses it.

Maybe the only reason why some technical people and gis programs use
long-lat format is don't want to reverse the order of x-y coordinate on
their data list. I'm dropping KMLCSV Converter from my preferred utilities
to recommend to lay people (too bad i love its simplicity, and can launch
Garmin POI loader from within - no big deal)


On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 12:34 PM, Ed Garcia  wrote:

> I also used lat-long ever since.  My GPS devices displays them in that
> order, downloads them in that order too.  my android GPS apps (GPS
> Essentials, One Touch Location, etc) displays them in that order too.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Wayne Manuel  wrote:
>
>> Personally, I prefer lat-long. Easier to tell people that it should be
>> alphabetical. And that at least in the PHL, the smaller number comes before
>> the bigger number.
>>
>> Also, when copying latitude longitude from Google Maps urls (the ll
>> parameter), it's lat long.
>>
>> When you want to quickly check where your lat longs are, you can just
>> paste it into the Google Maps search box as lat,long
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Wayne Manuel
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Rally de Leon wrote:
>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> Which is the more common / preferred format for csv
>>> lat,long,name or long,lat,name? and why do you prefer one over the
>>> other? (eg. less hassle, less clicks to import csv to common GIS softwares)
>>>
>>> If I am to recommend to ordinary people a free conversion utility, which
>>> one? (my 2 preferred utility have different csv format)
>>>
>>> If i use "gpsbabel's" generic (Comma separated values) option (eg. kml
>>> to csv conversion)---> gpsbabel -w -i kml -f filename.kml -o csv -F
>>> filename.csv
>>> csv will be in this order---> lat,long,name
>>>
>>> If i use another easy-to-use/free/multi-platform "KMLCSV" (from
>>> http://choonchernlim.com/kmlcsv/ )
>>> kml to csv conversion will give you---> long,lat,name
>>>
>>> KMLCSV is very easy to use and allows ordinary people to view the POI's
>>> on built-in google maps for quick verification. easy to install, easy to
>>> distribute, virtually idiot-proof.
>>>
>>> GPSBabel is universal, has gui and  command line, but has too many
>>> option-buttons that can be confusing for ordinary user.
>>>
>>> or is there a way gpsbabel can convert (kml to csv) or (osm to csv) in
>>> long,lat,name csv format?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Rally
>>>
>>> ___
>>> talk-ph mailing list
>>> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> website administrator:
> - www.waypoints.ph
> - reeflife.eppgarcia.com
>
> PADI Divemaster #491048
>
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[talk-ph] recommended csv format

[Rally de Leon]

Dear all,

Which is the more common / preferred format for csv
lat,long,name or long,lat,name? and why do you prefer one over the other?
(eg. less hassle, less clicks to import csv to common GIS softwares)

If I am to recommend to ordinary people a free conversion utility, which
one? (my 2 preferred utility have different csv format)

If i use "gpsbabel's" generic (Comma separated values) option (eg. kml to
csv conversion)---> gpsbabel -w -i kml -f filename.kml -o csv -F
filename.csv
csv will be in this order---> lat,long,name

If i use another easy-to-use/free/multi-platform "KMLCSV" (from
http://choonchernlim.com/kmlcsv/ )
kml to csv conversion will give you---> long,lat,name

KMLCSV is very easy to use and allows ordinary people to view the POI's on
built-in google maps for quick verification. easy to install, easy to
distribute, virtually idiot-proof.

GPSBabel is universal, has gui and  command line, but has too many
option-buttons that can be confusing for ordinary user.

or is there a way gpsbabel can convert (kml to csv) or (osm to csv) in
long,lat,name csv format?

Thanks,
Rally
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Re: [talk-ph] New imagery from Bing 2013-09

[Rally de Leon]

About a week ago, the cloud cover on bing in Antipolo and Taytay was
finally gone (after years of waiting). busy retracing :-)

(images were estimated taken 2012)


On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 9:34 PM, maning sambale
wrote:

>
> http://www.bing.com/blogs/site_blogs/b/maps/archive/2013/09/06/bing-maps-publishes-13-million-square-kilometers-of-imagery.aspx
>
> Check your areas, report them here.
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> --
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Yet another WebGL 3-D OSM map

[Rally de Leon]

nice. renders a lot faster than F4

the thing I observed though while viewing UP Los Banos,
I tried searching for a Jollibee. The first in line search result gave
me a Jollibee nearest my house :-) So I guess they are tracking my IP
address.

I clicked that Jollibee in Taytay, which led me to discover that it assigns
a generic height ot the building for as long as you tag the polygon
building=*

It references its search result's "address" to nearest "place tag" whether
its a place=neighbourhood or place=village


On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 12:25 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> Here is another WebGL-based 3-D OSM map:
> http://city.informatik.uni-bremen.de/map/
>
> It doesn't render building shapes as good as OSM2World or F4 Map (all
> building parts are only drawn as prisms), but you can rotate and tilt the
> map quite smoothly using the right mouse button.
>
> Here's New York City's Empire State Building:
> http://city.informatik.uni-bremen.de/map/#scale=17,rot=350,tilt=65,lat=40.751,lon=-73.985
>
> Here's Paris' Notre Dame Cathedral:
> http://city.informatik.uni-bremen.de/map/#scale=18,rot=270,tilt=63,lat=48.852,lon=2.349
>
> Here's Kuala Lumpur's Petronas Towers:
> http://city.informatik.uni-bremen.de/map/#scale=18,rot=259,tilt=19,lat=3.158,lon=101.711
>
> Here's Dubai's Burj Khalifa:
> http://city.informatik.uni-bremen.de/map/#scale=17,rot=19,tilt=8,lat=25.197,lon=55.274
>
> And here's UP Los Baños:
> http://city.informatik.uni-bremen.de/map/#scale=17,rot=355,tilt=65,lat=14.161,lon=121.242
>
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[talk-ph] What is (and what is not) a Community Center?

[Rally de Leon]

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_centre says it can be owned by the
Community, Govt, Sponsored or Commercial.
for use on:

   - As the place for all-community celebrations at various occasions and
   traditions.


   - As the place for public meetings of the citizens on various issues.


   - As the place where politicians or other official leaders come to meet
   the citizens and ask for their opinions, support or votes ("election
   campaigning" in democracies, other kinds of requests in non-democracies).


   - As a place where community members meet each other socially.


   - As a place housing local clubs and volunteer activities.


   - As a place that community members (and sometimes others), can rent
   cheaply when a private family function or party is too big for their own
   home. For instance the non-church parts of weddings, funerals etc.


   - As a place that passes on and retells local history.


   - As a place where local non-government activities are organised.

*
OSM TAG: amenity=community_centre
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dcommunity_centre*


Is it safe to tag the following are Community Centers in PH?

- private "Events Place" (party places)
- multipurpose covered court for use in any barangay plaza's for sports,
campaining and emergency evac centers
- Convention / Exhibition Centers (eg. SMX)
- Clubhouse Meeting Rooms or Village Halls
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Re: [talk-ph] [waypointsdotph] Casili

[Rally de Leon]

Rem,
on google search, there's a certain Sitio Casili in Barangay San Raphael,
Rodriquez, Rizal

all you have to do is look for Brgy San Raphael. I believe it's at the far
end of M H del Pilar Ave (Main Road)

Rally


On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 10:47 AM, rem zamora  wrote:

> **
>
>
> Hi!
>
> Anyone knows where and how to go to Casili Elementary School in Montalban,
> Rizal.
>
> Appreciate it! Thanks! ;)
>
> RemZamora
> from my mobile
>
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>
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Re: [talk-ph] DPWH 2012 Road Data

[Rally de Leon]

On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 9:43 AM, maning sambale
wrote:

> Nice! The surface type (concrete, asphalt) is good data we can add in OSM,
> unfortunately, the disclaimer pdf has very strict copyright restrictions.
>
> Maning Sambale (mobile)
>
Maning,
it's obviously OSM basemap under the Baguio jpg right? in fact get a copies
as proof in the future. How does copyright works? Enlighten us. I
understand if they add new info on top of that OSM map, then they're
obligated to share the new info back to OSM? I guess the dpwh's copyright
restriction was just a copy&paste thing.

I say let DPWH use it more on their projects silently, so that we'll have
more proof..., and then it's easier to officially negotiate for sharing of
government data in the future (give & take arrangements). :-)
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Re: [talk-ph] DPWH 2012 Road Data

[Rally de Leon]

Clicking on Region IV-A on DPWH link:
http://www.dpwh.gov.ph/infrastructure/Road%20Data/2012%20Road%20Data%20for%20Ipad/region_iv_a.htm

Is it safe to classify Caylabne Road a trunk (an extension of Governor's
Drive)?
How about Naic-to-Mendez and the Tanza-Trece Martirez roads?

Weird, Aguinaldo Highway & Sta-Rosa-Tagaytay Road classified as secondary,
yet Calamba Road is arterial?? can't be

Declassify as trunk (back to primary) the pagsanjan-louisiana-lucban route?
(road is too narrow anyway)
Calauan-Nagcarlan route is just a minor road on OSM but looks like a trunk
going all the way to Tayabas on DPWH's map.


On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 6:59 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> You might find this interesting. DPWH has provided a site showing its
> database of what I presume are National Roads that are under its
> maintenance:
> http://www.dpwh.gov.ph/infrastructure/Road%20Data/2012%20Road%20Data%20for%20Ipad/index.htm
>
> What's even more interesting is that they are using screenshots of OSM
> maps as the basemap for several maps of roads in Metro Manila. For example,
> here's northern Quezon City:
> http://www.dpwh.gov.ph/infrastructure/Road%20Data/2012%20Road%20Data%20for%20Ipad/quezon_city_1st.htm
>
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Re: [talk-ph] OSM session at the National Remote Sensing Conference on May 29, 2013

[Rally de Leon]

Eugene,

Ok (it's a wednesday, meron attendees?), assist lang ako ha... taga-kanaw
ng kape ;-)
BTW what's this workshop all about?




On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 8:17 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:

> I'll see if I can take a leave from work for this.
>
> Rally, can you help out too?
>
> Others, would you be interested in helping out with this whole-day
> workshop?
>
>
> On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 6:09 PM, maning sambale  > wrote:
>
>> Dear everyone,
>>
>> We are invited to manage a workshop on OSM at the
>> PhilRSS National Remote Sensing Conference on May 29, 2013.
>>
>> Sorry for the very short as I got this email a few minutes ago.
>> I can't join due to some scheduled conflict.  If anyone wants to manage
>> this,
>> I'll put you in touch with the organizer.
>>
>> Draft website here:
>> http://philrss.noahsark.webfactional.com/nrsc2013/preconference
>>
>> --
>> cheers,
>> maning
>> --
>> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
>> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
>> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
>> --
>>
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Re: [talk-ph] How can ESSC work more with the OSM-PH community

[Rally de Leon]

Warning: Very Long Email (but you may want to read as there's a goody
offer at the bottom)

By the time you read this, it will probably be Fat Tuesday? What comes
next (in PH)?
the start of the Holy Week (start of fasting and/or abstinence) right?
so I have an excuse to be holy (a little) and give a reflection (like a segue)
on a topic started by maning on ESSC about "giving back to the community."

Sit back and I'll start my sermon: ;-)
There was this story about HUNGRY PEOPLE & LIMITED RESOURCES.
Remember the fantastic "5 loaves of bread and 2 fish that fed five
thousands men"?
(I don't read books, I just heard that story somewhere).
Well, it's supposed to be a story about the miracle of (literally)
multiplying bread.
Some argued and interpreted this miracle as not about "multiplying...",
but about "sharing..."

Not that it belittles the unlimited power of God to make something out
of nothing,
but I kinda prefer the latter interpretation (the power to touch the
hearts of people).
In that story, it's assumed that many brought bread, but had this hesitation to
share them out for fear of something (it can be anything). Probably no
one wanted
to be the first to take out bread from their bag to share to others;
for fear that nobody will follow... for fear "na pag-fiestahan tayo &
leave us empty".)

And all what these people needed was just some sort of catalyst; and
so the miracle
happened. (I think you know how the story ended up: everybody was able to eat,
and there was a surplus of twelve baskets of bread). Nice story di ba? :-)

That's what we need in our community, especially for people who think they
cannot help themselves (those who lack support). Somebody has to start
the ball rolling. Well, it's like magic, people follow people who try
to be generous
themselves. But we must show them how: by being generous ourself,
despite our own limited resources.

In pinoy lingo: "patak-patak tayo!" coz everybody has something to
offer to the community,
whether big or small, whether talent, skills, passion, time, money,
influence or connections.

What are we saying? All you lurkers out there... we know you also have
something
to share!!! ;-)

Ilabas ang SMB (mahaba-habang inuman!) ;-)
let's talk how we (ph community) can help each other out.

I'd like to follow the works of maning, eugene and the rest of many
volunteer contributors
for the wonderful effort who have given their time, skills & talent to
our community.

I don't have much (in fact it's a bad time for me), pero eto ang eto
ang "patak" ko:
a "carrot on a stick" in the form of a brand new "Raspberry Pi" which
I just received today
from Singapore (via a local distributor), to lure out some DIY'er out
there to share their talents
for fun...

--
What the hell is a Raspberry Pi?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi
http://www.raspberrypi.org/
http://www.raspberrypi.org/faqs
http://lifehacker.com/5976912/a-beginners-guide-to-diying-with-the-raspberry-pi

http://lifehacker.com/5978871/ten-more-awesome-projects-for-your-raspberry-pi
http://lifehacker.com/5929913/build-a-xbmc-media-center-with-a-35-raspberry-pi
http://lifehacker.com/5978098/turn-a-raspberry-pi-into-a-personal-vpn-for-secure-browsing-anywhere-you-go


I have with me a Rasberry Pi Model B (clear plastic case included).

Who wins it? It's up to you guys to decide. It doesn't matter who (a
person, group of persons or an org),
what matters is that can we start collaborating "to make something"
that will benefit
the "least of our brothers both in talents and resources", the none
techie teachers, students, researchers,
social workers, poor LGU's and NGO's, etc.

Let me put it this way: we don't want to just share good maps digital
osm map, as there are lots of alternatives
out there.

But let's change the game. Let's share the crowd-sourced data itself
back to people. We are not talking about raw data.

You don't want to give hungry people wheat to cook, do you? We give
them bread to initially address the hunger.

I say we give people lots of sampler data in form of GPX, CSV, or
spreadsheet readable osm data.
Naman!!! it will encourage "tamad." There will always be lazy &
freeloaders... doesn't matter.

Personal Wish List (add if you want something else):
I want to isolate all "name=Jollibee" or names with the word "hotel"
I want to isolate all "name=Mercury Drug" where branch= or
something like that
I want to isolate all "amenity=pharmacy" or "amenity=clinic"
I want all "amenity=bus_station" and "amenity=bus_stop"
I want to isolate all POI's with names containing "hospital"
Extract all POI's of bridges with no names
Extract all historical markers or whatever
etc, etc. then convert to gpx format, or to some ready-to-use
spreadsheet format (CSV format)
Let's start with POI's (single node and polygons)

What we need from you: develop and teach everybody here:
-simple fun techniques and/or methods (with or without the aids of any
free downloadable tools), easy enough t

Re: [talk-ph] Cebu health facilities

[Rally de Leon]

> An article that maybe of use:
> http://weait.com/content/whats-name
>
nice article. thanks.
i wish we can have our own PH-specific examples of something like this.

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Re: [talk-ph] Open Data Day 2013 on February 23

[Rally de Leon]

rem,
pwedeng-pwede. dun lang tayo sa isang corner para sa pulutan session...  ;-)



On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 1:21 PM, rem zamora  wrote:
> pwede ba sa pulutan session na lang pumunta? :)
>
> im not as techie as all of you. im better with mano-manong mapping :)
>
> rem
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Rally de Leon  wrote:
>>
>> I can bring fried-itik for pulutan :-)
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 12:42 PM, maning sambale
>>  wrote:
>> > Any idea where we can get some sponsorship for food? :)
>> >
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Rem Zamora
> Photojournalist
> +63-917-592-74-33
>

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Re: [talk-ph] Open Data Day 2013 on February 23

[Rally de Leon]

I can bring fried-itik for pulutan :-)

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 12:42 PM, maning sambale
 wrote:
> Any idea where we can get some sponsorship for food? :)
>

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Re: [talk-ph] Rivers drying out in Palawan ?

[Rally de Leon]

Totor,
Maybe it's just a rendering bug. This is noticeable on streets and
locations of "place=town" POI's.

I have a feeling that some layers are assumed by the renderer to be
matured edits on particular zoom levels, thus remain old, constant or
obsolete.

Eg.: Pandi-Angat Road which was converted to Primary Road about a week
ago, remained Secondary Road (orange color) at following zoom
level=12:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=14.9018&mlon=120.9869&zoom=12&layers=M
if I zoom-in by one step, the Pandi-Angat (primary) road turns to red
color --- the updated data.

Also notice the different location(s) of Santa Maria, Bulacan (town
name) in that vicinity at different zoom level. (old data is probably
the geographic center, the other one placed near poblacion)

But it looks like it's happening in reverse for rivers (palawan
example). The problem happens when we cross zoom=12 (or zoom=11?)

Cheers,
Rally

On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 9:21 PM, Totor  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I just traced some rivers in Palawan but they never appear on the map.
> It looks like other existing rivers also disappear when refreshing at higher 
> zoom levels :
>
> river visible : http://osm.org/go/4nTtWzb-
> river not visible anymore when you zoom in one step.
>
> The tags look ok to me, and this only seems to happen in Palawan (I could not 
> reproduce this in Cebu)
> I can not see what is wrong... (I tried to add the layer = -1 on one section, 
> but without effect)
> Is there an area covering/hiding only rivers ? Is this a rendering bug ?
>
> Can anybody have a look at this ?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Totor
>
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Re: [talk-ph] place=neighbourhood not rendered

[Rally de Leon]

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 11:38 AM, maning sambale
 wrote:
> What about those tagged as landuse=residential?
>
landuse=residential is supposed to work with tag place=neighbourhood,
this would be ideal for subdivisions, puroks, HOA and sitios with
known boundaries

but i think the combination of both tags has a rendering problem on Mapnik
see https://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/4191

This can be a turn-off for casual map users if the names of
subdivisions & puroks suddenly disappear on the map. Can we petition
to address the issue quickly?

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[talk-ph] place=neighbourhood not rendered

[Rally de Leon]

Hello all,

Earlier schadow1 (Ervin) posted under subject_line: "[OSMPH GPS:14] place= ?"
on osmph-gps-...@googlegroups.com regarding proper tag for "subdivision".

I took the opportunity (on my usual lengthy reply ;-) cc:talk-ph) to
propose/push for a more appropriate substitute tag
"place=neighborhood" for many inconsistently tagged node-places such
as subdivision, locality and hamlet by lots of users (including me).

This is just a follow-up. I already stated my case/proposal in my
reply, but I may also be wrong on this, (being lazy on extensive
research). I need to hear your reactions, votes and/or
counter-proposals, coz this is going to affect a lot of your edits,
including the potential none-rendering of many sub-village
named-places in PH on Mapnik.

The issue at the moment with nodes (and polygons tagged
landuse=residential) tagged with place=neighbourhood is no rendering
on Mapnik. https://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/4191

Other references:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Neighbourhood
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place

We have to admit that this seemingly simple place-classification is
still confusing for many, as evidenced on edits by old and new users
still using inconsistent tags. We must do something about it sooner or
later. So how do we proceed? Do we start promoting & educating on the
use of "neighbourhood" or status quo until rendering issue is
resolved?

Rally :-)

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Re: [talk-ph] [OSMPH GPS:17] Block and lot number

[Rally de Leon]

> Additional Questions:
> What if a Duplex is built on the same Block-Lot property? How do we
> indicate the Door No. or Apartment No. on addr:housenumber?
>
> What if there's a"building name" on a property that already have an
> established Street_No or House_No?
> addr:housename that can be combined with addr:housenumber. But where
> where do we put the Unit No. or Floor No.?

oops, disregard my last questions: there's already
addr:door
addr:unit
addr:unit

(why am i so lazy in scrolling down the wiki? i really need an OSM
cheat sheet!) :-P

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Re: [talk-ph] [OSMPH GPS:17] Block and lot number

[Rally de Leon]

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 2:31 AM, schadow1  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> How do we indicate the block number and lot number of a certain node in OSM?
> I only know of addr:housenumber.

dear schadow1,
(long answer again --- i'm an advocate, hehe) :-)

addr:housenumber can be any alphanumeric combination, (and where
housenumber or streetnumber is not yet officially assigned by the LGU,
local assessor, project developer or Philpost)

+1 for addr:housenumber=B+[block_no] +[space] + L + [lot_no]
eg. addr:housenumber=B27 L8
not Block 27 Lot 8
not Blk 27 Lot 8
not Lot 8 Blk 27
not as customers would insist on writing them (else we delay pushing
for a standard/efficient address format law)

note:
B[x] L[x] saves a lot of character-spaces in paper/digital fill-up forms.
[Block] before [Lot] --> on physical delivery of mails & various
services, it's easier to locate, and sort mails belonging to the same
block.
Also, by observation: this [Block] [Lot] format is adapted already by
some real estate companies such as Sen. Villar's group of companies,
etc in their list of customer database, (which makes sense to me).
I'm more inclined to put the Phase_No of subdivision together with the
Subdivision Name (because it's actually a subdivision within a
subdivision (that's just my opinion)

Additional Questions:
What if a Duplex is built on the same Block-Lot property? How do we
indicate the Door No. or Apartment No. on addr:housenumber?

What if there's a"building name" on a property that already have an
established Street_No or House_No?
addr:housename that can be combined with addr:housenumber. But where
where do we put the Unit No. or Floor No.? I believe in the USA, govt
assigns a unique APT# (for any residential unit in a particular
zipcode)

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Re: [talk-ph] [OSMPH GPS:14] place= ?

[Rally de Leon]

Can we discuss this thoroughly, and settle this once for all? :-)

here is my opinion on this:

-1 for use of hamlet on subdivisions/gated community
reason: hamlet is defined as smaller rural community typically with
some 100 inhabitants
proposal: drop the use of hamlet, since even the mkgmap (compiler)
recognize hamlet as a small town

-1 for use of locality on subdivisions/gated community
reason: locality is reserved for unpopulated named place
proposal: let's use locality for (none-sitio/none purok) rural name of
an areas with no defined boundary

-1 for place=subdivision
reason: not generally used in osm. the term is too general (there are
residential, industrial and agricultural subdivisions) it doesn't even
apply to large condominium complex

+1 place=village ---> exclusively for name of "barangay" only
reason: we have been doing this already in PH mapping;
it follows the OSM heirarchy city>town>village>neigborhood

+1 place=suburb or place=locality for Districts in a City (eg. Cubao)
- those places with no definite boundaries

+1 place=farm for well established farmland/industrial
farming/plantations/hacienda in excess of 1 hectare


+1 place=neighbourhood ---> all other places that are normally smaller
than a barangay: gated community, subdivisions, large townhouse
projects, multi-buildings condo complex, purok, sitio, phase (of a
very large subdivision)

Reason1: Neigbourhood is defined as a named part of a place=village, a
place=town or a place=city. Smaller than place=suburb. (which is a
good approximate in PH setting.)
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place

Reason2: there are subdivisions larger than a barangay; subdivision
located in 2 or more town boundaries; subdivisions=one whole barangay;
large rural sitio that became smaller (portion was bought & converted
to a large subdivision); 1 sitio=1 purok; registered & unregistered
HOA (eg. neigborhood assoc informal settlers); HOA within a
residential subdivision; 2-combined Phases of Subd into 1 HOA;
townhouse project within a subdivision; etc. etc. etc.

While if we use 'neighbourhood' for all the above complicated
combinations, we simplify things for novice mappers, mail messengers,
and the general public; those who may want to filter/extract address
data from OSM; it also addresses rendering issues of places on maps of
existing Apps.

Why is "neighborhood' (neighbourhood) so important?
1.Because in PH, (AFAIK) there is no existing law or standard followed
in naming roads, thus...
2.There are some "duplicate street names" within the same town or barangay.
3.There are countless addresses in PH that does not have a 'street
names', solely relying on 'neigborhood' info
4.We still use the obsolete 4-digit zipcode for an entire town in most
areas in PH (which just make town_name redundant).
5.The only way to make a street_name unique, is to specify the name of
the 'neigbourhood', not just the barangay.


Example of a typical (none-building) Address in PH:
Address1:  3 Mabolo St.
Address2:  Purok 2,  Barangay San Juan
Taytay, Rizal 1920

Address1: [Street No./Block#-Lot# / Kilometer Marker] [Street / Highway]
Address2: [Neighbourhood] + [Barangay Name]
[City/Town] + [Province Name]
Zip Code

where: neigbourhood = Subdivision&Phase# / Purok / Sitio / Gated
Community / HomeOwners Assoc, etc

Take Note: OSM doesn't have provision for PH's
subd/purok,sitio,HOA,gated community, because of the ambiguous
hierarchy of these places mentioned above.
"place=neighbourhood", maybe the closest and most appropriate tag for
PH's equivalent of "Address2" including barangay name.

I happen to own a small messengerial business, and this issue of
'wrong or incomplete address' format supplied by the ignorant
customers themselves is very costly for the entire mail-delivery
industry, resulting in high number of late deliveries,
return-to-sender; waste of precious fuel and man-hours.

Maybe thru OSM, fellow mappers can help us start to sort out,
simplify, propose for standardized PH Address System (thru your
congressmen). It will be easier/simpler/faster for third parties to
extract/filter out address data &/or automatically correct wrong
format by matching them with an official database of correct
addresses.

Thank you very much & mabuhay!

Rally :-)

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 9:53 PM, schadow1  wrote:
> I've been mapping subdivisions and thought that the place handler for such
> is "subdivision" as i am seeing several mappers using it. However i've seen
> at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place that there is no such place.
>
> I'm seeing recent edits of manning that he uses "hamlet" but that is only
> for a place with 100-200 in a rural location. It is appropriate to use
> village on this? thank you
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Planned import: 7-Eleven Branch data

[Rally de Leon]

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 11:30 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar  wrote:
> For branch=* vs. name:branch=*, there's already a proposal to use the
> plain branch=* key name: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:branch
>
> As for ref=*, while this is normally added to highways, ref=* can be
> used for anything where it makes sense such as ID numbers and
> reference codes. See this: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref
>

haha, stupid me. How many lazy idiots like me would just actually
google "osm tag branch" and get nothing,
instead of googling "openstreetmap tag branch" or using the search bar
in the osm wiki?

I always thought I belong to a special group that needs a book titled
"searching osm keys for dummies".
GMG GMG :-D

Enough for my interruption. Carry on.

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Re: [talk-ph] Planned import: 7-Eleven Branch data

[Rally de Leon]

(I think this was asked before already)

In case the import pushes through, what tag should osmph formally
adapt for the branch name for those chain-establishments, "branch" or
"name:branch"?
(eg. Banks, Pharmacies, Fastfood Chains, 24/7 Convenience Stores, Gas
Stations, Utility Companies)

I think an issue was raised before, that tag "branch" was already in
use somewhere in Europe to refer to a "transportation line/route" or
something (can't remember). I don't know if it was adapted or dropped.
So to prevent future conflict, I already used "name:branch" in some of
my edits.

Although I'm in favor of plain "branch" since it's easier to type, but
we should make a formal proposal/inquiry with the other communities
(especially if we have a substantial number of establishment-branches
in PH to tag)

Regarding "ref="  for use in connection with 7-Eleven branches, you'll
notice that the banks also uses branch codes. I would love to have
this info on osm if allowed (since it may be internal info to the
bank). Sometimes, it can be useful when tracking your payments if
somebody ask you to deposit an amount to a particular bank, given only
an account number and a name. Some branch-name tend to be very long
(eg. Taytay-Manila East Road), compared to a branch code which is
normally a 3 or 4 digit numeric. who knows if someday, somebody can
find useful search apps for this.

But I'm more inclined to use another tag (other than "ref") since it's
already used on "highway" (although it's a line, not a node). Can this
complicate things when filtering info for existing mobile apps (eg.
unpredictable rendering)? what if we just use "branch_code" or
"branch:code" (more specific, but longer to type). some may say it has
no practical use to majority of the map users, but so is the ICAO (4
letter alphanumeric code for airports) :-)

+1 for branch name and +1 for branch codes for all chain establishments

I suggest we ask permission from these companies (for the masterlist &
its periodic updates). It is in their best interest that all their
branches become searchable via internet, particularly when mobile
using osm maps.


On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 8:03 PM, ianlopez  wrote:
> I'm planning to import location data of 7-Eleven branches nationwide in the
> coming weeks. Based on a file that I found on the Internet Archive Wayback
> machine, the location master containing the name of its branches and
> location ID's (and other unrelated data)[0] is (presumably) licensed under
> CC BY 3.0 PH. However, I'm not sure of its current status. It would be best
> if we send an email to Philippines Seven Corporation regarding this matter.
>
> If imported, a typical 7-Eleven branch will have the following tags:
>
> name=7-Eleven
> shop=convenience
> opening_hours=24/7
> branch=(name of branch in the location master)
> ref=(location ID of branch)
> source=(to be discussed)
>
> [0] http://web.archive.org/web/20100612175639/http://van.7-eleven.com.ph/
>
> Tony Montana: Me, I want what's coming to me.
> Manny Ribera: Oh, well what's coming to you?
> Tony Montana: The world, chico, and everything in it.
> -
> Blog: http://ianlopez1115.wordpress.com/
> OpenStreetMap/Twitter: ianlopez1115
> Facebook: ian.lopez
>
>
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Pirate Map!

[Rally de Leon]

coolness. even have a folded-map look effect. :-)

On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar  wrote:
> Very cool! http://tiles.mapbox.com/aj/map/Sketchy2
>
> This was created by someone at MapBox to show off new features in the
> Mapnik rendering tool.
>
> The map only goes to zoom level 6 though, and I think it uses only the
> public domain Natural Earth dataset and no OSM data.
>
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[talk-ph] Three Hundred Years of Philippine Maps 1598-1898 (Metropolitan Museum)

[Rally de Leon]

Philippine Maps Exhibit @ Metropolitan Museum Manila
http://www.musicalplayphilippines.com/2012/06/philippine-maps-exhibit-metropolitan.html
http://www.metmuseum.ph/ongoingexhibitions.php

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Re: [talk-ph] Possible Scarborough Shoal edit war?

[Rally de Leon]

IMHO... :-)

I don't know how it looks like but I assume there is no land (no local
residents) out there, only fishermen from different countries (but
mostly from PH). Will the 'Ground Rule' apply here?

There's no question it's now a disputed territory (in the news). But
historically, who is the first mapper who claimed and gave Scarborough
Shoal a "local name"? I don't know who, but I really hope it's us ;-)
So the best we can do for PH is to make sure Panatag Shoal / Bajo de
Masinloc names come first before Huang Yan on the LIST; and as long as
by default, it remains "Scarborough". And we ensure that Huang Yan's
name doesn't appear on osm "english format" maps (so that we don't get
irritated). Let them Chinese call it Huang Yan (in chinese characters)
in their own map (for all we care), so that they don't get irritated
as well. Everybody happy! :-)

Because I don't think this dispute will go away in a few years or
decade, and we don't want to give vandals/anarchists a reason to come
in and give trouble to a relatively neutral & peaceful OSM community.
Let the politicians, the military & the activists do their thing and
fight it out there. We as Filipino citizens (not as openstreetmap
mappers) will support our claim.

I suggest to politely advise both Filipino & Chinese openstreetmap
user/editors to remove (and refrain from putting) comments with
'declaration of territorial claims'; only statement of facts
pertaining to the claim/s by any party. Links may be permitted to any
wiki with regards to the dispute.

BTW, is it the same case for us, as we have not officially dropped our
claim to Sabah or did we? (Ground Rule may apply here). Can we or
should we do the same on Sabah? We will probably lose (in Sabah on
historical basis / practical basis), just as China will probably lose
to us anyway if we finally succeed to bring the issue to court.



On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 9:39 AM, ianlopez  wrote:
>
> Re:"adopt the tag or just be firm in asserting our claim to panatag shoal and 
> tag it as PH territory"
>
> I believe that we should adopt the On the Ground Rule [1] on this one. I'm 
> not sure about the relevant laws of the other claimants but we have a law 
> stating that Scarborough is part of Philippine territory[2].
>
> I just hope that the current edit war won't spread to the Kalayaan Group of 
> Islands. If that happens, then it won't be long before we take this matter to 
> the Data Working Group.
>
>
> [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputes#On_the_Ground_Rule
> [2] Section 2b, Republic Act 9522
>
> --
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 1:00 AM SGT Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:
>
>>The saga continues...
>>
>>A new, presumably, Chinese user did his first edit:
>>http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/11792728
>>
>>The comment on the changeset is (translated using Google): "Huangyan
>>Island is Chinese territory"
>>
>>
>>On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 1:52 PM, tutubi
>> wrote:
>>> question: should we adopt the tag or just be firm in asserting our claim to 
>>> panatag shoal and tag it as PH territory?
>>>
>>> :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my Nokia 5110, made in Finland!
>>>
>>> On Jun 4, 2012, at 10:12 AM, maning sambale  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Mike Collinson added the tag is_in:country=disputed_territory when he
>>> imported GNS names [0], should we add this (or a modified version) in
>>> Scarborough?
>>>
>>> [0] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/302105933
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 7:35 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar  
>>> wrote:
 Well, there's no edit war going on yet, but there's someone from China
 who did the following changesets:

 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/11769249
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/11769301

 The first changeset removed the Philippine boundary enclosing the
 shoal previously set by Ian Lopez, and changed default name of the
 shoal itself to Chinese: "黄岩岛" (which means "Huangyan Island"). The
 second changeset added the following tag: note="菲佣去死!!", which
 Google translate doesn't seem to do a good job of translating but
 seems to be an insult to Filipina maids, I think. :-/

 Anyway, I've fixed the name tagging of the shoal so that the default
 name is "Scarborough Shoal", which is the neutral international name.
 The complete name tags are the following:

 INTERNATIONAL:
 name:en = Scarborough Shoal
 alt_name = Scarborough Reef

 CHINESE:
 name:en-CN = Huangyan Island
 name:zh = 黄岩岛
 name:zh_pinyin = Huángyán Dǎo

 PHILIPPINE:
 name:en-PH = Panatag Shoal
 alt_name:en-PH = Bajo de Masinloc
 name:tl = Kulumpol ng Panatag
 alt_name:tl = Bajo de Masinloc
 name:es = Bajo de Masinloc

 VIETNAMESE:
 name:vi = Bãi cạn Scarborough
 alt_name:vi = Đảo Hoàng Nham
>>
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Re: [talk-ph] Wiki Loves Monuments needs some mapping help

[Rally de Leon]

I've tried editing just now and it looks like GoogleDoc approach is
better, considering that any newbie can point-and-click on either OSM
or Google Map,
press permalink, then cut & paste the lat long info into the
GoogleDocs spreadsheet. The GoogleMap & OSM links are auto-generated.
Coolness :-)

All can see the progress of the project immediately. We can fill-up
the address information.

Then maybe, we can reinsert the crowd-sourced address data gathered
here back to OSM via the available map editors.

By then, the unmapped POI's from the list can be hunted down on field
by mappers using GPS; then put the 'source' as gps or mapper. We
finish the project early...

We should have done this a long time a go :-)

On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 11:23 AM, Ed Garcia  wrote:
> Guys,
>
> My two centavos worth ...
>
> would it not be easier if we just place a special tag on such POIs on OSM
> (maybe NCCA=yes or some other tag) then harvest them all via OSMosis later?
> That way, it eliminates transcribing errors.
>
> :>) ed
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 10:59 AM, maning sambale
>  wrote:
>>
>> I added a few.  Will add more later.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 1:20 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar 
>> wrote:
>> > By the way, as a test, I've started adding some coordinates obtained
>> > from OSM. Check out some of the sites in Baguio and Ilocos Norte in
>> > the list.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Apr 11, 2012 at 1:01 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar 
>> > wrote:
>> >> Hi guys,
>> >>
>> >> I have created a public spreadsheet for the WLM sites:
>> >>
>> >> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtokxpcNebAxdGJSMFRqX3F5Q3pZd2JpTGxJYThlOGc
>> >>
>> >> It seems crowdsourcing this task is the way to go and using the usual
>> >> geo-research methodologies (OSM, Google, Panoramio, Wikimapia,
>> >> WaypointsDotPH, etc.)
>> >>
>> >> Eugene
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 8:15 PM, Ed Garcia  wrote:
>> >>> Nice! That's a very good tip.  Thanks Jim
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Jim Morgan  wrote:
>> 
>>  Ed Garcia wrote, On Tuesday, 10 April, 2012 02:37 PM:
>>  > Anyway, I have been locating many of these sites lately by using
>>  > combined panoramio, google earth, wikimapia.  Latest ones are some
>>  > POIs in
>>  > Cagayan Valley.  Most often, I see some of these monuments tagged
>>  > in
>>  > panoramio photos that are linked to GE.
>> 
>>  Google Maps (not Earth) has a feature where you can right click on
>>  any
>>  point on the map, and select "What's Here?". That puts a large green
>>  arrow
>>  on the map. If you then click on the arrow it will pop up the
>>  co-ordinates
>>  (in decimal as well as degrees, minutes, seconds). Thought that was
>>  quite
>>  handy. And also, as you're placing the arrow yourself, then you're
>>  not
>>  stealing any info from the Google database, so I imagine you can use
>>  this
>>  information unrestricted.
>> 
>>  Jim
>> 
>>  --
>> 
>>    datalude: information security
>>    e: j...@datalude.com
>>    Philippines: +63 2 403 1311 / mob: +63 917 849 3939
>>    Hong Kong: +852 6489 4132
>>    w: http://www.datalude.com/
>> 
>>  ___
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>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> website administrator:
>> >>> - www.waypoints.ph
>> >>> - reeflife.eppgarcia.com
>> >>>
>> >>> PADI Divemaster #491048
>> >>>
>> >
>> > ___
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>> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> cheers,
>> maning
>> --
>> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
>> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
>> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
>> --
>>
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>
>
>
>
> --
> website administrator:
> - www.waypoints.ph
> - reeflife.eppgarcia.com
>
> PADI Divemaster #491048
>
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Re: [talk-ph] OSM in watercolor!

[Rally de Leon]

So Nice! I want a printed copy on my T-shirt :-)

On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 2:26 PM, maning sambale
 wrote:
> Nice!!
>
> http://maps.stamen.com/#watercolor/12/14.6386/121.1492
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> --
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Garmin map icon for convenience stores

[Rally de Leon]

hehe, i was the one who made this personal old icon inspired by
Malsingmap's 7-11 icon to represent Convenience Store.

the decision was based on the limitation by Garmin's assignments of
Hex Codes to represent/differentiate the stores where we buy our
supplies:
1. Convenience Store (referring to 24-hour convenience store found in
Gas Stations in USA. that's what Garmin had in mind)
2. Generic Market/Grocery (local grocery or foodmarts, wetmarket,
talipapa, small chinese merchandisers, sari-sari store that sells
'tingi-tingi' products)
3. Supermarket (which i decided to assign to a typical hypermarket:
huge grocery stores that also sells school supplies, apparel &
appliances)
4. Mall (a complex composed of many stores)
5. Department Store (one-stop shop for apparel/appliance/homedecor/etc
minus the groceries)

Most casual travelers (not the adventurous ones) look for 24-hour
convenience store with familiar products/suppliers and other stuffs
such as 
cellphoneloads/newspaper/icecubes/batteries/cupnoodles/bottledwater/energydrink/hotcoffee/toiletries,
and has an ability to break larger bills anytime of day (eg.
7-Eleven/Ministop/Mighteemart etc).

I needed an intuitive common icon to represent these multi-brand
24-hour convenience stores in PH, that can fit on 16x16 pixels using
basic 256colors - since my target device was a low-res outdoor Garmin
276c 60c/76c. And I also needed to differentiate these from the
countless "daytime sari-sari stores" to reduce clutter during search.

Malsingmap exclusively used 7-11 icon for convenience store. (I'm no
artist) but as a compromise, I just opted to split the icon with two
biggest brands 7-11 & Ministop to associate with a 24hour convenience
store. I then used Garmin's default "grocery cart" icon to represent a
regular talipapa/sari-sari store.This personal TYP file was adapted by
maning when I merged my custom settings with osmphgarmin.

We can always replace a 24hour convenience store by a 'basket' icon or
something. But personally, I tend associate "basket" with "market"
(that's just me), thus used this annoying 7-11/Ministop icon. :-) But
it does the job to quickly tell my brain that it's a
24hour-sari-sari-tourist-friendly store (coz I'd rather search
'visually' when looking for something on low-res none-touchscreen gps
devices than use a joystick to type in each letter in the searchbox).

BTW in most nuvi, you don't even need an icon to search for things
because of excellent searchbox & oncreen keyboard..You can customize
icon with unlimited colors and up to 24x24pixel icon, and all icons
are invisible on the map (no clutter) unless you individually search
for it. In the newer Nuvi models such as 2750, there's totally no need
for custom icons (doesn't show).

Anyway, my idea may already be obsolete. Any new intuitive icon design
is welcome. It's actually easy to customize to improve the TYP file,
and I can teach those not familiar...

Rally :-)


On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 12:42 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar  wrote:
> <>
>
>> This is an osmph garmin map issue, we used the generic "7-11" icons
>> for shop=grocer.  Suggestions for a better icon style welcome.
>>> on another note, since i use my unit zoomed in to reveal POIs, there's this
>>> annoying 7-Eleven
>>> icon that indicates small convenience store that's actually Mini-stop. is
>>> this a Nuvi problem or a map
>>> problem?
>
> The current icon for convenience stores in our Garmin map is actually
> a 7-11 and Mini Stop hybrid. The top half represents 7-11 while the
> bottom is for Mini Stop (recognize the colors?)
>
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Re: [talk-ph] BGC C-5 flyover

[Rally de Leon]

What's the name of this ramp again?
(from old news)
http://balita.ph/2010/11/26/300-m-flyover-project-soon-to-rise-in-bonifacio-global-city-taguig/

I think i got the gps track of this BGC-C5 North Entry Ramp/Flyover
last March 14

I don't recommended (this yet) if you are in a rush coming from
Buendia going to C5. That time I had a family emergency call, and
tried my luck on this new flyover instead of using Kalayaan Ave route.
I got stuck up in traffic with the many road repairs & stoplights
along 32nd street.



On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 12:10 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar  wrote:
> maning,
>
> Rally actually beat you to it by about a day:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/11030523
>
> :)
>
> On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 10:22 AM, maning sambale
>  wrote:
>> Confirmed.
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/maning/traces/1197920
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/11036928
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 10:39 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar  
>> wrote:
>>> Yup, I've confirmed that this flyover is now open. I've edited OSM to
>>> indicate such: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/10967343
>>>
>>> The flyover shape is just estimated. Somebody should get GPS track to
>>> confirm. :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 11:14 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar  
>>> wrote:
 I neglected to confirm today if the flyover is passable now, but I can
 confirm that the flyover is indeed as good as finished as of Thursday
 night. It's been marked as highway=construction in OSM for months now.


 On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 10:10 AM, tutubi
  wrote:
> is this really open? I can pass there tonight as I sometimes take a detour
> to BGC via a circuitous route to kalayaan
> to avoid EDSA traffic to QC
>
> http://www.philstar.com/nation/article.aspx?publicationsubcategoryid=200&articleid=785069
>>>
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Lightmap from the University of Heidelberg

[Rally de Leon]

Can we do a project something like this, but shows Bus & PUJ routes? :-)
(from LTFRB official list)


On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 8:01 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar  wrote:
> Here's a map that shows which streets and roads have street lights
> (and tagged with lit=yes):
>
> http://lightmap.uni-hd.de/?c=121.02380275726318,14.547862464537904&z=14
>
> There's been a map like this in the past but this latest one was done
> by the people from the University of Heidelberg and loads much faster.
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Proposal to delete the imagery coverage outlines from the OSM database

[Rally de Leon]

+1

On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 6:09 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar  wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I propose to delete the imagery coverage outlines that are currently
> in the OSM database (most are tagged with the special
> "outline=imagery" tag). Since we already have an imagery coverage
> map[1], I think that there's no longer any need to retain these
> outlines in the database, especially since they clutter up editing,
> are inadvertently joined to streets and roads by users, and they don't
> correspond to anything real on the ground and therefore do not really
> belong in the database in the first place..
>
> If there's new imagery, we just trace the outlines and then I can take
> them and merge them into the coverage map.
>
> What do you think?
>
> [1] http://forge.codedgraphic.com/osm/imagery_coverage/
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Some results of the new Bing imagery

[Rally de Leon]

tutubi,

IMHO, if a road is assigned as oneway in most of day time (eg. 7am to
7pm, entire day-time, business hours, most of rush hours), may be we
should tag it as ONEWAY.

It's better to err on the safe side, since it's expensive to get
'oneway traffic violation'. It is much safer for auto-routing gadgets
and paper maps to show a more conservative/safe routes. It's up to the
driver on field to decide if there is an exception to that oneway
rule.

At night, isn't it that some local resident drivers in the provinces
tend to break oneway rules (and traffic lights) anyway because there
are no enforcers? it's free-for-all during night time :-)


On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 9:17 AM, tutubi
 wrote:
>
> on Vigan and other places
> there are many streets (alternating) there that are one-way from 7am to
> 7pm...i did not tag them as one way
> for now. will also add the street names later
>
> I could use that map for Tuguegarao and Southern Leyte, will be there in a
> few weeks
>
> also, kudos to the mappers of Cebu and Davao City. very much improved. was
> in cebu last week, and davao
> last year (and will be back in a few weeks)
>
> --
> ---
> I explore, therefore I blog.
>
> http://www.backpackingphilippines.com
> "I don't need a map! I have the GPS. Never need a map again, thank you"
> - Lost Van on Route 66, Radiator Springs (Cars)
>
> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> A lot of you have started tracing using the new Bing imagery and I'd
>> like to highlight some of them:
>>
>> 1. Tuguegarao, Cagayan: http://osm.org/go/42mDB1p
>> 2. Ilagan, Isabela: http://osm.org/go/42iZ4XQ
>> 3. Alicia, Isabela: http://osm.org/go/4z3R2CIX- (as well as nearby towns)
>> 4. Vigan, Ilocos Sur: http://osm.org/go/42LX2zv8-
>> 5. Bolinao, Pangasinan: http://osm.org/go/4zcwXHm7- (as well as nearby
>> towns)
>> 6. Lucena, Quezon: http://osm.org/go/4y17mj1b-
>> 7. Maasin, Southern Leyte: http://osm.org/go/4tS0xCUw-- (and nearby towns)
>> 8. Danao, Cebu: http://osm.org/go/4tRfHSQK- (and other towns along the
>> eastern coast of Cebu)
>> 9. Busuanga Island, Palawan: http://osm.org/go/4yM4J0z-
>> 10. General Santos City: http://osm.org/go/4sJFTph
>> 11. Maitum, Sarangani: http://osm.org/go/4sDBfppc-
>> 12. Glan, Sarangani: http://osm.org/go/4sIQwJYB-
>> 13. Surigao, Surigao del Norte: http://osm.org/go/4tNezaiu-
>> 14. eastern half of Camiguin: http://osm.org/go/4tGKqEr
>>
>> Keep up the good work guys! We have barely scratched the potential of
>> the new Bing imagery but already we have very nice new places mapped!
>> :-)
>>
>> If you want to see where else you can start tracing, check out our
>> Imagery Coverage Map:
>> http://forge.codedgraphic.com/osm/imagery_coverage/
>>
>> As always, please be careful when tracing especially if you have never
>> been to the place.
>>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Forbidden city image of the week

[Rally de Leon]

Maybe it's aligned to a particular Magnetic North at the time of
construction?? :-)

On Tuesday, January 31, 2012, maning sambale 
wrote:
> Interesting, i always thought the forbidden city is oriented on a perfect
north-south direction.  Any idea why its "tilted" in osm?
>
>
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Forbidden_city_2012-01_cloudmade-fresh.png
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[talk-ph] MMDA opens 33 new Christmas lanes

[Rally de Leon]

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/240737/news/nation/mmda-opens-33-new-christmas-lanes

http://www.mmda.gov.ph/Mabuhay-Lanes.html
For Private Vehicles from North to South:


>From McArthur Highway

Right turn to Samson Road, C-4/Letre, R-10, A. Bonifacio, Roxas
Blvd., to destination.


>From North Luzon Expressway:

Exit at Mindanao Avenue Access Ramp, right at Mindanao Ave., left
at Congressional, right at Tandang Sora crossing Commonwealth flyover,
Katipunan Avenue, C-5, to destination.

Exit at Mindanao Ave., Access Ramp, right at Mindanao Ave., left
at North Avenue, QMC, right at Kalayaan, left at Kamias rd. right at
Anonas, left at Aurora Blvd., right at Katipunan Avenue, C-5, to
destination.

Exit at Mindanao Ave., Access Ramp, right at Mindanao Ave., left
at North Avenue, QMC, right at Kalayaan, left at Kamias rd. right at
Anonas, left at Chico St., straight to Xavierville, right at C-5, to
destination.

Straight at A. Bonifacio Ave, left at C-3, right at Banawe, left
at E. Rodriguez, right at Araneta Ave., right at Aurora Blvd., right
at Magsaysay Blvd., left at Nagtahan - P. Quirino Ave., left at South
Super Highway to destination.

Straight at A. Bonifacio Ave, take Mayon Ave. to Welcome Rotunda,
then to destination.

Straight at A. Bonifacio, take Mayon Ave., right at Dapitan St. or
P. Florentino, left at A. Maceda, right at F. Fajardo, left at V.G.
Cruz, right at Lardizabal, left at Dela Fuente, right at R. Magsaysay
Blvd., Nagtahan to P. Quirino, left at South Super Highway to
destination.


>From Epifanio Delos Santos Avenue (EDSA):

Turn right at West Ave., right at Quezon Ave., U-turn near
Magbanua, right at Timog, right at T. Morato, right at E. Rodriguez,
left at Gilmore, right at N. Domingo, left at Pinaglabanan, right at
P. Guevarra, left at L. Mencias, right at Shaw Blvd., left at Nueve de
Pebrero, Maysilo, Francisco, Mandaluyong Makati Bridge to destination.

Turn right at West Ave., right at Quezon Ave., U-turn near
Magbanua, right Sct. Reyes, take Umbel Bridge, left at Dona Rodriguez,
right at N. Domingo, left at Pinaglabanan, right at P. Guevarra, left
at L. Mencias, right at Shaw Blvd., left at Nueve de Pebrero, Maysilo,
Francisco, Mandaluyong Makati Bridge to destination.

Turn right at West Ave., right to Del Monte Ave., left at Sto.
Domingo or Biak na Bato, right at Amoranto, left at Banawe or D.
Tuazon, right at Maria Clara or Dapitan to destination.

Turn right at Mo. Ignacia, left at Timog Ave., right at T. Morato,
right at E. Rodriguez, left at Gilmore, right at N. Domingo, left at
Pinaglabanan, right at P. Guevarra, right at Shaw Blvd., left at Nueve
de Pebrero, Maysilo, Francisco, Mandaluyong Makati Bridge to
destination.

Turn right at Kamuning left at T. Morato, right at E. Rodriguez,
left at Gilmore, right at N. Domingo, left at Pinaglabanan, right at
P. Guevarra, right at Shaw Blvd., left at Nueve de Pebrero, Maysilo,
Francisco, Mandaluyong Makati Bridge to destination.

Turn right at Shaw Blvd. left at Nueve de Pebrero, Maysilo,
Francisco, Mandaluyong Makati Bridge to destination.

Turn right to Madison, right to Pinoeer past EDSA - Boni tunnel,
right to Pinatubo, left to Cordillera, left to Arayat, go down Nueve
de Pebrero, right to S. Laurel (one-way), left to Shaw Blvd., right to
Ideal, left to McColough, right to A. Mabini (one-way), left to Wilson
to San Juan area, then to destination.


>From Pasig Rosario to South Super Highway:

From Ortigas Ave. ext., take U-turn at Rosario Bridge, right at
Dr. Sixto Antonio Ave., right at Vargas bridge to C-5 to destination.

From Ortigas Ave. ext., take U-turn at Rosario Bridge, right at
Dr. Sixto Antonio Ave., right at Vargas bridge to Pasig Blvd., left at
Shaw Blvd., left at Pioneer, straight to EDSA - Boni bridge, right at
Barangka drive, then take Barangka - Estrella bridge to Makati area to
destination.

From Ortigas Ave. ext., take U-turn at Rosario Bridge, right at C.
Raymundo, Bagong Ilog to C-5 to destination.


>From Quezon City to Makati:

Take N. Domingo, left to Blumentritt - Kalentong, left at Manalo
St., left at Manalo St., right at Mariano St., right at L. Mencias,
right at Shaw Blvd., left at Nueve de Pebrero/Martinez, Maysilo, Sgt.
Bumatay or San Francisco Mandaluyong Makati Bridge or Barangka Drive
Estrella Bridge to destination.

From E. Rodriguez, left at Matimyas - Plaza Noli to Fajardo, left
at V.G. Cruz, right at Lardizabal, left at Dela Fuente, right at R.
Magsaysay Blvd., Nagtahan to P. Quirino, left at South Super Highway
to destination.


>From Mandaluyong to Makati:

From Shaw Blvd., right at Acacia Lane, right at F. Ortigas, left
at Boni Ave., Maysilo to destination.



For Private Vehicles from South to North:

>From Coastal Road Expressway:

Straight at Roxas blvd to R10 right at C4, Samson road to destination.


>From South Luzon Expressway:

Exit to C-5, Katipunan, Tandang Sora Ave., U-turn at
Congre

Re: [talk-ph] Where exactly is Apalit Bridge?

[Rally de Leon]

got it thanks :-)

>> http://www.gmanews.tv/story/239379/regions/apalit-pampanga-bridge-collapses-as-three-dump-trucks-pass
> I think it's Colgante Bridge in our OSM map N14 56.351 E120 44.139.
>
>
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[talk-ph] Where exactly is Apalit Bridge?

[Rally de Leon]

Per latest OSM Map it's approx position is N14.92016 E120.76567

Per Roadguide (v1.25) N14.92016 E120.76567 points to Calumpit Bridge

Where is this collapsed bridge "...in Macabebe's Colgante village"
described by a certain YouScooper Bon Sunga?
http://www.gmanews.tv/story/239379/regions/apalit-pampanga-bridge-collapses-as-three-dump-trucks-pass

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Re: [talk-ph] osgeo-ph december 2011 meetup

[Rally de Leon]

"Who will attend: This meetup is very informal, open to anybody, you don't
need to be a GIS professional or anything..."

Ok I fall under the classification "anything" ...eerrr Amateur Mapper??

I'm not using any of the mentioned softwares, but at one point installed
and tried on my PC, yet failed and got stuck up in the middle of self-study
for the nth time (for lack of necessary prerequisite knowledge in database
management and/or programming languages). I'm still very much interested to
learn to use one, and I'm trying to decide which direction to go. Looking
for guidance from people in the industry, I'll try to sit-in and be
inspired, observe to see how it goes. I'll probably volunteer to serve
coffee/beer & snacks just to make myself useful :-)

Regards,
Rally

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 11:38 AM, maning sambale  wrote:

> OSGeo is an umbrella organization of many free and open source
> geospatial software (i. e. QGIS, GRASS, Mapserver, etc.) [0].  This is
> not an elite community and participation is open to everyone.  For a
> simple analogy I look at it as:
>
> OSM = open geo data
> OSGEO = open geo software
>
> We are also organizing local chapters (like osm-ph) to help spread the
> use of OSGEO software.  The group is very young and will take form
> depending on how the group wants it to be [1].  I am sharing the
> meetup invitation here because in many osgeo local communities, osm is
> an important project for them.
>
> As for your question on the target profile, I actually don't know. I'm
> still discovering who in the PH is using osgeo software.  I use many
> osgeo software (for work and for fun) hopefully this group can become
> a venue for users/developers in the PH to share skills.
>
> [0] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Main_Page
> [1] http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Philippines
>
> On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Rally de Leon  wrote:
> > Hi Maning,
> > my stupid questions (sorry for my long absence):
> >
> > what exactly is OSGEO-PH? Is this some sort of umbrella-org for
> > geo-professionals only, or just 'one-geek-level higher' than osmph? from
> the
> > sound of it, it's not for amateurs (my impression only).
> >
> > if any casual osmph member/mapper invites himself (crash-in by signing
> up in
> > the wiki) to a osgeo-ph chapter meeting, what exactly can he expect;
> > or will he find himself surrounded by geo-gods talking linux & all etc,
> > finding himself out of place, not be able to participate? ;-)
> >
> > what are the target (particular) profiles of attendees? if you know what
> I
> > mean (or if I know what I mean)? hehe, sorry for my ignorance.
> >
> > Rally
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 10:13 AM, maning sambale
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Inviting you to the OSGEO-PH Dec 2011 meetup.
> >>
> >> Details here:
> >> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Philippines/Chapter_Meeting_2011-12-03
> >>
> >> Perhaps one OSMer can present something about OSM-PH?
> >>
> >> Please confirm or add your name in the wiki if you're coming. Thanks.
> >>
> >> --
> >> cheers,
> >> maning
> >> --
> >> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> >> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> >> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> >> --
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
> >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> --
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Re: [talk-ph] osgeo-ph december 2011 meetup

[Rally de Leon]

Hi Maning,
my stupid questions (sorry for my long absence):

what exactly is OSGEO-PH? Is this some sort of umbrella-org for
geo-professionals only, or just 'one-geek-level higher' than osmph? from
the sound of it, it's not for amateurs (my impression only).

if any casual osmph member/mapper invites himself (crash-in by signing up
in the wiki) to a osgeo-ph chapter meeting, what exactly can he expect;
or will he find himself surrounded by geo-gods talking linux & all etc,
finding himself out of place, not be able to participate? ;-)

what are the target (particular) profiles of attendees? if you know what I
mean (or if I know what I mean)? hehe, sorry for my ignorance.

Rally


On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 10:13 AM, maning sambale  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Inviting you to the OSGEO-PH Dec 2011 meetup.
>
> Details here:
> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Philippines/Chapter_Meeting_2011-12-03
>
> Perhaps one OSMer can present something about OSM-PH?
>
> Please confirm or add your name in the wiki if you're coming. Thanks.
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> --
>
> ___
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Re: [talk-ph] Google LatLong blog article on MapUps this year

[Rally de Leon]

nyaks, supermapper kayo dyan, nakakahiya...talaga yan si Aileen :-) (she was
probably referring to our Ondoy experience).

I only did a portion of Lupang Arenda at the request of fellow mapper Louie
Galvez (Red Cross Makati) to quickly produce a sketch map and identify
evacuation centers for the operations briefing of relief volunteers, donors
and military.

Before Ondoy, it was dangerous to map/collect data in that area due to
peace&order problem, so no roadmap on Google Earth, Roadguide or OSM. I had
to produce one that can be shown offline. Fortunately I still had
power/internet at my house, to download/cache GE images and able to trace &
describe the roads based on local knowledge & fresh POI gps/field-collected
data.

I observed that non-mappers easily understood/participated more in logistics
planning using simple GE drawn-lines over satellite images. It worked. In
just a few hours, military trucks (with Red Cross volunteers) were able to
navigate in a planned route, waist-high/neck-high floods in the middle of
the night (using gps); to bring relief goods to the scattered & unattended
evacuation centers. True I helped made a map, but the credit should go to
the ones who braved the mixed sewage-flood waist-high water. The
resident-messenger I sent to survey & collect gps-data, described how dirty
the water was (with floating eeky soft-brown things). He had to put his
pants on a boiling water pot afterwards. :-)


On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 9:22 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:

>
> http://google-latlong.blogspot.com/2011/09/philippines-hosts-summer-of-mapups-for.html
>
> "super mapper" Rally even has a special mention. Hehehe.
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Makati or Makati City?

[Rally de Leon]

+1 Makati
-1 Makati City

+1 all cities with no similar provincial/regional names or equivalent
(anywhere in the PH) must be stripped of their "city" suffixes or prefixes
--- use a separate tag.
(only exemptions are those: Cebu City (province of Cebu), Quezon City
(Quezon Province), Sorsogon City (Sorsogon Province), Tarlac City (Tarlac
Province), and alike etc)

+1 no city suffix or prefix for the likes of cities of "San Fernando" in La
Union & Pampanga, even if there are towns of the same name such as San
Fernando's in Bukidnon, Camarines Sur, Cebu, Romblon & Masbate

for the same reason that Los Angeles and San Francisco doesn't have a city
suffix or prefix in most maps (eg. google maps),  we want to reduce map
clutter & maintain consistency of city labeling rules


On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 11:16 AM, maning sambale  wrote:

> Two variants of the Makati tags
>
> is_in:city
> Makati - 320
> Makati City - 1
>
> addr:city
> Makati - 1231
> Makati City - 11
>
> Obviously, "Makati" is more popular.  With the group's permission I
> would like to remove the word "city" in all of the addr:city and
> is_in:city tags in Makati
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> --
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Caviteño: Is Antero Soriano Highway a really major highway?

[Rally de Leon]

the high volume of traffic on Soriano says it's a trunk, but is it true that
the traffic there is also very slow? If you can rarely reach an the average
speed 40kmh, then maybe just another busy 'primary city road' that connects
a few towns & cities. (we can't say the same for Metro Manila to qualify for
trunk road).

If you look at it in isolation, Soriano highway is not long enough to
connect the province from end-to-end or doesn't function like bringing
traffic from one region/province to another. (unlike Aguinaldo Hway &
Governor's Drive, which terminate either to another province or to the
coastline, or crosses provincial boundaries).

Unless we interpret Soriano Hway as part of series of connected system of
roads, eg. a continuation of CAVITEX which connects to NCR, or sort of a
loop that connects back to Governor's Drive. Try zooming out (when all
primary roads start to disappear, as I see it in a garmin map); it will show
that Cavitex logically needs a 'provincial road' to terminate to (or to
connect to...) Then it can be a trunk

my opinion is 50:50, we go either way (trunk or primary).

Now consider a tree. If you cut its trunk, everything on top of it will
die.The trunk serves as the main conduit of water & nutrients from roots to
all the branches and all the way to the topmost leaves & twigs.

What will happen to Metro Manila if Guadalupe Bridge (part of EDSA), or that
bridge in C-5 connecting Pasig to Makati collapse? chaos! goods coming from
the NLEX or SLEX can't get through. Metro Manila will virtually be divided.
Or imagine cutting Manila East Road or Ortigas Ave Ext in Rizal, or Halsema
Highway in the Cordillera? you kill the provincial industries.

The Caviteno's can answer the same question: if we cut Soriano Hiway, what
happens to the Cavite province? If Cavite can survive without it (even with
minor or major inconveniences of going around a similar alternate road),
then it's not a trunk road. Or what will happen to the future volume traffic
of CAVITEX if we close Soriano Hway?


On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 11:50 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:

> Any other opinions from other people in Cavite? Ian H., Rem? :-)
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Sorbi Ildefonso <
> sorbi.ildefo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I believe it is a major highway. Volume-wise, a lot of vehicles including
>> three bus lines (Lawton-Naic, Lawton-Ternate, Lawton-Maragondon) use A.
>> Soriano.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 2:33 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:
>>
>>> A user wants to upgrade Antero Soriano Highway which connects Bacoor
>>> to Naic from a primary road to a trunk road. I'd like to get the
>>> opinion if this is a good move.
>>>
>>> For reference, Governor's Drive, which connects Naic to Carmona, and
>>> Aguinaldo Highway, which connects Bacoor to Tagaytay, are both marked
>>> as trunk roads already.
>>>
>>
>
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Re: [talk-ph] C6

[Rally de Leon]

yup, C6 is passable (asphalt road) from Bicutan (coming from camp bagong
diwa) crossing Napindan Channel to Taytay, then crossing Floodway via
Barkadahan Bridge to East Bank Road. Around 30mins ride.

On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 3:12 PM, tutubi wrote:

> Hi!
>
> is the entire stretch of C6 from Bicutan to Cainta now passable by car?
> I'll be somewhere in Paranaque this weekend then can pass by C6 to get to
> East Bank Road, an alternative to the usual SLEX, EDSA
>
> also, when I went to Timberland Heights in San Mateo, Rizal, the road going
> there is tagged C-6. Is that zigzag road really part of the still under
> construction C6 or just an error?
>
> thanks
>
> --
> ---
> I explore, therefore I blog.
>
> http://www.backpackingphilippines.com
>
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Tagging convention: names for city, municipal and barangay halls

[Rally de Leon]

Try viewing the whole Metro Manila, one single province, or one whole town
in your screen-monitor. You will notice that the town-POI's close proximity
to their admin buildings hardly make a difference, because the user's focus
is usually the center of the town-proper or barangay-proper itself.

Like in most map (whether on paper or digital screen), a POI normally has an
ICON + TEXT with a font-size larger than the building polygon itself. So if
we place the Town-POI directly on top of its respective townhall polygon, we
will essentially be covering it (building) with the Town's ICON or  text. What if that townhall polygon contains a Post-office, NBI, Hall
of Justice, Comelec, Jail, Police Station, etc? then we effectively block
all of them with the 'slightly larger font' of the city-POI placed on top of
them.

I normally place the town-POI or barangay-POI close to it's administrative
building, but in such a way that when viewing the "Vicinity Map", the
Town-POI's text should do not cover other texts or icons. I noticed that
some OSM map-applications (or equivalent papermap derivatives) may not have
smart rendering. So it may be a good practice to manually reposition our
town-POI the old-fashion way, so that the map deliver maximum useable
information yet still minimizing clutter & bunching of information.

Since it's an art & not an exact science, I found by trial & error that
50-150meter (or slightly more but not greater than 250m) are good distance
(range) were we can place our Town or Barangay POI away from admin building.
Panning & looking for barangay hall or city hall within 100-200meter radius
seems relatively easy.

The center of poblacion or barangay is normally very close to the
administrative hall. Exception: A townhall is sometimes relocated to a new
site outside of its poblacion, and the town-POI should not necessarily be
moved away from the old towncenter.  A good guide is to place it closer to
the old townplaza, old church. I'm sure (there are exceptions to this
exception). Let's just discuss them here :-)

Rally

On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 8:39 PM, Gerardo Calimoso wrote:

> well, that's good if we identify barangay halls, health centers, day
> care centers etc. which are all the basic unit of governance in the
> barangay. also, may i suggest that we place, if possible, the names of
> barangay, city, municipality and the province in the exact location of
> the building where it is located like the barangay hall, city hall,
> municipal hall and the provincial capitol.
>
> thanks,
>
> gerry calimoso
>
> On 5/29/11, Eugene Alvin Villar  wrote:
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > Here's a tagging convention for the names for city, municipal and
> > barangay halls.
> >
> > If you have any suggestions, questions or violent reactions, just reply.
> :-)
> >
> > Eugene
> >
> > 
> >
> > Cities:
> > name= City Hall
> > amenity=townhall
> >
> > Example: Baguio City Hall
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/43615687
> >
> > 
> >
> > Municipalities:
> > name= Municipal Hall
> > amenity=townhall
> >
> > Example: Silang Municipal Hall, Cavite
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/77326477
> >
> > 
> >
> > Barangays:
> > name= Barangay Hall
> >
> > Example: West Triangle Barangay Hall, Quezon City
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/85400671
> >
> > 
> >
> > Barangays whose names are numbers (e.g., in Manila, Pasay, Caloocan):
> > name=Barangay  Hall
> >
> > Example: Barangay 8 Hall, Pasay City
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/109906510
> >
> > 
> >
> > Notes and links:
> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity=townhall
> >
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> >
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Re: [talk-ph] Grande Island Resort is using OSM

[Rally de Leon]

yes, I noticed this technique by the boatmen in dos palmas (keeping the
direction of the boat as perpendicular as possible, rather than parallel to
the direction of the waves) :-)

On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 10:37 AM, tutubi
wrote:

> Hi Rally,
>
> I have a trace of the Dos Palmas ferry route (and even pearl farm) but
> i didn't upload them when i saw the route is already there. Perhaps I
> can check. Also, the islands of Honda Bay are not tagged they way
> locals call the islands...just remembered it now...will correct later
> :P
>
> ferry routes also depends on directions of the waves i.e. boatmen and
> sailors don't approach waves head on but at around 45 degrees to
> lessen impact.
>
> i used to boat around laguna lake as a child and that was one of the
> things experienced boatmen taught me :P
>
> ---
> I explore, therefore I blog.
>
> http://www.backpackingphilippines.com
>
>
>
> On 5/30/11, Rally de Leon  wrote:
> > I think we can add non-gps ferry route on water bays known to be deep
> enough
> > (eg subic area), or no known fishpens or fish cages in the area. (not
> > recommended in laguna de bay).
> >
> > In night-time or zero-visibility navigation using untested ferrt route,
> > smaller pump boats may end up going through fishnets :-)
> >
> > eg. the short pumpboat ride between Dos Palmas Resort & Isla Punting
> > Buhangin can be tricky since there are shallow water/sand bars
> >
> --
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Grande Island Resort is using OSM

[Rally de Leon]

I think we can add non-gps ferry route on water bays known to be deep enough
(eg subic area), or no known fishpens or fish cages in the area. (not
recommended in laguna de bay).

In night-time or zero-visibility navigation using untested ferrt route,
smaller pump boats may end up going through fishnets :-)

eg. the short pumpboat ride between Dos Palmas Resort & Isla Punting
Buhangin can be tricky since there are shallow water/sand bars

On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 11:33 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:

> Hi Ed,
>
> I think there is no problem with adding a non-GPS-based ferry route.
> There isn't any major routing decisions to be made for this short
> ferry ride and somebody else can improve the ferry route geometry in
> the future.
>
> I don't want to add it now though since I'm not sure where the
> terminal is in Subic Bay Freeport Zone.
>
> Eugene
>
>
> On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Ed Garcia  wrote:
> > I suggest adding the ferry route from the terminal at the Waterfront road
> to
> > the Island so that it can be used by the routing services if one requests
> a
> > route from Manila to the Island.
> >
> > I have just added the resort to waypointsdotph:
> > http://waypoints.ph/vmap.php?wpt=rr0082
> > If a ferry route is added at OSM, the routing services can calculate
> routes
> > up to the island.
> >
> > Well, I guess my question is, need we wait for GPS traces of the ferry
> > route?  or can we go ahead and plot the most probable route of the ferry?
> >
> >
> > On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 10:01 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> I just sent them an email message (though it was to
> >> sa...@grandeislandresort.com--there was no general email address). :-)
> >>
> >> On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 6:48 PM, maning sambale
> >>  wrote:
> >> > Dear Eugene,
> >> >
> >> > Have you tried sending them a message with the correct html embed
> code?
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 5:56 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar <
> sea...@gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> Grande Island Resort in Subic Bay is using OSM to show their location
> >> >> in their website: http://www.grandeislandresort.com/location.html
> >> >>
> >> >> Unfortunately, the marker shown in the map is about a hundred
> >> >> kilometers off the actual location of the resort:
> >> >> http://osm.org/go/4zMqrIm?m
> >> >>
> >> > --
> >> > cheers,
> >> > maning
> >>
> >> ___
> >> talk-ph mailing list
> >> talk-ph@openstreetmap.org
> >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > website administrator:
> > - www.waypoints.ph
> > - reeflife.eppgarcia.com
> >
> > PADI Divemaster #491048
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Pateros Mapping Party on May 28!

[Rally de Leon]

If there will be bing-trace skillsharing, let's discuss the best practices,
common mistakes, use of tools/shortcuts to make life easy, etc.; then
formulate simple guidelines that we can summarize (something like a sticky
note); or sort of a flow chart or steps to follow before you actually trace
(very simple instructions) - this is to prevent conflicts of data (purely
bing traced versus gps-referenced poi's and roads).

I'd like to touch a bit on standardization of PH tags (for correct-rendering
of POI's in mobile devices such as garmin or android devices). Especially
the gray-area, like how do we differentiate townhall from barangay hall,
place=village (which can be found of both subdivisions & barangay poi's),
etc. We make a short list of common mistakes/conflict first.

On Fri, May 27, 2011 at 2:32 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> Because of the chance of thunderstorms this Saturday, we decided to
> postpone the Mapping Party itself to one, hopefully sunny, Saturday in
> June. However, we would still be meeting up this Saturday and talk
> about OSM stuff. Maybe a skill-share or a Bing tracing session, or
> more planning for the OSMPH Garmin map. Just reply if you're
> interested.
>
> :-)
>
>
> On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 12:08 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar 
> wrote:
> > Well, as you've mentioned elsewhere, let's monitor the weather. We
> > might postpone the event or switch it to an indoor event. :-)
> >
> >
> > On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 9:31 AM, maning sambale
> >  wrote:
> >> I propose the morning meetup to be somewhere in Pateros poblacion area
> >> (jollibee, chowking or any amenity=fast_food)
> >>
> >> On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:32 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar 
> wrote:
> >>> OSM Wiki page:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pateros_Mapping_Party
> >>> Facebook event page:
> http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=215576085127532
> >>>
> >>> See you guys there!
> >>>
> >>> More details will be added in the days to come. :-)
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> cheers,
> >> maning
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://vaes9.codedgraphic.com
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [talk-ph] Pateros Mapping Party on May 28!

[Rally de Leon]

nice. So, we'll also be mapping a portion of Bgy Buting Pasig (east side of
Concepcion Ave up to Kalayaan Ave) as well as a portion of Elizco Road, Bgy
San Joaquin Pasig up to Lexington Garden?

Which slice can we use car mapping? and which on foot?

experiment: In case I'll be assigned for car-mapping, can I request for
volunteers with point-&-shoot camera (although preferably something that can
shoot fast on readable texts of business signboards). Somebody who will
shoot at left-side & right-side of the car (it's sometimes tricky to
determine which pictures were taken on left side & right side of the road).
Syncing time with a gpsr, it's possible to collect more data & faster
(without attracting attention, because the car has slightly-tinted window).
That way we finish early, we eat the pateros-balut paired with cold SanMig
afterwards ;-)

btw, camera mapping may not work on residential areas & depressed areas (i
believe Pateros don't have that many commercial establishments, bahala na.
I'll bring a portable bicycle) :-)


On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:33 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> Here is the proposed Pateros cake: http://mapcraft.nanodesu.ru/pie/62
>
> Please RSVP if you can on Facebook if you want to join. Or you can
> reply to this email. :-)
>
> Eugene
>
>
> On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:32 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar 
> wrote:
> > OSM Wiki page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Pateros_Mapping_Party
> > Facebook event page:
> http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=215576085127532
> >
> > See you guys there!
> >
> > More details will be added in the days to come. :-)
> >
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [talk-ph] tags for dormitories

[Rally de Leon]

Proposed: "building=dormitory" for buildings similar to that of UP's
residence halls? but they are generally residential buildings that house
sleeping quarters for university students

The rest of the buildings are just tagged as plain "building=yes" (whether
for commercial, industrial, hospital or school use)

In PH, there is sort of a convergence towards creating mixed-use
one-stop-shop buildings.

We now have hospitals that have commercial establishment (restaurants, spa,
etc) covering a considerable amount floor area.
Residential condo with Office or Commercial space in the entire lower
floors.
A commercial or residential building with considerable floor-space devoted
to place_of_worship or vice-versa (eg. CCF in St.Francis Square or the newly
constructed CCF in Frontera Verde - which could probably end up as a church
+ training center + commercial space).

Or how about the dorm-type building in Home Depot Ortigas (for callcenters
and office workers), or Gwapotel (for workers) by MMDA. I'm will not be
surprised if some 'residential houses' (not exactly apartments) with "lady
bed spacers" sign will be tagged as building=dormitory by newbies. :-)

We may end up with new proposals such as building=commercial or
building=residential etc instead of 'landuse'; better left declared properly
by the owner of the building themselves (or the City Assessor). Until then,
maybe the PH mappers are safer to tag these polygons with plain
"building=yes"

how about additional tag for the POI such as "amenity=dormitory" (or is it
an amenity) occupant=student? ;-) I think it's improper to tag as
"tourism=dormitory" because the primary customers are not travelers, unlike
hotels & motels.

the building structure & features of student-dorms are closely related to
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism%3Dhostel
except that it's for longer-stay, covered by some sort of contract for a
particular period, more like a room-for-rent? i'm not familiar.

maybe it should be in the same tag-category as apartment (if it exist) eg.
any residential spaces/rooms/house for lease or rent (not for leisure or
tourism use)



On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 9:13 PM, maning sambale
wrote:

> I saw some tagged as chalet and hostel, but there is tage for
> dormitories: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Ddormitory
> Should we adopt this tag?
>
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> --
>
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Re: [talk-ph] quiapo's electronics, photography and optical shops?

[Rally de Leon]

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features

shop=optician   (optical shops, with optometrists - sells corrective
lenses/prescription glasses)
craft=optician

amenity=doctors   for full opthalmologist on clinics) - but if optha's
office is in the Medical Arts building of a Medical Complex (hospital) - no
need for tag.

Camera:
nearest related official osm tag is shop=electronics for Digicams (i don't
know for the antique SLR cameras)

any suggestion to tag combined camera/photo, video, multimedia equipt (eg
projectors)?


Gensets:
on above link, hardware is described to sell bolts & nuts, paints, but in PH
local hardwares sell everything to build a house, tools, even construction
materials such hollow blocks. So for this purpose, i'm more inclined to
classify any shop selling none-automotive tools, more particularly made of
metal: bolts, hammers, drills & all it's accessories, gensets, grinders
(whether powered or not) as a clue that it's a hardware.

+1 for shop=hardware instead of shop=do_it_yourself
DIY's also sell gensets (but on limited stocks only - for purpose of
variety)

if it sells purely paint, then shop=paint

Before  AceHardware, Handyman, True Value, builders depots... professionals
& craftsmen go to Evangelista in Quiapo, and more particularly Dasmarinas St
in Binondo for special power tools, generator sets, welding machines,
plumbers tool, lathe, etc. These power tools & Portable Gensets & other
equipt are usually sold on the 'same' hardware shops (which are not your
typical DYI stores which sell lightbulbs, sockets, antenna connectors,
paints, wall fans & bathroom cleaning stuff)

besides Coleman's Powermate, is there any shop exclusively selling
commercial-grade portable gensets? (maybe it's just an exception) - no need
for a separate classification or icon

On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 10:15 AM, tutubi
wrote:

>
> i'm now populating POIs in quiapo after fixing routing around the area and
> nearby Sta. Cruz
> i wanted to add electronics shops on raon, optical shops on paterno, and
> photography shops on hidalgo and p gomez but i don't know how to tag them.
>
> for electronics: i temporarily used DIY
> for photography?
> optical: clinic?
> how about generators and power shops on evangelista?
>
> i may just add them with a name and FIXME tag for now
>
>
> --
> ---
> I explore, therefore I blog.
>
> http://www.backpackingphilippines.com
>
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Tagging suggestion: opening_hours=24/7

[Rally de Leon]

+1 opening_hours=24/7 for 24-hour Mercury Drug and all other Major Drug
Stores
+1 opening_hours=24/7 for McDonalds /Jollibee & other big fastfood chains
etc...

How about requesting Mercury Drug for their official list (including the
branch names), maybe they can just update/email us whenever they open a new
24hour branch? :-)

On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 12:56 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> To input the opening or operating hours of any establishment, you can
> use the opening_hours=* tag. The value has a special format and you
> can read about it here:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:opening_hours
>
> For example, opening_hours=Mo-Sa 09:00-19:00 means that the
> establishment is open from 9 am to 7 pm Mondays to Saturdays.
>
> Entering this level of detail is completely optional.
>
> However, I would strongly suggest that you enter the special value
> "24/7" for establishments that are open 24 hours. More than the other
> formatted values, 24/7 is quite important to know and may be useful in
> emergencies (have you ever tried searching for a 24-hour Mercury Drug
> store to buy medicine in the middle of the night?).
>
> So, I personally don't care if you contribute values like "Mo-Sa
> 09:00-19:00" or not. But I encourage you to tag 24-hour
> establishments. :-)
>
> Eugene
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Tagging suggestion: Use the branch=* tag!

[Rally de Leon]

If we have the numbers, then it's the subway-branch tag that will eventually
give way in favor of shop-branch-code. Ok let's proceed  :-)

2011/4/28 Eugene Alvin Villar 

> Hi,
>
> I checked other instances of the branch tag elsewhere in the world and
> it seems that they are also using it in the same way that we do. Some
> examples:
>
> 1. A Barclay's bank in England:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/253409198
> 2. A KFC store in Australia:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/49553998
> 3. A Приватбанк bank in the Ukraine:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/83925848
> 4. A Waitrose supermarket in England:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/34520881
> 5. A Сбербанк России bank in Russia:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/618791144
> 6. A Vodafone store in England:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/638868816
>
> I guess we can proceed? Hehehe.
>
> Anyway, branch is a "non-standard" tag so I'll bring this topic up in
> the international tagging mailing list to hopefully make this usage
> official.
>
> Eugene
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 8:07 PM, Rally de Leon  wrote:
> > if UK is already using branch tag for transportation (subway), and in PH
> for
> > shop's "branch code", and if it happens another country is using it for
> > another purpose; then in the end UK users will probably win since they
> > started using 'branch' ahead of us; that is if somebody started using
> > 'branch' for rendering-purposes of worldwide osm mapdata.
> >
> > By this time, we'll be in trouble trying to rename again all our 'branch'
> > assignments just to comply & to be consistent with the official tagging
> > scheme.
> >
> > Maybe we if we don't like 'name:branch' (because it's too long) :-),
> let's
> > use branch:ph or something else just to be on the safe side (for
> > future-proofing sake). What do you guys think?
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 7:36 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> If you check out this link maning gave, you can see that it's used
> >> outside the Philippines, too:
> >> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.de/keys/branch#values
> >>
> >> I checked out the usages in the UK and they are apparently using it to
> >> tag Underground (subway) branch lines. I have yet to check the usages
> >> in other countries.
> >>
> >> I'll try to bring it up to the tagging mailing list. But anyway, I
> >> think we can use it as long as we are consistent. We can always rename
> >> the tag if the international OSM community decides otherwise.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Rally de Leon 
> wrote:
> >> > 'name:branch' is just something I invented. Besides the reasons as I
> >> > already
> >> > stated earlier (like bunching of similar tag by natural sorting-order
> of
> >> > josm), I hesitated using plain 'branch' tag earlier because I'm afraid
> >> > it
> >> > may be reserved for other generic/universal purpose in osm (that I'm
> not
> >> > aware of and produce conflict later...) and I'm too lazy to do
> research.
> >> > :-)
> >> >
> >> > Now it appears no one is using or will be using 'branch' other than
> the
> >> > PH's
> >> > definition of a shop's "branch name or code".
> >> >
> >> > ok then, let's adapt 'branch', just rename all name:branch you'll find
> >> > while
> >> > editing, and let's hope it becomes adapted by osm. :-)
> >> >
> >> > (no problem with garmin map, since we treat both branch & name:branch
> as
> >> > valid tags in the style filter, until such time we renamed all
> >> > name:branch
> >> > for consistency).
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar <
> sea...@gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> So does everyone agree that we should use "branch" instead of
> >> >> "name:branch" as the key for the tag?
> >> >>
> >> >> (I prefer "branch" because it's faster to type with autocomplete:
> "br")
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 4:08 PM, maning sambale
> >> 

Re: [talk-ph] Tagging suggestion: Use the branch=* tag!

[Rally de Leon]

if UK is already using branch tag for transportation (subway), and in PH for
shop's "branch code", and if it happens another country is using it for
another purpose; then in the end UK users will probably win since they
started using 'branch' ahead of us; that is if somebody started using
'branch' for rendering-purposes of worldwide osm mapdata.

By this time, we'll be in trouble trying to rename again all our 'branch'
assignments just to comply & to be consistent with the official tagging
scheme.

Maybe we if we don't like 'name:branch' (because it's too long) :-), let's
use branch:ph or something else just to be on the safe side (for
future-proofing sake). What do you guys think?


On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 7:36 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:

> If you check out this link maning gave, you can see that it's used
> outside the Philippines, too:
> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.de/keys/branch#values
>
> I checked out the usages in the UK and they are apparently using it to
> tag Underground (subway) branch lines. I have yet to check the usages
> in other countries.
>
> I'll try to bring it up to the tagging mailing list. But anyway, I
> think we can use it as long as we are consistent. We can always rename
> the tag if the international OSM community decides otherwise.
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Rally de Leon  wrote:
> > 'name:branch' is just something I invented. Besides the reasons as I
> already
> > stated earlier (like bunching of similar tag by natural sorting-order of
> > josm), I hesitated using plain 'branch' tag earlier because I'm afraid it
> > may be reserved for other generic/universal purpose in osm (that I'm not
> > aware of and produce conflict later...) and I'm too lazy to do research.
> :-)
> >
> > Now it appears no one is using or will be using 'branch' other than the
> PH's
> > definition of a shop's "branch name or code".
> >
> > ok then, let's adapt 'branch', just rename all name:branch you'll find
> while
> > editing, and let's hope it becomes adapted by osm. :-)
> >
> > (no problem with garmin map, since we treat both branch & name:branch as
> > valid tags in the style filter, until such time we renamed all
> name:branch
> > for consistency).
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> So does everyone agree that we should use "branch" instead of
> >> "name:branch" as the key for the tag?
> >>
> >> (I prefer "branch" because it's faster to type with autocomplete: "br")
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 4:08 PM, maning sambale
> >>  wrote:
> >> > Nothing on the wiki, but, it used even outside the PH (although more
> >> > than half is here in the PH):
> >> > http://taginfo.openstreetmap.de/keys/branch#values
> >> > http://tagwatch.stoecker.eu/Philippines/En/top_undocumented_keys.html
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Rally de Leon 
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> ok lang ako with plain branch, it's easier to type.  I have no
> problem
> >> >> typing it on josm editor, since it's autofill, once it detects the
> >> >> presence
> >> >> of at least one name:branch tag in your work area.
> >> >>
> >> >> 'name:branch' is just a personal preference because name &
> name:branch
> >> >> shows
> >> >> in sequential/alphabetical order on JOSM. It's nicer to look at, and
> I
> >> >> like
> >> >> the name-association approach in our other openstreetmap. eg. the way
> >> >> we use
> >> >> place:ph which appears close to other place tags (i like the fact
> that
> >> >> closely-related-tags tend to bunch together) :-)
> >> >>
> >> >> anyway, whatever is agreed upon, i'll follow. (what's the approach of
> >> >> other
> >> >> osm people worldwide or they don't care about the branches?)
> >> >>
> >> >> On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 3:18 PM, maning sambale
> >> >> 
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I agree with all your points, perhaps we can start adding the branch
> >> >>> tag to all common POIs (jollibee, mcdo, etc.)? But why use the
> >> >>> name:branch inste

Re: [talk-ph] Tagging suggestion: Use the branch=* tag!

[Rally de Leon]

'name:branch' is just something I invented. Besides the reasons as I already
stated earlier (like bunching of similar tag by natural sorting-order of
josm), I hesitated using plain 'branch' tag earlier because I'm afraid it
may be reserved for other generic/universal purpose in osm (that I'm not
aware of and produce conflict later...) and I'm too lazy to do research. :-)

Now it appears no one is using or will be using 'branch' other than the PH's
definition of a shop's "branch name or code".

ok then, let's adapt 'branch', just rename all name:branch you'll find while
editing, and let's hope it becomes adapted by osm. :-)

(no problem with garmin map, since we treat both branch & name:branch as
valid tags in the style filter, until such time we renamed all name:branch
for consistency).


On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:

> So does everyone agree that we should use "branch" instead of
> "name:branch" as the key for the tag?
>
> (I prefer "branch" because it's faster to type with autocomplete: "br")
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 4:08 PM, maning sambale
>  wrote:
> > Nothing on the wiki, but, it used even outside the PH (although more
> > than half is here in the PH):
> > http://taginfo.openstreetmap.de/keys/branch#values
> > http://tagwatch.stoecker.eu/Philippines/En/top_undocumented_keys.html
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Rally de Leon 
> wrote:
> >> ok lang ako with plain branch, it's easier to type.  I have no problem
> >> typing it on josm editor, since it's autofill, once it detects the
> presence
> >> of at least one name:branch tag in your work area.
> >>
> >> 'name:branch' is just a personal preference because name & name:branch
> shows
> >> in sequential/alphabetical order on JOSM. It's nicer to look at, and I
> like
> >> the name-association approach in our other openstreetmap. eg. the way we
> use
> >> place:ph which appears close to other place tags (i like the fact that
> >> closely-related-tags tend to bunch together) :-)
> >>
> >> anyway, whatever is agreed upon, i'll follow. (what's the approach of
> other
> >> osm people worldwide or they don't care about the branches?)
> >>
> >> On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 3:18 PM, maning sambale <
> emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I agree with all your points, perhaps we can start adding the branch
> >>> tag to all common POIs (jollibee, mcdo, etc.)? But why use the
> >>> name:branch instead of just the branch tag?
> >>>
> >>> Of course, I will follow whatever we agree as a group. ;)
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Rally de Leon 
> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 11:14 AM, maning sambale
> >>> >  wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> +1 for adding the branch tag.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> @Rally, is there any additional benefit for using the "name:branch"
> >>> >> key?
> >>> >>
> >>> >> In the garmin map, it shows as Name - Branch.
> >>> >>
> >>> >
> >>> > For garmin map, the plan is to add "name" + "-" + "name:branch" when
> the
> >>> > map
> >>> > is compiled, so that it's more convenient to search for a particular
> >>> > shop
> >>> > while you're mobile. (need not look at the properties of every poi on
> >>> > the
> >>> > 'search results' to see if you got the correct address). I'm sure gps
> >>> > users
> >>> > know this, and this is the reason why many contributors put the
> >>> > branch-name
> >>> > after the shop's name.
> >>> >
> >>> > So why separate (if we will combine them altogether again for garmin
> >>> > map)?,
> >>> > because others may want to extract all the Jollibee's, Metrobanks,
> >>> > Mecury
> >>> > Drugs, 7-Eleven's etc. It's much much easier to filter out a specific
> >>> > brand
> >>> > (for whatever purpose it may serve, eg. market study).
> >>> >
> >>> > If in the future, I want all my Shell Stations to have a unique
> custom
> >>> > Icon,
> >>> > all I have to do is filter out all name=Shell & amenity=fuel on the
> >>> > style
> >>> > section. If we encourage contributors to put so many different
> >>> > name-branch
> >>> > combinations, we might miss out a few branches in the process.
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Tagging suggestion: Use the branch=* tag!

[Rally de Leon]

ok lang ako with plain branch, it's easier to type.  I have no problem
typing it on josm editor, since it's autofill, once it detects the presence
of at least one name:branch tag in your work area.

'name:branch' is just a personal preference because name & name:branch shows
in sequential/alphabetical order on JOSM. It's nicer to look at, and I like
the name-association approach in our other openstreetmap. eg. the way we use
place:ph which appears close to other place tags (i like the fact that
closely-related-tags tend to bunch together) :-)

anyway, whatever is agreed upon, i'll follow. (what's the approach of other
osm people worldwide or they don't care about the branches?)

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 3:18 PM, maning sambale
wrote:

> I agree with all your points, perhaps we can start adding the branch
> tag to all common POIs (jollibee, mcdo, etc.)? But why use the
> name:branch instead of just the branch tag?
>
> Of course, I will follow whatever we agree as a group. ;)
>
> On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Rally de Leon  wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 11:14 AM, maning sambale
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> +1 for adding the branch tag.
> >>
> >> @Rally, is there any additional benefit for using the "name:branch" key?
> >>
> >> In the garmin map, it shows as Name - Branch.
> >>
> >
> > For garmin map, the plan is to add "name" + "-" + "name:branch" when the
> map
> > is compiled, so that it's more convenient to search for a particular shop
> > while you're mobile. (need not look at the properties of every poi on the
> > 'search results' to see if you got the correct address). I'm sure gps
> users
> > know this, and this is the reason why many contributors put the
> branch-name
> > after the shop's name.
> >
> > So why separate (if we will combine them altogether again for garmin
> map)?,
> > because others may want to extract all the Jollibee's, Metrobanks, Mecury
> > Drugs, 7-Eleven's etc. It's much much easier to filter out a specific
> brand
> > (for whatever purpose it may serve, eg. market study).
> >
> > If in the future, I want all my Shell Stations to have a unique custom
> Icon,
> > all I have to do is filter out all name=Shell & amenity=fuel on the style
> > section. If we encourage contributors to put so many different
> name-branch
> > combinations, we might miss out a few branches in the process.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
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[talk-ph] Baguio-Nueva Viscaya Road, Baguio-Aritao Road, Baguio-Banaue Road. Which Which?

[Rally de Leon]

http://www.gmanews.tv/story/86504/Baguio-Nueva-Vizcaya-Road-opens-in-June

http://www.gmanews.tv/story/141775/Arroyo-to-inaugurate-newly-rehabilitated-Baguio-Aritao-Road

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/regions/view/20090105-181452/Arroyo-renames-Baguio-Aritao-Road

Last February, I lend my garmin 76csx to a friend (A.S.Tanjangco) who joined
the 700+km Petron Endurance (motorbike) Run last Feb. It's Manila - Pampanga
(via Mcarthur Hway) - Bataan-Subic Zambales - Alaminos - Urdaneta - Aritao
Nueva Ecija, crossed the Baguio-Nueva Vizcaya Road passing Ambuklao Dam,
then entering Baguio thru Ambuklao Road - Pacdal Circle - Leonard Wood.

I was talking with this motorbike-rider yesterday and he described this
Aritao-to-Baguio Road as all cemented highway. He was very happy driving on
it; and I'm also very happy our new tracks (& road verification) :-)

On quick search, it turned out to be the new shorter alternative road
(possibly a new alternative 'trunk road' from the usual long Halsema
Highway), linking Benguet to Nueva Vizcaya's Daang Maharlika Highway

As of this writing, I'm in the process of retracing this road (over a
fresher 1-sec gps tracklog) to improve road alignments & initially
reclassifying it from Secondary to Primary. I'm tempted to make it a trunk
:-)

I don't know the official name yet: Baguio-Nueva Vizcaya Road, Baguio-Aritao
Road, Baguio-Banaue Road. Which Which?
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Re: [talk-ph] Tagging suggestion: Use the branch=* tag!

[Rally de Leon]

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 11:14 AM, maning sambale  wrote:

> +1 for adding the branch tag.
>
> @Rally, is there any additional benefit for using the "name:branch" key?
>
> In the garmin map, it shows as Name - Branch.
>
>
For garmin map, the plan is to add "name" + "-" + "name:branch" when the map
is compiled, so that it's more convenient to search for a particular shop
while you're mobile. (need not look at the properties of every poi on the
'search results' to see if you got the correct address). I'm sure gps users
know this, and this is the reason why many contributors put the branch-name
after the shop's name.

So why separate (if we will combine them altogether again for garmin map)?,
because others may want to extract all the Jollibee's, Metrobanks, Mecury
Drugs, 7-Eleven's etc. It's much much easier to filter out a specific brand
(for whatever purpose it may serve, eg. market study).

If in the future, I want all my Shell Stations to have a unique custom Icon,
all I have to do is filter out all name=Shell & amenity=fuel on the style
section. If we encourage contributors to put so many different name-branch
combinations, we might miss out a few branches in the process.
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Re: [talk-ph] Tagging suggestion: Use the branch=* tag!

[Rally de Leon]

I agree. It's easier to filter them out (and make a database of a specific
brand) if we separate the branch from the name.

but I have been using "name:branch=" instead of plain branch= since last
year
(for good reason that the tags are arranged aphabetically in josm - the
'branch' is shown immediately after the 'name'). :-)

It's easier for me to look/search for branch in case there are so many other
tags & comments included;  and it shows that said branch-tag is (integral)
part of the name).

I'm using this generic name-branch tag for banks, fastfood chains, mercury
drugs, 7-11's etc.


On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 11:50 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> For establishments that have a branch name (like banks), put the
> branch name into the branch tag instead of stuffing it into the name
> tag.
>
> For example, the Bank of Commerce located near the San Miguel
> Corporation HQ in Ortigas is this node:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/747625995
>
> It currently has the following tags:
> amenity=bank
> name=Bank of Commerce
> branch=San Miguel
> atm=yes
>
> Please only put the official branch name into this tag. Don't invent a
> branch name.
>
> For banks, you can often find the branch name prominently displayed on
> the bank's banner signboard (BPI, BDO, RCBC, Metrobank do this).
> Sometimes the branch name is on the small overhead sign that are
> perpendicular to the street. In others, the branch name is printed on
> the door. Another acceptable source is to go to the bank's official
> website and find their list of branches page.
>
> This branch tag is currently being used in the OSM-PH Garmin map to
> create labels like " ()".
>
>
> Eugene
>
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Re: [talk-ph] GPS article

[Rally de Leon]

what if it was intentional (signal-jamming experiment)? like what North
Korea is doing to South Korea.
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/world/view/20110306-323798/N-Korea-jammed-S-Korea-GPS-devices

On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Jim Morgan  wrote:

> A general GPS tech article, rather than a mapping-related one, but I
> thought it might be interesting anyway.
>
>
> IT WAS just after midday in San Diego, California, when the disruption
> started. In the tower at the airport, air-traffic controllers peered at
> their monitors only to find that their system for tracking incoming planes
> was malfunctioning. At the Naval Medical Center, emergency pagers used for
> summoning doctors stopped working. Chaos threatened in the busy harbour,
> too, after the traffic-management system used for guiding boats failed. On
> the streets, people reaching for their cellphones found they had no signal
> and bank customers trying to withdraw cash from local ATMs were refused.
> Problems persisted for another 2 hours.
>
> It took three days to find an explanation for this mysterious event in
> January 2007. Two navy ships in the San Diego harbour had been conducting a
> training exercise. To test procedures when communications were lost,
> technicians jammed radio signals. Unwittingly, they also blocked radio
> signals from GPS satellites across a swathe of the city.
>
> Continues ...
><
> http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20202-gps-chaos-how-a-30-box-can-jam-your-life.html?full=true&print=true
> >
>
>
> --
>
>   datalude: information security
>   e: j...@datalude.com
>   Philippines: +63 2 403 1311 / mob: +63 917 849 3939
>   Hong Kong: +852 6840 6693
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>
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[talk-ph] Mapping the Nation (Ambeth Ocampo)

[Rally de Leon]

Back in the 90's, Ambeth was told that a Murillo Velarde map was available
in Italy for P1 million, and he asked his father if he could advance his
inheritance...

hehe - I love his passion. :-)

"maps don’t just teach geography; as a depiction of our country these maps
should also teach history and nationhood"

http://opinion.inquirer.net/inquireropinion/columns/view/20110218-320885/Mapping-the-nation
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Re: [talk-ph] calamba-sta cruz famy junction road?

[Rally de Leon]

On Item No. 9 (page 3) of Senate Bill 740 (as proposed by Manuel Villar)
dated June 30, 2004
it describes MANILA EAST ROAD as
(Cainta-Taytay-Angono-Binangonan-Morong-Cardona-Famy-Victoria Road)

http://www.senate.gov.ph/lisdata/19301337!.pdf

If Villar's researchers (for this senate bill) were correct, then it is safe
to say that M.E.R. includes Ortigas Ave Extension (as I originally
suspected, basing on a construction signboard by DPWH I saw last year), and
it extends up to Victoria, Laguna. The rest of the road back to the City of
Calamba can temporarily be known as National Highway (until after we know
the official name)




On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 5:33 PM, tutubi wrote:

> this always bugs me whenever i pass by calamba going home
> from calamba crossing, the road's tagged as calamba-sta cruz famy junction
> road
> (famy is quite far away)
>
> if you ask locals and see addresses printed on business establishments
> signages, it just says
> national highway...even locals in Paete call it National Highway and Manila
> East Road doesn't ring a bell
> (though it's really MER)
>
> this is from calamba to Pila...in Pila it's changed to Manila East
> Road...not sure where MER ends
> but can I change it to National Highway? After Crossing, it's tagged as
> such to Cabuyao, Binan and San Pedro.
> How about tagging it as Provincial Highway though it's really a national
> road?
>
>
> --
> ---
> I explore, therefore I blog.
>
> http://www.backpackingphilippines.com
>
>
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Re: [talk-ph] tagging rotund/roundabout

[Rally de Leon]

> Thus, I think QC's Elliptical Road, and Mandaluyong's Maysilo are *not*
> roundabouts.
>

I haven't checked the entire Elliptical Road's entrances to the inner circle
(the park etc), but I don't think it's possible for a car to cut directly
across the elliptical road, from the outer to the inner. All vehicles coming
from the radial roads are required to turn right and follow the circle.
Vehicles from the peripheries merged slowly to the traffic (going
counter-clockwise). After carefully merging with the flow, it can
(carefully) swerve to the inner lanes, little by little until it's on the
inner ring, where it's safe to make a left turn to the entrance of inner
(polygon). In which case, Quezon Memorial Circle functions like a big
roundabout, don't you think?
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Re: [talk-ph] Automatic road tracing from satellite imagery?

[Rally de Leon]

On initial quick testing, the 'shadows of high buildings' on the street
creates crooked lines. I think it needs more tweaking...

But if they manage to get it right later on, many will benefit. That will
help us a lot, especially for tracing very long provincial roads that run
into several kilometers. And it will also lessen the risk of developing
carpal-tunnel syndrome.


On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 8:40 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:

> Here's something somebody whipped up to play around with things:
> http://maps.qualitystreetmap.org/bingtracing/
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 8:37 AM, George Tujan  wrote:
> > now that's pretty cool!
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 2:23 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> See this blog post:
> >>
> >>
> http://www.bing.com/community/site_blogs/b/maps/archive/2011/02/03/automatically-detect-roads-with-bing-aerial-imagery.aspx
> >>
> >> And this YouTube video:
> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR0WV2dGIRc
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
> >
> >
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [talk-ph] RFC re-tag Halsema Highway from primary to trunk

[Rally de Leon]

+1 trunk - from benguet to mountain province to ifugao to nueva ecija
(connecting to daang maharlika)



On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Ed Garcia  wrote:

> My two centavos worth ... (from reading various opinions on the subject)
> ...
>
> If the road crosses provinces and IS the main road of choice for travelling
> from one province to another, I would agree tagging it as trunk.
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 9:54 AM, maning sambale  > wrote:
>
>> Halsema Highway is the major route/artery in CAR.  Currently, it is
>> tagged as highway:primary.  I'm pondering on re-tagging it to
>> highway:trunk.  Any comments.
>> http://osm.org/go/42gQbAf?way=95954039
>> --
>> cheers,
>> maning
>> --
>> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
>> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
>> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
>> --
>>
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>
>
>
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>
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Re: [talk-ph] Be careful in tracing from Bing Maps

[Rally de Leon]

JOSM Version 3767 (on Windows) looks like this:
http://s232.photobucket.com/albums/ee315/ralleon888/?action=view¤t=JOSMVersion3767ImageryOffset.jpg

No need for extra plug-in (it's built-in):
http://s232.photobucket.com/albums/ee315/ralleon888/?action=view¤t=JOSMImageryOffsetPreference.jpg


On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Jim Morgan  wrote:

> Rally de Leon wrote, On Thursday, 06 January, 2011 12:04 PM:
> > the one i'm using on windows: JOSM (version 3767)
> >
> > While Bing Imagery & GPS traces are shown on the JOSM's background:
> > click on menu: Imagery --> New offset
>
> Don't seem to have that menu anywhere. I'm using the latest JOSM on Linux.
> Maybe the menu item is added with one of your plugins? What plugins are you
> running?
>
> Jim
>
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Re: [talk-ph] Be careful in tracing from Bing Maps

[Rally de Leon]

Hi Jim,
It is possible to do this on the "latest" JOSM. I was also surprised
(and very happy) to discover this powerful new feature on JOSM.
Because I used to manually enter 'numeric values' for offset
corrections (Northings/Eastings), and It's a long trial & error
process to get the best-fit; now it's just click & drag. very nice.

And the other thing I love (on josm) is that you can 'bookmark' a lot
of these offset values per working area. Note: (from experience), the
offset correction is normally good only within 300-500 meter radius
(from the center of your good reference area); after which, the
imagery tends to shift slightly. Thus, to maintain good & tight
alignments between uploaded gps traces & osm data, you have to
recalibrate (offset) every half kilometer or so... in which case,
bookmarking offsets can make your life a lot easier. :-)

Rally

On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Jim Morgan  wrote:
> Eugene Alvin Villar wrote, On Thursday, 06 January, 2011 02:03 AM:
>> In Potlatch 2 and Merkaartor 0.17, the imagery can be moved by
>> pressing down the spacebar then dragging. I don't know how to do this
>> in JOSM but it also has a way to move the background image.
>
> Brilliant. I didn't know you could do this in Potlatch. Had a quick look 
> around JOSM and it doesn't immediately seem possible.
>
> Jim
>
> --
>
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