Re: [Talk-us] Highway Shield Rendering
* Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com [2012-04-04 22:26 -0400]: On 4/4/2012 10:23 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: There seems to be a problem here with US 17-92: http://elrond.aperiodic.net/shields/?zoom=12lat=28.96029lon=-81.31906layers=B0 Change over to sign style and a bunch of shields appear. Er - upon rerendering, they don't appear in sign style anymore. That definitely says there's a problem now. I appear to have inadvertantly broken the rendering of shield clusters with one of my code changes last night. (One of the deawbacks of having the only public version of this also being my development environment.) It's fixed now[0], and I've scheduled that area for rerendering. I'll see if I can tell which other areas were rendered during the bad window and get them rerendered. [0] It's fixed with the cutout shields. Because of some changes I'm working on, I don't have the source images to fix the sign style at the moment, so it'll take me a little while to regenerate them. -- ...computer contrarian of the first order... / http://aperiodic.net/phil/ PGP: 026A27F2 print: D200 5BDB FC4B B24A 9248 9F7A 4322 2D22 026A 27F2 --- -- Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else. -- Delenn (Babylon 5, Severed Dreams) --- -- ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Highway Shield Rendering
* Minh Nguyen m...@1ec5.org [2012-04-04 11:54 -0700]: More requests: in addition to its circular-shield state highway system, Kentucky also has an ad-hoc parkway network. [1] At least some of them are tagged `network=US:KY:Parkway` with a shield URL in `symbol`. The Kentucky Parkways are on our TODO list. I put them off initially because not all of them have public domain SVGs on Wikipedia, so we'll have to find appropriate reference images and make our own. Unfortunately, Kentucky has made these highways' shield designs more and more intricate over the years, most recently for the state's Unbridled Spirit tourism campaign, to the point that they're more appropriate as entire guide signs than shields. I know you prefer to keep true to the official signage, but the various shields are simply illegible at the current size. So I see. The old signs looked different enough that if you knew them you'd probably be able to tell them apart even if you couldn't read the tiny text. The new ones look like they're too similar for that. New York's parkways have a similar problem with legibility. One of my plans for dealing with them is to use larger shield images at high zoom levels. Kentucky's parkways would probably benefit from this approach as well. Adding to the mess, the AA Highway is a special case that I *think* belongs in `network=US:KY` as `ref=AA`. It'd be nice to get that shield on the map, too. I've made a note of that in the TODO. It won't render until we make images for its and the other parkways' shields. Finally, I just added `network=US:OH` and `symbol` to the Ohio Turnpike, à la Pennsylvania. And there it is: http://elrond.aperiodic.net/shields/?zoom=13lat=40.92904lon=-80.56185layers=B0 (It wasn't rendering before because the cluster script hadn't created a cluster for it yet. I forced that through.) There's no shield for I-76 because it's tagged as ref=I 76. Also, the rendering doesn't use the symbol URL. It's not bad to tag it, of course, since it's potentially useful information, but it won't affect our rendering one way or another. Looks like the Indiana Toll Road has no relation yet. That's fine. We don't have a shield for it yet either. :) -- ...computer contrarian of the first order... / http://aperiodic.net/phil/ PGP: 026A27F2 print: D200 5BDB FC4B B24A 9248 9F7A 4322 2D22 026A 27F2 --- -- What can you tell me about Dracula? Dracula? Poncy bugger owes me £11, for one thing. -- Riley and Spike (Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Buffy vs. Dracula) --- -- ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Network tag Re: Highway Shield Rendering
* Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org [2012-04-04 14:01 -0700]: OK, I'll bite. How is putting banners in the network tag preferential? why not something like... network=US:TX:FM modifier=Business network=US:US modifier=Business is_in=Maryland Each of the potential tagging schemes had drawbacks. One of the chief drawbacks of this one is that a naive data consumer that looks at the network and ref tags but not the modifier tag will get drastically incorrect results. (If it looks only at the network tag, then that's useful information on its own. If it looks only at the ref tag, it's not that useful, but it's also not likely to come to incorrect conclusions about the data.) For the record, the drawbacks of the other approaches are: * network=US:US, ref=50 Business Mingles base reference numbers and route modifiers together in a way that's difficult or at least annoying for data consumers to process. Addressing this problem was one reason for separating the network and ref tags on route relations in the first place. * network=US:US:Business, ref=50 Separates mainline routes from their alternates and variants, even though all of them are, outside of OSM, in the same road network. Complicates things for data consumers who care about the main network but not whether a route is a mainline or variant (not that there are any such consumers that I know of, but it would be a problem for them). -- ...computer contrarian of the first order... / http://aperiodic.net/phil/ PGP: 026A27F2 print: D200 5BDB FC4B B24A 9248 9F7A 4322 2D22 026A 27F2 --- -- Signal_11 I'm trying to grow sentient molds to karma whore on slashdot. -- seen on #kuro5hin --- -- ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Highway Shield Rendering
* Phil! Gold phi...@pobox.com [2012-04-05 08:14 -0400]: * Minh Nguyen m...@1ec5.org [2012-04-04 11:54 -0700]: Looks like the Indiana Toll Road has no relation yet. That's fine. We don't have a shield for it yet either. :) Ah. And that's because my visit to Wikipedia left me unsure what the current design for the Toll Road's shield was. Any pointers would be appreciated. -- ...computer contrarian of the first order... / http://aperiodic.net/phil/ PGP: 026A27F2 print: D200 5BDB FC4B B24A 9248 9F7A 4322 2D22 026A 27F2 --- -- joeyo msg nickserv identify m0rd0r joeyo doh! * SignOff joyeo: #kuro5hin (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Dolgan))) -- seen on #kuro5hin --- -- ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Report about maps based on OSM
Hello everybody, there is a report at http://www.spiegel.de/ about OSM based maps. Report is in german. WernerP URL of report http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/0,1518,825561,00.html ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Report about maps based on OSM
Thanks for the link, the author seems pretty well-informed on OSM and surrounding ecosystem. I like the emphasis on OSM as a data source and not primarily a source of maps, something that a lot of people do not seem to buy into yet. (I am thinking about some of the commentary around foursquare's and geocaching.com's moves from Google Maps to OSM: 'the map just looks ugly', 'Google looks way better' etc.) The Guardian article linked to in there is also an interesting read[1], focusing more on the geographical reach of OSM (and featuring a recording of a talk at ICCM by Kate Chapman). [1] http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/mar/28/openstreetmap-google-maps-technologies On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 7:18 AM, Werner Poppele popp...@hm.edu wrote: Hello everybody, there is a report at http://www.spiegel.de/ about OSM based maps. Report is in german. WernerP URL of report http://www.spiegel.de/**netzwelt/web/0,1518,825561,00.**htmlhttp://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/0,1518,825561,00.html __**_ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-ushttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- martijn van exel geospatial omnivore 1109 1st ave #2 salt lake city, ut 84103 801-550-5815 http://oegeo.wordpress.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Highway Shield Rendering
On 4/5/2012 8:14 AM, Phil! Gold wrote: New York's parkways have a similar problem with legibility. One of my plans for dealing with them is to use larger shield images at high zoom levels. The Long Island parkways are nice and legible: http://alpsroads.net/roads/ny/ocean/e3.jpg Most other parkways use large initial caps in a green state route shield: http://alpsroads.net/roads/ny/sawmill/begin.jpg It should be reasonable to simply use the abbreviation horizontally, like the occasional (erroneous) sign: http://alpsroads.net/roads/ny/taconic/tsp.jpg ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Network tag Re: Highway Shield Rendering
I think it's clear from this discussion that we *don't* have any consensus on how best to tag relations for bannered routes. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Network tag Re: Highway Shield Rendering
On Thu, Apr 5, 2012 at 11:48 AM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote:
I think it's clear from this discussion that we *don't* have any consensus
on how best to tag relations for bannered routes.
... yet. Hence why it's important to have the discussion.
After more thought, in the general case, deprecating modifier and just
using network to denote variations using the established : separator
convention is probably sanest. As Phil points out, while no solution
is ideal, the only pitfalls with
* network=US:US:Business, ref=50
are hypothetical; AFIAK there is no data consumer other than the
shield rendering project at the moment anyway, and this solution has
the best potential of alerting the consumer with a I don't understand
this input - modifier is too easy to overlook and requires
multilayered logic and overloading ref produces freeform that needs
parsing.
For example: Pythonish pseudocode parser using just network and ref:
shield_content = relation.ref
switch relation.network:
case US:US: shield_design = 'US.svg'; break
case US:US:Business: shield_design = 'US_business.svg'; break
...
otherwise: printf('network tag %s unrecognized', relation.network)
end switch
shield = render_shield(shield_design, shield_content)
pseudocode parser that needs modifier too:
shield_content = relation.ref
switch relation.network:
case US:US:
switch relation.modifier:
case Business: shield_design = 'US_business.svg'; break
...
case NULL: shield_design = US.svg; break
otherwise: printf('modifier tag %s unrecognized for %s\n',
relation.modifier, relation.network)
end switch
...
otherwise: printf('network tag %s unrecognized\n', relation.network)
end switch
shield = render_shield(shield_design, shield_content)
pseudocode parser that has to figure things out from the ref tag:
if ' ' in relation.ref: // Hope they remembered the space!
ref = relation.ref.split(' ')[0]
suffix = relation.ref.split(' ')[1]
else:
ref = relation.ref
suffix = NULL
switch relation.network:
case US:US:
switch suffix:
case Business: shield_design = 'US_business.svg'; break
...
case NULL: shield_design = US.svg; break
otherwise: printf('suffix %s unrecognized for %s\n', suffix,
relation.network)
end switch
...
otherwise: printf('network tag %s unrecognized\n', relation.network)
end switch
shield = render_shield(shield_design, shield_content)
The code for just using network and ref is far simpler. The tagging
may not be aesthetically perfect but relations are non-newbie-friendly
almost by definition, so any tagging solution for this problem is
going to require mappers to learn the tagging style anyway.
Chris
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Addition of building footprints in selected U.S. and Canadian cities
Howdy folks, Thank you all for your thoughts. I am now aware that it's a complicated thing to Add data in bulk to a crowdsourced database. Users have eloquently argued both for and against the import of the building footprints I'm working on, and I find it boils down to a pair of inextricably-linked perspectives on OSM: 1.) OpenStreetMap is a community of individuals. The interaction between the user and the map is most valuable when one user owns their offering, and a dozen building-footprint-tracing contributors from Baltimore will feel greater ownership of their neighborhood than one guy in Vermont who uploads the whole county in one batch. 2.) OpenStreetMap is a tool. It is becoming a basemap of record in the GeoSpace precisely because that's what we wanted to do with it. OSM competes admirably with proprietary datasets, and we can use it for beautiful cartography and complex analysis. Any scale of addition is valid, as long as it is offered on the same open license. The question that lies between these two perspectives: Can we have a quality basemap while maintaining a strong commitment to individual user engagement? I think the answer is yes. I'm going to proceed with my buildings import in very small doses now, based on an assumption that was echoed by Kate and Bill: If a user in Bethesda finds that the buildings in her neighborhood are already there, maybe instead of losing a sense of ownership she'll take it to the next level by adding identities to those structures. Because I'm just adding the outlines. I can't tell you which one of them is a Bodega. There are many layers of value yet to be added. -Bill Morris -- William Morris Cartographer (802)-870-0880 wboyk...@geosprocket.com Twitter: @vtcraghead GeoSprocket LLC, Burlington VT www.geosprocket.com On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 8:57 AM, Bill Ricker bill.n1...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 6:58 PM, Kate Chapman k...@maploser.com wrote: I personally find [building footprints] makes the map far more usable for adding other information. the coastal-swath NOAA LIDAR footprints imported is MASS are wonderful. (Especially in Stamen watercolor tiles, but also in TopOSM render too. ) A Buildings layer is most useful if they're ubiquitous, not here-and-there when interesting. As GPS mapping of individual houses is not accurate without professional differential GPS -- 10m accuracy means i can't be sure which corner of my house is which ! -- the choices are bulk imports or tracing compatible imagery. When NOAA or a state has paid for LIDAR scans and auto vector conversion, using that is efficient, and we can better use volunteers to add value -- e.g. naming stores, as Kate says -- rather than doing rote manual vector extraction from imagery. There's quite enough for volunteers who *want* to do manual vector extraction from imagery to do without tracing every darned house and barn by hand! -- Bill @n1vux bill.n1...@gmail.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Highway Shield Rendering
I just fixed the ref tag on all of the I-26 relations (I 26 26), so, those should render correctly the next time any section of that route gets re-rendered. -- James ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Highway Shield Rendering
Ngày 2012-04-05 5:46 AM, Phil! Gold viết: * Phil! Gold phi...@pobox.com [2012-04-05 08:14 -0400]: * Minh Nguyen m...@1ec5.org [2012-04-04 11:54 -0700]: Looks like the Indiana Toll Road has no relation yet. That's fine. We don't have a shield for it yet either. :) Ah. And that's because my visit to Wikipedia left me unsure what the current design for the Toll Road's shield was. Any pointers would be appreciated. As of a few years ago, it was a green circle with two Indianas. [1] The orange logo was introduced in 2007, but I don't know if they've started to use it in signage or just the toll plazas. [1] http://www.billburmaster.com/rmsandw/indiana/misc/images/intoll90ina.jpg -- Minh Nguyen m...@1ec5.org AIM: trycom2000; Jabber: m...@1ec5.org; Blog: http://notes.1ec5.org/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Highway Shield Rendering
Ngày 2012-04-05 5:14 AM, Phil! Gold viết: * Minh Nguyen m...@1ec5.org [2012-04-04 11:54 -0700]: More requests: in addition to its circular-shield state highway system, Kentucky also has an ad-hoc parkway network. [1] At least some of them are tagged `network=US:KY:Parkway` with a shield URL in `symbol`. The Kentucky Parkways are on our TODO list. I put them off initially because not all of them have public domain SVGs on Wikipedia, so we'll have to find appropriate reference images and make our own. The shields incorporate Kentucky's trademarked (and presumably copyrighted) Unbridged Spirit logo. You can get a vector version from the state's website: http://kentucky.gov/pages/unbridledspirit.aspx Otherwise, I'd suggest just using standard italic text. Adding to the mess, the AA Highway is a special case that I *think* belongs in `network=US:KY` as `ref=AA`. It'd be nice to get that shield on the map, too. I've made a note of that in the TODO. It won't render until we make images for its and the other parkways' shields. Thankfully, this one didn't get rebranded: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a8/AA_Highway_Shield.svg -- Minh Nguyen m...@1ec5.org AIM: trycom2000; Jabber: m...@1ec5.org; Blog: http://notes.1ec5.org/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
