Re: [Talk-us] parcel data next steps
Brian May b...@mapwise.com writes: I also think we need a little bit more sophisticated Data Catalog than a google spreadsheet. Email and a wiki page sounds good to me for coordination. Maybe we can bring it up in a Mappy Hour as well. And if there's enough of a need, we could do a separate parcels / address oriented Google Hangout. I always find it boggling that open data projects are willing to use google docs and google hangouts. It would be really nice to at least have the data in a free software/free culture compatible place like an OSM foundation server. pgpJOBPk0pX4E.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] parcel data next steps
Interesting. How does parcel data work? What does it cover and what's the data interesting for OSM in it? Is this about sourcing address data? On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 7:27 PM, Brian Cavagnolo bcavagn...@gmail.comwrote: Hey guys, In a previous thread on parcel data, some people expressed interest in participating in creating some sort of open repository for parcel data. I was imagining a conference call or something to discuss next steps, but I think we can advance with email. I'm imagining that it makes sense to separate the data gathering process from the data standardization/import process. Regarding the data gathering, the main objective is to gather recent raw data, licensing terms, and meta data from jurisdictions in whatever form they make it available, organize it in a dumb directory structure. I was just going to set up an FTP (read-write) and HTTP (read-only) server to get this going. Are there any recommendations/opinions on a longer-term approach here? Custom webapp? Off-the-shelf webapp? Somebody mentioned a git repository. Regarding standardization/import, I was planning on setting up an empty instance of the rails port as a test bed. Then participating users could point JOSM and other tools at this alternative rails port to examine, edit, and import parcel data. We could also provide planet-style dumps and mapnik tiles. The idea is that we would have a safe place to screw up and learn. Does this sound like a reasonable direction? Oh, and I found this fantastic paper that some parcel data people (Abt Associates, Fairview Industries, Smart Data Strategies) recently put together for HUD [1] that examines many of the issues that they faced building a parcel database. Timely. Ciao, Brian [1] http://nationalcad.org/download/the-feasibility-of-developing-a-national-parcel-database-county-data-records-project-final-report/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Civil War Mapping
[the following includes a message that Adam cc'd to the list that probably got into the moderator queue] On 2/22/13 9:03 AM, Adam Schreiber wrote: On 2/21/13, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: i look forward to it. is there any particular mapping task i should look for at Spotsylvania? Last spring and summer, the Spotsylvania Battlefield was redoing a lot of their informational signs. The signs were there, but the information plate was removed. Some are on the map with labels and some without. I think most that didn't have the info plate weren't mapped. There's also a trail that cuts through the woods from the road bend parking at the Mule Shoe Salient to a spring house and some ruins that used to be closed. I also haven't mapped any of the signed driving routes outside of the park. i'll look at the unmapped signs. also, on a related note, does anyone have any thoughts about good ways to mark tour stops with existing tags? i'm thinking ref for the actual stop number, but what in the tourism category would work for the general area of the stop? usually there's a small parking area or pulloff, a couple of informational signs, and frequently a trail of some sort, sometimes as long as 1/4 mile or so (longer trails are generally point-to-point and not really part of the stop.) do we need a site relation of some sort, a bag to contain all the bits that combine to form the stop? richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] parcel data next steps
On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com wrote: Brian May b...@mapwise.com writes: I also think we need a little bit more sophisticated Data Catalog than a google spreadsheet. Email and a wiki page sounds good to me for coordination. Maybe we can bring it up in a Mappy Hour as well. And if there's enough of a need, we could do a separate parcels / address oriented Google Hangout. I always find it boggling that open data projects are willing to use google docs and google hangouts. It would be really nice to at least have the data in a free software/free culture compatible place like an OSM foundation server. I'm sure if someone puts a Google Docs or Google Hangout clone on an OSM foundation server that people would be happy to do this. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] parcel data next steps
On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 8:01 AM, Alex Barth a...@mapbox.com wrote: Interesting. How does parcel data work? What does it cover and what's the data interesting for OSM in it? Is this about sourcing address data? Parcel data is interesting to OSM because it usually has addressing information. It's interesting to the rest of the world for many other reasons. Sometimes it includes landuse information (commercial, residential, etc.), tax and ownership information, building age or other historical information, etc. Since a large chunk of municipalities have this stuff digitized and their state's have open records laws it's just a matter of spending time to collect it all. In some cases it's free and online, sometimes they will burn a CD for you and charge you for their time, other times it's not online and you have to go to the county's GIS office to pick it up. Google started doing this a while back. When you zoom all the way in to a city and see land ownership lines alone streets chances are the parcel information is available in a digital format somehow -- we just have to get it. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] parcel data next steps
On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Brian Cavagnolo bcavagn...@gmail.comwrote: Hey guys, In a previous thread on parcel data, some people expressed interest in participating in creating some sort of open repository for parcel data. I was imagining a conference call or something to discuss next steps, but I think we can advance with email. I'm imagining that it makes sense to separate the data gathering process from the data standardization/import process. Regarding the data gathering, the main objective is to gather recent raw data, licensing terms, and meta data from jurisdictions in whatever form they make it available, organize it in a dumb directory structure. I was just going to set up an FTP (read-write) and HTTP (read-only) server to get this going. Are there any recommendations/opinions on a longer-term approach here? Custom webapp? Off-the-shelf webapp? Somebody mentioned a git repository. I think the easiest thing to do right now is to collect a list of URLs and contact information for where this data might be. When it's easily obtainable we should download it and collate it. I've got a directory on the OSM US server with a few large chunks of data. I'm happy to give you an account if you want to continue filling that up. As far as metadata about this stuff I think a spreadsheet will have to do for now until we figure out commonalities between the available metadata. I suppose knowing the vintage, license, contact information, and location of the file(s) containing parcel data is the most important part. Regarding standardization/import, I was planning on setting up an empty instance of the rails port as a test bed. Then participating users could point JOSM and other tools at this alternative rails port to examine, edit, and import parcel data. We could also provide planet-style dumps and mapnik tiles. The idea is that we would have a safe place to screw up and learn. Does this sound like a reasonable direction? I don't think we should worry about importing or standardizing into anything yet. That step should happen once we have a pretty good size sample of the data so we can figure out what's available. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] parcel data next steps
On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 7:55 AM, Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com wrote: I always find it boggling that open data projects are willing to use google docs and google hangouts. It would be really nice to at least have the data in a free software/free culture compatible place like an OSM foundation server. While there may be open alternatives to Google Docs (I don't know, I've never looked - and wikis don't count as far as I'm concerned), I've never seen any open alternative to Google Hangouts. I'd love to be corrected on that point though. -- Jeff Ollie ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] parcel data next steps
On 2/22/13 12:35 PM, Jeffrey Ollie wrote: On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 7:55 AM, Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com wrote: I always find it boggling that open data projects are willing to use google docs and google hangouts. It would be really nice to at least have the data in a free software/free culture compatible place like an OSM foundation server. While there may be open alternatives to Google Docs (I don't know, I've never looked - and wikis don't count as far as I'm concerned), I've never seen any open alternative to Google Hangouts. I'd love to be corrected on that point though. i think that if an open alternative were available, the US chapter would certainly switch away from google hangouts. richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Civil War Mapping
Richard, I have been doing that in Southwestern parks that I have visited recently (Mesa Verde, Malpais Notional Monument). Usually I do the foot trails in the conventional manner, usually with a name, such as Far View House Trail. For each point of interest, I tag it as archaeological (that's what's there in Mesa Verde) and give a name (Far View House Great Kiva). I have not used sign numbers because, so far, there haven't been any. But, at Mesa Verde I haven't done some of the real popular ones, such as Cliff Palace, where there might, indeed, be numbered stops. Oh, and trails to sights in Mesa Verde and other Southwestern parks sometimes can be longer, like half a mile to a mile. There's usually a pull-off with substantial parking. As for using ref, that changes the nature of that tag. Now we use ref to give the same identification to multiple pieces of a way, not to give different identities to pieces of a way. I think it might be better to include the number of each stop in the name, but I'm certainly open to suggestion. Charlotte At 07:49 AM 2/22/2013, you wrote: [the following includes a message that Adam cc'd to the list that probably got into the moderator queue] On 2/22/13 9:03 AM, Adam Schreiber wrote: On 2/21/13, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: i look forward to it. is there any particular mapping task i should look for at Spotsylvania? Last spring and summer, the Spotsylvania Battlefield was redoing a lot of their informational signs. The signs were there, but the information plate was removed. Some are on the map with labels and some without. I think most that didn't have the info plate weren't mapped. There's also a trail that cuts through the woods from the road bend parking at the Mule Shoe Salient to a spring house and some ruins that used to be closed. I also haven't mapped any of the signed driving routes outside of the park. i'll look at the unmapped signs. also, on a related note, does anyone have any thoughts about good ways to mark tour stops with existing tags? i'm thinking ref for the actual stop number, but what in the tourism category would work for the general area of the stop? usually there's a small parking area or pulloff, a couple of informational signs, and frequently a trail of some sort, sometimes as long as 1/4 mile or so (longer trails are generally point-to-point and not really part of the stop.) do we need a site relation of some sort, a bag to contain all the bits that combine to form the stop? richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] parcel data next steps
Hello all, I mentioned a few months back that there are several places, particularly fere in the midwest, that don't own their own parcel data. Here in the St Louis area many of the counties have actually leased their parcel data from a private company for decades. The yearly lease includes an exhorbitant fee and licensing restrictions that are very specific on who they can share the parcel data with. What a crazy business model! The St Louis are might be a parcel map Black Hole for your project. I have to imagine there are other areas in the same situation. Rick Marshall Rick Marshall, PhD, GISP President VerticalGeo 130 Sawgrass Ln O'Fallon, IL 62269 (618) 670-4259 rick.marsh...@verticalgeo.com www.verticalgeo.com Read Our Blog at: http://verticalgeo.wordpress.com On Feb 22, 2013 12:00 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: On 2/22/13 12:35 PM, Jeffrey Ollie wrote: On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 7:55 AM, Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com wrote: I always find it boggling that open data projects are willing to use google docs and google hangouts. It would be really nice to at least have the data in a free software/free culture compatible place like an OSM foundation server. While there may be open alternatives to Google Docs (I don't know, I've never looked - and wikis don't count as far as I'm concerned), I've never seen any open alternative to Google Hangouts. I'd love to be corrected on that point though. i think that if an open alternative were available, the US chapter would certainly switch away from google hangouts. richard __**_ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-ushttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] parcel data next steps
On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Brian Cavagnolo bcavagn...@gmail.com wrote: Regarding the data gathering, the main objective is to gather recent raw data, licensing terms, and meta data from jurisdictions in whatever form they make it available, organize it in a dumb directory structure. I was just going to set up an FTP (read-write) and HTTP (read-only) server to get this going. Are there any recommendations/opinions on a longer-term approach here? Custom webapp? Off-the-shelf webapp? Somebody mentioned a git repository. Regarding standardization/import, I was planning on setting up an empty instance of the rails port as a test bed. Then participating users could point JOSM and other tools at this alternative rails port to examine, edit, and import parcel data. We could also provide planet-style dumps and mapnik tiles. The idea is that we would have a safe place to screw up and learn. Does this sound like a reasonable direction? Rather than an open rails port that anyone can point JOSM at and edit, I'd suggest something different. The rails port would be read-only, so that end-users could use it as a read-only layer in JOSM, or used to render tiles, etc. The only way for data to get into the rails port would to be imported from the original source files provided by the respective jurisdictions. We'd need to develop software that could handle the imports, hopefully in an incremental fashion so that as updates are made available you wouldn't have to rebuild the entire database. -- Jeff Ollie ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] parcel data next steps
On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 7:55 AM, Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com wrote: I always find it boggling that open data projects are willing to use google docs and google hangouts. It would be really nice to at least have the data in a free software/free culture compatible place like an OSM foundation server. I find it boggling that someone complains about this every time a link to a google product is posted but the complaint is never accompanied by a helpful alternative suggestion. I'm fine with people not liking/using google products and even agree to some degree. But let's at least operate on lunch planning rules. If you veto a suggestion, you must suggest a workable alternative. Toby ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Civil War Mapping
On 2/22/13 1:19 PM, Charlotte Wolter wrote: As for using ref, that changes the nature of that tag. Now we use ref to give the same identification to multiple pieces of a way, not to give different identities to pieces of a way. I think it might be better to include the number of each stop in the name, but I'm certainly open to suggestion. i suspect your interpretation of ref may be narrower than it should be. i see ref as a way of providing a concise alphanumeric designation, presumably sourced from some authority and clearly visible to someone on the ground, for an entity (whether that entity is a way, relation, or node.) richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Possible coping from Google Maps
Other than Google Mapmaker is there any other ways that Google's data gets updated? ... Does Google import any data from OSM? I know they import data from Wikipedia. See page 2 of https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Eq73uboh5gOiIRf0xmOCCNS9GqQT9o38jA2e1Isog88/edit?usp=sharing After seeing the area, I looked it up on WIkipedia and found the location on GeoHack had two digits transposed in the Lat Long, and this had apparently propagated to Google Maps. Looks like it has moved but still isn't in the correct place on Google Maps search, but is correct following from GeoHack to Google Maps or OSM. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Rogers_%E2%80%93_Wiley_Post_Memorial_Seaplane_Base Michael ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Possible coping from Google Maps
Nothing in that presentation says that Google sourced the data from Wikipedia, just that Wikipedia and Google had the same coordinates, which in this case would be from some official source. The current data on Google also differs from Wikipedia. From: Michael Patrick [mailto:geodes...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 5:14 PM To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Possible coping from Google Maps Other than Google Mapmaker is there any other ways that Google's data gets updated? ... Does Google import any data from OSM? I know they import data from Wikipedia. See page 2 of https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Eq73uboh5gOiIRf0xmOCCNS9GqQT9o38jA2e 1Isog88/edit?usp=sharing After seeing the area, I looked it up on WIkipedia and found the location on GeoHack had two digits transposed in the Lat Long, and this had apparently propagated to Google Maps. Looks like it has moved but still isn't in the correct place on Google Maps search, but is correct following from GeoHack to Google Maps or OSM. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Rogers_%E2%80%93_Wiley_Post_Memorial_Seapl ane_Base Michael ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Possible coping from Google Maps
Nothing in that presentation says that Google sourced the data from Wikipedia, just that Wikipedia and Google had the same coordinates, which in this case would be from some “official” source. That's why I backtracked exhaustively from every official source - Washington State Pilot's Manual, NGA, USGS, NOAA, and lots more. Typical differences in those, but generally in the lake / airport area. The erroneous floating point Lat/Long GeoHack entries, however was identical to the most significant digits out to where the digit positions were switched. I also just plain Googled the digits of the coordinates as a literal string, etc. You may be correct, but if one does the same with any of the official versions, they show up in many, many places. Hence my assumption of a probable data entry / edit typo on GeoHack. The current data on Google also differs from Wikipedia. Yes, and ironically, superficially the point they show is in the land Runway Protection Zone! Michael ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Wilderness Data
Done. Including all Los Padres National Forest wilderness boundaries (of which there are ten). I've also sent the suggester my ten steps for using the data source he pointed me to. We've never met, but now OSM community is that much stronger. Now I'm finding additional correct wiki pages to update (one is already updated with notes of this upload). Thank you for your offer. That also shows good community, Mr. Patrick. Next appears to be a harmonization of the LPNF boundaries themselves and a sharpening up of the leisure=nature_reserve boundaries with landuse=forest. That's getting better, but not yet quite done. SteveA California It;s quite possible I could reproject the data for you in one fell swoop using any of a number of GIS tools at my disposal. JOSM most likely relies on the reprojection transformations in proj4 which is based on parameters in the http://spatialreference.org/http://spatialreference.org/ Sometimes the hangup is something as simple a missing units parameter, or somebody being lazy and checking out a new EPSG number rather than using an existing one. Or the one they used has a microscopically different datum. Or whatever. If somebody hasn't solved this for you, let me know. Michael Patrick ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
