Re: [Talk-us] State ref tags on ways
Interesting note about this in Maryland. My friend Mike showed me that some mappers have been using the *county* route numbers on some county roads in Maryland. All county roads in MD have a 4 digit number that starts with CO, like CO1150. CO is also the state abbr. for Colorado. Chaos ensues on the renders that show shields when people do this in MD. Check out the Colorado shields in Maryland on Mapquest Open. That's sure to confuse people. http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/38.2659/-76.5211layers=Q For this reason, I advocate for the US:MD:CO reference someone mentioned. On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 4:04 AM, Alexander Jones happy5...@gmail.comwrote: Carl Simonson wrote: Let's not forget about segments that are part of multiple routes. For example, there's a section of I-35 in northern Missouri that is both I-35 and US 110. Or in Ames, IA there's a section of US 30 that's also known as I-35 Business. 110 is actually a state route, used to sign the Chicago-Kansas City Expressway. Alexander ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Elliott Plack http://about.me/elliottp ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] State ref tags on ways
On 23:53 2014-03-27, Elliott Plack wrote: Interesting note about this in Maryland. My friend Mike showed me that some mappers have been using the *county* route numbers on some county roads in Maryland. All county roads in MD have a 4 digit number that starts with CO, like CO1150. CO is also the state abbr. for Colorado. Chaos ensues on the renders that show shields when people do this in MD. Check out the Colorado shields in Maryland on Mapquest Open. That's sure to confuse people. http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/38.2659/-76.5211layers=Q For this reason, I advocate for the US:MD:CO reference someone mentioned. Ouch. Counties in Ohio are a mix of CR 123, C-123, CH 123, and yes, CO 123. State routes don't show up at all because we use the SR 123 format. New mappers sometimes change the ref tags specifically because of MapQuest. Make sure to use network=US:MD:County_Name on the route relations and, if these county routes have shields, file a bug to get the shield renderer to support them. [1] Hopefully someday MapQuest will fix their stylesheet. :-) [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/osm-shields -- m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] State ref tags on ways
Hi all, been following the thread, just hadn't yet taken the time to write. Part of the confusion is the lack of a 'definitive' wiki page. Here are some links, partly contradicting each other: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States_roads_tagging https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States_Road_Classification https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/US_highway_signs If we can direct some of the energy exposed in this thread in consolidating / cleaning up these pages, then perhaps this discussion won't recur as much in the future. Here's my take, mostly reiterating what is already mentioned by some before: * Relations using network= and ref= are the preferred way of capturing route information, not ref= on individual ways. The relation pages[1] can help. * The hierarchy used in network= is US:I for interstates, / US:[2 letter state ISO] for state routes, and US:[2 letter state ISO]:[County / parish / borough name] for county level routes. * the ref= on relations only contains the number. Any data consumer composes the full route shield / name from the network and the ref tags. * We don't quite know how to deal with bannered routes yet. * Renderers affect how people map whether we like it or not, so ideally we should have a very visible renderer that follows these conventions. Once things settle down after SOTM US, I am willing to commit some more time to getting a really nice US tile server up and visible on map.openstreetmap.org (or something similar). [1] http://maproulette.org/relationpages On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 4:04 AM, Minh Nguyen m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us wrote: On 23:53 2014-03-27, Elliott Plack wrote: Interesting note about this in Maryland. My friend Mike showed me that some mappers have been using the *county* route numbers on some county roads in Maryland. All county roads in MD have a 4 digit number that starts with CO, like CO1150. CO is also the state abbr. for Colorado. Chaos ensues on the renders that show shields when people do this in MD. Check out the Colorado shields in Maryland on Mapquest Open. That's sure to confuse people. http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/38.2659/-76.5211layers=Q For this reason, I advocate for the US:MD:CO reference someone mentioned. Ouch. Counties in Ohio are a mix of CR 123, C-123, CH 123, and yes, CO 123. State routes don't show up at all because we use the SR 123 format. New mappers sometimes change the ref tags specifically because of MapQuest. Make sure to use network=US:MD:County_Name on the route relations and, if these county routes have shields, file a bug to get the shield renderer to support them. [1] Hopefully someday MapQuest will fix their stylesheet. :-) [1] https://bugs.launchpad.net/osm-shields -- m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Martijn van Exel President, US Chapter OpenStreetMap http://openstreetmap.us/ http://osm.org/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] State ref tags on ways
On 3/28/14 11:33 AM, Elliott Plack wrote: Phil, That's right. I would use unsigned_ref for county routes. In Baltimore County the county route numbers are never signed and not really even advertised. You'd have to look at SHA databases to figure out the ref. Here is an example using the proposed tagging (without using relations). i'm in the process (a little delayed) of changing the CR tagging for Westchester County NY from ref to unsigned_ref, as they don't sign their CRs either. most NY counties sign in some manner, but some do not. some of the counties are really tricky in that they have both County Routes (obvious signs) and County Highways (tiny signs or no signs) which are not precisely the same thing. example from Ulster County: http://goo.gl/maps/7QFwU the CR number is 39, the CH is 52 (the CH is primarily for county road crews for maintenance purposes as i understand it, CRs may be composed of multiple CHs.) i map the CR and do not map the CH. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] State ref tags on ways
* the ref= on relations only contains the number. Any data consumer composes the full route shield / name from the network and the ref tags. Almost. :-) ref= contains the specific identifier of the route. where I-35 splits into I-35E and I-35W (in two different states!) the ref= should be 35E or 35W This is one of those edge cases that we love so much in the road system. I've been thinking of it this way. Network describes the shield. Ref describes the printing on the shield. Now, that ain't right and that is too close to tagging for the renderer, but it's how I keep it clear in my mind. And it's how I got my first shield renderer to work as well as it did.* It was also designed to degrade well. A renderer like the old style lozenge markers would at least get the text right by putting ref= in the lozenge. Similar edge cases exist in US routes and State routes, - the concurrency of US1 and US 9, where ref=1-9 isn't numeric, but is right. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_1/9 - New York State Route 3A where ref=3A and other alphanumeric routes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Route_3A I'm inclined to extend network to include banners, but worry that the ordering of alt, business, truck, loop, spur, whatever, is not obvious. And where do banners like Future fit in with those? I'd hope that we can make sense of the banners in a way that mappers don't need a PhD. in tagging to improve their local data. network:banner= perhaps? Or binary flags network:banner:alt=yes network:banner:truck=yes ? * which was 'as well as it worked, for some value of well' ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] State ref tags on ways
Phil, That's right. I would use unsigned_ref for county routes. In Baltimore County the county route numbers are never signed and not really even advertised. You'd have to look at SHA databases to figure out the ref. Here is an example using the proposed tagging (without using relations). http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/21367512#map=17/39.41966/-76.62618 Elliott On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Phil! Gold phi...@pobox.com wrote: * Elliott Plack elliott.pl...@gmail.com [2014-03-28 02:53 -0400]: Interesting note about this in Maryland. My friend Mike showed me that some mappers have been using the *county* route numbers on some county roads in Maryland. Since Maryland counties don't sign their route numbers[0], they're using unsigned_ref=, not ref= in their way and route relation tagging, right? [0] In any county I'm directly familiar with, at least; I don't go to southern Maryland much, and I don't usually venture far outside the US 50 corridor on the Eastern Shore. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Elliott Plack http://about.me/elliottp ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] State ref tags on ways
* Elliott Plack elliott.pl...@gmail.com [2014-03-28 02:53 -0400]: Interesting note about this in Maryland. My friend Mike showed me that some mappers have been using the *county* route numbers on some county roads in Maryland. Since Maryland counties don't sign their route numbers[0], they're using unsigned_ref=, not ref= in their way and route relation tagging, right? [0] In any county I'm directly familiar with, at least; I don't go to southern Maryland much, and I don't usually venture far outside the US 50 corridor on the Eastern Shore. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
