Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Importing Tesla Superchargers
In many cases, the sucket:tesla_supercharger is different So Tesla is calling their supercharger sockets suckets? How appropriate. -jack On April 13, 2015 4:24:03 PM EDT, Charles Samuels o...@charles.derkarl.org wrote: On Sunday, April 12, 2015 05:33:02 PM Greg Troxel wrote: You may actually be right about the likelihood of correctness, and this may lead to an expected value of 0.1 errors per year. However, imports changing data entered by hand is something that crosses a cultural bright line, and I find it concerning that you're heading down that path. I say that as someone who is usually much more on the pro-import side. To stay within OSM norms, the thing to do is leave the existing data alone, and publish a list someplace of mismatches. It's fine to write to the person who added it and explain that there's a mismatch and ask if they are sure. Ok, I've made a bunch of changes to the code so that I make fewer changes to OSM. Please follow the links in the original email to see the (now updated) OSM changefile. The other notion in imports is to test out the process before you do it. Have you run the conflation code against the osm database, and how many cases are there where osm already has a charger station but the tags dont' match? There are 127 such differences, the vast majority of which are the name tag. I have manually checked this differences: - The name tags I produce are better than the original - If they're not better, I manually adjust them - In many cases, the sucket:tesla_supercharger is different, sometimes capacity is different too, in all cases, my numbers match Tesla.com's - A small number of opening_hours tags are wrong in OSM - The resulting .osm file I produce has the old tags in an XML comment for convenience. - Going forward I can and will look at new conflicts. Charles ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Typos courtesy of fancy auto-spell technology. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Importing Tesla Superchargers
On Sunday, April 12, 2015 05:33:02 PM Greg Troxel wrote: You may actually be right about the likelihood of correctness, and this may lead to an expected value of 0.1 errors per year. However, imports changing data entered by hand is something that crosses a cultural bright line, and I find it concerning that you're heading down that path. I say that as someone who is usually much more on the pro-import side. To stay within OSM norms, the thing to do is leave the existing data alone, and publish a list someplace of mismatches. It's fine to write to the person who added it and explain that there's a mismatch and ask if they are sure. Ok, I've made a bunch of changes to the code so that I make fewer changes to OSM. Please follow the links in the original email to see the (now updated) OSM changefile. The other notion in imports is to test out the process before you do it. Have you run the conflation code against the osm database, and how many cases are there where osm already has a charger station but the tags dont' match? There are 127 such differences, the vast majority of which are the name tag. I have manually checked this differences: - The name tags I produce are better than the original - If they're not better, I manually adjust them - In many cases, the sucket:tesla_supercharger is different, sometimes capacity is different too, in all cases, my numbers match Tesla.com's - A small number of opening_hours tags are wrong in OSM - The resulting .osm file I produce has the old tags in an XML comment for convenience. - Going forward I can and will look at new conflicts. Charles ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Am I doing this right? Houses w/ addresses
Commercial buildings are particularly difficult here in Nashville, TN, because about 80% of commercial buildings have no street address posted on the outside. Apparently, they aren't required to do so. On April 12, 2015 11:50:21 AM CDT, Greg Morgan dr.kludge...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 6:35 PM, Harald Kliems kli...@gmail.com wrote: In areas with detached houses, the Android app Keypadmapper has worked pretty well for me. Once house numbers get too dense (worst case: Montreal, where each apartment in a duplex or triplex will have it's own house number) it starts getting tricky assigning the number to the correct building. And yeah, Mapillary imagery can definitely be useful for address data. Keypad mapper is wonderful because you are not as conspicuous when using pen and paper. I've tried using ranges were I drop the leading two digits while entering five digit numbers. There's a bunch of post processing when you actually enter the data. With any technique that I use, I always feel like Billy in the family circus. It is amazing where people put addresses. Commercial buildings can be the worst case to try and find the number. http://familycircus.com/comics/april-5-2015/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Importing Tesla Superchargers
On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 4:11 PM, Charles Samuels o...@charles.derkarl.org wrote: I'll see those in the changesets I produce. No, as you've described your process, you won't see those OSM mapper changes at all, because they won't show up in your overpass query. You're jumping into an area with some history in OSM, but not seeming to listen or look for that history. Synchronizing data sets can be done safely, but you have to consider the realities of an open source data set anyone can edit. You're not the first to go down this road! ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Importing Tesla Superchargers
On Monday, April 13, 2015 05:01:39 PM Bryce Nesbitt wrote: You'll need to call someone at Tesla to get a better answer: an email has only a low chance of getting a response. what department do you suggest I contact? Charles ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Importing Tesla Superchargers
i saw your post on reddit, i have a friend that works in the hawthorn design studio. i shall see if i can get you some good information. On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 7:30 PM, Charles Samuels o...@charles.derkarl.org wrote: On Monday, April 13, 2015 05:01:39 PM Bryce Nesbitt wrote: You'll need to call someone at Tesla to get a better answer: an email has only a low chance of getting a response. what department do you suggest I contact? Charles ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Importing Tesla Superchargers
On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 11:28 PM, Charles Samuels o...@charles.derkarl.org wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: Keith Winkler keith.wink...@redshiftsoft.com To: Charles Samuels char...@derkarl.org Cc: Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2015 13:00:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Importing into OpenStreetMap Greetings Charles. Sure, no problem. I indeed have no objections to the to geodata derived in part from http://supercharge.info/service/supercharge/allSites being incorporated into the OpenStreetMap project geodata database and released under a free and open license. It is ok to make public my statement to this affect. Cheers, Keith Creator/Owner/Maintainer of superchare.info Charles, To determine if something is licence compatible, you can't just go one level deep. Where did supercharge.info get it's data? Did everyone who contributed do so under a compatible licence? Was anything imported? -- You'll need to call someone at Tesla to get a better answer: an email has only a low chance of getting a response. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Importing Tesla Superchargers
On Monday, April 13, 2015 03:35:20 PM Bryce Nesbitt wrote: Having done a few up to dating scripts: I recommend looking for nearby amenity=charging_station, not name= Supercharger. In fact you may want to make this even more fuzzy, checking for either tag. And That might conflict with a nearby non-Tesla charger. use name:Supercharger not name=Supercharger. What's the difference? I already use a case-insensitive substring search for supercharger. OSM mappers will often change things like a name tag. While it is possibly nobody will ever mess with the data you left in OSM, but chances are periodically someone will hand edit the nodes you left. I'll see those in the changesets I produce. Charles ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Am I doing this right? Houses w/ addresses
That depends, in part, on how long you want to stand there pecking away at your device, and how suspicious folks are likely to become if you stand in front of each building for up to several minutes before moving on. On April 13, 2015 4:02:24 AM CDT, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: IMHO if you are actually entering stuff in to a mobile device, you may as well use vespucci and just do it properly the first time. But hten I'm biased. Simon Am 12.04.2015 um 18:50 schrieb Greg Morgan: On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 6:35 PM, Harald Kliems kli...@gmail.com mailto:kli...@gmail.com wrote: In areas with detached houses, the Android app Keypadmapper has worked pretty well for me. Once house numbers get too dense (worst case: Montreal, where each apartment in a duplex or triplex will have it's own house number) it starts getting tricky assigning the number to the correct building. And yeah, Mapillary imagery can definitely be useful for address data. Keypad mapper is wonderful because you are not as conspicuous when using pen and paper. I've tried using ranges were I drop the leading two digits while entering five digit numbers. There's a bunch of post processing when you actually enter the data. With any technique that I use, I always feel like Billy in the family circus. It is amazing where people put addresses. Commercial buildings can be the worst case to try and find the number. http://familycircus.com/comics/april-5-2015/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Happy weekend - join the #Mapathon!
DC went great too. We went out and micro mapped some of the parks around Dept. of Interior. Expect more updates to come around this area now that people are entering their data: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/38.89465/-77.04202 A few photos of the event here: http://www.meetup.com/MappingDC/photos/26040874/ On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 12:33 PM, Harald Kliems kli...@gmail.com wrote: Madison Maptime Mapathon will begin in 1.5 hours, and it's a beautiful day here! In case there are Madisonians on the list who for some strange reason have missed the event announcment, please do come! http://maptime.io/madison/event/2015/04/12/event/ On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 11:28 AM Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: Just want to report that the OSM NYC Meetup yesterday went great! It's a shame that I didn't know the weather today would be a so much warmer, but there's no way to plan for things like that weeks in advance... - Serge On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 3:56 PM, Alex Barth a...@openstreetmap.us wrote: Join this weekend at the US wide spring #mapathon. Find the official locations on the OpenStreetMap US blog or just join from home. All you need to join is tag your edits #mapathon in the changeset comment. As always, outdoors surveys and indoors activities are welcome! http://openstreetmap.us/2015/04/spring-mapathon/ Happy weekend everyone - Alex -- Alex Barth Vice President OpenStreetMap United States Inc. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Alex Barth Vice President OpenStreetMap United States Inc. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Am I doing this right? Houses w/ addresses
IMHO if you are actually entering stuff in to a mobile device, you may as well use vespucci and just do it properly the first time. But hten I'm biased. Simon Am 12.04.2015 um 18:50 schrieb Greg Morgan: On Sat, Apr 11, 2015 at 6:35 PM, Harald Kliems kli...@gmail.com mailto:kli...@gmail.com wrote: In areas with detached houses, the Android app Keypadmapper has worked pretty well for me. Once house numbers get too dense (worst case: Montreal, where each apartment in a duplex or triplex will have it's own house number) it starts getting tricky assigning the number to the correct building. And yeah, Mapillary imagery can definitely be useful for address data. Keypad mapper is wonderful because you are not as conspicuous when using pen and paper. I've tried using ranges were I drop the leading two digits while entering five digit numbers. There's a bunch of post processing when you actually enter the data. With any technique that I use, I always feel like Billy in the family circus. It is amazing where people put addresses. Commercial buildings can be the worst case to try and find the number. http://familycircus.com/comics/april-5-2015/ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Importing Tesla Superchargers
Do you think anybody will do the effort to correct some of the data, when it will be overwritten again with each update ? That's why people ask not to overwrite the data automatically. regards m p.s. it's annoying that this is cross-posted on 2 mailing lists, I'm only subscribed to one of them. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Importing Tesla Superchargers
Hi, On 04/13/2015 10:23 AM, Greg Morgan wrote: Oh my goodness. Once again we have the alleged notion that imports will drive off mappers without examining any real data. No. It appears that you're going off on a tangent without examining the messages that were written ;) Until now I can't see anyone who has said don't import the superchargers, it will drive off mappers. What I see is don't overwrite existing, manually collected information in an automated process, and that is, as Greg correctly says, a cultural bright line that will not be crossed with impunity. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [Imports] Importing Tesla Superchargers
Oh my goodness. Once again we have the alleged notion that imports will drive off mappers without examining any real data. If we look at the Buckeye Charger we see that fredo_p, a A Hit-and-Run Mapper, added the original node. He's still a mapper. Theodin a German mapper added something. AndiG88 another German mapper added something. Finally njaard touched the same node. The German mappers did nothing different that what njaard did. They looked up that there were 8 charging ports on the Tesla site. I surveyed the site and see no problem with what has gone on with this node. The question I have is should there be eight nodes for each station since one is required for each parking spot along with a wall/building for the transformer where the address is located? The name issue may not be a factor since you can Google on either the address or name. Note that all the mappers involved including me the surveyor are still mapping. I am surprised that we did not loose fredo_p--last modifier of 95 nodes, 16 ways and 0 relationships--with the mapper's first experience of a node that does not render. I hope that we don't loose njaard--last modifier of 2,900 nodes, 663 ways, and 30 relationships--over a node still does not render with a cute little icon. In may case, I lost interest in mapping all EV chargers because there's no reward for mapping them. There was the reward of finding three of the four types of chargers used in the US. There was the reward of understanding the problems with making EV work. Sure the nodes are in the database but I do not experience the reward of seeing the node on the map like a regular gas station node. In my view it is not the importers that are killing mappers it is the cartographers that only show a portion of what can be mapped. https://www.google.com/search?q=mapbox+sudio+data+projectie=utf-8oe=utf-8#q=buckeye+arizona+tesla+charger http://www.teslamotors.com/findus/location?place=buckeyesupercharger http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Cs_us_tesla_buckeye_charger.png http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2776570644/history#map=19/33.44263/-112.55724 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/fredo_p http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?fredo_p http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Theodin http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?Theodin http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/AndiG88 http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?AndiG88 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/njaard http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?njaard I am guessing that this will bounce because I am not on the import list. HTH, Greg On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com wrote: Charles Samuels o...@charles.derkarl.org writes: On Sunday, April 12, 2015 01:12:12 AM Andy Allan wrote: Right now, if a tag doesn't match with supercharge.info, I overwrite OSM's. Could you explain this a bit further? For example, if supercharge.info has capacity 6, and I correct this to capacity 8, does your script then overwrite my tag and change it back to the incorrect value? Correct. My intent is that I expect OSM to be no better than supercharge.info, so for now it's easiest to just overwrite. Then on following runs of it, I manually investigate the changes made in OSM and reconcile the differences. You may actually be right about the likelihood of correctness, and this may lead to an expected value of 0.1 errors per year. However, imports changing data entered by hand is something that crosses a cultural bright line, and I find it concerning that you're heading down that path. I say that as someone who is usually much more on the pro-import side. To stay within OSM norms, the thing to do is leave the existing data alone, and publish a list someplace of mismatches. It's fine to write to the person who added it and explain that there's a mismatch and ask if they are sure. The other notion in imports is to test out the process before you do it. Have you run the conflation code against the osm database, and how many cases are there where osm already has a charger station but the tags dont' match? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Am I doing this right? Houses w/ addresses
My few trial uses of Vespucci lead me to believe that I need an data connection while using it. Am I wrong? With OsmPad, KeyPad or OSMtracker I can collect data while off line which is very important to me. Cheers, Tod On Apr 13, 2015, at 2:02 AM, Simon Poole si...@poole.ch wrote: IMHO if you are actually entering stuff in to a mobile device, you may as well use vespucci and just do it properly the first time. But hten I'm biased. Simon smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
