[Talk-us] Fwd: Re: National Forest nature_reserve?
Steve, Interesting discussion. But, I have one question. After all that, how do I code a national forest? Charlotte Delivered-To: techl...@techlady.com Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2015 18:00:27 -0700 To: Mike Thompson miketh...@gmail.com, Elliott Plack elliott.pl...@gmail.com From: stevea stevea...@softworkers.com Cc: talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] National Forest nature_reserve? X-BeenThere: talk-us@openstreetmap.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.16 List-Id: OpenStreetMap USA talk-us.openstreetmap.org List-Unsubscribe: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/options/talk-us, mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/ List-Post: mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org List-Help: mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=help List-Subscribe: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us, mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=subscribe X-RR-Connecting-IP: 107.14.168.7:25 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=a8O+9CiF c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=PSREjz6f8YchurqagD8nYg==:117 a=CRRwbcOFI+X/mpt5jVcafw==:17 a=ayC55rCo:8 a=0oj8HZZGiqAA:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=Eor1iV6w:8 a=TZb1taSU:8 a=595fbENk:8 a=oTtuw1C_:8 a=lyYuGu4CHa5PaZGX25icmyaRxzw=:19 a=XAFQembCKUMA:10 a=P426Sab11vEsAsaxPfgA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 On not-so-long-ago USFS polygons, I tagged BOTH boundary=protected_area, leaving older landuse=forest and leisure=nature_reserve tags as they are. When protected Wilderness, on initial creation, my tagging soups up to reflect that Wilderness/Forest distinction: a protect_class 6 and a 1b are distinct. Leaving existing tagging alone seems best unless it is clear a newer method is a better method, as now extant semantics can be easily lost. OSM editors are good hearted, wishing to improve as we edit. I go along with new tagging schema as I learn them and become smarter at using them, as we should. Wholesale removal of landuse or leisure tags? Well, now slow down. I don't think I heard THAT. Something about old and new styles are out there, yes, I agree. So, it is historical and it is emerging. I've been around in OSM to see it happen and participate in it over the years. Older tags getting deprecated might speed up that very decay cycle (even as I hit Send). Yet, leaving them (abandoned railroads anybody? no scratch that as rhetorical) largely as tagged now satisfies a current need. Co-existence and peace through conversation, what do you know?! (Elliott Plack says we see both, I agree). We have a decent early-21st-century fix on more than a few USFS boundaries with landuse and leisure tags. I see no reason to go out of our way to remove those tags (in favor of protect_class tag) as they co-exist just fine. Sure, protect_class is a fine way to mean a certain semantic. Yet, too, this is a forest boundary. What we (the USA, OSM's wiki...) say a forest is, after all. That has a certain standing to remain as is: these are forests. Well, as of 3.6 years ago, maybe. We get smarter as we get older, right?! SteveA California ___ Talk-us mailing list mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.orgTalk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com Skype: thetechlady ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] A note about bags and security at SOTM-US
Hi everyone, Thanks for the questions on backpacks at State of the Map US this weekend. We have to follow the standard UN security policies, which limit bags to those smaller than 14 wide x 13 high x 4 deep. We don't know how specifically these policies are followed in person, but to avoid any problems getting in on Saturday we recommend sticking to them as closely as you can. We also recommend giving their list of what's permitted a thorough read: http://visit.un.org/content/security. You can expect a process much like airport security when you get to the building. See you soon! Bonnie On Jun 4, 2015, at 9:31 AM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: On 6/4/15 2:03 AM, Toby Murray wrote: Well ok, I guess this is primarily targeted at anyone who was planning on bringing a backpack. I'm sure I can fit what I need for a day in a bag this size as well. But any normal backpack is going to be 16-18 inches tall and too large for the UN. This is what I have used at previous conferences because it's what I happen to have and I've seen plenty of others with backpacks as well so I thought it was worth a warning. And while my laptop bag IS on the large side, it is by no means an unreasonable size to grab as a carry-on for an airplane ride and expect to use at the conference once you get there. Again, I've certainly seen 16-18 briefcases and laptop bags at other conferences so it is worth double checking. i'd like some clarification on this as well. i have a rather standard sized shoulder bag for my laptop and it's 3 inches too wide. in fact, a lot of laptops are too big to fit the maximum sized bag listed. my macbook air is 13 wide, i will need to scramble to find a conforming 14 wide bag before tomorrow at lunch time. a 15 laptop would be problematic. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] A note about bags and security at SOTM-US
On 6/4/15 9:56 AM, Bonnie Bogle wrote: Hi everyone, Thanks for the questions on backpacks at State of the Map US this weekend. We have to follow the standard UN security policies, which limit bags to those smaller than 14 wide x 13 high x 4 deep. We don't know how specifically these policies are followed in person, but to avoid any problems getting in on Saturday we recommend sticking to them as closely as you can. this is smaller than a standard briefcase. any presenters who don't follow talk-us may be very surprised on saturday morning if this is enforced for conference attendees. i strongly recommend checking with the UN on this as it's pretty severe. as it is, i'm going to have to make an emergency run to staples tomorrow morning to see what they have in stock, and i'll have to buy two if my daughter's backpack doesn't pass muster. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Paved Shoulder Tag for US Highways
Larry, I think it's important to keep shoulders and bike lanes separate because they are governed by different rules. I'm assuming those rules are different state by state, but for example I would think that in many places it is illegal for motor vehicles to pass in a dedicated bike lane, whereas passing on the shoulder is permissible (under certain conditions only, of course). Similar differences probably exist for the rules regarding stopping and parking. My rule of thumb is: If there aren't any signs or pavement markings involving bikes, it's a shoulder, not a bike lane. Then it becomes important to tag attributes of the shoulder such as surface and width. Harald. On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 6:12 PM Larry-CalRoadRunner calroadrun...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Everyone, I would like to thank everyone for the quick response. I agree that the tag cycleway=shoulder is the correct tag to use, but for it to be effective, it must be used consistently. Otherwise anyone trying to create a cycle map for cyclists, will have a very confusing data. The type of Shoulders that cyclists need to know is Code (2 or 3) [image: xFigure 4.49 shows an example of a bituminous shoulder, which would be identified as Code 2 for this Data Item.] and Code 4 [image: Figure 4.50 shows an example of a stabilized shoulder, which would be identified as Code 4 for this Data Item.] Special Thank you to Thomas Roff for this link http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/hpms/fieldmanual/chapter4c.cfm I mentioned before that I added the tag cycleway=lane to the Silverado Trail, since the shoulder is marked with bike lane signs and painted bike lane signs and logos on the shoulder. I have ridden this road for years and I can remember when this was nothing but a highway with paved shoulders and nothing to indicate that it is a bike lane. I am going to include a link to my personal YouTube Channel, so that everyone can see what I am talking about. It starts on Trancas Rd. in Napa, Ca. No shoulder at first, then paved shoulder and finally the Silverado Trail with the bike lane signs and logo on the paved shoulder https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek0M8wtGhSY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek0M8wtGhSYindex=21list=PL5do4uwsHN3XRUuCuNPGfs6OX9_CF-j5F 4 minutes and 35 seconds For those of you that would like to see the entire bike ride, then click on this link to see all of the various road conditions encountered https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lmxxZEb_jk This is a fast motion video of most of the total ride including Hwy 29 with paved shoulders. If you are not a bicycle rider this video will give you an idea of what it is to ride a bicycle in the US. This is typical of many of the conditions encountered, if you are a long distance cyclist. According to current practice this is tagged as cycleway=lane for the Silverado Trail. For part of Trancas Rd. The appropriate tag should be cycleway=shoulder just before arriving at the Silverado Trail. My question is does the Silverado Trail qualify as a true dedicated cycleway or is it just a highway with paved shoulders. Currently, I see on the current cycle maps that roads with paved shoulders are currently tag as cycleway=lane if they have the bike signs and logo. I also see roads that do not have any bike signs and logo also tagged with cycleway=lane According to the wiki tag most of the roads tagged as cycleway=lane, do not fall into the strict definition of a dedicated cycle lane. This is why I am asking for a published wiki tag describing roads with paved shoulders, so that everyone in the world will used the appropriate tag when mapping roads. Thank You, Larry-California RoadRunner ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] A note about bags and security at SOTM-US
Greetings all. I called the UN (at 212-963-4475 then 0, 1 ask for security) and asked for you all. They said that laptop bags and standard briefcases are fine, even if they're larger than 14. They said just* no suitcases or carry-on bags*. So, I think you will probably be fine with a lightweight laptop bag. Interestingly, they weren't aware of any conferences this weekend. Hopefully that gets communicated to them soon. :) Elliott On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 10:23 AM Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: On 6/4/15 10:09 AM, Richard Welty wrote: i strongly recommend checking with the UN on this as it's pretty severe. as it is, i'm going to have to make an emergency run to staples tomorrow morning to see what they have in stock, and i'll have to buy two if my daughter's backpack doesn't pass muster. richard ok, if this rule applies, it will be a disaster. a quick review of the staples website shows a tiny number of bags that might work (2 or 3), all of which are available online, 10 business days to ship. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] A note about bags and security at SOTM-US
On 6/4/15 10:09 AM, Richard Welty wrote: i strongly recommend checking with the UN on this as it's pretty severe. as it is, i'm going to have to make an emergency run to staples tomorrow morning to see what they have in stock, and i'll have to buy two if my daughter's backpack doesn't pass muster. richard ok, if this rule applies, it will be a disaster. a quick review of the staples website shows a tiny number of bags that might work (2 or 3), all of which are available online, 10 business days to ship. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] A note about bags and security at SOTM-US
Well ok, I guess this is primarily targeted at anyone who was planning on bringing a backpack. I'm sure I can fit what I need for a day in a bag this size as well. But any normal backpack is going to be 16-18 inches tall and too large for the UN. This is what I have used at previous conferences because it's what I happen to have and I've seen plenty of others with backpacks as well so I thought it was worth a warning. And while my laptop bag IS on the large side, it is by no means an unreasonable size to grab as a carry-on for an airplane ride and expect to use at the conference once you get there. Again, I've certainly seen 16-18 briefcases and laptop bags at other conferences so it is worth double checking. Toby On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 11:58 PM, Darrell Fuhriman darr...@garnix.org wrote: maximum size for all bags as: 14 (35cm) wide x 13 (33cm) high x 4 (10cm) deep That is *TINY*! I mean even most Hello Kitty backpacks for children are 16 tall. This is slightly larger than my messenger bag (or a briefcase), which I don't consider to be tiny. I can comfortably fit a laptop, a book, a notepad, plus various sundries with room to spare. Maybe I'm crazy, but that seems wholly adequate for a day at a conference. d. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] National Forest nature_reserve?
stevea stevea...@softworkers.com writes: I tag landuse=forest on National Forests. If there are any included wilderness areas, I tag them leisure=nature_reserve. Sometimes these boundaries can be quite complex via multipolygons, but I try to keep it as simple as this, and I seldom get people arguing with these tagging conventions. That seems mostly reasonable, but there are a few subtleties: wilderness, if it means what I think, means no numan activity is permitted except for hiking and leave-no-trace camping, more or less. So that is not landuse=forest (forestry), it's landuse=conservation. if there is wilderness that people are not permitted to enter at all, then it's still landuse=conservation (and access=no), but it's not leisure=nature_reserve. leisure=nature_reserve is only for areas where hiking/etc. is allowed/encouraged and for which the primary purpose is to preserve the land in a natural state. Around me there are smallish chunks of land (not big enough to use the wilderness word, maybe 10 acres) that people aren't allowed to go onto, and many others they are. I've tagged the non-use ones as just landuse=conservation. Often they are owned by a trust or have a conservation easement, but there's no special federal/etc. status. So boundary=protected_area feels off (but I haven't slogged through the definitions!). boundary=protected_area to delineate that some things are prohibited within the boundary is ok (although if one is trying to describe the interior rather than the boundary, I still think it's semantically broken, but that's really a quibble about using the word boundary). However, I think most every bit of land, eventually, should have a landuse= tag, and that the landuse values should have some sort of mutually exclusive and jointly exhaustive coverage. The last point is partly about consistency and ease of data interpretation. having landuse on everything means that if you care about landuse you can just read it. Otherwise you have to know about all the various boundary=protected_area subcases and infer what the landuse is. pgpkFglCU9ITb.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] A note about bags and security at SOTM-US
On 6/4/15 2:03 AM, Toby Murray wrote: Well ok, I guess this is primarily targeted at anyone who was planning on bringing a backpack. I'm sure I can fit what I need for a day in a bag this size as well. But any normal backpack is going to be 16-18 inches tall and too large for the UN. This is what I have used at previous conferences because it's what I happen to have and I've seen plenty of others with backpacks as well so I thought it was worth a warning. And while my laptop bag IS on the large side, it is by no means an unreasonable size to grab as a carry-on for an airplane ride and expect to use at the conference once you get there. Again, I've certainly seen 16-18 briefcases and laptop bags at other conferences so it is worth double checking. i'd like some clarification on this as well. i have a rather standard sized shoulder bag for my laptop and it's 3 inches too wide. in fact, a lot of laptops are too big to fit the maximum sized bag listed. my macbook air is 13 wide, i will need to scramble to find a conforming 14 wide bag before tomorrow at lunch time. a 15 laptop would be problematic. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
