Re: [Talk-us] Find missing roads

[Martijn van Exel]

Paul,
 
The GPS data is from Scout (US as well as Skobbler / Global) users. It is 
collected during navigation sessions as well as in Scout Global ‘free drive’ 
mode.

The fact that you see incomplete sets is to do with pretty high thresholds we 
set for the validity of a tile as a whole. We want to prevent that we present 
too many false positives that would make the experience frustrating.

It turns out that Scout is in fact used a fair bit by commercial drivers, so 
you’ll see a bunch of tiles depicting access=private service roads on factory 
lots and so on. There’s not really a great way for us to filter those out up 
front, other than convincing drivers to shut down their nav session before they 
enter a private road ;)

If you look closely you’ll also see traces from trains, airplanes etc. People 
use Scout in some places we had not really imagined! We try to filter these out 
based on speed and we’re improving the algorithm to filter out traces that 
match to railways in the future as well.

Thanks for sharing your observations!
Martijn

> On Sep 30, 2015, at 12:40 PM, Paul Johnson  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 10:11 AM, Martijn van Exel  > wrote:
> Our OSM team cooked up something new. A missing roads plugin for JOSM. I 
> think it's pretty nice but I would really like to hear what you think. 
>  
> Neat, has potential.
> 
> You can read some more about it on my diary (http://bit.ly/missingroads 
> ) but it's basically what it says on the tin. The 
> plugin will show where we think roads are missing from OSM based on GPS data 
> so you can add them :)
> 
>  Based on whose GPS data from where?  I trust the source in this question is 
> completely halal, kosher, gluten-free, vegan, organic, free-range, 
> all-natural data, but some of the output I'm getting from it is rather odd.  
> Take, for example, this screenshot in JOSM near node 148319848 
>  in my 
> neighborhood.
> 
> 
> ​
> Other than highlighting my own inadvertently selective blindness (what with 
> having not mapped the large and aging chain link fence factory on the 
> northeast corner of the intersection; Brinks behind my favorite QuikTrip 
>  only 
> recently appeared on Bing), I do find two things remarkable about this 
> plugin's output:
> It seems to have picked out an incomplete set based on the paths relative to 
> imagery.
> I have no way of being able to survey the exact location of the GPS output 
> from the plugin from the ground (it's inside a fence factory, of course it's 
> fenced off!), so I can only assume the GPS was located on one of those big 
> diesel-powered forklifts.
> 
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Find missing roads

[Martijn van Exel]

Marc — you should be able to click on the ‘mark as fixed’ (lock) and ‘mark as 
invalid’ (exclamation mark) buttons in the missing roads panel after you make 
the missing roads layer active and select one or more tiles. Let me know if it 
doesn’t work for you.

Martijn

> On Oct 1, 2015, at 7:42 AM, Marc Zoutendijk  wrote:
> 
> Op 30 sep. 2015, om 17:11 heeft Martijn van Exel  > het volgende geschreven:
>> 
>> Take it for a spin and let me know what you think, what we could improve, or 
>> just if you like it!
> 
> I did and it works, but how can I indicate that I “solved” the tiles? In JOSM 
> the tabs with the lock cannot be unlocked.
> 
> Marc.
> 

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Find missing roads

[Paul Johnson]

On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 10:58 AM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:

> Paul,
>
> The GPS data is from Scout (US as well as Skobbler / Global) users. It is
> collected during navigation sessions as well as in Scout Global ‘free
> drive’ mode.
>
> The fact that you see incomplete sets is to do with pretty high thresholds
> we set for the validity of a tile as a whole. We want to prevent that we
> present too many false positives that would make the experience frustrating.
>
> It turns out that Scout is in fact used a fair bit by commercial drivers,
> so you’ll see a bunch of tiles depicting access=private service roads on
> factory lots and so on. There’s not really a great way for us to filter
> those out up front, other than convincing drivers to shut down their nav
> session before they enter a private road ;)
>

I actually consider this a good thing since private roads are something
that are underserved right now.  It would be nice to be able to enable a
more complete data layer in order to see what was filtered out to avoid a
false positive, however, since it can be hard to determine if a driveway is
the one commonly used or if a driveway with a gate on it is manned or
simply there for the convenience of a fire crew to crash open in an
emergency (is my region the only one where fire trucks are equipped with
ramming bumpers and fire crews prepared to run over fences and locked
gates?)


> If you look closely you’ll also see traces from trains, airplanes etc.
> People use Scout in some places we had not really imagined! We try to
> filter these out based on speed and we’re improving the algorithm to filter
> out traces that match to railways in the future as well.
>

Granted, plane might not be very useful, but for the other modes, having
some kind of color coding to share what vehicle type is being used would be
awesome.

As a Scout user, I'd really find it handy if it had some of the warning
alarms and lane guidance that Osmand has...I'd really love to be able to
hold an Android app up as a real Garmin killer in terms of functionality.
Maybe include a truck mode where you can enter vehicle width, height,
weight and length so those restrictions can be taken into consideration as
well.  Osmand has a truck mode, given the people I've met on the road
driving a truck myself, I think Osmand in general is probably a lot too
fiddly for the segment of "commercial drivers who aren't GIS nerds", which
is only slightly larger than the segment of "commercial drivers who are not
me."
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Find missing roads

[Martijn van Exel]

Shawn — 

Thanks for sharing your observations, I will take them, together with other 
ideas and reports in this thread, back to the team. We will then see how we can 
improve on what we have.

My response to Paul hopefully answers your question on the ‘partial’ traces. 
It’s a matter of setting pretty aggressive thresholds in order to prevent too 
many false positives.

Martijn

> On Oct 1, 2015, at 12:40 AM, Shawn K. Quinn  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 2015-09-30 at 15:11 +, Martijn van Exel wrote:
>> Hi all, 
>> 
>> 
>> Our OSM team cooked up something new. A missing roads plugin for JOSM.
>> I think it's pretty nice but I would really like to hear what you
>> think. 
>> 
>> 
>> You can read some more about it on my diary
>> (http://bit.ly/missingroads) but it's basically what it says on the
>> tin. The plugin will show where we think roads are missing from OSM
>> based on GPS data so you can add them :)
>> 
>> 
>> Take it for a spin and let me know what you think, what we could
>> improve, or just if you like it!
> 
> First observations:
> 
> I had to use the browser first instead of hunting for an area in JOSM.
> Once I did, I noticed most tiles only showed part of a road, not the
> whole thing.
> 
> The JOSM plugin really should allow selections of multiple types instead
> of restricting one to parking *or* roads *or mixed.
> 
> That said, I see the potential for this to be very useful. I added a
> couple of roads with it in the Houston, TX, area already.
> 
> -- 
> Shawn K. Quinn >
> 
> 
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us 
> 
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Find missing roads

[Martijn van Exel]

:D

We may need to add this to the disclaimer: ‘may contain traces of nuts’!

Martijn

> On Sep 30, 2015, at 11:45 PM, Jack Burke  wrote:
> 
> Clearly, your sample contained nuts. 
> 
> 
> On September 30, 2015 2:40:37 PM EDT, Paul Johnson  
> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 10:11 AM, Martijn van Exel  > wrote:
> Our OSM team cooked up something new. A missing roads plugin for JOSM. I 
> think it's pretty nice but I would really like to hear what you think. 
>  
> Neat, has potential.
> 
> You can read some more about it on my diary (http://bit.ly/missingroads 
> ) but it's basically what it says on the tin. The 
> plugin will show where we think roads are missing from OSM based on GPS data 
> so you can add them :)
> 
>  Based on whose GPS data from where?  I trust the source in this question is 
> completely halal, kosher, gluten-free, vegan, organic, free-range, 
> all-natural data, but some of the output I'm getting from it is rather odd.  
> Take, for example, this screenshot in JOSM near node 148319848 
>  in my 
> neighborhood.
> 
> 
> ​
> Other than highlighting my own inadvertently selective blindness (what with 
> having not mapped the large and aging chain link fence factory on the 
> northeast corner of the intersection; Brinks behind my favorite QuikTrip 
>  only 
> recently appeared on Bing), I do find two things remarkable about this 
> plugin's output:
> It seems to have picked out an incomplete set based on the paths relative to 
> imagery.
> I have no way of being able to survey the exact location of the GPS output 
> from the plugin from the ground (it's inside a fence factory, of course it's 
> fenced off!), so I can only assume the GPS was located on one of those big 
> diesel-powered forklifts.
> 
> 
> 
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Typos courtesy of fancy auto-spell technology.
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Consider running for the OSM US board? Join the October 1st campfire chat!

[Alex Barth]

The campfire takes place tonight 8PM Eastern on Hangout:
https://plus.google.com/events/crkhc210lhe1mm8uumnv22tmsjc

You can join even if you haven't RSVP'ed. Please find more detailed
information and alternatives to Hangout on the event page.

Looking forward!

On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 9:22 PM, Alex Barth  wrote:

> *RSVP for an October 1st campfire chat with active board members* to
> learn more about activities of the organization and responsibilities of the
> board:
>
>
> https://docs.google.com/a/openstreetmap.us/forms/d/1s7H_jnL6SBRGcico33nqCM0ZQmVCDu5WyaadluwV6u4/viewform
>
> Background:
>
> *October 12-18th are OpenStreetMap US board elections*. Consider running!
> OpenStreetMap US is a great place to promote OpenStreetMap with events and
> outreach programs small (think mapathons) and large (think State of the Map
> US).
>
> http://openstreetmap.us/2015/09/do-you-want-to-be-on-the-osm-us-board/
>
> --
> Alex Barth
> Vice President
> OpenStreetMap United States Inc.
>



-- 
Alex Barth
Vice President
OpenStreetMap United States Inc.
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Find missing roads

[Shawn K. Quinn]

On Wed, 2015-09-30 at 15:11 +, Martijn van Exel wrote:
> Hi all, 
> 
> 
> Our OSM team cooked up something new. A missing roads plugin for JOSM.
> I think it's pretty nice but I would really like to hear what you
> think. 
> 
> 
> You can read some more about it on my diary
> (http://bit.ly/missingroads) but it's basically what it says on the
> tin. The plugin will show where we think roads are missing from OSM
> based on GPS data so you can add them :)
> 
> 
> Take it for a spin and let me know what you think, what we could
> improve, or just if you like it!

First observations:

I had to use the browser first instead of hunting for an area in JOSM.
Once I did, I noticed most tiles only showed part of a road, not the
whole thing.

The JOSM plugin really should allow selections of multiple types instead
of restricting one to parking *or* roads *or mixed.

That said, I see the potential for this to be very useful. I added a
couple of roads with it in the Houston, TX, area already.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 


___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Should driveways be on OSM?

[Minh Nguyen]

On 2015-09-30 08:34, Greg Morgan wrote:

On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 8:48 AM, Toby Murray  wrote:

I run into this as well. If I don't see anything close to the way on
imagery I definitely have very little problem deleting them.

I also question the access=private tagging although not because of the
rendering. I mean technically it is correct I suppose but if you are
trying to route to an address at the end of a long driveway, the
router should tell you to go down the driveway. Tagging it as



If this really is true, then perhaps you should file a bug report.  If
I accurately map a residential gated community with access=private,
show the gates, then wouldn't that be more valuable to set what
expectations are required to get into the area.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/16842943#map=18/33.78757/-111.98892


Toby is suggesting that service=driveway should imply access=destination 
unless otherwise specified. The wiki is full of statements that one tag 
implies another tag. For example, highway=motorway_link implies 
surface=paved. [1]


But you do have a point: a router could route over access=private and 
access=destination if there's no other possible route, yet avoid 
access=private otherwise (to avoid riding roughshod over a private drive 
that happens to make a good shortcut). The user interface would have to 
make clear that the route includes a private drive, similar to the toll 
road warnings that some routers give.


[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway=motorway_link


Who are these data consumers that you speak of?  If they are
freeloaders, I could careless about them.  One of shifts that I have
noticed over the years is that we appear to no longer care about what
mappers do or how we improve the ecosystem for mappers but I hear all
about data consumers.  The data consumers need to adapt to OSM and not
the other way around.


Data consumers are part of the OSM ecosystem; we don't map in a vacuum. 
All the renderers and routers available from the osm.org front page are 
data consumers, after all. For better or worse, renderers and routers 
already "adapt to OSM" by normalizing diverse tagging styles and 
preprocessing away common errors. (A highly opinionated data consumer 
would fail to support a good chunk of the dataset.) That's not to say 
the current crop of routers is unimpeachable, but I don't think they 
should be viewed in an adversarial light.


--
m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us


___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

[Talk-us] USBRS WikiProject enjoys success for Autumn 2015 round

[stevea]

OSM's USBRS WikiProject has just had its most successful "round" (of 
AASHTO ballots, just approved) yet:  eight United States Bicycle 
Routes were just AASHTO approved.  This happens twice a year, we just 
had the Autumn 2015 vote.


This WikiProject owes recent and serious gratitude to the following 
individuals:


* Andrew Guertin for entering a significant chunk of USBR 7 in 
Vermont (from Canada to Burlington),
* Mike Nice for entering USBR 21 in Georgia and seeds/stubs for 
proposed USBRs 321 and 521,

* Joe Kallo for entering USBR 36 in Indiana,
* Minh Nguyen for entering USBR 50A in Ohio, and for his co-founding 
of this project and making the beautiful SVG shields for the route 
signs,
* Ethan Nelson for entering USBR 76 in Kansas -- and for finding 
errors from KDOT which made the full round trip from KDOT to AASHTO 
to Ethan to OSM to AASHTO to approval to display in OSM, and 
especially
* Greg Morgan for entering USBR 90 in Arizona (a HERCULEAN effort!) 
and acting as much as "co-pilot" on this project as anybody has yet 
done so far.


I am deeply appreciative to the wonderful, cooperative, 
consensus-based, roll-up-our-sleeves-and-do-it approach that 
everybody who contributed has offered this round.  It is a testament 
to the spirit of OSM that "we can do this," and indeed, except for a 
bit of distance in Vermont, a couple of gaps in Indiana, and two 
small ambiguities around Tucson, we are essentially done for this 
round.  We might be a bit "chartreuse" (mostly green but a bit of 
yellow) in our wiki status for Approved routes, but I'll take that! 
Congratulations!


In brief, semi-annually (in Spring and Autumn), state DOTs provide 
their states' proposals to AASHTO as a "ballot" from the People of 
that state (through the DOT) for a national bicycle route in that 
state to become part of the USBRS network.  In this OSM project, we 
enter data of the thousands of kilometers of route while the ballot 
works its way through AASHTO as a proposal (though it has been 
technically approved by the People of the state, the AASHTO 
ballot/approval process "officializes" the route into the national 
USBRS network).  Finally, when AASHTO approves each state DOT ballot 
for a USBR, (as happened last week), if/as the route has been entered 
into OSM (and this time, all were, nearly every mile), we simply 
delete the "state=proposed" tag, and (if necessary) incorporate the 
route into super-relations so they stitch together the USBRS across 
the nation.


This is a wonderful collaboration, and I am delighted to report on 
the positive progress we have enjoyed.


Thanks again to the great volunteers and dedicated spirit in this OSM project,

SteveA
USBRS WikiProject coordinator
California

___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us

Re: [Talk-us] Self Storage Places

[Hans De Kryger]

Thanks guys!

*Regards,*

*Hans*

*http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TheDutchMan13
*

On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 10:42 PM, Jack Burke  wrote:

> I use commercial.
>
> To me, retail implies that you can take home a product (even if it's food
> in your stomach). Commercial means you are buying a service.
>
> -jack
>
>
>
> On October 1, 2015 1:35:14 AM EDT, Clifford Snow 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 9:53 PM, Hans De Kryger <
>> hans.dekryge...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> What landuse should i use for Self Storage places?
>>
>>
>> I'd most likely use retail but commercial depending on the location,might
>> also be appropriate.
>>
>>
>> --
>> @osm_seattle
>> osm_seattle.snowandsnow.us
>> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
>>
>> --
>>
>> Talk-us mailing list
>> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>
>>
> --
> Typos courtesy of fancy auto-spell technology.
>
___
Talk-us mailing list
Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us