Re: [Talk-us] Gravel roads and surface tags in the US

[Harald Kliems]

I think compacted is definitely the best way to tag, but I agree with
Toby's point that common terms conflicting with OSM terminology is going to
lead to lots of errors. Looking at my own edits, I have mistakenly used
surface=gravel quite frequently. Not really sure what to do -- a "did you
really mean to tag 'surface=gravel'?" error message/tooltip in the editor?
I think actual gravel in the sense of the wiki is quite rare.

 Harald.

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 6:38 PM Jack Burke  wrote:

> I've been tagging roads like that as compacted, once I learned more about
> the surfacing tech.
>
>
> -jack
>
> --
> Typos courtesy of fancy auto spell technology
>
> On April 18, 2018 6:19:07 PM EDT, Toby Murray 
> wrote:
>
>> I recently bought a gravel bicycle to ride on the many gravel roads in
>> Kansas. Like this one:
>> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=nYO4JI46L0SWzNAQlLT4kA=photo
>>
>> First question: What would you call this road? Obviously I am calling
>> it a "gravel road" but a couple of people have said they would call it
>> a "dirt road" so I'm curious if there are any other common terms to
>> describe this type of road in different regions of the US.
>>
>> Second question: How would you tag this road? There is a
>> surface=gravel tag that is in pretty common usage in Kansas and
>> neighboring states. However looking at the wiki page for the surface
>> tag[1], this is not wiki-correct. According to that page
>> surface=gravel is to be used for large rocks (4-8cm) that are laid
>> down loosely like those typically used as ballast on railroad beds. I
>> believe The Mapillary picture I linked to would be considered
>> surface=compacted according to the wiki because the rocks are much
>> smaller and the surface is stabilized with a binding agent. There is a
>> big difference between the two when it comes to bicycle riding.
>> Railroad ballast is bone jarring and flat tire inducing whereas gravel
>> roads are pretty manageable on the right kind of bike.
>>
>> But If you call something a "gravel road" and there is a "gravel"
>> option in the editor preset for the surface tag, people are going to
>> choose the gravel option and not look for "compacted" since that is
>> not a common term here. I assume it is a more common term in the UK
>> and that is why it is used in OSM.
>>
>> And lastly there are trails that are surfaced with a similar material
>> but crushed to a smaller size like here:
>> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=iQNqP-dfQ-Rm6AD9REMsgQ=photo
>>
>> I'm trying to decide if that is better as surface=compacted or
>> surface=fine_gravel although fine_gravel seems to be a slightly
>> different process from what I see on the wiki.
>>
>> Maybe this should be directed at the tagging list but I thought I
>> would get thoughts from the US community since we seem to be the ones
>> using the tag incorrectly (according to the wiki)
>>
>> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface
>>
>> Toby
>>
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>>
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>>
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Re: [Talk-us] Gravel roads and surface tags in the US

[Dave Swarthout]

This topic gets revisited from time to time and as you'll see, opinions
differ about how to tag these surfaces. For your example, I would tag it as
surface=gravel and tracktype=grade1. You can also include a smoothness=*
tag to further characterize its drivability.

I have never seen a highway for automotive or truck use that used railroad
ballast for a surface. And if I did, I would avoid driving on it at all
costs.

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 4:36 PM, Jack Burke  wrote:

> I've been tagging roads like that as compacted, once I learned more about
> the surfacing tech.
>
> -jack
>
> --
> Typos courtesy of fancy auto spell technology
>
> On April 18, 2018 6:19:07 PM EDT, Toby Murray 
> wrote:
>
>> I recently bought a gravel bicycle to ride on the many gravel roads in
>> Kansas. Like this one:
>> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=nYO4JI46L0SWzNAQlLT4kA=photo
>>
>> First question: What would you call this road? Obviously I am calling
>> it a "gravel road" but a couple of people have said they would call it
>> a "dirt road" so I'm curious if there are any other common terms to
>> describe this type of road in different regions of the US.
>>
>> Second question: How would you tag this road? There is a
>> surface=gravel tag that is in pretty common usage in Kansas and
>> neighboring states. However looking at the wiki page for the surface
>> tag[1], this is not wiki-correct. According to that page
>> surface=gravel is to be used for large rocks (4-8cm) that are laid
>> down loosely like those typically used as ballast on railroad beds. I
>> believe The Mapillary picture I linked to would be considered
>> surface=compacted according to the wiki because the rocks are much
>> smaller and the surface is stabilized with a binding agent. There is a
>> big difference between the two when it comes to bicycle riding.
>> Railroad ballast is bone jarring and flat tire inducing whereas gravel
>> roads are pretty manageable on the right kind of bike.
>>
>> But If you call something a "gravel road" and there is a "gravel"
>> option in the editor preset for the surface tag, people are going to
>> choose the gravel option and not look for "compacted" since that is
>> not a common term here. I assume it is a more common term in the UK
>> and that is why it is used in OSM.
>>
>> And lastly there are trails that are surfaced with a similar material
>> but crushed to a smaller size like here:
>> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=iQNqP-dfQ-Rm6AD9REMsgQ=photo
>>
>> I'm trying to decide if that is better as surface=compacted or
>> surface=fine_gravel although fine_gravel seems to be a slightly
>> different process from what I see on the wiki.
>>
>> Maybe this should be directed at the tagging list but I thought I
>> would get thoughts from the US community since we seem to be the ones
>> using the tag incorrectly (according to the wiki)
>>
>> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface
>>
>> Toby
>>
>> --
>>
>> Talk-us mailing list
>> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>
>>
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-- 
Dave Swarthout
Homer, Alaska
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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Re: [Talk-us] Gravel roads and surface tags in the US

[Jack Burke]

I've been tagging roads like that as compacted, once I learned more about the 
surfacing tech.

-jack

-- 
Typos courtesy of fancy auto spell technology

On April 18, 2018 6:19:07 PM EDT, Toby Murray  wrote:
>I recently bought a gravel bicycle to ride on the many gravel roads in
>Kansas. Like this one:
>https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=nYO4JI46L0SWzNAQlLT4kA=photo
>
>First question: What would you call this road? Obviously I am calling
>it a "gravel road" but a couple of people have said they would call it
>a "dirt road" so I'm curious if there are any other common terms to
>describe this type of road in different regions of the US.
>
>Second question: How would you tag this road? There is a
>surface=gravel tag that is in pretty common usage in Kansas and
>neighboring states. However looking at the wiki page for the surface
>tag[1], this is not wiki-correct. According to that page
>surface=gravel is to be used for large rocks (4-8cm) that are laid
>down loosely like those typically used as ballast on railroad beds. I
>believe The Mapillary picture I linked to would be considered
>surface=compacted according to the wiki because the rocks are much
>smaller and the surface is stabilized with a binding agent. There is a
>big difference between the two when it comes to bicycle riding.
>Railroad ballast is bone jarring and flat tire inducing whereas gravel
>roads are pretty manageable on the right kind of bike.
>
>But If you call something a "gravel road" and there is a "gravel"
>option in the editor preset for the surface tag, people are going to
>choose the gravel option and not look for "compacted" since that is
>not a common term here. I assume it is a more common term in the UK
>and that is why it is used in OSM.
>
>And lastly there are trails that are surfaced with a similar material
>but crushed to a smaller size like here:
>https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=iQNqP-dfQ-Rm6AD9REMsgQ=photo
>
>I'm trying to decide if that is better as surface=compacted or
>surface=fine_gravel although fine_gravel seems to be a slightly
>different process from what I see on the wiki.
>
>Maybe this should be directed at the tagging list but I thought I
>would get thoughts from the US community since we seem to be the ones
>using the tag incorrectly (according to the wiki)
>
>[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface
>
>Toby
>
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[Talk-us] Gravel roads and surface tags in the US

[Toby Murray]

I recently bought a gravel bicycle to ride on the many gravel roads in
Kansas. Like this one:
https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=nYO4JI46L0SWzNAQlLT4kA=photo

First question: What would you call this road? Obviously I am calling
it a "gravel road" but a couple of people have said they would call it
a "dirt road" so I'm curious if there are any other common terms to
describe this type of road in different regions of the US.

Second question: How would you tag this road? There is a
surface=gravel tag that is in pretty common usage in Kansas and
neighboring states. However looking at the wiki page for the surface
tag[1], this is not wiki-correct. According to that page
surface=gravel is to be used for large rocks (4-8cm) that are laid
down loosely like those typically used as ballast on railroad beds. I
believe The Mapillary picture I linked to would be considered
surface=compacted according to the wiki because the rocks are much
smaller and the surface is stabilized with a binding agent. There is a
big difference between the two when it comes to bicycle riding.
Railroad ballast is bone jarring and flat tire inducing whereas gravel
roads are pretty manageable on the right kind of bike.

But If you call something a "gravel road" and there is a "gravel"
option in the editor preset for the surface tag, people are going to
choose the gravel option and not look for "compacted" since that is
not a common term here. I assume it is a more common term in the UK
and that is why it is used in OSM.

And lastly there are trails that are surfaced with a similar material
but crushed to a smaller size like here:
https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=iQNqP-dfQ-Rm6AD9REMsgQ=photo

I'm trying to decide if that is better as surface=compacted or
surface=fine_gravel although fine_gravel seems to be a slightly
different process from what I see on the wiki.

Maybe this should be directed at the tagging list but I thought I
would get thoughts from the US community since we seem to be the ones
using the tag incorrectly (according to the wiki)

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface

Toby

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