Re: [Talk-us] Hi!
Welcome Hans, When I'm unsure how to map something, I follow a process something like this, to find out how other mappers have approached it. Wikipedia might be a good place to find a common name for a particular feature like chicane. If you don't know that it's called a chicane, of that it is for traffic calming, things are a bit harder. From there, I'd look for existing instances of chicane in the database. Taginfo is great for this. Visit http://taginfo.osm.org and enter chicane in the search box. Then select the values tab. Or use this link. http://taginfo.osm.org/search?q=chicane#values from there, we can see that more than 5000 traffic_calming=chicane objects exist in the current database, and variants are much less frequent. Selecting chicane from the traffic_calming line in the table, then the wiki ta, exposes the link to the wiki page for this element http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Atraffic_calming%3Dchicane And that rather confirms that you have found what you are looking for. And all in the context of what other mappers are already using, so we can avoid duplicating effort by 'creating' a new tagging standard. Best regards, Richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] HI: Hawaii GIS Data
On 5 Dec 2009, at 00:47, Scott Atwood wrote: On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk wrote: Why oh why oh why do some people insist on wasting time trying to import loads of data? Please take a read of http://www.gravitystorm.co.uk/shine/archives/2009/11/10/the-pottery-club/ Please go out and map what's out on the ground, as usually imported data is of a rather low standard or the import isn't done right, and it's really, really hard to do an import correctly. On 5 Dec 2009, at 00:00, Scott Atwood wrote: The Hawaii state government has a sizable repository of GIS data that could be useful to import into OSM: http://hawaii.gov/dbedt/gis/. I have contacted a manager in the GIS department by telephone and verified that this GIS data is in the public domain, and therefore available for import into OSM. Hawaii has pretty good road coverage from a import of 2007 TIGER data on O'ahu, and an ongoing import of 2009 TIGER data for the remaining islands, so the roads data provided by the GIS department probably doesn't need to be considered.But there is a lot of other data available that isn't currently in OSM, such as: * Streams, waterfalls, dams, and canals (Does the National Hydrography Dataset cover Hawaii?) * Coral reefs * Offshore islets * Mile markers Not so sure these belong in OSM. I would argue that streams, waterfalls, dams, and canals are extremely relevant things to map.Many of these features are in areas of heavy vegetation and extremely rugged terrain which makes surveying them by hand or via satellite imagery very challenging. Coral reefs are extremely import to coastal navigation, recreation, and tourism in Hawaii, and once again, very difficult to accurately map. Offshore islets can probably be mapped via satellite imagery. Mapping them by direct survey is difficult or impossible, since many of them are protected seabird sanctuaries and/or hazardous to get to. Road navigation in Hawaii tends to reference mile markers far more often than in any other location I've been to. Travel guides often give directions using mile markers as landmarks, and tourist maps often include mile markers. Erm, I was only referring to the mile markers. Those other items would probably be useful for openseamap. * Trails * Parks * Schools Um haven't these already been imported? Not just current ones, but historic ones too, and schools that opened 4 years ago aren't in there? Some trails, have been import, some have been manually survey. Many are missing entirely. National Park boundaries have been imported, but most other parks seem to be missing. I don't know about schools on O'ahu, but there doesn't seem to have been any schools imported on the neighbor islands. Again, I wasn't clear enough, and was primarily referring to the schools. * Hotels * Assorted administrative boundaries You'll probably find that most of these are in there already. Hotels, no. Some administrative boundaries have been imported. Others have not. Grr, seems like a bit of a failure on my part with that mail and not being clear enough that I was only referring to the last item in each section. Do some publicity, run some mapping parties. The reason OSM has worked in Germany is due to plenty of publicity. Mapping parties are great and will certainly help improve the quality of the more compact urbanized land areas of Hawaii. But much of the state is undeveloped and difficult to access, so importing data from external sources should be considered as part of the strategy of filling out the map. I'd recommend doing the import on an item by item basis based on other surrounding OSM data rather than pull all the data in automatically, thus it would be more like a copying or tracing exercise. Shaun -Scott -- Scott Atwood The hill isn't in the way, it is the way. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] HI: Hawaii GIS Data
On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 7:47 PM, Scott Atwood scott.roy.atw...@gmail.com wrote: Offshore islets can probably be mapped via satellite imagery. It's common practice for providers of aerial/satellite imagery such as Yahoo to mask out actual coverage of oceans and large lakes with a generic ocean texture that is meant to look better than actual photographic data. So if it's small and not very close to the mainland, don't count on it showing up in the Yahoo imagery. -- David Smith a.k.a. Vid the Kid a.k.a. Bír'd'in Does this font make me look fat? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] HI: Hawaii GIS Data
Shaun it's simply not that clear cut, there are plenty of people in the US who would never have gotten involved without TIGER. I met one yesterday and it was the first thing he said. On Dec 4, 2009, at 5:12 PM, Shaun McDonald wrote: Why oh why oh why do some people insist on wasting time trying to import loads of data? Please take a read of http://www.gravitystorm.co.uk/shine/archives/2009/11/10/the-pottery-club/ Please go out and map what's out on the ground, as usually imported data is of a rather low standard or the import isn't done right, and it's really, really hard to do an import correctly. On 5 Dec 2009, at 00:00, Scott Atwood wrote: The Hawaii state government has a sizable repository of GIS data that could be useful to import into OSM: http://hawaii.gov/dbedt/gis/. I have contacted a manager in the GIS department by telephone and verified that this GIS data is in the public domain, and therefore available for import into OSM. Hawaii has pretty good road coverage from a import of 2007 TIGER data on O'ahu, and an ongoing import of 2009 TIGER data for the remaining islands, so the roads data provided by the GIS department probably doesn't need to be considered.But there is a lot of other data available that isn't currently in OSM, such as: * Streams, waterfalls, dams, and canals (Does the National Hydrography Dataset cover Hawaii?) * Coral reefs * Offshore islets * Mile markers Not so sure these belong in OSM. * Trails * Parks * Schools Um haven't these already been imported? Not just current ones, but historic ones too, and schools that opened 4 years ago aren't in there? * Hotels * Assorted administrative boundaries You'll probably find that most of these are in there already. * Land use categorization. * etc. There has been relatively little mapping activity in Hawaii outside of O'ahu, so these data sets are unlikely to conflict with much existing work on the neighbor islands. More careful consideration would have to be given for data imports for O'ahu. Do some publicity, run some mapping parties. The reason OSM has worked in Germany is due to plenty of publicity. Shaun I have not made any investigation into the accuracy of any of this data yet, and honestly, I'm not sure what sort of tools or techniques would be useful for evaluating the accuracy. -Scott -- Scott Atwood The hill isn't in the way, it is the way. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Yours c. Steve ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] HI: Hawaii GIS Data
Perhaps I'm not a typical mapper, but I don't find the existence of bulk imported local data to have been particular inhibiting in my activity level. I don't believe there is any one thing as a typical mapper. But I certainly agree with you myself, and so do many others, as witnessed by many past postings to the talk-us list. - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] HI: Hawaii GIS Data
The Hawaii state government has a sizable repository of GIS data that could be useful to import into OSM: http://hawaii.gov/dbedt/gis/. I have contacted a manager in the GIS department by telephone and verified that this GIS data is in the public domain, and therefore available for import into OSM. Hawaii has pretty good road coverage from a import of 2007 TIGER data on O'ahu, and an ongoing import of 2009 TIGER data for the remaining islands, so the roads data provided by the GIS department probably doesn't need to be considered.But there is a lot of other data available that isn't currently in OSM, such as: * Streams, waterfalls, dams, and canals (Does the National Hydrography Dataset cover Hawaii?) * Coral reefs * Offshore islets * Mile markers * Trails * Parks * Schools * Hotels * Assorted administrative boundaries * Land use categorization. * etc. There has been relatively little mapping activity in Hawaii outside of O'ahu, so these data sets are unlikely to conflict with much existing work on the neighbor islands. More careful consideration would have to be given for data imports for O'ahu. I have not made any investigation into the accuracy of any of this data yet, and honestly, I'm not sure what sort of tools or techniques would be useful for evaluating the accuracy. -Scott -- Scott Atwood The hill isn't in the way, it is the way. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] HI: Hawaii GIS Data
On Sat, 2009-12-05 at 00:12 +, Shaun McDonald wrote: Why oh why oh why do some people insist on wasting time trying to import loads of data? Mapping is fun, but I personally think it is more fun when you're enhancing someone else's work rather than starting from a blank slate. Whatever floats your boat, I guess. Anyway, Scott, I'd encourage you to find some specific goals that you'd like to achieve with the import. It may not be worth importing things just because they are available. Is there something specific missing from or lacking in OSM that the import could help with? -- Dave ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] HI: Hawaii GIS Data
On Fri, 2009-12-04 at 16:22 -0800, Dave Hansen wrote: Anyway, Scott, I'd encourage you to find some specific goals that you'd like to achieve with the import. It may not be worth importing things just because they are available. Is there something specific missing from or lacking in OSM that the import could help with? The thing that caught my eye, personally, was the trails. But, I'm a hiker, so that's what I care about by default. -- Dave ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] HI: Hawaii GIS Data
On Sat, 2009-12-05 at 00:12 +, Shaun McDonald wrote: Please take a read of http://www.gravitystorm.co.uk/shine/archives/2009/11/10/the-pottery-club/ Don't forget that OSM was turning away US mappers for a long time telling them to come back once TIGER was imported. It isn't that way any more, thank goodness. -- Dave ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] HI: Hawaii GIS Data
On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.ukwrote: Why oh why oh why do some people insist on wasting time trying to import loads of data? Please take a read of http://www.gravitystorm.co.uk/shine/archives/2009/11/10/the-pottery-club/ Please go out and map what's out on the ground, as usually imported data is of a rather low standard or the import isn't done right, and it's really, really hard to do an import correctly. On 5 Dec 2009, at 00:00, Scott Atwood wrote: The Hawaii state government has a sizable repository of GIS data that could be useful to import into OSM: http://hawaii.gov/dbedt/gis/. I have contacted a manager in the GIS department by telephone and verified that this GIS data is in the public domain, and therefore available for import into OSM. Hawaii has pretty good road coverage from a import of 2007 TIGER data on O'ahu, and an ongoing import of 2009 TIGER data for the remaining islands, so the roads data provided by the GIS department probably doesn't need to be considered.But there is a lot of other data available that isn't currently in OSM, such as: * Streams, waterfalls, dams, and canals (Does the National Hydrography Dataset cover Hawaii?) * Coral reefs * Offshore islets * Mile markers Not so sure these belong in OSM. I would argue that streams, waterfalls, dams, and canals are extremely relevant things to map.Many of these features are in areas of heavy vegetation and extremely rugged terrain which makes surveying them by hand or via satellite imagery very challenging. Coral reefs are extremely import to coastal navigation, recreation, and tourism in Hawaii, and once again, very difficult to accurately map. Offshore islets can probably be mapped via satellite imagery. Mapping them by direct survey is difficult or impossible, since many of them are protected seabird sanctuaries and/or hazardous to get to. Road navigation in Hawaii tends to reference mile markers far more often than in any other location I've been to. Travel guides often give directions using mile markers as landmarks, and tourist maps often include mile markers. * Trails * Parks * Schools Um haven't these already been imported? Not just current ones, but historic ones too, and schools that opened 4 years ago aren't in there? Some trails, have been import, some have been manually survey. Many are missing entirely. National Park boundaries have been imported, but most other parks seem to be missing. I don't know about schools on O'ahu, but there doesn't seem to have been any schools imported on the neighbor islands. * Hotels * Assorted administrative boundaries You'll probably find that most of these are in there already. Hotels, no. Some administrative boundaries have been imported. Others have not. Do some publicity, run some mapping parties. The reason OSM has worked in Germany is due to plenty of publicity. Mapping parties are great and will certainly help improve the quality of the more compact urbanized land areas of Hawaii. But much of the state is undeveloped and difficult to access, so importing data from external sources should be considered as part of the strategy of filling out the map. -Scott -- Scott Atwood The hill isn't in the way, it is the way. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] HI: Hawaii GIS Data
Why oh why oh why do some people insist on wasting time trying to import loads of data? I like to view OSM data as capable of creating some usable map types on its own, rather than just a possible supplemental feed to Google maps in the future. As such, landmarks are key to a standalone map: A map without streams and rivers is not real to me. That's where the NHD import comes in. After the import, I frequently update the actual hydrography features for changes caused by new construction. Not a waste of time to me, and the map is useless without those hydro landmarks. I certainly wouldn't be slogging up thousands of streams and rivers - most of which are on private property - trying to map any of them myself. Similarly, larger park boundaries could not be reasonably mapped without special arrangements from park management to stray off marked trails and file your survey plan. Most parks would not allow casual access off their marked trails for good reasons.So parks are another useful landmark import. Trails - if accurate, why not use them? The end result is a good start so a later mapper can spend time adding trail landmarks and details rather than the trail itself. Aside from that, I'll agree that importing just because some data is available is not good, and firsthand survey data is much more valuable. After all, if someone wants to make their own voting district map (which can change every year), they just combine the public voting district data with the OSM features they need at that time. - Mike ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] HI: Hawaii GIS Data
On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Dave Hansen d...@sr71.net wrote: On Sat, 2009-12-05 at 00:12 +, Shaun McDonald wrote: Why oh why oh why do some people insist on wasting time trying to import loads of data? Mapping is fun, but I personally think it is more fun when you're enhancing someone else's work rather than starting from a blank slate. Whatever floats your boat, I guess. Personally, I find a blank slate a lot more intimidating and overwhelming that improving some data. Most of my mapping experience is in the south San Francisco Bay Area. By the time I started mapping, the area was pretty thoroughly mapped, from TIGER imports and a fairly active local mapping community. I relish the opportunity to improve the quality of the local map. Sometimes, that means I get to add a whole neighborhood subdivision that wasn't included in the TIGER import. Sometimes that means I get to add details that aren't part of TIGER and that are often over looked, like bike lanes, parking lots, traffic calming devices, and railroad crossings. Sometimes, I even get to clean up TIGER data, for example by realigning it to GPS traces or satellite images. Perhaps I'm not a typical mapper, but I don't find the existence of bulk imported local data to have been particular inhibiting in my activity level. Anyway, Scott, I'd encourage you to find some specific goals that you'd like to achieve with the import. It may not be worth importing things just because they are available. Is there something specific missing from or lacking in OSM that the import could help with? I would be happy to just start small, with something like the water data: streams, waterfalls, canals, and dams, since these are import basic landmarks, and in the context of Hawaii, very difficult to map any other way. -Scott -- Scott Atwood The hill isn't in the way, it is the way. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] HI: Hawaii GIS Data
On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 7:12 PM, Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.ukwrote: Why oh why oh why do some people insist on wasting time trying to import loads of data? Why do some people insist on wasting time surveying data that someone else has already surveyed? Probably much the same reasons. It can be fun :). usually imported data is of a rather low standard or the import isn't done right, and it's really, really hard to do an import correctly. A valid warning, however. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
