[Tango-L] Volcada (instructional video)
Videos uploaded... Give us a click here: http://www.tangomagdalena.com/Newsletters/vol12_august08.html Jean-Pierre Sighe - TANGO MAGDALENA, LLC 580 Grand Ave, Suite # 305 Oakland, CA 94610 Ph.: 510- 836 0812 Web site : http://www.tangomagdalena.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Volcada (instructional video)
Jean-Pierre, Thanks for sharing your video, however, it looks to me as if your partner allows her back to collapse during the carpa instead of maintaining a strong core. I think your video needs more information on that aspect and on what you mean by support so that the women are protected. The other point of confusion for women after they have learned a volcada is distinguishing when she's asked to lean or when she's invited to take a forward step. It's common for women to mistake a simple step forward as a volcada. That's something you might want to address as well. Trini de Pittsburgh --- On Fri, 9/5/08, Jean-Pierre Sighe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Jean-Pierre Sighe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Tango-L] Volcada (instructional video) To: Tango-L@mit.edu Date: Friday, September 5, 2008, 7:00 AM Videos uploaded... Give us a click here: http://www.tangomagdalena.com/Newsletters/vol12_august08.html Jean-Pierre Sighe - TANGO MAGDALENA, LLC 580 Grand Ave, Suite # 305 Oakland, CA 94610 Ph.: 510- 836 0812 Web site : http://www.tangomagdalena.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Labor Day Festival: a complaint
I also dislike this 30 seconds of chit-chat on the dance floor. Just what is its purpose? Someone told me it was so that the dancers could hear the music before starting to dance but, IMO, that just doesn't ring true.. Firstly, they're chatting, not listening and, secondly, the 5 seconds to make the embrace is surely enough to 'hear' the music. Of course, I might be missing something and I'd appreciate any enlightenment on the reason for this tradition in Buenos Aires. I don't think it happens in other partner dances. Jack - Original Message From: Dubravko Kakarigi [EMAIL PROTECTED] For example, I very much dislike the 20-30 second standing around on the floor and talking as the music starts as it is common in many milongas in Buenos Aires. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Talking on the floor (was Labor Day Festival: a complaint)
Jack, I typically chat with old friends in-between the songs, because we usually only meet at Festivals, and neither of us is going to be sitting down to chat. So, in order to catch up and to be interested in each others lives and developments, that occurs in-between the songs. Typically this chat gets put on hold and dancing begins at that 2nd measure mark, much like in BsAs. What I've read about the chit chat in BsAs and it's origins, was that was the only chance for a young suitor to talk to the girl with whom he was dancing with, because it would not have been proper to sit next to her after the dancing; she was there with a chaperone. Remember the strong Catholic roots of South America and how difficult it is/was for a young man to get to know a young, proper, woman, and to impress her. JK -- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 22:43:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Jack Dylan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Labor Day Festival: a complaint To: tango-l@mit.edu Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I also dislike this 30 seconds of chit-chat?on the dance floor. Just what is its purpose? Someone told me it was so that the dancers could hear the music before starting to dance but, IMO,?that just doesn't ring true.. Firstly, they're chatting, not listening and, secondly,?the 5 seconds to make the embrace is surely enough to 'hear' the music. Of course, I might be missing something and I'd appreciate any enlightenment on the reason for this tradition in Buenos Aires. I don't think it happens in other partner dances. Jack ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] 30 seconds of chit-chat (was Labor Day Festival: a complaint)
Jack wrote: I also dislike this 30 seconds of chit-chat on the dance floor. Just what is its purpose? - I heard somewhere that in the early days of tango, the time before the music started was the only time that a young man could talk to a young woman out of earshot of her chaperons. Obviously this may be pure myth... J TangoMoments.com _ Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093185mrt/direct/01/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] 30 seconds of chit-chat
On Thu, Sep 4, 2008 at 12:43 AM, Jack Dylan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also dislike this 30 seconds of chit-chat on the dance floor. Just what is its purpose? Someone told me it was so that the dancers could hear the music before starting to dance but, IMO, that just doesn't ring true.. Firstly, they're chatting, not listening and, secondly, the 5 seconds to make the embrace is surely enough to 'hear' the music. Of course, I might be missing something and I'd appreciate any enlightenment on the reason for this tradition in Buenos Aires. I don't think it happens in other partner dances. Jack - Original Message From: Dubravko Kakarigi [EMAIL PROTECTED] For example, I very much dislike the 20-30 second standing around on the floor and talking as the music starts as it is common in many milongas in Buenos Aires. Many of the couples dancing don't know their partner. Men and women sit in separate sections and invite to dance with a cabeceo. This brief conversation allows them to get to know each other a little because walking up to a table to start a conversation with a stranger would be going against the codes of behavior in a milonga. This is also a time to arrange outside the milonga meetings. It also serves a purpose of allowing additional couples to enter the dance floor after the start of the tanda. It is also true that this 'chit-chat' does not generally occur during 'tandas' of the non-tango music played in the milongas of Buenos Aires (jazz, Rock 'n Roll, cumbia, salsa, chacarera et al.) Ron ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Talking on the floor (was Labor Day Festival: a complaint)
I was told by a porteno that the men use that time to listen to the music and decide how they will dance it given the woman in their arms. Small talk, getting to know one another, sharing info about other milongas or discussing the music are ways one can spend that time. Whatever it is, I really like it. It makes me more comfortable and connected to my partner. Perhaps in your own community you already know the folks very well ( or too well?). Nancy ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] 30 seconds of chit-chat (was Labor Day Festival: a complaint)
On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 9:59 AM, Jay Rabe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jack wrote: I also dislike this 30 seconds of chit-chat on the dance floor. Just what is its purpose? - I heard somewhere that in the early days of tango, the time before the music started was the only time that a young man could talk to a young woman out of earshot of her chaperons. Obviously this may be pure myth... Perhaps, but even today in an old-school milonga, single men and women will be seated separately. So a man and a woman have no opportunity to converse at the table, it is a no-no (rightly so) to talk while dancing, which leaves only the time between songs out on the dance floor to chat. Huck ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] 30 seconds of chit-chat an Argentine custom
It was said: What I've read about the chit chat in BsAs and it's origins, was that was the only chance for a young suitor to talk to the girl with whom he was dancing with, because it would not have been proper to sit next to her after the dancing; she was there with a chaperone. Remember the strong Catholic roots of South America and how difficult it is/was for a young man to get to knowa young, proper, woman, and to impress her. It is not proper for a man to sit by the woman at the milonga but not due to our Catholic upbringing. It is the custom that women that wish to dance with different partners sit alone or in the company of other women. People in Argentina are extremely respectful of any starting or on going relationship between a man and a woman. So if a woman allows a certain gentleman to sit by her, or if she walks from the street in the company of a man, or if she in any form or manner shows special interest in a particular man, the other men will not ask her to dance. If a woman comes alone to the milonga but it is known that she is in a relationship with a man (who is not present at the moment), the other men will not ask her to dance. (except perhaps by close friends of both of them). So if a lady wishes to dance with different partners she has to be perceived as being unattached. If a man is interested in a particular lady,he will have to invite her for a cup of coffee at a certain bar, where they will meet after the milonga. (Here is the importance of the little chit-chat between tangos). They both, the lady and the gentleman will leave the milonga separately and keep this relationship secret for a while, till they decide that they wish to dance only with each other. The woman declines any invitation to dance out of respect for her companion. Recently I arrived to a milonga and saw a beautiful lady sitting across the room, I stared, she stared back and nodded, but remained sitting. I approached her table - she said - I would love to dance with you but at the moment I have company (he had gone to the restroom) - perhaps on another occasion - she added with a smile. I still remember the first time I went to dance in the USA. I met a very attractive girl; we danced, we laughed, we talked, we sat together. Everything was perfect till a male friend of hers came to the table and asked her to dance - she said to me - I will be right back - and went to dance with him. I felt deeply disappointed and left that place (country dancing) as fast as I could. As to chaperones... this is another story... Best regards, Sergio _ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together—at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] 30 seconds of chit-chat
This is all very interesting. And I am sure the 30 sec chat serves various intended purposes. However, all I need/want to know about my dance partner I learn through dancing with her, not through talking with her. Actually having any spoken conversation is very distracting for me. But, hey, my purpose for dancing is not to meet people but to dance and enjoy music ... so I go ahead and dance. Does anyone know if it is considered rude to dance (in place) during those 30 chat seconds? I never had anyone tell me so, but perhaps people might just be too polite to complain. === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] 30 seconds of chit-chat an Argentine custom
When women are very young, they want men to talk to them. It is the only way they know how to connect. This is female. Girls are not only born that way, but also socialized. When women mature, some loose their attraction to talk because they have heard a lot and not much is new. They also have other ways of recognizing the meaning of various interactions and their importance. It is very interesting to see and hear adolescent boys talk about the girls they like - they are not eager to talk to them. Instead, they are happy to see them, even from a distance. They know that they need to talk to her, if they have any intentions of asking her out, but seeing the girl seems much more important. I am always amazed at how the boy-girl interaction repeats itself in a man-woman interaction in tango. Watching the people in the milongas internationally for years, I have observed that the moment the dance stops, the women's mouths begin to move. Some never stop. They sit down and don't stop talking. It is easy to chat when the dance experience is simply pleasant and inconsequential. The words don't happen when it is something else. But the chit-chat also can help people feel safe - from each other, from themselves. There is an old saying - Men love with their eyes, and women love with their ears. In my experience living in Argentina, the men of that culture know this little piece of wisdom. Best, Nina Sergio Vandekier wrote: It was said: What I've read about the chit chat in BsAs and it's origins, was that was the only chance for a young suitor to talk to the girl with whom he was dancing with, because it would not have been proper to sit next to her after the dancing; she was there with a chaperone. Remember the strong Catholic roots of South America and how difficult it is/was for a young man to get to knowa young, proper, woman, and to impress her. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l http://www.earthnet.net Boulder's Premier Datacenter Network, email, and web servers powered by renewable wind energy. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] 30 second chit-chat an Argentine custom
Most people go to the milonga to dance, to immerse themselves in the world of the milonga. Every code has a reason to exist. The 30 seconds between tangos are used as described by Ilene and Nancy to get the feeling of the music.Most people arrive to the milonga, greet their friends, with a smile or a kiss in the cheek and sit at the table. They order some wine or something else to drink, and listen to the music for a while till they are relaxed and feel the need to dance. Once in la pista (the dancing floor) they face their partner and wait for a moment to get the feeling of the music. You cannot jump and start dancing with the first beats of a tango like a robot, you need a moment to feel the music to be able to make an interpretation , in the meantime you wait for the other dancers to start moving and only then you bend your knees and start dancing with passion. Otherwise you would be dancing any tango the same way, automatically...it may be done but the feeling is different. It is not bad manners to dance in place, it is different, a good follower may think she did not have time to immerse herself in the music. Regards, Sergio _ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Labor Day Festival: a complaint
This same delay in the start of dancing occurs in the danzon. The introduction, or about the first 16 measures, are not danced. When the introduction is then repeated during the music, the dancers stop again. Danzon originated in Cuba from a French contradance by way of Haiti. If you believe that the danzon and tango have similar roots (both are based on the habanera), this delayed start would indicate some commonality. The danzon is still danced in Cuba and Mexico, particularly Veracruz and Mexico City. Original Message: - From: Jack Dylan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 22:43:13 -0700 (PDT) To: tango-l@mit.edu Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Labor Day Festival: a complaint I also dislike this 30 seconds of chit-chat on the dance floor. Just what is its purpose? Someone told me it was so that the dancers could hear the music before starting to dance but, IMO, that just doesn't ring true.. Firstly, they're chatting, not listening and, secondly, the 5 seconds to make the embrace is surely enough to 'hear' the music. Of course, I might be missing something and I'd appreciate any enlightenment on the reason for this tradition in Buenos Aires. I don't think it happens in other partner dances. Jack - Original Message From: Dubravko Kakarigi [EMAIL PROTECTED] For example, I very much dislike the 20-30 second standing around on the floor and talking as the music starts as it is common in many milongas in Buenos Aires. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l myhosting.com - Premium Microsoft® Windows® and Linux web and application hosting - http://link.myhosting.com/myhosting ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] 30 seconds of chit chat, was labor day complaint
Jack Dylan asked about the reason for the 30 seconds that seems idle chit chat after the music starts. Here's is one possible explanation that comes to my mind, I am sure there are others. It goes along with the BA tradition of clearing the floor during the cortina, which has other obvious benefits of partner change that seem to be unappreciated at most milongas here. Many dancers have preferred partners for certain orchestras, and type of music, whether milonga, vals, or tango. After the cortina, it takes a bit of time to hear what is coming on, send the cabaceo to the preferred partner, and get on the floor with her. My guess is the idle chit chat time is longer at the start of a new tanda, and shorter between the pieces during the tanda. Also, even within the same tanda, it just seems more civilized to allow everyone to take a breath and start again more or less together in the ronda, rather than rushing in to get every second of dance, which is not too elegant, and probably futile, if everyone ahead of you is proceeding to re-enter the embrace in a more relaxed manner. InBA, there is more of a feeling that the entire room is moving and breathing as one, more respect for the line of dance, and the couples are moving in the ronda more or less at the same speed. Here, you can have bumper car feeling, or try to move in a vals and come across landmines of people who use the vals to stay in one spot and hold up the line of dance. Do you ever get the feeling the couple ahead of you on the dance floor are listening to something else, maybe on an Ipod? Well, when everone starts more or less at the same time, it facilitates a natural tendency to move together, like a multi-celled self calibrating organism. I have a question for you-- do you release the embrace between each song, or stay latched on to your partner waiting for the music to restart? I think it feels really nice to ( softly ) release the embrace, and then gradually re-enter it again. But that's just me. Curious to see what others think. Martin Nussbaum NYC ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] 30 second chit-chat an Argentine custom
If there were any ladies on this list who might have danced with me, they could testify that I do not just start like a robot. There are way too many assumptions here about how and why I dance (I won't argue about that, not important what you may think of me personally) and why I do not care for the prolonged chatting (how long does it take for you to recognize a song, after all? 30 seconds? I don't think so. Robot? I don't think so). I must add, though, that I just can not see how I can focus on feeling the music while chatting. I must be deficient in that, multitasking, department. Oh well, different strokes for different folks. - Original Message From: Sergio Vandekier [EMAIL PROTECTED] ... It is not bad manners to dance in place, it is different, a good follower may think she did not have time to immerse herself in the music. However, one good reason for the pause for (at least) the first song in a tanda was given above -- consideration for the partner's way for getting into the music. Thank you. That was a good and welcome insight (when applicable). Why not? If that is what it takes for the lady to feel comfortable, it is worth it. Especially if it is part of the alure of dancing in the first place. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Volcada (instructional video)
Jean-Pierre Sighé writes in the following link --- The Cruzada MUST be lead and not just assumed. http://www.tangomagdalena.com/Newsletters/vol12_august08.html Actually ALL parts of a volcada combination must be lead. The volcada is just the extreme lean. Lean + amague/front boleo + cruzada is a popular combination, but it's only one of many that start with the lean. The dibujo (that famous arc on the floor) during the amague/front boleo is an adorno. Like all women's adornos it is the woman's option to do it or not. If the man is hurrying the combination she will likely leave it off. The video accompanying Sighé's text is one of the best YouTube videos of several dozen I've seen which shows lots of volcada combinations, not only because of its video quality. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4n81J4zkyc The whole dance is a good example of how to dance with a lady new to a man. The very first volcada, near the beginning, is just a lean. She is tipped off balance, with weight forward of her toes, making it a true volcada. (The word comes from volcar - to upset, overturn, tip over or knock over.) And it is only a slight lean. This way the leader can tell if his partner can and will do a lean, rather than panicking and stepping forward with her free foot to regain her balance. Later on he does a more extreme lean but adds a zarandeo (shake, a twisting around the vertical axis). She adorns this by lifting her free foot so that she does almost a boleo to the left and the right. Another good example of a couple testing their mutual body language. There are many other volcada combinations, including a carousel, in the rest of the video. Good selection, Jean-Pierre Larry de Los Angeles Live the good life! Click now for great retirement planning assistance! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/Ioyw6iieke7kEnwQOFwALxT1s6avyrvAdM0MB9xFBgw5j67zoCxDvM/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] 30 seconds of chit chat, was labor day complaint
Here in Buenos Aires it's part of the codigos that because the tango is so intimate, between the music during the chit-chat time, there is no touching of the other person. Kind of a time to return to normal, before taking up the intimate embrace again. It's actually considered bad manners for a man to hang-on to his partner during the interval, such as keeping his arm around her or holding her hand. This is the cool-down period, and it underlines that the close embrace is the tango dance position, not something else. cherie http://tangocherie.blogspot.com/ ** Pt...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty000514) ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Robot dancing
Dear Sergio (and other members of this group): Thank you for your kind words -- no offense was taken, indeed. I fully support everything you said. Regardless of how proficient one is with anything, luckily, there is always more to learn. I really came to believe that the more you know, the more you know you don't know is not just an empty saying. Dear Nancy, I'd love to see you at a milonga. I cherish those few electrifying moments of slow connection, the eye contact, the smile as we approach each other to dance; the slow, give-and-take completion of the embrace; feeling my partner breathe. I am very grateful to any woman who dances with me, it is quite a gift. So, yes, when you dance with me, you are definitely very special, those moments with you as we dance never ever to be repeated. ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
