Damaged folders in Voyager
Listmembers: I'm experiencing a lot of problems with damaged folders in my Voyager installation. This even happened to the Inbox of my main account and it's very annoying because I lose mail in the process. At some point, Voyager started to report that it couldn't read the message database (messages.ebb) in some directory when viewing a folder offering to repair. When you say 'Yes', it launches the repair highlighting, but not selecting the folder in question. If I then select the hightlighted folder and run the repair, the log says that it recovered an x number of messages and saved 0 to parts, x is the number of messages that are supposed to be in the folder. After closing the repair dialog, however, there are no messages left in view. This has happened to a lot of folders now. My total message count in my own account is now down from some 72.000 to 40.000 which means that I've now lost over 30.000 messages including my entire tbbeta archive. I have attempted to reload the missing messages from a recent back-up, but that seems to have aggravated the situation. One thing I also noted is that the foldername listed in the error saying it couldn't read the messages.ebb is not the same as the foldername listed when I look at the folder's properties. So I have these questions: 1) What can I do to prevent this from happening again? 2) What is the best procedure to restore Voyager from a backup? -- Greetings, Maurice Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 The Bat! v4.0.18.4; MyMacros 1.11a Current beta is 4.0.20.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Annoying behavior (Unread Tab)
Hello Thomas, Thursday, April 17, 2008, 4:51:34 PM, you wrote: TF However, if you have read all messages in a folder, it still jumps to TF the bottom instead of staying where it belongs. When I added a note saying the problem was solved, I did not have many folders with unread messages in them for some time. However, when you do have a lot of such folders, it is still a rather annoying behaviour... -- Best Wishes, Mark using The Bat! Version 4.0.20.2 with MyMacros 1.11a zOmbie's Macros Version 0.7 Windows 2000 Professional/5.0 build 2195 Service Pack 4 (0 days 2:19:49) on Uno AMD Duron Current beta is 4.0.20.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Feature Request
am Freitag, 18. April 2008 um 02:43 schrieb Munango-Keewati: Write simple VBS script with MessageBox (or simillar). And run external command ... Does anyone know how to incorporate a passed argument (%1) into a vbs script? I spent about an hour on Google looking, but couldn't find a solution. I spent 5 minutes and searched for visual basic command line parameters http://www.devx.com/getHelpOn/10MinuteSolution/20366 should explain how to get them. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Jens Franik mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Picture of me? X-Rogue http://www.de2all.de/Kr_bat.jpg The Bat! 4.0.20.2 Windows 2000 5.0 build 2195 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 4.0.20.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Error sending HTML attachment to external application
am Mittwoch, 16. April 2008 um 11:15 schrieb Roger Phillips: On clicking on an HTML attachment, and then clicking to get the external application (Opera) to open it, I got the AV in the attached .gif file. Has anyone else had this problem? I use Flock as external Browser (based on Mozilla Engine) and i have no Problem to view the HTML with double-click on it - exept the warning Message, if i really want to open it than rather saving. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Jens Franik mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Picture of me? X-Rogue http://www.de2all.de/Kr_bat.jpg The Bat! 4.0.20.2 Windows 2000 5.0 build 2195 Service Pack 4 Current beta is 4.0.20.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
DP fiasco
Hello Don, I thought I would write this direct to you as it represents what I, if I were in your position might do regarding the implementation of DP. First, any 'full' DP approach should be totally disregarded. I would seriously consider a facility which gives an optional display of tree (optional), list, 2nd tree (optional), 2nd list and that is it! This would enable those who are used to DP 'seeing' file transactions and allow visual file comparison. I suggested the DP wishers just concentrate on user needs but they seem to not understand the word 'need' which is not uncommon in application design scenarios. Many times in the past when a product was eventually finished I have said to clients if only you told me what you really wanted it would have been dead easy and available early - response - we did not know what we wanted until we saw it. Typical! Once the dust has settled if you were to offer a very simple DP solution then I suggest it will satisfy 70% of XY 'moaners' but you will be cast into oblivion by the remaining 30% - tough! It is there loss to miss out on the XY experience (in fact, they may just remain as sleeping users because to abandon XY is just silly when it can offer things others cannot even come close too) Finally, another consideration which I think is of more concern. You, as a one man band, have only so much time to develop XY and whilst you can exploit the innovative stuff the competition are relegated to 'following' your example. To divert now into a major DP development buys you nothing but it does give the competition time to copy you and claim superiority. Please don't waste time replying, I wanted to get this off my chest and writing it in the forum is a waste of time because the DP advocates have tunnel vision and as I see are not prepared to think compromise. Having made a sensible offer, I think if a compromise solution can now be made which takes a short time to implement then go for it otherwise - bin it now. Best regards, Graham -- Graham Howe mail mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using TheBat 4.0.20.2 on Windows 5 SP2 Current beta is 4.0.20.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Damaged folders in Voyager
Reply to message sent 04/18/2008, @ 08:33:06 (1:33 AM Locally) ~~~ Hello Maurice, I'm experiencing a lot of problems with damaged folders in my Voyager installation. 1) What can I do to prevent this from happening again? 2) What is the best procedure to restore Voyager from a backup? I'm afraid I can't really help with the questions but I can state I have lived through this also. It seems once a folder gets corrupted somehow it's lights out and there's no fixing it. I had to finally just delete the folders that were giving me problems and start over with them. I spent days fooling with them and in the end I lost messages. Backups didn't help as every time I restored a backup I just got the corrupted folders back. I never mentioned it here as I have no idea what causes them to go bad. If it was repeatable I'd have hoisted a flag, but since it just happens out of the blue it's hard to report a specific problem. Although, it is at times like this that I wish encryption with Voyager was optional. -- ò.ó Nick Danger [MUA: TB! Voyager 4.0.18.4] [OS: Windows XP Professional x64 Edition 5 2] Current beta is 4.0.20.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
[no subject]
Hello tbbetas, Sorry about the previous wrong submission however it was as a result of a bug! I had opened a new mail from TBBETA folder and seeing this then deleted it and selected the correct addressee. Although the deletion appeared visually to work in practice it did not and it retained the deleted address and sent it to you. Moderator - can you delete this from the forum please. Can others confirm this as a bug. Best regards, Graham -- Graham Howe mail mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using TheBat 4.0.20.2 on Windows 5 SP2 Current beta is 4.0.20.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Damaged folders in Voyager
Hello, I am also experiencing similar symptoms with corrupted folders in Voyager, and indeed always did have this problem - while very impressed with the Voyager concept. Corruption is random so difficult to establish any pattern. I have tried different USB sticks and always found Corsairs Flash Voyager GT the best, with 100% data integrity - but still corruption of EMail folders, so the problem is NOT with the USB stick - unless the problem may be related to the flushing of cache. I was advised to keep the Inbox as small as possible and while this improved matters it is not a 100% cure. Without the option to drop encryption, the recovery of folders is almost impossible. One utility of great use would be an automated synchronising tool to allow Voyager users to synchronize with The Bat on their home/office PC. This would have the additional benefit of allowing partial recover of corrupted folders on the USB stick. The Voyager concept is brilliant - keep up the good work and let's see it improve, especially the integrity of folders. Best regards, Hamish mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ===8==Original message text=== Reply to message sent 04/18/2008, @ 08:33:06 (1:33 AM Locally) ~~~ Hello Maurice, I'm experiencing a lot of problems with damaged folders in my Voyager installation. 1) What can I do to prevent this from happening again? 2) What is the best procedure to restore Voyager from a backup? I'm afraid I can't really help with the questions but I can state I have lived through this also. It seems once a folder gets corrupted somehow it's lights out and there's no fixing it. I had to finally just delete the folders that were giving me problems and start over with them. I spent days fooling with them and in the end I lost messages. Backups didn't help as every time I restored a backup I just got the corrupted folders back. I never mentioned it here as I have no idea what causes them to go bad. If it was repeatable I'd have hoisted a flag, but since it just happens out of the blue it's hard to report a specific problem. Although, it is at times like this that I wish encryption with Voyager was optional. -- ò.ó Nick Danger [MUA: TB! Voyager 4.0.18.4] [OS: Windows XP Professional x64 Edition 5 2] Current beta is 4.0.20.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html ===8===End of original message text=== Current beta is 4.0.20.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Mod: Top posting (was: Damaged folders in Voyager)
Hallo [EMAIL PROTECTED], On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 15:28:38 +0100GMT (18-4-2008, 16:28, where I live), you wrote: HAN Best regards, HAN Hamish HAN mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] HAN ===8==Original message text=== HAN Reply to message sent 04/18/2008, @ 08:33:06 (1:33 AM Locally) HAN ~~~ HAN Hello Maurice, moderator Note: This moderator's interjection is a note to all readers and not just to the person being replied to, even if their post may have instigated this reply. Please don't feel singled out [EMAIL PROTECTED] ' This posting violated the list rules regarding top posting. Top posting, i.e., typing all your reply text at the top of your message and following it with all quoted text below, is not encouraged and we actually request that you not do so on this list because a) It makes it difficult to glean context from what you typed at the top of the message and b) It encourages excessive quoting. We would much prefer if you quote just that much of the message to which you're replying, so we know what it is you're referring to, and then below the quotation, type your response. If you're responding to more than one part of the original, then quote each part separately and follow each part with your response. Now, I know that you may not personally prefer this format and that you may disagree with some of the reasoning here. We very much respect this. However, this is the format that most of the active members here prefer and all members are expected, and are being asked to use the format that will make most of the active membership here comfortable reading. You'll likely get a more responsive group when you post using a style that is comfortable for them to read and understand. To find out why these MOD messages are posted to the list instead of private mail, please read the welcome message you received when you subscribed. Thank you. /moderator -- Groetjes, Roelof Decrease moderator unemployment: Post off-topic messages pgp1UyWw2vFph.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 4.0.20.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Messages cannot be dragged from messages list to Editor window
Hello Jay, On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 07:51:47 +0300 GMT (18/04/2008, 11:51 +0700 GMT), Jay Walker wrote: JW It seems that this is broken once more in 4.0.20.2. Not confirmed. Works fine here. JW Thomas, have you tried to drag a message from TB to a new message that JW must be restored from the taskbar? I used to be able to do that in JW 3.99.29. In 4.0.20.2, I can only drag to a message that is not hidden. No, not from the task bar. I didn't know this ever worked. I dragged the message directly from the folder view into the editor. -- Cheers, Thomas. Wer wagt gewinnt, aus 1000,- DM werden in nur 4-6 Wochen 7,- DM. * http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 4.0.20.2 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 4.0.20.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Mod: HTML use (was: Damaged folders in Voyager)
Hallo [EMAIL PROTECTED], On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 15:28:38 +0100GMT (18-4-2008, 16:28, where I live), you wrote: HAN I am also experiencing similar symptoms with corrupted folders HAN in Voyager, and indeed always did have this moderator Note: This moderator's interjection is a note to all readers and not just to the person being replied to, even if their post may have instigated this reply. Please don't feel singled out [EMAIL PROTECTED] ' Please do not send HTML messages to the list except for purposes of testing. While the merits of HTML are debatable, and have been discussed numerous times on the lists, the list rules prohibit HTML e-mail. You can easily automate this by using %SetEditor=1 in your list template. To find out why these MOD messages are posted to the list instead of private mail, please read the welcome message you received when you subscribed. Thank you. /moderator -- Groetjes, Roelof GUTS: Putting the name MODERATOR in your TWIT filter. pgpdjBtWWrn9m.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 4.0.20.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re:
Hallo Graham, On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 14:32:27 +0100GMT (18-4-2008, 15:32 +0200, where I live), you wrote: G Sorry about the previous wrong submission however it was as a result G of a bug! Not quite a bug, maybe unexpected for you, but this is the reason that we discourage the use of selfaddressing folder templates. G I had opened a new mail from TBBETA folder and seeing this then G deleted it and selected the correct addressee. Although the deletion G appeared visually to work in practice it did not and it retained the G deleted address and sent it to you. When you want to use a self addressing folder template use the macro %ModifyOnce('To')%- before you use the %To= macro. Header changing macros are interpreted more than once, so you've got to disable that. G Moderator - can you delete this from the forum please. Can't be done. This isn't a forum, but a mailing list, so your message has been sent to all subscribers and we don't have access to their message base. G Can others confirm this as a bug. Behaviour is confirmed, but not as a bug, but as a WAD. -- Groetjes, Roelof It is hard to believe that even his friends like him. http://www.voormijalleen.nl/ The Bat! 4.0.20.2 Windows Vista 6.0 Build 6000 3 pop3 accounts OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgpmkDZJt2T82.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 4.0.20.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Annoying behavior (Unread Tab)
Hello Mark, On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 10:35:26 +0200 GMT (18/04/2008, 15:35 +0700 GMT), Mark Partous wrote: TF However, if you have read all messages in a folder, it still jumps to TF the bottom instead of staying where it belongs. MP When I added a note saying the problem was solved, I did not have many MP folders with unread messages in them for some time. You can easily test this by marking several messages in a number of folders as unread. MP However, when you do have a lot of such folders, it is still a MP rather annoying behaviour... I have over 100 folders in the office. At any given morning, there are unread messages in 10-30 of them, totalling about 100 new messages. No, I don't have to reply to all of them, in many cases I'm just cc'ed in. However, without TB!'s superior folder management and filtering systems, it would take me a lot longer to get started in the morning. The Unread tab was a great improvement! But the current behaviour of the Unread tab is the reason I have still not upgraded from 3.99.x in the office, even though the Korean encoding bug is fixed, and the URL Download Manager also important for business newsletters from service providers. The Unread tab is more important for me now, as it greatly improves efficiency. In its previous incarnation, that is. For myself, the current behaviour is therefore a show-stopper. -- Cheers, Thomas. Top 10 Reasons To Go To Work Naked: 3. Diverts attention from the fact that you also came to work drunk. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 4.0.20.2 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 4.0.20.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Damaged folders in Voyager
4/18/2008 11:05 AM Hi Maurice, On 4/18/2008 Maurice Snellen wrote: MS One thing I also noted is that the foldername listed in the error MS saying it couldn't read the messages.ebb is not the same as the MS foldername listed when I look at the folder's properties. The folder name is supposed to be gibberish. MS 2) What is the best procedure to restore Voyager from a backup? I have seen message base corruption happen under two conditions. One is low free space on the drive/partition that the message base is located. The other is when I get impatient and do not allow enough time for a process to complete. If you have a file named *.BIN in the affected folder it has worked for me to delete the other files in the folder and rename the *.bin file to Messages.ebb. Of course this is done after closing Voyager and a copy of the folder is placed somewhere in case it is needed again. - -- Take Care, Paul Voyager v.3.99.4 on Win2k SP4-Rollup1 5.0.2195 No IMAP OTFE Current beta is 4.0.20.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[3]: Damaged folders in Voyager
One utility of great use would be an automated synchronising tool to allow Voyager users to synchronize with The Bat on their home/office PC. Just an idea, that I am using: I use Voyager on desktop and laptop PCs. If I have to go on a trip, copy a directory on the USB stick (and replace the license file, as I described it a while ago) and hit the road. Also, very easy to use e.g. StuffIt or winrar or something else to ZIP that one dir every night, so have daily backup. Vili Current beta is 4.0.20.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Feature Request
Hello Munango-Keewati, One of the features I still miss from PMMail (I've been using TB for three or four years now) is the ability to set a filter action to pop up a message box with a user-defined message. Any chance of getting this added to TB's wealth of features? You may want to support this: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=6028 -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v4.0.20 on Windows XP 5.1 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 4.0.20.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Feature Request
One of the features I still miss from PMMail (I've been using TB for three or four years now) is the ability to set a filter action to pop up a message box with a user-defined message. Any chance of getting this added to TB's wealth of features? You may want to support this: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=6028 I wrote a small program now in Delphi 3 for this. 190 kB. It contains a TMemo component, the only code is: procedure TForm1.FormShow(Sender: TObject); begin //Stay on top with Self do SetWindowPos(Handle,HWND_TOPMOST,Left,Top,Width,Height,SWP_NOACTIVATE or SWP_NOMOVE or SWP_NOSIZE); //Display the first command line parameter If ParamCount0 Then Memo1.Lines.Add(Paramstr(1)); end; If you setup a filter, Run external command, set a Command line like: C:\Program Files\The Bat!\Processing\TBAlert.exe Text to display then it will popup a window that stays on top until you close it. I allow to write into that memo box, if you need to. http://www.thebat.hu/TBAlert.exe Download, copy somewhere and point to that file in the filter and add the custom text. Simple for things like You've got mail. -- Vili Current beta is 4.0.20.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Video Issue?
I am noticing an issue that is happening only in The Bat I keep the Bat open all day as the day progresses (after quite a while) the bat will slow down i.e. I will use the down arrow to move to another message and it will hesitate before moving or if I mouse click on another message the display won't update in the preview window for a couple of seconds. Running the maintenance center dosen't help Clearing the cache doesn't help Closing and reopening the bat fixes the problem - which will reoccur over the next few hours Also closing at night - after clearing everything and running the maintenance center, I close the bat - the folders that compress will do so quickly but if the bat has been up a while the bat's window can stay visible for the best part of a minute. If I minimize to the tray and close it from there it is gone instantly -- Rick Republican Tax Cuts for the wealthy Look where it has got us so far! Lets do it some more! v4.0.20.2 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 4.0.20.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
VBScript (WAS Feature Request)
On Friday, April 18, 2008, 1:16:37 PM, Vili wrote: You may want to support this: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=6028 Done. I wrote a small program now in Delphi 3 for this. 190 kB. ... http://www.thebat.hu/TBAlert.exe ... Download, copy somewhere and point to that file in the filter and add the custom text. Simple for things like You've got mail. Thank you very much. This will do the job for me. Obviously my search skills are grossly inferior to Jens Franik's, but I had time to play with this some more today, and worked up a script that performed quite well outside TB. Unfortunately it won't run from TB. I suspect that TB won't execute vbs files, but of course I could be overlooking something in the code that TB is blocking. Aside from being tiny, it also allows up to five parameters (arguments) to be passed to it. Just in case anyone would like to take it farther, I'm including the code below: 'mailalert.vbs Dim objArgs, vNum, vMsg, Arg(5) Set objArgs = WScript.Arguments.Unnamed For vNum = 0 to objArgs.Count - 1 If vNum 6 Then Arg(vNum) = objArgs(vNum) End if Next vMsg = Type: Arg(0) Chr(13) _ Chr(13) _ From: Arg(1) Chr(13) _ Subject: Arg(2) Chr(13) _ Filter: Arg(3) Chr(13) _ Other Info: Arg(4) MsgBox vMsg, VBOkay, E-Mail Alert . . . Wscript.Quit -- Best, M-K Using The Bat! v4.0.18 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 4.0.20.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
HTML still needs some work
Hello All, I know HTML is like a red rag to a bull as far as some TB users are concerned, but nevertheless it does have its uses and it *is* used in the commercial world. Read on: An elderly neighbour of mine received an e-mail from an airline giving details of her flight details etc. and she needed to print it in order to book in for her flight. Her computer could not deal with it and I agreed that she should send the message to me to try. It turned out it was an HTML message. TB displayed the message perfectly but made a mess of the printing! The RH ends of the lines were cut off, it did not print the colour of the text (not serious!) and did not print some lines at all (white on green background). I tried opening the attachment in an external application but got an AV. I then saved the file and opened it from Opera which displayed and printed it perfectly. Out of curiosity I then tried opening it in MS Word but the *display* had errors, some of which disappeared in the printing! Obviously HTML is thus not the easiest of languages to deal with, but I urge our developers to press on with its development in TB, if they want TB to get maximum penetration into the world of commerce. -- Best regards, Roger :flag-southafrica: The Bat! v4.0.20.2 POP3 with AntiSpamSniper 2.8.1.1, on Windows XP, version 5 1, build 2600 and Service Pack 2 Current beta is 4.0.20.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: HTML still needs some work
I've never had a big problem viewing HTML in TB, but when I want to really view something, much less print, I open it in IE7. Why? It works. Most important for the problems described, it resizes things to fit in the print area of the page. No more chopped off edges of lines, of having to Print Preview and then rotate to landscape format, etc, etc. The tabs are mighty handy too. No, not pushing IE7 or anything else, just the idea that we should use the right tool for the job, and for that reason fancy work on TB isn't vital to me. Friday, April 18, 2008, 10:43:44 PM, you wrote: TB displayed the message perfectly but made a mess of the printing! The RH ends of the lines were cut off, it did not print the colour of the text (not serious!) and did not print some lines at all (white on green background). -- The road goes on forever and the party never ends. REK, Jr. Dan Lester, Boise, ID Current beta is 4.0.20.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Messages cannot be dragged from messages list to Editor window
On Fri, Apr 18, 2008 at 5:44 PM, Thomas Fernandez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: JW Thomas, have you tried to drag a message from TB to a new message that JW must be restored from the taskbar? I used to be able to do that in JW 3.99.29. In 4.0.20.2, I can only drag to a message that is not hidden. No, not from the task bar. I didn't know this ever worked. I dragged the message directly from the folder view into the editor. I think you are right, Thomas. Perhaps it was just my imagination - an unfulfilled wish - that we could do it. :-) -- jaywalker Windows XP Pro SP2 The Bat! Pro 4.0.20.2 Current beta is 4.0.20.2 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html