Re: A plea to the devleopers of this once great program
Hello Gene, Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 1:38:33 AM, you wrote: GK My plea is much more basic please fix the program so it will run. GK V5 crashed, now, I can't even load V4 The Bat! will not run on my GK computer. Do you have a back-up that dates from before the problem occurred? If so, did you try to remove TB! with something like Revo Uninstaller? -- Best Wishes, Mark using The Bat! Version 4.2.33.1 Beta MyMacros 1.11a zOmbie's Macros Version 0.7 Windows XP Professional/5.1 build 2600 Service Pack 3 (0 days 1:15:20) on Dual Intel Pentium III Current beta is 5.0.10.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Lack of OS Register Cleaning and Data Removal while uninstalling
Hi Guys, A few days back when importing back-up file on my notebook (and while switching from 5.0.8 to 5.0.10) I made mistake and have selected non encrypted version. I couldn't find an option to convert it to OTFE so I decided to uninstall TB! and install new copy. At the beginning I liked TB! remembered previous folder but after a while I have found that all my previously imported data are still visible in TB! despite of uninstalling TB! (unencrypted as prior to uninstall). After a few trials I removed folder with e-mail manually and reinstalled TB! again. But then it was not loading (process was visible as running but nothing was happening). Finally I had to manually clear Windows Register from everything that was connected to TB! (if you want to try edit it, please remember to make a copy of register prior to modifying - just in case). After register was cleared and data removed from HDD TB! installed properly (and asked if it should be normal or OTFE). My question here is if not removing data nor clearing register is something that is supposed to happen while uninstalling? If so, I really can not imagine what is the reason to do that. Nor can imagine that most of users can do that by themselves manually (especially that there was no information that this data are not going to be erased). Is the manual work here really necessary? I do not dare to ask any of the users to confirm the issue - it might be a bit inconvenient to try. -- Best regards, RS The Bat! 5.0.8 Windows7 Professional (x64) Polish (SP1) OTFE Enabled ; so far only 3 POP3 accounts The Bat! 5.0.10 Windows7 Ultimate (x64) English (SP1) OTFE Enabled ; so far only 3 POP3 accounts Current beta is 5.0.10.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
5.0.12.1
The Bat! 5.0.12.1 is available at http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/a-5/tb50121.rar What's new in 5.0.12.1 since 5.0.12: [-] Coping/moving multiple messages from one folder to another within the same IMAP account can cause downloading overlay icon over destination folder to persist forever. It also prevent the program from being closed. [+] Addes support for the Armenian language Current beta is 5.0.10.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.12.1
Hello Maxim, Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 5:14:38 AM, you wrote: What's new in 5.0.12.1 since 5.0.12: [-] Coping/moving multiple messages from one folder to another within the same IMAP account can cause downloading overlay icon over destination folder to persist forever. It also prevent the program from being closed. [+] Addes support for the Armenian language Loaded with no problem. Jerry -- Ethan J Mings President, The Desk Consulting Group Inc Oakville, Ontario Canada. L6L 3B7 Write to me at: qualityoff...@consultant.com Skype me at : ejmings Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Lack of OS Register Cleaning and Data Removal while uninstalling
On Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 9:22:44, RS wrote: My question here is if not removing data nor clearing register is something that is supposed to happen while uninstalling? Yes. Windows does not offer any reliable way to remove user-specific settings (both registry and files, stored in the user profile directory) at uninstall time (since there's no guarantee that the uninstaller is running as the same user that used the program; also, even if that was the case, there's no way to know if the profile is shared between multiple computers, and the uninstall is happening on a single computer). -- Jernej Simončič http://eternallybored.org/ [ The Bat! 5.0.10 on Windows 7 6.1.7601.Service Pack 1 ] Hot glass looks exactly the same as cold glass. -- First Law of Laboratory Work Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Lack of OS Register Cleaning and Data Removal while uninstalling
Hi Jernej, My question here is if not removing data nor clearing register is something that is supposed to happen while uninstalling? Yes. Windows does not offer any reliable way to remove user-specific settings (both registry and files, stored in the user profile directory) at uninstall time (since there's no guarantee that the uninstaller is running as the same user that used the program; also, even if that was the case, there's no way to know if the profile is shared between multiple computers, and the uninstall is happening on a single computer). If I understand your reasoning properly we should never ever uninstall any software nor remove any entries from register. I might be mistaken but it's rather not a common approach. The software 'knows' what it modifies and where or at least should be able to scan some files (ex: registry file) for it's own entries. Database on HDD If TB! creates data folder (can be created at a folder appointed by user not necessarily at user profile's directory) it exactly knows where it is so can should be able to delete it or at least let user know that it's left there. In my opinion it's quite heavy issue... Even if it's shared between multiple computers (or network share) it can operate on it so can remove it as well - rights for that are granted on OS level. Entries in Registry Same as above - I mean for instance a whole group called RIT with subgroups 'Spell Check' and 'The Bat!' - it's all left there in the registry after uninstall and it's not allowing you to install a clean copy of TB! - because you always get a e-mail box you just tried to remove. There are much more TB!'s entries in the register than mentioned above, for instance in Installer / TBVars (and subgroups) / The Bat! mailto (and subgroups) / and so on. For instance if somehow data file gets corrupted and TB! can't properly start with that file, even if you uninstall your software and install it again it won't run because of all this leftovers after previous uninstall. Something is not right here... -- Best regards, RS The Bat! 5.0.8 Windows7 Professional (x64) Polish (SP1) OTFE Enabled ; so far only 3 POP3 accounts The Bat! 5.0.10 Windows7 Ultimate (x64) English (SP1) OTFE Enabled ; so far only 3 POP3 accounts Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Lack of OS Register Cleaning and Data Removal while uninstalling
On Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 17:55:23, RS wrote: If I understand your reasoning properly we should never ever uninstall any software nor remove any entries from register. No, you don't. It's perfectly possible to remove global registry entries and program files once they're not needed anymore. I might be mistaken but it's rather not a common approach. It actually is. Office for example behaves in the same way. The software 'knows' what it modifies and where or at least should be able to scan some files (ex: registry file) for it's own entries. The software does, but the uninstaller doesn't, because the uninstaller has no reliable way to access this data (normal programs have no way of affecting the global state, and the uninstallers have no reliable access to the local state). Database on HDD If TB! creates data folder (can be created at a folder appointed by user not necessarily at user profile's directory) it exactly knows where it is so can should be able to delete it or at least let user know that it's left there. In my opinion it's quite heavy issue... Even if it's shared between multiple computers (or network share) it can operate on it so can remove it as well - rights for that are granted on OS level. Windows supports both remote and roaming profiles. If a profile is roaming or remote, it's entirely possible that the (un)installer has no privileges to access it (because it's very possible that the profile isn't even loaded on local computer at the time the uninstaller is running - and even if it is, if the uninstaller is running as a different user, it can't easily access files that don't belong to that user). Entries in Registry Same as above - I mean for instance a whole group called RIT with subgroups 'Spell Check' and 'The Bat!' - it's all left there in the registry after uninstall and it's not allowing you to install a clean copy of TB! - because you always get a e-mail box you just tried to remove. Exactly - same as above. User registry is just a database file in the profile directory, so similar rules of access apply (except that registry imposes some additional restrictions). There are much more TB!'s entries in the register than mentioned above, for instance in Installer / TBVars (and subgroups) / The Bat! mailto (and subgroups) / and so on. Anything you see under HKEY_CURRENT_USER is not available to the uninstaller - only entries in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE are. Also, it's registry, not register. For instance if somehow data file gets corrupted and TB! can't properly start with that file, even if you uninstall your software and install it again it won't run because of all this leftovers after previous uninstall. Something is not right here... If a file gets corrupted in such way that it prevents the program from running, that's a bug in the program. If this is a user-specific file, a workaround is to remove that file. -- Jernej Simončič http://eternallybored.org/ [ The Bat! 5.0.10 on Windows 7 6.1.7601.Service Pack 1 ] Anticipated events never live up to expectations. -- Levy's Second Law of the Disillusionment of the True Liberal Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Lack of OS Register Cleaning and Data Removal while uninstalling
Hi Raymund / Jernej, RS I might be mistaken but it's rather not a common approach. Jernej It actually is. Office for example behaves in the same way. Raymund Every installation that is based on Windows Installer behaves Raymund like this. Confused here a bit. Should I understand that if I uninstall for instance Corel, Open Office, Thunderbird or Matlab they will leave database on HDD and entries in the registry? -- Best regards, RS The Bat! 5.0.8 Windows7 Professional (x64) Polish (SP1) OTFE Enabled ; so far only 3 POP3 accounts The Bat! 5.0.10 Windows7 Ultimate (x64) English (SP1) OTFE Enabled ; so far only 3 POP3 accounts Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.10 MSI - thebat_error_20110430.gif (1/1)
Hello Tony, On Tue, 3 May 2011 18:00:58 +0100 GMT (04/May/11, 0:00 AM +0700 GMT), Tony Hoare wrote: I just tested Gene's mail using Windows Live Mail and I see the image. As Tony said, some MUA are more forgiving, from what you say, TB!4.x is more forgiving as well. Is this a bug or a feature though? TH I wouldn't want to distract the devs from the more pressing issues: TH Filters and virtual folders - for me at least. Sure. But if image attachments are not shown any more, I would qualify this as another show-stopper. TH The Sizes Differ!! exception is most annoying and I'm sure is TH contributing to the above two. -- Cheers, Thomas. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 4.2.44 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Lack of OS Register Cleaning and Data Removal while uninstalling
Hi Raymund, Should I understand that if I uninstall for instance Corel, Open Office, Thunderbird or Matlab they will leave database on HDD and entries in the registry? Yes, they all do except for the currently logged in user that triggers the uninstall. Thank you for answer. TB! is visible in the in the uninstaller from a second user (admin rights as well) ; there are TB! entries in the registry as well (I didn't compare them) but I think the main entry of RIT is not here (user dependant). The values that looks responsible for not allowing a new installation are under: HKEY_CURRENT_USER (assuming that). So it should be possible to remove HDD database and RIT entry from registry for a currently logged user and do not affect other users (it's probably more than 99% of situations). Need to think about that. -- Best regards, RS The Bat! 5.0.8 Windows7 Professional (x64) Polish (SP1) OTFE Enabled ; so far only 3 POP3 accounts The Bat! 5.0.10 Windows7 Ultimate (x64) English (SP1) OTFE Enabled ; so far only 3 POP3 accounts Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Lack of OS Register Cleaning and Data Removal while uninstalling
On Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 19:47:05, RS wrote: Should I understand that if I uninstall for instance Corel, Open Office, Thunderbird or Matlab they will leave database on HDD and entries in the registry? Exactly. -- Jernej Simončič http://eternallybored.org/ [ The Bat! 5.0.10 on Windows 7 6.1.7601.Service Pack 1 ] Far-away talent always seems better than home-developed talent. -- Hunter's Theory of Personnel Recruitment Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Lack of OS Register Cleaning and Data Removal while uninstalling
On Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 20:01:19, Raymund Tump wrote: Yes, they all do except for the currently logged in user that triggers the uninstall. Nearly all installers leave all data behind even for the user that launched the uninstaller (a few offer an option to delete current user's data, but that's seen very rarely). -- Jernej Simončič http://eternallybored.org/ [ The Bat! 5.0.10 on Windows 7 6.1.7601.Service Pack 1 ] Experience varies directly with equipment ruined. -- Horner's Five Thumb Postulate Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: 5.0.10 MSI - thebat_error_20110430.gif (1/1)
Title: Re[2]: 5.0.10 MSI - thebat_error_20110430.gif (1/1) Hi Thomas Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 3:00:15 PM, Thomas wrote: Hello Tony, On Tue, 3 May 2011 18:00:58 +0100 GMT (04/May/11, 0:00 AM +0700 GMT), Tony Hoare wrote: I just tested Gene's mail using Windows Live Mail and I see the image. As Tony said, some MUA are more forgiving, from what you say, TB!4.x is more forgiving as well. Is this a bug or a feature though? TH I wouldn't want to distract the devs from the more pressing issues: TH Filters and virtual folders - for me at least. Sure. But if image attachments are not shown any more, I would qualify this as another show-stopper. This is a gray area. This is a badly formed mail. There are no MIME headers. We can't blame TB! for that. Behaviour depends on the MUA of choice. These are the tests I did. Platform Program Result Windows emClient Shows uuencode data Windows TB! 5.x Shows uuencode data Windows Windows Live Mail Shows image correctly Linux Evolution Shows image badly Webmail sqwebmail Shows uuencode data Definitely not a show stopper. -- __ _ Debian GNU User Simon Martin / /(_)_ __ _ ___ __ __ Project Manager / / | | '_ \| | | \ \/ / Milliways / /__| | | | | |_| | mailto:smar...@milliways.cl \/_|_| |_|\__,_/_/\_\ Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Lack of OS Register Cleaning and Data Removal while uninstalling
Hi Jernej, Nearly all installers leave all data behind even for the user that launched the uninstaller (a few offer an option to delete current user's data, but that's seen very rarely). Just found out that under unistaller there is info in program description part (bottom) that to remove your data you should pick up Change (and so on...) instead of Uninstall. Unfortunately it's not so visible :( Comment column (as visible on the right) is off by default in the OS :( Anyway, on W7 RIT's information is shown only in program description part. It's not visible in the comment column after it's added to the view. Guys - thanks for your time and explanations. -- Best regards, RS The Bat! 5.0.8 Windows7 Professional (x64) Polish (SP1) OTFE Enabled ; so far only 3 POP3 accounts The Bat! 5.0.10 Windows7 Ultimate (x64) English (SP1) OTFE Enabled ; so far only 3 POP3 accounts Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re[2]: 5.0.10 MSI - thebat_error_20110430.gif (1/1)
Hi Simon, as mentioned earlier, the message has all the MIME delimiters over here. Can you check the source in the MUAs in your list? -- regards Raymund -- Grüße, Raymund Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[4]: 5.0.10 MSI - thebat_error_20110430.gif (1/1)
Title: Re[4]: 5.0.10 MSI - thebat_error_20110430.gif (1/1) Hi Raymond, Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 4:19:13 PM, Tbbeta wrote: Hi Simon, as mentioned earlier, the message has all the MIME delimiters over here. Can you check the source in the MUAs in your list? I went one better than that and I checked the mail in the IMAP directory on the server. There are no MIME headers. -- __ _ Debian GNU User Simon Martin / /(_)_ __ _ ___ __ __ Project Manager / / | | '_ \| | | \ \/ / Milliways / /__| | | | | |_| | mailto:smar...@milliways.cl \/_|_| |_|\__,_/_/\_\ Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.10 MSI - thebat_error_20110430.gif (1/1)
Dear Tony, @3-May-2011, 09:36 Tony Hoare [TH] in mid:1711480403.20110503093...@parkinch.co.uk said to Simon: ... snip TH I do see this a lot from various senders so it would be great if TB TH could handle this ONE DAY. I understand there are a lot more important TH issues for now. TH Gene, was this actually produced buy TB? Aye - there's the rub! This message came in using Forte agent via the GMane feed for this list. A double whammy by any definition. And there is nothing in the header to indicate that any data here should be interpreted as a graphic image type. I think it's about the attachment being in News format instead of MIME email encapsulation. -- Cheers -- Marck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user TB! v5.0.12.1 on Windows 7 6.1.7601 Service Pack 1 ' pgpT3f2lKX2zS.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: 5.0.10 MSI - thebat_error_20110430.gif (1/1)
Title: Re[2]: 5.0.10 MSI - thebat_error_20110430.gif (1/1) Hi Raymond, Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 5:32:32 PM, Raymund wrote: Hi Simon, I went one better than that and I checked the mail in the IMAP directory on the server. There are no MIME headers. That brings us back to the original question: which server is that? My server is Courier. -- __ _ Debian GNU User Simon Martin / /(_)_ __ _ ___ __ __ Project Manager / / | | '_ \| | | \ \/ / Milliways / /__| | | | | |_| | mailto:smar...@milliways.cl \/_|_| |_|\__,_/_/\_\ Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Chinese language filtering bug
Hello RS, Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 12:15:39 AM, you wrote: Is there any way I can change category? Or should I send a message to somebody or report it again? Contact Marek Mikus please. He has the privilege to move or edit those reports. -- Best regards, Miles Changmailto:drift...@gmx.com Translator of Chinese The Bat! AntispamSniper Using The Bat! v5.0.10.1 (BETA) with AntispamSniper v3.2.6.4 MyMacros 1.11a on Windows XP (v5.1.2600, Service Pack 3) Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.10 MSI - thebat_error_20110430.gif (1/1)
Hello Simon, Sorry for top-posting, but my email client is not very good at HTML... ;-) These are a few of the headers I found in the source of the incoming message: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=--1016115C1189A014 1016115C1189A014 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [follow by the plain text part of the message, i.e. only the offter] 1016115C1189A014 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name=thebat_error_20110430.gif Content-Transfer-Encoding: x-uuencode [followed by gibberish, which my email client interpreted as an attached gif file] Not really a reason to upgrade from v4 to v5 methinks, and not an improvement for the user. Thursday, May 5, 2011, 2:13:39 AM, you wrote: Hi Thomas Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 3:00:15 PM, Thomas wrote: Hello Tony, On Tue, 3 May 2011 18:00:58 +0100 GMT (04/May/11, 0:00 AM +0700 GMT), Tony Hoare wrote: I just tested Gene's mail using Windows Live Mail and I see the image. As Tony said, some MUA are more forgiving, from what you say, TB!4.x is more forgiving as well. Is this a bug or a feature though? TH I wouldn't want to distract the devs from the more pressing issues: TH Filters and virtual folders - for me at least. Sure. But if image attachments are not shown any more, I would qualify this as another show-stopper. This is a gray area. This is a badly formed mail. There are no MIME headers. We can't blame TB! for that. Behaviour depends on the MUA of choice. These are the tests I did. Platform Program Result Windows emClient Shows uuencode data Windows TB! 5.x Shows uuencode data Windows Windows Live Mail Shows image correctly Linux Evolution Shows image badly Webmail sqwebmail Shows uuencode data Definitely not a show stopper. -- __ _ Debian GNU User Simon Martin / /(_)_ __ _ ___ __ __ Project Manager / / | | '_ \| | | \ \/ / Milliways / /__| | | | | |_| | mailto: smar...@milliways.cl \/_|_| |_|\__,_/_/\_\ Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes -- Cheers, Thomas. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 4.2.44 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: 5.0.10 MSI - thebat_error_20110430.gif (1/1)
Hello Marck, On Wed, 4 May 2011 21:38:49 +0100 GMT (05/May/11, 3:38 AM +0700 GMT), Marck Pearlstone wrote: TH Gene, was this actually produced buy TB? MP Aye - there's the rub! MP This message came in using Forte agent via the GMane feed for this MP list. A double whammy by any definition. And there is nothing in the MP header to indicate that any data here should be interpreted as a MP graphic image type. MP I think it's about the attachment being in News format instead of MP MIME email encapsulation. The attachment was in UUENCODE format, which TBv4 interprets correctly. -- Cheers, Thomas. http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 4.2.44 under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current beta is 5.0.12.1 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
