Re: Outbox bug that over-rides macros for OpenPGP in Address Book templates
Thomas Fernandez wrote: TF> It's not a bug, because it works exactly as designed. As Roelof TF> pointed out. I'm guessing it's more an oversight than a design decision. In any case, message state is being discarded on save and in my book that's a bug. GM>> If you save, close and reopen a message, the editor should be in GM>> *exactly* the same state as it was before closing. The complete GM>> message state, including any PGP settings, should be saved with GM>> the draft message. TF> I agree. And this is exactly why a Drafts folder is being requested. I don't see the connection. The issue here is what is or isn't being saved, not where. -- George Using The Bat! 3.63.08 (Beta) on Windows XP Pro, Service Pack 2. Current beta is 3.63.09 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Outbox bug that over-rides macros for OpenPGP in Address Book templates
Hello Thomas! On Thursday, December 15, 2005, 9:52 AM, you wrote: GM>> If you save, close and reopen a message, the editor should be in GM>> *exactly* the same state as it was before closing. The complete GM>> message state, including any PGP settings, should be saved with GM>> the draft message. > I agree. And this is exactly why a Drafts folder is being requested. And to take away the necessity (business-wise necessity, at least) for the newly created "Outbox Protection" feature. A feature that is clumsily designed and will get in everyone's way except that of the particular Corporate User for whose complaint it was created. Please support the wish for a 'Draft' folder at: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5441 -- Best regards, Please support the wish for a 'Draft' folder at: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5441 Mary The Bat 3.63.08 (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.63.09 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Outbox bug that over-rides macros for OpenPGP in Address Book templates
Hello George, On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 00:34:39 -0800 GMT (15/12/2005, 15:34 +0700 GMT), George Mitchell wrote: GM> IMO, this is a bug; just not one that has anything to do with GM> templates. It's not a bug, because it works exactly as designed. As Roelof pointed out. GM> If you save, close and reopen a message, the editor should be in GM> *exactly* the same state as it was before closing. The complete GM> message state, including any PGP settings, should be saved with GM> the draft message. I agree. And this is exactly why a Drafts folder is being requested. -- Cheers, Thomas. Ever notice that PRICE and WORTH mean the same thing, but priceless and worthless are opposites? -- Jay Trachman http://thomas.fernandez.hat-gar-keine-homepage.de/ Message reply created with The Bat! 3.63.06 (Beta) under Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.63.09 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Outbox bug that over-rides macros for OpenPGP in Address Book templates
Hello George! On Thursday, December 15, 2005, 2:34 AM, you wrote: MB>>> It is not a new feature that I'm asking for. RO>> Yes, it is a new feature. Just because you don't understand RO>> what's causing the issue, doesn't mean it's a bug. > IMO, this is a bug; just not one that has anything to do with > templates. If you save, close and reopen a message, the editor > should be in *exactly* the same state as it was before closing. The > complete message state, including any PGP settings, should be saved > with the draft message. Thank you so very much, George, for posting your opinion. Would you please support my BT Issue report at http://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5453 ? -- Best regards, Please support the wish for a 'Draft' folder at: https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5441 Mary The Bat 3.63.11 (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.63.09 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Unwanted Outbox Behavior [was Re: Outbox bug that over-rides macros for OpenPGP in Address Book templates]
Hello Roelof! On Thursday, December 15, 2005, 2:02 AM, you wrote: MB>> Well, I have been writing about this for two days, ever since it > Yes, I noticed, but I didn't have the time to reply to it before. I meant, why didn't Maxim, especially, mention it, since he made a direct response to me--if that's how things are? I didn't mean you. :) I know how busy you are. MB>> In my logical, "commonsense" amateur view, the Outbox should MB>> respect the address in the To Field and Address Book templates MB>> should prevail over Account templates. > Listen carefully what you're saying now. You're talking about address > book templates and account templates, but it's no account template > that's bugging you, it's either a general setting. When you're opening > a written message there is no template that can be interpreted, > because when that would happen, you'd lose the text you'd already > written. You can't have half of the template to be interpreted again > and the other half to be neglected. I guess the mechanics of the operation are still beyond my ability to understand. When I re-open a message from one of my Inbox folders, none of that text, whether in headers or message body, changes. It's still all the same in my "View Folder" window. So how is that different from re-opening a message in the Outbox folder? Maxim has a bug report on this issue as regards S/Mime encryption at https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=2443 I have put a note referring to it in my report on the OpenPGP "Sign" and "Sign Complete" issues at https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5453 MB>> So, whether it's a failure in design or a bug in the design workings, MB>> it is something I deal with--not every once in a while, as you do--but MB>> every day. > In that case I can only suggest that you finish your messages without > saving them as draft. You could change the general setting when it's > bothering you that much, but I guess that would mean that when you're > writing a message you don't want to sign, will prompt you for a > signature. Ah. Well, you see, sometimes I like to think about what I'm saying--even overnight, after I've closed TB! and shut my computer down. Additionally, the reason I Save messages into the Outbox so often is to be able to check their appearance in Rich Text View. I have a subfolder to Outbox called "Reference." I copy the entry of my message into that folder from the Outbox. I then open it and I can see in Rich Text View whether I've made a mistake in typing a Smiley "handle" and whether I like (aesthetically) the placement of that Smiley at a particular position in the body text of my message. I am pleased that MicroEd displays only plain text. This is my way to compose in plain text and double-check the Smileys in rich text. I enjoy both the Default set of Smileys and the PCWSmileys immensely. As you have no doubt noticed. :) MB>> It is not a new feature that I'm asking for. > Yes, it is a new feature. Just because you don't understand what's > causing the issue, doesn't mean it's a bug. Well, I am changing what I call it to "Unwanted Outbox Behavior." See amended subject line in the headers of this message. I did that because I trust your judgment on the terminology about this even though I still don't understand the explanation. MB>> It is for the MicroEd to work when called from the Outbox the MB>> same as it does when called from "Write a message to this MB>> address" or when called from a Reply button or Reply shortcut MB>> key. > No, you don't want that, because that would mean that you'd start > with an empty message and you don't want that. Okay. I trust your judgment on how to word what I want. For now, I am leaving my BT report in the Issues section. If I understood Stefan Tanurkov's reply to me last night correctly, that is where it belongs. See mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] . He referred me to an old bug report, and I did a search on the string "PGP" and found the one by Maxim about encryption in S/Mime. Found no other that addressed this particular problem with the Outbox. Thank you so much for your patience, Roelof. If you would like to try to explain this to me further, I would be most happy to read what you have to say and try to understand it. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.63.11 (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.63.09 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Outbox bug that over-rides macros for OpenPGP in Address Book templates
Roelof Otten wrote: MB>> It is not a new feature that I'm asking for. RO> Yes, it is a new feature. Just because you don't understand what's RO> causing the issue, doesn't mean it's a bug. IMO, this is a bug; just not one that has anything to do with templates. If you save, close and reopen a message, the editor should be in *exactly* the same state as it was before closing. The complete message state, including any PGP settings, should be saved with the draft message. -- George Using The Bat! 3.63.08 (Beta) on Windows XP Pro, Service Pack 2. Current beta is 3.63.09 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Outbox bug that over-rides macros for OpenPGP in Address Book templates
Hallo Mary, On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 15:48:16 -0600GMT (14-12-2005, 22:48 +0100, where I live), you wrote: MB> Well, I have been writing about this for two days, ever since it Yes, I noticed, but I didn't have the time to reply to it before. MB> In my logical, "commonsense" amateur view, the Outbox should respect MB> the address in the To Field and Address Book templates should prevail MB> over Account templates. Listen carefully what you're saying now. You're talking about address book templates and account templates, but it's no account template that's bugging you, it's either a general setting. When you're opening a written message there is no template that can be interpreted, because when that would happen, you'd lose the text you'd already written. You can't have half of the template to be interpreted again and the other half to be neglected. MB> So, whether it's a failure in design or a bug in the design workings, MB> it is something I deal with--not every once in a while, as you do--but MB> every day. In that case I can only suggest that you finish your messages without saving them as draft. You could change the general setting when it's bothering you that much, but I guess that would mean that when you're writing a message you don't want to sign, will prompt you for a signature. MB> It is not a new feature that I'm asking for. Yes, it is a new feature. Just because you don't understand what's causing the issue, doesn't mean it's a bug. MB> It is for the MicroEd to work when called from the Outbox the same as MB> it does when called from "Write a message to this address" or when MB> called from a Reply button or Reply shortcut key. No, you don't want that, because that would mean that you'd start with an empty message and you don't want that. -- Groetjes, Roelof Wizard's Guild Parking Only: Violators will be Toad. The Bat! 3.63.12 (Beta) Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgpuKlZXgNFqN.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.63.09 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Outbox bug that over-rides macros for OpenPGP in Address Book templates
Hello Roelof! On Wednesday, December 14, 2005, 3:29 PM, you wrote: > Basically what you ask for is a complete new macro engine. That's no > bugfix, but a new feature. > Mind you, I don't mind such a new feature, after all I run into this > myself every once in a while, but add it to the wishlist and not as a > bug, because that means that you don't understand TB's macro system. Thanks, Roelof. Well, I have been writing about this for two days, ever since it became evident that the Outbox code was getting attention from the developers. And this is the first that anyone, including Maxim, has tried to explain this aspect to me. In my logical, "commonsense" amateur view, the Outbox should respect the address in the To Field and Address Book templates should prevail over Account templates. So, whether it's a failure in design or a bug in the design workings, it is something I deal with--not every once in a while, as you do--but every day. It is not a new feature that I'm asking for. It is for the MicroEd to work when called from the Outbox the same as it does when called from "Write a message to this address" or when called from a Reply button or Reply shortcut key. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.63.11 (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.63.09 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Outbox bug that over-rides macros for OpenPGP in Address Book templates
Hallo Mary, On Wed, 14 Dec 2005 14:17:25 -0600GMT (14-12-2005, 21:17 +0100, where I live), you wrote: MB> It is about the long-standing bug in the Outbox behavior that causes MB> it to over-ride Address Book template macros for OpenPGP and instead MB> uses the setting in Account/Properties/Options/Message-editor. That's no bug. That's because macros are only executed when you start to edit the message body. When you edit the text and afterwards you alter the To: header you're not complaining that the macro driven salutation isn't adapted? Same as when you use the %Attachments macro, it's only used when you start to edit the text, when you add an attachment later, then your text is adapted. This is the same only more so. To alter this behaviour you should need macros that are executed at sending, at saving, etc. The %NoUsePGP macro sets an editor property, but as soon as you close that editor your properties get lost and on opening a new editor the account settings are used. Basically what you ask for is a complete new macro engine. That's no bugfix, but a new feature. Mind you, I don't mind such a new feature, after all I run into this myself every once in a while, but add it to the wishlist and not as a bug, because that means that you don't understand TB's macro system. -- Groetjes, Roelof It is dangerous to confuse children with angels. The Bat! 3.63.11 (Beta) Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 1 pop3 account, server on LAN OTFE enabled P4 3GHz 2 GB RAM pgpfpYwNCH9HS.pgp Description: PGP signature Current beta is 3.63.09 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Outbox bug that over-rides macros for OpenPGP in Address Book templates
Hello Everyone! Please support https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5453 It is about the long-standing bug in the Outbox behavior that causes it to over-ride Address Book template macros for OpenPGP and instead uses the setting in Account/Properties/Options/Message-editor. The bug happens like this: 1) Write a message using an Address Book template which contains, for example, %NOUSEPGP. 2) Have your setting in Account/Properties/Options/Message-editor be a checked box beside "Sign when Completed" (and also beside "Enable OpenPGP). 3) Place the message you've written in the Outbox. 4) Close the Editor window. 5) Go to the Outbox and re-open the message. 6) Click on the Privacy drop-down menu. 7) You will see the box beside "Sign when Completed" checked--contrary to the %NOUSEPGP macro in the Address Book template which should be governing that message. 8) Result: Unless you manually uncheck the Privacy menu box for "Sign when Completed," your message will go out signed when you intended to send it unsigned. And, vice-versa, if you reverse the settings I've outlined above for your test: the message will go out unsigned when you intended it to be signed. Any support will be appreciated for https://www.ritlabs.com/bt/view.php?id=5453 -- Best regards, Mary The Bat 3.63.08 (Beta) on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 2 Current beta is 3.63.09 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
