Re[2]: 3.51, Communication, and the Ethics of Beta Testing
In reply to mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : JW I doubt this. Had they known it, they would have fixed it. It turns out to be an elusive bug, as some encounter it and others don't. JW Thomas, perhaps it is just a bug. But even if it was just a bug, JW why did RL lose sight of their goal to publish a new release to JW replace the old one that left out BayesIt? It seems likely that JW this bug got introduced along with the 3.51 MSI. So why not drop JW back to 3.5.36 and make another stab at 3.51, this time without JW working on the charset issues? Why did we see 3.51.1, 3.51.2, JW 3.51.3, and 3.51.4 - all playing with this same issue if it is JW just a bug and not an attempt to implement a new degree of unicode JW support? Jay I agree with you. I think that we are not really beta testing but using beta versions. You may think there isn't a big difference but I, personally, make a big difference. Beta testing, for me, means that we are going to test specific, known, changed features and their interaction with the rest of the program to spot implementation problems. Use beta versions for me is like using unsafe, unreliable versions of the program as legitimate, safe, known-bugs free, production versions. IMHO RL should define the beta cycles before releasing betas, tell us what they expect to fulfill from the beta cycle. Definitely they should do a development roadmap. This way we could focus our attention. -- Best regards, Goncalo Farias The further away from home you are the harder your pecker Current beta is 3.51.9 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: 3.51, Communication, and the Ethics of Beta Testing
Good day, Natasha. NVP ICAM. You're free to choose whichever level of TB suits your NVP current needs. To NVP help you make this decision, RL posts, on a daily basis, NVP all their fixes at NVP http://www.ritlabs.com/download/files3/the_bat/beta/daily.txt NVP and in addition NVP posts the change log along with the available NVP beta downloads at NVP http://www.ritlabs.com/en/tbbeta/index.php?login=yes. Sorry, but link to daily build is slightly different. Changelog is stored here: www.ritlabs.com/download/the_bat/beta/daily.txt And build is stored here: www.ritlabs.com/download/the_bat/beta/daily.rar -- WBR Vladimir 'insider' Prohorov mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [email only]|[3MB inbox]|[ICQ #179598229]|[RLU #389152]|[Skype inside_r] The Bat! 3.51 @ Windows 2003 (Build 3790 ) [uptime :: 0d 0h 47m] Current beta is 3.51.4 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: 3.51, Communication, and the Ethics of Beta Testing
Good day beta list members, Monday, July 18, 2005, 9:58:56 AM, you wrote: On 7/18/05, Natasha V Pearce wrote: been taken out of context, but if you feel I've misquoted you and/or quoted them in a misleading or otherwise inappropriate manner, please feel free to send down the fire-breathing trout of vengeance to toast me in the pit of eternal torment. Natasha, believe it or not, this is a very serious topic for me. I do not want to raise any temperatures. I think there is a serious problem that needs to be addressed. Although Max's mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] clearly states that: It fixes charset issues of the latest 3.5.xx I had no idea that instead of this ostensible objective RL was going to use me as an alpha tester for a feature or enhancement that would distort the content of messages that I transmit. That is correct, Natasha. And, if I recall correctly, you also had no idea that you were testing a new feature that was going to change the content of your messages. According to Max, the purpose of that MSI was to fix existing issues in 3.5.xx - which, it seems, did not include the loss of content in messages that you discovered in 3.51. Also, please read what Max said again. He was giving us an MSI that was intended to fix one last problem in 3.5.xx before putting this release up for download. With an introduction like that - and with the BayesIt problem still unresolved - who would imagine that we would be embarking on an entirely new series of beta (pardon, me, alpha) testing of a very risky nature? Certainly I did not expect that, and I was genuinely shocked to discover it. So I have a fundamental concern here. I believe that the July 6 announcement of 3.51 on this forum (see below) was entirely misleading. Based on? See above. Are you sure you are cut out for testing software? Sounds like you might find your niche looking for raised paving slabs and bringing a claim against your local authority, or starting one of those US originated Where there's blame there's a claim rackets. All IMO. -- Best regards, Chrismailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 3.51.4 Windows 2000 5 Current beta is 3.51.4 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Re[2]: 3.51, Communication, and the Ethics of Beta Testing
On 7/18/05, Chris Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you sure you are cut out for testing software? Testing software? Yes. Testing a RitLabs email client? I am not sure any longer... for the reasons stated in my initial message on this thread. The simple fact is that I cannot afford to have message content changed. The consequences of this - for me and for others - could be quite severe. Accuracy of transmission is the main feature that initially sold me on TB. Had I known that I would be beta testing (or, still worse, alpha testing) a feature like this, I would definitely have opted out of that cycle. -- jaywalker Windows XP Pro SP2 and The Bat! Pro (No OTFE) 3.5.36 Current beta is 3.51.4 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re[2]: 3.51, Communication, and the Ethics of Beta Testing
Hello Jay, Monday, July 18, 2005, 11:58:56, you wrote: With an introduction like that - and with the BayesIt problem still unresolved - who would imagine that we would be embarking on an entirely new series of beta (pardon, me, alpha) testing of a very risky nature? Do you mean the BayesIt isn't included in 3.51? -- Best regards, Maxim Masiutinmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current beta is 3.51.4 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
Re: Re[2]: 3.51, Communication, and the Ethics of Beta Testing
On 7/18/05, Maxim Masiutin wrote: Monday, July 18, 2005, 11:58:56, you wrote: With an introduction like that - and with the BayesIt problem still unresolved - who would imagine that we would be embarking on an entirely new series of beta (pardon, me, alpha) testing of a very risky nature? Do you mean the BayesIt isn't included in 3.51? No, Maxim, what I mean is that the version that the RL customers and potential customers can download from the main RL download page is version 3.5.30, and version 3.5.30 (to the best of my knowledge) has no BayesIt option. My understanding - from a huge amount of discussion on this point over the last few weeks - was that we were trying to get a better version of TB on to the RL Web site for users to download - a version that includes BayesIt. Maxim, when you posted the MSI for 3.51, you wrote that if the MSI worked, then you would update the download page and proceed to other fixes. Surely you must have been thinking something similar when you wrote that. Furthermore, you indicated that the only additional change in the 3.51 MSI was some charset issues of the latest 3.5.xx. You did not indicate that you were introducing new charset issues but only fixing issues that presumably had been reported in 3.5.36 (or thereabouts). So, pardon me, but no one could have guessed from what you wrote that this MSI was going to be the beginning of another round of beta testing (preliminary to an official release). Rather, the only thing you asked us to check was whether the MSI worked, which it did (and which I also promptly reported to be the case). The MSI worked, but you did not do what you stated you would do, that is, update the download page... for very good reason. So what happened here? Did RL lose sight of the fact that the beta testers felt some concern about the missing BayesIt in the public version of TB? And why did you present the 3.51 MSI as if it was the end of a beta testing cycle when, as it now seems, it was actually to be the beginning of a new beta testing cycle? -- jaywalker Windows XP Pro SP2 and The Bat! Pro (No OTFE) 3.5.36 Current beta is 3.51.4 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
