Re: SOT - font types Was - adding fonts to editor/viewer preferences

[David van Zuijlekom]

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Hello Dierk,

On Thursday, June 21, 2001 at 13:32:23 +0200, Dierk Haasis [DH] wrote
concerning 'SOT - font types Was -  adding fonts to editor/viewer
preferences':

DH> I prefer Andale Mono for TB!, but with other applications (i.e. Word
DH> or Corel Draw) I find Helvetica (a/k/a Arial or Swiss) or my private
DH> favourite Humanist 521 much better.

Where can I get this font? I mean Andale Mono. It's not included in my
TB! installation. Is it for free or do I have to pay for it?

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 David

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Re: SOT - font types Was - adding fonts to editor/viewer preferences

[Roland Burger]

Hi Günther,

on  Thu,  21  Jun 2001 15:57:16 +0200 GMT (which was 21.06.2001, 15:45
+0100 GMT where I live) Günther Eisele wrote:


> For me, I
> don't see a single reason why I should use fixed fonts, and I don't know
> any other mail client who forces the user to use one (except for the
> telnet clients of course; and I don't know if AK Mail has the ability to
> change to font to the preferred one).

To  write  in Polish language, I need Courier New! It is the only "The
Bat"-font with which I can write in this language!

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Re: SOT - font types Was - adding fonts to editor/viewer preferences

[Dierk Haasis]

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Hello Günther!

On Thursday, June 21, 2001 at 3:45:19 PM you wrote:

> Why exactly can't I do this? I know (I mentioned this before) that it's
> hard for people in this list to accept that other people have other
> preferences when writing/reading mails, but I wonder with how much verve
> people try to defend their opinion and convince other people that their
> opinion is the only one which counts. If I don't use tables, I don't need
> fixed font. If I don't need ascii "art", I don't need fixed font. If I
> don't need justifying (or indenting) I don't need fixed font. For me, I
> don't see a single reason why I should use fixed fonts, and I don't know
> any other mail client who forces the user to use one (except for the
> telnet clients of course; and I don't know if AK Mail has the ability to
> change to font to the preferred one).

You just QED'ed me. what Marck wrote was factually correct. Nothing
else was meant.

Example ASCII "art": You don't like it, OK. But that has nothing to do
with the fact that you can show it correctly only with fixed-pitch
fonts.

Another one? If you want to use tables in plain text e-mail you can
only do it by fixed-pitch fonts, that is a fact. You don't need
tables? Does not change the fact, does it?

Now, here we are again, rolling the discussion I wanted to avoid. I am
not defending an either-or approach, I haven't even made up my mind
about fixed vs. variable. I tend - in the moment - to fixed. But that
was neither mine nor Marck's point. We tried just to state the way it
is and why it is such.

BTW, the *fact* that you don't *need* fixed depends on that you don't
*want* to use certain features that require fixed.

And don't make me do one of my lectures on logic (in the technical
sense) out of it.



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Dierk Haasis
http://www.Write4U.de

PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys

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Re: SOT - font types Was - adding fonts to editor/viewer preferences

[Günther Eisele]

Hei,

Dierk Haasis wrote:

> I prefer Andale Mono for TB!, but with other applications (i.e. Word
> or Corel Draw) I find Helvetica (a/k/a Arial or Swiss) or my private
> favourite Humanist 521 much better.

Of course you do. And why? I wonder why he actually named Arial, which can
be better read _on the screen_ than every Helvetica I saw (which are
normally optimized for print and look much better than Arial there).

> You can't actually say that the arguments given by Marck (I think) for
> fixed-pitch in TB!'s editor have anything to do with personal taste?

Why exactly can't I do this? I know (I mentioned this before) that it's
hard for people in this list to accept that other people have other
preferences when writing/reading mails, but I wonder with how much verve
people try to defend their opinion and convince other people that their
opinion is the only one which counts. If I don't use tables, I don't need
fixed font. If I don't need ascii "art", I don't need fixed font. If I
don't need justifying (or indenting) I don't need fixed font. For me, I
don't see a single reason why I should use fixed fonts, and I don't know
any other mail client who forces the user to use one (except for the
telnet clients of course; and I don't know if AK Mail has the ability to
change to font to the preferred one).

-- 
Regards, Günther
German TB! faq, and cut.exe - delete ads in mails
http://www.guenther-eisele.de/bat/
TheBat! 1.53bis, Windows NT 5.0

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Re: SOT - font types Was - adding fonts to editor/viewer preferences

[Dierk Haasis]

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Hello Günther!

On Thursday, June 21, 2001 at 1:11:23 PM you wrote:

> May I sum up your statement "proportional fonts are bad for reading loads
> of text"?

He did not even imply this. There are fonts that work good for
headlines, others are good for body texts. Some types are very good in
print but desperate on the screen.

In print for long body texts variable-pitch fonts with "Serifen" (can't
find the correct Englisch word now) are much easier to read than
others. On the screen types without "Serifen" are usually better.

As for fixed vs. variable depends more on the font in question than on
philosophy. As long as we are talking readability.

I prefer Andale Mono for TB!, but with other applications (i.e. Word
or Corel Draw) I find Helvetica (a/k/a Arial or Swiss) or my private
favourite Humanist 521 much better.

BTW, I've heard people defend Courier, which is nothing other than a
(bad) imitation of a standard typewriter "font".

> Best solution would be to simply give the user the choice, and if I
> remember right V2 will bring us this choice.

You can't actually say that the arguments given by Marck (I think) for
fixed-pitch in TB!'s editor have anything to do with personal taste?



- --
Dierk Haasis
http://www.Write4U.de

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Re: SOT - font types Was - adding fonts to editor/viewer preferences

[A Curtis Martin]

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On Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:11:23 +0200, Günther wrote these words of wisdom:

...
GE> I always wonder when this discussion comes up that so many people defend
GE> fixed fonts. Have you ever looked in a book or in a newspaper? There's not
GE> a single one which has fixed fonts - simply because proportional fonts are
GE> much better to read.

I thought it was more presentation rather than reading. A variable width
font justifies a lot nicer than a fixed width font and is also is easier
to read when justified. Most newspapers and magazines justify their text.
I'm therefore not surprised that they use variable width fonts.

Fixed width fonts are easier to read in my view. Having to deal with both
sides, that is.

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Re: SOT - font types Was - adding fonts to editor/viewer preferences

[Günther Eisele]

Hei,

Alexander Leschinsky wrote:

ND>> Just out of curiosity, why would a font that makes it easy to read a
ND>> few messages suddenly become hard to read for a lot of messages?

> It's a part of science "typographics" and (partially) - physiology

May I sum up your statement "proportional fonts are bad for reading loads
of text"?

I always wonder when this discussion comes up that so many people defend
fixed fonts. Have you ever looked in a book or in a newspaper? There's not
a single one which has fixed fonts - simply because proportional fonts are
much better to read. This also applies to screen reading, as I can see for
myself when comparing my reading speed in TB! and in Agent. But of course
every individual has it's own preferences - I think 99% of ascii art is as
boring as "standard" signatures - so that's no argument for _me_. Best
solution would be to simply give the user the choice, and if I remember
right V2 will bring us this choice.

-- 
Regards, Günther
German TB! faq, and cut.exe - delete ads in mails
http://www.guenther-eisele.de/bat/
TheBat! 1.53bis, Windows NT 5.0

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Re: SOT - font types Was - adding fonts to editor/viewer preferences

[Nick Danger]

Subject: Sot - Font Types Was -  Adding Fonts To Editor/Viewer Preferences
   From: Alexander Leschinsky
  Dated: Thu, 21 Jun 2001, 04:37:52 (5:37:52 PM local)
~~

Hello Alexander,

ND>> Just out of curiosity, why would a font that makes it easy to read a
ND>> few messages suddenly become hard to read for a lot of messages?

> It's a part of science "typographics" and (partially) - physiology

...and methinks requires a BS degree!

-- 
ò¸ó Nick
 Danger


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