Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Hello Nick, On Sunday, December 30, 2001 at 9:42 PM, a creature mimicking Nick Andriash [NA] wrote: Options |- Editor Preferences |- Auto-wrap NA Doesn't that only affect the Message Editor, and not the viewer Januk, NA or are you saying they are one in the same? Er, it would appear I forgot to finish the message before sending. That setting affects both. Try it and see. ;-) -- Thanks for writing, Januk Aggarwal All science is either physics or stamp collecting. -- E. Rutherford -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
On Sun, 30 Dec 2001 21:42:37 -0800, Nick Andriash [NA] graced us with these comments: ... NA Doesn't that only affect the Message Editor, and not the viewer NA Januk, or are you saying they are one in the same? It would seem so, yes. This is why wrapped lines in the viewer break signature checks when PGP Tray is used. Just as how the editor doesn't use soft returns, the fixed width viewer doesn't either. The RTFV softwraps. -- ©Allie C Martin (_ List Moderator and fellow end user __) TB! v1.54 Beta/20 WinXP Home Ed. PGPKey: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=PGPPubKey1 ¯¯ -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
On Mon, 31 Dec 2001 06:56:39 -0500, Allie C Martin [ACM] wrote these comments: ... ACM The RTFV softwraps. That's the Rich Text Viewer guys, a new feature still in beta. It's been in beta for so long that I forgot that it still is. :-) -- ©Allie C Martin -- List Moderator and fellow end-user PGPKey - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=PGPPubKey1 [MUA: TB! v1.54 Beta/20 (*) OS: WinXP Home] ¯¯ -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
On Sunday, December 30, 2001 2:55:10 AM, Joe Finocchiaro wrote: Gez. It's days just like this that make you want to go guzzle a bottle of scotch and then put a gun in your mouth. Bingo! So that's how you do it! I knew there had to be a way, that TB! was otherwise just too damn good of a program not to allow you to retain the formatting from a cut and pasted blob of text. If I told everyone here what I've been doing, all these many months now, to get around this perceived problem, you'd all laugh, so I'm not going to do it. But suffice it to say, I'm laughing hard enough for everyone else. Thank you, Peter! Thank you, Peter! PS: Yep, Jan's recent words should be inscribed on every Bat! user's tombstone: Is it possible that you are not yet familiar enough with TB! to know how to implement all its options to get what you want? Yeah, very helpful indeed. Perhaps there is someone else on this list with a bit less selfcongratulation who can tell me (and a few other dumb idiots) how to get around this problem. I've also tried the feedback option of TB, but I got no answer to my question. No doubt it is all very trivial, but maybe *someone* will deign to help us poor muddlers. Hey, I even thought that it was the idea of this list to help people with these kinds of problems, but I must have been wrong about that. Peter Smitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.xs4all.nl/~psmitt http://www.fine-art.com/psmitt -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
@ 11:17:47 +0100 [ Sun, 30 Dec 2001], Peter Smitt [PS] wrote these words of wisdom: ... PS Yeah, very helpful indeed. Perhaps there is someone else on this PS list with a bit less selfcongratulation who can tell me (and a few PS other dumb idiots) how to get around this problem What problem? The message editor for TB!? PS I've also tried the feedback option of TB, but I got no answer to PS my question. No doubt it is all very trivial, but maybe *someone* PS will deign to help us poor muddlers. Hey, I even thought that it PS was the idea of this list to help people with these kinds of PS problems, but I must have been wrong about that. With this attitude you're unlikely to get much help here. You're exhibiting an attitude that I haven't encountered for a long time on this list. Your message before this one seemed to be an opinion, rather than a request for assistance. This message was in reply to a message where the author is celebrating having found a solution to a problem which you said in your earlier message didn't really affect you much. IOW's please revise what the problem is. Your insights into the auto-format feature and its limitations are accurate. The TB! editor cannot be made to behave in a way that you wish it to. This is probably why you haven't had a response on this list to your comment. -- ©Allie C Martin (_ List Moderator and fellow end user __) TB! v1.54 Beta/19 WinXP Home Ed. PGPKey: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=PGPPubKey1 ¯¯ -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
On Sunday, December 30, 2001 11:50:32 AM, Allie C Martin wrote: @ 11:17:47 +0100 [ Sun, 30 Dec 2001], Peter Smitt [PS] wrote these words of wisdom: ... PS Yeah, very helpful indeed. Perhaps there is someone else on this PS list with a bit less selfcongratulation who can tell me (and a few PS other dumb idiots) how to get around this problem What problem? The message editor for TB!? PS I've also tried the feedback option of TB, but I got no answer to PS my question. No doubt it is all very trivial, but maybe *someone* PS will deign to help us poor muddlers. Hey, I even thought that it PS was the idea of this list to help people with these kinds of PS problems, but I must have been wrong about that. With this attitude you're unlikely to get much help here. You're exhibiting an attitude that I haven't encountered for a long time on this list. What attitude? I wasn't asking for help, I just sent a message with my ideas about the disadvantages of the editor of TB, and I get a sarcastic reply suggesting that I'm a kind of idiot who can't see how easily this perceived problem can be circumvented. Your message before this one seemed to be an opinion, rather than a request for assistance. That's right, I understood that there was no solution for me, and I gave also the reasons for that. But now I get a comment implying that my problem is more or less imaginary, if I just know how to use all the features of TB. My only comment was that it would be more helpful to say *how* you can circumvent the problem than just snigger about those dumb people who have problems with this feature. This message was in reply to a message where the author is celebrating having found a solution to a problem which you said in your earlier message didn't really affect you much. What problem? The pasting of text in the editor? I said at least that that didn't bother me much, so why then the sarcastic reaction on my mail? That would then be quite beside the point. I thought I missed a solution for my no-wrapping-after-rewriting problem, but now you suggest it is only about pasting text (at least that is what I understand). IOW's please revise what the problem is. What I mentioned in my previous mail, that I have to use alt L continuously when I write a message, while I often make corrections in the text. Your insights into the auto-format feature and its limitations are accurate. The TB! editor cannot be made to behave in a way that you wish it to. This is probably why you haven't had a response on this list to your comment. Neither did I expect a comment, I wasn't asking a question. But then I got a reaction implying that I was so dumb that I couldn't see the solution to my problem. Well, that is not the attitude I expect on this list, and *that* is what I said in my previous message. I'm amazed that you now are criticizing MY attitude in that regard. Peter Smitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.xs4all.nl/~psmitt http://www.fine-art.com/psmitt -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Hi Peter, ACM The TB! editor cannot be made to behave in a way that you wish it ACM to. This is probably why you haven't had a response on this list to ACM your comment. PS Neither did I expect a comment, I wasn't asking a question. But PS then I got a reaction implying that I was so dumb that I couldn't PS see the solution to my problem. Well, that is not the attitude I PS expect on this list, and *that* is what I said in my previous PS message. I'm amazed that you now are criticizing MY attitude in PS that regard. I'm one of these TB! editor fans. I see three solutions to your problem (this is not meant ironically!): - type your mails in a word processor you like (word, ...) and copy/paste into the TB! editor - wait for TB! version 2 - give another mail client a try (becky, ...) Many users new to TB! don't like the editor. But the longer they work with it... ;-) Followup-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], please. -- Best regards, Carsten The Bat! (v1.54 Beta/21) Business Windows NT 5.0 (Build 2195) Service Pack 2, PGP 0xe2d25323 -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Peter, On 30 December 2001 at 13:08:02 [GMT+0100] (which was 12:08 where I live) Peter Smitt wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and made these points: IOW's please revise what the problem is. PS What I mentioned in my previous mail, that I have to use alt L PS continuously when I write a message, while I often make PS corrections in the text. The simpler method is to press Ctrl-Shift-F, type your corrections and press Ctrl-Shift-F again when finished to turn the auto-format back off. This is much more convenient than random Alt-L's. PS Neither did I expect a comment, I wasn't asking a question. But PS then I got a reaction implying that I was so dumb that I couldn't PS see the solution to my problem. moderator If you are reacting to Joe's message - you have misread him. He was not being sarcastic. If you are talking about Allie's message, then he was concerned about this thread deteriorating into another let's all be depressed and knock the thing tirade, which helps nobody. /moderator PS Well, that is not the attitude I expect on this list, Indeed, and not one that we seek to encourage in any way. Please write to me privately about this and we'll see if we can clear up any confusion. PS and *that* is what I said in my previous message. I'm amazed that PS you now are criticizing MY attitude in that regard. In that case, we are clearly in a state of misunderstanding. As I say, write to me off-list and we'll sort it out. - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator ~~~ \ BrainStorm - free thinking - www: http://www.brainstormsw.com / \ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com / · TB! v1.54 Beta/20-14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2 · -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8Lw0eOeQkq5KdzaARAtP3AKDX4dfHlXymCg6+6en8C55I94ECswCgrmNF nY3mA/2YuMM2XVQVsNmKJYc= =+Lua -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
On Sunday, December 30, 2001 1:47:47 PM, Carsten Thönges wrote: I'm one of these TB! editor fans. I see three solutions to your problem (this is not meant ironically!): - type your mails in a word processor you like (word, ...) and copy/paste into the TB! editor Too laborious; perhaps I'd do that if I had to write a very long message, but in practice that never happens. - wait for TB! version 2 I'm looking forward to it! - give another mail client a try (becky, ...) No, I like TB too much (but that doesn't imply that I'm happy with *every* feature of it). Many users new to TB! don't like the editor. But the longer they work with it... ;-) I'm now working with it since June 2000, and I still don't like it. Followup-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], please. Nah, that's all for my part. Peter Smitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.xs4all.nl/~psmitt http://www.fine-art.com/psmitt -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
On Sun, 30 Dec 2001 13:08:02 +0100, Peter Smitt [PS] wrote these comments: ... PS Neither did I expect a comment, I wasn't asking a question. But PS then I got a reaction implying that I was so dumb that I couldn't PS see the solution to my problem. Well, that is not the attitude I PS expect on this list, and *that* is what I said in my previous PS message. I'm amazed that you now are criticizing MY attitude in PS that regard. Aw shucks. I see that there is a misunderstanding underway here that's only creating further misunderstandings and tempers are flaring which is only natural. :-) I'll take this off-list. -- | ©Allie Martin - Moderator o|--- | TB! v1.54 Beta/19 WinXP Home PGPKey - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=PGPPubKey1 ¯¯ -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[2]: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Sunday, December 30, 2001, 6:48:12 AM, you wrote: [...] PS Neither did I expect a comment, I wasn't asking a question. But PS then I got a reaction implying that I was so dumb that I couldn't PS see the solution to my problem. moderator If you are reacting to Joe's message - you have misread him. He was not being sarcasic [...] Nope, I sure wasn't. I was just trying to thank Peter for helping me solve *my* problem, even if he apparently did it unknowingly. I'm sorry if Peter took it the wrong way. *I'm* the guy who was so dumb that he couldn't see the solution to his problem until Peter came along and presented it to him on a platter. I gotta try speaking Greek for a while. This English thing ain't working for me anymore. :( -- Joe Finocchiaro mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
On Sunday, December 30, 2001 3:17:33 PM, Joe Finocchiaro wrote: Nope, I sure wasn't. I was just trying to thank Peter for helping me solve *my* problem, even if he apparently did it unknowingly. I'm sorry if Peter took it the wrong way. *I'm* the guy who was so dumb that he couldn't see the solution to his problem until Peter came along and presented it to him on a platter. Ok, then I've misunderstood you completely. I apologize for accusing you wrongfully. An explanation of my reaction may be that I've sometimes observed in some messages on this list a rather condescending attitude towards people who don't know all the ins and outs of TB, and your reaction seemed to me to fit into that pattern, but it turns out that I was completely wrong on that count. I gotta try speaking Greek for a while. This English thing ain't working for me anymore. Perhaps a bit more extensive use of quoting would've made your meaning more clear? :( ;) Peter Smitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.xs4all.nl/~psmitt http://www.fine-art.com/psmitt -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
On Sunday, December 30, 2001 1:48:12 PM, Marck D Pearlstone wrote: PS What I mentioned in my previous mail, that I have to use alt L PS continuously when I write a message, while I often make PS corrections in the text. The simpler method is to press Ctrl-Shift-F, type your corrections and press Ctrl-Shift-F again when finished to turn the auto-format back off. This is much more convenient than random Alt-L's. Not for me; when I then type just one character in an indented passage or a table or something like that, the whole layout is suddenly destroyed. With Cntrl L you have at least some control over what passages you want to reformat. Peter Smitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.xs4all.nl/~psmitt http://www.fine-art.com/psmitt -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[2]: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Sunday, December 30, 2001, 9:36:00 AM, you wrote: [...] On Sunday, December 30, 2001 3:17:33 PM, Joe Finocchiaro wrote: Nope, I sure wasn't. I was just trying to thank Peter for helping me solve *my* problem, even if he apparently did it unknowingly. I'm sorry if Peter took it the wrong way. *I'm* the guy who was so dumb that he couldn't see the solution to his problem until Peter came along and presented it to him on a platter. Ok, then I've misunderstood you completely. I apologize for accusing you wrongfully. Hey, no problemo. An explanation of my reaction may be that I've sometimes observed in some messages on this list a rather condescending attitude towards people who don't know all the ins and outs of TB, and your reaction seemed to me to fit into that pattern, but it turns out that I was completely wrong on that count. I think the folks on this list are almost always overwhelmingly polite and helpful, especially the old-timers and/or moderators. But just as you misunderstood me, others are often misunderstood. I blame it on the medium. It's much more difficult to communicate clearly via e-mail than it is eyeball to eyeball. Especially when you take into account the international flavor of this list. I gotta try speaking Greek for a while. This English thing ain't working for me anymore. Perhaps a bit more extensive use of quoting would've made your meaning more clear? That probably would only have increased the odds that someone would have misunderstood me - at least in my case. ;) You bet. As we say here in America, no blood, no foul. :) PS: Thanks again for the tip! -- Joe Finocchiaro mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Hello Carsten, On Saturday, December 29, 2001 at 14:49 GMT +0100, a creature mimicking Carsten Thönges [CT] wrote: CT Unfortunately you cannot switch word wrapping (in the viewer) on CT and off :-( Options |- Editor Preferences |- Auto-wrap -- Thanks for writing, Januk Aggarwal I tried relaxing, but...I don't know...I feel more comfortable tense. -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Hello Januk, On Sunday, December 30 2001 at 08:59 PM PDT, you wrote: CT Unfortunately you cannot switch word wrapping (in the viewer) on CT and off :-( Options |- Editor Preferences |- Auto-wrap Doesn't that only affect the Message Editor, and not the viewer Januk, or are you saying they are one in the same? -- Nick -=N.J. Andriash | Courtenay, B.C. Canada=- Win 98SE | PGP 7.1 | Becky v2.00.08 -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Hey fellow BAT users. :) I have a question conerning the word wrapping. Is it normal, that the BAT cannot wrap correctly? Whenever I paste a text, it just keeps on going towards a few meters outside the right side of my monitor - why can it not wrap it? I was told by one of the programmers, that I would have to use some keyboard combination, but that doesn't work out correctly all the time, since I sometimes have certain formatted texts, that lose all their formatting once I do that. Any help on this? Is it THAT hard to create an editor that wraps correctly? Thank you, Sebastian. :) -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello Sebastian, On 29 Dec 2001 at 14:09:53 +0100, Sebastian [S] wrote concerning 'BAT's word wrapping abilities...': ... S Any help on this? Select the lines you want to wrap and press Alt+L. - -- Best regards, David ** (BorgDOS 1.0) C:\Session complete. Assimilate another? Y/N ** [TB! 1.54 Beta/19] [Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2] [Running on a Celeron 800@1176 256 Mb RAM] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt Build 06 Comment: PGPKeys: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=send_PGP_key iQA/AwUBPC2zpFK9yf5+yp9NEQLAjgCg3pdBaOZcpYXLR0+HdJH6LtrOw78An0vq 3w4cm9yIa0Z6l7T0b1hg3Zmh =37Gn -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[2]: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Hello David, Saturday, December 29, 2001, 02:14:22 PM, you wrote: DvZ -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- DvZ Hash: SHA1 DvZ Hello Sebastian, DvZ On 29 Dec 2001 at 14:09:53 +0100, Sebastian [S] wrote concerning DvZ 'BAT's word wrapping abilities...': DvZ ... S Any help on this? DvZ Select the lines you want to wrap and press Alt+L. DvZ - -- DvZ Best regards, DvZ David If I do that though, it just destroys my format. Say I have one line with a header, then two spaces, then a text, and after 2 more spaces a footer - I would have to select 3 times and do alt-l - come on, it's almost 2002, is that all that is possible? Thank you for your help, Sebastian. :) -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello David, On 29 Dec 2001 at 14:14:22 +0100, David van Zuijlekom [DVZ] wrote concerning 'BAT's word wrapping abilities...': S Any help on this? DvZ Select the lines you want to wrap and press Alt+L. Or press CTRL+Shift+Ins (paste formatted). - -- Best regards, David ** Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off now. ** [TB! 1.54 Beta/19] [Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2] [Running on a Celeron 800@1176 256 Mb RAM] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt Build 06 Comment: PGPKeys: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=send_PGP_key iQA/AwUBPC21PlK9yf5+yp9NEQIKugCgjaEfi5/8BXcQQ2h3AMN1ldxTjdYAoPrl WxRw4Scd0PN6fcLI77ntIZvS =0jV4 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[2]: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Hello David, Saturday, December 29, 2001, 02:21:14 PM, you wrote: DvZ -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- DvZ Hash: SHA1 DvZ Hello David, DvZ On 29 Dec 2001 at 14:14:22 +0100, David van Zuijlekom [DVZ] wrote DvZ concerning 'BAT's word wrapping abilities...': S Any help on this? DvZ Select the lines you want to wrap and press Alt+L. DvZ Or press CTRL+Shift+Ins (paste formatted). DvZ - -- DvZ Best regards, DvZ David Thanks David - this works! BUT: what's the reason behind this non-feature? Sebastian. -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello Sebastian, On 29 Dec 2001 at 14:19:27 +0100, Sebastian [S] wrote concerning 'BAT's word wrapping abilities...': ... S If I do that though, it just destroys my format. Say I have one S line with a header, then two spaces, then a text, and after 2 more S spaces a footer - I would have to select 3 times and do alt-l - S come on, it's almost 2002, is that all that is possible? That's TB! and I like it. Unlike OL/OE it is WYSIWYG and you have full control over how you want to format your message. - -- Best regards, David ** You cannot achieve the impossible without attempting the absurd. ** [TB! 1.54 Beta/19] [Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2] [Running on a Celeron 800@1176 256 Mb RAM] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt Build 06 Comment: PGPKeys: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=send_PGP_key iQA/AwUBPC23SFK9yf5+yp9NEQL+PgCfXh+i2N0jFE3812QWv87u19przBoAni0Z FXilxHOvoxeOGJAy0iHCCzoS =CqFn -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Hi Sebastian, On 29 Dec 2001 at 14:19:27 [GMT +0100], you wrote: S If I do that though, it just destroys my format. Say I have one line S with a header, then two spaces, then a text, and after 2 more spaces S a footer - I would have to select 3 times and do alt-l - come on, S it's almost 2002, is that all that is possible? You sound as if you think this is a mistake or incompetence. Let me assure you, it is not; it is a design decision. TB!'s editor is a WYSIWYG editor, in the true sense of the word. You get exactly what you see. If you paste one long line, without hard returns, from another program, it is one long line, nothing more. Or in other words, it's one paragraph. So if you hit ALT-L, TB! reflows the text, so no line is longer than the limit set in the editor preferences. But still it remains one paragraph. What would you expect a program to do with one long line? Read your mind and split it into different paragraphs? Sorry, but I don't know of a program that can do this. -- Regards, Lars The Bat! 1.54 Beta/20 on Windows NT 5.1 Build 2600 |Lars Geiger | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]| -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[2]: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Hello David, Saturday, December 29, 2001, 02:29:56 PM, you wrote: DvZ -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- DvZ Hash: SHA1 DvZ Hello Sebastian, DvZ On 29 Dec 2001 at 14:19:27 +0100, Sebastian [S] wrote concerning DvZ 'BAT's word wrapping abilities...': DvZ ... S If I do that though, it just destroys my format. Say I have one S line with a header, then two spaces, then a text, and after 2 more S spaces a footer - I would have to select 3 times and do alt-l - S come on, it's almost 2002, is that all that is possible? DvZ That's TB! and I like it. Unlike OL/OE it is WYSIWYG and you have full DvZ control over how you want to format your message. DvZ - -- DvZ Best regards, DvZ David Not trying to start arguing but: how is it WYSIWYG when you paste something and it doesn't wrap it automatically? The recipient is not gonna get it like that - he will have it wrapped, so, I don't think this is a helpful control... . Sebastian. -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
On Sat, 29 Dec 2001 14:25:02 +0100, Sebastian [S] graced us with these
comments:
...
S Thanks David - this works!
S BUT: what's the reason behind this non-feature?
A very long story.
It's a give and take thing.
There are features in TB!'s editor that you will not find elsewhere.
Lack of soft window wrapping is a side effect to make these features
possible.
Most editors don't really reformat the text when you paste it. They soft
wrap or virtually wrap it. When TB!'s editor wraps the text, it's
reformatted on the fly.
To illustrate my point, take the same block of text that TB!'s editor
pasted as a long string of text, and paste it in your system text
editor. Now toggle the editor's wrap function on and off. Note that
the text displays as a long string of text when the wrapping is
toggled off. With the wrap function enabled, copy the text from it and
into another editor instance with the wrap toggled off. The text
should appear as a long string of text.
Try the same with TB!'s editor, i.e., paste the text in using
Shift+Ctrl+Ins. This will wrap the text. Now copy and paste this text
into your system text editor and toggle the wrap function on and off.
Note that the text remains wrapped.
This is why I agree with the implementation, that if you wish TB!'s
editor to reformat/reflow the pasted text, that you do this yourself
rather than it be implemented as a default feature.
--
.-,
/, \ ©Allie C Martin
{_}`{} List Moderator and fellow end user
(/ . . \) TB! v1.54 Beta/19 WinXP Home
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¯¯
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Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Sebastian, On 29 December 2001 at 14:09:53 [GMT+0100] (which was 13:09 where I live) Sebastian wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and made these points: S Is it normal, that the BAT cannot wrap correctly? Whenever I paste S a text, it just keeps on going towards a few meters outside the S right side of my monitor - why can it not wrap it? Because it is not supposed to unless you use Paste formatted (Shift-Ctrl-Ins). This is by design. S I was told by one of the programmers, that I would have to use some S keyboard combination, but that doesn't work out correctly all the S time, since I sometimes have certain formatted texts, that lose all S their formatting once I do that. That's why it's not supposed to reformat when pasting normally. S Any help on this? Is it THAT hard to create an editor that wraps S correctly? Clearly you are asking for the impossible here :-). If reforming the text loses the formatting, that's not what you want. If leaving the text as-is makes it the wrong format then it is not pre-formatted as you suggest. It sounds to me as though you have a mixture of formatted and unformatted text in the clipboard and are expecting TB's editor to guess which is which. You have to bear in mind that TB's editor is plain text. It has no concept of soft line breaks. To make a clear delineation between two paragraphs TB must see a clear blank line between them. - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator ~~~ \ BrainStorm - free thinking - www: http://www.brainstormsw.com / \ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com / · TB! v1.54 Beta/20-14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2 · -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) iD8DBQE8Lcf6OeQkq5KdzaARAn3vAJ46KQMrMClbA+ivvSAWB635/HavMACg5lKa AtdGhRgLdVz08fIC7b/246Y= =eJBp -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Hi Sebastian, [ With TB! ... ] S The recipient is not gonna get it like that - he will have it S wrapped, so, I don't think this is a helpful control... . Did you test that? Actually it is The Bat!'s wrapping in the _viewer_ that wraps the lines. Unfortunately you cannot switch word wrapping (in the viewer) on and off :-( You have to change the size of the window instead :-( (wrote a feature request earlier) -- Best regards, Carsten The Bat! (v1.54 Beta/21) Business Windows NT 5.0 (Build 2195) Service Pack 2, PGP 0xe2d25323 -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[2]: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Hello Marck, Saturday, December 29, 2001, 02:41:12 PM, you wrote: MDP -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- MDP Hash: SHA1 MDP Hi Sebastian, MDP On 29 December 2001 at 14:09:53 [GMT+0100] (which was 13:09 where I MDP live) Sebastian wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and made these MDP points: S Is it normal, that the BAT cannot wrap correctly? Whenever I paste S a text, it just keeps on going towards a few meters outside the S right side of my monitor - why can it not wrap it? MDP Because it is not supposed to unless you use Paste formatted MDP (Shift-Ctrl-Ins). This is by design. S I was told by one of the programmers, that I would have to use some S keyboard combination, but that doesn't work out correctly all the S time, since I sometimes have certain formatted texts, that lose all S their formatting once I do that. MDP That's why it's not supposed to reformat when pasting normally. S Any help on this? Is it THAT hard to create an editor that wraps S correctly? MDP Clearly you are asking for the impossible here :-). MDP If reforming the text loses the formatting, that's not what you want. MDP If leaving the text as-is makes it the wrong format then it is not MDP pre-formatted as you suggest. MDP It sounds to me as though you have a mixture of formatted and MDP unformatted text in the clipboard and are expecting TB's editor to MDP guess which is which. MDP You have to bear in mind that TB's editor is plain text. It has no MDP concept of soft line breaks. To make a clear delineation between two MDP paragraphs TB must see a clear blank line between them. Alright, I understand and I guess I can agree to some extent. BUT: why for example do I get wrapping problems if I type text, then go back to a line and insert say 3 words - the whole line gets moved but NOT wrapped - is that supposed to be like that, and if so, why? Thank you, Sebastian. :) -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello Sebastian, On 29 Dec 2001 at 14:34:24 +0100, Sebastian [S] wrote concerning 'BAT's word wrapping abilities...': ... S Not trying to start arguing but: how is it WYSIWYG when you paste S something and it doesn't wrap it automatically? The recipient is S not gonna get it like that - he will have it wrapped, so, I don't S think this is a helpful control... . That's not true. Unlike OL/OE TB! doesn't wrap the text at sending a message. The message is send _exactly_ the way you created it. If the recipient doesn't have wrapping enabled he receives the message exactly the way it was send. - -- Best regards, David ** Computer Store: Out for a quick byte ** [TB! 1.54 Beta/19] [Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2] [Running on a Celeron 800@1176 256 Mb RAM] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt Build 06 Comment: PGPKeys: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=send_PGP_key iQA/AwUBPC29E1K9yf5+yp9NEQKFpACdFVdkdmJSZABlquBn80TopILkxSIAoJdJ Lj+0xr/pOu6tiWMq5BGI7Apm =zgxa -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Sebastian, On 29 December 2001 at 14:51:44 [GMT+0100] (which was 13:51 where I live) Sebastian wrote to Marck D Pearlstone and made these points: S Alright, I understand and I guess I can agree to some extent. BUT: S why for example do I get wrapping problems if I type text, then go S back to a line and insert say 3 words - the whole line gets moved S but NOT wrapped - is that supposed to be like that, and if so, why? It is an option of the editor preferences called Auto Format to re-wrap on-the-fly. You have to use it with care because of what I said previously about paragraphs. Two consecutive paragraphs will get wrapped together if there is no intervening blank line. You can use Ctrl-Shift-F to toggle auto-format on and off as you type. That's how I use it, turning it on when I need it and off for writing bullet point lists and the like. - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator ~~~ \ BrainStorm - free thinking - www: http://www.brainstormsw.com / \ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com / · TB! v1.54 Beta/20-14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2 · -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) iD8DBQE8Lc6xOeQkq5KdzaARAqrZAKCyoPAZjSei425YEnPR3QNsopO3fgCgpq/w 7XZIj+DiVBN4LbtrboXjp+A= =Jd4B -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
On Sat, 29 Dec 2001 at 08:35 GMT -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Allie] wrote to [EMAIL PROTECTED] re: 'BAT's word wrapping abilities...' in respose to Sebastion's comments: ,- [Sebastian wrote] | Is it normal, that the BAT cannot wrap correctly? Whenever I | paste a text, it just keeps on going towards a few meters | outside the right side of my monitor - why can it not wrap | it? [...] | | Any help on this? Is it THAT hard to create an editor that | wraps correctly? '- ,- [and later] | what's the reason behind this non-feature? '- Allie I agree with the implementation, that if you wish Allie TB!'s editor to reformat/reflow the pasted text, that Allie you do this yourself rather than it be implemented as Allie a default feature. IMHO, the fewer hard wired default features in a product the better. This allows everyone to do their own thing. But to avoid this being a total 'me, too' comment, take a look @ the recursive QTs that Januk Carsten created. The first one, written by Carsten, takes clipboard copy places it *as is* within the boxed format you see below. ,- [Example copied text w varying formats] | List item 1 | List item 2 | List item 3 | List item 4 | | List item 5 | | List item List item List item List item List item List item List item List item List |item List item List item List item List item List item List item '- The 2nd QT, written by Januk, takes clipboard content, wraps it across multiple paragraphs instead of 'forcing' :-) the user to use ALT-L or one of the varied keyboard combinations that, in gen'l, aren't really intuitive IMO. Lastly, linking the two QTs together as I've done (w lots of help) wraps clipboard text places it within the brackets as you see @ the top of this msg. (However, the TB! editor rule applies, i.e. a blank line must exist between paragraphs) So you see, everyone can have it their own way within TB!, IMO one of the hallmarks of the program it's programmers. The quoting process I describe is quite simple with the QT tools already in the archives if it is of interest to you, I will post it privately to you or on the list -- whichever is preferred by the moderators. -- Jan Rifkinson Ridgefield, CT USA TB! V1.54 Beta/18/W2K_SP2/PGP Key ID: 0x3F14A060 -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Hello Sebastian, S If I do that though, it just destroys my format. Say I have one S line with a header, then two spaces, then a text, and after 2 more S spaces a footer - I would have to select 3 times and do alt-l - S come on, it's almost 2002, is that all that is possible? Yes, that's what we get in 2002 with The Bat! Sad but true :-( The editor in TB is rather disatrous in many respects, but what some people, including myself, consider as poor design is generally seen as brillant by the members of this list, particularly those who like to design pretty little tables and indulge in useless ASCII art. Go figure... I am afraid we'll have to live with that weird editor until such time as TB's developpers are struck by common sense. Fortunately TB has many redeeming features is is overall the best e-mail client around (with Becky a close second). I use TB in spite of its editor, not because of it. Cheers, Rémi Pach --- Rémi Charles Pach Translation / Localization (English to French) Tel. / fax : +27 11 704 2266 E-fax (US) : +1 509 356-1214 E-fax (UK) : +44 (0) 870-124-4530 http://www.abc-translations.net --- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[2]: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Saturday, December 29, 2001, 3:53:46 PM, you wrote: RP Hello Sebastian, S If I do that though, it just destroys my format. Say I have one S line with a header, then two spaces, then a text, and after 2 more S spaces a footer - I would have to select 3 times and do alt-l - S come on, it's almost 2002, is that all that is possible? RP Yes, that's what we get in 2002 with The Bat! Sad but true :-( RP The editor in TB is rather disatrous in many respects, but what some RP people, including myself, consider as poor design is generally seen as RP brillant by the members of this list, particularly those who like to RP design pretty little tables and indulge in useless ASCII art. Go RP figure... RP Cheers, RP Rmi Pach I can't help wondering if the programmers are indulging the nerd, sorry, expert, users at the expense of the rest of us in this 'feature'. Agent, for example, seems to do this simple task without the need for weird key combinations every time you paste stuff in or go back and add to or delete an existing bit of text. It's the one thing that stops me recommending The Bat to friends who are accustomed to the ease of use of more run of the mill mail programs. My suggestion would be a configurable option so that the editor can behave either way - this would satisfy both camps. The auto-wrap feature as it stands is just not good enough, imho. John Rainer -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[3]: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
JR I can't help wondering if the programmers are indulging the nerd, JR sorry, expert, users at the expense of the rest of us in this JR 'feature'. Agent, for example, seems to do this simple task without JR the need for weird key combinations every time you paste stuff in or JR go back and add to or delete an existing bit of text. It's the one JR thing that stops me recommending The Bat to friends who are accustomed JR to the ease of use of more run of the mill mail programs. JR My suggestion would be a configurable option so that the editor can JR behave either way - this would satisfy both camps. The auto-wrap JR feature as it stands is just not good enough, imho. JR John Rainer Wow, I thought everyone is all in love with the way BAT handles things. I must say that I am not happy with the way many things are handled. I am a BAT fan, which comes from the fact that Outlook sucks really badly, and that I just like the fact that this tool is so incredibly fast and loaded with functionality. BUT: I think there is a point when things start to be a little bad, for example this wrapping thing. Next thing I really cannot stand is the fact that the programmers spell Microsoft with a Dollar sign - I know, this shouldn't be a problem, but come on: almost EVERYONE here uses Windows, and XP really is an excellent OS - so much for that. Problem is further, that they REFUSE to give the option of using internet explorer's dll to show HTML content - are we back in stone age? I just want the OPTION, I don't want it to be a preset, just an OPTION - like John said, both camps can be satisfied if the programmers wouldn't be so concentrated on the technical camp. I do not want to offend anyone by this, please don't feel like I don't like BAT, I love it, it's just that there are certain things I totally disagree with - hope everyone understands this. Sebastian. -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[3]: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
On 29 December 2001 at 4:22 pm John wrote: I can't help wondering if the programmers are indulging the nerd, sorry, expert, users at the expense of the rest of us in this 'feature'. Agent, for example, seems to do this simple task without the need for weird key combinations every time you paste stuff in or go back and add to or delete an existing bit of text. It's the one thing that stops me recommending The Bat to friends who are accustomed to the ease of use of more run of the mill mail programs. My suggestion would be a configurable option so that the editor can behave either way - this would satisfy both camps. The auto-wrap feature as it stands is just not good enough, imho. Agreed - it has a large number of options, but life is just too short to explore them all and their interactions with one another. I have editor settings I'm happy with, but I couldn't explain how I got to those settings (probably trial and error in the past). Like many facilities in TB! beginner and expert approaches would be useful although hard work to implement; the program is phenomenally powerful but all of that power is (potentially) exposed no matter who the user is. Alastair -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello Sebastian, On 29 Dec 2001 at 17:32:22 +0100, Sebastian [S] wrote concerning 'BAT's word wrapping abilities...': ... S Problem is further, that they REFUSE to give the option of using S internet explorer's dll to show HTML content - are we back in stone S age? I just want the OPTION, I don't want it to be a preset, just S an OPTION - like John said, both camps can be satisfied if the S programmers wouldn't be so concentrated on the technical camp. That's because of the great security risks it brings. I don't get why it is so hard for some people to just double-click on an attachment to open it in your default browser. - -- Best regards, David ** If it jams, force it. If it breaks, it needed replacing. ** [TB! 1.54 Beta/19] [Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 2] [Running on a Celeron 800@1176 256 Mb RAM] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt Build 06 Comment: PGPKeys: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=send_PGP_key iQA/AwUBPC3ng1K9yf5+yp9NEQLddgCcC3ypYbhTJGQ/9bzzVl/LBF1/ojEAoNP2 fKb3gXdFH+o3uu/CLUiNIYM7 =wSRu -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 29 Dec 2001 17:53:46 +0200GMT (which was 16:53 +0100GMT where I live), Rémi Pach thought about BAT's word wrapping abilities... and wrote: RP The editor in TB is rather disatrous in many respects, but what some RP people, including myself, consider as poor design is generally seen as RP brillant by the members of this list, Yes, Rémi, people are indeed different. RP ... indulge in useless ASCII art. You name it, it is art. Has any kind of art ever been _useful_ except for fun and pleasure? ;-) Replies on TBOT please. - -- Cheers Peter (,_,_,_,) /|\`-._( )_.-'/|\ / | \`'-/ \-'`/ | \ / |_.'-.\ /.-'._| \ /_.-'`-._\ _ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) Comment: GnuPG for better authentication. Key-ID: 0xE10774CE iD8DBQE8LfTgAzZSBuEHdM4RAgVzAJ4k1jYMR+fl1WPdsfGqQRn7FLfRLACg9CZg dbbBCmvGchwP72/AMYos8X8= =6n+M -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Hello Sebastian. At 11:32 AM on Saturday, December 29, 2001 you wrote the following on the posted subject 'BAT's word wrapping abilities...': Sebastian [...] I am not happy with the way many things are Sebastian handled. I am a BAT fan, which comes from the Sebastian fact that Outlook sucks really badly, and that I Sebastian just like the fact that this tool is so Sebastian incredibly fast and loaded with functionality. Sebastian BUT: I think there is a point when things start Sebastian to be a little bad, for example this wrapping Sebastian thing. [...] Did you read my post explaining a really easy way for everyone who thinks this is a problem to solve the problem? Not to be argumentative but I'd hate to think I wasted my time offering a solution to the problem you continue to harp on. The option exists but its not a button or a checkmark. -- Jan Rifkinson Ridgefield, CT USA TB! V1.54 Beta/18/W2K_SP2/PGP Key ID: 0x3F14A060 -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[2]: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
JR Did you read my post explaining a really easy way for JR everyone who thinks this is a problem to solve the JR problem? JR Not to be argumentative but I'd hate to think I wasted my JR time offering a solution to the problem you continue to JR harp on. JR The option exists but its not a button or a checkmark. Hi Jan - sorry, you have NOT wasted your time. I was just listing a few things I had problems with, and that was one of them. I am trying to get used to the ways the wrapping thing works by now, and I really appreciate the time and effort you put into this. I was not trying to overlook what you wrote, it just really need time to get used to this. ;) Thank you very much, Sebastian. -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
@ 16:22:33 + [ Sat, 29 Dec 2001], John Rainer [JR] contributed this to our collective wisdom: ... JR I can't help wondering if the programmers are indulging the nerd, JR sorry, expert, users at the expense of the rest of us in this JR 'feature'. Ask Nick Andriash about this and stay tuned for the upcoming release. What you're wondering is simply NOT true -- ©Allie C Martin (_ List Moderator and fellow end user __) TB! v1.54 Beta/19 WinXP Home Ed. PGPKey: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=PGPPubKey1 ¯¯ -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Hello Sebastian. At 12:26 PM on Saturday, December 29, 2001 you wrote the following on the posted subject 'BAT's word wrapping abilities...': Sebastian I am trying to get used to the ways the wrapping Sebastian thing works [...] now just really need time to Sebastian get used to this. ;) For sure. And when you think you've figured it out, you'll learn something new. You can make it as simple or as complicated as you want. The choices make for a real trip. :-) Believe me, no apology necessary. I've been using TB! for a while still learn new things every day. This list is the most supportive I've ever experienced. No question is too simple, ridiculed or ignored. Over months, so many people have helped me get my arms around TB!. And I still have questions. In that spirit I just wanted you to know that there was a simple, albeit techie, way to get what you wanted -- created by some extremely smart Bat_Folk. I'll send them to you privately so you can play with it. -- Jan Rifkinson Ridgefield, CT USA TB! V1.54 Beta/18/W2K_SP2/PGP Key ID: 0x3F14A060 -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
On Sat, 29 Dec 2001 17:53:46 +0200, Rémi Pach [RP] graced us with
these comments:
...
RP Yes, that's what we get in 2002 with The Bat! Sad but true :-(
RP The editor in TB is rather disatrous in many respects, but what
RP some people, including myself, consider as poor design is
RP generally seen as brillant by the members of this list,
RP particularly those who like to design pretty little tables and
RP indulge in useless ASCII art. Go figure...
There's more to TB!'s editor and its design than the advantages it
offers to create tables and view ASCII art. Your attitude towards this
whole thing is rather unaccommodating it would appear, and I think I'd
be really wasting my time to expand on this in a detailed fashion.
There are a lot of messages in the archive that deal with some of the
advantages anyway. With some explanation of what the editor will do
for you that others will not, I'm sure that you'd agree that the
editor is just different, that it has a useful design with drawbacks
that you cannot tolerate (no problem there), while the editors that
you're accustomed to have drawbacks that I and others can't tolerate.
TB!'s editor is NOT a disaster in design. It's just different and it's
really not a good thing to think something is trash or poorly designed
because it's different. Consider the fact that on many occasions, I
use TB!'s editor to edit text that's not intended for e-mail, just so
that I can use some of its features that aren't available in other
editors that I use. I'm not creating tables or ASCII art when I do
this. I also use PowerPro based macros that allow me to use TB!'s
editor with Forte' Agent, my news reader. It's TB! editor features
that allow me to be able to create those macros in the first place.
RP I am afraid we'll have to live with that weird editor until such
RP time as TB's developpers are struck by common sense.
I do hope that they'll either include an alternate editor or integrate
options in the current one that will produce standard behaviour and
its attendant limitations so that those who wish to use it can (it
would appear that the former approach is the planned one as with the
viewer approach). But I do hope that the editor will always maintain
its present functionality that is highly suited to *properly*
formatted plain text messaging.
RP Fortunately TB has many redeeming features is is overall the best
RP e-mail client around (with Becky a close second). I use TB in
RP spite of its editor, not because of it.
The editor is one of the main reasons why I use it. It's one of the
unique things about TB! that makes it different from the others. It's
really nice to find something that's different and that has a
different approach with its attendant advantages.
--
.-,
/, \ ©Allie C Martin
{_}`{} List Moderator and fellow end user
(/ . . \) TB! v1.54 Beta/19 WinXP Home
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Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
On Sat, 29 Dec 2001 16:22:33 +, John Rainer [JR] graced us with these comments: ... JR I can't help wondering if the programmers are indulging the nerd, JR sorry, expert, users at the expense of the rest of us in this JR 'feature'. I didn't comment accurately on this in my other message. My last message was a response to your comment in a broad sense (take out the 'in this feature' part) and not specifically with regards to the editor. AFAIK, a new editor is under development. It's easier for them to develop a new editor with standard features than make the present one have options for standard behaviour. This is why it has taken so long for them to address the issue. -- ©Allie C Martin (_ List Moderator and fellow end user __) TB! v1.54 Beta/19 WinXP Home Ed. PGPKey: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=PGPPubKey1 ¯¯ -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Hello Alastair! On 29 Dec 2001 at 17:41:45 you wrote: Like many facilities in TB! beginner and expert approaches would be useful although hard work to implement; the program is phenomenally powerful but all of that power is (potentially) exposed no matter who the user is. Just so I don't come over as a misanthrope: This is one very good comment, and a feature request I would second! This is not just I don't like it, Why can't you do it like others. But useful and constructive. Thank you, Alastair! -- Dierk Haasis http://www.Write4U.de http://Interest.Write4U.de/pongo PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys The Bat 1.54 Beta/20 on Windows 95 4.0 67306684 C Education has produced a vast population able to read but unable to distinguish what is worth reading. (G.M. Trevelyan) -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[2]: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Hello Peter, PM You name it, it is art. Has any kind of art ever been _useful_ except PM for fun and pleasure? ;-) PM(,_,_,_,) PM/|\`-._( )_.-'/|\ PM / | \`'-/ \-'`/ | \ PM / |_.'-.\ /.-'._| \ PM /_.-'`-._\ I use e-mail to write messages, not to create little bats with ASCII characters, like you. It's nice but it's totally irrelevant to the discussion on this inadequate TB editor. PM Replies on TBOT please. No idea what that is, sorry. Cheers, Rémi Pach -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Hello Sebastian! On 29 Dec 2001 at 17:32:22 you wrote: I am a BAT fan, which comes from the fact that Outlook sucks really badly, and that I just like the fact that this tool is so incredibly fast and loaded with functionality. Funny, I am a TB! fan because of the programme itself. I don't need comparatives for my life. Remember: The good is always the fiend of the better. (For our German speaking friends: Das Gute ist der Feind des Besseren.) Think about it. BUT: I think there is a point when things start to be a little bad, for example this wrapping thing. You are just a little lazy of thinking. If you know what you want you can do it with TB!'s editor. I may just take a few seconds longer, BUT IS IN YOUR CONTROL (Sorry for shouting, but I wanted this to be heard by some members). Next thing I really cannot stand is the fact that the programmers spell Microsoft with a Dollar sign - I know, this shouldn't be a problem, but come on: almost EVERYONE here uses Windows, and XP really is an excellent OS - so much for that. I won't argue about the OS part. But, how long are you in the Internet? And I don't mean WWW. I am not quite a fan of this (stupid) way to mark MS off as a dollar producing company - it's what everybody likes to dream of. But come on, if that already annoys you that much, you should look out for a life. Problem is further, that they REFUSE to give the option of using internet explorer's dll to show HTML content - are we back in stone age? I just want the OPTION, I don't want it to be a preset, just an OPTION - like John said, both camps can be satisfied if the programmers wouldn't be so concentrated on the technical camp. Tried double-clicking the HTML attachment? That's why I like the attachment to be seen, I can just open it with Opera. I do not want to offend anyone by this, please don't feel like I don't like BAT, I love it, it's just that there are certain things I totally disagree with - hope everyone understands this. There are certain things in life I disagree with ... -- Dierk Haasis http://www.Write4U.de http://Interest.Write4U.de/pongo PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys The Bat 1.54 Beta/20 on Windows 95 4.0 67306684 C The fox has many tricks, and the hedgehog only one, but that is the best of all. (Desiderius Erasmus) -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[2]: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Hello Jan, Not to be argumentative but I'd hate to think I wasted my time offering a solution to the problem you continue to harp on. A most arrogant reply to someone who simply wants a solution to a real problem. And no, your solution is not a solution at all and a bad editor remains a bad editor, regardless of the amount of sophistry deployed by you and other free caret fans. Rémi Pach -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[2]: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Hello Dierk, this is the third time you fling something in the face of other users that is not to be seen in such a place. Sorry, I though this was a mailing list where people were free to discuss the pros and cons of a particular piece of software. Rémi Pach -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[4]: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Saturday, December 29, 2001, 10:41:45 AM, you wrote: [...] I have editor settings I'm happy with, but I couldn't explain how I got to those settings (probably trial and error in the past). [...] Alastair Alistair, you took the words right out of my mouth. Not only can't I explain it, I have no idea how I got there. I think John Walker, that American Taliban guy, said it first. :) -- Joe Finocchiaro mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Hello Rémi! On 29 Dec 2001 at 16:53:46 you wrote: The editor in TB is rather disatrous in many respects, but what some people, including myself, consider as poor design is generally seen as brillant by the members of this list, particularly those who like to design pretty little tables and indulge in useless ASCII art. Go figure... Please, we had that. For short: If a feature I have to use a lot is disastrous I don't bore others with it, but gon on to another programme. To dwell on my personal history, I started out with AOL, then got around to Eudora light, Eudora, Free Agent (no usable e-mail function) and ended up with TB!. I had to use OE two or three times on the job. I also know Netscape's e-mail client. All in all TB! (especially its editor, although I don't use much tables/ASCII art) still comes out a winner. BTW, what I'd really like is another tone in our discussion. One can discuss much better - particularly with e-mail - when we don't use so much polemics and implications of others are stupid like you do. We did have this topic some weeks back. And I assure you that I am of the more generous kind, but this is the third time you fling something in the face of other users that is not to be seen in such a place. -- Dierk Haasis http://www.Write4U.de http://Interest.Write4U.de/pongo PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys The Bat 1.54 Beta/20 on Windows 95 4.0 67306684 C Lover's happiness: As long as I have you, I can endure all the troubles you inevitably bring. (Ashleigh Brilliant/Derek Leveret) -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 29 Dec 2001 20:22:52 +0200GMT (which was 19:22 +0100GMT where I live), Rémi Pach thought about BAT's word wrapping abilities... and wrote: RP I use e-mail to write messages, not to create little bats with ASCII RP characters, like you. It's nice but it's totally irrelevant to the RP discussion on this inadequate TB editor. Yes, it is. That's why I pointed to TBOT. RP No idea what that is, sorry. No problem. It is the mailing list for off-topic discussions like ascii art. :o) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - -- Cheers Peter Who the hell is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard disk? _ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) Comment: GnuPG for better authentication. Key-ID: 0xE10774CE iD8DBQE8Lg6KAzZSBuEHdM4RAh2IAKCqEN5y/t9JHpBcCdJR5o5GcM/RzACgsZPY SkBQUP4pwGfD2ilVieOXXA0= =hlYB -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Hello John! On 29 Dec 2001 at 17:22:33 you wrote: I can't help wondering if the programmers are indulging the nerd, sorry, expert, users at the expense of the rest of us in this 'feature'. Is nerd or expert the operative here? And which do *you* consider the more insulting? My suggestion would be a configurable option so that the editor can behave either way - this would satisfy both camps. The auto-wrap feature as it stands is just not good enough, imho. RITLabs told us that version 2 will have a new editor and perhaps make use of external editors. Then you could even use Word (BTW, who the heck wrote he creates HTML pages with it?). -- Dierk Haasis http://www.Write4U.de http://Interest.Write4U.de/pongo PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys The Bat 1.54 Beta/20 on Windows 95 4.0 67306684 C All our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike - and yet it is the most precious thing we have. (Albert Einstein) -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 29 Dec 2001 20:29:35 +0200, Rémi Pach [RP] graced us with these comments: ... Not to be argumentative but I'd hate to think I wasted my time offering a solution to the problem you continue to harp on. RP A most arrogant reply to someone who simply wants a solution to a RP real problem. RP And no, your solution is not a solution at all and a bad editor RP remains a bad editor, regardless of the amount of sophistry RP deployed by you and other free caret fans. At this point I must declare this thread closed. I think that all opinions have been expressed by most who cared to (sorry for those guys who may be in another time zone and sleeping their way through this one). Things are becoming argumentative and we don't wish for this to degenerate into a flame war or bickering about each others behaviour. So, please!! no more on this thread. Thank you!! - -- | ©Allie Martin - Moderator o|--- | TB! v1.54 Beta/19 WinXP Home PGPKey - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=PGPPubKey1 ¯¯ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt (Build/06) iQA/AwUBPC4Oe1fJ62ArBxfiEQJO2QCgk0wmihPoC2jUwgfNFotm4sIpSRgAoOs6 AI9FMjIWnOzGIaupIaGL37SP =ahSE -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 In a message dated, Sat, 29 Dec 2001 19:05:58 +0100, Dierk Haasis [DH] wrote: ... DH I won't argue about the OS part. But, how long are you in the DH Internet? And I don't mean WWW. I am not quite a fan of this DH (stupid) way to mark MS off as a dollar producing company - it's DH what everybody likes to dream of. But come on, if that already DH annoys you that much, you should look out for a life. moderator Please. Let's close this here. No more on this thread on list. Please take your responses off-list or to TBOT. Thanks. /moderator - -- | ©Allie Martin - Moderator o|--- | TB! v1.54 Beta/19 WinXP Home PGPKey - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=PGPPubKey1 ¯¯ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt (Build/06) iQA/AwUBPC4PI1fJ62ArBxfiEQLK1gCgjR4GxLct9LsydaVXHEFX/0BHteQAoKQs IRZkArX/c7OzC9mwOIS+pFSO =cB2y -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[2]: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Saturday, December 29, 2001, 11:58:24 AM, you wrote: [...] RITLabs told us that version 2 will have a new editor and perhaps make use of external editors. [...] And the very early voting returns are: For: 1 Against: 0 -- Joe Finocchiaro mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Hello Rémi! On 29 Dec 2001 at 19:37:42 you wrote: Sorry, I though this was a mailing list where people were free to discuss the pros and cons of a particular piece of software. ((... another one out of context.)) Yes, you are right and I will always defend this. Read what I've written and you will see that - again - it was the tone I didn't like. I am neither nerd nor anything other you implied. The funny part here is that I know from our private conversation that you are an agreeable, conversant and intelligent person. Since Allie closed this thread *and* I definitely wasn't as nice as I usually try to be, I apologize to all for any insult or time wasted on my part. -- Dierk Haasis http://www.Write4U.de http://Interest.Write4U.de/pongo PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys The Bat 1.54 Beta/20 on Windows 95 4.0 67306684 C Sooner or later the graveyards are full of everybody. (Terry Pratchett) -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[3]: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
RP Hello Dierk, this is the third time you fling something in the face of other users that is not to be seen in such a place. RP Sorry, I though this was a mailing list where people were free to RP discuss the pros and cons of a particular piece of software. RP Rémi Pach I think everyone should have the right for their opinion, and I thank Rémi for showing me that there is not just me who has some problems with the BAT. This thread may be closed now, but maybe we can all be happy with version 2 - whenever it is done... . Thank you all for your replies and your help, Sebastian. :) -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[3]: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
On Saturday, December 29, 2001 , Joe Finocchiaro wrote the following in regards to: [BAT's word wrapping abilities...] . JF Saturday, December 29, 2001, 11:58:24 AM, you wrote: JF [...] RITLabs told us that version 2 will have a new editor and perhaps make use of external editors. JF [...] JF And the very early voting returns are: JF For: 1 JF Against: 0 Against: 1 We want blood! It's always funny to watch FANATICS talk past each others. . [EMAIL PROTECTED] +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ REAL PROBLEMS / REAL SOLUTION ISSN: 1492-7829 Technical information on Windows and networking http://www.911networks.com Copyright 1999-2001 by 911networks.com - All Rights Reserved +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Hello Rémi. At 1:37 PM on Saturday, December 29, 2001 you wrote the following on the posted subject 'BAT's word wrapping abilities...': Rémi Sorry, I though this was a mailing list where people Rémi were free to discuss the pros and cons of a particular Rémi piece of software. I've found that list members *are* free to discuss the pros cons of TB! on this other TB! list(s) because good discussion can help make the program better but its a matter of tone perhaps some common courtesy as well, that have caused some consternation here. If you were visiting in someone's home I don't think you would say I think the architecture is useless your taste in furniture decor is a disaster. That's what it sounds like when you say things like: ,- [Rémi] | The editor in TB is rather disatrous in many respects, but | what some people, including myself, consider as poor design | is generally seen as brillant by the members of this list, | particularly those who like to design pretty little tables | and indulge in useless ASCII art. '- and statements like the following in response to my comments which weren't even addressed to you: ,- [Rémi] | A most arrogant reply to someone who simply wants a solution | to a real problem. | | And no, your solution is not a solution at all and a bad | editor remains a bad editor, regardless of the amount of | sophistry deployed by you and other free caret fans. '- and ,- [Rémi] | I use e-mail to write messages, not to create little bats | with ASCII characters, like you. It's nice but it's totally | irrelevant to the discussion on this inadequate TB editor. '- Perhaps you should consider the possibility that your statements to this list thus far exude the arrogance you abhor. Consider how rude I might be considered if I began to correct your syntax spelling errors even though there is an excellent spell checker in this program. Is it possible that you are not yet familiar enough with TB! to know how to implement all its options to get what you want? Is it possible that you simply have a healthy difference of opinion but haven't mastered a style in which to express it in a constructive way? In the meantime, if you have a question, I'm sure most people here would be happy to help you find an answer. I won't continue this dialogue any longer so you can have the last word, Rémi. However, I hope you will take a moment to think about what I've said in the positive spirit in which it was meant. -- Jan Rifkinson Ridgefield, CT USA TB! V1.54 Beta/18/W2K_SP2/PGP Key ID: 0x3F14A060 -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[4]: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Saturday, December 29, 2001, 1:40:18 PM, you wrote: On Saturday, December 29, 2001 , Joe Finocchiaro wrote the following in regards to: [BAT's word wrapping abilities...] JF Saturday, December 29, 2001, 11:58:24 AM, you wrote: JF [...] RITLabs told us that version 2 will have a new editor and perhaps make use of external editors. JF [...] JF And the very early voting returns are: JF For: 1 JF Against: 0 Against: 1 We want blood! I hear that the Red Cross has a sale on pre-owned O-negative blood this week, friend. But only two pints to a customer. Drink up! It's always funny to watch FANATICS talk past each others. Some really old guy once said (paraphrasing) that fanaticism was redoubling your efforts when you've forgotten your aim. I know exactly what I want, and I aim to get it -- one way or the other. PS: Fortunately, I'm a very patient man. -- Joe Finocchiaro mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[2]: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Saturday, December 29, 2001, 5:58:24 PM, you wrote: DH Hello John! DH On 29 Dec 2001 at 17:22:33 you wrote: I can't help wondering if the programmers are indulging the nerd, sorry, expert, users at the expense of the rest of us in this 'feature'. DH Is nerd or expert the operative here? And which do *you* consider DH the more insulting? As someone who considers himself to be a bit of a computer nerd, I don't find either term insulting, nor was any insult intended - they tend to be interchangeable descriptions as far as experienced PC users go! My attempted, but apparently failed, humorous point was that either term describes people who tend to get more wrapped up in the details of something and how it works than how easy it is to actually use by the rest of the world. If a word processor behaved like this for the staff at my office, they would be banging on my door demanding my blood! We actually have a copy of The Bat at work for a specialist task and no-one else but me will use it. I'm not knocking the feature itself - as a long term Bat user I know what it can do, but for me it is just plain irritating in day to day use - I just there was a switch to make it behave in a more conventional fashion and keep everyone happy. John Rainer -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[2]: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Saturday, December 29, 2001, 1:43:41 PM, you wrote: [...] Is it possible that you are not yet familiar enough with TB! to know how to implement all its options to get what you want? [...] Boy, those words could pass for the epitaph on every Bat! user's tombstone, eh? :) -- Joe Finocchiaro mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
DEAD HORSE (was Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Jan, On 29 December 2001 at 14:43:41 [GMT-0500] (which was 19:43 where I live) Jan Rifkinson wrote to Rémi Pach and made these points: Rémi Sorry, I though this was a mailing list where people were free Rémi to discuss the pros and cons of a particular piece of software. snip JR In the meantime, if you have a question, I'm sure most people JR here would be happy to help you find an answer. moderator *THAT* is the point of this list. Although everyone has a right to an opinion, this list is not the forum. Please use TBOT or TBBETA for such things. This list is a primary point of support for new and old users alike, a safe place to exchange ways to get the best out a great piece of email software. This thread has been closed twice already. This is the last time. Please do not reply to this list any more on this topic. /moderator - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator ~~~ \ BrainStorm - free thinking - www: http://www.brainstormsw.com / \ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com / · TB! v1.54 Beta/20-14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2 · -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) iD8DBQE8LikSOeQkq5KdzaARAhYSAJ4oQL1LkyQND3oFLj6V7LXuc9WXxwCfQIue H6/HkmSNnXYzTTOtL3Y0HDk= =e1uG -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
ROTTING CORPSE OF DEAD HORSE (wasRe: BAT's word wrapping abilities...)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi John, On 29 December 2001 at 20:28:28 John Rainer wrote to Dierk Haasis and made these points: JR - I just there was a switch to make it behave in a more JR conventional fashion and keep everyone happy. Very laudable ... but: moderator This horse is dead. Please stop riding it here. /moderator - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator ~~~ \ BrainStorm - free thinking - www: http://www.brainstormsw.com / \ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com / · TB! v1.54 Beta/20-14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2 · -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) iD8DBQE8LizBOeQkq5KdzaARAqKiAJ0cBgRzlV+eSBR2DGN2gZXq7ElHRwCg2hMV p+vlrIA/afaoz2/s5VI7dNk= =NMQF -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
On 29 Dec 2001, 12:22:52 PM, Rémi Pach wrote: I use e-mail to write messages, not to create little bats with ASCII characters, like you. Perhaps messages sometimes can encompass more than just words? -- Dwight A. Corrin P O Box 47828 Wichita KS 67201-7828 316.263.9706 fax 316.263.6385 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! 1.54/Abacus on Windows NT version 5,1 -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
EXTREMELY DEAD HORSE Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Dwight, On 29 December 2001 at 15:50:00 [GMT-0600] (which was 21:50 where I live) Dwight A Corrin wrote to Rémi Pach and made these points: DAC Perhaps messages sometimes can encompass more than just words? moderator And perhaps list members will listen to the moderators. Please stop discussing on *any* branch of this thread here. Enough already! That's four times now. I'll take the polite mode button off next time. /moderator - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator ~~~ \ BrainStorm - free thinking - www: http://www.brainstormsw.com / \ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com / · TB! v1.54 Beta/20-14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2 · -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) iD8DBQE8LkHbOeQkq5KdzaARApF6AJ9HlARwRNeV+cbUo5fwlw0Rw2r1/ACfUZLR KgNUElHojOWuA9usg2FPhEg= =oaWl -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
On Saturday, December 29, 2001 2:41:12 PM, Marck D Pearlstone wrote: S Is it normal, that the BAT cannot wrap correctly? Whenever I paste S a text, it just keeps on going towards a few meters outside the S right side of my monitor - why can it not wrap it? Because it is not supposed to unless you use Paste formatted (Shift-Ctrl-Ins). This is by design. S I was told by one of the programmers, that I would have to use some S keyboard combination, but that doesn't work out correctly all the S time, since I sometimes have certain formatted texts, that lose all S their formatting once I do that. That's why it's not supposed to reformat when pasting normally. I seldom paste text when I edit a message, so I've no problem using alt L if that happens occasionally. But I change very often text that I've written, and I find it quite irritating that I have to use alt L continually to keep the text readable. When I use auto-wrap I want to have auto-wrap, and not free formatting. The problem is that TB tries to combine two different methods that are not really compatible into one option. Auto-format is useless for me, as I often use indented and/or shorter lines. I think it would be much better two have two different options: 1. auto-wrap (as long as you edit the program uses soft returns, which are converted to hard returns when you save the file, and with the enter key you can force a hard return), without free format (so if you want to move the cursor ahead of the text you have to insert spaces or tabs - I have no problem with that), 2. no auto-wrap and free format (you can move the cursor everywhere). The editor as it now is, is definitely unpractical when it tries to combine these options. I find this one of the flaws of TB (which is further still the best mailprogram I know). Peter Smitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.xs4all.nl/~psmitt http://www.fine-art.com/psmitt -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[2]: BAT's word wrapping abilities...
Saturday, December 29, 2001, 6:48:20 PM, you wrote: [...] Because it is not supposed to unless you use Paste formatted (Shift-Ctrl-Ins). This is by design. Gez. It's days just like this that make you want to go guzzle a bottle of scotch and then put a gun in your mouth. Bingo! So that's how you do it! I knew there had to be a way, that TB! was otherwise just too damn good of a program not to allow you to retain the formatting from a cut and pasted blob of text. If I told everyone here what I've been doing, all these many months now, to get around this perceived problem, you'd all laugh, so I'm not going to do it. But suffice it to say, I'm laughing hard enough for everyone else. Thank you, Peter! Thank you, Peter! PS: Yep, Jan's recent words should be inscribed on every Bat! user's tombstone: Is it possible that you are not yet familiar enough with TB! to know how to implement all its options to get what you want? -- Joe Finocchiaro mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
