Re: Future Development
Dear Eddie, --- Eddie Castelli / Sonntag, 10.02.2002, 09:12:32 Future Development ADDENDUM: Sorry for my ignorance but what is DBCS support ? Double Byte Character Set | || | +--++-+ DBCS Look for further Infoermations at: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q181276 have a nice day :-) -- best regards Eddie Powered by The Bat! v1.54 Beta/39 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 PGP (public) is available: www.EddieCastelli.com/pgpkey/ -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Future Development
Hello Eddie On Sunday, February 10, 2002, at 10:12:32, Eddie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote to Shahar about: Future Development Sorry for my ignorance but what is DBCS support ? Double Byte Character Set Thank you. One more question: Is is 8 Bit decoding or I mess here everything ? -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Future Development
Dear Shahar, --- Shahar / Sonntag, 10.02.2002, 09:19:58 Future Development Double Byte Character Set Is is 8 Bit decoding or I mess here everything ? Unfortunately I'm not very familiar with this. My Answer I could give you after googling on the word DBCS. But: after googling again on dbcs (8-bit|8bit|8 bit) I found the Information you where asking. It says: = http://www.double-byte.com/102800.htm == DBCS is designed to support Asian languages, and uses both 8-bit and 16-bit character encoding. For ASCII, not ANSI, characters, the 8-bit encoding is used. For the Asian languages characters, the 16-bit encoding is used. Thus, implementing DBCS support in your application would require extra coding. You have to check if a character is an 8-bit character or a first/last 8-bit of an 18-bit character. There are different DBCS for different Asian languages. For example, Japanese has its own while Korean has its own character set. You might end up with a code for Japanese, another code for Korean, another for Simplified Chinese, and so on; how would you like to maintain that many codes for just one application? = /http://www.double-byte.com/102800.htm/ == Does this help you? Enjoy your day :-) -- best regards Eddie Powered by The Bat! v1.54 Beta/39 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 PGP (public) is available: www.EddieCastelli.com/pgpkey/ -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Future Development
Hello Eddie On Sunday, February 10, 2002, at 10:41:08, Eddie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote to Shahar about: Future Development Dear Shahar, --- Shahar / Sonntag, 10.02.2002, 09:19:58 Future Development Double Byte Character Set Is is 8 Bit decoding or I mess here everything ? But: after googling again on dbcs (8-bit|8bit|8 bit) I found the Information you where asking. It says: Does this help you? Yes it does. Thank you!. Enjoy your day :-) You too. Thank you for writing. -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Future Development
Hello Eddie On Sunday, February 10, 2002, at 09:58:08, Eddie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote to Shahar about: Future Development I'd just like to know once and for all if we are ever headed in the direction of full DBCS support. Sorry for my ignorance but what is DBCS support ? Thank you for writing. -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Future Development
On Sunday, February 10, 2002, at 10:05:33, Shahar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote to Shahar about: Future Development Hello Eddie On Sunday, February 10, 2002, at 09:58:08, Eddie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote to Shahar about: Future Development I'd just like to know once and for all if we are ever headed in the direction of full DBCS support. Sorry for my ignorance but what is DBCS support ? Thank you for writing. Oooops. Sorry. Is it me playing here or something else ? -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Future Development
On 10 February 2002 at 08:24 Yuki wrote: Very advanced in what context? What I am asking about actually, I guess, is the often referred to but somewhat phantom version 2. And my comment above is really about release versions, not betas. There hasn't been a new release version, highlighted on the TB home page, since June 19 of last year. I'm not really interested in running a beta, although a beta being developed with DBCS support would probably change my mind very quickly. Version 2, I heard, a long time ago, was supposed to be headed in the direction of DBCS support. I'd like to hear from someone who knows if this is still the case, or even if there is currently development being done on version 2 -- serious development, of course. I wouldn't be surprised if it's dying. E-mail clients are not fantastic money makers in the first place. I'd just like to know the current story. Part of the problem is that TB!'s numbering is too modest - 1.54 is a big upgrade to 1.53. But, at the moment, + 1.54 definitely doesn't include double-byte encoding or Unicode support; + 2.00 has had both of these hinted at, as well as a new filtering system, new editor with HTML writing as well as reading, new user interface, news reading plugin, full IMAP4 folder handling, support for global peace and understanding (only joking about the last one ;) What I don't know is what happens when 1.54 is released; does 2.00 beta 1 instantly appear with all these new features ready for (doubtless protracted) testing? EC If you want to have a TB!Japanese you better get in touch with EC Ritlabs directly. I am not interested in a TB! Japanese. Not in the slightest. What I am interested in is a TB! English that can read Japanese e-mail, and that will let me input Japanese directly into its message editor. I hate to say this . . . but Microsoft is starting to get way ahead of the game here, with their Global Input Method Editor (IME). This allows almost seamless input of Japanese, Chinese, or Korean into English Office documents, or into English Web documents. Of course, it works just fine with Outlook, as well. As far as I can see the IME can work with third-party applications: http://www.eu.microsoft.com/windows/ie/downloads/recommended/ime/default.asp So, in principle, there's no difficulty integrating it into TB. The problem is making the developers see this :( I shall email them privately about this. Alastair -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re[2]: Future Development
Sunday, February 10, 2002, 4:58:08 PM, Eddie wrote: EC The development of TB! is very advanced - currently at EC v1.54beta39. There is a list discussing all pertaining to EC TB!bata. You also can subscribe to EC [EMAIL PROTECTED] an post your msg to EC [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's a very interesting Group. Very advanced in what context? What I am asking about actually, I guess, is the often referred to but somewhat phantom version 2. And my comment above is really about release versions, not betas. There hasn't been a new release version, highlighted on the TB home page, since June 19 of last year. I'm not really interested in running a beta, although a beta being developed with DBCS support would probably change my mind very quickly. Version 2, I heard, a long time ago, was supposed to be headed in the direction of DBCS support. I'd like to hear from someone who knows if this is still the case, or even if there is currently development being done on version 2 -- serious development, of course. I wouldn't be surprised if it's dying. E-mail clients are not fantastic money makers in the first place. I'd just like to know the current story. EC If you want to have a TB!Japanese you better get in touch with EC Ritlabs directly. I am not interested in a TB! Japanese. Not in the slightest. What I am interested in is a TB! English that can read Japanese e-mail, and that will let me input Japanese directly into its message editor. I hate to say this . . . but Microsoft is starting to get way ahead of the game here, with their Global Input Method Editor (IME). This allows almost seamless input of Japanese, Chinese, or Korean into English Office documents, or into English Web documents. Of course, it works just fine with Outlook, as well. EC No need to look for alternative - there are non ;-) It's nice to be a fan, Eddie. I'm a fan, too, but I'm not a fan beyond all reason. I need to be even more international than TB! is at the moment. And sadly, there *are* alternatives. They may not be as great as TB! in some respects, but I need to be able to have Japanese e-mail functionality on an English system. If TB! can't give that to me, and fairly soon, for whatever reason, it's probably time for me to move on, even if that alternative is Outlook. I would GLADLY pay a bit extra for this functionality, mind you, even with MS is trying to shove Outlook down my throat for basically nothing, since it's really just a no-cost add-on to Office. Yuki ^_^ -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Future Development
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Alastair, On 10 February 2002 at 10:51:36 + Alastair Scott wrote in [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd just like to clarify a couple of points here. I'd like to hear from someone who knows if this is still the case, or even if there is currently development being done on version 2 -- serious development, of course. Yes. The feature set of 1.54 includes most (80%) of the stuff speculated about for V2. I wouldn't be surprised if it's dying. Very, very far from it! TB progresses and the team is working hard on it. E-mail clients are not fantastic money makers in the first place. I'd just like to know the current story. Part of the problem is that TB!'s numbering is too modest - 1.54 is a big upgrade to 1.53. Correct. But, at the moment, + 1.54 definitely doesn't include double-byte encoding or Unicode support; Although this has not appeared, there is better support for Japanese, Thai and Chinese in the new version. DBCS will probably now be a 2.1 feature. + 2.00 has had both of these hinted at, as well as a new filtering system, Present in 1.54 (although not yet under full test). new editor with HTML writing This reportedly under way. as well as reading, There is a new display engine which also includes support for variable pitch fonts. new user interface, This is not on the cards AFAICS. news reading plugin, This has not been done as yet. full IMAP4 folder handling, 2.1 :-) support for global peace and understanding Supported in the pre v1 alphas and betas (what a cosmopolitan and varied crowd we are in the TB user department!). (only joking about the last one ;) What I don't know is what happens when 1.54 is released; does 2.00 beta 1 instantly appear with all these new features ready for (doubtless protracted) testing? 1.54 may well be introduced as v2 since, as I said at the top, it already has 80% of the slated v2 functionality. - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator ___ \ BrainStorm - think outside the box http://www.brainstormsw.com / \ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com / · TB! v1.54 Beta/39-14F4B4B2 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2 · -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) iD8DBQE8ZlZnOeQkq5KdzaARAitHAJ43/XMniusZcMvwxwcydTZUva7MfwCcCfz/ leJk4/C5pE4BtryZ7IleEk0= =ypSd -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Future Development
Dear Yuki san, --- Yuki Taga / Sonntag, 10.02.2002, 09:24:44 Future Development Very advanced in what context? What I am asking about actually, I guess, is the often referred to but somewhat phantom version 2. And my comment above is really about release versions, not betas. There hasn't been a new release version, highlighted on the TB home page, since June 19 of last year. Final v2 is in development. The process is - and this is the deep thought of TB!beta - to first develop Functions that work. No need to explain how users would react when a SW-Version is released with a lot of bugs. So joining the TB!beta gives to everyone the chance to give in his thought and participate in testing so as to help in bringing out a stable v2. BTW - beta39 is so good that you could make use of it as your v1.53o with the difference that it has added functions and features. I'm not really interested in running a beta, although a beta being developed with DBCS support would probably change my mind very quickly. [...] Only your participation in the TB!beta list can answer this. I'd like to hear from someone who knows if this is still the case, or even if there is currently development being done on version 2 -- serious development, of course. there is a constant development process and the people at RITLABS work very hard to a final v2. I wouldn't be surprised if it's dying. E-mail clients are not fantastic money makers in the first place. I'd just like to know the current story. No way Yuki san. Don't ever think of it. TB! is much more used on this planet as you may dream of - belive me. I am not interested in a TB! Japanese. Not in the slightest. Just my thought :-) What I am interested in is a TB! English that can read Japanese e-mail, and that will let me input Japanese directly into its message editor. [...] If no one in this list can answer you this you should contact RITLabs directly. Stefen and Maxim are very open an communicative and you would for sure get the most competent answer. It's nice to be a fan, Eddie. I'm a fan, too, but I'm not a fan beyond all reason. I need to be even more international than TB! is at the moment. But a fan is also a person who does not expect that *his* function is available immediately but works toward his goal. You have all opportunities by joining the different ML and Communicating with the developers to reach your aim. And TB! is very International (read my words above)! And sadly, there *are* alternatives. My comment had a Smile ... They may not be as great as TB! [...] ACK! -- best regards Eddie Powered by The Bat! v1.54 Beta/39 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 PGP (public) is available: www.EddieCastelli.com/pgpkey/ -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Future Development
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello Yuki, You wrote on 2/10/2002, 9:24 AM: Yuki I am not interested in a TB! Japanese. Not in the slightest. Yuki What I am interested in is a TB! English that can read Japanese Yuki e-mail, and that will let me input Japanese directly into its Yuki message editor. FYI, the current beta has Shift-JIS encoding in the XLAT manager (Options - XLAT tables). Maybe it's worth a look (note: I thought in Shift-JIS it is possible that one character is encoded as a multibyte sequence, it's not possible in an XLAT table, or is it?) But you probably want full Shift-JIS + ISO-2022-JP + UTF-8 support. (I do, too) - -- Cheers, SyP I'm not afraid of dying, I just don't want to be there when it happens. (Woody Allen) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 ckt build 5 iQA/AwUBPGaUf9kgnrcJiuwTEQKAXwCgxXrZ8n4ZwSXbMxb3jz2k1dHnJCUAoO56 VjQmwBg6NOptpL5+CSGsZau5 =l+Si -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Future Development
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hello all, I wrote on 2/10/2002, 5:40 PM: SyP FYI, the current beta has Shift-JIS encoding See also: http://www.iac.gatech.edu/modlangs/Japanese/s-jis.html - -- Cheers, SyP Given the choice between dancing pigs and security, people will choose dancing pigs every time. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 ckt build 5 iQA/AwUBPGacZNkgnrcJiuwTEQKk5wCeOaaisTRDU1H/vw0KveAKxrZelUUAnRwr 0k2uoJclG1IGUAb/FSyVlfZv =N6Xv -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Future Development
Sunday, February 10, 2002, 7:51:36 PM, Alastair wrote: AS Part of the problem is that TB!'s numbering is too modest - 1.54 AS is a big upgrade to 1.53. AS But, at the moment, AS + 1.54 definitely doesn't include double-byte encoding or Unicode AS support; A shame. I see that Shift-JIS character set support has been added to the beta, but this was almost a waste of time as far as I can tell, because almost no Japanese use this character set anymore. Everything, or certainly almost everything, these days, is ISO-2022-JP. Selecting Shift-JIS from the character set menu allows me to read zilch. Nada. Zero. AS As far as I can see the IME can work with third-party AS applications: AS So, in principle, there's no difficulty integrating it into TB. AS The problem is making the developers see this :( AS I shall email them privately about this. I hope you are successful. I may send a letter myself. Microsoft is taking this ball and running with it, and the end result is that I may soon be using Outlook. I run English Windows 2000, with an English Office XP on board. When I get Japanese e-mail and I open it in Outlook, I have to do . . . nothing . . . to view it properly. It simply appears as perfectly formatted Japanese text in the viewer. So, it's not an operating system limitation, given that you have the right font packages installed. It's a developer limitation, and one I think that any serious e-mail client with pretensions to internationalism would have to have this capability. Certainly when a free client has it, a non-free client is going to have to compete, or ultimately lose. Maybe the folks at Rit simply don't have a very good idea of how much Japanese and Chinese e-mail is exchanged between English and other non-DBCS platforms. I can assure them the number is huge, and growing by leaps and bounds daily. Microsoft is obviously on to this, and may make inroads into Rit's market that may prove hard for Rit to win back after the fact. Best, Yuki mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Future Development
All: With no release version since June 19 of last year, it seems that development of TB! has slowed down somewhat. If this is to concentrate on the (mythical?) version 2, at the expense of versions 1.xx, great. Anyone know? And does anyone know the status of incorporating full double-byte character set support directly into TB? Specifically, it would be nice if I could input Japanese directly into TB! using MS's Global IME, which allows me to input it directly into Word or MSIE docs, even running an English OS and English Office. Unfortunately, the ability to copy said Japanese input from a Word doc into a TB e-mail seems a hit or miss proposition. Sometimes it works, producing Japanese text viewable to Japanese readers on their systems, and sometimes producing screen garbage on their systems. I'd just like to know once and for all if we are ever headed in the direction of full DBCS support. If not, I have to start searching for alternatives again, and may simply have to resign myself to Outlook. Can anyone speak with any authority on what Rit Labs is up to in this regard? Best, Yuki ^_^ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Future Development
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Good morning Yuki San, --- Yuki Taga / Sonntag, 10.02.2002, 08:41:24 Future Development With no release version since June 19 of last year, it seems that development of TB! has slowed down somewhat. If this is to concentrate on the (mythical?) version 2, at the expense of versions 1.xx, great. Anyone know? The development of TB! is very advanced - currently at v1.54beta39. There is a list discussing all pertaining to TB!bata. You also can subscribe to [EMAIL PROTECTED] an post your msg to [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's a very interesting Group. And does anyone know the status of incorporating full double-byte character set support directly into TB? Specifically, it would be nice if I could input Japanese directly into TB! using MS's Global IME, which allows me to input it directly into Word or MSIE docs, even running an English OS and English Office. Unfortunately, the ability to copy said Japanese input from a Word doc into a TB e-mail seems a hit or miss proposition. Sometimes it works, producing Japanese text viewable to Japanese readers on their systems, and sometimes producing screen garbage on their systems. If you want to have a TB!Japanese you better get in touch with Ritlabs directly. Write to Stefan Tanurkov [EMAIL PROTECTED] or Maxim Masiutin [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Who knows if they have already a solution? They are very glad to help you out. BTW - is TB! already translated into Japanese? I'd just like to know once and for all if we are ever headed in the direction of full DBCS support. If not, I have to start searching for alternatives again, and may simply have to resign myself to Outlook. Can anyone speak with any authority on what Rit Labs is up to in this regard? No need to look for alternative - there are non ;-) - -- best regards Eddie Powered by The Bat! v1.54 Beta/39 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 PGP (public) is available: www.EddieCastelli.com/pgpkey/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt (Build/06) iQA/AwUBPGYaB64/ZNbAL0NqEQLP/ACfY37OgLPsyhQ1HmyoBQiZ8V55YPAAoPVa UO7IcQIscqyCZ+3HPLJkWXZz =5Jb7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: Future Development
Dear Shahar, --- Shahar / Sonntag, 10.02.2002, 09:05:33 Future Development Sorry for my ignorance but what is DBCS support ? Double Byte Character Set | || | +--++-+ DBCS -- best regards Eddie Powered by The Bat! v1.54 Beta/39 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 PGP (public) is available: www.EddieCastelli.com/pgpkey/ -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
