Re: Let's write an English manual for The Bat! that is suitable for printing
Dear Vili, -- Sonntag, 30. November 2008, 18:55:02: - first we simply import the CHM into HelpManual (I tried it, works, some formatting does not come over). Advantage of HM is that we can create PDF very easily, etc. Ok, so at this point we have a PDF v0. - some people go over it and decide which parts to change, what extra parts to write - those people decide who corrects/writes those parts - everybody does his job by the deadline the people agree [...] May I suggest that you open a place at site.google.com where anyone who participates can do his/here editing without moving the file. This prevents that there are too many files wandering around and no one knows really what or where is the last version. -- liebe Grüsse www.EddieCastelli.com Eddie :ec: on Tour Current version is 4.0.38.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Let's write an English manual for The Bat! that is suitable for printing
Hello Eddie, Sunday, December 14, 2008, 6:36:20 AM, you wrote: EC May I suggest that you open a place at site.google.com where anyone EC who participates can do his/here editing without moving the file. This EC prevents that there are too many files wandering around and no one EC knows really what or where is the last version. I searched the past thread on this subject and didn't see your name in any of the posts so you may not be aware of what was discussed. Although, I may have lost some of the posts due to automatic purging. When this thread started on 11/28 several suggestions were made but apparently no consensus was reached. I suggested the following submitted here for your perusal: - copy of message sent to list 11/30 - Fellow list members, I've been following this thread since the beginning and find it unusual that no one has mentioned the Tiki (similar to WIKI I suppose) for TBUDP (The Bat! User Documentation Project) located at the PCWIZE website (http://www.pcwize.com/). The following link will take you directly to the TBUDP page: http://www.pcwize.com/thebat/tbudp/tiki-index.php Since this project has already been started, it would seem that it falls directly in line with what every one in this thread is asking for. I've discovered that once you have registered, you are allowed to create new, and edit existing, pages. Would a printable manual really be necessary if one could always go to this site for answers to TB how-to questions? And if a printable manual is preferable to on-line help, maybe the contents of this TIKI could be printed in some sort of hard-copy manual. Just curious. end copy I'm not sure if a Tiki tracks edits the way a Wiki does but if it's the same, then all edits would be recorded including who the author of the edit was. My apologies if you've already seen this post. -- Best regards, Jackmailto:jlar...@charter.net Using TB! v3.99.3 with K9 v1.28 anti spam Windows XP pro 5.1 Build 2600 - Service Pack 3 Current version is 4.0.38.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Let's write an English manual for The Bat! that is suitable for printing
Dear Jack, -- Sonntag, 14. Dezember 2008, 15:09:25: EC May I suggest that you open a place at site.google.com where EC anyone who participates can do his/here editing without moving EC the file. This prevents that there are too many files wandering EC around and no one knows really what or where is the last version. I searched the past thread on this subject and didn't see your name in any of the posts so you may not be aware of what was discussed. Although, I may have lost some of the posts due to automatic purging. When this thread started on 11/28 several suggestions were made but apparently no consensus was reached. I suggested the following submitted here for your perusal: - copy of message sent to list 11/30 - Thanks for resending. On 11/28 I wasn't online anymore due to a very bad 'flue' my system caught. Today I downloaded all posts that where coming in but found only One posting from you (see msid below). Did you send it to this list? mid:1133248758.20081130144...@charter.net -- liebe Grüsse www.EddieCastelli.com Eddie :ec: on Tour Current version is 4.0.38.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Let's write an English manual for The Bat! that is suitable for printing
Hello Eddie, Sunday, December 14, 2008, 9:28:04 AM, you wrote: EC Dear Jack, EC-- Sonntag, 14. Dezember 2008, 15:09:25: - copy of message sent to list 11/30 - EC Reading /and/ understanding what you read doesn't work as is should al EC time. I just figure out that you made a copy of the your post into EC your response to me. A first and (too) quick look made me believe it EC was another posting. No problem. It's awfully early on a Sunday morning to expect our brains to function 100%. I know mine doesn't. -- Best regards, Jackmailto:jlar...@charter.net Using TB! v3.99.3 with K9 v1.28 anti spam Windows XP pro 5.1 Build 2600 - Service Pack 3 Current version is 4.0.38.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Let's write an English manual for The Bat! that is suitable for printing
Dear Jack, -- Sonntag, 14. Dezember 2008, 15:09:25: - copy of message sent to list 11/30 - Reading /and/ understanding what you read doesn't work as is should al time. I just figure out that you made a copy of the your post into your response to me. A first and (too) quick look made me believe it was another posting. -- liebe Grüsse www.EddieCastelli.com Eddie :ec: on Tour Current version is 4.0.38.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Let's write an English manual for The Bat! that is suitable for printing
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:31:39 +, Privateofcourse [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, me too! However, the difference is that the manual that users are proposing to produce here is a printable manual, not an electronic manual for viewing/reading on a monitor. Actually it is no more difficult to offer a printable PDF or HTML for download than it is to come up with the CHM file. Apart from some rather minor formatting [page breaks can be awkward] the only downside for RITLabs is the additional traffic the PDF will generate - since many will download it. I'd gladly offer the PDF version if a) RITLabs agrees [either in public or by written statement] that I am allowed to do so, b) RITLabs provides me with good JPEGs of their logo and one or two image variations of the bat so I can polish up the PDF a bit. A quick test run yesterday showed that there's one very annoying formatting problem, which I think I can tackle in relatively short time [hence: do it for free]. If it turns out I have to put in more than a reasonable amount of time I will say so and either not produce the PDF or ask for a little bit of compensation. After all, The Bat! is a commercial product and my time is precious, too. -- Dierk [DH² Publishing] www.DH2Publishing.info Writing and Imaging Current version is 4.0.38.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Let's write an English manual for The Bat! that is suitable for printing
Well, I seem to remember LOADS of special pictures of the Bat over the years. Not sure how many there were but I thought many since the begin if you add special events!With many converting programs existing its just a matter of finding the correct ones. Actually it is no more difficult to offer a printable PDF or HTML for download than it is to come up with the CHM file. Apart from some rather minor formatting [page breaks can be awkward] the only downside for RITLabs is the additional traffic the PDF will generate - since many will download it. Compress it and it should make all the difference, or no difference I mean... No idea how winzip 12 behaves in practice. I tried it the last few days but it seems a bit slow... However if conversion from Sony to LIT and PDF is anything to compare with, it should be fast. Converting a cd with Sony format to LIT took not much time... Obviously some files were of the type which will not correctly convert automatic... I used some Bean cd's for the test... (books) A quick test run yesterday showed that there's one very annoying formatting problem, which I think I can tackle in relatively short time [hence: do it for free]. If it turns out I have to put in more than a reasonable amount of time I will say so and either not produce the PDF or ask for a little bit of compensation. After all, The Bat! is a commercial product and my time is precious, too. -- Dierk [DH² Publishing] www.DH2Publishing.info Writing and Imaging Current version is 4.0.38.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html -- with greetings, tracer Current version is 4.0.38.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Let's write an English manual for The Bat! that is suitable for printing
Hello Peter, This is what you said on Sun, 30 Nov 2008 19:35:48 +0100 your time: Shouldn't Ritlabs produce manuals for their software? At first I was going to say I 100% agree, but then I thought about it some more and decided that I didn't 100% agree after all. I find it odd that users need to produce manuals for a commercial software product. Yes, me too! However, the difference is that the manual that users are proposing to produce here is a printable manual, not an electronic manual for viewing/reading on a monitor. Freeware/open source, yes; payware, no. Indeed, TB! isn't OS software, as you say, but it does come with a manual. Okay, TB!'s manual hasn't always been the best, and over the many years I have been using TB! the manual has received much criticism from users, but that's something else entirely...another topic. It seems to me that the manual being discussed here is a 'printable manual', which is something entirely different to an electronic manual supplied with the software...as TB! has one of those. User's getting together to produce a 'free' (I would hope) 'print ready' manual for TB! is a project that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the authors of TB! Many software vendors charge extra for printed versions of their manuals, granted, but not all vendors actually provide printed or printable versions of their manuals. This usually opens up the doors for third parties to make a bit of money, and as we all know the manual writing business is rather lucrative. So if TB! users want to get it together and produce a completely _free_ comprehensive, exhaustive, print ready manual for other TB! users then I fully support the project. Well, as long as it is organised properly, and the finished product can be thoroughly checked for errors and validated by other 'expert users'. -- Simon (Privateofcourse) #19341. We Hnd Owes Giro? ¶ TB! 4.0.38 WinXP Pro Service Pack 3 Current version is 4.0.38.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Let's write an English manual for The Bat! that is suitable for printing
With the right software any manual you can look at can be printed It may not be your taste but it will print. Indeed, TB! isn't OS software, as you say, but it does come with a manual. Okay, TB!'s manual hasn't always been the best, and over the many years I have been using TB! the manual has received much criticism from users, but that's something else entirely...another topic. From the very begin I seem to remember I printed it out... Ok, on a mainframe...(g) on a laser printer... It seems to me that the manual being discussed here is a 'printable manual', which is something entirely different to an electronic manual supplied with the software...as TB! has one of those. User's getting together to produce a 'free' (I would hope) 'print ready' manual for TB! is a project that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the authors of TB! If you use a help file as starter it likely will have something to do with them. Many software vendors charge extra for printed versions of their manuals, granted, but not all vendors actually provide printed or printable versions of their manuals. This usually opens up the doors for third parties to make a bit of money, and as we all know the manual writing business is rather lucrative. It can be but not if you have to fix up whatever someone doesn't likes... What surprises me is that the moderators who know about the product as their names are on the website haven't bothered to interfere... -- with greetings, tracer Current version is 4.0.38.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Let's write an English manual for The Bat! that is suitable for printing
Ok, I joked, but also, I am willing to participate in a project where we put together an English PDF manual. But I cannot do it alone. This is what I suggest: - first we simply import the CHM into HelpManual (I tried it, works, some formatting does not come over). Advantage of HM is that we can create PDF very easily, etc. Ok, so at this point we have a PDF v0. - some people go over it and decide which parts to change, what extra parts to write - those people decide who corrects/writes those parts - everybody does his job by the deadline the people agree - the editor/dictator :) goes over the parts and make the final corrections. If the issue is a serious one, he discusses it with the author. Final word is always the editor's. - we make a PDF then that is released. This is when people who are not actively included in the project can make suggestions, that could be included in PDF manual v2. So, who are willing to put some time into it? I estimate like ca. 40 hrs/person or little more. Project would take until the end of January, so it can be spread over two months, no reason to hurry during December. I am willing to do the HM editing, suggesting a structure, make the PDF v0. I can supply the editor with HM. I wont be editor. However, I strongly suggest to have ONE editor. Democracy in this kind of projects never work. Vili Current version is 4.0.38.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Let's write an English manual for The Bat! that is suitable for printing
Hello Vili, Sunday, November 30, 2008, 7:55:02 PM, among other things, you wrote: V So, who are willing to put some time into it? I estimate like ca. 40 V hrs/person or little more. Project would take until the end of V January, so it can be spread over two months, no reason to hurry V during December. I have the time and am willing to help. I may not have used all the features of TB but I am a native English speaker and have had editing experience, though not professionally! -- Best regards, Roger :flag-southafrica: The Bat! v4.0.39.31 (ALPHA) POP3 with AntiSpamSniper 3.1.0.2, on Windows XP, version 5 1, build 2600 and Service Pack 3 Current version is 4.0.38.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Let's write an English manual for The Bat! that is suitable for printing
Hi Vili, Sunday, November 30, 2008, 10:55:02 AM, you wrote: Ok, I joked, but also, I am willing to participate in a project where we put together an English PDF manual. But I cannot do it alone. This is what I suggest: - first we simply import the CHM into HelpManual (I tried it, works, some formatting does not come over). Advantage of HM is that we can create PDF very easily, etc. Ok, so at this point we have a PDF v0. - some people go over it and decide which parts to change, what extra parts to write That is simply an excellent suggestion (!) as Roger pointed out following your note, when he volunteered to help with the English editing. Like Roger, I have not explored all the fine features of TB, but like Roger, I could help with the text editing, having written tech manuals years ago (it was not my primary job, but I did it as an engineer helping develop such manuals for machine operators). There should be a good chief editor (not I!), and dividing up of tasks, reasonable deadlines, etc. Thank you, Vili, for your hard work on the Hungarian manual and for making this suggestion. Bob Riley Current version is 4.0.38.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Let's write an English manual for The Bat! that is suitable for printing
Vili, On 30-11-2008 18:55, you wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Ok, I joked, but also, I am willing to participate in a project where we put together an English PDF manual. Shouldn't Ritlabs produce manuals for their software? I find it odd that users need to produce manuals for a commercial software product. Freeware/open source, yes; payware, no. -- greeting Best regards /greeting author Peter Fjelsten /author thebat version 4.0.34 Pro /thebat versionextras MyGate, AVG /extras env. 12 IMAP (Courier) 1 IMAP (Exchange 6.5), 1 POP3 MyGate, 300K+ msgs. /env. os Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 /os Current version is 4.0.38.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Let's write an English manual for The Bat! that is suitable for printing
http://www.processtext.com/news.html A set of programs you (likely) never saw before. I downloaded most of them in the past but after my motorbike accident in January no idea where they ended up. But if you want to do any text converting, they are ideal. Sorry, I go bed to sleep! -- with greetings, tracer Current version is 4.0.38.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Let's write an English manual for The Bat! that is suitable for printing
http://www.processtext.com/news.html A set of programs you (likely) never saw before. I downloaded most of them in the past but after my motorbike accident in January no idea where they ended up. But if you want to do any text converting, they are ideal. Sorry, I go bed to sleep! I agree - his product are great and priced right. If you are using Help Manual though, you may not need them ... -- Rick In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell v4.0.39.31 (ALPHA) on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current version is 4.0.38.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Let's write an English manual for The Bat! that is suitable for printing
There are so many programs in what they have it is unlikely there isn't anything suitable. Note not all work as I found out when doing a bulk Sony format to Lit conversionThey also have email conversion stuff like the Bat! -- with greetings, tracer Current version is 4.0.38.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Let's write an English manual for The Bat! that is suitable for printing
Fellow list members, I've been following this thread since the beginning and find it unusual that no one has mentioned the Tiki (similar to WIKI I suppose) for TBUDP (The Bat! User Documentation Project) located at the PCWIZE website (http://www.pcwize.com/). The following link will take you directly to the TBUDP page: http://www.pcwize.com/thebat/tbudp/tiki-index.php Since this project has already been started, it would seem that it falls directly in line with what every one in this thread is asking for. I've discovered that once you have registered, you are allowed to create new, and edit existing, pages. Would a printable manual really be necessary if one could always go to this site for answers to TB how-to questions? And if a printable manual is preferable to on-line help, maybe the contents of this TIKI could be printed in some sort of hard-copy manual. Just curious. -- TIA, Jack LaRosa mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Conveying information with The Bat! ver: 3.99.3 Operating? with Windows XP Pro ver 5 build 2600 Service Pack 3 Current version is 4.0.38.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Let's write an English manual for The Bat! that is suitable for printing
Hi On Sunday 30 November 2008 at 8:49:08 PM, in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED], Jack S. LaRosa wrote: I've been following this thread since the beginning and find it unusual that no one has mentioned the Tiki (similar to WIKI I suppose) for TBUDP (The Bat! User Documentation Project) located at the PCWIZE website [...] http://www.pcwize.com/thebat/tbudp/tiki-index.php Since this project has already been started, it would seem that it falls directly in line with what every one in this thread is asking for. I thought exactly the same thing. Would a printable manual really be necessary if one could always go to this site for answers to TB how-to questions? Some people prefer a printable/printed manual. And is there such a thing as a site you can /always/ go to? And if a printable manual is preferable to on-line help, maybe the contents of this TIKI could be printed in some sort of hard-copy manual. It's certainly a good place to start. And the GNU Free Documentation License would allow inclusion of the material with or without modification. -- Best regards, MFPA Always be on the lookout for conspicuousness Using The Bat! v4.0.32.4 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Current version is 4.0.38.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Let's write an English manual for The Bat! that is suitable for printing
Ok, I joked, but also, I am willing to participate in a project where we put together an English PDF manual. PF Shouldn't Ritlabs produce manuals for their software? PF I find it odd that users need to produce manuals for a commercial PF software product. PF Freeware/open source, yes; payware, no. Yes, I know, but... Vili Current version is 4.0.38.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Let's write an English manual for The Bat! that is suitable for printing
http://www.processtext.com/news.html A set of programs you (likely) never saw before. I downloaded most of them in the past but after my motorbike accident in January no idea where they ended up. But if you want to do any text converting, they are ideal. Sorry, I go bed to sleep! R I agree - his product are great and priced right. If you are using R Help Manual though, you may not need them ... I already made the PDF v0, it needs some editing, and then the members of the team can take a look at it. Vili Current version is 4.0.38.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Let's write an English manual for The Bat! that is suitable for printing
JSL I've been following this thread since the beginning and find it JSL unusual that no one has mentioned the Tiki (similar to WIKI I suppose) JSL for TBUDP (The Bat! User Documentation Project) located at the PCWIZE JSL website (http://www.pcwize.com/). JSL The following link will take you directly to the TBUDP page: JSL http://www.pcwize.com/thebat/tbudp/tiki-index.php JSL Since this project has already been started, it would seem that it JSL falls directly in line with what every one in this thread is asking JSL for. I've discovered that once you have registered, you are allowed to JSL create new, and edit existing, pages. JSL Would a printable manual really be necessary if one could always go to JSL this site for answers to TB how-to questions? And if a printable JSL manual is preferable to on-line help, maybe the contents of this TIKI JSL could be printed in some sort of hard-copy manual. Yes, printable manual is always better. Even if you dont print it, you dont have to go online to find out something. I knew that there are sites/info about TB out there. What I suggest is to gather all useful info into one PDF. So, the goal is NOT to make something completely new, but a useful, comprehensive PDF. Vili Current version is 4.0.38.0 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
