Re: THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?
Wednesday, October 27, 1999, 7:30:11 PM, Thomas wrote: Why? Even if this was meant to offend computers (which it wasn't), why do you take it personally? Because it is an attack on those who don't find computers in that manner. SL difficult to use, I disagree - they are, for the general public. At least "too" difficult. The "general public" finds the concept of breathing too hard. What's your point? SL unreliable I believe this depends on the software - hardware is pretty reliable these days, in my personal experience. That depends on the OS, mostly. Windows is unreliable. Mac is unreliable. Yet these are the systems that were "designed" for the very clueless nits that Paula is talking about. I do see a correlation there. SL or frustrating. sigh I wish you were always right on this one. ;-) Why do you find your computers frustrating. What I find frustrating are the people who do not understand several of my points on why certain things work. Has nothing to do with the computers. So far the computers that I have worked on (the many, MANY computers I have worked on) have all done what I expected of them. It is rare that I find one that does not perform as expected. This is the point were I entirely disagree with you. Expectations that might look "unreasonable" to you today, may be the standard tomorrow. No, what looks unreasonable to me today is, well, unreasonable today. Tomorrow is another day. People have unreasonable expectations *today* for what computers can do *today*. People expect computers to sing, dance, play the fiddle, fart in the wind, do their taxes, and play a mean game of checkers all without them doing a thing. No, ain't gonna happen. Computers are one of the most complex, if not the most complex machine in use by the general population. It is complex because it is designed, from the onset, to be general. We have a machine that can kill you 20 ways to tuesday in a game, help you file your taxes, interface with other computers continents away like it was nothing, etc, etc, etc. In short it performed thousands of barely related tasks. Name another machine that can do that in general use. Now, people are expecting to use this very complex machine with *NO* training at all! People can't even hammer in a nail without some training. The hammer and nail both serve one function. One is designed to drive into material and the other is designed to place a large amount of force on a small area. Yet people need training for that. People need training to drive a car, to cook, to shower, to shave, to vacuum, to do everything in their lives, all of which, by comparison, use tools which are magnitudes less complex than the computer and they expect to be able to use the computer with no training at all. *THAT* is the unreasonable expectation. at Bank A today?") as an example. Keyboards are one of these things nobody wants to use in the future. Love that prediction. You know, there are a slew of people who don't want to use the mouse for many operations you would claim they would not want to use the keyboard for. I'm sorry, I'd rather type out many commands than say them because I can type them faster. rm -rf /foo/* | less "Arr Emm space dash arr eff space slash foo slash star space pipe less" "Computer, recursively and forcably delete all files in the root level directory foo, display the resulting information in the pager less" Oh, yeah, that is much easier. Yeah. *eyeroll* The average user does not need to be beyond complete idiots. Without going too much into detail, I take programming a VCR as an example. Good example. Programming a VCR has gotten easier and easier yet people still find it difficult. It does not matter how easy they make it, people need training and they don't want to put in the time and effort to learn. is that many people whose focus on life is somewhere else than computers, may not be too stupid to use them but simply not inrterested in the complicated way they work now. My focus is computers. Yet I still have taken training to do the many other things that I do in my daily life. Others can do the same for computers. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?
In Reference to "THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?" From Steve Lamb: SL Computers are one of the most complex, if not the most complex machine in SL use by the general population. It is complex because it is designed, from the SL onset, to be general. We have a machine that can kill you 20 ways to tuesday SL in a game, help you file your taxes, interface with other computers continents SL away like it was nothing, etc, etc, etc. In short it performed thousands of SL barely related tasks. Name another machine that can do that in general use. While I understand your point (and agree with most of it) I have to take exception to this portion. Computers don't actually "do" a varied amount of things. All they real do is compute. The software has a myriad of uses. To use your hammer anology, I can uses a hammer to build a house, break a rock, crack an egg (gingerly), straighten a bent whatever, etc. But all it's really doing is hammering. Just as a calculator could help me with taxes, build a bridge, and perform a hostile takeover of microsoft (a calculator and the GNP of 17 countries). Yeah, it's a nitpick, I know what you meant, but I had to toss in my 2 cents anyway. ;-) -- - Nick Nick Danger's Complimentary Curse (©¿©): May 10,000 incompetent convicts make camp in your jacket. Using The Bat! 1.36 under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998
Re: THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?
Hello Leif, Saturday, October 23, 1999, 6:07:32 AM, you wrote: Yes Outlook and Communicator package all that stuff together, but they are both bloated pigs of software that don't do their jobs very well. We have used Communicator since 4.5 version and Netscape 3.0 before for mail and it was perfect and working very well. The bat is a really good piece of software and news is relatively similar to e-mail management. I hope to see this feature too. Best regards, -- Technical Support http://www.monbebe.net Un site pour apprendre a etre parents -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?
On Monday, October 25, 1999, Leif Gregory wrote: PF I think that the list members as a whole are probably not very PF representative of the general user community and those who post PF even less so... I agree completely, but I'm of the strong conviction that to have a voice, you must vote... A democratic nation that ignores the fact that the majority of its citizens are not voting at all will be in trouble eventually; a business even more so. If the vocal minority is representative of the market, fine. If they are not ... well ... I've been computing for alot of years and could give you a long list of truly great programs that are no longer around, despite a core of avid, if not fanatical, fans, because that market wasn't enough to feed the programmers, who do have to eat like the the rest of us. I do have to say that I wish more people were tolerant of "unpopular wishes"... If you think it might be a better way, then ask! You might catch some flack, but hey, life goes on. No criticism of the list was intended. It's a nice list. Computers are not going away, they will continue to become a more and more integral part of our daily lives. Computers aren't intuitive, and like the great majority of other skills in the world, they must be learned and practiced. Not to digress too much, but I work with a man who recently purchased a PC for his home. He knows very little about PCs.He first bought a HP, when he struggled with setting it up because HP did not provide an easy, setup guide and he couldn't get his printer to work with it, he packed it up, returned it to the store and got an Compaq instead (e!) which is real good at thinking like people who know nothing about PCs. He's delighted with it; his wife is delighted with it; his daughter is delighted with it. This represents the future of computing. Computers will become a more and more integral part of our lives, but they will look and behave nothing like these primitive, difficult to use, unreliable, frustrating tools we use now - and it won't be that long - but in the meantime, there are livings, even fortunes, still to be made. This is the only argument I can't refute. In a business aspect, it would most likely behoove RIT Labs to cater to the larger and less savvy market. I love TB, but wouldn't hesitate to look elsewhere if it became bloatware. If RIT Labs thought they had a chance of putting TB on even a small part of corporate desktops, do you think there would be any contest? It all boils down to whether the niche market is enough to pay the bills and where RIT Labs wants to go. Somewhere in something written by RIT Labs, they say the program is intended primarily for businesses. I remember being surprised by that at the time, because I don't think I would have named my program The Bat! complete with animated logo if that were the case. I think - having sort of forgotten now - that my point was that a software company has more to consider than a few e-mails posted to a user list with respect to providing news reading capabilities or anything else about the development of their product. -- Paula Ford The Bat! 1.35 (reg) Windows 95 4.0 Build 950 -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?
Wednesday, October 27, 1999, 5:25:16 PM, Paula wrote: Computers will become a more and more integral part of our lives, but they will look and behave nothing like these primitive, difficult to use, unreliable, frustrating tools we use now - and it won't be that long - but in the meantime, there are livings, even fortunes, still to be made. Again, I take offense. I do not find my computers primative, difficult to use, unreliable or frustrating. I find that people have unreasonable expectations of what a computer should do and that they need to be educated to the fact that their expectations are entirely unreasonable. The alternative is the continued dumbing down of computers to a point where they are virtually unusable by anyone other than complete idiots. If RIT Labs thought they had a chance of putting TB on even a small part of corporate desktops, do you think there would be any contest? Yes, there would be. I think - having sort of forgotten now - that my point was that a software company has more to consider than a few e-mails posted to a user list with respect to providing news reading capabilities or anything else about the development of their product. Exactly, like looking for a niche market a lot of people forget, including you, repeatedly. The power user who doesn't want everything and the kitchen sink in their program. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?
On Wednesday, October 27, 1999, Steve Lamb wrote: Computers will become a more and more integral part of our lives, but they will look and behave nothing like these primitive, difficult to use, unreliable, frustrating tools we use now ... Again, I take offense. Again, I would ask what I said at which you should take offense. Perhaps you mean to say that you take exception. snip I think - having sort of forgotten now - that my point was that a software company has more to consider than a few e-mails posted to a user list with respect to providing news reading capabilities or anything else about the development of their product. Exactly, like looking for a niche market a lot of people forget, including you, repeatedly. The power user who doesn't want everything and the kitchen sink in their program. I think if you re-read my e-mails you will find that I fully recognize the niche market. The points being: (1) Is this RIT Labs intended market? I don't have a clue. (2) Is the market strong enough to support the company? Again, I don't have a clue. I repeat that I am not advocating for anything. I'm perfectly happy with my news reader. It's an interesting discussion of the factors that a software company must consider and the different needs of different markets. And, I have nothing further to add to what I've already said about it. -- Paula Ford The Bat! 1.35 (reg) Windows 95 4.0 Build 950 -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?
Monday, October 25, 1999, 1:43:44 PM, Paula wrote: Yes, of course, but I think that those with just a few questions, probably don't hang around long. Who knows? My point was only that postings to a user list are perhaps not the best guide of the wishes of the entire userbase, much less the potential userbase. This is where I take offense. Why is it that every program *MUST* do everything else that every other program does? Why? It completely ignores these two *FACTS*. 1: Not everyone *wants* every program to do everything. *THEY* represent a market that you will *KILL* in favor of pursuing an unknown mythical market, unvoiced, which is already served by several other applications. 2: By insisting that the authors spend time on another application they reduce the time they spend on this one, reducing its effectiveness to those people who like it in its current state. Please, if you want an all in one answer, go find one and *STOP* trying to make every software package homogenous! -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?
On Monday, October 25, 1999, Steve Lamb wrote: Yes, of course, but I think that those with just a few questions, probably don't hang around long. Who knows? My point was only that postings to a user list are perhaps not the best guide of the wishes of the entire userbase, much less the potential userbase. This is where I take offense. What exactly is there in what I said at which you should take offense? Why is it that every program *MUST* do everything else that every other program does? Why? It completely ignores these two *FACTS*. 1: Not everyone *wants* every program to do everything. *THEY* represent a market that you will *KILL* in favor of pursuing an unknown mythical market, unvoiced, which is already served by several other applications. I thought I made it clear that I understood this fact and that it was up to RIT Labs to decide which markets are their targets. However, the market for integrated software is hardly "unknown", "mythical" or "unvoiced" - it may simply be not heard from much on TBUDL. 2: By insisting that the authors spend time on another application they reduce the time they spend on this one, reducing its effectiveness to those people who like it in its current state. I would think this would depend on whether added functionality would increase sales sufficiently to balance costs of development. If it didn't and didn't add to profits, there wouldn't be any point in devoting any resources to it. Please, if you want an all in one answer, go find one and *STOP* trying to make every software package homogenous! First of all, _I_ am not trying to do anything or advocating anything. I was simply saying that there is another way of looking at the issue. Not being privy to RIT Labs financials or to market analyses, I have no idea what make sense for them. -- Paula Ford The Bat! 1.35 (reg) Windows 95 4.0 Build 950 -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?
Paula, On Tuesday, October 26, 1999, at 3:22 you wrote: PF On Saturday, October 23, 1999, Leif Gregory wrote: PF I think that the list members as a whole are probably not very PF representative of the general user community and those who post PF even less so. People who participate on mailing lists about PF software tend to be more computer-oriented than most people. I agree completely, but I'm of the strong conviction that to have a voice, you must vote. If you just sit back and watch the world go by, then you have no right to object when things don't go your way. Kind of like being irritated with the outcome of an election when you didn't even vote. I realize that not everybody has the inclination or time to sit in on UDLs, but I'm sure the majority of the users on TBUDL have just as little time as anyone else. PF People who express a desire for integrated functionality are PF routinely hooted down on mailing lists and newsgroups, so that I PF suspect that even among those who might be participating, they PF might not be inclined to express their views. This is true also, however I have to admit that there is some logic to this. Most "wishes" are items that only benefit a very few people (such as my wish to have mailing list manager functions (as a plugin of course)). This isn't to say that if you have an idea that you shouldn't post it. In fact I wholeheartedly support just the opposite. There have been quite a few "wishes" that I hadn't thought of that make perfect sense. I do have to say that I wish more people were tolerant of "unpopular wishes". I want everyone to feel comfortable enough on this list that they can post without fear of getting slammed, although I also hope that these same people realize that not every rejection is a personal attack. You've been on this UDL since I started it way back when, and I think that you would have to agree that TB wouldn't be the great piece of software it is without us speaking up and presenting our ideas. My father once told me that "The answer is always *no* unless you ask. Things are always being improved by those who sought a better way of doing it." If you think it might be a better way, then ask! You might catch some flack, but hey, life goes on. PF The other side of this argument is that the vast majority of users PF use, will use, and probably need only a fraction of the capability PF of a program. They don't need nor care about their software being PF master of anything. They also don't think or care about "bloat". Exactly! That's why I say leave the bloatware pigs like IE and NN for those who don't know any better, or don't want to know better, and leave at least some applications as "masters" for those of us who do know better. The world is a big enough place that software can be written to support both factions. My point being (and I do have one) is that the savvy users shouldn't be forced to use crippled software just because *everybody* wants to cater to the non-savvy market. Computers are not going away, they will continue to become a more and more integral part of our daily lives. Computers aren't intuitive, and like the great majority of other skills in the world, they must be learned and practiced. PF That's 15 programs with 15 different interfaces to learn and PF remember, often for tasks that are not performed that frequently. PF The commonality of interfaces and basic functions has benefits PF that can't be totally dismissed out of hand. In an office PF environment, this means less training costs, less support costs. I PF believe it was the desire for this intergration in a corporate PF setting that primarily motivated MS and Netscape to add and expand PF the news reader capabilities of their mailers. For home users, PF it's been my experience that many, maybe most, prefer integrated PF applications, because they don't want to have to deal with PF learning and maintaining many different applications. Plus there PF is the cost. When I got tired of NS crashing on me all the time PF and patched together my own suite of internet applications, it PF ended up costing me a couple hundred dollars total. Oh, I agree with you, but what I stated before that not all software should be crippled just to serve the masses, still holds true. Personally, I have no problem with using 15 different applications, because it is a personal choice I have made to support only the best software. I'm not saying that the masses have to follow our lead and learn all these apps, they can stay with software that suits them (IE and NN etc...) and leave my applications alone. PF Exactly. It is a niche market that appreciates and wants these PF small, fast, highly specialized products. I don't know how RIT PF Labs envisions the market for TB, but they seem to wish it to be PF used by businesses. If so, then a companion news reader might be a PF good idea, even if it does not have all the power of Agent or PF Gravity. I wouldn't use it myself, but
Re: THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?
Saturday, October 23, 1999, 2:30:22 AM, MaXxX wrote: COOPERATE with TheBat the Newsreader. The TWO SEPARATE PROGRAMS would You mean like PMMail and PMINews? Better than running two programs separately, IMHO. Why!? While they share some technical specifications they are handled quite differently. Look at the unix world. Pine does both mail and news. Most pine users (I was one for the longest time) don't use it for news. There are plenty of combined applications out there. If you really feel the need, please, use them. Don't screw up this email client. After having used 5 email clients extensively (IE, more than one continuos month at a shot) in my internet career (pine, pmmail/2, pmmail98, mutt, TB!) and evaluating damn near every other one I'd really like, just once, to have a client I like not have people push to have news in it. Pine has it in it, mutt users have hacked it into it, PMMail/2 spawned PMInews (which flopped despite being a kick ass news reader)... -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?
Hi all, On Friday, October 22, 1999, 10:34:09 PM (-5 GMT), Steve scribbled: Not to mention that with the common trend of trying to stuff everything into single applications people who *like* to use small, specialized applications are constantly switching as their current favorites grow to "compete". That's very true. ICQ is very bloated now, providing you with all sorts of fandangles that are unnecessary because the functionality is already provided with other applications that are on most users systems. So is getright and I ignored zipmagics upgrade which is also trying to do everything (they'll soon include a little antivirus program for heavens sake. For instance, here is my software use: For comparison here is my list for Linux then Windows. ;) Mail TB L: Mutt W: TB!, PMMail Usenet News Agent L: SLRN W: nothing (would be, uhm, XNews, I think) ^ That's a good one though it's an online newsreader. Not much offline reading functionality built in. Browser Opera L: Netscape, Lynx W: Opera FTP Cute FTP L: lftp W: LeechFTP D/L Manager Getright N/A (FTP everything possible) Pic ViewerACDSee L: gtksee W: ACDSee TelnetCRT 3.0 L: telnet, ssh W: TeraTerm Pro w/TTSSH extentions IM/chat ICQ L: licq, micq W: ICQ Chat mIRC L: BitchX W: Xircon Clipboard Clipmate N/A I use clipcache here. Text Textpad 4 L: vim W: vim (as an aside, vim is also my mail editor on Linux, I'd like it to be on TB! as TB!'s editor only has real-time spell checking going for it, and it is also my news editor and my programming editor. IE, Windows forces me to use 4 different editors with different keybindings and capabilities. Unix lets me pick one editor that does it all and does it damned good. *That* is a prime example of using specialized programs for the task at hand. NoteTabPro and WinEdt are great. I'm sure mine differs as well. I try to go with free software whenever possible. That is why I use TeraTerm Pro instead of SecureCRT. TTP with TTSSH extenstions has the same feature set that I need as SecureCRT and costs $99 less. Aside from Opera, PMMail (which I no longer really use) Quicken98 there isn't much software on the Windows side that I've paid for and I don't think there is any in which I am violating the license. There's a lot of functionality required to make newsreading effective. It doesn't simply entail making TB support the NNTP protocol. Once newsreading is included, TB developers would be busy trying to make the newsreading functionality worthwhile and ignoring the refinement of the e-mail manager which is what the app was originally designed to do. Leave me out of that. I used Agent for my e-mail management before TB! but stopped because it simply didn't manage my mail as effectively as TB did. The Agent developers refused to create too much software bloat and I appreciate them for that. -- Regards, -=Ali=- Oxymoron: Standard deviation. *---* Using The Bat! 1.36 on Windows NT 4.0 (Service Pack 5) *---* -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?
Hi all, On Saturday, October 23, 1999, 11:49:33 AM (-5 GMT), Thomas scribbled: I find it very usable but awfully slow. For larger FTP's (and with my baud rate, each new version of TB qualifies), I telnet into my own account, "get" the file via unix' ftp command onto the home directory on my ISP's server (high baud rate), and then use WS_FTP to get it from my local server onto my PC. Sounds complicated, but in the end is faster. ;-) A most interesting undertaking. Don't you require special privileges to do this, i.e., downloading files to your ISP's home directory? Otherwise it sounds like a neat way of dealing with the connection speed when downloading files. -- Regards, -=Ali=- Waiter, there's no fly in my soup! - Kermit *---* Using The Bat! 1.36 on Windows NT 4.0 (Service Pack 5) *---* -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?
Hi! Ali Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] about "THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?": A most interesting undertaking. Don't you require special privileges to do this, i.e., downloading files to your ISP's home directory? Otherwise it sounds like a neat way of dealing with the connection speed when downloading files. Yes, I often do it the same way. Wget for example works perfectly in such cases. I just put all the huge downloads (e.g. "Futurama" episodes) in a queue file and they are downloaded overnight. The next day, I can get them with the full bandwidth instead of 1 bps... ;) -- Christian GassmannPGP key (DH/DSS): 0x017EF0CA Internet Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ UIN: 12893571 Using The Bat! 1.36 under Windows NT 4.0 Build 1381 Service Pack 5 -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?
Saturday, October 23, 1999, 5:28:45 AM, Ali wrote: That's very true. ICQ is very bloated now, providing you with all sorts of fandangles that are unnecessary because the functionality is Geez, I had completely forgotten about it. The only reason I upgraded to ICQ99a was so I could have message lengths over 450 characters. I'd love to see some of the 'nix people port their versions to Windows. I'd be perfectly happy with licq or micq (if micq would fix a major bug, that is). W: nothing (would be, uhm, XNews, I think) ^ That's a good one though it's an online newsreader. Not much offline reading functionality built in. The one I was looking at used SLRN style score files (a requirement) and did have nice offline capability. So most likely, if you're right, it wasn't XNews. It also was free. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?
DOLIST, On Saturday, October 23, 1999, at 5:54 you wrote: DSI Hello, DSI THE BAT! already does most of the e-mail job, any chance to have DSI newsgroup read/send. DSI Think of it, all in one is better to switch between many software DSI and Outlook/Communicator integrates both mail and news. This is where I think you will find the most disagreement. The majority of the list members (let me clarify that, the majority back when the list was on PCSInet, the demographics may have changed some since then.) Felt very strongly against incorporating other functions like news reading, and even HTML into TB. Yes Outlook and Communicator package all that stuff together, but they are both bloated pigs of software that don't do their jobs very well. A certain phrase comes to mind when thinking about these two software packages. "Jack of all trades, master of none." I would much rather use separate pieces of software that are "masters" than one kludged together bloated pig that can do a little bit of everything. For instance, here is my software use: Mail TB Usenet News Agent Browser Opera FTP Cute FTP D/L Manager Getright Pic ViewerACDSee TelnetCRT 3.0 IM/chat ICQ Chat mIRC Clipboard Clipmate Text Textpad 4 Online timer Logtime AVNorton Stocks/MF PSM C2C link Laplink Pro I'm sure my list will differ in areas from others (everybody has their favorites), but my point is that I don't want a piece of software that can only do a half job. I realize that for a great number of Internet/computer users, this may not be the case, because they don't push the envelope. A "Cashless God". Is THAT what they mean by "non Denominational" Leif Gregory -- TBUDL/TBBT List Moderator ICQ 216395 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web Site http://www.pcwize.com TBUDL FAQ http://www.pcwize.com/thebat Using The Bat! 1.36 under Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium 266 with 64MB. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: THE BAT! Will it be a newsreader option ?
On Sat, Oct 23, 1999 at 01:07:32PM +0900, Leif Gregory wrote: I would much rather use separate pieces of software that are "masters" than one kludged together bloated pig that can do a little bit of everything. Not to mention that with the common trend of trying to stuff everything into single applications people who *like* to use small, specialized applications are constantly switching as their current favorites grow to "compete". For instance, here is my software use: For comparison here is my list for Linux then Windows. ;) Mail TB L: Mutt W: TB!, PMMail Usenet News Agent L: SLRN W: nothing (would be, uhm, XNews, I think) Browser Opera L: Netscape, Lynx W: Opera FTP Cute FTP L: lftp W: LeechFTP D/L Manager Getright N/A (FTP everything possible) Pic ViewerACDSee L: gtksee W: ACDSee TelnetCRT 3.0 L: telnet, ssh W: TeraTerm Pro w/TTSSH extentions IM/chat ICQ L: licq, micq W: ICQ Chat mIRC L: BitchX W: Xircon Clipboard Clipmate N/A Text Textpad 4 L: vim W: vim (as an aside, vim is also my mail editor on Linux, I'd like it to be on TB! as TB!'s editor only has real-time spell checking going for it, and it is also my news editor and my programming editor. IE, Windows forces me to use 4 different editors with different keybindings and capabilities. Unix lets me pick one editor that does it all and does it damned good. *That* is a prime example of using specialized programs for the task at hand. Online timer Logtime N/A AVNorton N/A Stocks/MF PSM N/A C2C link Laplink Pro L/W: NFS, Samba(SMB) mounts, FTP... I'm sure my list will differ in areas from others (everybody has their favorites) I'm sure mine differs as well. I try to go with free software whenever possible. That is why I use TeraTerm Pro instead of SecureCRT. TTP with TTSSH extenstions has the same feature set that I need as SecureCRT and costs $99 less. Aside from Opera, PMMail (which I no longer really use) Quicken98 there isn't much software on the Windows side that I've paid for and I don't think there is any in which I am violating the license. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
