Re: CNET Bat review (also line-wrap)
Hello Nick, It was foretold that on Sunday, December 30, 2001 at 9:45 PM, Nick Andriash [NA] would type: NA In my estimation, we could resolve a lot of this simply by providing NA User definable Toolbars, I know it would be nice, but could you imagine the support horror if that were implemented? Every person could have different menus, so there would be no way of telling them how to find the feature they want/need. -- Thanks for writing, Januk Aggarwal I simply wasn't cool enough for them (whomever they were) to offer drugs to me. Drugs were everywhere, that's what the TV said. I could get offered drugs at any time. Yeah, right. -- J. Sullivan -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: CNET Bat review (also line-wrap)
On Mon, 31 Dec 2001 11:51:35 +0800, Thomas F [TF] graced us with these comments: ... TF IMHO this is quite a reasonable suggestion. However, I wouldn't TF change the whole interface to hide advances functions, but rather TF move advanced funtions under an Advanced... menu item in each TF menu. TF Many programs have an Advanced tab for the more complex TF features, so this should not be too far-fetched. This sounds nice to me. Although come to think of it, flow of the menus depend on the options being sensibly categorised and listed in a prioritized fashion in that the more frequently used options are listed first for each category. Using your system, we may very well end up separating two related functions. Case in point: Shouldn't the 'alternate forward' option be placed under the 'forward' option. Users will more readily know that this useful function exists. In fact, those other three reply options that are with 'alternate forward' really shouldn't be there, IMHO. It only makes the options harder to get at and hidden from the user. -- ©Allie C Martin (_ List Moderator and fellow end user __) TB! v1.54 Beta/20 WinXP Home Ed. PGPKey: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=PGPPubKey1 ¯¯ -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: CNET Bat review (also line-wrap)
Hello Januk Aggarwal, On Monday, December 31 2001 at 01:06 AM PDT, you wrote: I know it would be nice, but could you imagine the support horror if that were implemented? Every person could have different menus, so there would be no way of telling them how to find the feature they want/need. No, not at all. Most modern Mail Clients have customisable Toolbars, yet the context menus available remain the same. The Toolbar option simply allows one to put buttons of the most used menu options on the Toolbar so that you don't have to keep searching through multiple levels of sub-menus to find what you need. :o) Not only should the Main Toolbar be customisable, but the Message Editor Toolbar as well. In the end, I think this would alleviate a lot of the problems new Users have with TB's complexity. -- Nick -=N.J. Andriash | Courtenay, B.C. Canada=- Win 98SE | GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32) | Becky v2.00.08 _ -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: CNET Bat review (also line-wrap)
Hello Allie, On Mon, 31 Dec 2001 06:53:05 -0500 GMT (31/12/2001, 19:53 +0800 GMT), Allie C Martin wrote: TF move advanced funtions under an Advanced... menu item in each TF menu. ACM This sounds nice to me. Although come to think of it, flow of the ACM menus depend on the options being sensibly categorised and listed in a ACM prioritized fashion in that the more frequently used options are ACM listed first for each category. Using your system, we may very well ACM end up separating two related functions. It is indeed somethng which needs some thought before it can be implemented. ACM Case in point: ACM Shouldn't the 'alternate forward' option be placed under the 'forward' ACM option. Users will more readily know that this useful function exists. I agree. Alternate Forward (and the Reply options) should really be under the Message menu and not under Specials. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Die Streichhoelzer muessen gut versteckt werden, damit sie keine kleinen Kinder bekommen. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.54 Beta/20 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 67766446 A using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: CNET Bat review (also line-wrap)
Hi Don, On Sat, 29 Dec 2001 11:47:37 -0800GMT (30/12/2001, 03:47 +0800GMT), Don Taylor wrote: DT I've never used an e-mail client that comes anywhere close to TB! in DT terms of power and flexibility -- especially in the area of multiple DT e-mail accounts. I recommend it heartily to anyone who will listen, DT but I always have to include one caveat: With power and flexibility DT comes a confusing array of choices (which has been alluded to in DT several of the recent posts). I agree with you here. DT I'll repeat the suggestion I've made before: Provide *one more* DT selection that switches between novice mode and seasoned user DT mode. IMHO this is quite a reasonable suggestion. However, I wouldn't change the whole interface to hide advances functions, but rather move advanced funtions under an Advanced... menu item in each menu. Many programs have an Advanced tab for the more complex features, so this should not be too far-fetched. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Anmeldung unter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.53t under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: CNET Bat review (also line-wrap)
Hello Thomas F, On Sunday, December 30 2001 at 07:51 PM PDT, you wrote: IMHO this is quite a reasonable suggestion. However, I wouldn't change the whole interface to hide advances functions, but rather move advanced funtions under an Advanced... menu item in each menu. In my estimation, we could resolve a lot of this simply by providing User definable Toolbars, so Newbie's (default setting) and Power Users alike could customise their Toolbars/Options to suit their own specific needs. Well, it might not resolve all the problems, but it sure would be a step in the right direction. :o) -- Nick -=N.J. Andriash | Courtenay, B.C. Canada=- Win 98SE | PGP 7.1 | Becky v2.00.08 -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: CNET Bat review (also line-wrap)
On 29 December 2001 at 6:02 pm Avenarius wrote: Hi Bat-fellows, need to brag about something: back in July I ventured to write a few succinct lines of appreciation of The Bat! at CNET's www.download.com. Tonight while casually browsing that server, I've noticed that the review has been picked by CNET as representative for introducing The Bat's features to potential new users. It's a good one! Further down the thread there's a few interesting comments (first in part): The interface for composing messages is among the worst I've seen. The one in Pine (UNIX) is better, for crying out load. So if, say, you reply to a message, there's all kinds of configuration options, but no way to simply line-wrap the quoted text. Plus, if you have two paragaraphs without a filler carriage return between them, the autoformat jams them together. The autoformatter also seems to fill in spaces so when you key upward you don't cling to the flush left words. This proved to be incredibly annoying. And frustrating that there was no way to tweak the options to fix this (especially given how many other options could be changed). So I fled to PocoMail, and have been quite pleased. The editor for composing messages is SO bad, that it ruins an otherwise very nice program. Although I don't agree with the comment about PocoMail it all comes back to the same point as before; because of the complexity of the options and the interactions between them the author is confused! That the editor is being rewritten is good. If one could embed inter alia TextPad, NotePad or UltraEdit into TB! for good measure ... how about an editor plugin like the antivirus plugin? :) Alastair -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
TB! editor, line-wrap [was: Re: CNET Bat review (also line-wrap)]
A Bat-fellow, Alastair Scott, wrote on 29 December 2001 at 19:07:09 GMT, which was 20:07 in Bratislava -- AS Further down the thread there's a few interesting comments [...]: The editor for composing messages is SO bad, that it ruins an otherwise very nice program. AS [...] because of the complexity of the options and the AS interactions between them the author is confused! Absolutely. Here's something else for those who dislike TB!'s editor to mull over, found at http://email.about.com/library/weekly/aa010801b.htm A WORLD-CLASS MESSAGE EDITOR When you compose a message with The Bat!, you do it with the best email editor I've seen so far. Its powerful auto-wrap and auto-format functions make it easy to write neat email messages that are not a pain to read. This works even with replies. With minimal effort, the appropriate parts of the original email are arranged as quotations that do not break the formatting of the rest of the message. Almost all other email clients should take an example by The Bat!'s editor. Is it then true that TB!'s editor is primarily suited for the needs of power users rather than ordinary users? Perhaps it only comes across as such to the first-time user, which wouldn't then be a fault in the editor but in its presentation as Alastair says. Surely it's in the interest of not nerds but everyone to be able to write neat email messages that are not a pain to read because quotations do not break the formatting of the rest of the message. -- Yours, Alex. of Slovakia www.avenarius.sk [flying with The Bat! 1.54/12 under Windows 98 4.10 Build 67766446 A amd k6-2 500 mhz processor with 128 mb ram] -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: TB! editor, line-wrap [was: Re: CNET Bat review (also line-wrap)]
On 29 Dec 2001, 1:48:52 PM, Avenarius wrote: Is it then true that TB!'s editor is primarily suited for the needs of power users rather than ordinary users? Perhaps it only comes across as such to the first-time user, which wouldn't then be a fault in the editor but in its presentation as Alastair says. Surely it's in the interest of not nerds but everyone to be able to write neat email messages that are not a pain to read because quotations do not break the formatting of the rest of the message. Here I go again. The one thing the editor needs is the ability to block text in a message, then use reply to all and have that text be marked as a quote, instead of the whole message, as can be done to reply to one with F-4. -- Dwight A. Corrin P O Box 47828 Wichita KS 67201-7828 316.263.9706 fax 316.263.6385 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! 1.54/Abacus on Windows NT version 5,1 -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: TB! editor, line-wrap [was: Re: CNET Bat review (also line-wrap)]
On 12/29/2001, Avenarius wrote: s it then true that TB!'s editor is primarily suited for the needs of power users rather than ordinary users? Perhaps it only comes across as such to the first-time user, which wouldn't then be a fault in the editor but in its presentation as Alastair says. Surely it's in the interest of not nerds but everyone to be able to write neat email messages that are not a pain to read because quotations do not break the formatting of the rest of the message. It took some getting used to, but I absolutely love the Bat's editor. They can add the option to use an external editor, or improve the existing one for the upcoming v2.0, but *please* don't touch the original editor's functionality. :-) -- Regards, Don Zeigler ...Don't sweat the petty things, pet the sweaty things Irritating tagline brought to you by The Bat! 1.54 Beta/15 at 6:10:35 PM on Saturday, December 29, 2001 www.donzeigler.com Grand Funk Railroad's Roadkill Fan Club Photo Gallery Official One-Eyed Gypsy Fan Site The Mothman of Point Pleasant Fred on Everything Crossing Over with John Edward -- Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Latest Vers: 1.53d FAQ: http://faq.thebat.dutaint.com
Re: The bat review
On Saturday, February 03, 2001, 2:24:45 PM, Yuki wrote: I'm surprised to hear *this*. g OE displays CJK perfectly in the message list window as well? You can read subject lines? I couldn't do this with the regular version of Outlook, although most of the messages would display perfectly. (There are some messages I get that come in not formatted to Outlook's standards, I guess. Something to do with the placement of the ISO-2022-JP tag, I think, and these I can only read by opening the message and specifying the language code, and then saving them that way.) Now come to think of it, I'm not so sure anymore. It happened when I was trying out TB and Becky. At the same time, I was planning a migration from Chinese Win98 to English Win2k. So for a brief time, I was using them and OE (my old email client) concurrently, switching back and forth between C-Win98 and E-Win2k. I wanted to use English as my default system locale, with traditional Chinese, Simplified Chinese, and Japanese language support installed. I remember I could read/write Chinese (I don't write Japanese) equally well in OE and Becky, including subject lines in message list pane. I wasn't going to stay with OE much longer, so the choice came down to Becky and TB. Despite Becky's excellent DBCS support (perfectly reasonable for a product from a Japanese programmer), I liked TB substantially better. So much so that I was willing to settle for using Traditional Chinese as my default system locale to workaround the DBCS deficiency. Since neither Becky nor OE is on my system anymore, I couldn't verify it. It's a make-or-break issue for me in terms of staying with this client, It's not make-or-break for me for the moment, since I'm in the U.S. and read/write Chinese email only occasionally. It will be in a few months. and being able to recommend it to my Japanese friends. Same here. -- Best regards, Ming-Li The Bat! 1.49c | Win2k SP1 -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The bat review
On Saturday, February 03, 2001, 9:53:13 PM, Thomas wrote: Errr So does it work with XLAT tables for CJK or not? When I write in Chinese, I want to set the charset to "big5", so it would show up correctly (and automatically) in Chinese in the recipient's email client. I couldn't do that before creating a pair of XLAT tables for big5. So I did. The XLAT tables in fact translate nothing, however. The input and output values remain the same. It's a pair of dummy XLAT tables. -- Best regards, Ming-Li The Bat! 1.49c | Win2k SP1 -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The bat review
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Ming-Li, On 04 February 2001 at 05:09:33 -0800 (which was 13:09 where I live) Ming-Li wrote and made these points: ML ... XLAT tables for big5 moderator Please can you move this (now lengthy and detailed) discussion to TBTECH. I keep thinking it's wound down then there's another thought on it and it's getting pretty long winded now. /moderator Ta! - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA / TBTECH [ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com ] [Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs ] TB! v1.49e S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness iQA/AwUBOn1YZDnkJKuSnc2gEQIGowCfQctLiYr0ZfnxWlT1hyQVGG9K0LAAnRfQ ik/qArnPp7w8SBLRaTdh/FkL =AMWR -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The bat review
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Ming-Li, On 04 February 2001 at 04:57:20 -0800 (which was 12:57 where I live) Ming-Li wrote and made these points: ML It's not make-or-break for me for the moment, since I'm in the ML U.S. and read/write Chinese email only occasionally. It will be in ML a few months. and being able to recommend it to my Japanese friends. ML Same here. moderator Please can you move this (now lengthy and detailed) discussion to TBTECH. I keep thinking it's wound down then there's another thought on it and it's getting pretty long winded now. /moderator Ta! - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA / TBTECH [ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com ] [Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs ] TB! v1.49e S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness iQA/AwUBOn1YfTnkJKuSnc2gEQIdTACfeO9H13fQpROIaY/TIAM5pAQvBGkAoNcO GKCVDy+3EzUVhdXqg9564X2S =DAk7 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The bat review
On Wednesday, January 31, 2001, 11:43:44 PM, Thomas wrote: I'm running W2k Pro (SP-1), and using NJStar Communicator 2.23(NT). So I guess W2K is not "all languages" as advertised. I don't think they advertise "all language" support, only those supported by Unicode. For that, Win2k is doing a decent job. I can read/write Chinese without problem without NJStar or any other FEP. As Yuki properly pointed out, however, I have to set Chinese as my default system locale, which causes some display problem for other non-DBCS-aware programs. But I'd take that rather than using a FEP. -- Best regards, Ming-Li The Bat! 1.49c | Win2k SP1 -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The bat review
On Thursday, February 01, 2001, 12:16:06 AM, Yuki wrote: It's an incomplete "all languages" at best. I could have the same setup I have right now with TB! using Outlook, but OL is apparently never going to have the fix where you can read subject lines in the message window, unless you configure your system for Japanese default. I'm surprised to hear this. I've no experience with Outlook, but Outlook Express display everything just fine (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, whatever), without FEP, and without having to set my default system locale to Chinese--IOW, a pure English Win2k setup. As long as the proper language supports are installed (since you're using Win2k, I believe you know the difference of language support and default language). The same applies to IE, and Word, and Netscape 6. I'm hoping that TB! will come through. The list has been hearing the same wish from me for the last several months. It's good to hear another one who needs DBCS support as badly as I'm. It's promised for v2, which would hopefully see the light sometime this year. To be fair to MS, which goes against my grain g, there is apparently a "multi-language version" of Win2k, which apparently costs an arm and a leg, but which will handle all these problems just fine. Hmmm, I'm not sure. AFAIK, the multi-language version of Win2k comes with multi-lingo-supported UI (menus and helps), but otherwise is the same as the standard version. It won't really solve the problem. And I don't think the problem can be solved by MS alone. Win2k provides an environment where any supported codepage can be displayed properly regardless of what the default system language is. But it's up to the individual application to call the right system function to do that. It's especially true for DBCS. -- Best regards, Ming-Li The Bat! 1.49c | Win2k SP1 -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The bat review
On Thursday, February 01, 2001, 2:28:17 AM, Yuki wrote: Probably . . . but to be honest with you, until opening TB! for the first time, I've never come across the term XLAT table. So I don't know where the heck I would look to find one. There's none. Period. The XLAT table works on single byte to single byte translation, and it just doesn't work on double-byte system like Japanese, Chinese and Korean. What I does is creating a Big-5 (Chinese) XLAT table which translates nothing! System default would be used and it's Chinese on my system. I can't see Japanese properly in this setting, even if I setup a Japanese XLAT table the same way, :( for Japanese is not my system default. BTW, you still have to setup a XLAT table for a charset if you want to write email in that charset. -- Best regards, Ming-Li The Bat! 1.49c | Win2k SP1 -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The bat review
Hallo Ming-Li, On Sat, 3 Feb 2001 11:08:09 -0800 GMT (04/02/2001, 03:08 +0800 GMT), Ming-Li wrote: There's none. Period. The XLAT table works on single byte to single byte translation, and it just doesn't work on double-byte system like Japanese, Chinese and Korean. Ah-so deska. BTW, you still have to setup a XLAT table for a charset if you want to write email in that charset. Errr So does it work with XLAT tables for CJK or not? -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. In a Yugoslavian hotel: The flattening of underwear with pleasure is the job of the chambermaid. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.49e under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366Mhz, 128MB RAM -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The bat review
Hi Yuki, On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 17:16:06 +0900GMT (01/02/2001, 16:16 +0800GMT), Yuki Taga wrote: To be fair to MS, which goes against my grain g, there is apparently a "multi-language version" of Win2k, which apparently costs an arm and a leg, but which will handle all these problems just fine. But having just paid MS for this version, I don't really feel like contributing again. I wasn't even *aware* of this other version, which is apparently aimed at and priced for the corporate market, until I had already purchased this one. I thought W2K is aimed at the corporate market anyway, with it really being NT5 and all; while Windows ME is aimed at the private user, a newly-polished version of Win98. Oh well. T I don't know NJ Star Comm, so cannot comment on this. It's quite well known in the FEP world, the successor to NJWin. Ah, now I see. There were some TB users on this list that used NJWin. - calling into the darkness: "Are you still out here?" That explains it then. I think we all could use a mail client that can handle any message coming in with the appropriate language tag, no matter what the OS is based on. Right-click on any incoming message and choose Encoding. As long as the encoding of the message is recognised by TB, it will automatically switch; otherwise, you can still manually switch. You need to install the XLAT table and fonts, of course, so TB can display the message correctly. I can read messages in Thai, but my Windows doesn't know anything about Thai. TB does it all! :-) However, I am not sure this works also for the subject line. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Anmeldung unter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.49e under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: The bat review
Hi Yuki, On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 18:14:00 +0900GMT (01/02/2001, 17:14 +0800GMT), Yuki Taga wrote: T Right-click on any incoming message and choose Encoding. Say what? g I right click on a message in the reader, and I don't get an 'Encoding' option. Neither do I seem to get it in the message list window. What on earth am I missing? You surely don't mean 'Character Set'? Well... I do. It's called Message Encoding in the editor (under the Options menu) and Character Set in the viewer. Talk about inconsistency. ;-) But there's no Japanese support there yet anyway. Well, you'll have to put it in, like I put in the Thai support. I don't know where you would get a Japanese XLAT table. But it would probably be easier for you to find it than me. The XLAT table can either be typed in by hand (main menu: Options / XLAT tables), or more likely, you will get it as a registry key, which you will have to put into your registry under HKCU / Software / RIT / The Bat! / XLT / I got the Thai XLAT tables (for two different Thai encodings) as .reg files that put themselves in there. Once that is in, you will have to put a monospaced Japanese Font into your C:\Windows\Fonts directory. Enjoy all those messages in Japanese that will come in and be easy to read for you even without any FEP. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Anmeldung unter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.49e under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: The bat review
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Yuki, On 01 February 2001 at 20:20:48 +0900 (which was 11:20 where I live) Yuki Taga wrote and made these points: YT Whoa, Marck, that would require a lot of people to suddenly YT unlearn a habit ingrained by decades of repetition. Well, I stopped smoking in Nov 1999 after 26 years. There are a lot of people changing that habit too. I also stopped having a mug of coffee for every waking hour of the day at the same time. Habits *can* be unlearned when they are seen to be inappropriate. I'm not telling you that you must - or even /should/ - change your habits. I'm just making the philosophical point that it is an option available to you :-). YT Aren't coders good enough to make life liveable for everyone? YT ^_^ (see my last para). ACM Sure. Disable auto-indent in the editor properties. :=) YT Curtis, I did this, but I still ran into the situation where when YT a sentence happens to end close to the line wrap, two spaces after YT the period end up on different lines, with an undesirable YT one-space indent. Have I missed something? What turning off auto-indent should prevent is the "creeping left margin" phenomenon when this happens. It won't prevent a space from taking up a real character position in the text. It is up to you to be looking at the screen (rather than the keyboard) while typing ;-)). Seriously though, there is nothing TB can do other than obey what you are typing. How is TB (or the programmers teaching the editor how to respond) supposed to know that the space you *typed* at the start of a new line is *not* supposed to be an indentation in this instance? I can't think of an implementation rule or a switch that would work clearly and cleanly and not get in the way of what's *supposed* to work. - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA / TBTECH [ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com ] [Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs ] TB! v1.49e S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness iQA/AwUBOnlPTznkJKuSnc2gEQKJAACguPNcP5JQPq6/zhJKWMLx3+VwxCoAoPGH p5h/LTF6ocRmtpMvF3NLju9y =JBya -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: The bat review
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Allie, On 01 February 2001 at 06:35:23 -0500 (which was 11:35 where I live) A . Curtis Martin wrote and made these points: ACM ... this only happens when auto-format is not being used, ACM otherwise auto-format will remove the unwanted indent on the fly. Interestingly, this seem to work flawlessly with double spaces after punctuation marks *and* when the spaces overrun the end of the line. This looks like your "best bet" setting, although you will have to be very cautious about leaving a clear line between paragraphs and about starting to type in the blank line before a formatted block (the sig block is *my* favourite for on-the-fly subsuming). - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA / TBTECH [ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com ] [Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs ] TB! v1.49e S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness iQA/AwUBOnlRDTnkJKuSnc2gEQIINACcCjxPOShCXiOABMAcLmqeREPSqzEAoN0h sJ0yDfM82Q2lafXxPOrjFHh1 =uBSV -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: The bat review
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Thomas, On 01 February 2001 at 22:36:20 +0800 (which was 14:36 where I live) Thomas wrote and made these points: snip T Enjoy all those messages in Japanese that will come in and be easy to T read for you even without any FEP. Now *that* is where I want to be . . . T We're getting there. ;-) Could you possibly take it the rest of the way there on TBTECH? Ta! - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA / TBTECH [ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com ] [Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs ] TB! v1.49e S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness iQA/AwUBOnl8DTnkJKuSnc2gEQKuvgCggAZNQ3t2NARzT8BKUGUj/ehcLtoAoMke dK4uGzcju/6ApwmmU7/ip36w =kriV -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: The bat review
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Silver, On 01 February 2001 at 09:16:07 -0800 (which was 17:16 where I live) Silver Fox wrote and made these points: SF Don't get me wrong, the benifits far outweigh this minor SF inconvenience, but... It is possible, and most of the office SF application programming world accomodates it already. None of the applications you cite do plain text formatting with support for automatic indentation (optional). Some perform indentation (for word processing) but need extra formatting codes to do it. Anyway, this problem is easily overcome in the TB editor by turning on auto-format so - case closed AFAIAC :-). - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA / TBTECH [ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com ] [Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs ] TB! v1.49e S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness iQA/AwUBOnmsgDnkJKuSnc2gEQKPxgCgnaNSEn0Ma+kTE4DlyzgZs6K/KkEAn2Cl 5inMeHIoPGnwRyd/wSeBu/Fi =jsmw -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: The bat review
Hi Marck, Historians believe that Wed, 31 Jan 2001 at 10:43 GMT + was when, Marck D. Pearlstone [MP] typed the following: snip MP [...] I personally would say that IMHO two MP spaces are a hangover from typewriting and should be discarded for MP electronic forms up publishing. ...says the man using plain-text justification (ie lots of double spaces.) ;-) For the humour impaired, I'm just kidding, I really don't want to dig up that DH again. As Marck said: snip MP :-). But that's just my opinion. Each to their own. -- Thanks for writing, Januk Aggarwal Using The Bat! 1.49c under Windows 98 4.10 Build A I should probably engage that largish, grey organ lurking inside of my skull a bit more often. I think it's called a brain. -- Simon -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: The bat review
Hi Yuki, On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 15:53:47 +0900GMT (01/02/2001, 14:53 +0800GMT), Yuki Taga wrote: I'm running W2k Pro (SP-1), and using NJStar Communicator 2.23(NT). So I guess W2K is not "all languages" as advertised. I don't know NJ Star Comm, so cannot comment on this. Problem with getting a lot of Pegasus users over to TB!, however, is that a lot of Pegasus users are used to free. g So, for free you can read "no Japanese". You get waht you pay for, iosn't that what they say? g One solution would probably be to set the default language for the system to Japanese. But I have some other applications that require English, and setting the system to Japanese breaks some aspects of those apps. The default langauge on my system is Chinese. I have disabled this on the reg howqever, with the result that I can now see European characters (if an email is written in German), which is more valuable to myself. However, other apps (MS-Word) will still be toggleable to Chinese. I'm surprised you can read the subject lines in the message list window. What FEP are *you* using? ^_^ None. I use Chinese Windows 98. With a Chinese GUI - and I'm sooo thankful that TB (and some other apps) are in English. ;-) -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. Anmeldung unter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.49e under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: The bat review
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Andrew, On 30 January 2001 at 19:08:06 - (which was 19:08 where I live) Andrew Hodgson wrote and made these points: AH This was given to me by Jim Hill, he created it some time back AH when testing out the bat with another mailserver. snip huge and largely out-of-date analysis You would do well to get v1.49 checked since most of the issues have been dealt with, Although I can't vouch for the intimacies of the server connection handling. WRT the statement you made that TB has a multitude of RFC deficiencies, I don't find that this review supports that statement. I would like to see what RIT labs would make of the analysis although until it is brought up to date (1.42 was nearly a year ago!) I doubt that it will be taken seriously. Also, it should be noted that *no* client software that I know of offers "an smtp server for receiving mail as an alternative to pop3" or "options to send via mx lookup instead of direct to smart host". This is functionality reserved for MTA, not MUA software. I am surprised that someone so obviously knowledgeable in the field would have insinuated otherwise. - -- Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA / TBTECH [ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com ] [Any opinions are my own and not those of RIT labs ] TB! v1.49d S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 1 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP 6.5.8 Secured Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness iQA/AwUBOnccUjnkJKuSnc2gEQJqwwCePzZkWAxSc9LNNFkMQeeCjrykqWoAni7c Vp2qZcZj+8xgn0RWx7bNCdg+ =Xxs6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- __ Archives : http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com Moderators : mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TBTech List: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
