Re[2]: ! and CJK
Saturday, October 16, 1999 Hello Keith, Saturday, Saturday, October 16, 1999, you wrote: Keith Russell "Mixed language versions" like Thai? I don't understand what you're Keith Russell saying here. english or whatever European language with Thai/Chinese/japanese etc etc or like from what I heard French with Arabic... Most of those mixed versions have always been bugridden and have very limited update capability ( hardly any system patches) and in addition some hardware/software doesnt want to run. Very first Thai version was real bad and famous for it.. Keith Russell So do you live in Thailand or the U.S.? I am from the Netherlands, but havent been there in 25 years, now live in Thailand... Keith Russell Ouch! If you're in Thailand, it was definitely inevitable--the way Keith Russell they drive Are you okay now? one more month doctor just said, then pin goes out... anyway, it was me, I drove the damned bike off the road and my helmet (German made) broke the colarbone, that was all... Keith Russell Great for business, eh? boring... Donot forget one has to keep their data, they never know where they have it and some systems have those Fujitsu drives which last here an average of about 8 months I think before the head dies... Thai has a small utility from a local university which works fine, Keith Russell Small utility that does what? You should have it already... I just mailed it.. with one font. Keith Russell So we have someone with a Spanish surname who lives in Taiwan and Keith Russell doesn't read or write Chinese but does read or write Thai, and another Keith Russell who lives (or works) in Thailand and doesn't read or write Thai My kids do (g) Keith Russell This is truly an international community we have here, isn't it? I Keith Russell think it's great! (As well as being very envious) One main reason I like software like theBAT is that if windows corrupts, and that happens a lot, it doesnt impact my mail/news or whatever. Ok, I have to dig up my serial etc to reregister it again and select the accounts but the number of people I see loosing all their mail/addressbooks in Outlook Keith Russell That's an EXCELLENT point! Also, of course all the viruses are aimed Keith Russell at Microsoft software. 100% true. So I tell them but it takes time... Keith Russell Different from what? Do you mean that they're not DBCS fonts? Or that Keith Russell TB will display Thai using various fonts? Or something else? I need to know 2 things: when you want to change fonts for the editor: where are the fonts specified it lists??? How to add more?? secondly, I notice that the tables mention Thai but they donot seem to be setup as its the same characters converting to the same characters. In short, whats required to fix the table or/and whats required to add a font. After all, I am probably in one of the best places to get a Thai font or if necessary even to convert one... Best regards, tracer Using theBAT 1.36 mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] NOTE: 1 MAILRUN PER DAY ONLY -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: ! and CJK
Sunday, October 17, 1999 Hello Keith, Saturday, Saturday, October 16, 1999, you wrote: Keith Hello, fellow Bat-lovers. Keith On Friday, October 15, 1999, 9:12:57 PM, Thomas wrote: Keith [snip KR "Mixed language versions" like Thai? I don't understand what you're KR saying here. Dual-language versions. The Thai Windows is actualy Thai/English. Used it for nine years ;-) Keith So the ONLY version of Thai Windows is mixed? Interesting and very bugridden until the 98 version. That one is quite odd as if you install Thai office windows complains about DLL comflicts... I think they took an USA version and added some files/patched the registry up to cause minimal interference.. Keith The envy is just oozing here It gets a bit boring, I used to travel around a lot and Thailand outside Bangkok lacks some proper civilised social life (g) Thai has a small utility from a local university which works fine, KR Small utility that does what? I'd like to know which one you mean. I would also like to know which encoding system you think is more widely used: Chula or KU? I don't have a Thai Windows any more, and when I did, I didn't look what they use. Chula, its in my opinion the only one which works with minimal interference and no problem to the OS. With the proper font it should work on Thai as well. Translation tables very likely arent the solution anyway as some characters are combined... But you have a choice of different fonts, as Thais can be very creative. g depends on how you interprete that... However one thing to remember is that a font looking good to us may be disliked by the locals as difficult to read... I remember some multilanguage word processor and I showed the wife the font used and acc to here it just 'didnt look right'... And that probably goes for many non ABC fonts. (sorry, snipped a LOT!!) Best regards, tracer files attached: none Using theBAT 1.36 mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] NOTE: 1 MAILRUN PER DAY ONLY -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: ! and CJK
Hallo Keith, On Friday, October 15, 1999, 9:41:33 PM, Keith Russell wrote: I don't acutally read or write Chinese. I will check this tomorrow in the office, having my secretary type something. KR Thanks. It will be VERY interesting to see what character set shows up KR in the header if s/he sends a Chinese message. In fact, have her send KR a copy to me. I'll start up NJWin and see what I get. Gee, I forgot that. Will do tomorrow. However, I remember in one message it said: charset=big5 and in a Thai language message, it said: charset=X-UNKNOWN but I think that depends on the mailer. KR Thanks a lot for the reply. I hope the Bat! programmers are following KR this discussion. They are aware of this problem. -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: ! and CJK
Hallo Syafril, On Friday, October 15, 1999, 4:49:25 PM, Syafril Hermansyah wrote: [...] Thanks for the help on how to use Outlook.. actually I use a programme called "The Bat!" ;-) SH What's character set you prefer ? TF A changeable one. Actually, TB ignores the XLAT tables and TF "encoding" option when it comes to double-byte langauges. SH XLAT tables could be the other alternative for composing Asian SH Character Set. The thing is, I have no problem with the Chinese characters. The problem is that regardless of which table I activate in TB!, high ASCII values will always be interpreted as chin.char. So I cannot compose (or even read) European characters. Even if I right-click in a message with umlaute, choose Translation/Central European, a chin.char will be displayed. KR Has anyone at all found a way around these problems? Thomas, I KR noticed you are running Chinese Windows. Do you have similar KR problems? SH Thomas, SH How about you after using 1.36Beta/12 ? TF Now using the released version; no change. SH How if you change "the language" to chinese before composing ? It is *always* Chinese, and I'd like to toggle it off. In the Editor Window, Options/Message Encoding/Central European is overridden by the C-Win default Big5 encoding. -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: ! and CJK
Hallo Keith, On Friday, October 15, 1999, 9:53:08 PM, Keith Russell wrote: On Friday, October 08, 1999, 1:14:28 PM, Syafril Hermansyah wrote: KR [snip] SH In the first time I run 1.36Beta/12, I found that I got new font : SH Andele Mono, MS Hei (Chinese GB_2312), MingLiu (Chinese_BIG5), MS SH Mincho (Japanese) and MS Song (Chinese_GB2312). GB2312 is used on the mainland, Big5 here in Taiwan. KR Right. So what's Andele? It's a font, whereas the others mentioned are encoding systems. I run C-Win98, and it's the Chinese version (meaning all the Windows stuff is written in Chinese, and I have to work a lot from memory). The bilingual version Chin/Engl is instable. KR I didn't even know there was a Chinese/English version. I've never seen it, because everybody told me not to buy it. But I know that there is also a Japanese/English Win98, because I know someone who has the biggest troubles with it. I also readwrite Thai, so that would be really an advantage :-) KR So you read and write Thai, but not Chinese? I'm envious. I never KR got very far with the Thai writing system; it's so inconsistent it KR might as well be logographic, like Chinese ;-). Unlike Chinese, it has actual letters (44 consonants and 12 vowels; and some tone markers and other stuff), so you can read and pronounce a word if you don't know it. It's pretty consistent; which one of the five T's or two N's or so you have to use in which word depends on the origin of the word ... but this is far OT. ;-) Oh, and no surprise: Thai characters display as Chinese characters under C-Win98, like Russian charcters, too. -- Cheers, Thomas mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 using an Intel Celeron 366 Mhz, 128MB RAM -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: ! and CJK
Saturday, October 16, 1999 Hello Keith, Friday, Friday, October 15, 1999, you wrote: Keith Russell Hello, fellow Bat-lovers. Keith Russell On Thursday, October 14, 1999, 8:03:20 PM, tracer wrote: what about using office 2000 with the special addin disks? Supposedly there is japanese so probably Chinese/Korean also exists. I havent seen any of these in the Final condition but they were widely floating around in the far east in the beta stage... Keith Russell Aha! I just pulled out a copy of Beta-2 (which I haven't actually Keith Russell installed and tested). CD 5 and CD 6 are labeled "The Microsoft Office Keith Russell Language Pack: featuring multilingual user interface and proofing Keith Russell tool support for seven languages: German, Arabic, Japanese, Korean, Keith Russell Simplified Chinese, Traditional Chinese.") Sofar I have only seen a final of German, Hebrew and Arabic on the SAME cd... MS seems to be splitting them up in a way that they are unlikely to have more then one language of interest at the same time The only problem I found was that one needed the USA windows to run them as running English ofice 2000 on other European languages could cause corruption... Keith Russell Okay, not a problem for me, since I'm running English Windows. Might Keith Russell be for others, though. Most of the mixed language versions like Thai are unstable and I havent seen any critical updates for ages so presumably those should be targets of hacking attachs(g) and in my experience language mixing here in the far East is a problem (and a large amount of our business in sorting it out again...) Keith Russell Fascinating. So what is your business? Please reply in private if Keith Russell you'd like; I'm very interested. We sell / build / service PC's in South Thailand and most of our customers are the local foreigners who kind of dislike the idea to have Thais inside their systems... Plus that I myself am involved in the USA in a system security company and am at present setting up a second service center in the area where I live... Essentially I plan the technical side but recently due to an inevitable motorbike accident I was for 3 months out of action... Anyway many owners insist in mixing German/English/Thai/japanese or whatever even after we warn them and then we end up charging and cleaning it up again. Till the next mistake Thai has a small utility from a local university which works fine, stay away from Thai master, its better looking but also a master in system corruption. So if you need Thai, very likely a font could be found for theBAT..I havent tried it. (And anyway, I cannot read or write it but I can install chinese/japanese or whatever windows). We have as problem here anyway that hardly anyone wants to pay for software so while I wouldnt mind selling theBAT, with all the free software around its , well, difficult! One main reason I like software like theBAT is that if windows corrupts, and that happens a lot, it doesnt impact my mail/news or whatever. Ok, I have to dig up my serial etc to reregister it again and select the accounts but the number of people I see loosing all their mail/addressbooks in Outlook or what about the free MS 98 downloads (english) for foreign languages which also let you change the menus to for instance japanese.. Only problem besides that I wouldnt know how to use it was that on removing I found my internet to have gone back to English but standard explorer stayed in japanese... Keith Russell I have downloaded all the Korean support. The result was that Internet Keith Russell Explorer and Outlook/Express now work great--but no effect on The Bat, Keith Russell which, as Thomas mentioned, does not appear to pay any attention to Keith Russell the DBCS fonts. correct... But Thai has diferent fonts. Keith Russell Thanks--especially for the Office 2000 suggestion. I'll check it out. Should work, MS says somewhere it is using unicode, no idea if correct or if it changed... Keith Russell Keith Russell Keith Russell mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Best regards, tracer files attached: none Using theBAT 1.36 mail to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] NOTE: 1 MAILRUN PER DAY ONLY -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re[2]: ! and CJK
Hi Keith, on Saturday, October 16, 1999, 10:13:38 AM, Keith Russell wrote: The only problem I found was that one needed the USA windows to run them as running English ofice 2000 on other European languages could cause corruption... Keith Russell Okay, not a problem for me, since I'm running English Windows. Might Keith Russell be for others, though. Most of the mixed language versions like Thai are unstable and I havent seen any critical updates for ages so presumably those should be targets of hacking attachs(g) KR "Mixed language versions" like Thai? I don't understand what you're KR saying here. Dual-language versions. The Thai Windows is actualy Thai/English. Used it for nine years ;-) and in my experience language mixing here in the far East is a problem (and a large amount of our business in sorting it out again...) Keith Russell Fascinating. So what is your business? Please reply in private if Keith Russell you'd like; I'm very interested. We sell / build / service PC's in South Thailand and most of our customers are the local foreigners who kind of dislike the idea to have Thais inside their systems... Plus that I myself am involved in the USA in a system security company and am at present setting up a second service center in the area where I live... That is *very* interesting - whereabouts in Southern Thailand are you? I am going into some software selling in Thailand, with friends in BKK. Target group Thais, though, not foreigners. I just came back from Phuket and might be there again in two weeks or so. Thai has a small utility from a local university which works fine, KR Small utility that does what? I'd like to know which one you mean. I would also like to know which encoding system you think is more widely used: Chula or KU? I don't have a Thai Windows any more, and when I did, I didn't look what they use. One interesting thing: C-win's chinese character set Big5 overrrides the fonts on all applics, and even Thai fonts display as chinese characters. Exception: Chula Word works excellent. It comes with the Thai drivers and for some reason, they override C-Win. I have to find out how they do that, that's our solution for the CJK problem! stay away from Thai master, its better looking but also a master in system corruption. So if you need Thai, very likely a font could be found for theBAT..I havent tried it. (And anyway, I cannot read or write it but I can install chinese/japanese or whatever windows). I have a number of Thai fonts, and my favourite is Angsual. You can download more from Nectec (if you are with Internet Thailand Co.,Ltd.). KR So we have someone with a Spanish surname who lives in Taiwan and KR doesn't read or write Chinese but does read or write Thai, and another KR who lives (or works) in Thailand and doesn't read or write Thai And an American (Englishman/Australian?) who reads and writes Korean... KR This is truly an international community we have here, isn't it? I KR think it's great! (As well as being very envious) ;-) We have as problem here anyway that hardly anyone wants to pay for software so while I wouldnt mind selling theBAT, with all the free software around its , well, difficult! I sold (!) some of the programmes I wrote in Thailand. :-) Keith Russell I have downloaded all the Korean support. The result was that Internet Keith Russell Explorer and Outlook/Express now work great--but no effect on The Bat, Keith Russell which, as Thomas mentioned, does not appear to pay any attention to Keith Russell the DBCS fonts. correct... But Thai has diferent fonts. KR Different from what? Do you mean that they're not DBCS fonts? Or that KR TB will display Thai using various fonts? Or something else? Thai is not a double-byte language as I explained earlier. But you have a choice of different fonts, as Thais can be very creative. g Keith Russell Thanks--especially for the Office 2000 suggestion. I'll check it out. Should work, MS says somewhere it is using unicode, no idea if correct or if it changed... KR Using Unicode for Office 2000? Or for Windows 2000? I think Unicode KR requires OS support risking to sound stupid What is Unicode? An encoding system, similar to ISO-8859-1 or so? -- Best regards, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.36 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build 1998 on a Pentium II/350 MHz. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, click below and send the generated message. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --
