Re: The probes have worked.
On Tuesday, May 18, 2004, 8:54 PM, you wrote: LG Right now the moderators are bidding, arguing, punching and slapping LG to see who will get to delete that subscriber with extreme prejudice. hey, wait, don't we get a vote???BG just walk softly and carry a big trout! LG I only had one dissenting voice among you all who seemed to think our LG attempts at making this list better was an inconvenience. probably another C/R person... and thanks to you guys for talking the time to work it all out, congrats! -- Paul Using The Bat! v2.10.03 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 Apr2004 (4.1.396) (avast! version number) 0421-1 (19.05.2004) (avast! DB version number) 4.1.396 (avast! plugin version number) Current version is 2.10.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The probes have worked.
On 5/19/04, at 8:38 AM, Leif Gregory sent the following: LG I only had one dissenting voice among you all who seemed to think our LG attempts at making this list better was an inconvenience. LG Thanks to all the rest of you who put up with the probes. I think it is great to be on a list where the moderator cares enough to take the steps to remove something like this. Thanks again and no problem from here with the probes. -- Thanks to one and all Jimmie There are two theories about arguing with women Neither one works. Using The Bat! 2.10.03 under w/ BayesIt! 0.5.4 Windows 98 4.10 Build A on a Pentium 133 with 128MB. Current version is 2.10.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The probes have worked.
Hello Jimmie, Wednesday, May 19, 2004, 7:40:49 AM, you wrote: Jimmie I think it is great to be on a list where the moderator cares Jimmie enough to take the steps to remove something like this. Thanks Jimmie again and no problem from here with the probes. As Bartles and James would say, Thanks for your support. grin Actually, the dissenting voice and I had some follow up e-mail and it turned out to be a misunderstanding as he hadn't been following the thread on the probes. Alls well... -- Leif (TB list moderator and fellow end user). Using The Bat! 2.11 Beta/6 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 on a Pentium 4 2GHz with 512MB Current version is 2.10.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The probes have worked.
Hello Leif, I liken it to people who post to lists with the Reading Confirmation Flag set. Nope. I never ask for Reading Confirmation anywhere and I got quite a few mails from RiskFreeMail.com, I am not sure if it was every time I posted to the list though. -- Best regards, Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain) Using The Bat! v2.10.03 Current version is 2.10.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The probes have worked.
Hello MAU, Wednesday, May 19, 2004, 8:27:01 AM, you wrote: MAU Nope. I never ask for Reading Confirmation anywhere and I got MAU quite a few mails from RiskFreeMail.com, I am not sure if it was MAU every time I posted to the list though. Errr. No, I meant I was making an analogy in terms of being something very irritating. On a couple other lists I'm on, some people post with reading confirmations set, and it's irritating like a bad C/R config! grin -- Leif (TB list moderator and fellow end user). Using The Bat! 2.11 Beta/6 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 on a Pentium 4 2GHz with 512MB Current version is 2.10.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The probes have worked.
Hallo Leif, -- Mittwoch, 19. Mai 2004, 02:54:49: We have discovered the true address for the user who subscribed with an improperly configured C/R system. Right now the moderators are bidding, arguing, punching and slapping to see who will get to delete that subscriber with extreme prejudice. I must confess honestly I have no clue what this was all about - never mind. Seems you solved the problem. I only had one dissenting voice among you all who seemed to think our attempts at making this list better was an inconvenience. It was an inconvenience also for me as I got around 6-8 such messages. At the End I really thought it was Spam so have to move it back to 'normal'. Leif, but this inconvenience was for a good cause to keep this ML up and running as it was since I joined in. Thanks to all the rest of you who put up with the probes. I like to take the opportunity to thank you and all the mods for all the work your investing here so as we can enjoy some moments of easy going in a well cultivated environment. What a contrast to the rest of the World of greed, hate and war. -- liebe Grüsse Eddie Current version is 2.10.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The probes have worked.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Mary, On Tue, 18 May 2004 22:49:11 -0500 (11:49 PM here), Mary Bull [MB] wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: MB It would have been more than annoyance for me, if the mail from MB RiskFreeMail had arrived in my Inbox before I read about the MB problem in Marck's first post about it. Someone was extolling the virtues of RiskFreeMail awhile back and I took a look. Afterward I had received a couple of these C/R messages while attempting to contact some subscribers. Because of the background I wasn't caught off guard. MB The wording would have made me think tbudl's moderators had put me MB on hold. Depending on whether that caught me in a brave or a MB cowardly mood, I might have spent a sleepless night before finally MB asking the moderators what I had done wrong, to have my post MB regarded as potential junk. I wouldn't fret about that Mary. You post often enough here and the moderators would more than likely contact you in a more friendly fashion if had done something unwittingly against policy. MB Forewarned, I put the horrid thing in its own junk folder MB temporarily, as I watched the developments here, and eventually I MB had the pleasure of seeing from Leif that everything has turned MB out well and the problem is taken care of. After reading this thread I can begin to appreciate how undesirable these C/R systems can be. While spam is definitely annoying, with BayesIT or the many other solutions that work with The Bat!, C/R simply isn't necessary. In this case, the solution seems worse than the problem. Oh, by the way, Happy Belated Birthday!!! - -- Kevin Coates Dewitt, NY USA Using TB! v2.11 Beta/6 under Windows XP 5.1.2600 SP1 (see kludges for my pgp key) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iD8DBQFAq35rvZSrVDqOXK0RAhYMAKCpT199SiiFRFWFnKObpaag4cOldACfTtSJ GOomdPbC/M5R/Mid4K70x4k= =YdmV -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 2.10.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The probes have worked.
Hello Kevin! On Wednesday, May 19, 2004, 10:33 AM, you wrote, in part: KC After reading this thread I can begin to appreciate how undesirable KC these C/R systems can be. While spam is definitely annoying, with KC BayesIT or the many other solutions that work with The Bat!, C/R KC simply isn't necessary. In this case, the solution seems worse than KC the problem. Agreed. Well, the moderators solved the solution! :) KC Oh, by the way, Happy Belated Birthday!!! Thanks. :) I'm packing all these thoughtful greetings up now and moving on. Gorgeous weather outdoors here, and fine reading on all the TB! lists. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 2.00.6 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.10.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The probes have worked.
Hello Mary, Tuesday, May 18, 2004, 7:18:48 PM, you wrote: Mary I was 100 per cent *for* what you were doing. I hope my small Mary joke about finding my first two probes inedible and putting them Mary in the trash wasn't taken the wrong way!! grin Thanks Tril... If we're not careful, people will begin to think we pay you to say nice things about us! grin -- Leif (TB list moderator and fellow end user). Using The Bat! 2.11 Beta/6 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 on a Pentium 4 2GHz with 512MB Current version is 2.10.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The probes have worked.
Hello Eddie, Wednesday, May 19, 2004, 7:50:07 AM, you wrote: Eddie It was an inconvenience also for me as I got around 6-8 such Eddie messages. At the End I really thought it was Spam so have to Eddie move it back to 'normal'. Leif, but this inconvenience was for Eddie a good cause to keep this ML up and running as it was since I Eddie joined in. Marck and I discussed this a bit (albeit from a different angle), so if we have to do something similar to this in the future, we'll use our real moderators address instead of the one I created for the probe. Eddie I like to take the opportunity to thank you and all the mods Eddie for all the work your investing here so as we can enjoy some Eddie moments of easy going in a well cultivated environment. What a Eddie contrast to the rest of the World of greed, hate and war. That's what we live for! grin -- Leif (TB list moderator and fellow end user). Using The Bat! 2.11 Beta/6 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 on a Pentium 4 2GHz with 512MB Current version is 2.10.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The probes have worked.
Hello Leif! On Wednesday, May 19, 2004, 12:15 PM, you wrote: Mary I was 100 per cent *for* what you were doing. LG grin Thanks Tril... If we're not careful, people will begin to think LG we pay you to say nice things about us! grin If we were on tbot, I would promise, at this point, not to tell them how much. :) Shutting up now--I've already taken too much bandwith with peripheral issues lately. 42. grin -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 2.00.6 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.10.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The probes have worked.
Hello Jimmie, Wednesday, May 19, 2004, 8:40:49 AM, Jimmie Toney wrote: JT I think it is great to be on a list where the moderator cares enough JT to take the steps to remove something like this. Thanks again and no JT problem from here with the probes. Agreed. BTW I like that tagline. :-) -- Best Regards, Greg Strong Using The Bat! v2.11 Beta/6 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1 There are two theories about arguing with women Neither one works. Current version is 2.10.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
The probes have worked.
Hello users, We have discovered the true address for the user who subscribed with an improperly configured C/R system. Right now the moderators are bidding, arguing, punching and slapping to see who will get to delete that subscriber with extreme prejudice. I only had one dissenting voice among you all who seemed to think our attempts at making this list better was an inconvenience. Thanks to all the rest of you who put up with the probes. Cheers, Leif Gregory -- List Moderator (and fellow registered end-user) PCWize Editor / ICQ 216395 / PGP Key ID 0x7CD4926F Web Site http://www.PCWize.com TB FAQ http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/FAQ.html Using The Bat! 2.05 Beta/16 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 on a P4 1.6Ghz OC'd to 2.32Ghz with 512MB. Tagline of the day: A 'language' is a dialect with an army. Current version is 2.10.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The probes have worked.
Hello Leif! On Tuesday, May 18, 2004, 7:54 PM, you wrote: LG We have discovered the true address for the user who subscribed with LG an improperly configured C/R system. Hooray for our persistent, smart moderators! LG Right now the moderators are bidding, arguing, punching and slapping LG to see who will get to delete that subscriber with extreme prejudice. :) LG I only had one dissenting voice among you all who seemed to think our LG attempts at making this list better was an inconvenience. I was 100 per cent *for* what you were doing. I hope my small joke about finding my first two probes inedible and putting them in the trash wasn't taken the wrong way!! LG Thanks to all the rest of you who put up with the probes. It was no burden! More like participating in the solving of a mystery story, albeit passively. This C/R behavior was something that absolutely had to be stopped, IMHO. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 2.00.6 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.10.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The probes have worked.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Leif, On Tue, 18 May 2004 18:54:49 -0600 (8:54 PM here), Leif Gregory [LG] wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: LG We have discovered the true address for the user who subscribed with LG an improperly configured C/R system. I have to ask can you now disclose the purpose of the probes and what the initial problem was? If I missed the original thread can you point me in the right direction? - -- Kevin Coates Dewitt, NY USA Using TB! v2.11 Beta/6 under Windows XP 5.1.2600 SP1 (see kludges for my pgp key) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iD8DBQFAqrucvZSrVDqOXK0RAi5OAJwMbdEYTaso6lIb3ObT4JUysSfAIwCgq4lX JNkX98tbseHKEP+ljfvKb/A= =luyP -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 2.10.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The probes have worked.
Hi Kevin, On Tue, 18 May 2004, at 21:42:49 [GMT -0400] (which was 7:42 PM where I live) you wrote: KC I have to ask can you now disclose the purpose of the probes KC and what the initial problem was? If I missed the original thread KC can you point me in the right direction? A user subscribed using the RiskFreeMail.com Challenge/Response system. Either the system is incapable of, or the user didn't properly configure it to exclude list traffic from its challenges. Basically what happened is when anyone posted to TBUDL, this user's C/R system sent them an e-mail requesting them to respond to the challenge so that their mail would be allowed to this user's inbox. I liken it to people who post to lists with the Reading Confirmation Flag set. At any rate the problem with this particular system is that it doesn't tell you who the real subscriber is, and even though I did respond to the challenge, I was unable to determine who the user was, and hence unable to tell them that their C/R system was causing so much grief. E-mails to RiskFreeMail.com went unanswered / ignored, so our only alternative was to devise a probe system that allowed us to uniquely identify who that subscriber was so we could unsubscribe them. It took a few probes as their system didn't respond to the first set of probes, which we assumed to be a SPAM blocking feature on their end because the user's e-mail address was identified in the subject line. We took a look at the methodology and came up with another method to uniquely identify them via an ID number buried in a rather innocuous subject line. This was the methodology we used to send out the last probe. The probes did what they were designed to do in that it did reveal who the user ultimately was which we unsubscribed. I apologize for the number of probes as we had to work some kinks out of the PHP code and MySQL database. Again, thanks for everyone's patience. We'll keep this tool on hand (now that the bugs are worked out) and use it ever so sparingly if a RiskFreeMail.com user ever subscribes again. -- Cheers, Leif Gregory List Moderator (and fellow registered end-user) PCWize Editor / ICQ 216395 / PGP Key ID 0x7CD4926F Web Site http://www.PCWize.com TB FAQ http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/FAQ.html Using The Bat! 2.05 Beta/16 under Windows 2000 5.0 Build 2195 Service Pack 4 on a P4 1.6Ghz OC'd to 2.32Ghz with 512MB. Tagline of the day: Inspected by #13. Current version is 2.10.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The probes have worked.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi Leif, On Tue, 18 May 2004 20:02:14 -0600 (10:02 PM here), Leif Gregory [LG] wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: KC I have to ask can you now disclose the purpose of the probes KC and what the initial problem was? If I missed the original thread KC can you point me in the right direction? LG A user subscribed using the RiskFreeMail.com Challenge/Response LG system. Either the system is incapable of, or the user didn't LG properly configure it to exclude list traffic from its challenges. Thanks for the background information. I'm not a fan of the C/R philosophy. It seems much too annoying when controlling spam can simply be resolved by having an efficient spam filtering system. Why place the burden of controlling one's spam on their contacts? The few people who I've attempted to e-mail who use this method I give up on. After reading your message, the C/R methodology appears even more annoying than I initially thought. The fact that RiskFreeMail is unresponsive to complaints is particularly troublesome. I can just envision flocks of the bored setting up temporary accounts with the sole purpose of annoying list users and moderators. I'm glad your probes found the culprit and hope there's a way to prevent this type of problem from surfacing again. - -- Kevin Coates Dewitt, NY USA Using TB! v2.11 Beta/6 under Windows XP 5.1.2600 SP1 (see kludges for my pgp key) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iD8DBQFAqsoFvZSrVDqOXK0RAlhAAJ4oUsidf6SE79TuCZ3nU/xgYzrgvACfSGcA nND+VSjLI5mhDOybdAGlrgA= =nVx3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 2.10.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: The probes have worked.
Hello Kevin! On Tuesday, May 18, 2004, 9:44 PM, you wrote, in part: KC Thanks for the background information. I'm not a fan of the C/R KC philosophy. It seems much too annoying when controlling spam can KC simply be resolved by having an efficient spam filtering system. It would have been more than annoyance for me, if the mail from RiskFreeMail had arrived in my Inbox before I read about the problem in Marck's first post about it. The wording would have made me think tbudl's moderators had put me on hold. Depending on whether that caught me in a brave or a cowardly mood, I might have spent a sleepless night before finally asking the moderators what I had done wrong, to have my post regarded as potential junk. Forewarned, I put the horrid thing in its own junk folder temporarily, as I watched the developments here, and eventually I had the pleasure of seeing from Leif that everything has turned out well and the problem is taken care of. -- Best regards, Mary The Bat! 2.00.6 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1 Current version is 2.10.03 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
