Re: Documentation for Realtek 8188* devices
On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 05:49:44PM +0100, Dmitrij D. Czarkoff wrote: Hello! I'm strugling to find any documentation for RTL8188* wireless devices (including those already supported in urtwn driver). I wrote to Realtek, but no responce followed. My problem is that I have a MiniPCI RTL8188CE device in my ThinkPad, and I want to try writing a driver for it. AFAIK RTL8188CE-VAU (supported in urtwn) is essencially RTL8188CE with USB bridge, so having access to documentation urtwn driver was based on would be very helpful. So, if anyone knows where these docs can be found, I would be very greatful. I have this device too and would be happy to help out. Some time ago I started looking into what would be necessary to make it work. I don't think there are any docs. The Linux driver is the only reference I could find. The linux driver has pci/usb shims around a common core, much like some other OpenBSD wireless drivers do (e.g. athn(4)). I believe a good approach would be to write a working PCI device driver based on our USB one (urtwn(4)), and then factor out common code from both into the sys/dev/ic/ directory in a separate step.
Re: Documentation for Realtek 8188* devices
Stefan Sperling said: I don't think there are any docs. The Linux driver is the only reference I could find. The linux driver has pci/usb shims around a common core, much like some other OpenBSD wireless drivers do (e.g. athn(4)). I believe a good approach would be to write a working PCI device driver based on our USB one (urtwn(4)), and then factor out common code from both into the sys/dev/ic/ directory in a separate step. That was my plan, though I hoped there is some documentation from Realtek i could use to avoid looking at Linux driver - I'm afraid Linux people would react badly if their driver is used even as plain reference, without any code copying. -- Dmitrij D. Czarkoff
Re: Documentation for Realtek 8188* devices
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 04:55:23AM +0100, Dmitrij D. Czarkoff wrote: Stefan Sperling said: I don't think there are any docs. The Linux driver is the only reference I could find. The linux driver has pci/usb shims around a common core, much like some other OpenBSD wireless drivers do (e.g. athn(4)). I believe a good approach would be to write a working PCI device driver based on our USB one (urtwn(4)), and then factor out common code from both into the sys/dev/ic/ directory in a separate step. That was my plan, though I hoped there is some documentation from Realtek i could use to avoid looking at Linux driver - I'm afraid Linux people would react badly if their driver is used even as plain reference, without any code copying. No, this is not how copyright works. What you want to learn from looking at their code is not the part that is copyrighted, but the facts, like which registers needs to be set to what value at which time and sequence. Whoever wrote the driver copied those facts out of a datasheet as well. -- Dmitrij D. Czarkoff
Re: Documentation for Realtek 8188* devices
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 04:55:23AM +0100, Dmitrij D. Czarkoff wrote: That was my plan, though I hoped there is some documentation from Realtek i could use to avoid looking at Linux driver - I'm afraid Linux people would react badly if their driver is used even as plain reference, without any code copying. Yes, this needs to be done carefully. But it can and has been done. Keep in mind that there is a difference between copy-pasting code and between writing new code based on information obtained by studying another code base. The degree of that difference might vary between legal systems, and involve questions like whether patents are involved. But after all, what you're really using is publicly available *information*, not code. And some parts of driver code, such as register offsets, are facts, rather than a creative work, and thus aren't even copyrightable as such. In this case, I believe you can safely use the Linux driver as a documentation reference, and use the already working urtwn(4) driver as a code base to start with. Personally, and as a matter of principle, I don't think we should let anyone (such as other open source projects, policy makers, or companies) scare us away from writing new interoperable code for our OS and release it under a free licence. I am not putting up with this bulling shit While writing rtsx(4) I found that Linux developers employed by Realtek were trying to be very helpful, within limits imposed by NDAs they had signed. They actually reviewed my code and found a show-stopper bug. That's not perfect, because we still don't have docs and depend on insiders to get information. I asked for data sheets several times, and those requests were forwarded internally but it looked like their legal team blocked those requests. But it doesn't hurt to ask. And the more people ask the more attention will be brought to the problem.
Re: Documentation for Realtek 8188* devices
Tobias Ulmer said: No, this is not how copyright works. What you want to learn from looking at their code is not the part that is copyrighted, but the facts, like which registers needs to be set to what value at which time and sequence. Whoever wrote the driver copied those facts out of a datasheet as well. I'm not worried about copyright - I'm worried about possible drama and FUD, which inflict due damage regardless of underlying claims' validity. -- Dmitrij D. Czarkoff
Documentation for Realtek 8188* devices
Hello! I'm strugling to find any documentation for RTL8188* wireless devices (including those already supported in urtwn driver). I wrote to Realtek, but no responce followed. My problem is that I have a MiniPCI RTL8188CE device in my ThinkPad, and I want to try writing a driver for it. AFAIK RTL8188CE-VAU (supported in urtwn) is essencially RTL8188CE with USB bridge, so having access to documentation urtwn driver was based on would be very helpful. So, if anyone knows where these docs can be found, I would be very greatful. -- Dmitrij D. Czarkoff
Re: Documentation for Realtek 8188* devices
On Nov 14, 2013 7:30 PM, Dmitrij D. Czarkoff czark...@gmail.com wrote: Hello! I'm strugling to find any documentation for RTL8188* wireless devices (including those already supported in urtwn driver). I wrote to Realtek, but no responce followed. My problem is that I have a MiniPCI RTL8188CE device in my ThinkPad, and I want to try writing a driver for it. AFAIK RTL8188CE-VAU (supported in urtwn) is essencially RTL8188CE with USB bridge, so having access to documentation urtwn driver was based on would be very helpful. So, if anyone knows where these docs can be found, I would be very greatful. -- Dmitrij D. Czarkoff Hi Dmitrij, Wishing you the best finding documentation and receiving a response from Realtek. It is safe to say the latter has become my hobby... Not of preference but of perseverance. Anyway, I've picked up FreeBSD Device Drivers (Kong) which seems like an okay, albeit rough, place to start understanding drivers for OpenBSD (only real driver reference out there besides the tree), though adding support for the PCIe Mini routine of your device shouldn't be the most difficult feat ever, the cousin chip is already supported. Check out how other cards (iwn(4)) attach. I've an RTL8723AS-VAU which is reportedly a non-mass production analog to the 8192CU (also urtwn), except with a BT function. There is even a `urtwn-rtl8723fw' that comes with urtwn but no documentation on those magic numbers `8723'. We're on similar boats/rafts. Please post back your findings. Would be interested in helping you so as to help myself and others. Cheers. Sorry, swore this was sent to misc for non-tech content. Curses.
