Re: Flavor Review Request of UbuntuKylin
On Monday, February 25, 2013 02:56:49 PM Martin Pitt wrote: ... fcitx vs. ibus: * it provides more efficient and intelligent input experience .. compared to what? ibus with sunpinyin/googlepinyin etc.? This still doesn't describe how you want to fix the indicator, control-center, language-selector etc. wrt. input configuration, as they all assume ibus. * it provides skin options and more developing input engines, such as cloud-pinyin and google-pinyin This suggests that fcitx also just uses the various Pinyin input flavours, which ibus wraps as well? ... In Kubuntu we've had requests to ship fcitx as well. We've had feedback that it works better, but it currently supports a narrower range of languages, so I don't think it's suitable as a general Ibus replacement yet. Of course Kylin has a narrow focus, so that's not an issue from their perspective. Scott K -- technical-board mailing list technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/technical-board
Re:Re: Re: Flavor Review Request of UbuntuKylin
Hi Pitt, Thanks for your response. Hello Jack, Jack Yu [2013-02-21 21:26 +0800]: We updated the Wiki page according to your comments. Would you please check it? Thanks. see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuKylin,. Thanks for the updates! Some comments: fcitx vs. ibus: We have done a small-scale investigation at our university, and most students prefer to fcitx. I have created a blueprint at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-s-inputmethod-ibus-or-fcitx. We are investigating the influence and modification needed on input configuration, and we will update soon. * it provides more efficient and intelligent input experience .. compared to what? ibus with sunpinyin/googlepinyin etc.? This still doesn't describe how you want to fix the indicator, control-center, language-selector etc. wrt. input configuration, as they all assume ibus. * it provides skin options and more developing input engines, such as cloud-pinyin and google-pinyin This suggests that fcitx also just uses the various Pinyin input flavours, which ibus wraps as well? System assistant: We want to provide an simple but complete GUI tool for users to view and manage their systems, which should be welcome by most common or nonprofessional users. There are some reasons for this: 1) We want to promote Ubuntu/UbuntuKylin to more and more Chinese users, and most of them are nonprofessional users, also not Linux funs. Hence, we should provide tools helping them managing their Ubuntu/UbuntuKylin easily. 2) Some commercial tools like this, for example, 360 softwares (http://www.360.cn/) on Windows and mobile phone, are already very popular in China, if we want those users switch to Ubuntu/UbuntuKylin, they will always ask for this tool as well. 3) Some softwares are already developed to support a subset of functions we proposed, such as gnome-system-monitor, computer-janitor, and so on, but none of them could satisfy all our requirements. * show processes of system, show task list; show the running information, such as memory, CPU, disk, etc gnome-system-monitor does all that and is installed by default. So perhaps this just reduces to making this more discoverable? * manage tasks that auto-booting, to speed up booting time We once had a GUI for this, but it got removed because too many users wrecked their system with it. With both my TB and Desktop hats on I would not recommend adding an UI to manage upstart jobs, it's a guarantee for people to shoot themselves into the foot. If there are particular bottlenecks during boot, they should be fixed instead of switching off potentially crucial functionality IMHO. * scan and remove garbage files As already discussed, having a GUI like computer-janitor would be highly useful indeed. * mount/unmount/manage mobile devices Not sure what this is about, but for creating, formatting, mounting etc. there is GNOME disks already installed by default. mobile devices should be covered by gvfs mostly (PtP, MtP, UMS). These details don't necessarily all need to go to the main UbuntuKylin page of course. Do you have some subpages for the individual goals, or perhaps LP blueprints/bugs? Yes. I have modified the UbuntuKylin wiki and created a blueprint at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-s-system-assistant. Shall we discuss this on the blueprint? Thanks. Thanks, Martin -- Martin Pitt| http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) -- Regards, Jack Yu NUDT -- technical-board mailing list technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/technical-board
Re: Re: Flavor Review Request of UbuntuKylin
Hello Jack, Jack Yu [2013-02-21 21:26 +0800]: We updated the Wiki page according to your comments. Would you please check it? Thanks. see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuKylin,. Thanks for the updates! Some comments: fcitx vs. ibus: * it provides more efficient and intelligent input experience .. compared to what? ibus with sunpinyin/googlepinyin etc.? This still doesn't describe how you want to fix the indicator, control-center, language-selector etc. wrt. input configuration, as they all assume ibus. * it provides skin options and more developing input engines, such as cloud-pinyin and google-pinyin This suggests that fcitx also just uses the various Pinyin input flavours, which ibus wraps as well? System assistant: * show processes of system, show task list; show the running information, such as memory, CPU, disk, etc gnome-system-monitor does all that and is installed by default. So perhaps this just reduces to making this more discoverable? * manage tasks that auto-booting, to speed up booting time We once had a GUI for this, but it got removed because too many users wrecked their system with it. With both my TB and Desktop hats on I would not recommend adding an UI to manage upstart jobs, it's a guarantee for people to shoot themselves into the foot. If there are particular bottlenecks during boot, they should be fixed instead of switching off potentially crucial functionality IMHO. * scan and remove garbage files As already discussed, having a GUI like computer-janitor would be highly useful indeed. * mount/unmount/manage mobile devices Not sure what this is about, but for creating, formatting, mounting etc. there is GNOME disks already installed by default. mobile devices should be covered by gvfs mostly (PtP, MtP, UMS). These details don't necessarily all need to go to the main UbuntuKylin page of course. Do you have some subpages for the individual goals, or perhaps LP blueprints/bugs? Thanks, Martin -- Martin Pitt| http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- technical-board mailing list technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/technical-board
Re: Flavor Review Request of UbuntuKylin
On 18 February 2013 10:45, Jack Yu yj_1...@163.com wrote: I'm Jack Yu from UbuntuKylin team. We are applying to be an official recognition as a formal member of the Ubuntu family, commencing with UbuntuKylin 13.04. I have added an review request in the Technical Board agenda and you can find the detail of UbuntuKylin at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuKylin. This project is to create a variant of Ubuntu that is more suitable for Chinese users. It began at June of last year when Mark Shuttleworth and Xiangke Liao (the founder of UbuntuKylin project) discussed it at Changsha, China. It is also supported by CCN lab, which includes CSIP of China, Canonical, NUDT of China. Currently, all the five new packages we plan to include in UbuntuKylin 13.04 are in Ubuntu Archive, and we are also building QA team and community team. If you have any questions, please let me know. I'll be glad to answer you. Hi! I'm not a member of the Tech Board but I hope you won't mind me asking one question that I've had since the first I've heard of the Ubuntu Kylin project. How does this differ from Ubuntu Chinese Edition? (Although I guess the fact that I'm having trouble finding an official 12.10 release may indicate that the Canonical-sponsored Ubuntu Chinese Edition is no longer being maintained.) Thanks, Jeremy Bicha -- technical-board mailing list technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/technical-board
Re: Flavor Review Request of UbuntuKylin
On 02/18/2013 01:48 PM, Jeremy Bicha wrote: Hi! I'm not a member of the Tech Board but I hope you won't mind me asking one question that I've had since the first I've heard of the Ubuntu Kylin project. How does this differ from Ubuntu Chinese Edition? (Although I guess the fact that I'm having trouble finding an official 12.10 release may indicate that the Canonical-sponsored Ubuntu Chinese Edition is no longer being maintained.) Hi Jeremy Ubuntu Kylin is the successor to the Project Qin work that became the Ubuntu Chinese Edition. The team behind Kylin are keen to extend Ubuntu to integrate Chinese social media, content streams, payment systems, and the like. We agreed to support this work and collaborate with the team, to ensure that the result can be supportable and installed by OEMs. If this works, we imagine government teams in other countries would want to do the same thing, and our role is to ensure that quality and consistency and security are robust across all flavours of the platform. Mark -- technical-board mailing list technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/technical-board
Re: Flavor Review Request of UbuntuKylin
Hello Jack, all, Jack Yu [2013-02-18 23:45 +0800]: I'm Jack Yu from UbuntuKylin team. We are applying to be an official recognition as a formal member of the Ubuntu family, commencing with UbuntuKylin 13.04. I have added an review request in the Technical Board agenda and you can find the detail of UbuntuKylin at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuKylin. Thanks for taking the (rather inconvenient for you) time to show up at today's Tech Board meeting and discuss some details! The discussion left a few things to clarify and change, please see the meeting log: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoard/TeamReports/13/February Can we follow up on this either by email or on the next meeting on March 4? Thank you! Martin -- Martin Pitt| http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) -- technical-board mailing list technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/technical-board
Re: Flavor Review Request of UbuntuKylin
On Monday, February 18, 2013 01:54:44 PM Mark Shuttleworth wrote: On 02/18/2013 01:48 PM, Jeremy Bicha wrote: Hi! I'm not a member of the Tech Board but I hope you won't mind me asking one question that I've had since the first I've heard of the Ubuntu Kylin project. How does this differ from Ubuntu Chinese Edition? (Although I guess the fact that I'm having trouble finding an official 12.10 release may indicate that the Canonical-sponsored Ubuntu Chinese Edition is no longer being maintained.) Hi Jeremy Ubuntu Kylin is the successor to the Project Qin work that became the Ubuntu Chinese Edition. The team behind Kylin are keen to extend Ubuntu to integrate Chinese social media, content streams, payment systems, and the like. We agreed to support this work and collaborate with the team, to ensure that the result can be supportable and installed by OEMs. If this works, we imagine government teams in other countries would want to do the same thing, and our role is to ensure that quality and consistency and security are robust across all flavours of the platform. What is the relationship between the Chinese government and this project? Canonical can do whatever it wants in it's OEM space, but I don't think an official connection between the Ubuntu project and the Chinese government is in any way appropriate or consistent with Ubuntu values. Scott K -- technical-board mailing list technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/technical-board
Re: Flavor Review Request of UbuntuKylin
On 02/18/2013 02:31 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote: On Monday, February 18, 2013 01:54:44 PM Mark Shuttleworth wrote: On 02/18/2013 01:48 PM, Jeremy Bicha wrote: Hi! I'm not a member of the Tech Board but I hope you won't mind me asking one question that I've had since the first I've heard of the Ubuntu Kylin project. How does this differ from Ubuntu Chinese Edition? (Although I guess the fact that I'm having trouble finding an official 12.10 release may indicate that the Canonical-sponsored Ubuntu Chinese Edition is no longer being maintained.) Hi Jeremy Ubuntu Kylin is the successor to the Project Qin work that became the Ubuntu Chinese Edition. The team behind Kylin are keen to extend Ubuntu to integrate Chinese social media, content streams, payment systems, and the like. We agreed to support this work and collaborate with the team, to ensure that the result can be supportable and installed by OEMs. If this works, we imagine government teams in other countries would want to do the same thing, and our role is to ensure that quality and consistency and security are robust across all flavours of the platform. What is the relationship between the Chinese government and this project? Canonical can do whatever it wants in it's OEM space, but I don't think an official connection between the Ubuntu project and the Chinese government is in any way appropriate or consistent with Ubuntu values. The Chinese government funds some of the teams that work on Kylin. That's no different than the funding of the US government on SE Linux. Our involvement is in part to ensure that the result is consistent with Ubuntu values (as we do in OEM engagements, too). Mark -- technical-board mailing list technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/technical-board
Re: Flavor Review Request of UbuntuKylin
On Monday, February 18, 2013 03:55:35 PM Mark Shuttleworth wrote: On 02/18/2013 03:03 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote: From your initial reply it sounded to me like it might be a formal relationship with an arm of the Chinese government and that would, I believe, be inappropriate. I'm glad to see that's not the case. We do have a formal relationship with the Kylin team. I appreciate the sensitivity, which is why we've coached this team to engage publicly with the Ubuntu community as well as with Canonical (and here they are!). We welcome contributions to free software from all sources, and we should judge contributors by their actions, not perceptions which can easily be incorrect. In this case, the team have been very receptive to transparent practices - they were at UDS, they are here now, and I've no doubt they would appreciate your guidance as a long-standing member of the community as to the best way to improve the platform. As always, expect an onramp, and niggles, but I would ask that we not pre-judge the effort. I am certainly open to free software contributions from any individual I don't care how they are paid (or not) to do the work or where they are from. When you say We have a formal relationship with the Kylin team, who is We, what is the nature of the relationship, and (because it appears to then be relevant), what is this Kylin team? If this new Ubuntu flavor is approved, will it be allowed to be distributed in China without further modification that would compromise it's freeness? Scott K -- technical-board mailing list technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/technical-board
Re: Flavor Review Request of UbuntuKylin
On 02/18/2013 04:10 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote: When you say We have a formal relationship with the Kylin team, who is We, what is the nature of the relationship, and (because it appears to then be relevant), what is this Kylin team? 'We' is Canonical in this context. The relationship is that we've agreed to contribute engineering support that we would previously put into the Chinese Edition, into joint work, which we'll call 'Ubuntu Kylin'. The Kylin team previously was working on their own distro, called Kylin. A Kylin is the lion you'll see outside many Chinese buildings, a symbol of luck and well-being. There is some precedent for this - you'll be aware of a number of Ubuntu derivatives that have government sponsorship of one form of another. If this new Ubuntu flavor is approved, will it be allowed to be distributed in China without further modification that would compromise it's freeness? Yes. There would almost certainly be an OEM version which may include things like WPS, just as the OEM builds of Ubuntu often include codecs, Flash and other consumer-friendly modifications that are unlikely to gather the support of RMS :). Nevertheless, that makes them a more viable contender against Windows and other platforms that would otherwise be shipped. Mark -- technical-board mailing list technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/technical-board
Re: Flavor Review Request of UbuntuKylin
On 02/18/2013 08:05 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote: My concern is more specifically about if the product will, like existing Ubuntu flavors, be designed to protect the privacy and security of the user and that it be shipped in China with the same content as elsewhere in the world. Yes, our commitment is to ensure the integrity of the platform while at the same time facilitating local engagement. Mark -- technical-board mailing list technical-board@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/technical-board
