[Texascavers] "Drone" use in Mexico cave hunting

[Terry Holsinger via Texascavers]

A short PSA for those cavers going/caving in Mexico and looking at 
using a Drone while in country.


Reading a recent page about "Drone laws by country" I noted that the 
recreational use of a drone in Mexico is RESTRICTED for foreigners.


I.E. it is illegal for foreigner to use a drone without a permit.

There is little to no enforcement of this BUT IF the authorities 
decided to, they can legally take your drone and fine/jail you.


Going a little deeper and looking for a bit more information I found 
the following discussion of this matter, here lifted from a drone 
flyers forum:


"The Mexican regulation does not allow giving a permit to fly a 
Foreign Remotely Piloted Aircraft Systems (RPAS) drone in Mexico. This 
prohibition is established in Circular Obligatoria CO AV-23/10 R3 
paragraph 7.2.y). For your information the Circular Obligatoria 
aforementioned establishes the requirements and limitations to operate 
RPAS in Mexican airspace and it is in Spanish only. If you want, you 
could obtain a copy of the Circular Obligatoria in the following link:


http://www.sct.gob.mx/fileadmin/DireccionesGrales/DGAC-archivo/modulo3/co-av-23-10-r3.pdf

A direct question of so it IS illegal for any US citizen to operate a 
drone in Mexico:


His first reply:

"It is correct, it is not possible to grant authorization for pilots 
and US companies to provide services to Drones to Mexico, until there 
is a bilateral agreement where the rules for their acceptance are 
established for both countries."​


I asked if this applied to both commercial and rec fliers; he replied: '

"Is correct, it that applies to both commercial & recreational fliers, 
and so is necessary obtain Bilateral Agreement between FAA and DGAC, 
for established the conditions and limitations for do it."​



BTW these reply's came from this guy:

ng. Pablo Carranza Plata.
Director General AdjuntO de Aviación
DIRECCION GENERAL DE AERONAUTICA CIVIL
Tels. (+52 55) 5723-9300 / 5482-4100 Ext. 18070,
Blvd. Adolfo López Mateos 1990, 2º piso
Col. Los Alpes Tlacopac, Del. Álvaro Obregón,
C.P. 01010, en México, D. F.​"

Original page link:

https://petapixel.com/2017/09/20/heres-map-date-drone-laws-every-country/

forums thread link:

https://phantompilots.com/threads/flying-in-mexico-prohibited-for-americans.104976/
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[Texascavers] 4 foot long light table (set up for 35mm) free to a good home

[Terry Holsinger via Texascavers]

So listing this here before I go the Craigslist route. I have a 4 foot 
long light table set up for 35mm slides.


Free to a good home. Currently in the ATX area.

See photos on my Flickr page here:

https://flic.kr/s/aHsm8R3Nze

Terry H.
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Re: [Texascavers] A question about the rights of cavers

[Terry Holsinger via Texascavers]

Marvin, just my opinion, and only a lawyer and judge could answer a 
specific question about a specific issue/problem/case.


However any data and photos belong to "you" unless you produced them 
"for hire" then they belong to who ever hired you to produce that data.


As for someone suing you, well that can (and does) happen anytime 
someone has the money and the desire to file suit against whoever they 
want and they can do it for anything.
As to if it goes anywhere in CIVIL court is up to your lawyer and the 
judge.
It IS possible for someone to prevent/restrict a "use" of your 
data/photos IF they can prove in court that doing so will "harm" them 
is some way.


That said, IMO for it to get anywhere in court this "other" landowner 
will need to prove that the information is on their property AND was 
generated during their ownership of said property AND that you 
knowingly produced this data after being told to not trespass on that 
property AND that that landowner made a valid effort to secure and 
post their property line in a court accepted manner, fencing and 
signage being the norm AND (this may be the most important to winning 
a case) they will need to prove that your data/information in some way 
"harms" them.


In a case where the landowner does not have access to "their" cave 
either by a natural or artificial entrance they have no way of proving 
you were on their property in the first place.
Nor do they have any way of preventing your egress to/from any cave 
passage under their property.
Yes in Texas the property ownership goes from the sky above to ground 
below (mineral rights being able to be separated from and sold 
separately from the land).
Caves MIGHT be able to be classified with mineral rights IF someone 
wanted to, for example in the case of commercial use of said cave.


If I recall there is (was) a TPWD boundary sign that was placed by 
cavers in one of the side passages in Honey Creek Cave were it goes 
under the park boundary fence. Someone at TPWD had said something to 
the effect that cavers needed to stop "digging" they way they were in 
that passage under the park as that method of "digging" was not 
approved by TWPD (and that is what propmpted the placement of said 
signage).


Terry H.

On 2017-07-22 0:00, Marvin and Lisa via Texascavers wrote:

We have probably all been in this situation: A landowner invites you
explore a cave on his land. You do a few trips with your caving buds.
You survey the cave. After surveying it becomes obvious that the cave
crosses under the property line of the neighboring landowner. Are you
trespassing if you continue to visit the cave and pass under the
neighboring property? Were you trespassing before you were aware that
the cave crossed the property line? Is it only trespassing when the
neighbor becomes aware of the cave and asks you not to traverse his
part of the cave anymore?



A related question: Does the survey data you collected of the
neighbor’s portion of the cave and do the pictures you took of that
area belong to you, or would the neighboring landowner have standing
to sue in court for the rights to that data?



Marvin Miller



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Re: [Texascavers] an idea for self-employment

[Terry Holsinger via Texascavers]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-40597672

On 7/13/2017 11:16 AM, David via Texascavers wrote:

I know a lot of cavers that would like to find a better job.

Here is an idea for a group of cavers to start their very own
enterprise, and get rich.  ( and use the $$ to buy a cave, or go caving
in China ).

Let tourist pay $$$ to stand on the edge of an airport runway ( as
jet-planes are coming in ),

and get blasted off on to a soft foam wall wearing velcro-suits.

All you would need are some helmets, goggles, a few velcro-suits and
a foldable portable wall.

Eventually, you could build an "I-Fly" like room, but mounted sideways,
or build some kind of giant sling-shot.


David Locklear
( not on crack, and not Bockbeer, just stressed-out and stir-crazy bored
out of my mind )

P.S.

The mechanic is pulling my old motor out of my Sequoia this afternoon,
but he still has no idea what killed it. Says it most likely a blown
headgasket, or maybe timing chain slipped off or broke, both, or more.
I have a VIN on the new motor, but not sure if I can get a history of that
without spending $.I should have a free auto-check leftover, if I
can remember
where I put the info from the spring of 2016.




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Re: [Texascavers] Balmorhea caves

[Terry Holsinger via Texascavers]

That would have been Susan Penny (and the pup was Ruby) and she 
currently lives near Ft Davis.


Terry H.

On 2017-05-27 3:41, David via Texascavers wrote:

Around 1995, a group of cavers met at the park and visited 2 caves 7
miles west of there.

Below is a very fuzzy memory:

Attendees were James Loftin, his friend Pearson ??, myself and Oren
Tranbarger and his wife, Barbara and a girl on a motorcycle with a dog
seat.
She was formerly a DFW caver in the 80s and had once had a major
rappelling accident and had worn a body-cast.   I think her name was
Susan.   She was living in Alpine at the time.

We entered a 30 foot pit that we later learned was probably Buckner
Pit.   James tried to make a video.The pit had a promising dig at
the water-table level.   Ask Pearson.

About 2 miles or less west of there, we ridge-walked on a ranch with
several small caves that hit the water table.The bedrock was
flakey breccia, and any diving there looked. dangerous.

We ran out of time and solid leads, but we talked of going back someday.

Maybe there is a trip report somewhere.

It seems all like a dream now.

David Locklear



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[Texascavers] The British are coming.......

[Terry Holsinger via Texascavers]

Some of y'all already know British cavers/cave divers Chris Jewell, 
Laura Trowbridge and Scott Marsh. These three balmy Brits have started 
out an across the continental USoA on a bicycle "race" following the 
TransAmerica Trail.


They started at Yorktown Virginia on May 5th and have a long ride 
ahead of them (4200miles +/-).

I received a message from Laura with the following request:

"We are attempting to cycle the Trans America route starting in the 
east at York town. We are currently 1 week in.
I never thought of it before but if we can find a few cavers on the 
route who may be able to help with accommodation / camping space/ 
washing cycling shorts, etc. It was just a thought but when I 
considered all the cavers who are NSS members I thought there may be a 
few who could help out!"


SO even though their route does not come into Texas, I know there are 
a number of out of state cavers that hang out on this list and they 
also have friends on other lists


SO if y'all know anyone along the route that might be willing to help, 
pass this request along.


Feel free to repost this to other lists as well.

The States along the route are:

Virginia - Kentucky - Missouri - Kansas - Colorado - Wyoming - Montana 
- Idaho - Oregon (4228.5 mi.)


How to get in touch with them?
You can message (and follow/like) them on their Facebook page:

3 Brits on Bikes Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/3britsonbikes/

And if you do not have access to Facebook, then just drop me an email 
to pass along at:


Terry Holsinger tr...@sprynet.com

I am working on getting an usable email for them as well as a 
text-able phone number, but they are spending their days in the saddle


Link to a video slide show that Chris Jewell gave to the UT Grotto 4 
years ago after the return cave diving trip to the bottom of Huautla:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM4vh6zvBpk

A link to the TransAmerica Trail website:
https://www.adventurecycling.org/routes-and-maps/adventure-cycling-route-network/transamerica-trail/

A Google maps link to the "race route":
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t=j==s=web=3=rja=8=0ahUKEwiH8baUgerTAhVC1oMKHUg4AFEQFggwMAI=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fmymaps%2Fviewer%3Fmid%3D1-dwOY5vcb_3diLwHwh9QtCvivVY%26hl%3Den_US=AFQjCNEBzgvyDUSD9y_61jIVzY0JXQMgIQ=LMOI1bI5_5Hdr4LvEphtiQ
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Re: [Texascavers] Texas gypsum caves for sale

[Terry Holsinger via Texascavers]

My bad on that, it's still for sale, from the listing:

"The locals will recognize this property as
Beasley's cave or also known as Walkup's Cave"

"In my opinion the best part of the property is BEASLEY'S CAVE!! This 
cave is awesome! I personally have not made it all the way thru this 
cave but I soon will!! It has the most beautiful rock formations!! You 
have to crawl in some parts, but it is tall enough to walk thru most 
of the caverns. The path does have spots of cold, clean waterbut 
so far the deepest was a short area that was knee deep. I was very 
nervous about bats and spidershowever this cave is super clean!! 
After being in the cave for over an hour I saw very few bats and no 
insects! Students from Texas Tech have explored and studied the cave 
as well as bat experts. I will be posting pictures of the inside of 
the cave later plus I will try to measure how long the cave actually 
it (I have heard rumors it comes out on the Pease River). I will be 
glad to give tours of the cave but only to serious potential buyers 
and only after a disclosure is signed.


This property would be perfect for a family or a group of friends 
wanting a place to have fun, relax or hunt. This would be perfect for 
the business that needs a retreat to send their clients and employees! 
Another thought may be to create a commercial park for people to rent 
out!"



Terry H.
On 5/8/2017 7:47 PM, Terry Holsinger via Texascavers wrote:

Ben, Looks like that one may have been sold, but there is another one
for sale as well

http://www.rollingplainsrealty.com/Land-and-Lot-listings.html

Terry H.

On 5/8/2017 7:12 PM, Louise Power via Texascavers wrote:

how much is this little gem of a section of land w/cave?



--
*From:* Texascavers <texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com> on behalf of
Ben Hutchins via Texascavers <texascavers@texascavers.com>
*Sent:* Monday, May 8, 2017 5:01 PM
*To:* texascavers@texascavers.com
*Cc:* Ben Hutchins
*Subject:* [Texascavers] Texas gypsum caves for sale
This sign was posted in Quanah in Hardeman County.


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Re: [Texascavers] Texas gypsum caves for sale

[Terry Holsinger via Texascavers]

Ben, Looks like that one may have been sold, but there is another one 
for sale as well


http://www.rollingplainsrealty.com/Land-and-Lot-listings.html

Terry H.

On 5/8/2017 7:12 PM, Louise Power via Texascavers wrote:

how much is this little gem of a section of land w/cave?



--
*From:* Texascavers  on behalf of
Ben Hutchins via Texascavers 
*Sent:* Monday, May 8, 2017 5:01 PM
*To:* texascavers@texascavers.com
*Cc:* Ben Hutchins
*Subject:* [Texascavers] Texas gypsum caves for sale
This sign was posted in Quanah in Hardeman County.


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[Texascavers] William Russell and Facebook

[Terry Holsinger via Texascavers]

If you have a "new/recent FACEBOOK friend request from William 
Russell, it is NOT legit. it's a spam account that copied his page and 
is phishing about:


"Have you heard about Workers Compensation Appeals Board (WCAB) and 
Department of Health & Human Service (DHHS)"


The Real William Russell's FB account will read as  william.russell.7771,

the cloned SPAM account is william.russell.39566905

Terry H.
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Re: [Texascavers] craigslist

[Terry Holsinger via Texascavers]

That may well be, but nowhere in the craigslist ad does it say that 
this IS a Cave formation and came from a cave.


"We" do not know if it is a cave formation. Sure it looks like it 
could be, but I have seen just this sort of "rock" in rivers, dry 
stream beds, even empty pastures, and also behind the utility 
trenchers in places like Round Rock subdivisions and road cuts, and 
old quarries.


If y'all feel it's fine to judge/condemn the seller without knowing 
for sure if it is even from a cave, then feel free to get the lynch 
mob together (even if just to tattle on the seller to Craigslist) Gary 
lives only 4 miles away from ya (Barlow Dr to N. Stone St per Google 
Maps).


Terry H.

On 9/19/2016 7:44 AM, George D. Nincehelser via Texascavers wrote:

That's not what the law says.

Regardless of what state they came from, you need documentation.

george.nincehel...@gmail.com



On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 7:27 AM, Terry Holsinger via Texascavers
<texascavers@texascavers.com> wrote:

Unless you can PROVE that this was removed from a TEXAS cave without the
owners permission, there is NO evidence that there is any wrong doing.

Bad taste for selling them maybe, but with out contacting the seller and
asking were they got them from, no sign of wrong doing.

These "formations" MAY have come from a quarry and where the "cave" was is
now just air.

It may have come from a cave the seller owns, or that the seller has the
owners permission to "mine".

It may even have been removed by a "digger" trying to get to more cave
passage.

It may (most likely) also be from a shipment of "specimens" sent to the USoA
for resale from a foreign country (not just some foreign state like
NM,Ok,Ar,...etc.)

Terry H.

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Re: [Texascavers] craigslist

[Terry Holsinger via Texascavers]

Unless you can PROVE that this was removed from a TEXAS cave without 
the owners permission, there is NO evidence that there is any wrong doing.


Bad taste for selling them maybe, but with out contacting the seller 
and asking were they got them from, no sign of wrong doing.


These "formations" MAY have come from a quarry and where the "cave" 
was is now just air.


It may have come from a cave the seller owns, or that the seller has 
the owners permission to "mine".


It may even have been removed by a "digger" trying to get to more cave 
passage.


It may (most likely) also be from a shipment of "specimens" sent to 
the USoA for resale from a foreign country (not just some foreign 
state like NM,Ok,Ar,...etc.)


Terry H.

On 9/19/2016 6:54 AM, Jacqueline Thomas via Texascavers wrote:

But who tells Craigslist this? I checked the box “prohibited” just to get the 
ball rolling but I did not call the seller. His only contact info is a phone 
number, upper left on the page.

On the list of prohibited items:
any good, service, or content that violates the law or legal rights of others

If you want to do anything else, you have to log in. Jacqui


J. LaRue Thomas
jlrtho...@verizon.net



On Sep 19, 2016, at 1:40 AM, George D. Nincehelser via Texascavers 
 wrote:

Sec. 201.042.  SALE OF SPELEOTHEMS.  (a)  A person may not sell or
offer for sale any speleothems in this state, or export them for sale
outside the state, without written permission from the owner of the
cave from which the speleothems were removed.

(b)  A person who violates this section is guilty of a Class A
misdemeanor, unless the person has previously been convicted of
violating this section, in which case the person is guilty of a state
jail felony.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/NR/htm/NR.201.htm

george.nincehel...@gmail.com

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 12:52 AM, Amalia Montoya via Texascavers
 wrote:

Try to contact him, pretending you want to buy it, agreeing on any of his
requests, and get the most information from him and make it public.

Amalia


On Sep 17, 2016 10:56 AM, "Charles Loving via Texascavers"
 wrote:


Never gone there to look for Craig?

On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 8:46 AM, Nico Escamilla via Texascavers
 wrote:


Some ahole on craigslist is selling cave popcorn..
http://austin.craigslist.org/grd/5785241265.html

Nico


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--
Charlie Loving

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[Texascavers] help request in ATX , not cave related ;)

[Terry Holsinger via Texascavers]

Hey anyone in Austin able/willing to help?
I got a request from my friend Karen looking for a host of a 
researcher from Mexico from July 15-23. Woman in her 40s, studying 
feminist history at UT. Needs to be close to a bus line.


Terry H.
tr...@sprynet.com
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Re: [Texascavers] grapevine cave

[Terry Holsinger via Texascavers]

From Tom Brown when I asked about access recently:
I just found out the Grapevine property changed owners in February. I 
should hear from and hopefully meet the new owner soon but have been 
told he will probably keep the relationship I have had with the 
previous owners.


Terry H.

On 7/4/2015 6:56 PM, Joe Ranzau via Texascavers wrote:

Tom Brown has been the/a contact.

Joe


On Jul 4, 2015, at 5:23 PM, Nancy Weaver via Texascavers 
texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:

wanted - a brief description of cave which is in Burnett Ranches west of 
Wimberley.

darkly,

Nancy
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Re: [Texascavers] Alcalde Article

[Terry Holsinger via Texascavers]

The Underground Texas Grotto aka UTG is a fictitious entity BUT is 
also required to keep the UT branding lynch mob away. They have little 
problem using lawyers to get anything that looks/sounds/smells like UT 
to get it removed


On 1/19/2015 6:50 PM, Jim Kennedy via Texascavers wrote:

That version is certainly better. But there is still that nonsense
about the Underground Texas Grotto, which is a fictitious entity.

Mobile email from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2015, at 3:33 PM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers
texascavers@texascavers.com mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:


Here's the editor's most recent email to me:

Dear Heather,

I have made the changes you noted, and I have added a prominent note
up top regarding the salamanders. Allow me to please apologize for
the mistakes in this article, and let me thank you for bringing them
to our attention. We have brought these inaccuracies to the
reporter's attention, and he will be getting a stern talking-to
about checking his facts carefully. We take this very seriously, and
I regret that we let these errors make it through our process.

Would you be so good as to check my changes to make sure we are
fully in the clear?
http://alcalde.texasexes.org/2014/12/notes-from-the-underground/

Thank you again for reaching out to me. I hope this corrects the
mistakes and avoids any kind of complication for you professionally.
If there is any way I can be helpful to you in the future, please
let me know.

Apologetically yours,




On 18 January 2015 at 22:17, Heather Tucek trog...@cavechat.org
mailto:trog...@cavechat.org wrote:

The Editor-in-Chief wrote back to me saying how upset he was to
hear about thus, and that he will be fixing it first thing in
the morning.


-Tucek



Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 18, 2015, at 6:18 PM, Charles Loving via Texascavers
texascavers@texascavers.com
mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:


I wouldn't agree with that at all. They may get the dumbest
thing you said so why say dumb things. Dumb things are what we
like to see on TV or read about. Dumb is good. I love dumb
movies and dumb stories. I thrive on dumb. People forget
everything minutes later so it doesn't matter much unless you
are running for emperor of aome such ad for gettng it right I
always got it right.

On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 10:49 AM, AC via Texascavers
texascavers@texascavers.com
mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:

Heather,

Don't worry about it. The rules for dealing with the media are:

1. They never get it right.

2. If they quote you, they always pick the stupidest thing
you say (or didn't say).

3. Most people forget the article as soon as they read it.

Allan

Sent from my iPhone with fat thumbs

On Jan 18, 2015, at 10:27 AM, Heather Tucek via Texascavers
texascavers@texascavers.com
mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:


Wow. So glad I took him caving. I mean, how else could I
widely spread how ignorant I am about caves. Barton
Springs salamanders in Whirlpool Cave? As if! Never did I
even mention endangered anything!

That's the last time I take a reporter caving. Like I need
any help putting black marks on my name. Sheesh!



-Tucek





On Jan 17, 2015, at 5:47 PM, Sam Young via Texascavers
texascavers@texascavers.com
mailto:texascavers@texascavers.com wrote:


This article appeared in the UT Alumni magazine,
Alcalde.  ... Sam
http://tinyurl.com/qx6mt8b
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