Re: [Texascavers] NSS convention Registration

[C Tiderman via Texascavers]

Ever convention is different. I have been to ones that are better than others, 
but I have never been to a bad convention.
The town is happy we are coming, unlike big towns that don't even notice we are 
there.
What make a convention great is seeing old friends and making new ones.
FYI the TS play on Thursday after the photo salon.
Lets all have a good week Carol

  From: mark gee via Texascavers 
 To: "texascavers@texascavers.com"  
 Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2016 2:36 PM
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] NSS convention Registration
   
I feel the same pains and hope it goes well.markageetxca...@yahoo.com 

On Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:36 PM, Mark Minton via Texascavers 
 wrote:
 

   I have asked the Registration Chairperson to please post the list of
registrants, so far to no avail. That list has traditionally been
published so that people could check who they might know that was coming
as well as that their own registration had been recorded properly.
Unfortunately it seems the organizers of this convention don't seem to
know much about the way NSS Conventions are typically organized. One
wonders whether they have ever been to one before. For example, they
scheduled a band other than the Terminal Syphons to play at the
Wednesday night Campground Party. :-(

Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net

On Tue, July 12, 2016 8:26 pm, C Tiderman via Texascavers wrote:
> Mark,
> You can get a lot of what you are looking for at the web site.
> Unfortunately, there is not a who's coming list.

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Re: [Texascavers] NSS convention Registration

[mark gee via Texascavers]

I feel the same pains and hope it goes well.markageetxca...@yahoo.com 

On Tuesday, July 12, 2016 10:36 PM, Mark Minton via Texascavers 
 wrote:
 

   I have asked the Registration Chairperson to please post the list of
registrants, so far to no avail. That list has traditionally been
published so that people could check who they might know that was coming
as well as that their own registration had been recorded properly.
Unfortunately it seems the organizers of this convention don't seem to
know much about the way NSS Conventions are typically organized. One
wonders whether they have ever been to one before. For example, they
scheduled a band other than the Terminal Syphons to play at the
Wednesday night Campground Party. :-(

Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net

On Tue, July 12, 2016 8:26 pm, C Tiderman via Texascavers wrote:
> Mark,
> You can get a lot of what you are looking for at the web site.
> Unfortunately, there is not a who's coming list.

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Re: [Texascavers] NSS convention Registration

[Mark Minton via Texascavers]

  I have asked the Registration Chairperson to please post the list of
registrants, so far to no avail. That list has traditionally been
published so that people could check who they might know that was coming
as well as that their own registration had been recorded properly.
Unfortunately it seems the organizers of this convention don't seem to
know much about the way NSS Conventions are typically organized. One
wonders whether they have ever been to one before. For example, they
scheduled a band other than the Terminal Syphons to play at the
Wednesday night Campground Party. :-(

Mark Minton
mmin...@caver.net

On Tue, July 12, 2016 8:26 pm, C Tiderman via Texascavers wrote:
> Mark,
> You can get a lot of what you are looking for at the web site.
> Unfortunately, there is not a who's coming list.

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Re: [Texascavers] NSS convention registration

[Lyndon Tiu]

I googled it, yes. Google knows all!


On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 3:00 PM, Webmaster  wrote:

>  How did you find that Visa Card page, Lyndon?  It had no inbound links
> so I assume you must have Googled for it.
>
>  Yes, the program is long dead; I just kept the page because I was proud
> of the card design. It's gone now, except that Google and your browser will
> likely have it cached for a while.
>
>  Alex
>
>  --
> *Alex Sproul*
> *NSS 8086RL/FE*
> *Acting NSS Webmaster*
> *www.caves.org* 
>



-- 
Lyndon Tiu

Re: [Texascavers] NSS convention registration

[Alex Sproul]

Thank you, Joe, for your voice of reason.

The bottom line is that there ain't no free lunch. Every credit card 
transaction 
incurs a fee, or multiple fees, from the processors and banks. Whether it's 
added 
on, or built in, you can be assured you are paying for the convenience of 
credit. 
(And much more than is deserved, I might add.)

The convention was forced to use a third-party registration program due to lack 
of an alternative, and the processor pads the service fee as part of his 
business 
model. I agree that the add-on should be disclosed up front, however.

Alex



On 4 Mar 2014 at 11:48, Joe Ranzau wrote:

From:   Joe Ranzau 
Date sent:  Tue, 4 Mar 2014 11:48:13 -0500
To: Cavers Texas 
Subject:    Re: [Texascavers] NSS convention registration


Folks -

Does this not seem to be a little blown out of proportion?

I'm in complete agreement that all charges should be disclosed. 
However, these functions are volunteer run, often by a small 
overworked core group of people that get little thanks. Are we not 
understanding enough to cut them some slack? An apology and 
clarification along with an updated form, should certainly be in order, 
but charge backs via your banks and other hassles cost your group 
(the NSS) and these volunteers untold problems and money!

The other issue for me is that we are talking about $6-8 bucks, a 
fairly insignificant amount in 2014 to most, including all the 
commentators so far. Every legitimate caving organization in Texas 
that accepts credit card payments or donations has struggled with 
how to handle credit card fees. For the longest time the only option 
was to absorb them, credit card merchant agreements forbid an 
additional fee. Recently, it became legal for some businesses to 
pass along these fees, a great help to level the playing field for small 
businesses and some non-profits. So far, no Texas orgs have added 
a surcharge that I am aware of. Those groups that have added the 
fee are passing on legitimate costs.

Basically, under the old set-up, those paying by cash or check were 
subsidizing the credit card users. With a .50 cent per transaction 
charge plus 4%, the average convention registration of $200 bucks 
via credit would cost at least $8.50 to process. Some agreements 
cost more, others less. I used an average from a couple of years ago 
when I set up a merchant agreement from TCMA. So, they could 
waive the fee but then all registrations would have gone up to absorb 
the cost, resulting in Mixon paying more so that Mark could register 
online.

Why not be nice to each other, push for a correction and stop 
wasting so much effort on $6 - 8 bucks! Maybe, go caving or 
something...

Joe


On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Mixon Bill  wrote:
I have heard from someone who used the paper registration form and 
signed it for credit-card payment that a fee was added when the card was 
charged. (I paid by check, so personally didn't have a problem.) It is not 
only improper but in fact grossly illegal to charge a card more than the 
user 
signed for. I recommend that if that does or has happened to you, you 
contact the credit card company and deny the payment. The convention will 
deserve the resulting hassle, and you can pay by check.

This message might usefully be forwarded to other e-mail lists. -- Mixon

If you can't say something nice, come and sit by me.

You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


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Re: [Texascavers] NSS convention registration

[Jerry]

I agree that the amount being discussed is fairly inconsequential for the vast 
majority of those concerned, but I do expect a degree of professionalism from 
the NSS that would preclude these types of issues. Volunteer or not, those 
folks overseeing the operations of the organization should be aware and 
anticipate these types of problems and either ask questions, or give guidance 
where appropriate. It may be cruel, but volunteers and officers should realize 
that the members of the organization typically adhere to the old saying: "I am 
not impressed by what you did not do."

Jerry.


-Original Message-
From: BBURNETT1 
To: Joe Ranzau ; Cavers Texas 
Sent: Tue, Mar 4, 2014 11:15 am
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] NSS convention registration




Joe: Thanks for the comment.
Rune

 

From: Joe Ranzau 
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2014 10:48 AM
To: Cavers Texas 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] NSS convention registration

 




Folks - 


Does this not seem to be a little blown out of proportion?


I'm in complete agreement that all charges should be disclosed.  However, these 
functions are volunteer run, often by a small overworked core group of people 
that get little thanks.  Are we not understanding enough to cut them some 
slack?  An apology and clarification along with an updated form, should 
certainly be in order, but charge backs via your banks and other hassles cost 
your group (the NSS) and these volunteers untold problems and money!


The other issue for me is that we are talking about $6-8 bucks, a fairly 
insignificant amount in 2014 to most, including all the commentators so far.  
Every legitimate caving organization in Texas that accepts credit card payments 
or donations has struggled with how to handle credit card fees.  For the 
longest time the only option was to absorb them, credit card merchant 
agreements forbid an additional fee.  Recently, it became legal for some 
businesses to pass along these fees, a great help to level the playing field 
for small businesses and some non-profits.  So far, no Texas orgs have added a 
surcharge that I am aware of.  Those groups that have added the fee are passing 
on legitimate costs.


Basically, under the old set-up, those paying by cash or check were subsidizing 
the credit card users.  With a .50 cent per transaction charge plus 4%, the 
average convention registration of $200 bucks via credit would cost at least 
$8.50 to process.  Some agreements cost more, others less.  I used an average 
from a couple of years ago when I set up a merchant agreement from TCMA.  So, 
they could waive the fee but then all registrations would have gone up to 
absorb the cost, resulting in Mixon paying more so that Mark could register 
online.


Why not be nice to each other, push for a correction and stop wasting so much 
effort on $6 - 8 bucks!  Maybe, go caving or something...


Joe




On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Mixon Bill  wrote:

I   have heard from someone who used the paper registration form and signed it 
for   credit-card payment that a fee was added when the card was charged. (I 
paid by   check, so personally didn't have a problem.) It is not only improper 
but in   fact grossly illegal to charge a card more than the user signed for. I 
  recommend that if that does or has happened to you, you contact the credit   
card company and deny the payment. The convention will deserve the resulting   
hassle, and you can pay by check.

This message might usefully be   forwarded to other e-mail lists. --   Mixon

If you can't say   something nice, come and sit by   me.

You may "reply" to   the address this message
came from, but for long-term use,   save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


-
Visit   our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For   additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com



 

Re: [Texascavers] NSS convention registration

[Lyndon Tiu]

You are right.

Pulled this off an August 2013 email.

1) NSS 'Affinity' Visa card rewards program has been terminated by Bank of
America



This item was submitted by Alex Sproul, the NSS Webmaster.

The NSS 'Affinity' Visa card rewards program has been terminated by Bank of
America, effective August 31. The program rewarded the NSS with cash for
each new account and every purchase, but the slow economy and low interest
rates made the program unsustainable for BoA. The Visa accounts will remain
active, but no longer benefit the NSS. You may wish to keep using the
pretty card (though it will be replaced with a standard one when it
expires), or close the account in favor of a rewards card that will benefit
you personally.



On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 11:45 AM, Charles Goldsmith wrote:

> I don't think that is available anymore.   I seem to recall seeing a blurb
> about it months ago.
>
> Sent via C=64 Mobile
>
> On Mar 4, 2014, at 10:25 AM, Lyndon Tiu  wrote:
>
> Goes around, comes around.
>
> http://www.caves.org/NSS%20Visa.shtml
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Joe Ranzau  wrote:
>
>> Folks -
>>
>> Does this not seem to be a little blown out of proportion?
>>
>> I'm in complete agreement that all charges should be disclosed.  However,
>> these functions are volunteer run, often by a small overworked core group
>> of people that get little thanks.  Are we not understanding enough to cut
>> them some slack?  An apology and clarification along with an updated form,
>> should certainly be in order, but charge backs via your banks and other
>> hassles cost your group (the NSS) and these volunteers untold problems and
>> money!
>>
>> The other issue for me is that we are talking about $6-8 bucks, a fairly
>> insignificant amount in 2014 to most, including all the commentators so
>> far.  Every legitimate caving organization in Texas that accepts credit
>> card payments or donations has struggled with how to handle credit card
>> fees.  For the longest time the only option was to absorb them, credit card
>> merchant agreements forbid an additional fee.  Recently, it became legal
>> for some businesses to pass along these fees, a great help to level the
>> playing field for small businesses and some non-profits.  So far, no Texas
>> orgs have added a surcharge that I am aware of.  Those groups that have
>> added the fee are passing on legitimate costs.
>>
>> Basically, under the old set-up, those paying by cash or check were
>> subsidizing the credit card users.  With a .50 cent per transaction charge
>> plus 4%, the average convention registration of $200 bucks via credit would
>> cost at least $8.50 to process.  Some agreements cost more, others less.  I
>> used an average from a couple of years ago when I set up a merchant
>> agreement from TCMA.  So, they could waive the fee but then all
>> registrations would have gone up to absorb the cost, resulting in Mixon
>> paying more so that Mark could register online.
>>
>> Why not be nice to each other, push for a correction and stop wasting so
>> much effort on $6 - 8 bucks!  Maybe, go caving or something...
>>
>> Joe
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Mixon Bill wrote:
>>
>>> I have heard from someone who used the paper registration form and
>>> signed it for credit-card payment that a fee was added when the card was
>>> charged. (I paid by check, so personally didn't have a problem.) It is not
>>> only improper but in fact grossly illegal to charge a card more than the
>>> user signed for. I recommend that if that does or has happened to you, you
>>> contact the credit card company and deny the payment. The convention will
>>> deserve the resulting hassle, and you can pay by check.
>>>
>>> This message might usefully be forwarded to other e-mail lists. -- Mixon
>>> 
>>> If you can't say something nice, come and sit by me.
>>> 
>>> You may "reply" to the address this message
>>> came from, but for long-term use, save:
>>> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
>>> AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Lyndon Tiu
>
>


-- 
Lyndon Tiu

Re: [Texascavers] NSS convention registration

[Charles Goldsmith]

I don't think that is available anymore.   I seem to recall seeing a blurb 
about it months ago. 

Sent via C=64 Mobile

> On Mar 4, 2014, at 10:25 AM, Lyndon Tiu  wrote:
> 
> Goes around, comes around.
> 
> http://www.caves.org/NSS%20Visa.shtml
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Joe Ranzau  wrote:
>> Folks - 
>> 
>> Does this not seem to be a little blown out of proportion?
>> 
>> I'm in complete agreement that all charges should be disclosed.  However, 
>> these functions are volunteer run, often by a small overworked core group of 
>> people that get little thanks.  Are we not understanding enough to cut them 
>> some slack?  An apology and clarification along with an updated form, should 
>> certainly be in order, but charge backs via your banks and other hassles 
>> cost your group (the NSS) and these volunteers untold problems and money!
>> 
>> The other issue for me is that we are talking about $6-8 bucks, a fairly 
>> insignificant amount in 2014 to most, including all the commentators so far. 
>>  Every legitimate caving organization in Texas that accepts credit card 
>> payments or donations has struggled with how to handle credit card fees.  
>> For the longest time the only option was to absorb them, credit card 
>> merchant agreements forbid an additional fee.  Recently, it became legal for 
>> some businesses to pass along these fees, a great help to level the playing 
>> field for small businesses and some non-profits.  So far, no Texas orgs have 
>> added a surcharge that I am aware of.  Those groups that have added the fee 
>> are passing on legitimate costs.
>> 
>> Basically, under the old set-up, those paying by cash or check were 
>> subsidizing the credit card users.  With a .50 cent per transaction charge 
>> plus 4%, the average convention registration of $200 bucks via credit would 
>> cost at least $8.50 to process.  Some agreements cost more, others less.  I 
>> used an average from a couple of years ago when I set up a merchant 
>> agreement from TCMA.  So, they could waive the fee but then all 
>> registrations would have gone up to absorb the cost, resulting in Mixon 
>> paying more so that Mark could register online.
>> 
>> Why not be nice to each other, push for a correction and stop wasting so 
>> much effort on $6 - 8 bucks!  Maybe, go caving or something...
>> 
>> Joe
>> 
>> 
>>> On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Mixon Bill  wrote:
>>> I have heard from someone who used the paper registration form and signed 
>>> it for credit-card payment that a fee was added when the card was charged. 
>>> (I paid by check, so personally didn't have a problem.) It is not only 
>>> improper but in fact grossly illegal to charge a card more than the user 
>>> signed for. I recommend that if that does or has happened to you, you 
>>> contact the credit card company and deny the payment. The convention will 
>>> deserve the resulting hassle, and you can pay by check.
>>> 
>>> This message might usefully be forwarded to other e-mail lists. -- Mixon
>>> 
>>> If you can't say something nice, come and sit by me.
>>> 
>>> You may "reply" to the address this message
>>> came from, but for long-term use, save:
>>> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
>>> AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -
>>> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Lyndon Tiu

RE: [Texascavers] NSS convention registration

[Wm Shrewsbury]

Alex - can we remove this page?

 

Wm

 

From: lyndon@gmail.com [mailto:lyndon@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Lyndon
Tiu
Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2014 12:25 PM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] NSS convention registration

 

Goes around, comes around.

 

http://www.caves.org/NSS%20Visa.shtml

 

On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Joe Ranzau  wrote:

Folks - 

Does this not seem to be a little blown out of proportion?

I'm in complete agreement that all charges should be disclosed.  However,
these functions are volunteer run, often by a small overworked core group of
people that get little thanks.  Are we not understanding enough to cut them
some slack?  An apology and clarification along with an updated form, should
certainly be in order, but charge backs via your banks and other hassles
cost your group (the NSS) and these volunteers untold problems and money!

The other issue for me is that we are talking about $6-8 bucks, a fairly
insignificant amount in 2014 to most, including all the commentators so far.
Every legitimate caving organization in Texas that accepts credit card
payments or donations has struggled with how to handle credit card fees.
For the longest time the only option was to absorb them, credit card
merchant agreements forbid an additional fee.  Recently, it became legal for
some businesses to pass along these fees, a great help to level the playing
field for small businesses and some non-profits.  So far, no Texas orgs have
added a surcharge that I am aware of.  Those groups that have added the fee
are passing on legitimate costs.

Basically, under the old set-up, those paying by cash or check were
subsidizing the credit card users.  With a .50 cent per transaction charge
plus 4%, the average convention registration of $200 bucks via credit would
cost at least $8.50 to process.  Some agreements cost more, others less.  I
used an average from a couple of years ago when I set up a merchant
agreement from TCMA.  So, they could waive the fee but then all
registrations would have gone up to absorb the cost, resulting in Mixon
paying more so that Mark could register online.

Why not be nice to each other, push for a correction and stop wasting so
much effort on $6 - 8 bucks!  Maybe, go caving or something...

Joe

 

On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Mixon Bill  wrote:

I have heard from someone who used the paper registration form and signed it
for credit-card payment that a fee was added when the card was charged. (I
paid by check, so personally didn't have a problem.) It is not only improper
but in fact grossly illegal to charge a card more than the user signed for.
I recommend that if that does or has happened to you, you contact the credit
card company and deny the payment. The convention will deserve the resulting
hassle, and you can pay by check.

This message might usefully be forwarded to other e-mail lists. -- Mixon

If you can't say something nice, come and sit by me.

You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

 





 

-- 
Lyndon Tiu 

RE: [Texascavers] NSS convention registration

[Geary Schindel]

Folks,

Julie Schenck Brown, Carol Tiderman and I have been discussing this behind the 
scenes. I want to make sure that we are not violating our agreement with the 
credit card companies and I've asked that we be consistent in how we handle 
credit cards. I personally don't have a problem paying the fee considering the 
amount and the fact that someone has to pay it - either the card holder and 
everyone else with higher fees or the NSS eats the cost. If the NSS eats the 
fees for 500 folks that may register using credit cards, it amounts to a lot of 
money - about  $3,500. That is sometimes the profit margin of a convention - or 
less.

However, we do need to be consistent and treat all card holders the same - 
whether paying on line or by paper. However, as a general policy, I don't like 
putting my credit card information on a paper copy to be sent through the mail. 
Also, remember that if you do a charge back, you'll have to pay at the door 
when you arrive and you won't get the discount rate.

On another note, this is stacking up to be a wonderful convention.

Thanks for all your comments.

Geary Schindel
NSS AVP

From: Joe Ranzau [mailto:jran...@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2014 10:48 AM
To: Cavers Texas
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] NSS convention registration

Folks -
Does this not seem to be a little blown out of proportion?
I'm in complete agreement that all charges should be disclosed.  However, these 
functions are volunteer run, often by a small overworked core group of people 
that get little thanks.  Are we not understanding enough to cut them some 
slack?  An apology and clarification along with an updated form, should 
certainly be in order, but charge backs via your banks and other hassles cost 
your group (the NSS) and these volunteers untold problems and money!
The other issue for me is that we are talking about $6-8 bucks, a fairly 
insignificant amount in 2014 to most, including all the commentators so far.  
Every legitimate caving organization in Texas that accepts credit card payments 
or donations has struggled with how to handle credit card fees.  For the 
longest time the only option was to absorb them, credit card merchant 
agreements forbid an additional fee.  Recently, it became legal for some 
businesses to pass along these fees, a great help to level the playing field 
for small businesses and some non-profits.  So far, no Texas orgs have added a 
surcharge that I am aware of.  Those groups that have added the fee are passing 
on legitimate costs.
Basically, under the old set-up, those paying by cash or check were subsidizing 
the credit card users.  With a .50 cent per transaction charge plus 4%, the 
average convention registration of $200 bucks via credit would cost at least 
$8.50 to process.  Some agreements cost more, others less.  I used an average 
from a couple of years ago when I set up a merchant agreement from TCMA.  So, 
they could waive the fee but then all registrations would have gone up to 
absorb the cost, resulting in Mixon paying more so that Mark could register 
online.
Why not be nice to each other, push for a correction and stop wasting so much 
effort on $6 - 8 bucks!  Maybe, go caving or something...
Joe

On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Mixon Bill 
mailto:bmixon...@austin.rr.com>> wrote:
I have heard from someone who used the paper registration form and signed it 
for credit-card payment that a fee was added when the card was charged. (I paid 
by check, so personally didn't have a problem.) It is not only improper but in 
fact grossly illegal to charge a card more than the user signed for. I 
recommend that if that does or has happened to you, you contact the credit card 
company and deny the payment. The convention will deserve the resulting hassle, 
and you can pay by check.

This message might usefully be forwarded to other e-mail lists. -- Mixon

If you can't say something nice, come and sit by me.

You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu<mailto:bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu>
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Re: [Texascavers] NSS convention registration

[Lyndon Tiu]

Goes around, comes around.

http://www.caves.org/NSS%20Visa.shtml


On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 10:48 AM, Joe Ranzau  wrote:

> Folks -
>
> Does this not seem to be a little blown out of proportion?
>
> I'm in complete agreement that all charges should be disclosed.  However,
> these functions are volunteer run, often by a small overworked core group
> of people that get little thanks.  Are we not understanding enough to cut
> them some slack?  An apology and clarification along with an updated form,
> should certainly be in order, but charge backs via your banks and other
> hassles cost your group (the NSS) and these volunteers untold problems and
> money!
>
> The other issue for me is that we are talking about $6-8 bucks, a fairly
> insignificant amount in 2014 to most, including all the commentators so
> far.  Every legitimate caving organization in Texas that accepts credit
> card payments or donations has struggled with how to handle credit card
> fees.  For the longest time the only option was to absorb them, credit card
> merchant agreements forbid an additional fee.  Recently, it became legal
> for some businesses to pass along these fees, a great help to level the
> playing field for small businesses and some non-profits.  So far, no Texas
> orgs have added a surcharge that I am aware of.  Those groups that have
> added the fee are passing on legitimate costs.
>
> Basically, under the old set-up, those paying by cash or check were
> subsidizing the credit card users.  With a .50 cent per transaction charge
> plus 4%, the average convention registration of $200 bucks via credit would
> cost at least $8.50 to process.  Some agreements cost more, others less.  I
> used an average from a couple of years ago when I set up a merchant
> agreement from TCMA.  So, they could waive the fee but then all
> registrations would have gone up to absorb the cost, resulting in Mixon
> paying more so that Mark could register online.
>
> Why not be nice to each other, push for a correction and stop wasting so
> much effort on $6 - 8 bucks!  Maybe, go caving or something...
>
> Joe
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Mixon Bill wrote:
>
>> I have heard from someone who used the paper registration form and signed
>> it for credit-card payment that a fee was added when the card was charged.
>> (I paid by check, so personally didn't have a problem.) It is not only
>> improper but in fact grossly illegal to charge a card more than the user
>> signed for. I recommend that if that does or has happened to you, you
>> contact the credit card company and deny the payment. The convention will
>> deserve the resulting hassle, and you can pay by check.
>>
>> This message might usefully be forwarded to other e-mail lists. -- Mixon
>> 
>> If you can't say something nice, come and sit by me.
>> 
>> You may "reply" to the address this message
>> came from, but for long-term use, save:
>> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
>> AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
>>
>>
>> -
>> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
>> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>>
>>
>


-- 
Lyndon Tiu

RE: [Texascavers] NSS convention registration

[Louise Power]

What NSS should have done was raise the registration fee just enough to cover 
the credit card fee. It is, after all, part of the overhead for registration.
 



From: jran...@gmail.com
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 11:48:13 -0500
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] NSS convention registration








Folks - 

Does this not seem to be a little blown out of proportion?

I'm in complete agreement that all charges should be disclosed.  However, these 
functions are volunteer run, often by a small overworked core group of people 
that get little thanks.  Are we not understanding enough to cut them some 
slack?  An apology and clarification along with an updated form, should 
certainly be in order, but charge backs via your banks and other hassles cost 
your group (the NSS) and these volunteers untold problems and money!

The other issue for me is that we are talking about $6-8 bucks, a fairly 
insignificant amount in 2014 to most, including all the commentators so far.  
Every legitimate caving organization in Texas that accepts credit card payments 
or donations has struggled with how to handle credit card fees.  For the 
longest time the only option was to absorb them, credit card merchant 
agreements forbid an additional fee.  Recently, it became legal for some 
businesses to pass along these fees, a great help to level the playing field 
for small businesses and some non-profits.  So far, no Texas orgs have added a 
surcharge that I am aware of.  Those groups that have added the fee are passing 
on legitimate costs.

Basically, under the old set-up, those paying by cash or check were subsidizing 
the credit card users.  With a .50 cent per transaction charge plus 4%, the 
average convention registration of $200 bucks via credit would cost at least 
$8.50 to process.  Some agreements cost more, others less.  I used an average 
from a couple of years ago when I set up a merchant agreement from TCMA.  So, 
they could waive the fee but then all registrations would have gone up to 
absorb the cost, resulting in Mixon paying more so that Mark could register 
online.

Why not be nice to each other, push for a correction and stop wasting so much 
effort on $6 - 8 bucks!  Maybe, go caving or something...

Joe




On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Mixon Bill  wrote:

I have heard from someone who used the paper registration form and signed it 
for credit-card payment that a fee was added when the card was charged. (I paid 
by check, so personally didn't have a problem.) It is not only improper but in 
fact grossly illegal to charge a card more than the user signed for. I 
recommend that if that does or has happened to you, you contact the credit card 
company and deny the payment. The convention will deserve the resulting hassle, 
and you can pay by check.

This message might usefully be forwarded to other e-mail lists. -- Mixon

If you can't say something nice, come and sit by me.

You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com


  

Re: [Texascavers] NSS convention registration

[BBURNETT1]

Joe: Thanks for the comment.
Rune

From: Joe Ranzau 
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2014 10:48 AM
To: Cavers Texas 
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] NSS convention registration

Folks - 


Does this not seem to be a little blown out of proportion?


I'm in complete agreement that all charges should be disclosed.  However, these 
functions are volunteer run, often by a small overworked core group of people 
that get little thanks.  Are we not understanding enough to cut them some 
slack?  An apology and clarification along with an updated form, should 
certainly be in order, but charge backs via your banks and other hassles cost 
your group (the NSS) and these volunteers untold problems and money!


The other issue for me is that we are talking about $6-8 bucks, a fairly 
insignificant amount in 2014 to most, including all the commentators so far.  
Every legitimate caving organization in Texas that accepts credit card payments 
or donations has struggled with how to handle credit card fees.  For the 
longest time the only option was to absorb them, credit card merchant 
agreements forbid an additional fee.  Recently, it became legal for some 
businesses to pass along these fees, a great help to level the playing field 
for small businesses and some non-profits.  So far, no Texas orgs have added a 
surcharge that I am aware of.  Those groups that have added the fee are passing 
on legitimate costs.


Basically, under the old set-up, those paying by cash or check were subsidizing 
the credit card users.  With a .50 cent per transaction charge plus 4%, the 
average convention registration of $200 bucks via credit would cost at least 
$8.50 to process.  Some agreements cost more, others less.  I used an average 
from a couple of years ago when I set up a merchant agreement from TCMA.  So, 
they could waive the fee but then all registrations would have gone up to 
absorb the cost, resulting in Mixon paying more so that Mark could register 
online.


Why not be nice to each other, push for a correction and stop wasting so much 
effort on $6 - 8 bucks!  Maybe, go caving or something...


Joe




On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Mixon Bill  wrote:

  I have heard from someone who used the paper registration form and signed it 
for credit-card payment that a fee was added when the card was charged. (I paid 
by check, so personally didn't have a problem.) It is not only improper but in 
fact grossly illegal to charge a card more than the user signed for. I 
recommend that if that does or has happened to you, you contact the credit card 
company and deny the payment. The convention will deserve the resulting hassle, 
and you can pay by check.

  This message might usefully be forwarded to other e-mail lists. -- Mixon
  
  If you can't say something nice, come and sit by me.
  
  You may "reply" to the address this message
  came from, but for long-term use, save:
  Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
  AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


  -
  Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
  To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
  For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] NSS convention registration

[Joe Ranzau]

Folks -

Does this not seem to be a little blown out of proportion?

I'm in complete agreement that all charges should be disclosed.  However,
these functions are volunteer run, often by a small overworked core group
of people that get little thanks.  Are we not understanding enough to cut
them some slack?  An apology and clarification along with an updated form,
should certainly be in order, but charge backs via your banks and other
hassles cost your group (the NSS) and these volunteers untold problems and
money!

The other issue for me is that we are talking about $6-8 bucks, a fairly
insignificant amount in 2014 to most, including all the commentators so
far.  Every legitimate caving organization in Texas that accepts credit
card payments or donations has struggled with how to handle credit card
fees.  For the longest time the only option was to absorb them, credit card
merchant agreements forbid an additional fee.  Recently, it became legal
for some businesses to pass along these fees, a great help to level the
playing field for small businesses and some non-profits.  So far, no Texas
orgs have added a surcharge that I am aware of.  Those groups that have
added the fee are passing on legitimate costs.

Basically, under the old set-up, those paying by cash or check were
subsidizing the credit card users.  With a .50 cent per transaction charge
plus 4%, the average convention registration of $200 bucks via credit would
cost at least $8.50 to process.  Some agreements cost more, others less.  I
used an average from a couple of years ago when I set up a merchant
agreement from TCMA.  So, they could waive the fee but then all
registrations would have gone up to absorb the cost, resulting in Mixon
paying more so that Mark could register online.

Why not be nice to each other, push for a correction and stop wasting so
much effort on $6 - 8 bucks!  Maybe, go caving or something...

Joe


On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Mixon Bill  wrote:

> I have heard from someone who used the paper registration form and signed
> it for credit-card payment that a fee was added when the card was charged.
> (I paid by check, so personally didn't have a problem.) It is not only
> improper but in fact grossly illegal to charge a card more than the user
> signed for. I recommend that if that does or has happened to you, you
> contact the credit card company and deny the payment. The convention will
> deserve the resulting hassle, and you can pay by check.
>
> This message might usefully be forwarded to other e-mail lists. -- Mixon
> 
> If you can't say something nice, come and sit by me.
> 
> You may "reply" to the address this message
> came from, but for long-term use, save:
> Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
> AMCS: a...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org
>
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>