Re: [Thunar-dev] Problem with thumbnails
On Feb 17, 2008 12:24 PM, Erlend Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Erik Harrison wrote: On Feb 17, 2008 6:37 AM, Erlend Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thunar use the generic icon for that mime type. Or, the thumbnailer should gracefully fail when overwhelmed, and let Well the problem is how to tell when you're overwhelmed? Difference people have difference ideas of when a thumbnailer should and shouldn't run... I think most people would say don't run if it's going to use swap space, I would say don't run if it's going to adversely affect the apparent responsiveness of the operating environment. If you're running a remote filesystem (fusesmb / sshfs) then the file-sizes which are safe to thumbnail change dramatically. Which is why I wasn't arguing for a constant file size. I figured a simple timeout would scale nicely. Actually that would work quite well - a setting in thunar thumbnail only files which take under 5 seconds. In order to handle the networked filesystems thunar would remember the size and mimetype of the file, and not thumbnail other files in that directory (incl. subdirectories) which it believes will take too long. Two problems: 1. if you try and load X MB into machine RAM when only Y MB is available (YX) you're still going to get a crash - timeouts don't save you here. 2. with the above logic, if a machine is under a lot of load it might wrongly assume that a perfectly reasonable file is taking too long to thumbnail. Well, it is taking too long, and under that load the file is unreasonable. The whole point is to have a simple system that scales well, and I think system load should be taken into account. Of course, someone has to implement this or the whole discussion is moot. What's Nautilus's solution here? We use Nautilus thumbnailers if GConf is available, we ought to look and see how they handle this problem - do the individual thumbnailers take care of it, or does Nautilus kill thumbnailers that misbehave? Nautilus just does it by filesize, and they never thumbnail files in remote filesystems. Erlend ___ Thunar-dev mailing list Thunar-dev@xfce.org http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/thunar-dev -- Erik Look at me still talking when there is Science to do ___ Thunar-dev mailing list Thunar-dev@xfce.org http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/thunar-dev
Re: [Thunar-dev] Problem with thumbnails
On Sun, Feb 17, 2008 at 12:16:50 -0500, Erik Harrison wrote: On Feb 17, 2008 6:37 AM, Erlend Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hehe, high-performance and large images? It is possible to load and store thumbnails inside the EXIF data AFAIK. I imagine large JPEGs will sometimes have that. The thumbnailer could check for that and fail otherwise. Most images produced by a digital camera will have a thumbnail stored in the exiv data (it's the same thumbnail the camera uses to display the image on the LCD). Thunar already extracts those (this came in 0.8.0, and gives very good performance). Or, the thumbnailer should gracefully fail when overwhelmed, and let Thunar use the generic icon for that mime type. Well the problem is how to tell when you're overwhelmed? Difference people have difference ideas of when a thumbnailer should and shouldn't run... I think most people would say don't run if it's going to use swap space, I would say don't run if it's going to adversely affect the apparent responsiveness of the operating environment. If you're running a remote filesystem (fusesmb / sshfs) then the file-sizes which are safe to thumbnail change dramatically. Which is why I wasn't arguing for a constant file size. I figured a simple timeout would scale nicely. Thunar could also set a memory limit to the thumbnailer process (via ulimit or similar), so that the thumbnailer process is killed if it starts eating too much memory. Thunar woulld have to find out the hosts memory size to calculate a sensible limit, though. IMHO a fixed value would not work well here to satify all users. Another idea is a config item where the user can set a maximum size for the thumbnailer process. Regards, Tino ___ Thunar-dev mailing list Thunar-dev@xfce.org http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/thunar-dev
Re: [Thunar-dev] Problem with thumbnails
Tino Keitel wrote: Well the problem is how to tell when you're overwhelmed? Difference people have difference ideas of when a thumbnailer should and shouldn't run... I think most people would say don't run if it's going to use swap space, I would say don't run if it's going to adversely affect the apparent responsiveness of the operating environment. If you're running a remote filesystem (fusesmb / sshfs) then the file-sizes which are safe to thumbnail change dramatically. Which is why I wasn't arguing for a constant file size. I figured a simple timeout would scale nicely. Thunar could also set a memory limit to the thumbnailer process (via ulimit or similar), so that the thumbnailer process is killed if it starts eating too much memory. Thunar woulld have to find out the hosts memory size to calculate a sensible limit, though. IMHO a fixed value would not work well here to satify all users. Another idea is a config item where the user can set a maximum size for the thumbnailer process. Would ulimit be the best way of doing this? ___ Thunar-dev mailing list Thunar-dev@xfce.org http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/thunar-dev
Re: [Thunar-dev] Problem with thumbnails
I agree with Erik.. Either that or if someone knows of or can write a really high-performance thumbnailer for large images... but I dunno about that one. ;-) - Cory Christison Erik Harrison wrote: On Feb 15, 2008 4:24 PM, Erlend Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Radomir Dopieralski wrote: Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 06:16:09PM +0100: Hi Sorry if this has already been discussed, I'm knew to this list and just tried searching with google. When I select a big image file in thunar (like a 100-300MB tiff) the computer hangs. Looking at top output I see thunar-vfs-pixb... using more than available memory (let say 100MB). How can I fix this? Is it possible to set a size limit or to blacklist those files? I thought about inserting an if just after the call to fstat in exo_gdk_pixbuf_new_from_file_at_max_size in file exo-gtk-pixbuf-extensions.c. Maybe a better solution is to add a parameter specifying the max file size to the function. For now I put big files in a separate directory and open them using the command line. According to the thumbnail storage standard on http://freedesktop.org, you can prevent generation of thumbnails for some files by making matching files in the "failed" directory. That is true. It's not a real solution though - this is a bug. The trouble with having a global size limit in Thunar is that some files are meant to be big - like video files (where just one frame will be extracted for the thumbnail). The limits really have to be decided on a case-by-case basis for each mimetype. Or, the thumbnailer should gracefully fail when overwhelmed, and let Thunar use the generic icon for that mime type. Erlend ___ Thunar-dev mailing list Thunar-dev@xfce.org http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/thunar-dev ___ Thunar-dev mailing list Thunar-dev@xfce.org http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/thunar-dev
Re: [Thunar-dev] Problem with thumbnails
On Feb 17, 2008 9:54 AM, Cory Christison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree with Erik.. Either that or if someone knows of or can write a really high-performance thumbnailer for large images... but I dunno about that one. ;-) - Cory Christison Hehe, high-performance and large images? It is possible to load and store thumbnails inside the EXIF data AFAIK. I imagine large JPEGs will sometimes have that. The thumbnailer could check for that and fail otherwise. - Stephan ___ Thunar-dev mailing list Thunar-dev@xfce.org http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/thunar-dev
Re: [Thunar-dev] Problem with thumbnails
Hehe, high-performance and large images? It is possible to load and store thumbnails inside the EXIF data AFAIK. I imagine large JPEGs will sometimes have that. The thumbnailer could check for that and fail otherwise. Most images produced by a digital camera will have a thumbnail stored in the exiv data (it's the same thumbnail the camera uses to display the image on the LCD). Thunar already extracts those (this came in 0.8.0, and gives very good performance). Or, the thumbnailer should gracefully fail when overwhelmed, and let Thunar use the generic icon for that mime type. Well the problem is how to tell when you're overwhelmed? Difference people have difference ideas of when a thumbnailer should and shouldn't run... I think most people would say don't run if it's going to use swap space, I would say don't run if it's going to adversely affect the apparent responsiveness of the operating environment. If you're running a remote filesystem (fusesmb / sshfs) then the file-sizes which are safe to thumbnail change dramatically. One or two of the Thunar-thumbnailers (the goodies.xfce.org ones) will refuse to run on large files. For example the xmgrace thumbnailer (.agr files) won't run on files 50MB, because it would actually have to load all of that into memory. But as I said before you cannot apply the same logic to video files (they aren't loaded into memory). Having thumbnailers try and run on large files just to fail is bad... for the 3 seconds when it's loading the performance of the user's computer will be affected. Erlend ___ Thunar-dev mailing list Thunar-dev@xfce.org http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/thunar-dev
Re: [Thunar-dev] Problem with thumbnails
On Feb 17, 2008 6:37 AM, Erlend Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hehe, high-performance and large images? It is possible to load and store thumbnails inside the EXIF data AFAIK. I imagine large JPEGs will sometimes have that. The thumbnailer could check for that and fail otherwise. Most images produced by a digital camera will have a thumbnail stored in the exiv data (it's the same thumbnail the camera uses to display the image on the LCD). Thunar already extracts those (this came in 0.8.0, and gives very good performance). Or, the thumbnailer should gracefully fail when overwhelmed, and let Thunar use the generic icon for that mime type. Well the problem is how to tell when you're overwhelmed? Difference people have difference ideas of when a thumbnailer should and shouldn't run... I think most people would say don't run if it's going to use swap space, I would say don't run if it's going to adversely affect the apparent responsiveness of the operating environment. If you're running a remote filesystem (fusesmb / sshfs) then the file-sizes which are safe to thumbnail change dramatically. Which is why I wasn't arguing for a constant file size. I figured a simple timeout would scale nicely. What's Nautilus's solution here? We use Nautilus thumbnailers if GConf is available, we ought to look and see how they handle this problem - do the individual thumbnailers take care of it, or does Nautilus kill thumbnailers that misbehave? One or two of the Thunar-thumbnailers (the goodies.xfce.org ones) will refuse to run on large files. For example the xmgrace thumbnailer (.agr files) won't run on files 50MB, because it would actually have to load all of that into memory. But as I said before you cannot apply the same logic to video files (they aren't loaded into memory). Having thumbnailers try and run on large files just to fail is bad... for the 3 seconds when it's loading the performance of the user's computer will be affected. Erlend ___ Thunar-dev mailing list Thunar-dev@xfce.org http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/thunar-dev -- Erik Look at me still talking when there is Science to do ___ Thunar-dev mailing list Thunar-dev@xfce.org http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/thunar-dev
Re: [Thunar-dev] Problem with thumbnails
Erik Harrison wrote: On Feb 17, 2008 6:37 AM, Erlend Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thunar use the generic icon for that mime type. Or, the thumbnailer should gracefully fail when overwhelmed, and let Well the problem is how to tell when you're overwhelmed? Difference people have difference ideas of when a thumbnailer should and shouldn't run... I think most people would say don't run if it's going to use swap space, I would say don't run if it's going to adversely affect the apparent responsiveness of the operating environment. If you're running a remote filesystem (fusesmb / sshfs) then the file-sizes which are safe to thumbnail change dramatically. Which is why I wasn't arguing for a constant file size. I figured a simple timeout would scale nicely. Actually that would work quite well - a setting in thunar thumbnail only files which take under 5 seconds. In order to handle the networked filesystems thunar would remember the size and mimetype of the file, and not thumbnail other files in that directory (incl. subdirectories) which it believes will take too long. Two problems: 1. if you try and load X MB into machine RAM when only Y MB is available (YX) you're still going to get a crash - timeouts don't save you here. 2. with the above logic, if a machine is under a lot of load it might wrongly assume that a perfectly reasonable file is taking too long to thumbnail. What's Nautilus's solution here? We use Nautilus thumbnailers if GConf is available, we ought to look and see how they handle this problem - do the individual thumbnailers take care of it, or does Nautilus kill thumbnailers that misbehave? Nautilus just does it by filesize, and they never thumbnail files in remote filesystems. Erlend ___ Thunar-dev mailing list Thunar-dev@xfce.org http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/thunar-dev
Re: [Thunar-dev] Problem with thumbnails
On Feb 15, 2008 4:24 PM, Erlend Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Radomir Dopieralski wrote: Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 06:16:09PM +0100: Hi Sorry if this has already been discussed, I'm knew to this list and just tried searching with google. When I select a big image file in thunar (like a 100-300MB tiff) the computer hangs. Looking at top output I see thunar-vfs-pixb... using more than available memory (let say 100MB). How can I fix this? Is it possible to set a size limit or to blacklist those files? I thought about inserting an if just after the call to fstat in exo_gdk_pixbuf_new_from_file_at_max_size in file exo-gtk-pixbuf-extensions.c. Maybe a better solution is to add a parameter specifying the max file size to the function. For now I put big files in a separate directory and open them using the command line. According to the thumbnail storage standard on http://freedesktop.org, you can prevent generation of thumbnails for some files by making matching files in the failed directory. That is true. It's not a real solution though - this is a bug. The trouble with having a global size limit in Thunar is that some files are meant to be big - like video files (where just one frame will be extracted for the thumbnail). The limits really have to be decided on a case-by-case basis for each mimetype. Or, the thumbnailer should gracefully fail when overwhelmed, and let Thunar use the generic icon for that mime type. Erlend ___ Thunar-dev mailing list Thunar-dev@xfce.org http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/thunar-dev -- Erik Look at me still talking when there is Science to do ___ Thunar-dev mailing list Thunar-dev@xfce.org http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/thunar-dev
[Thunar-dev] Problem with thumbnails
Hi Sorry if this has already been discussed, I'm knew to this list and just tried searching with google. When I select a big image file in thunar (like a 100-300MB tiff) the computer hangs. Looking at top output I see thunar-vfs-pixb... using more than available memory (let say 100MB). How can I fix this? Is it possible to set a size limit or to blacklist those files? I thought about inserting an if just after the call to fstat in exo_gdk_pixbuf_new_from_file_at_max_size in file exo-gtk-pixbuf-extensions.c. Maybe a better solution is to add a parameter specifying the max file size to the function. For now I put big files in a separate directory and open them using the command line. Thanks Andrea ___ Thunar-dev mailing list Thunar-dev@xfce.org http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/thunar-dev
Re: [Thunar-dev] Problem with thumbnails
Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 06:16:09PM +0100: Hi Sorry if this has already been discussed, I'm knew to this list and just tried searching with google. When I select a big image file in thunar (like a 100-300MB tiff) the computer hangs. Looking at top output I see thunar-vfs-pixb... using more than available memory (let say 100MB). How can I fix this? Is it possible to set a size limit or to blacklist those files? I thought about inserting an if just after the call to fstat in exo_gdk_pixbuf_new_from_file_at_max_size in file exo-gtk-pixbuf-extensions.c. Maybe a better solution is to add a parameter specifying the max file size to the function. For now I put big files in a separate directory and open them using the command line. According to the thumbnail storage standard on http://freedesktop.org, you can prevent generation of thumbnails for some files by making matching files in the failed directory. -- Radomir `The Sheep' Dopieralski http://sheep.art.pl Beauty is the ultimate defense against complexity. -– David Gelernter ___ Thunar-dev mailing list Thunar-dev@xfce.org http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/thunar-dev
