[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[Jed Carty]

Bob on node is a normal plug in the same as any other node plug in when you 
install it, so I think listing it like that makes sense.

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[tw5] Re: How do I export/concatenate en masse Tidddlers to MS Word?

[Michael Wiktowy]

To answer your "small tutorial" question:
To OR (Union) lists. Just add a separate closed square bracket filters 
separated by a space ... e.g. 
{{{[tag[science]] [tag[time]]||separator_template}}}

To AND (Intersection) lists. Just concatenate the filter terms within the 
closed square brackets ... e.g. 
{{{[tag[science]tag[time]]||separator_template}}}

Examples of OR and AND lists are buried in the TiddlyWiki help files for 
Filters somewhere but I always have a hard time searching for them until I 
find them and it seems obvious where they are : ]

/Mike

On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 9:46:56 AM UTC-4, David Lewis wrote:
>
> Thanks. Sounds like the secret I was missing was to create a single 
> tiddler, not a bunch of tiddlers.
>
> If you don't mind -- as a small tutorial, could you explain or show how to 
> create that single tiddler, say for the tag "science", or better yet, the 
> tag query, "science" OR "time", with a separator of "::" 
> between concatenated retrieved tiddlers. I'll worry about export later.
>
> Thanks. --David
>
> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 9:18:43 AM UTC-4, TonyM wrote:
>>
>> A Shorthand answer,
>>
>> Just ask for more details. 
>>
>> If you create a single tiddler, that displays what you want to appear in 
>> your document, perhaps using a list of tiddlers with a given tag, sorted by 
>> an appropriate field or using drag and drop to set the order, you can then 
>> print the tiddler to PDF and open that in Word will be a quick answer.
>>  
>> Some export as HTML and do other tricks see a recent discussion on this 
>> here 
>> 
>>
>> Regards
>> Tony
>>
>> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 11:06:16 PM UTC+10, David Lewis wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm evaluating TW as a medium for taking research notes -- text, links 
>>> -- and then using them in the writing process. How would I accomplish the 
>>> following task:
>>>
>>>- Choose a set of tiddlers based on a tag or logical combination  of 
>>>tags, plus manual deletions
>>>- Export them all *en masse* into a MS Word document, concatenated, 
>>>with some kind of separator between them
>>>
>>> I'm still working through learning how to use TW, and I can't see an 
>>> obvious way to do this without copy/pasting each target tiddler 
>>> individually, which would be a big nuisance. It would be OK to export to 
>>> concatenated text and then manually transfer to Word.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Regarding TiddlySpot

file-or-folder: "file"  
mobile-first: N/A (i.e. someone might upload a mobile friendly TW someday)
multi-user: no
os: any
portable: N/A (its an online service)
versioning: no
works-offline: no

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[Mat]

@TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> I just notice for TiddlyDesktop under multi-user you entered "N/A". I 
> think its actually "No".
>

corrected, thanx

<:-)

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[Lost Admin]

@Mat

Based on how I'm seeing the other options filled in, Webdav should be 
"Any-standard-OS". Apparently Apache HTTPD is even available on Android 
(https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.esminis.server.apache=en_US)!

I'll let you know when I get the instructions for FreeBSD/Windows/Linux 
done. :-)

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Per-tiddler versioning. Got it.

On Tuesday, 29 May 2018 20:12:26 UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
> The way it's worded, it's looking for per-tiddler versioning. Which is 
> pretty much only Noteself. There is another category for backups.
>
> -- Mark
>
> On Tuesday, May 29, 2018 at 10:41:25 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>>
>> Mat "versioning" is slightly ambiguous in application.
>>
>> Usually it refers to a system that has an  "inbuilt method of recovery" 
>> ... i.e. the interface itself lets you go back. NoteSelf (or, rather, 
>> CouchDB) has that. But TiddlyDesktop and other saving mechanisms have 
>> Redundant Backup, which is similar, but no interface for.
>>
>> In some ways "Redundant Backup" might be more accurate to what goes on in 
>> TW. For instance TiddyDesktop doesn't do version control, but it does do 
>> redundant backup.
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

The way it's worded, it's looking for per-tiddler versioning. Which is 
pretty much only Noteself. There is another category for backups.

-- Mark

On Tuesday, May 29, 2018 at 10:41:25 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Mat "versioning" is slightly ambiguous in application.
>
> Usually it refers to a system that has an  "inbuilt method of recovery" 
> ... i.e. the interface itself lets you go back. NoteSelf (or, rather, 
> CouchDB) has that. But TiddlyDesktop and other saving mechanisms have 
> Redundant Backup, which is similar, but no interface for.
>
> In some ways "Redundant Backup" might be more accurate to what goes on in 
> TW. For instance TiddyDesktop doesn't do version control, but it does do 
> redundant backup.
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[Mat]

@TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> AndTidWiki ...
>

added info. Thank you.

<:-)

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[Mat]

@TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> I want add ... :-)
>
> unique-features: Lovely menus. Runs like a normal program. 
>

I added this too. It gave me the idea to have user comments... but that 
would really be more work to collect than I can do... so I came to think of 
the usual problem with federated wikis and to somehow collects user 
comments... and I came to wonder what steps will be needed from here, 
considering all the SetUp's :-)


<:-) 

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mat "versioning" is slightly ambiguous in application.

Usually it refers to a system that has an  "inbuilt method of recovery" ... 
i.e. the interface itself lets you go back. NoteSelf (or, rather, CouchDB) 
has that. But TiddlyDesktop and other saving mechanisms have Redundant 
Backup, which is similar, but no interface for.

In some ways "Redundant Backup" might be more accurate to what goes on in 
TW. For instance TiddyDesktop doesn't do version control, but it does do 
redundant backup.

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[Mat]

@TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> TiddlyDesktop:
>
[..criteria...] 


Added.

browser: Internal Chrome Engine (NOT a full browser)
>

Hm, the idea with the criteria is to let users set requirements so from a 
user standpoint I am writing "N/A" for the browser criteria - but I added a 
note in the SetUp text.

Thank you!

<:-)

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

TiddlyWiki in the Sky and TiddlyDrive seem to most closely correspond to 
"services". They save via someone else's service (actually use 2 services) 
and there is no equivalent server that you can set up to do the same thing.

"File Backups" is definitely in the "saver" category. It doesn't serve up 
anything, and provides services the native file saver doesn't do (like 
auto-save, and backups). 

data-storage: local-file
dependencies: no (assuming you don't think of a plugin as a dependency)
encryption: native
file-or-folder: file
format: TW-plugin
mobile-first: no
multi-user: no

The popup messages from the header row on the right side are chopped off by 
the screen edge on my FF browser.  

Thanks,
Mark

Thanks!
Mark

On Tuesday, May 29, 2018 at 9:27:35 AM UTC-7, Mat wrote:
>
> OK, SetUp has been updated to hopefully 
> reflect all the new info... even if I have quite possibly missed something 
> or misunderstood it... in which case I ask you to point this out. As I hope 
> has already been noted, you can click the SetUp names to get some info 
> about the SetUp. I've added some info there that doesn't fit in the table.
>
> There are too many posts to reply to individually but I hope it is clear 
> that I really appreciate them all and read them carefully. Thank you guys.
>
> Of course, there is *still a lot of missing info*. Please keep it coming.
>
> Also note I've changed the initial "explanations" somewhat. Whaddyasay:
>
> savers - Saving mechanisms enabling things that the native TW saving 
>> can't do
>> servers - Programs that serve tiddlers and control who/what has access 
>> to them
>> services - Services run by someone else to store, serve (and ultimately 
>> control) your tiddlers
>> managers - Tools to manage multiple TiddlyWikis
>
>
>
> And, still, any other suggestions for improvements are welcome.
>
> I think good way to identify what's important are questions/scenarios like:
>
>- "OK, I'm going to set up a TW system for my friend/co-worker/mum/... 
>what will he/she consider important? (if he/she knew how to formulate it)"
>- What does a tech-savvy hacker look at?
>- What would "the average facebook user" consider important?
>- How about the paranoid guy?  
>- "I just want it to be simple!"
>- What does it take for this to be used in a corporate environment of 
>10 people? 100 people?
>
> ...
>
> <:-)
>

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[@TiddlyTweeter]

AndTidWiki ...

By: mgsi...@gmail.com (not sure it works)

Source: AndTidWiki ... free (with ads) ... 
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.mgsimon.android.andtidwiki=en

Source: AndTidWiki+ ... paid ... 
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.mgsimon.android.andtidwikiplus

Info: 

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[@TiddlyTweeter]

I want add ... :-)

unique-features: Lovely menus. Runs like a normal program. 

On Tuesday, 29 May 2018 18:50:49 UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> TiddlyDesktop:
>
> auto-backup: Yes
> browser: Internal Chrome Engine (NOT a full browser)
> data-storage-location: Local
> dependencies: None
> encryption: Native-TW-encr. on TW files
> file-or-folder: Both
> format: html & .tid
> mobile-first: no
> multi-user: no
> os: win mac linux
> portable: no
> versioning: no
> works-offline: yes
>

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[@TiddlyTweeter]

TiddlyDesktop:

auto-backup: Yes
browser: Internal Chrome Engine (NOT a full browser)
data-storage-location: Local
dependencies: None
encryption: Native-TW-encr. on TW files
file-or-folder: Both
format: html & .tid
mobile-first: no
multi-user: no
os: win mac linux
portable: no
versioning: no
works-offline: yes

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[Mat]

OK, SetUp has been updated to hopefully 
reflect all the new info... even if I have quite possibly missed something 
or misunderstood it... in which case I ask you to point this out. As I hope 
has already been noted, you can click the SetUp names to get some info 
about the SetUp. I've added some info there that doesn't fit in the table.

There are too many posts to reply to individually but I hope it is clear 
that I really appreciate them all and read them carefully. Thank you guys.

Of course, there is *still a lot of missing info*. Please keep it coming.

Also note I've changed the initial "explanations" somewhat. Whaddyasay:

savers - Saving mechanisms enabling things that the native TW saving can't 
> do
> servers - Programs that serve tiddlers and control who/what has access to 
> them
> services - Services run by someone else to store, serve (and ultimately 
> control) your tiddlers
> managers - Tools to manage multiple TiddlyWikis



And, still, any other suggestions for improvements are welcome.

I think good way to identify what's important are questions/scenarios like:

   - "OK, I'm going to set up a TW system for my friend/co-worker/mum/... 
   what will he/she consider important? (if he/she knew how to formulate it)"
   - What does a tech-savvy hacker look at?
   - What would "the average facebook user" consider important?
   - How about the paranoid guy?  
   - "I just want it to be simple!"
   - What does it take for this to be used in a corporate environment of 10 
   people? 100 people?
   
...

<:-)

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

You're right. It's been awhile since I tried to use NoteSelf.

It does seem like it's in two categories, working either as a saver or as 
service. I would not say it qualifies as a "server" until there is a 
complete setup explaining how to (1) set up your own couch server and (2) 
connect a NoteSelf instance to that server.

Thanks,
Mark

On Tuesday, May 29, 2018 at 5:42:22 AM UTC-7, Lost Admin wrote:
>
>
>
> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 9:13:59 PM UTC-4, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> Hi Mat,
>>
>> NoteSelf fits into two categories. One as a (remote) Service and one as a 
>> (local browser) Saver. The complication of it as a local browser saver is 
>> that *it needs to connect to the github starting page at least once*.  
>> So it's not 100% offline. That is, if someone needed to set it up inside a 
>> sealed room cut off from the rest of the world they would currently be out 
>> of luck. 
>>
>  
> The underlined part of your statement is not entirely accurate. At least 
> it is as accrate as saying that one needs to *connect to 
> tiddlywiki.com/empty.html  at least once 
> to use TiddlyWiki*.
>
> Although you can use the github as your starting point, you can also 
> download the NoteSelf variation of empty.html and use that from any static 
> web server. As an example, switch to private browsing or incognito mode and 
> go to https://notes.suntrap.ca/noteself.html. Or, use the download button 
> at the bottom of https://noteself.github.io/ and save your own copy of an 
> empty noteself.html and use it locally.
>
> P.S. sorry for getting so technical Mat. But the conversation has gotten 
> way deep.
>
> Oh, and those instructions are coming. I've got a day job so they aren't 
> coming fast.
>
>

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Announcing Bob version 1.0.0 Sourdough (formerly MultiUser)

[@TiddlyTweeter]

That it is not, probably, just Windows, is encouraging. Meaning a universal 
solution for all OS is likely gonna work.

I am in no hurry. Just wanted to check you grasped the issue. J x

On Tuesday, 29 May 2018 16:53:54 UTC+2, Jed Carty wrote:
>
> TiddlyTweeter,
>
> That is probably caused my the same thing as the child processes closing 
> the wiki in windows but this one may happen on osx and Linux also.
>
> I think the same solution will work but I don't think I will get to it 
> until I am back in Paris. 
>
>

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Announcing Bob version 1.0.0 Sourdough (formerly MultiUser)

[Jed Carty]

TiddlyTweeter,

That is probably caused my the same thing as the child processes closing the 
wiki in windows but this one may happen on osx and Linux also.

I think the same solution will work but I don't think I will get to it until I 
am back in Paris. 

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[@TiddlyTweeter]

First Encounter is NOT relevant anyway. It gets ridiculous mixing up how 
you download/start with a running TW. Its the basic nature of normal 
function that is the focus ... not how you got there.

Just IMO

On Tuesday, 29 May 2018 14:42:22 UTC+2, Lost Admin wrote:
>
> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 9:13:59 PM UTC-4, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> ... The complication of it as a local browser saver is that *it needs to 
>> connect to the github starting page at least once*...
>>
>  
> The underlined part of your statement is not entirely accurate.
>

 

> P.S. sorry for getting so technical Mat. But the conversation has gotten 
> way deep.
>

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[@TiddlyTweeter]

>
> TonyM wrote:
> We can expect more cases of databases that serve tiddlers.
> In which case more items will have similar specifications.
>

Right. @Maarfapad  has been experimenting 
towards it. Currently in private beta.

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[@TiddlyTweeter]

TonyM wrote:
>
> Perhaps an ease of setup column should be used to show pouchDB is 
> difficult, although those with the IBM database version can currently do it 
> with less complexity than setting up their own.
>

NO. Merely, where available, specialist help support could be linked to. 
For NoteSelf it is: https://forum.noteself.org

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[tw5] Re: [TW5] Announcing Bob version 1.0.0 Sourdough (formerly MultiUser)

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Jed

Further to the posts before (below) ... I just noticed that if you start 
Windows apps using scripts that when you terminate Bob it also terminates 
those apps. (FYI, they are not "calls" which would pause Bob, they have 
their own memory space and run fine & don't interfere).

Could there be way to have flag on script launch that created a separate 
process that isn't a child of Bob? Such that it could persist after Bob 
expires?

Hope this is clear!
Josiah

On Sunday, 27 May 2018 13:59:20 UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Jed Carty wrote:
>>
>> I think that the problem with the windows commands is from all of the 
>> commands sharing the same io streams. I can add an option to have a command 
>> run with its own terminal instead of in the shared terminal with Bob and 
>> that may help. The downside is that it may spawn a new window for each 
>> script that runs.
>>
>
> Having a separate terminal window on Windows could be useful. But not if 
> it changes the current behaviour. As an additional feature, Yes, 
> definitekly. As a standard way of running, No. Reason being it complicates 
> things for more routine procedures where a simple batch file will do the 
> job already in the primary console.
>

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[tw5] Re: Presenting: SetUp - a guide to set up a great TW system

[Lost Admin]

On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 9:13:59 PM UTC-4, Mark S. wrote:
>
> Hi Mat,
>
> NoteSelf fits into two categories. One as a (remote) Service and one as a 
> (local browser) Saver. The complication of it as a local browser saver is 
> that *it needs to connect to the github starting page at least once*.  So 
> it's not 100% offline. That is, if someone needed to set it up inside a 
> sealed room cut off from the rest of the world they would currently be out 
> of luck. 
>
 
The underlined part of your statement is not entirely accurate. At least 
not any more so than it would be to say that one needs to *connect to 
tiddlywiki.com/empty.html at least once to use TiddlyWiki*.

Although you can use the github as your starting point, you can also 
download the NoteSelf variation of empty.html and use that from any static 
web server. As an example, switch to private browsing or incognito mode and 
go to https://notes.suntrap.ca/noteself.html. Or, use the download button 
at the bottom of https://noteself.github.io/ and save your own copy of an 
empty noteself.html and use it locally.

P.S. sorry for getting so technical Mat. But the conversation has gotten 
way deep.

Oh, and those instructions are coming. I've got a day job so they aren't 
coming fast.

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[tw5] Re: How do I export/concatenate en masse Tidddlers to MS Word?

[stefct4]

Hi, 

On Tuesday, May 29, 2018 at 6:46:21 AM UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:
>
>
> <$transclude/>
>
As in your earlier example, this should probably be replaced by

<$transclude mode="block"/>

~Stef

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[tw5] TW Thoughts -- The BDFL Comments

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Over on Twitter there was a brief interesting discussion ...

@TiddlyWiki  A funny quirk about 
#TiddlyWiki  is that the parser 
for filtered transclusion takes tooltips, classes and styles, but the link 
widget put into the parse tree doesn’t make use of them.
-- @zemoxian 

TW replied ...

Well spotted! A mark of distinction, like sediment in a fine wine… Early in 
development transclusions generated their own DOM element; it made it 
easier to handle refreshing, but clogged up the DOM tree. 

*I think there might quite a few more vestigial untaken paths…*

-- @TiddlyWiki 

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