Re: [tw] Noteself on TiddlySpot? @Danielo

[@TiddlyTweeter]

An issue with Noteself is it is a relationship between you and a data 
server. That makes it work. Its a PRIVATE matter. Getting it OUT THERE, on 
web, is something else. Not yet so well addressed ...

Ste Wilson wrote upon a bunch of issues, amongst which were ...

... What this means is that I can't host a NoteSelf Wiki that anyone can 
> view ...
>

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Re: [tw] Noteself on TiddlySpot? @Danielo

[Mat]

On Saturday, January 27, 2018 at 5:41:21 PM UTC+1, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
>
>> Well normal TW doesn't save automatically in such a *superbly *convenient 
>> way that NoteSelf does. That's a pretty big deal, at least for me. 
>>
>
> *RIGHT. Right on. Add it to Saving Methods, please. *
>

@Danielo - is the mechanism for automatic saving to browser possible to 
turn into a plugin for TW? I.e a plugin that can be installed like any 
other plugin.

<:-)




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Re: [tw] Noteself on TiddlySpot? @Danielo

[Ste Wilson]

I tried to set up a multi user instance over xmas but NoteSelf doesn't quite 
work the way I thought it did. 
If I hosted it then when logging in on a fresh browser its empty till the 
NoteSelf details are entered because this info is stored in the browser and not 
the tiddlywiki. 
The export options (I assume to start an instance with the NoteSelf info baked 
into the tiddlywiki) always resulted in the red screen of embarrassment. 
I'm not sure if this is because the downloaded name is different to the 
original name or what.. 
What this means is that I can't host a NoteSelf Wiki that anyone can view and 
can be logged into for editing. 
I'm not sure if I've missed the point somewhere or if I'm just encountering 
bugs. 

Stephen. 

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Re: [tw] Noteself on TiddlySpot? @Danielo

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mat wrote:
>
> I agree that is the most exciting part, if multiple users. 
>

Not quite there yet.

Noteself supports multiple users (one by one) but not simultaneous 
guaranteed reliable yet. IT points the way.

Josiah 

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Re: [tw] Noteself on TiddlySpot? @Danielo

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mat wrote:
>
> Well normal TW doesn't save automatically in such a *superbly *convenient 
> way that NoteSelf does. That's a pretty big deal, at least for me. 
>

The save method to "Browser Storage" is brilliant and outlives the 
Apocalypse. Its easy-peasy with no need for special steps. The only problem 
is what happens is if your browser fails, OR you want to transport to a new 
one. Add some kinda backup of whole TW and you are really there.

This should be an Option on page One. IMO.

Josiah

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Re: [tw] Noteself on TiddlySpot? @Danielo

[@TiddlyTweeter]

 Mat wrote:
>
> If you thinking of TiddlySpot saves a Noteself made solo on computer with 
>> only local Pouch *I CAN'T see the point.* It adds nothing to what we do 
>> already. Just use a normal TW.
>>
>
> Well normal TW doesn't save automatically in such a *superbly *convenient 
> way that NoteSelf does. That's a pretty big deal, at least for me. 
>

*RIGHT. Right on. Add it to Saving Methods, please. *

Josiah.

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Re: [tw] Noteself on TiddlySpot? @Danielo

[Matias Goldman]

>
> If you thinking of TiddlySpot saves a Noteself made solo on computer with
> only local Pouch *I CAN'T see the point.* It adds nothing to what we do
> already. Just use a normal TW.
>

Well normal TW doesn't save automatically in such a *superbly *convenient
way that NoteSelf does. That's a pretty big deal, at least for me.



> It only gets exciting with live on-line connect to that remote DB that
> lets you "do-it" from many places. I can't tell you what is in the backend
> much other than it supports a JSON data structure.
>

I agree that is the most exciting part, if multiple users.

<:-)

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Re: [tw] Noteself on TiddlySpot? @Danielo

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mat

If you thinking of TiddlySpot saves a Noteself made solo on computer with 
only local Pouch *I CAN'T see the point.* It adds nothing to what we do 
already. Just use a normal TW.

It only gets exciting with live on-line connect to that remote DB that lets 
you "do-it" from many places. I can't tell you what is in the backend much 
other than it supports a JSON data structure.

Josiah


On Saturday, 27 January 2018 16:29:27 UTC+1, Mat wrote:
>
> 2018-01-27 16:09 GMT+01:00 @TiddlyTweeter  >:
>
>> Ciao Mat
>>
>> Even though I am Dumbo I find your notes on this dumb. :-) Lol! 
>>
>
> Haha! You may be right (Even the sun has its spots, to quote my old 
> English teacher)
>
>  
>
>> Mat wrote:
>>>
>>> Basically, my idea here is merely to use TiddlySpot as the backend 
>>> server side storage. 
>>>
>>
>> Errm. TiddlySpot is NOT a database, its a page saver. Noteself saves its 
>> contents to a DATABASE.
>>
>
> Well, I only proposed to use TS as a storage. Does NoteSelf require a 
> separate database - isn't that what that TiddlyPouch/Couch is? I.e what 
> uses my local browser to store stuff?
>  
>
> The best you might get is a TiddlySpot TW as a PUBLIC instance. That could 
>> be useful. You will still need a backend.
>>
>
> Does NS require more than the modified TW document and the browser 
> database? What functionality is not contained in those two parts? What is 
> actually stored in the backend, or what does it do?
>
> Thanks!
>
> <:-)
>
>
>

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Re: [tw] Noteself on TiddlySpot? @Danielo

[Matias Goldman]

2018-01-27 16:09 GMT+01:00 @TiddlyTweeter :

> Ciao Mat
>
> Even though I am Dumbo I find your notes on this dumb. :-) Lol!
>

Haha! You may be right (Even the sun has its spots, to quote my old English
teacher)



> Mat wrote:
>>
>> Basically, my idea here is merely to use TiddlySpot as the backend server
>> side storage.
>>
>
> Errm. TiddlySpot is NOT a database, its a page saver. Noteself saves its
> contents to a DATABASE.
>

Well, I only proposed to use TS as a storage. Does NoteSelf require a
separate database - isn't that what that TiddlyPouch/Couch is? I.e what
uses my local browser to store stuff?


The best you might get is a TiddlySpot TW as a PUBLIC instance. That could
> be useful. You will still need a backend.
>

Does NS require more than the modified TW document and the browser
database? What functionality is not contained in those two parts? What is
actually stored in the backend, or what does it do?

Thanks!

<:-)

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Re: [tw] Noteself on TiddlySpot? @Danielo

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mat

Even though I am Dumbo I find your notes on this dumb. :-) Lol!

Mat wrote:
>
> Basically, my idea here is merely to use TiddlySpot as the backend server 
> side storage. 
>

Errm. TiddlySpot is NOT a database, its a page saver. Noteself saves its 
contents to a DATABASE.

The best you might get is a TiddlySpot TW as a PUBLIC instance. That could 
be useful. You will still need a backend.

Josiah

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Re: [tw] Noteself on TiddlySpot? @Danielo

[Matias Goldman]

Thanx for reply Danielo!


> From Noteself point of view this does not make much sense. Noteself is
> designed as an application for working offline on your browser with support
> for an specific kind of backend for server side storage. Any scenario out
> of that one is not officially supported and I didn't take it in account
> while designing Noteself.
>

When saying "specific kind of backend for server side storage", are you
referring to what CloudAnt provide (provided), or what?
Basically, my idea here is merely to use TiddlySpot as the backend server
side storage. I can fully understand that this was not what you had in
mind... but it would be really neat if it worked. Many people are familiar
with TiddlySpot and uploading to it is of course already integrated in
native TW... even in NoteSelf! Now that CloudAnt requires payment, I think
it would be super useful if NoteSelf could use other simple server storages
as backend.


> Please note that Noteself is a tiddlywiky edition and it relies on a set
> of heavily opinionated modifications over the normal tiddlywiky edition.
>

No prob. As long as it's TW it's all(?) modifiable :-)

That said, I have always aimed at providing maximum compatibility with
> tiddlywiky and it's ecosystem (not sure why, to be honest). This can lead
> to some people making fun experiments that work and some others that does
> not. For example, the recent bug fixes allows you to download your entire
> wiki as an  standalone file with the tiddlers hard-coded on the html as
> usual while keeping the ability of adding more tiddlers on top of the local
> database. Like some short of snapshot system.
>

I, for one, really appreciate your aim for TW compatability. I also think
it makes sense; I think your NoteSelf user base mostly comes from the TW
community so it's probably a good idea to aim for compatability.



> I'm not sure right now how the download mechanism works. It may be my own
> plugin baking the tiddlers and then downloading the file or it may allow
> the next saving mechanism handle the work.
> The error you are reporting seems to be more related to one limitation
> tiddlywiky has. If you install a plugin that requires raw tiddlers to be
> installed on the head section of the html file (like tiddlypouch does) you
> will have to reload the wiki twice. This is not a problem on the file
> edition, but it is a real pain in the neck for cloud saving mechanisms.
>

Any way around this?



> Your best bet is to go to the online version, configure your tiddlyspot
> credentials and attempt to upload from there.
>

Fails when attempting.

Anybody else succeeds? If I understand Danielo correct, it is simply to:

 go to https://noteself.github.io/
click "online"
and in the Controlpanel > Saving > Tiddlyspot ..fill in the tiddlyspot site
+ password and upload.

<:-)

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[tw] Noteself on TiddlySpot? @Danielo

[Danielo Rodríguez]

Hello Mat
>From Noteself point of view this does not make much sense. Noteself is 
>designed as an application for working offline on your browser with support 
>for an specific kind of backend for server side storage. Any scenario out of 
>that one is not officially supported and I didn't take it in account while 
>designing Noteself.
Please note that Noteself is a tiddlywiky edition and it relies on a set of 
heavily opinionated modifications over the normal tiddlywiky edition. 

That said, I have always aimed at providing maximum compatibility with 
tiddlywiky and it's ecosystem (not sure why, to be honest). This can lead to 
some people making fun experiments that work and some others that does not. For 
example, the recent bug fixes allows you to download your entire wiki as an  
standalone file with the tiddlers hard-coded on the html as usual while keeping 
the ability of adding more tiddlers on top of the local database. Like some 
short of snapshot system.
I'm not sure right now how the download mechanism works. It may be my own 
plugin baking the tiddlers and then downloading the file or it may allow the 
next saving mechanism handle the work. 
The error you are reporting seems to be more related to one limitation 
tiddlywiky has. If you install a plugin that requires raw tiddlers to be 
installed on the head section of the html file (like tiddlypouch does) you will 
have to reload the wiki twice. This is not a problem on the file edition, but 
it is a real pain in the neck for cloud saving mechanisms. 
Your best bet is to go to the online version, configure your tiddlyspot 
credentials and attempt to upload from there.

Good luck 

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[tw] Noteself on TiddlySpot? @Danielo

[Mat]

@Danielo

NoteSelf  is super interesting.

Is it possible to host a NoteSelf on TiddlySpot, i.e so that tiddlers are 
automatically and NoteSelf'ically saved in my local browser - but if I want 
to "hard save" the TW, I upload it to TiddlySpot and so it can be accessed 
from any other device. 

In attempting this, I crated a TW5 on TiddlySpot (e.g here 
) and drag'n dropped all special 
plugins from NoteSelf  into it. The resulting 
 TW unfortunately cannot load but gives the 
red embarassement and the message:

Uncaught ReferenceError: $TPouch is not defined

Is it just not possible? Does NoteSelf require functionality outside of the 
TW and its installed NS-plugins?

Thank you!

<:-)

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