[tw] Re: [TW5] several questions for migrating/using TW5
Just give me an example: how many programs that do you use allows double click for editing something? Word? Excel? Notepad? LibreOffice? dokuWiki? facebook? google Drive? How does programs manage double click? tw2.;-) You know how many times I have double-clicked or CTR-ENTERed in facebook? :D I agree with that part, editing large text could be too much scoll but even in this case I would prefer an alternative solucion. Maybe a floating button, visible on-hover, maye a context menu. Yes, those are good ideas as well, perhaps even an on-hover toolbar, dynamically reattached to the bottom of a tiddler or floating in a fixed position at the bottom of the story-display so long as we're in the middle of a tiddler going beyond that screen All that sounds like a lot more work, though. Best wishes, Tobias. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] several questions for migrating/using TW5
As far as I know, it's not planned. IMO the main reason is, that users expect a browser double click to select a word and not change the view mode. -m To me, that's the single most feature used when editing a tw and that's usually what I do in my wikis... I edit them. So, it would be more than welcome to have that option, whereas selecting a word by double-clicking is something I hardly ever do. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] several questions for migrating/using TW5
To me, that's the single most feature used when editing a tw and that's usually what I do in my wikis... I edit them. So, it would be more than welcome to have that option, whereas selecting a word by double-clicking is something I hardly ever do. I think you are being a little selfish here. You want your feature back, it's ok, but is not te expected behavior for most of the users. Double click for edit was the most anoying feature that TWC has, and I hated it a lot. In my work we use a ticketing system where I edit a lot of information, I promisse, and I hate the double click to edit feautre that some fields has. What's wrong with clicking on a button? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] several questions for migrating/using TW5
On Thursday, November 13, 2014 6:05:56 AM UTC-8, Danielo Rodríguez wrote: To me, that's the single most feature used when editing a tw and that's usually what I do in my wikis... I edit them. So, it would be more than welcome to have that option, whereas selecting a word by double-clicking is something I hardly ever do. I think you are being a little selfish here. You want your feature back, it's ok, but is not te expected behavior for most of the users. Double click for edit was the most anoying feature that TWC has, and I hated it a lot. In my work we use a ticketing system where I edit a lot of information, I promisse, and I hate the double click to edit feautre that some fields has. What's wrong with clicking on a button? In matters of personal workflow, there are clearly different preferences for the double-click behavior... and, despite what most of the users may want, that isn't an argument against offering an optional alternative behavior when possible, even if it is only desired by a minority of users. Rather than arguing about individual use-case preferences, the discussion should be about whether or not the core architecture supports the ability to modify the double-click behavior, either by use of existing configuration features, or by writing a plugin. Of course, if that kind of customization isn't currently possible, then the discussion should shift to what kind of changes would be needed to allow alternative double-click handling, and the relative cost/benefit of implementing those changes in the core. Also, just for the record, in TiddlyWiki Classic, the ability to turn OFF the doubleclick-to-edit behavior is VERY simple... in [[ToolbarCommands]], change +edit to edit in the ViewToolbar slice definition. Just ONE character to change, and your hatred for the most annoying feature that TWC has is GONE. enjoy, -e -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] several questions for migrating/using TW5
Hi Danielo, You want your feature back, it's ok, but is not te expected behavior for most of the users. In a visitor / web context I totally agree; from an editors point of view not so much ...but this distinction concerns more than click-behavior. Double click for edit was the most anoying feature that TWC has, and I hated it a lot. I can safely say that it took me a little bit to get the hang of it and there has probably been that moment where I thought: *arghh,ok*. ^_^ What's wrong with clicking on a button? Essentially, lot's of scrolling to the toolbar and then moving the mouse to the right button, rather than a ridiculously simple and fast click anywhere. But that's just my 5 cents and I can totally understand if you and others others prefer to be spared from it, so I'm not asking for changing the default behavior, just emphasizing a desire for what Jeremy suggested might be an optional feature at some point. Best wishes, Tobias. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] several questions for migrating/using TW5
@Eric: You are right in most of you said but... why do I have to deactivate a non-standard function? Is not better to activate it when needed? In a visitor / web context I totally agree; from an editors point of view not so much ...but this distinction concerns more than click-behavior. Just give me an example: how many programs that do you use allows double click for editing something? Word? Excel? Notepad? LibreOffice? dokuWiki? facebook? google Drive? How does programs manage double click? Essentially, lot's of scrolling to the toolbar and then moving the mouse to the right button, rather than a ridiculously simple and fast click anywhere. But that's just my 5 cents and I can totally understand if you and others others prefer to be spared from it, so I'm not asking for changing the default behavior, just emphasizing a desire for what Jeremy suggested might be an optional feature at some point. I agree with that part, editing large text could be too much scoll but even in this case I would prefer an alternative solucion. Maybe a floating button, visible on-hover, maye a context menu. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] several questions for migrating/using TW5
On Sunday, November 2, 2014 8:06:14 PM UTC+1, Yakov wrote: 4. In TiddlyWiki.com, permalink/permaview are now shown in the toolbars. Of'course, I can unhide them each time, but it would be more convenient if they are shown (mostly permalink on tiddlers). If you open the tiddler (i)nfo button, you can select, which buttons are permanently added to the tiddler toolbar. Same with the sidebar. -m -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] several questions for migrating/using TW5
On Sunday, November 2, 2014 8:06:14 PM UTC+1, Yakov wrote:
3. I haven't found a way to add DOM classes inline (like {{myClass{text}}}
in TWc), only inline styles and block styles/classes [1]. Will there be
some syntax to do this?
see:
http://tiddlywiki.com/#Styles%20and%20Classes%20in%20WikiText:WikiText%20%5B%5BStyles%20and%20Classes%20in%20WikiText%5D%5D
-m
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[tw] Re: [TW5] several questions for migrating/using TW5
On Sunday, November 2, 2014 8:06:14 PM UTC+1, Yakov wrote: 2. Double click doesn't open a tiddler for editing. Will this behaviour be implemented in TW5? As far as I know, it's not planned. IMO the main reason is, that users expect a browser double click to select a word and not change the view mode. -m -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] several questions for migrating/using TW5
On Sunday, November 2, 2014 8:06:14 PM UTC+1, Yakov wrote: 5. In default theme, the EditTemplate (or how it is called in TW5) doesn't look simple at all (while Jeremy wrote that simplicity is of importance for attracting new users a while ago). Also, the edit area itself occupies very part of the tiddler area. I'd propose some adjustments: -- move show preview to the toolbar -- hide the Use wiki text http://tiddlywiki.com/static/WikiText.html to add formatting, images, and dynamic features tip to some sort of info section which is to be toggled by a button in the toolbar (just like the info button in the view mode toggles info) -- put the content type chooser and the field adder in the same line (added fields are displayed in separate lines anyway) -- probably reduce margine of the edit area at least by third see: https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/506 and: https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/170 There are probably more of them. -mario -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] several questions for migrating/using TW5
On Sunday, November 2, 2014 8:06:14 PM UTC+1, Yakov wrote: 6. Are there sections, slices or stuff like that in TW5? Some means of usage TW in a database-like style (like using ForEachTiddlerPlugin or GridPlugin [2]) -- with the content shown inside the tiddler text? May be even some tools to aggregate such tables within the core? The whole TW UI is built with the TW widgets. Especially the listWidget has some super powers with special filters for almost everything. It completely replaces fETplugin. ... The EditTemlate is pure wikitext. Highly advanced wikitext but mastering it will need some deep diving :) But if you want to add / remove some elements form PageTemplate / ViewTemplate / EditTemplate you probably just need a special system tag. So just ask before you try to change the templates. May be there is an easier solution. -mario -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] several questions for migrating/using TW5
PS Ok, one more note:
7. when I add a tag or a field and then press esc (cancel), no prompt like
are you sure that you'd like to abandon the changes is displayed.
воскресенье, 2 ноября 2014 г., 22:06:14 UTC+3 пользователь Yakov написал:
Hi guys,
I'm trying to adapt TW5 to certain limited needs while exploring its
capabilities and here are several notes/questions:
1. I'd like to take advantage of TW5 encryption. Does it still encrypt
only the whole TW or there's a possibility to encrypt single tiddlers?
2. Double click doesn't open a tiddler for editing. Will this behaviour be
implemented in TW5?
3. I haven't found a way to add DOM classes inline (like {{myClass{text}}}
in TWc), only inline styles and block styles/classes [1]. Will there be
some syntax to do this?
4. In TiddlyWiki.com, permalink/permaview are now shown in the toolbars.
Of'course, I can unhide them each time, but it would be more convenient if
they are shown (mostly permalink on tiddlers).
5. In default theme, the EditTemplate (or how it is called in TW5) doesn't
look simple at all (while Jeremy wrote that simplicity is of importance for
attracting new users a while ago). Also, the edit area itself occupies very
part of the tiddler area. I'd propose some adjustments:
-- move show preview to the toolbar
-- hide the Use wiki text http://tiddlywiki.com/static/WikiText.html
to add formatting, images, and dynamic features tip to some sort of
info section which is to be toggled by a button in the toolbar (just like
the info button in the view mode toggles info)
-- put the content type chooser and the field adder in the same line
(added fields are displayed in separate lines anyway)
-- probably reduce margine of the edit area at least by third
6. Are there sections, slices or stuff like that in TW5? Some means of
usage TW in a database-like style (like using ForEachTiddlerPlugin or
GridPlugin [2]) -- with the content shown inside the tiddler text? May be
even some tools to aggregate such tables within the core?
Best regards,
Yakov.
[1] http://tiddlywiki.com/#Styles%20and%20Classes%20in%20WikiText
[2] tiddlytools.com/#GridPluginInfo
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[tw] Re: [TW5] several questions for migrating/using TW5
Am Sonntag, 2. November 2014 20:06:14 UTC+1 schrieb Yakov:
Hi guys,
I'm trying to adapt TW5 to certain limited needs while exploring its
capabilities and here are several notes/questions:
1. I'd like to take advantage of TW5 encryption. Does it still encrypt
only the whole TW or there's a possibility to encrypt single tiddlers?
The Whole - but If I'm not mistaken there is a plugin to encrypt single
tiddlers. Use the search function in this group.
2. Double click doesn't open a tiddler for editing. Will this behaviour be
implemented in TW5?
I hope not. I like it to be able to select word-wise by double clicking the
first word I want to select.
3. I haven't found a way to add DOM classes inline (like {{myClass{text}}}
in TWc), only inline styles and block styles/classes [1]. Will there be
some syntax to do this?
What does this do? You can add span class=myclasstext/span. You can
even create Templates or macros for that.
4. In TiddlyWiki.com, permalink/permaview are now shown in the toolbars.
Of'course, I can unhide them each time, but it would be more convenient if
they are shown (mostly permalink on tiddlers).
Why would it be more convenient? I don't want to see them. It's sufficient
for me to be able to grab them from the sidebar's open-tab. I see no use in
actually seeing them.
5. In default theme, the EditTemplate (or how it is called in TW5) doesn't
look simple at all (while Jeremy wrote that simplicity is of importance for
attracting new users a while ago). Also, the edit area itself occupies very
part of the tiddler area. I'd propose some adjustments:
-- move show preview to the toolbar
-- hide the Use wiki text http://tiddlywiki.com/static/WikiText.html
to add formatting, images, and dynamic features tip to some sort of
info section which is to be toggled by a button in the toolbar (just like
the info button in the view mode toggles info)
-- put the content type chooser and the field adder in the same line
(added fields are displayed in separate lines anyway)
-- probably reduce margine of the edit area at least by third
I disagree. But you're free to tweak the templates to your likings.
6. Are there sections, slices or stuff like that in TW5? Some means of
usage TW in a database-like style (like using ForEachTiddlerPlugin or
GridPlugin [2]) -- with the content shown inside the tiddler text? May be
even some tools to aggregate such tables within the core?
slices - no, except kind of in data dictionary tiddlers
sections, stuff - not that I know ;)
database-like / foreach - have you seen the list widget?
7. when I add a tag or a field and then press esc (cancel), no prompt
like are you sure that you'd like to abandon the changes is displayed.
And that's good!
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[tw] Re: [TW5] several questions for migrating/using TW5
1. I'd like to take advantage of TW5 encryption. Does it still encrypt only the whole TW or there's a possibility to encrypt single tiddlers? The Whole - but If I'm not mistaken there is a plugin to encrypt single tiddlers. Use the search function in this group. Yes there is a plugin from Danielo : http://braintest.tiddlyspot.com/#:Encrypt-Tiddler -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] several questions for migrating/using TW5
Thanks, Sylvain. воскресенье, 2 ноября 2014 г., 22:49:21 UTC+3 пользователь Sylvain Naudin написал: 1. I'd like to take advantage of TW5 encryption. Does it still encrypt only the whole TW or there's a possibility to encrypt single tiddlers? The Whole - but If I'm not mistaken there is a plugin to encrypt single tiddlers. Use the search function in this group. Yes there is a plugin from Danielo : http://braintest.tiddlyspot.com/#:Encrypt-Tiddler -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[tw] Re: [TW5] several questions for migrating/using TW5
2. Double click doesn't open a tiddler for editing. Will this behaviour
be implemented in TW5?
I hope not. I like it to be able to select word-wise by double clicking
the first word I want to select.
Well, I'm asking about the plans; anyway it's no problem to implement that
as an optional feature governed by a param.
3. I haven't found a way to add DOM classes inline (like
{{myClass{text}}} in TWc), only inline styles and block styles/classes
[1]. Will there be some syntax to do this?
What does this do? You can add span class=myclasstext/span. You can
even create Templates or macros for that.
I use this heavily with CSS in TWc, the options you propose are too long to
write each time (I use them for different semantic highlightning). I've
heard about some kind of definitions which allow to define new syntaxes
like old-school +++[label]stuff=== for sliders etc, but I don't remember
the name of the mechanism.. Can anyone help with that?
4. In TiddlyWiki.com, permalink/permaview are now shown in the toolbars.
Of'course, I can unhide them each time, but it would be more convenient if
they are shown (mostly permalink on tiddlers).
Why would it be more convenient? I don't want to see them. It's sufficient
for me to be able to grab them from the sidebar's open-tab. I see no use in
actually seeing them.
They are needed for referencing and sharing links. The trick you propose is
ok, although it requires more clicks (while with proper keyboard shortcuts
permalink method requires only one). After all, one more icon wouldn't
hurt, I guess.
5. In default theme, the EditTemplate (or how it is called in TW5)
doesn't look simple at all (while Jeremy wrote that simplicity is of
importance for attracting new users a while ago). Also, the edit area
itself occupies very part of the tiddler area. I'd propose some adjustments:
-- move show preview to the toolbar
-- hide the Use wiki text http://tiddlywiki.com/static/WikiText.html
to add formatting, images, and dynamic features tip to some sort of
info section which is to be toggled by a button in the toolbar (just like
the info button in the view mode toggles info)
-- put the content type chooser and the field adder in the same line
(added fields are displayed in separate lines anyway)
-- probably reduce margine of the edit area at least by third
I disagree. But you're free to tweak the templates to your likings.
Well, if you don't provide arguments, it sounds like you disagree for the
sake of disagreement (considering the rest of you response). Back to TWc,
Jeremy refused to add some command to EditTemplate (references or jump, if
I'm not mistaken) for the sake of simplicity; for now, the EditTemplate is
not simple at all and it's much more complicated (or piled, it's better to
say) than that of TWc...
6. Are there sections, slices or stuff like that in TW5? Some means of
usage TW in a database-like style (like using ForEachTiddlerPlugin or
GridPlugin [2]) -- with the content shown inside the tiddler text? May be
even some tools to aggregate such tables within the core?
slices - no, except kind of in data dictionary tiddlers
sections, stuff - not that I know ;)
database-like / foreach - have you seen the list widget?
I haven't explored it fully (may be there's more power behind templates
than I know for now); when there's no distinguishing of sub-data, I won't
expect that it's possible to build some representation for it. An example
of what I mean:
in TWc, I have different sets of tiddlers, for instance
title:
name of a pupil
tags:
pupils
text:
|form|7a-1|
|remarks about character|...|
|things to remember|...|
...
and I aggregate values of slices for different pupils into different
(interactive) tables. On the other hand, sometimes I open tiddlers of
certain pupils to see and analyse different stuff, so I need these to be in
the tiddler text (not in the rather hidden fields).
7. when I add a tag or a field and then press esc (cancel), no prompt
like are you sure that you'd like to abandon the changes is displayed.
And that's good!
My opinion is different because this increases a possibility of unexpected
data loss; the behaviour can be made switchable via settings as well.
Best regards,
Yakov.
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[tw] Re: [TW5] several questions for migrating/using TW5
Am Sonntag, 2. November 2014 23:08:48 UTC+1 schrieb Yakov: I use this heavily with CSS in TWc, the options you propose are too long to write each time That's why I said: You can create a macro for that. myClass text isn't so much more to write. You just have to once create a macro \define myClass(text) span class=myClass$text$/span Or a more generic one: class myClass text \define class(myclass, text) span class=$myclass$$text$/span (I use them for different semantic highlightning). I've heard about some kind of definitions which allow to define new syntaxes like old-school +++[label]stuff=== for sliders etc, but I don't remember the name of the mechanism.. Can anyone help with that? rules? They are needed for referencing and sharing links. The trick you propose is ok, although it requires more clicks (while with proper keyboard shortcuts permalink method requires only one). After all, one more icon wouldn't hurt, I guess. One more icon for your permalinks, one more icon for pining tiddlers, one more icon for... whatever... You see: Every icon is just one more and I think there shouldn't be more than three, at most five. I like the current simplicity and after all: All this can be tweaked so that you have it. I disagree. But you're free to tweak the templates to your likings. Well, if you don't provide arguments, it sounds like you disagree for the sake of disagreement I disagree because I like the current simplicity and I like the fact that it's not too difficult to tweak almost everything about TW5. I do not think that we should change the current vanilla TW5 which is here for, well, almost 3 years now. (considering the rest of you response). considering your post, I got the impression that you didn't look too much into TW5 but simply hoped to have an updated TWc. Sorry when I'm doing you wrong. for now, the EditTemplate is not simple at all and it's much more complicated (or piled, it's better to say) than that of TWc... That's your view. I can't remember too many complains about it in the last 2 years. But let's wait what others think. I haven't explored it fully (may be there's more power behind templates than I know for now); when there's no distinguishing of sub-data, I won't expect that it's possible to build some representation for it. An example of what I mean: [...] and I aggregate values of slices for different pupils into different (interactive) tables. On the other hand, sometimes I open tiddlers of certain pupils to see and analyse different stuff, so I need these to be in the tiddler text (not in the rather hidden fields). Maybe Datatiddlers http://tiddlywiki.com/#DataTiddlers are sufficient? The representation is not as nice as a table, but I think they should give you all the rest. But you can as well stick to fields if you create an edit template for you pupils. See for example my (a bit outdated) simple Person DB on http://tw5magick.tiddlyspot.com/ 7. when I add a tag or a field and then press esc (cancel), no prompt like are you sure that you'd like to abandon the changes is displayed. And that's good! My opinion is different because this increases a possibility of unexpected data loss; the behaviour can be made switchable via settings as well. How much would you loose? 1 word? I think it would be better to add the Return-key here for entering a tag. After all: Esc is usually for leaving something without changing values. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to tiddlywiki@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
