Re: [tw5] Publication Quality Contents Using Tiddlywiki

[TonyM]

Josiah,

Would it be posible to publish some test print tiddlers and instructions for 
callabrating print output.

With the advent of 5.1.18 I plan to build some test data and test data 
generators and publish them so we can share some standard test data sets. Some 
test prints would complement this.

I will start a new thread on this.

Regards
Tony

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Re: [tw5] Publication Quality Contents Using Tiddlywiki

[Mohammad]

Hello Josiah,
 Many thanks for your useful comments!
I will give a try to see how I can do it!

Mohammad

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Re: [tw5] Publication Quality Contents Using Tiddlywiki

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mohammad

I notice you are looking at Prince. Its a really excellent thing to study 
to understand CSS for print. 

I think, likely, the best way to implement CSS for print in TiddlyWiki is 
to develop print stylesheets and share them to tease out the issues.

There are four levels I can think of ...

1 - Getting the basic Print CSS working
2 - Dealing with cross-browser issues (e.g. how they handle margin 
over-rides)
3 - Font handling/selection/substitution
4 - Variations on Printer or Virtual Printer (e.g. pdf) settings

Part of the issue is not TW. Its the general issue of How to harmonise 1-4. 
Prince, in particular, takes on this problem in a consistent way, so its 
useful to study.

Regarding "break previewing" --- Print-preview in-browser is often pretty 
good, though sometimes fails to match actual output because of one or more 
issues 2 to 4.

TIPS: At a simple level whilst developing a print layout it can be useful 
to ...

-- Force print version to print in monospaced fonts (helps understand the 
layout metrics)
-- Create two test tiddlers simply consisting of lines of numbers (e.g. 
01234567890123 etc) and print them to better identify lateral and vertical 
spacing issues
-- In testing ALWAYS test in TWO different Browsers and with TWO different 
Printers

I found this approach useful for better understanding which of 1-4 are the 
problem, especially for Break-Points.

Best wishes
Josiah

 Mohammad wrote:
>
> Take a look at price documentation here: 
> https://www.princexml.com/doc-prince/#page-size.
>
 

> There is no way to see when the tiddler contents overflow the specified 
> size!
>
 

> I hope other people in this forum share their idea / experience on *page 
> sizing / break issue*
> I think print river can be improved to help in this case! For example it 
> can have page break preview!
>

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Re: [tw5] Publication Quality Contents Using Tiddlywiki

[Mohammad]

Hello Tony!

 Yes, this is a crucial feature MISSING! We need in preparing publication 
quality contents. I use custom classes for sizing tiddler in A4, A5, etc. 
and then the *plugin river* from BTC with page break between tiddlers!
Take a look at price documentation 
here: https://www.princexml.com/doc-prince/#page-size.

But as you said, I have to do everything manually! There is no way to see 
when the tiddler contents overflow the specified size!

I hope other people in this forum share their idea / experience on *page 
sizing / break issue*
I think print river can be improved to help in this case! For example it 
can have page break preview!


Mohammad

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Re: [tw5] Publication Quality Contents Using Tiddlywiki

[TonyM]

Mohammad et al,

I have being happy simply generating a bespoke tiddler that includes the 
content I want, it would be simple to decide when to display footnotes 
etc... on a page or at the end of the document/chapter.

Now of course the whole suite of features a professional author may want 
could be incorporated in one or more editions, and most of this is I 
believe only a matter of design with a few exceptions.

The key issue that I face is the ability to see a preview that allows one 
to see where page breaks will occur based on the printer pages and portrait 
and landscape modes that are only set once you get the printer driver 
selected. It is then possible to insert additional page breaks where you 
want them forced but you have to exit the print preview for this. It seems 
to me what we need is a way to preview content according to how it will be 
interpreted by the print driver, and make changes that will be saved into 
tiddlywiki so the document retains this structure in subsequent prints.

So what I am saying is whilst I stand to be corrected this is the only 
structural issue I can see that we need to resolve that I cant see the 
method to solve it, where as everything else seems to me to be a simple 
mater of design with our existing tools.

So I ask this question: *Any idea how to solve this page sizing / break 
issue?*

Beyond that, what standard could we use against which to develop the 
necessary components? I would be happy to share in knocking each of the 
list one by one.
eg: Footnotes and citations excerpt or full at bottom of every page, every 
second page, end of chapter or end of book?
Page headings and footers? eg; a generic tiddler used to structure each 
heading and footer, 
etc...

Regards
Tony

On Wednesday, November 21, 2018 at 3:41:25 AM UTC+11, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:
>
> Mohammad
>
> I looked at that article. Its interesting and relevant in terms of aims.I 
> think that in TW we can meet those aims eventually. 
>
> But I think its also good to think through the different aspects of 
> academic *Publishing AND Writing* needs as they could work in TW. 
>
> The two, writing & publishing, are quite strongly related. 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/tiddlywiki/B0VGpW27MC4/jTsvc1F6BAAJ
>
> That thread on "Placeholders" had a number of interesting ideas and some 
> prototype code for handling 
> the situation of the scholar, or fiction, writer whose main aim is 
> smoother production of texts.
>
> I have held off writing more about it--basically because I can't code--so 
> before I ask for help I need get really clear what exactly I'm asking for.
>
> But the "placeholder" seems a very good fit for being able to better 
> develop emergent academic documents. 
> At the back of my mind is ability not just to create footnotes etc but 
> also have more than one type 
> (for instance "notes" for expanding meanings; "citations" for 
> bibliographic materials; and links to a "glossary" for definitions--all 
> dynamically changeable). 
>
> I think that approach fits better with actual writing practice.
>
> Just letting you know
> Best, Josiah
>
> On Tuesday, 20 November 2018 15:19:16 UTC+1, Mohammad wrote:
>>
>>
>> Research Articles in Simplified HTML: a Web-first format for HTML-based 
>> scholarly articles
>> https://peerj.com/articles/cs-132/#supplemental-information 
>>
>  
>>
>

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Re: [tw5] Publication Quality Contents Using Tiddlywiki

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mohammad

I looked at that article. Its interesting and relevant in terms of aims.I 
think that in TW we can meet those aims eventually. 

But I think its also good to think through the different aspects of 
academic *Publishing AND Writing* needs as they could work in TW. 

The two, writing & publishing, are quite strongly related. 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/tiddlywiki/B0VGpW27MC4/jTsvc1F6BAAJ

That thread on "Placeholders" had a number of interesting ideas and some 
prototype code for handing 
the situation of the scholar, or fiction, writer whose main aim is smoother 
production of texts.

I have held off writing more about it--basically because I can't code--so 
before I ask for help I need get really clear what exactly I'm asking for.

But the "placeholder" seems a very good fit for being able to better 
develop emergent academic documents. 
At the back of my mind is ability not just to create footnotes etc but also 
have more than one type 
(for instance "notes" for expanding meanings; "citations" for bibliographic 
materials; and links to a "glossary" for definitions--all dynamically 
changeable). 

I think that approach fits better with actual writing practice.

Just letting you know
Best, Josiah

On Tuesday, 20 November 2018 15:19:16 UTC+1, Mohammad wrote:
>
>
> Research Articles in Simplified HTML: a Web-first format for HTML-based 
> scholarly articles
> https://peerj.com/articles/cs-132/#supplemental-information 
>
 
>

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Re: [tw5] Publication Quality Contents Using Tiddlywiki

[Mohammad]

Josiah,
 Yes, you are right, at first we can go with manual and simple citation! A 
dictionary or a bibtex tiddler can store the references and a plugin can be 
used to cite!

I would also like to share this article! It is related to our discussion

Research Articles in Simplified HTML: a Web-first format for HTML-based 
scholarly articles
https://peerj.com/articles/cs-132/#supplemental-information


Mohammad

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Re: [tw5] Publication Quality Contents Using Tiddlywiki

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mohammad

I had quick look at the Mendeley citation and citation style manger. The 
part of it concerned with citation style (inline indicators) and 
endnote/footnotes (the full references) does look doable in TW. I think the 
issue would be whether you independently, one by one, support a citation 
style or go for something that can manage and switch between multiple 
types. Having ability to switch styles would be neat but a lot more 
complicated. In this case its not just CSS you'd have to cope but also with 
developing a generalisable "meta" data-structure.

Best
Josiah

The footnot plugin is good for start but we need to be able for scientific 
> citation and be able to use Mendely (
> https://www.mendeley.com/?interaction_required=true) or similar from web. 
> It seems we can also do this using some plugins
>

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Re: [tw5] Publication Quality Contents Using Tiddlywiki

[Mohammad]

Dear all,
 Many thanks for your comments and ideas!

   1. I understood we can set the paper size and margin using css. I tested 
   this using conditional css 
   (https://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease/#Custom%20Styles%20FAQ)
   2. For printing into high quality pdf or printers, the print-river 
   plugin seems to work but it needs to be improved
   3. The footnot plugin is good for start but we need to be able for 
   scientific citation and be able to use Mendely 
   (https://www.mendeley.com/?interaction_required=true) or similar from web. 
   It seems we can also do this using some plugins
   4. For math, we can use the Katex plugin! It works greats


Special thanks to Josiah for discussing this in depth!

I believe, TW has enough potential to replace MS words and similar for 
small scale contents like booklets, articles (I mean scholarly)

Cheers
Mohammad

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Re: [tw5] Publication Quality Contents Using Tiddlywiki

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Alex

> On 20 Nov 2018, at 12:49, Alex Hough  wrote:
> 
> 
> it must be a lot easier now --with new CSS rotate and all that

Surprisingly, CSS Transforms appeared in 2008, first on Safari, and then other 
browsers over the following 2 years.

Best wishes

Jeremy

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Re: [tw5] Publication Quality Contents Using Tiddlywiki

[Alex Hough]

i remember that!

it must be a lot easier now --with new CSS rotate and all that




Alex

On Tue, 20 Nov 2018 at 12:37, Jeremy Ruston  wrote:

> The waybackmachine to the rescue:
>
> https://web.archive.org/web/20100225222805/http://tiddlypocketbook.com:80/
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy
>
> On 20 Nov 2018, at 12:25, Jeremy Ruston  wrote:
>
>
> On 20 Nov 2018, at 12:14, Alex Hough  wrote:
>
>
> any thoughts on how to make a muti-page booklet?
>
>
> It’s not quite what you want, but I’ve always loved the venerable
> TiddlyPocketBook:
>
> https://blog.whatfettle.com/2010/09/15/tiddlypocketbook/
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy
>
>
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> 
> .
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Re: [tw5] Publication Quality Contents Using Tiddlywiki

[Jeremy Ruston]

The waybackmachine to the rescue:

https://web.archive.org/web/20100225222805/http://tiddlypocketbook.com:80/ 


Best wishes

Jeremy

> On 20 Nov 2018, at 12:25, Jeremy Ruston  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 20 Nov 2018, at 12:14, Alex Hough > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> any thoughts on how to make a muti-page booklet?
> 
> It’s not quite what you want, but I’ve always loved the venerable 
> TiddlyPocketBook:
> 
> https://blog.whatfettle.com/2010/09/15/tiddlypocketbook/ 
> 
> 
> Best wishes
> 
> Jeremy

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Re: [tw5] Publication Quality Contents Using Tiddlywiki

[Ste Wilson]

Alas it seems to have vanished with tiddlyspace... 

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Re: [tw5] Publication Quality Contents Using Tiddlywiki

[Jeremy Ruston]

> On 20 Nov 2018, at 12:14, Alex Hough  wrote:
> 
> 
> any thoughts on how to make a muti-page booklet?

It’s not quite what you want, but I’ve always loved the venerable 
TiddlyPocketBook:

https://blog.whatfettle.com/2010/09/15/tiddlypocketbook/ 


Best wishes

Jeremy

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Re: [tw5] Publication Quality Contents Using Tiddlywiki

[Alex Hough]

I was thinking about the same, only making a print magazine

Its about matching the tiddler size to the paper size, in my case each page
would be A5

any thoughts on how to make a muti-page booklet?

Alex

On Mon, 19 Nov 2018 at 15:05, Jan  wrote:

> Hi Mohammad,
> for me the biggest problem in using TW for scientific publications was
> footnotes. Thomas Elminger helped me with a plugin to solve this:
> http://slidesnstories.tiddlyspot.com/#About%20Footnotes.
> There you also find my variant of Alberto Molinas ScholarTabs which is
> called MetaTabs and the storysaver Plugin which allows to save sets of
> tiddlers and reload the to the story.
>
> Cheers Jan
>
> Am 19.11.2018 um 10:17 schrieb Mohammad:
>
> Is it possible to configure tiddlers for preparing high quality contents
> and print to pdf?
> This because I want to see if there is any experience to use Tiddlywiki
> like Ms Word or Latex
> for preparing publication quality contents?
>
> Any idea / sharing experiences / resources are appreciated!
>
> In my opinion we need some tools, some are already ready as plugin for
> Tiddlywiki!
>
>
>
> Mohammad
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Re: [tw5] Publication Quality Contents Using Tiddlywiki

[Jan]

Hi Mohammad,
for me the biggest problem in using TW for scientific publications was 
footnotes. Thomas Elminger helped me with a plugin to solve this:

http://slidesnstories.tiddlyspot.com/#About%20Footnotes.
There you also find my variant of Alberto Molinas ScholarTabs which is 
called MetaTabs and the storysaver Plugin which allows to save sets of 
tiddlers and reload the to the story.


Cheers Jan

Am 19.11.2018 um 10:17 schrieb Mohammad:
Is it possible to configure tiddlers for preparing high quality 
contents and print to pdf?
This because I want to see if there is any experience to use 
Tiddlywiki like Ms Word or Latex

for preparing publication quality contents?

Any idea / sharing experiences / resources are appreciated!

In my opinion we need some tools, some are already ready as plugin for 
Tiddlywiki!




Mohammad
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[tw5] Publication Quality Contents Using Tiddlywiki

[Mohammad]

Is it possible to configure tiddlers for preparing high quality contents 
and print to pdf?
This because I want to see if there is any experience to use Tiddlywiki 
like Ms Word or Latex
for preparing publication quality contents?

Any idea / sharing experiences / resources are appreciated!

In my opinion we need some tools, some are already ready as plugin for 
Tiddlywiki!



Mohammad

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