[tw5] Re: Roam-y style linking for TiddlyWiki, first attempt

[Jack Baty]

Consider me excited! :).

On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 10:00:47 AM UTC-5, David Gifford wrote:
>
> How would you like 95%? My Roam-y, especially with today's changes, 
> already take care of your bolded stuff. :-)
>
> On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 8:50:38 AM UTC-6, Jack Baty wrote:
>>
>> I've been keeping a TiddlyWiki vs Roam tiddler here: 
>> https://rudimentarylathe.org/#TiddlyWiki%20vs%20Roam
>>
>> The bold bits are what I find most valuable with Roam. With TiddlyWiki, I 
>> feel like between automatic, contextual backlinks, direct links from 
>> transcluded content to its source, and automatic tiddler creation I'd feel 
>> 90% of the way there. Just that :).
>>
>> On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 9:14:29 AM UTC-5, David Gifford wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you all for your comments:
>>>
>>> *Jack: *Any thoughts on other ways to make TiddlyWiki function more 
>>> like Roam, or even better?
>>>



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[tw5] Re: Roam-y style linking for TiddlyWiki, first attempt

[David Gifford]

How would you like 95%? My Roam-y, especially with today's changes, already 
take care of your bolded stuff. :-)

On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 8:50:38 AM UTC-6, Jack Baty wrote:
>
> I've been keeping a TiddlyWiki vs Roam tiddler here: 
> https://rudimentarylathe.org/#TiddlyWiki%20vs%20Roam
>
> The bold bits are what I find most valuable with Roam. With TiddlyWiki, I 
> feel like between automatic, contextual backlinks, direct links from 
> transcluded content to its source, and automatic tiddler creation I'd feel 
> 90% of the way there. Just that :).
>
> On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 9:14:29 AM UTC-5, David Gifford wrote:
>>
>> Thank you all for your comments:
>>
>> *Jack: *Any thoughts on other ways to make TiddlyWiki function more like 
>> Roam, or even better?
>>
>>>
>>>

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[tw5] Re: Roam-y style linking for TiddlyWiki, first attempt

[Jack Baty]

I've been keeping a TiddlyWiki vs Roam tiddler 
here: https://rudimentarylathe.org/#TiddlyWiki%20vs%20Roam

The bold bits are what I find most valuable with Roam. With TiddlyWiki, I 
feel like between automatic, contextual backlinks, direct links from 
transcluded content to its source, and automatic tiddler creation I'd feel 
90% of the way there. Just that :).

On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 9:14:29 AM UTC-5, David Gifford wrote:
>
> Thank you all for your comments:
>
> *Jack: *Any thoughts on other ways to make TiddlyWiki function more like 
> Roam, or even better?
>
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Roam-y style linking for TiddlyWiki, first attempt

[David Gifford]

Thank you all for your comments:

*Jack: *Any thoughts on other ways to make TiddlyWiki function more like 
Roam, or even better?

*Mohammad and HC: *

Mohammad I will make the reference to 'linked and unlinked' clearer.

HC yes, I saw your TOC generic and in a way was trying to improve on it to 
make it more Roam-y. Thanks for the inspiration. But I think yours is 
probably superior in one way since it grabs references to tags and list 
field, etc. I need to study your plugin and Flibbles Relink to see how they 
scan for references. That may be beyond my skill level, but you never 
know...

Here are the new ideas I have to make this even more interesting, and I 
know how to do all these and hope to do them today:

1. Hide tiddler titles in transclude view. Just pure notes. The gray boxes 
are links to the tiddlers anyway. Would be the default viewing option.
2. A tweaked clone button that adds a link to the parent tiddler to the new 
tiddler. Great for creating notes, say, when reading a book. They 
automatically get viewed in the book's reference section.
3. A new journal button with datetimestamp to the second, for loose notes.
4. Incorporate the full screen editor plugin.

I was testing the Roam-y yesterday afternoon, reading electronic books on 
the Bible and adding sources and notes. This already turbo-charged my note 
taking. Imagine how it will be with the changes above. This is exciting. 
This burst of inspiration from Roam may be just what TiddlyWiki was waiting 
for.


On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 1:55:13 PM UTC-6, David Gifford wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> Here is what I am playing with. Thanks to Mat and Mark for their help so 
> far. Still need help, from them or others, to get this right! (see the link 
> for the help I need)
>
> https://giffmex.org/experiments/roamwiki.experiment.html
>
> Dave
>

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[tw5] Re: Roam-y style linking for TiddlyWiki, first attempt

[Jack Baty]

I've been practically living in Roam for the past six weeks and the way it 
handles and presents bi-directional linking is the game changer for me. 
It's the *context* that makes all the difference. I display backlinks in 
TiddlyWiki all the time, but only seeing the linked tiddler's title isn't 
that helpful. It forces me to click the link and scan the target tiddler 
for the actual reference. With Roam, that context is always *right there*. 
This is the critical part for me. 

Thanks for working on this, Dave. It's very Roam-like! :)

Jack

On Sunday, January 26, 2020 at 10:49:51 AM UTC-5, David Gifford wrote:
>
> A big thanks to Mark S. for all his help yesterday!
>
> Here is the link again, to the updated file: 
> https://giffmex.org/experiments/roamwiki.experiment.html
>
>
>- Bi-directional linking between tiddlers
>- Based on both linked and unlinked references to the current 
>tiddler's title
>- Regardless of capitalization
>- Options to view as simple links, as transcluded tiddlers or as 
>highlighted search results in context. Or just hide them. 
>- Thanks to Danielo's context plugin.
>   - Snowgoon88's comptext plugin makes linking faster, too. We take 
>off our hats to him or her, and to the fallen 87 snow goons who went 
> before.
>
> Two notes:
>
> 1. I used checkboxes to toggle each viewing option on or off. I am sure 
> there are ways to make a button that both adds a tag to one tiddler and 
> removes tags from other tiddlers, but the TiddlyWiki documentation lacks 
> examples of how to do that. Very strange omission.
>
> 2. For anyone who wants to tweak and bundle this as a plugin, be my guest. 
> The relevant tiddlers are listed in the file. 
>

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[tw5] Re: Roam-y style linking for TiddlyWiki, first attempt

[HC Haase]

Very interesting.. I will have to play a bit more with this.

Your bi-directional linking 

 
thread (and roam) was what got me inspired to make the TOC generic 
 plugin. 
Please have a look. My plugin shows all references for all tiddlers, but 
only when they are there. It is my attempt to make connections more visible.
This experiment however is interesting because you can see the information 
inside the tiddler and not just lists.
Maybe you could use some of the TOC generic plugin, to only show the menus 
if there is something in them.

I will explore this more.

lørdag den 25. januar 2020 kl. 20.55.13 UTC+1 skrev David Gifford:
>
> Hi all
>
> Here is what I am playing with. Thanks to Mat and Mark for their help so 
> far. Still need help, from them or others, to get this right! (see the link 
> for the help I need)
>
> https://giffmex.org/experiments/roamwiki.experiment.html
>
> Dave
>

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Re: [tw5] Re: Roam-y style linking for TiddlyWiki, first attempt

[Mohammad Rahmani]

Hi David,

Great tool.
Two comments
--from introductory one cannot understand what is the difference between
linked and unlinked
add a little descrition like linked (e.g `[[test]]`) and unlinked ()

-- Flibbles Relink plugin actually finds all type of reference in a tiddler
why not share your idea with him and see how use his code in this Roam app.

--Mohammad



Best wishes
Mohammad


On Sun, Jan 26, 2020 at 7:19 PM David Gifford  wrote:

> A big thanks to Mark S. for all his help yesterday!
>
> Here is the link again, to the updated file:
> https://giffmex.org/experiments/roamwiki.experiment.html
>
>
>- Bi-directional linking between tiddlers
>- Based on both linked and unlinked references to the current
>tiddler's title
>- Regardless of capitalization
>- Options to view as simple links, as transcluded tiddlers or as
>highlighted search results in context. Or just hide them.
>- Thanks to Danielo's context plugin.
>   - Snowgoon88's comptext plugin makes linking faster, too. We take
>off our hats to him or her, and to the fallen 87 snow goons who went 
> before.
>
> Two notes:
>
> 1. I used checkboxes to toggle each viewing option on or off. I am sure
> there are ways to make a button that both adds a tag to one tiddler and
> removes tags from other tiddlers, but the TiddlyWiki documentation lacks
> examples of how to do that. Very strange omission.
>
> 2. For anyone who wants to tweak and bundle this as a plugin, be my guest.
> The relevant tiddlers are:
>
> $:/.giffmex/.Stylesheet4roamy
> $:/.giffmex/ViewTemplate/button/viewfullnotes
> $:/.giffmex/ViewTemplate/refscontext
> $:/.giffmex/ViewTemplate/refslinks
> $:/.giffmex/ViewTemplate/refstransclude
> $:/plugins/danielo515/context/css
> $:/plugins/danielo515/ContextPlugin
> $:/plugins/flibbles/relink
> $:/plugins/snowgoon88/edit-comptext
> $:/plugins/snowgoon88/edit-comptext/config
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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[tw5] Re: Roam-y style linking for TiddlyWiki, first attempt

[David Gifford]

A big thanks to Mark S. for all his help yesterday!

Here is the link again, to the updated file: 
https://giffmex.org/experiments/roamwiki.experiment.html


   - Bi-directional linking between tiddlers
   - Based on both linked and unlinked references to the current tiddler's 
   title
   - Regardless of capitalization
   - Options to view as simple links, as transcluded tiddlers or as 
   highlighted search results in context. Or just hide them. 
   - Thanks to Danielo's context plugin.
  - Snowgoon88's comptext plugin makes linking faster, too. We take off 
   our hats to him or her, and to the fallen 87 snow goons who went before.
   
Two notes:

1. I used checkboxes to toggle each viewing option on or off. I am sure 
there are ways to make a button that both adds a tag to one tiddler and 
removes tags from other tiddlers, but the TiddlyWiki documentation lacks 
examples of how to do that. Very strange omission.

2. For anyone who wants to tweak and bundle this as a plugin, be my guest. 
The relevant tiddlers are: 

$:/.giffmex/.Stylesheet4roamy
$:/.giffmex/ViewTemplate/button/viewfullnotes 
$:/.giffmex/ViewTemplate/refscontext 
$:/.giffmex/ViewTemplate/refslinks 
$:/.giffmex/ViewTemplate/refstransclude 
$:/plugins/danielo515/context/css 
$:/plugins/danielo515/ContextPlugin 
$:/plugins/flibbles/relink 
$:/plugins/snowgoon88/edit-comptext 
$:/plugins/snowgoon88/edit-comptext/config 

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[tw5] Re: Roam-y style linking for TiddlyWiki, first attempt

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Well, the regexp needs to be escaped. Here's one attempt:

\define mycrit() (?i)\b$(searchspx)$\b
<$vars searchme=<> searchspx={{{ [
escaperegexp[]]}}} >

(click any gray box below to access its tiddler)<
br>
<$list filter="[!is[system]regexp:textsort[title]] -[is[current]]"><
strong><$view field="title"/><$context term=<> />



But there seem to be some edge cases still. I'll let you discover them  ;-)

It might be that the regular expression needs to be tweaked in unexpected 
ways.



On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 8:20:25 PM UTC-8, David Gifford wrote:
>
> Thank you, Mark, that made the Context search work. I also added a little 
> CSS magic.
>
> I don't know if this was a problem before, or just started with these 
> changes, but now tiddlers with parentheses in the title do not list 
> anything.
>
> On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 6:06:15 PM UTC-6, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> The great thing about TW is how backward compatible it is.
>>
>> This seems to work:
>>
>> \define mycrit() (?i)\b$(currentTiddler)$\b
>> <$vars searchme=<>>
>> (click any gray box below to access its tiddler)> span>
>> <$list filter="[!is[system]regexp:textsort[title]] 
>> -[is[current]]"><$view field="title"/>> "indent1"><$context term=<> />> span>
>> 
>>
>>
>> Note that there is an undocumented (?) 3 character search term minimum. 
>> So my title "Hum" failed to work. But "Hummus" was much better. (I felt 
>> bad, and then I *falafel*.)
>>
>> I would imagine figuring out the fix for styles should be easy for the 
>> CSS experts in the forum.
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 2:55:50 PM UTC-8, David Gifford wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks Mark for your help on the mycrit definition! Worked like a charm!
>>>
>>> As for the context plugin, it did have a list filter option, but it 
>>> seemed pretty tied to $:/AdvancedSearch 
>>> , which I 
>>> am guessing is not invoked for this kind of list. The list filter example 
>>> Danielo had was for a list-search. Also, this plugin is really old. Danielo 
>>> still has tw- styles. Those got changed several years ago. I tried changing 
>>> those to tc- in the plugin but didn't help.
>>>
>>> I installed and refreshed the plugin, but this did not work:
>>>
>>> \define mycrit() (?i)\b$(currentTiddler)$\b
>>>
>>> (click any gray box below to access its 
>>> tiddler)
>>> <$list filter="[!is[system]regexp:textsort[title]] 
>>> -[is[current]]"><$view field="title"/>>> class="indent1"><$link><$context 
>>> term={{$:/temp/advancedsearch}} />
>>>
>>> On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 3:46:14 PM UTC-6, Mark S. wrote:

 Per your notes, it looks like you'll want to show context.

   Something like PR 2963 would make extracting context 
 much easier.

 Oh well.

 Checking the tiddlywiki toolmap (have you heard of it?) I found

 http://contextplugin.tiddlyspot.com/

 It looks like Danielo's "context" widget might do what you want.



 On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 11:55:13 AM UTC-8, David Gifford wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> Here is what I am playing with. Thanks to Mat and Mark for their help 
> so far. Still need help, from them or others, to get this right! (see the 
> link for the help I need)
>
> https://giffmex.org/experiments/roamwiki.experiment.html
>
> Dave
>


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[tw5] Re: Roam-y style linking for TiddlyWiki, first attempt

[David Gifford]

Thank you, Mark, that made the Context search work. I also added a little 
CSS magic.

I don't know if this was a problem before, or just started with these 
changes, but now tiddlers with parentheses in the title do not list 
anything.

On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 6:06:15 PM UTC-6, Mark S. wrote:
>
> The great thing about TW is how backward compatible it is.
>
> This seems to work:
>
> \define mycrit() (?i)\b$(currentTiddler)$\b
> <$vars searchme=<>>
> (click any gray box below to access its tiddler) >
> <$list filter="[!is[system]regexp:textsort[title]] -[is[current]]"
> ><$view field="title"/> "graybox"><$context term=<> />
> 
>
>
> Note that there is an undocumented (?) 3 character search term minimum. So 
> my title "Hum" failed to work. But "Hummus" was much better. (I felt bad, 
> and then I *falafel*.)
>
> I would imagine figuring out the fix for styles should be easy for the CSS 
> experts in the forum.
>
>
> On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 2:55:50 PM UTC-8, David Gifford wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Mark for your help on the mycrit definition! Worked like a charm!
>>
>> As for the context plugin, it did have a list filter option, but it 
>> seemed pretty tied to $:/AdvancedSearch 
>> , which I 
>> am guessing is not invoked for this kind of list. The list filter example 
>> Danielo had was for a list-search. Also, this plugin is really old. Danielo 
>> still has tw- styles. Those got changed several years ago. I tried changing 
>> those to tc- in the plugin but didn't help.
>>
>> I installed and refreshed the plugin, but this did not work:
>>
>> \define mycrit() (?i)\b$(currentTiddler)$\b
>>
>> (click any gray box below to access its 
>> tiddler)
>> <$list filter="[!is[system]regexp:textsort[title]] 
>> -[is[current]]"><$view field="title"/>> class="indent1"><$link><$context 
>> term={{$:/temp/advancedsearch}} />
>>
>> On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 3:46:14 PM UTC-6, Mark S. wrote:
>>>
>>> Per your notes, it looks like you'll want to show context.
>>>
>>>   Something like PR 2963 would make extracting context 
>>> much easier.
>>>
>>> Oh well.
>>>
>>> Checking the tiddlywiki toolmap (have you heard of it?) I found
>>>
>>> http://contextplugin.tiddlyspot.com/
>>>
>>> It looks like Danielo's "context" widget might do what you want.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 11:55:13 AM UTC-8, David Gifford wrote:

 Hi all

 Here is what I am playing with. Thanks to Mat and Mark for their help 
 so far. Still need help, from them or others, to get this right! (see the 
 link for the help I need)

 https://giffmex.org/experiments/roamwiki.experiment.html

 Dave

>>>

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[tw5] Re: Roam-y style linking for TiddlyWiki, first attempt

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

The great thing about TW is how backward compatible it is.

This seems to work:

\define mycrit() (?i)\b$(currentTiddler)$\b
<$vars searchme=<>>
(click any gray box below to access its tiddler)<
br>
<$list filter="[!is[system]regexp:textsort[title]] -[is[current]]"><
strong><$view field="title"/><$context term=<> />



Note that there is an undocumented (?) 3 character search term minimum. So 
my title "Hum" failed to work. But "Hummus" was much better. (I felt bad, 
and then I *falafel*.)

I would imagine figuring out the fix for styles should be easy for the CSS 
experts in the forum.


On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 2:55:50 PM UTC-8, David Gifford wrote:
>
> Thanks Mark for your help on the mycrit definition! Worked like a charm!
>
> As for the context plugin, it did have a list filter option, but it seemed 
> pretty tied to $:/AdvancedSearch 
> , which I 
> am guessing is not invoked for this kind of list. The list filter example 
> Danielo had was for a list-search. Also, this plugin is really old. Danielo 
> still has tw- styles. Those got changed several years ago. I tried changing 
> those to tc- in the plugin but didn't help.
>
> I installed and refreshed the plugin, but this did not work:
>
> \define mycrit() (?i)\b$(currentTiddler)$\b
>
> (click any gray box below to access its 
> tiddler)
> <$list filter="[!is[system]regexp:textsort[title]] 
> -[is[current]]"><$view field="title"/> class="indent1"><$link><$context 
> term={{$:/temp/advancedsearch}} />
>
> On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 3:46:14 PM UTC-6, Mark S. wrote:
>>
>> Per your notes, it looks like you'll want to show context.
>>
>>   Something like PR 2963 would make extracting context much 
>> easier.
>>
>> Oh well.
>>
>> Checking the tiddlywiki toolmap (have you heard of it?) I found
>>
>> http://contextplugin.tiddlyspot.com/
>>
>> It looks like Danielo's "context" widget might do what you want.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 11:55:13 AM UTC-8, David Gifford wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> Here is what I am playing with. Thanks to Mat and Mark for their help so 
>>> far. Still need help, from them or others, to get this right! (see the link 
>>> for the help I need)
>>>
>>> https://giffmex.org/experiments/roamwiki.experiment.html
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: Roam-y style linking for TiddlyWiki, first attempt

[David Gifford]

Thanks Mark for your help on the mycrit definition! Worked like a charm!

As for the context plugin, it did have a list filter option, but it seemed 
pretty tied to $:/AdvancedSearch 
, which I am 
guessing is not invoked for this kind of list. The list filter example 
Danielo had was for a list-search. Also, this plugin is really old. Danielo 
still has tw- styles. Those got changed several years ago. I tried changing 
those to tc- in the plugin but didn't help.

I installed and refreshed the plugin, but this did not work:

\define mycrit() (?i)\b$(currentTiddler)$\b

(click any gray box below to access its 
tiddler)
<$list filter="[!is[system]regexp:textsort[title]] 
-[is[current]]"><$view field="title"/><$link><$context 
term={{$:/temp/advancedsearch}} />

On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 3:46:14 PM UTC-6, Mark S. wrote:
>
> Per your notes, it looks like you'll want to show context.
>
>   Something like PR 2963 would make extracting context much 
> easier.
>
> Oh well.
>
> Checking the tiddlywiki toolmap (have you heard of it?) I found
>
> http://contextplugin.tiddlyspot.com/
>
> It looks like Danielo's "context" widget might do what you want.
>
>
>
> On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 11:55:13 AM UTC-8, David Gifford wrote:
>>
>> Hi all
>>
>> Here is what I am playing with. Thanks to Mat and Mark for their help so 
>> far. Still need help, from them or others, to get this right! (see the link 
>> for the help I need)
>>
>> https://giffmex.org/experiments/roamwiki.experiment.html
>>
>> Dave
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Roam-y style linking for TiddlyWiki, first attempt

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Per your notes, it looks like you'll want to show context.

  Something like PR 2963 would make extracting context much 
easier.

Oh well.

Checking the tiddlywiki toolmap (have you heard of it?) I found

http://contextplugin.tiddlyspot.com/

It looks like Danielo's "context" widget might do what you want.



On Saturday, January 25, 2020 at 11:55:13 AM UTC-8, David Gifford wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> Here is what I am playing with. Thanks to Mat and Mark for their help so 
> far. Still need help, from them or others, to get this right! (see the link 
> for the help I need)
>
> https://giffmex.org/experiments/roamwiki.experiment.html
>
> Dave
>

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