Re: [tw] Re: quotes: curly and not; spaces: double or single. Typography for Lawyers
Hi Craig,
Thanks for the comprehensive answer, there is some useful stuff here
for me and my team to help us make a decision on our style.
Do a recall correctly that you have a background in technical
authorship? Do you have a favourite set of conventions of typography?
On 25 April 2010 22:42, Craig in Calgary craig.prich...@gmail.com wrote:
Alex,
It is most regrettable that I didn't see your last post before
completing my research. For anyone interested I will post it here
anyway.
Alex,
First, I'm confused by apparently contradictory statements:
Some requests for from the group have included;
*double space after paragraphs
*no curly quotes
It appears that
*TW removes double spaces from texts cut and pasted from Word
*word processors change all your quotes to curly for you, but when you
cut and paste into TW, the curly quotes revert to straight ones.
The problem for me is that I find myself in a loop where corrections
are being made on my TW document using Word. I cut and paste the exact
text, yet to the proof reader, it appears that no change has been
made.
It would be nice if the TW version could output a singe spaced and
curly quoted document paper document...
The group has requested no curly quotes but you're asking for curly
quotes. I copied some curly-quoted text from Word into a tiddler and
it remained curly-quoted. When copied back into Word it still
maintained the curly quotes, i.e. the round-trip didn't convert curly
quotes ({{{‘}}} = HEX {{{%91}}}, {{{’}}} = HEX {{{%92}}}, {{{“}}} =
HEX {{{%93}}}, and {{{”}}} = HEX {{{%94}}}) into straight quotes.
I believe the confusion comes from the last sentence in the Typography
for Lawyers article, Before you exclaim “that won’t do anything!”,
try it. When Word or WP replaces each quote mark, it also performs the
straight-to-curly conversion. This conversion is a configuration
option (AutoCorrect Options) which can be changed. In Word 2007,
select the Office Button (upper left corner), select the Word Options
command button next to the Exit Word command button, select the
Proofing topic (third down the left-side list), select the AutoCorrect
Options button in the AutoCorrect options section, then select the
AutoFormat As You Type tab. In the Replace as you type section there
is a checkbox for Straight quotes with smart quotes. Because this
option is selected by default, people assume that Word will always do
this for them. With this option selected, when you type, single and
double straight quotes are converted to curly quotes. If you disable
(unselect) the checkbox, whatever kind of single or double quote you
type will not be changed to its curly equivalent. What the author of
the article didn't test is what Word does with ''pasted'' text.
Whether this option is selected or not, Word does ''not'' convert
pasted text. If you perform a search and replace (Ctrl+H) and type the
same single or double quote character into both the Find what combo
box and the Replace with combo box, Word will convert the straight
quotes to curly quotes for you.
Regarding double space after paragraphs, the trick here is to modify
the paragraph style in both TiddlyWiki and Word.
In TiddlyWiki: From [[Suppress blank lines (crlf) in rendered tiddler
content|http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki/t/ef902f93b917345/
a4f4c079492e3ce8]] I obtained
http://a-pm-experimental.tiddlyspot.com/#LineBreakHack.
This plugin will remove all the extra crlfs from tiddler content
before rendering the tiddler in the TiddlyWiki. I do not know how to
modify the code to wikify all linebreaks into two (2) br's (which
would render your tiddler content with a double-space between
paragraphs). However, the presence of this plugin ''will'' allow your
editors to place an extra crlf in their content for readability during
editing. If you implement this plugin, I would suggest that when you
want to port a tiddler's content to Word, select the text to copy into
the clipboard from the rendered tiddler, not from the tiddler in edit
mode. That way no extra crlfs will be introduced into Word.
In Word:
#Create a paragraph Style (mine is named SpaceAfterParagraph).
#Select the Format command button and select Paragraph from the
dropdown.
#On the Indents and Spacing tab of the Paragraph dialog:
**Set Line spacing to Single
**Set Spacing After to 24 pt. Assuming your default font size is 12
pt, 24 pt represents a double space.
#Save your changes to the Paragraph dialog and the new paragraph
Style.
#Apply this style to all appropriate paragraphs.
Following is a macro I created that:
*pastes the contents of the clipboard into the Word document
*performs a search and replace on single quotes throughout the entire
document (quotes which are curly will remain so)
*performs a search and replace on double quotes throughout the entire
document (quotes which are curly will remain so)
*performs a search on the Normal paragraph
Re: [tw] Re: quotes: curly and not; spaces: double or single. Typography for Lawyers
Blame it all on the typewriter. Before the typewriter, all printed text came through a print house, with trained people. The typewriter introduced the printed page to the average business person. But it had its faults, which were mainly due to the limited number of keys that humans could reach with 10 digits, within the simplified mechanics of the day. One of the major problems was that the beautiful proportional font mechanism of professionally printed material could not be accommodated with the typewriter. So a period (.) took up the same amount of space as an em (M). All characters were the same size -- monospaced. The automatic clumping of letters into words did not exist. So one of the ways it was made easier to read, was to introduce some new conventions, which still pervade in the business world. One of them was to put two spaces at the end of a sentence. Another was to put an extra line at the end of a paragraph, to split paragraphs. This latter was combined with the no indent convention for a paragraph. Maybe that came about because setting the tab on a typewriter was a complex task for the typist, and they could not count 5 spaces accurately every time they started a new paragraph. The use of underlines to indicate titles was necessitated because italics were not possible on a typewriter, and English has, of yet, not developed a delimiting character set for titles. We do have quotes for chapter and article titles. But then, we use, on a typewriter, the same characters to indicate actual speech. It gets really difficult to indicate quotes within a chapter title. One solution is to use both single and double quotes. The single quote character used at both ends of the delimited text came about because it required only one key, not two, on the keyboard. That was the death knell for the curly quotes, until the computer screen came along. To make it even more awkward, with the introduction of computerized printouts, two characters became common at the end of a line. (It has nothing to do with a paragraph.) This came about because the ASCII character 13 meant end of line. The printer would then automatically slide the print head to the beginning of the line. The computer would then direct the printer to move the print head forward an appropriate amount and stick in underlines, diacriticals, and the like. Then the ASCII character 10 would be sent directing the printer to roll up the paper to the next line. A typist had to do the same sort of thing. They tended to use the backspace to move backwards to add the underlines and diacriticals. Then they pulled that magic handle with their right hand which automatically slide the paper up a line and the page to the right edge. Note that printers move the print head, typists move the paper. But, new inventions came along, including electric typewriters that moved the print head. To this day, the use of ASCII character 13 has not yet been standardized. Apple Computers use it to indicate the end of a paragraph, whereas Microsoft computers use it together with character 10 to indicate the end of a paragraph. But many eMail programs insert one or the other automatically at the end of a line, assuming line lengths of 60, 80, 120 or whatever. To put it succinctly: Copy and Paste between programs and/or operating systems with simple text is not simple! There are no universally accepted conventions. Nor are there likely to be within the foreseeable future. And the English language has a lot more than 26 characters, in spite of what your teachers may have told you. Doug On 2010-04-25, at 2:20 PM, Alex Hough wrote: Hi Craig, Hold the horses before detailing the requests! I think the solution to this problem lies with convincing the user group that single spaces between sentences is *the* way to go instead of accommodating their request. It is a fact that any professional document – a newspaper, a book – does have only one space after a sentence. Thanks to Typography for Lawyers [1] for pointing this out to me. TW automatically changes double spaces to single, and this has caused a glitch in our proofing system. Curly quotes are new to me. They are different to straight quotes. To illustrate compare the two quotes: This is the one, sang the Stone Roses “This is the one”, sang the Stone Roses The latter uses curly quotes. “I don't like those ‘tadpole quotes’ you are using”, said the proof reader But I am not using 'em, I said. The truth was that both proof reader and I were (kind of) right. I think Word was converting cut and pasted TiddlyText containing my straight quotes into curly quotes because Word thought the that was the thing that the proof reader wanted. It was not. However, looking into the issue, I have found out about the curly quote, and I have become a fan. I'm seeing them everywhere now. “Curly quotes are cool!”, said Dan from Galooph this morning “But how do you
Re: [tw] Re: quotes: curly and not; spaces: double or single. Typography for Lawyers
Hi Craig, Hold the horses before detailing the requests! I think the solution to this problem lies with convincing the user group that single spaces between sentences is *the* way to go instead of accommodating their request. It is a fact that any professional document – a newspaper, a book – does have only one space after a sentence. Thanks to Typography for Lawyers [1] for pointing this out to me. TW automatically changes double spaces to single, and this has caused a glitch in our proofing system. Curly quotes are new to me. They are different to straight quotes. To illustrate compare the two quotes: This is the one, sang the Stone Roses “This is the one”, sang the Stone Roses The latter uses curly quotes. “I don't like those ‘tadpole quotes’ you are using”, said the proof reader But I am not using 'em, I said. The truth was that both proof reader and I were (kind of) right. I think Word was converting cut and pasted TiddlyText containing my straight quotes into curly quotes because Word thought the that was the thing that the proof reader wanted. It was not. However, looking into the issue, I have found out about the curly quote, and I have become a fan. I'm seeing them everywhere now. “Curly quotes are cool!”, said Dan from Galooph this morning “But how do you make them”, I said. Dan opened terminal on is Mac. “alt open square bracket for the opening quote and shift alt square bracket to close”, he explained showing the effects as he typed. Thanks for all the help. I think I am on track now. ALex ps More details here about quotes here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark#Typing_quotation_marks_on_a_computer_keyboard On 24 April 2010 18:15, whatever kbrezov...@gmail.com wrote: Does this help: http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki/browse_thread/thread/c494323149288239/7fcf98e415b75150 It's a Word macro for converting formated text to tiddlywiki style. It could be modified to suit your formatting requirements. w On Apr 24, 4:45 pm, Craig in Calgary craig.prich...@gmail.com wrote: Alex, I'll post a reply detailing how to accomplish both requests later today. Right now I have to go to my daughter's convocation. Craig -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlyw...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlyw...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en. -- http://www.multiurl.com/g/64 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups TiddlyWiki group. To post to this group, send email to tiddlyw...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to tiddlywiki+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/tiddlywiki?hl=en.
