Re: [tw5] Re: dynamically building a string by concatenation in a macro
@jeremy thanks for the clarification. So it seems that you can correctly
(in the sense of *syntactically* correct) use a macro call as argument of a
widget attribute, but functionally fail to have it work as intended. This
shows clearly that TW is way too much stuffed with booby-traps and
something must be definitely done to make coding easier and safer for the
average user.
We need a stricter syntax, even at the expense of flexibility, to spare the
user from these pitfalls, and we need debugging tools to make him easily
single out the problem when syntax doesn't help. We cannot go on relying on
knowledge of how the parser and 'wikifier' behaves, it simply cannot be
viable if TW is to become widely used as is everybody's wish.
I'm not a complete beginner in programming, and as a matter of fact I spend
50% of coding time trying to debug obscure malfunctioning that mostly turns
out to require a developer-level knowledge of the parser to be worked out:
I dare say that this scares away a lot of would-be users after the first,
frustrating attempts.
In the meantime that TW morphs to something less tricky, a huge effort
should be done IMHO in bettering the documentation so that the user is
aware of the pitfalls left open by its syntax.
Thanks and regards,
CG
On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 11:05:03 PM UTC+2 jeremy...@gmail.com
wrote:
> Hi Charlie
>
> I often say "first things first, consider upgrading", but 5.2.1 has the
> same issue. So I say stick with what you have if it is working no-worse
> than the latest.
>
>
> The problem is that the OP is using the macro "templatename" as an
> attribute value in the `<$action-createtiddler>` widget, which means that
> wikitext content will not be processed ("wikified"), so the transclusion in
> the macro is ignored.
>
> The workaround is to use textual substitution within the macro (in other
> words the $param$ and $(var)$ syntax).
>
> As for bug-reporting, that, to me, is a crappy process that needs some
> tender loving care, including a need to update the related circa 2014
> documentation (ReportingBugs ).
>
>
> "Crappy"?
>
> It would be more helpful to explain the specific problems you see, and
> perhaps suggest improvements.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy
>
>
> Rock'n roll !
>
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 4:31:45 PM UTC-4 CarloGgi wrote:
>
>> It worked like a charm, thanks!
>> If it is really a bug, is there a dedicated place to submit it for
>> analysis?
>>
>> My TW version is 5.2.0
>>
>> Thanks again and regards,
>> CG
>>
>> On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 9:57:46 PM UTC+2 cj.v...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> TiddlyTalk is a pain. Let me try pasting that code again so that it
>>> shows okay over there.
>>>
>>> ```
>>> <$button>
>>> <$action-createtiddler
>>> $basetitle="testTiddler"
>>> $template={{{ [[BASENAME-]addsuffix{!!grammar_class}]
>>> }}} >
>>>
>>> <$action-navigate $to=<>/>
>>>
>>> create new test tiddler
>>>
>>> ```
>>>
>>> On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 3:53:48 PM UTC-4 Charlie Veniot wrote:
>>>
I'm thinking you found a bug related to how the action-createtiddler
handles the $template parameter.
In the meantime (i.e. until there is a fix or somebody can explain this
"feature" going on) ...
The following seems to work A-1 for me in my testing (ignore the "pre"
tags):
<$button>
<$action-createtiddler
$basetitle="testTiddler"
$template={{{ [[BASENAME-]addsuffix{!!grammar_class}]
}}} >
<$action-navigate $to=<>/>
create new test tiddler
On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 2:07:59 PM UTC-4 CarloGgi wrote:
> hallo folks,
> i need to feed the $template parameter of an <$action-createtiddler>
> widget with the correct template tiddler's name. The latter has a fixed
> part 'BASENAME' and a parameterized (or variable) suffix, which is
> choosen
> by means of a <$select> input. The idea is to have a macro build the full
> name based on the choice made by using <$select>, like in:
>
> \define templatename() BASENAME-{{!!grammar_class}}
>
> the suffix, as you can imagine, is taken from field grammar_class
> which is set by the <$select> widget control.
>
> Now one would expect that things would work nice and easy writing this
> code:
>
> <$button> create new test tiddler
> <$action-createtiddler
> $basetitle='testTiddler'
> $template=<> >
> <$action-navigate $to=<>/>
>
>
>
> but disappointingly enough they do not! The new tiddler is created
> indeed, but from NO TEMPLATE at all!
> Funny as it is, if we add a debug line like:
>
Re: [tw5] Re: dynamically building a string by concatenation in a macro
Simply stated: use a Google Form (or something similar) to submit bugs.
- Cognitively and in terms of sensory-overload, Github is brutal in
general, but especially when one is dealing with a cognitive disability. I
can't offer up suggestions on how to change the Github interface, because I
don't know if it is possible to change it, and it is too overwhelming for
me to go digging into it to figure that out
- Both Github and that ReportingBugs tiddler: way too frigging much
to look at, everything is competing for attention, and I have
attention-regulation difficulties, so I don't know where to look: I
desperately want to just click a button and type in text related to a
problem
- A major turn off for anybody not technically inclined, and a turnoff
to create yet another account somewhere just to report a bug
- sure a person does not need to use Github to report a bug, but the
documentation on reporting bugs gives so much prominence to github, that
it
feels like it is the preferred method, and the other options seem like an
afterthought, a kind of "if you must";
- regardless, how many clicks does it take to report a bug? Way more
effort than it should be looking at that ReportingBugs tiddler
- Yeah, I'm a career Information Systems Programmer/Analyst, but I
don't like technical when I'm wearing my "user" hat
- The ReportingBugs documentation needs to be simplified something
silly: ideally, it should have only this one line: "click on this
link/button and fill out this bug report form"
- If everything else really matters, cleave that into some other
tiddler called something like "Bug Management", and put a link to that
mess
of details on the ReportingBugs tiddler for the few folk who really want
to see all of that
- Use a simple and friendly form (Google Forms or other) that requires
no account and no sign: one standard spot with just the necessary
help/documentation to submit a bug from that spot; how that bug is managed
after I hit Submit, I don't care (but if you want to add a note at the
bottom about tracking the bug in Github, that's A-1)
- I'm no fan of using posts in discussion groups for reporting bugs;
better a visible link/button to click on and get to that form and filling
it out
- But TiddlyTalk is, to me, a much better place to discuss a bug
(from user perspective, not technical discussions), so something that
generates a post in TiddlyTalk (as part of submitting a form, or as
part of
processing the form, or whatever), that would be cool.
- Regardless, if I want to report a bug, I'm likely to go to
TiddlyWiki.com, and click on a "report a bug" button
Now everything to me is connected to everything else. So I could go on and
on and on. But there are too many intertwingled details in my head to sort
out and neatly summarize.
If I'm sounding always frustrated and annoyed, it is because I am
cognitively overstimulated (along with sensory overload) 24x7. The
question of how to report a bug should have been as easy as me simply
saying: click on this button. But it isn't. And now I'm consumed by
thoughts of "why do they make things so busy and/or complicated?" And now
I'm in a rabbit hole I really don't want to be in. Mmm, rabbit ...
On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 5:05:03 PM UTC-4 jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi Charlie
>
> I often say "first things first, consider upgrading", but 5.2.1 has the
> same issue. So I say stick with what you have if it is working no-worse
> than the latest.
>
>
> The problem is that the OP is using the macro "templatename" as an
> attribute value in the `<$action-createtiddler>` widget, which means that
> wikitext content will not be processed ("wikified"), so the transclusion in
> the macro is ignored.
>
> The workaround is to use textual substitution within the macro (in other
> words the $param$ and $(var)$ syntax).
>
> As for bug-reporting, that, to me, is a crappy process that needs some
> tender loving care, including a need to update the related circa 2014
> documentation (ReportingBugs ).
>
>
> "Crappy"?
>
> It would be more helpful to explain the specific problems you see, and
> perhaps suggest improvements.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy
>
>
> Rock'n roll !
>
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 4:31:45 PM UTC-4 CarloGgi wrote:
>
>> It worked like a charm, thanks!
>> If it is really a bug, is there a dedicated place to submit it for
>> analysis?
>>
>> My TW version is 5.2.0
>>
>> Thanks again and regards,
>> CG
>>
>> On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 9:57:46 PM UTC+2 cj.v...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> TiddlyTalk is a pain. Let me try pasting that code again so that it
>>> shows okay over there.
>>>
>>> ```
>>> <$button>
>>>
Re: [tw5] Re: dynamically building a string by concatenation in a macro
Hi Charlie
> I often say "first things first, consider upgrading", but 5.2.1 has the same
> issue. So I say stick with what you have if it is working no-worse than the
> latest.
The problem is that the OP is using the macro "templatename" as an attribute
value in the `<$action-createtiddler>` widget, which means that wikitext
content will not be processed ("wikified"), so the transclusion in the macro is
ignored.
The workaround is to use textual substitution within the macro (in other words
the $param$ and $(var)$ syntax).
> As for bug-reporting, that, to me, is a crappy process that needs some tender
> loving care, including a need to update the related circa 2014 documentation
> (ReportingBugs).
"Crappy"?
It would be more helpful to explain the specific problems you see, and perhaps
suggest improvements.
Best wishes
Jeremy
>
> Rock'n roll !
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 4:31:45 PM UTC-4 CarloGgi wrote:
>> It worked like a charm, thanks!
>> If it is really a bug, is there a dedicated place to submit it for analysis?
>>
>> My TW version is 5.2.0
>>
>> Thanks again and regards,
>> CG
>>
>>> On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 9:57:46 PM UTC+2 cj.v...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> TiddlyTalk is a pain. Let me try pasting that code again so that it shows
>>> okay over there.
>>>
>>> ```
>>> <$button>
>>> <$action-createtiddler
>>> $basetitle="testTiddler"
>>> $template={{{ [[BASENAME-]addsuffix{!!grammar_class}] }}} >
>>>
>>> <$action-navigate $to=<>/>
>>>
>>> create new test tiddler
>>>
>>> ```
>>>
On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 3:53:48 PM UTC-4 Charlie Veniot wrote:
I'm thinking you found a bug related to how the action-createtiddler
handles the $template parameter.
In the meantime (i.e. until there is a fix or somebody can explain this
"feature" going on) ...
The following seems to work A-1 for me in my testing (ignore the "pre"
tags):
<$button>
<$action-createtiddler
$basetitle="testTiddler"
$template={{{ [[BASENAME-]addsuffix{!!grammar_class}] }}}
>
<$action-navigate $to=<>/>
create new test tiddler
> On Saturday, January 22, 2022 at 2:07:59 PM UTC-4 CarloGgi wrote:
> hallo folks,
> i need to feed the $template parameter of an <$action-createtiddler>
> widget with the correct template tiddler's name. The latter has a fixed
> part 'BASENAME' and a parameterized (or variable) suffix, which is
> choosen by means of a <$select> input. The idea is to have a macro build
> the full name based on the choice made by using <$select>, like in:
>
> \define templatename() BASENAME-{{!!grammar_class}}
>
> the suffix, as you can imagine, is taken from field grammar_class which
> is set by the <$select> widget control.
>
> Now one would expect that things would work nice and easy writing this
> code:
>
> <$button> create new test tiddler
> <$action-createtiddler
> $basetitle='testTiddler'
> $template=<> >
> <$action-navigate $to=<>/>
>
>
>
> but disappointingly enough they do not! The new tiddler is created
> indeed, but from NO TEMPLATE at all!
> Funny as it is, if we add a debug line like:
>
> template's name: <>
>
> it displays correctly as
>
> BASENAME-verb (or BASENAME-noun, or adjective, or whatever the
> <$select> choice was)
>
> Hard-coding the name in the macro makes the code work (just for testing
> purposes, there is no point here to have a macro just echoing an
> hard-coded string).
>
> Now, before I ask why ON EARTH the above code doesn't work, let me say
> that I expect for it to be because of how macros are parsed and when
> macro substitution is made, in which case I will do a little comment on
> it later.
>
> Thanks everybody,
> CG
>
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