Re: [twdev] Why plugin library to tw.com but not to any other wiki?

[Mat]

To follow up on my question about the call to tm-load-plugin-library as 
defined in $:/core/modules/browser-messaging.js 


It appears to me that using this call, the source side does need a special 
setup after all with a special library file such as:

https://tiddlywiki.com/library/v5.1.11/index.html that contains a special "
assetList"

...so to show items like this:  
$:/temp/RemoteAssetInfo/https://tiddlywiki.com/library/v5.1.19/index.html/$:/plugins/tiddlywiki/async
 


If this is the case, could the messaging widget be generalized to not 
demand anything special on the source side?

Thank you!

<:-)

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[twdev] Interesting hack save anything to any file

[TonyM]

Also

I would like a user to fill out a survey, save it as a json file the provide a 
mailto that attaches the file and send it to me.

Regards
Tony

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[twdev] Interesting hack save anything to any file

[TonyM]

I have being struggling to enable check in an out on wikis. To do this I need 
to read and write to the server. In this case a php server housing tw-reciever.

I just discovered if I change the save all filter and the tiddler wiki file 
name within tw-reciever the next save will save the subset of tiddlers to the 
new filename on the server. I can then restore the settings.

Thus it is now possible to do a lot of great things. Like save the current 
users tiddlers to disk in a separate file not only local storage and re import 
them to the master wiki after reviewing them.

I would prefer if there was a mechanisium to do this or a plugin rather than 
this hack. Then it would be easy to generate a locked file, checked out to user 
etc. Which I can now do using the hack .

I expect this to work on firefox with timimi as well.

Regards
Tony

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Re: [twdev] Assistance with an exploration of wrapping content

[TonyM]

Jeremy,

I wanted to see if I could define variables based on current tiddler and have 
them valid within the text, but not outside the tiddler.

I can now see how to do it through a template tiddler and a tip from Mario 
showed me how I can hide the text (like folding a tiddler without interaction) 
so we don't see the text twice.

I also wanted to display an alternative text field if a tiddlername/snapshot 
tiddler existed.

I belive there were other reasons including self contained tiddlers.

If it were possible to have a template field on a tiddler it would help.

All this can be done with conditional view template tricks but these need to 
operate on every tiddler, not a specific tiddler.

Thanks for asking.
Tony

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[twdev] Re: Why plugin library to tw.com but not to any other wiki?

[Mat]

Tony, I hear you.

However I get the distinct feeling I am been ignored to some extent.
>

It is tough because nobody here has the right to expect anything from 
anybody. And, obviously, everyone is doing what they feel is the best thing 
to do.

 

> I suppose it is hard for people to understand my insight and skills, when 
> I can't speak javascript and tiddlywiki internals yet.
>

Same boat, brother. My impression is that the two of us are visionaries. I 
believe we are valuable for open ended projects like this but our crazy 
ideas come at a rate than is possible to implement and we don't speak the 
same language, or even don't quite have the same world view, as the more 
hard core techies. When the vision cannot be communicated or when there are 
simply opposing visions... then we understandably get frustrated. For the 
particular issue (TWederation) I'm prepared to struggle pretty hard because 
the rewards will be tremendous. I already have struggled with this for a 
long time, repeatedly making a fool of myself with stupid questions - some 
actually stupid and some only seemingly stupid because the other part has 
another frame of mind.

 

> I recently discovered some seriously useful hacks in relation to saving 
> out of tiddlywiki, perhaps to build and import the aforementioned 
> libraries, but I will not run off again.
>

Oh, please do - but just start a new thread :-) What happens otherwise is 
that the original question drowns and there's a risk that people who have 
direct answers and are willing to answer simply don't.
 
 

> There are opportunities hidden between what is known, My attempt to engage 
> others, results in a lot of "can't be done messages" but my IT and systems 
> skills are telling me that "we can". It looks like my destiny is to do it 
> myself, its just taking longer than if people could understand my ideas, 
> and jump on the band wagon.
>

Well, let's butt our heads against this one together then.

<:-)

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Re: [twdev] Assistance with an exploration of wrapping content

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Tony

To wrap existing content with wikitext that incorporates opening and closing 
tags, then one would normally use a transclusion. So, to wrap a DIV around the 
content of a tiddler:


{{myTiddler}}


There’s no way to transclude the “” and “” separately from different 
tiddlers.

Can you outline what you’re trying to accomplish?

Best wishes

Jeremy

> On 13 Jul 2019, at 03:37, TonyM  wrote:
> 
> Folks,
> 
> I am experimenting on an idea, that I can share in full, If I can find a 
> method wrapping content. I intend to do this in the view template and 
> elsewhere.
> 
> This is very easy to do unless that which you whish to wrap has opening and 
> closing tags.
> 
> For example, say I choose to target the text field in the viewTemplate
> 
> <$set name=test-value value="Content of test-value">
> 
> Display the body of the tiddler as found in the text field where 
> test-value=<>
> 
> 
> 
> For example modify $:/core/ui/ViewTemplate/body
> 
> <$reveal tag="div" class="tc-tiddler-body" type="nomatch" 
> stateTitle=<> text="hide" retain="yes" animate="yes">
> 
> 
> <$list filter="[all[current]!has[plugin-type]!field:hide-body[yes]]">
> 
> 
> {{Prefix-content}} here
> 
> 
> <$transclude>
> 
> 
> <$transclude tiddler="$:/language/MissingTiddler/Hint"/>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> {{Suffix-content}} here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For reasons that may be obvious to others this does not work.
> 
> Can anyone suggest a way to permit this?
> 
> Regards
> Tony
> 
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[twdev] Re: Why plugin library to tw.com but not to any other wiki?

[TonyM]

Mat,

I am keen on the issue you raised in the Original thread.

I do apologize for "running off". Initially I was just providing you with 
information you may not have, but because I am exploring this and related 
technologies. I suppose I want to put it out there. However I get the 
distinct feeling I am been ignored to some extent. I suppose it is hard for 
people to understand my insight and skills, when I can't speak javascript 
and tiddlywiki internals yet.

If it is any relief you have sent me down a very productive path.

I can already fetch tiddlers from other wikis with import - rather than 
specify a local file, you provide a url to a wiki, url to a json etc... you 
then receive the import prompt and have to select the tiddlers. I have even 
customised the import process in the past for selective imports based on 
search/selection parameters. I am working at simplifying this, maybe even 
making it silent. Once done that is is only a matter of cataloguing what is 
available at what location.

I recently discovered some seriously useful hacks in relation to saving out 
of tiddlywiki, perhaps to build and import the aforementioned libraries, 
but I will not run off again.

The key targets of mine;

   - Multi-user version of single file wikis (Requires a reliable check in 
   an check out for serial editing)
   - My own federation processes *I would love to understand what went 
   before but I have not found any clear descriptions of the state of play.*
   - If I can federate single file wikis then I am on a winner because we 
   can build a large network of federated wikis, more than with server only.

There are opportunities hidden between what is known, My attempt to engage 
others, results in a lot of "can't be done messages" but my IT and systems 
skills are telling me that "we can". It looks like my destiny is to do it 
myself, its just taking longer than if people could understand my ideas, 
and jump on the band wagon.

Regards
Tony


On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 8:00:11 PM UTC+10, Mat wrote:
>
> Tony, thanks for your replies but they certainly "run off". So far I'm 
> really just wondering what is special about tiddlywiki.com that makes the 
> plugin library only enable fetching from there. Is it the server that has 
> some special setting, outside of TW? 
>
> Maybe you have knowledge of this and therefore can, and do, pose the 
> follow up questions?
>
> The background for me asking is because it is many years overdue that we 
> can fetch tiddlers from other wikis (...federation). We seem to have all 
> the pieces in place and yet we don't assemble them even though the gains 
> would be *enormous*. (Do people not see the potential gains? Should I 
> elabortate? Or why is this route not taken?)
>
>
> <:-)
>

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Re: [twdev] Why plugin library to tw.com but not to any other wiki?

[TonyM]

Jeremy,

Can you point us to instructions for creating such a library, and the way 
to add that library to those available in a wiki?

What format are libraries stored in?

Regards
Tony

On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 9:19:32 PM UTC+10, Jeremy Ruston wrote:
>
> Hi Mat
>
> Is tiddlywiki.com set up in some special way that enables this official 
> plugin library to serve tiddlers from it?
>
>
> There is nothing special about tiddlywiki.com, it’s just a static file 
> server. The only wrinkle is that if you’re loading plugins to an HTTPS wiki 
> then the plugin library must be hosted on HTTPS, too.
>
> Assuming it is, why can't this be built into native TW so that people can 
> fetch tiddlers from each others wikis?
>
>
> The plugin library implementation is pretty generic. Additional plugin 
> libraries can be registered and used just like the official library. The 
> mechanism isn’t restricted to plugins, and can be used to host arbitrary 
> tiddlers.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy
>
>
> <:-)
>
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Re: [twdev] Why plugin library to tw.com but not to any other wiki?

[Mat]

Thanks for replies, particularly ones that inform how things can be 
achieved.

Jeremy wrote:
>
> The plugin library implementation is pretty generic. Additional plugin 
> libraries can be registered and used just like the official library. The 
> mechanism isn’t restricted to plugins, and can be used to host arbitrary 
> tiddlers.
>


1) I track down the key to be this call:

<$action-sendmessage $message="tm-load-plugin-library" url={{!!url}} 
infoTitlePrefix="$:/temp/RemoteAssetInfo/"/>

(found in $:/core/ui/ControlPanel/M 

odals/AddPlugins 

 where 
the message is defined in $:/core/modules/browser-messaging.js 

)

In addition to the parameters in that call, it appears that there must also 
be a "connectionTiddler" ... or maybe the context has to be that tiddler.

So why doesn't this work?

<$set name=connectionTiddler 
value="$:/temp/ServerConnection/https://tiddlywiki.com;>
<$tiddler tiddler=<>>
<$button>
<$action-sendmessage
  $message="tm-load-plugin-library"
  url={{!!url}}
  infoTitlePrefix="$:/temp/RemoteAssetInfo/"
/>
{{$:/core/images/chevron-right}}




<>


BTW... I'm almost popping from excitement about this. Could this be *it!?* 
Actually 
accessible, even for *me*, right in front of my face all this time???

<:-)

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Re: [twdev] Why plugin library to tw.com but not to any other wiki?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Mat

> Is tiddlywiki.com set up in some special way that enables this official 
> plugin library to serve tiddlers from it?

There is nothing special about tiddlywiki.com, it’s just a static file server. 
The only wrinkle is that if you’re loading plugins to an HTTPS wiki then the 
plugin library must be hosted on HTTPS, too.

> Assuming it is, why can't this be built into native TW so that people can 
> fetch tiddlers from each others wikis?

The plugin library implementation is pretty generic. Additional plugin 
libraries can be registered and used just like the official library. The 
mechanism isn’t restricted to plugins, and can be used to host arbitrary 
tiddlers.

Best wishes

Jeremy

> 
> <:-)
> 
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[twdev] Re: Why plugin library to tw.com but not to any other wiki?

[PMario]

On Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 12:00:11 PM UTC+2, Mat wrote:
...

> The background for me asking is because it is many years overdue that we 
> can fetch tiddlers from other wikis (...federation). We seem to have all 
> the pieces in place and yet we don't assemble them even though the gains 
> would be *enormous*. (Do people not see the potential gains? Should I 
> elabortate? Or why is this route not taken?)
>

1) Because it's too complicated. ... It has be a "one click" experience. 
2) It's not secure ... I would never load plugins, from sources that I 
don't trust. ... I will trust them, if tiddlywiki.com tells me, that I can 
load from there. 

-m

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[twdev] Re: Hey plugin authors! Where do you serve your plugins?

[Mat]

TonyM wrote:
>
>
> To replace TiddlyWiki tool map would require also curating tiddlywiki 
> editions, learners documentation, hints and tips, macros and other 
> paraphernalia.
>

So does keeping it.

Even if the gentleman running it does it very well, these types of projects 
should not be a one man job but a community effort. It *inevitably* decays 
otherwise because as new items are added it gets more difficult to 
maintain. And the mere progression of time makes things outdate 
automatically. This is a prime example of why we need a federated system.

<:-)

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[twdev] Re: Why plugin library to tw.com but not to any other wiki?

[Mat]

Tony, thanks for your replies but they certainly "run off". So far I'm 
really just wondering what is special about tiddlywiki.com that makes the 
plugin library only enable fetching from there. Is it the server that has 
some special setting, outside of TW? 

Maybe you have knowledge of this and therefore can, and do, pose the follow 
up questions?

The background for me asking is because it is many years overdue that we 
can fetch tiddlers from other wikis (...federation). We seem to have all 
the pieces in place and yet we don't assemble them even though the gains 
would be *enormous*. (Do people not see the potential gains? Should I 
elabortate? Or why is this route not taken?)


<:-)

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[twdev] Re: Assistance with an exploration of wrapping content

[Mat]

I don't understand your question, or at least not what the problem is. It 
does work to insert the prefix etc in the viewtemplate like that. Also the 
little <$set> block you define can be in place of the prefix or suffix 
transclusions. - ?

<:-)

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