[twdev] Re: A Potential Extension to Filter Syntax

[Jed Carty]

Replacing the filter with nested list widgets defeats the purpose of having 
it all in one list at the output so that you can manipulate the result. And 
it also doesn't let you make independent filters because they would all be 
nested and would duplicate all the filters that come afterward.

In a document database where you don't necessarily have structured data SQL 
seems like a step backwards, the point of the database I made was that it 
uses tiddlywiki filters, switching to SQL seems like a step backwards 
considering there are plenty of options if you want to use SQL.

I don't understand the JSON part, we can already do that easily with 
tiddlywiki and it would be a trivial addition to whatever consumes the 
output of the database.

On Wednesday, September 16, 2020 at 2:35:36 AM UTC+2 TonyM wrote:

> Jed,
>
> I think this a worthy goal, bas you say, if not done perfectly it could 
> really confuse things, filters are sophisticated as they stand, and if such 
> a possibility is available they could be made extremely sophisticated.
>
> This would solve a number of issues commonly raised so its a great idea.
>
> Perhaps a plugin or macro first or only?
>
>- Having considered this path before perhaps a macro or plugin that 
>you 
>   - pass an "advanced filter" to that pre-processes additional syntax 
>   like you "->"
>   - Then generates the nested lists version with the filters and 
>   varnames applied
>
> I was thinking something similar such as "(filterrun)outputvaname 
> (filterrun2)outputvaname2  (filterrun3)outputvaname3" and a template 
> parameter
>
> Programatically generates
> <$list filter='filterrun' variable=outputvaname>
>   <$list filter='filterrun2' variable=outputvaname2>
> <$list filter='filterrun3' variable=outputvaname3>
>  {{||TEMPLATE}}
> 
>   
> 
>
> In which template can return contain
> <> <> <>
>
> Or call other macros with the values
> <$macrocall$name-othermacro p1=<> p2=<> p3=<
> >/>
>
> Ideal this would nest as many times as there are "subfilters"
>
> *Subfilters?*
>
> That made me think, what about extending the subfilter operator here?
>
> subfilter:varname[subfilter] or subfilter:varname
>
> *Or perhaps thinking even bigger?*
>
> Be it through extending filters or other means, 
>
>- looking to address all the kinds of queries we may be able to do, in 
>something such as SQL, would be valuable in the long run.
>- Perhaps even a different set of Queries that *return json files* 
>with the results there in?
>- It would be great if we could treat related tiddlers as rows in a 
>table, fields and columns and use actual SQL or similar.
>
>
> Regards
> Tones
>
>
> On Wednesday, 16 September 2020 03:24:57 UTC+10, Jed Carty wrote:
>>
>> The quick version is that I want to propose an extension to the normal 
>> filter syntax to allow defining variables and have multiple filters in one 
>> filter string. filters are separated by commas (,) and variables are 
>> assigned, similar to how the set widget defines them, using ->. One filter 
>> can be assigned to a variable that is then used in later filters in the 
>> filter string.
>>
>> The long version is:
>>
>> As part of my WikiDB project I needed a way to make more complex filters 
>> using only one string than you can using tiddlywiki so I added some 
>> extensions to the filter parser I wrote for the database that may be worth 
>> considering for the core.
>> The database is written in Julia so I don't have any demo for this.
>>
>> The extensions let you define variables and multiple filters in the same 
>> string.
>>
>> The string
>>
>> [tag[a]] -> 1, [tag[b]] -> 2, [tag<1>tag<2>]
>>
>> Is roughly equivalent to
>>
>> <$list filter='[tag[a]]' variable=1>
>>   <$list filter='[tag[b]]' variable=2>
>> <$list filter='[tag<1>tag<2>]'>
>>
>> 
>>   
>> 
>>
>>
>> but in my version the output is all concatenated into one list so it 
>> could be sorted or have the duplicated removed, instead of a bunch of lists 
>> inside the inner widget.
>>
>> You could also have multiple filters at the output
>>
>> [tag[a]] -> 1, [tag[b]] -> 2, [tag<1>tag<2>], [field:foo[bar]]
>>
>> which is the displayed output from this, but in one list:
>>
>> <$list filter='[tag[a]]' variable=1>
>>   <$list filter='[tag[b]]' variable=2>
>>

[twdev] A Potential Extension to Filter Syntax

[Jed Carty]

The quick version is that I want to propose an extension to the normal 
filter syntax to allow defining variables and have multiple filters in one 
filter string. filters are separated by commas (,) and variables are 
assigned, similar to how the set widget defines them, using ->. One filter 
can be assigned to a variable that is then used in later filters in the 
filter string.

The long version is:

As part of my WikiDB project I needed a way to make more complex filters 
using only one string than you can using tiddlywiki so I added some 
extensions to the filter parser I wrote for the database that may be worth 
considering for the core.
The database is written in Julia so I don't have any demo for this.

The extensions let you define variables and multiple filters in the same 
string.

The string

[tag[a]] -> 1, [tag[b]] -> 2, [tag<1>tag<2>]

Is roughly equivalent to

<$list filter='[tag[a]]' variable=1>
  <$list filter='[tag[b]]' variable=2>
<$list filter='[tag<1>tag<2>]'>


  



but in my version the output is all concatenated into one list so it could 
be sorted or have the duplicated removed, instead of a bunch of lists 
inside the inner widget.

You could also have multiple filters at the output

[tag[a]] -> 1, [tag[b]] -> 2, [tag<1>tag<2>], [field:foo[bar]]

which is the displayed output from this, but in one list:

<$list filter='[tag[a]]' variable=1>
  <$list filter='[tag[b]]' variable=2>
<$list filter='[tag<1>tag<2>]'>


  

<$list fliter='[field:foo[bar]]>



Writing this in Julia meant that I was able to start from scratch and make 
everything exactly how I wanted it, I am not sure how difficult it would be 
to implement this for tiddlywiki. We would have to be very careful because 
of how important filters are.

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[twdev] Re: Could gh host TW for multi user?

[Jed Carty]

My vision had nothing to do with a federated messaging platform, that was 
the simplest application we could built that was immediately 
understandable. So we made it and it works, but we only had 4 or 5 people 
who were actually interested in it which isn't enough to sustain it so it 
has been sitting unused for the past few years.
My original use for it was to get content from other wikis on my computer 
so I could do things like searching other wikis and sharing content between 
my own wikis.

That is not at all what I said about http vs https, and that is not how 
either works. The server that provides the information determines the level 
of security, so http vs https, the requesting node makes very little 
difference. Otherwise a browser would not be able to access both http and 
https sites. Everything with TWederation is done in the browser.
The security restriction is that if you have a page hosted on a server 
using https you can not make requests to pages that are served using http. 
If you are on a page being served by http you can make requests to https 
sites with no trouble.

and what you describe in your standards thing is a nice description of what 
twederation is and how the network works. It isn't a description of things 
to come, it is where we are.

For your suggestion about making subsets available for easier consumption, 
you are describing exactly what a plugin library does. Which we can do, but 
it requires more than just a single file on a static file server to 
accomplish.


And to be clear, your second post about getting tiddlers from the same 
server, is exactly the point of twederation and the first application of it 
that I gave when I released it years ago.
So what you describe, about a multi-user wiki with single file wikis, was 
always the point and was achieved years ago.

This is what has been so frustrating for me with this, over half of the 
suggestions I get for features are features that already exist or I get 
requests to extend it that describe exactly what it currently does. And 
that is more aggravation that I want to deal with in my life.

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[twdev] Re: Could gh host TW for multi user?

[Jed Carty]

Unless GitHub had added new features I don't know about no, it couldn't be 
hosted on GitHub. What would GitHub add in this instance? it is just 
another moving part to handle.
The backend could do whatever you want it to do, so yes you could do timed 
fetches.
And yes, that is what I meant when I said that having the back-end server 
would take care of https-vs-http 

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[twdev] Re: Could gh host TW for multi user?

[Jed Carty]

iframe sandboxing makes having only the pulling side need the plugin at 
best a very difficult task and quite likely impossible given browser 
restrictions.

All of the restrictions you mention, aside from some parts of the https 
one, are also present in any solution involving GitHub collaboration.

To make the equivalent thing to what you describe each participant just 
needs to fetch from whoever has the administrator role. the admin would 
have to fetch from each contributor wiki but if that becomes an issue the 
admin wiki gets a node backend like Bob that can handle the workload better 
than a browser. A back-end for the admin would also handle the problems 
with http vs https as long as the admin was on a server with https.

All in all you are giving more restrictions to what would be an acceptable 
in-house tiddlywiki solution than you are to a GitHub-based solution.

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[twdev] Re: Could gh host TW for multi user?

[Jed Carty]

In an attempt to be 'useful' google for some reason made the target of that 
link something other than the link that I pasted into the message.

This is the link that you should use, and I guess yay google?

https://ooktech-tw.gitlab.io/plugins/federationcore/

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[twdev] Re: Could gh host TW for multi user?

[Jed Carty]

People not speaking plainly has been one of the biggest hurdles to making 
things people ask for in tiddlywiki, so yes, please show respect for both 
me and you and our time and speak plainly.

I made a new gitlab page for the federation core, it has all the same 
documentation and the same example in it. I am not sure what else to put.

https://ooktech-tw.gitlab.io/plugins/federationcore/ 


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[twdev] Re: Could gh host TW for multi user?

[Jed Carty]

TWederation works between single file wikis without node or anything else, 
and it has been functional for something like two years.

So tiddlywiki has had federation between wikis without a server for years.

It works but aside from some interest Mat there has been practically no 
interest in building anything with it.

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[twdev] Re: Could gh host TW for multi user?

[Jed Carty]

I think that something like twederation would be a much easier thing and a 
lot of the work is already done.

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[twdev] Re: Could gh host TW for multi user?

[Jed Carty]

Magically taking care of conflicts is going to be the big sticking point.

We may be able to do something like you are describing that lets you see 
the conflicts and handle them manually with a reasonable interface, but 
that is a very significant project by itself.

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[twdev] Re: The right way to oEmbed html code with

[Jed Carty]

I was able to get your example to work using the wrapper from BJ's example 
but with srcdoc in place of src




I didn't need the 'data:text/html;charset=utf-8,' part, when I put that it 
in just displayed as text at the top of the iframe content.

This looks like it could be really neat.

A bit of a tangent, I am glad someone else is doing work with Bob. I put a 
lot of effort into trying to make a system that was easily extensible. I am 
not sure if I got the easy part but it is at least extensible.

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[twdev] Re: Caret position - Take 2

[Jed Carty]

It is probably possible to pass the name of the current tiddler when the 
tiddler is in edit mode and has focus by using css selectors or by walking 
up the dom tree until you reach a div that has the data-tiddler-title 
attribute.

This should also be possible in text areas outside of edit mode as long as 
they are inside a tiddler, I don't know if it would work in places like the 
sidebar.

The third item in your list (the popup staying open) is a problem with when 
the values update. At the moment it is only on keyup. That should probably 
be changed to keydown. Making it also update on focus and blur events would 
probably help.

The last item, being incompatible with the editor toolbar, is because when 
the toolbar is active the editor is put in an iframe. There are limits to 
the information that can be passed in and out of an iframe. We can almost 
certainly work around this but I didn't work on it.

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[twdev] Re: Cursor position?

[Jed Carty]

Mat,

I am getting the same problem you are in the normal text field, but only 
when the editor toolbar is enabled. I vaguely remember something about the 
text editor using something special when the editor toolbar is used so you 
don't lose the cursor position.
What the something special is I don't know, but finding that may point us 
to a solution.

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[twdev] Re: Plugin use complication under node

[Jed Carty]

You have to manually tell the wiki to save the plugin as something 
available to the rest of the wikis. And Mario gives one of many reasons 
that it is a terrible idea to make the behaviour automatic.

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[twdev] Re: Plugin use complication under node

[Jed Carty]

If what you are talking about is being able to install a plugin in a wiki 
by dragging and dropping and then have that plugin available for other node 
wikis to use via tiddlywiki.info, this is a feature that is available in 
Bob. It isn't documented much because I really don't want the headache of 
doing tech support on something as varied as plugins.

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[twdev] Re: Leveraging the draft mechanism for multi-users

[Jed Carty]

If you have a username set it already saves drafts with the username.

The relevant function in wiki.js is

exports.generateDraftTitle = function(title) {
var c = 0,
draftTitle,
username = this.getTiddlerText("$:/status/UserName"),
attribution = username ? " by " + username : "";
do {
draftTitle = "Draft " + (c ? (c + 1) + " " : "") + "of '" + title + "'" + 
attribution;
c++;
} while(this.tiddlerExists(draftTitle));
return draftTitle;
};

so if you have a username set the draft tiddler gets a title in the form 
'draft of  by '

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[twdev] Re: Accessing Tiddlers from JavaScript (Crosspost from main TW group)

[Jed Carty]

To get a tiddler in javascript you use the function 
$tw.wiki.getTiddler('tiddler title'), it returns a json object with the 
from:

{
  fields: {
title: "tiddler title",
other_field: "field contents"
  },
  cache{}
}

so to get the text of a tiddler you could use:

var text = $tw.wiki.getTiddler('tiddler title').fields.text

there have been a few efforts to make full documentation for the tiddlywiki 
internals, but no one has succeeded yet.

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[twdev] Re: [TWX] some syntactical bits and stuff

[Jed Carty]

That syntax would be much much harder for me to use. I am dyslexic and have 
to rely mostly on the shapes of things, not on individual letters. Doing 
this would make reading and writing the code take many times longer for me.

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[twdev] Re: Cursor position?

[Jed Carty]

Mat,

You are much better with css than I am. I had to add on the scroll position 
to the position value but it works. The only problem I have found is that 
when you are typing in the search box and then you scroll the story river 
with the popup active it will scroll with the river, but once you continue 
typing it goes back to the correct position.

There is still the refresh problem where the position is always one step 
behind where it should be, that should be able to be handled with the 
widget somehow, I need to look into it. I will push the changes in a moment.

On Thursday, March 5, 2020 at 9:02:02 PM UTC+1, Mat wrote:
>
> Dear all, for EditorMagic  I am 
> really hoping to show the popup at cursor position. Fellow Snowgoon uses 
> this code in his comptext plugin in TW:
>
>
> https://github.com/snowgoon88/TW5-extendedit/blob/master/plugin/files/cursor-position.js
>
> I don't understand js. How would I use this to position a div? Is it 
> possible? Is there some kind of command?
>
> What I want to do is to control the position of a popup (a div) to be just 
> below the cursor. I assume the most critical bit for this is to identify 
> the x,y values for the cursor.
>
> Thank you.
>
> <:-)
>
>
>

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[twdev] Re: Cursor position?

[Jed Carty]

I tried that and couldn't get it to work. I only spent about 2 hours on it and 
am bad with CSS, so it may be possible 

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[twdev] Re: Cursor position?

[Jed Carty]

Yes, it is fixed for a reason, the plugin creates a div that coves the 
visible area on the screen and the marker is placed on that, otherwise I 
couldn't find a way to allow the cursor to be anywhere on the screen. I 
briefly tried making the widget like the mousey widget where you wrap the 
area in the widget but that was giving me trouble getting the location of 
the pointer, I am not sure what the problem was there. Like I said, I me 
and css aren't friends.

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[twdev] Re: Cursor position?

[Jed Carty]

I made a plugin that uses the method you linked to.

Me and css are not friends, and this method feels very hacky, so there are 
some bugs to work out. But the idea is there and it is usable at least.

To test it out go to the examples tab, check the enable cursor display 
checkbox and start typing in the text box.

https://ooktech-tw.gitlab.io/plugins/caretposition/

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[twdev] Re: How to generate JSON for a plugin for a Library

[Jed Carty]

I am having a really hard time reading anything on your site (I am 
dyslexic, the colors and lines are more than I can do), so I am not sure 
what state your work is in, but this is a thing I was playing around with 
when trying to see if I could make a simpler way to make plugin libraries, 
it is one tiddler that packages plugins in the browser and one that puts it 
all into a format for the plugin library files, I never got around to 
seeing if I could make an exporter taht would export the plugin library 
files in bulk, there is probably some way to do it.

\define plugintext()
{
"tiddlers": {<$list 
filter='[subfilter{$:/state/MakePlugin!!filter}]+[bl[]]'>
"<$view field=title format=jsencoded/>": <$text text=<>/>,

<$list filter='[subfilter{$:/state/MakePlugin!!filter}]+[last[]]'>
"<$view field=title format=jsencoded/>": <$text text=<>/>
}
}
\end

Name: <$edit-text tiddler='$:/state/MakePlugin' field='name' 
class='tc-edit-texteditor'/>
Filter: <$edit-text tiddler='$:/state/MakePlugin' field='filter' 
class='tc-edit-texteditor'/>
Description: <$edit-text tiddler='$:/state/MakePlugin' field='description' 
class='tc-edit-texteditor'/>
List: <$edit-text tiddler='$:/state/MakePlugin' field='list' 
class='tc-edit-texteditor'/>
Version: <$edit-text tiddler='$:/state/MakePlugin' field='version' 
class='tc-edit-texteditor'/>

<$button>
Make Plugin
<$wikify name=pluginText text="<>">
<$action-setfield $tiddler={{$:/state/MakePlugin!!name}} 
text=<> type='application/json' 
description={{$:/state/MakePlugin!!description}} core-version=">=5.0.0" 
dependents="" list={{$:/state/MakePlugin!!list}} plugin-type="plugin" 
version={{$:/state/MakePlugin!!version}}/>



and then to get the plugins formatted for the files used by a plugin 
library:

title: Make Plugin Library

\define oneTiddler()
  <$list
filter='[fields[]] -text +[bl[]]'
  >

"<$view field='title' jsencoded/>": "<$view 
tiddler=<> field=<> format=jsencoded/>",
  
  <$list
filter='[fields[]] -text +[bl[]]'
  >

"<$view field='title' jsencoded/>": "<$view 
tiddler=<> field=<> format=jsencoded/>"
  
\end

\define jsonListing()
[
<$list
  filter='[subfilter{$:/state/PluginLibrary!!filter}] +[bl[]]'
  variable=theTiddler
>
  {
  <>
  
  },
  

<$list
  filter='[subfilter{$:/state/PluginLibrary!!filter}] +[last[]]'
  variable=theTiddler
>
  {
  <>
  
  }
  

]
\end

This packages the plugins returned by this filter into the format needed by 
a plugin library.

The file structure needs to be:

*Library Folder
** recipes
*** library
 tiddlers
* //individual tiddler json files//
 tiddlers.json
** index.html

filter: <$edit-text tiddler='$:/state/PluginLibrary' field=filter/>


!! tiddlers.json

''filename:'' tiddlers.json

''contents:''

<>

!! Tiddler JSON files:

<$list filter={{$:/state/PluginLibrary!!filter}}>

---
''filename:'' <$view field='title' format='urlencoded'/>.json

''contents:''

<>



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[twdev] Re: How to generate JSON for a plugin for a Library

[Jed Carty]

I think what you need is something like this:

{
<$list filter=<>>
"<$view field=title format= jsencoded/>": <$text text=<>/>,

}

the $view widget with format=jsencoded is the part that actually answers 
your question, I think.

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[twdev] Re: How to generate JSON for a plugin for a Library

[Jed Carty]

I think that the jsontiddler macro is what you want, or at least a good 
place to start. https://tiddlywiki.com/#jsontiddlers%20Macro

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[twdev] Re: Cursor position?

[Jed Carty]

I updated the mousey wiki to include the missing tiddler.

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[twdev] Re: Cursor position?

[Jed Carty]

The demo was just doing something other than what I expected. The two 
widgets shoal be able to work together, you would have to use a helper 
macro to put the coordinates into the (x,y,h,w) form. One potential problem 
is that the mouse widget gives the location relative to either the full 
wiki or to the mouse widget container, the popups need to be placed so that 
they can work with that.

I will look at the plugin and see why it is missing a tiddler.

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[twdev] Re: Cursor position?

[Jed Carty]

You should be able to put it into the correct form for the popup widget, 
the demo on the prerelease site isn't doing anything for me so I am not 
certain. And if we need to I can make a pull request to add separate x, y, 
h and w inputs.

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[twdev] Re: Cursor position?

[Jed Carty]

I made some updates. There are two different things, one tracks global 
mouse position and has the drawbacks that you saw, the other tracks mouse 
position inside the $mouse widget but works in separate windows and will 
move with the tiddler as expected.

The reason for the global one is that it lets you get the mouse position in 
places where wrapping everything in a mouse widget would be awkward. I am 
not sure if that is really necessary but I didn't see any reason to remove 
it so I didn't.

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[twdev] Re: Cursor position?

[Jed Carty]

Mario,

I hadn't even thought to test that. I think you are correct about the 
position tracking but I am not sure how to do that, I need to do some more 
research. I don't think that the multi-touch api solves this problem, but I 
think that implementing tracking for it would be worth doing.

At the moment the mouse position is tracked by a global onmousemove handler 
that saves the mouse position as $tw.mouseX and $tw.mouseY.

I may have to add a mouse move handler to the $mouse widget itself, that 
would limit the places where the mouse position is tracked but it would 
allow any pop-ups to move with the tiddlers. As it is they stay in the same 
position relative to the document even when the tiddler river moves.

On Thursday, March 5, 2020 at 9:02:02 PM UTC+1, Mat wrote:
>
> Dear all, for EditorMagic  I am 
> really hoping to show the popup at cursor position. Fellow Snowgoon uses 
> this code in his comptext plugin in TW:
>
>
> https://github.com/snowgoon88/TW5-extendedit/blob/master/plugin/files/cursor-position.js
>
> I don't understand js. How would I use this to position a div? Is it 
> possible? Is there some kind of command?
>
> What I want to do is to control the position of a popup (a div) to be just 
> below the cursor. I assume the most critical bit for this is to identify 
> the x,y values for the cursor.
>
> Thank you.
>
> <:-)
>
>
>

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[twdev] Re: Cursor position?

[Jed Carty]

Sorry mat, I made this and then completely forgot to share it.

I put it up on gitlab with a demo wiki, it should be available here 
https://ooktech-tw.gitlab.io/plugins/mousey
 


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[twdev] Re: Cursor position?

[Jed Carty]

Getting the cursor position shouldn't be too bad to implement, and we should be 
able to do it without adding bloat from external libraries. I will see if I can 
get something together once I get home.

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[twdev] Re: How to use WebServer without Node.js?

[Jed Carty]

BobEXE doesn't require node, so it may be a possibility. I think I am the only 
one who ever managed to run the secure server version, but if you have Apache 
or nginx to handle the access control that shouldn't be a problem.

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[twdev] Re: dev env for plugin: reload browser on code changes ?

[Jed Carty]

With Bob you can do something a bit simpler, but I don't know of anything 
that will automatically watch plugins.

In Bob you can unload a wiki and then when you reload it the plugins should 
be updated, so it is still multiple steps.

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[twdev] Re: Worth considering: Ease of installing plugins VS. pressure to include in core

[Jed Carty]

I think we could probably make an interface similar to what Bob has where you 
can select plugins from a list of checkboxes that you can check or uncheck to 
set which plugins you have. In the single file wiki it would then open the 
correct libraries and get your plugins. You would still need to reload for 
JavaScript plugins but I don't know if a way around that is a good idea.

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[twdev] Re: Technical Question - Export binaries

[Jed Carty]

It is working for me, I tried to find ways to break it and I haven't been 
able to find anything other than it doesn't try and download tiddlers that 
use _canonical_uri fields (you can just download them directly from their 
location, I may update it to download them in the future).

It shouldn't be limited to working with Bob or node, the behaviour is 
completely in the browser.

There may be some browser setting that prevents it, but I am not aware of 
anything that would do that.

The types it downloads are limited to 'image/gif', 'image/x-icon', 
'image/jpeg', 'image/jpeg', 'image/png', 'image/svg+xml', 
'application/pdf', 'application/zip', 'application/font-woff', 
'application/x-font-ttf', 'audio/ogg', 'video/mp4', 'audio/mp3', 
'audio/mp4' because those are the ones I thought of at the time. It won't 
work if the tiddler doesn't have one of those types. Eventually I will 
probably add a setting that lets you change the list of mime types it will 
download.

It also will not try and download images that are included using 
_canonical_uri, the plugin will take tiddlers that are base64 encoded and 
try to download the non-base64 encoded version.

On Wednesday, September 4, 2019 at 1:58:22 AM UTC+2, TonyM wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> I believe there has being discussion of this in the past but just want to 
> ask if the ability to save/download binary tiddlers as files?
>
> Such as images, windows.lnk files, small exe's etc... 
> Assuming when imported no information is lost, we should be able to export 
> them as viable files?
> Understand there are security implications for Internet hosted binaries 
> but on internal, private ot local wikis this would be very helpful.
>
> Thanks for any info you may have
> Tony
>

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[twdev] Re: Technical Question - Export binaries

[Jed Carty]

You can get it from the plugin library using the TWederBob plugin, or just drag 
and drop it from https://www.ooktech.xyz:8443/Public

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[twdev] Technical Question - Export binaries

[Jed Carty]

I made a plugin that lets you do this.

https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-DownloadBinary

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[twdev] Re: [TW5] Data Visualisation using SVG or Chartist.js

[Jed Carty]

I made some data visualisation plugins.

https://ooktech.com/TiddlyWiki/BarChart/
https://ooktech.com/TiddlyWiki/ScatterPlot/
https://ooktech.com/jed/ExampleWikis/SnapSVG/

I should have some examples using chart.js and p5.js around somewhere but I 
have no idea where they are.

I have been working with d3.js in my day job so there will probably be some 
more d3 plugins at some point in the future.

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[twdev] Re: Preparing TW for the next step

[Jed Carty]

I don't understand the comments about Jeremy having a high degree of 
ownership. I don't know of any proposed editions that were actually 
submitted that have been rejected. When I made the resume edition it was 
accepted almost immediately. The only times he has hesitated or said no is 
when something would prevent backwards compatibility in the core or it 
would be better as an external plugin to maintain the flexibility of 
tiddlywiki. I think that he has supported the idea of having more than just 
the empty edition available for download on tiddlywiki.com, but no one has 
created and submitted a editions for consideration yet.

>From what I can tell most of the perception comes from people thinking that 
there is some barrier and not trying and then no one sees anyone succeeding 
because very few people try and then they assume that they are right about 
there being some barrier.

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[twdev] Re: Sidebar stopped working!! why something is going wrong

[Jed Carty]

It looks like you saved using the browser save webpage function instead of 
the built in save function. Using the browser save function will break your 
wiki, you need to click on the checkbox to save it.

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[twdev] Is there a way to modify the sandbox used to load modules without modifying boot.js?

[Jed Carty]

The TOML library that I would like to use needs the Date object, it looks 
like it isn't available in the default sandbox used to evaluate modules. A 
quick look at the code makes it look like it is possible to define a custom 
sandbox environment but I don't see how to actually do that.

I think that there may be security concerns for allowing the Date object to 
be accessible in the sandboxed modules so I would rather find a way to make 
a custom sandbox than to make a pull request to change the available 
modules.

I feel like I am missing something very simple here but I have no idea what.

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[twdev] Re: Set HTML Free in TiddlyWiki

[Jed Carty]

Tony,

TiddlyWiki being able to display things in multiple places creates problems 
for forms like you are suggesting. HTML forms are designed with a very 
limited use in mind. You have a form and you have a submit button and when 
you click on the submit button the form data is sent to a server and it is 
the responsibly of the server to figure out what to do with it. Adding 
javascript on top of this some things can be done in a browser, but that 
leads to other issues. TiddlyWiki lets you display the same content in 
multiple places, this breaks the assumptions used by html when using id 
attributes. An id is supposed to be unique in a page so that you can use 
getElementById to pick a unique element. If you have that in a tiddler that 
is displayed in two places than the behaviour is not well defined.

And anything that uses the html dom for storing the state the way that the 
forms you mention do is going to be a problem if the tiddler gets 
refreshed. For example if you have the form in a tiddler displayed using 
the tabs macro and switch tabs after entering information that information 
may be lost. Or if you have the form in a tiddler that is displayed 
multiple times there is nothing to prevent you from entering different data 
in it in each place. In a situation like that with html the error is in the 
html and there isn't an expected outcome for when you try and use the form 
because it is given bad data.

And as a personal opinion, I think that the jquery approach of storing 
everything in the dom is a bad idea. It leads to very difficult to maintain 
systems where changing one part has unintended and unpredictable side 
effects because there is nowhere to look to determine what actually affects 
each component. TiddlyWiki already supports html, there are a few cases 
like forms where the way that they are used doesn't work in the tiddlywiki 
context but we have equivalent structures that do work.

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[twdev] Re: Retrieving a Binary File imported as a tiddler in tw5?

[Jed Carty]

When I do it in firefox on osx or linux it says something like 'would you 
like to download this html document?' when downloading but it doesn't add 
the .html to the end of it. I think that there is probably some setting 
either in windows or firefox that automatically appends the extension. The 
last time I worked in windows (it was windows 7) there was some option that 
I had to find before it let me set the file extensions on any files. Maybe 
that is the problem.

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[twdev] Re: Retrieving a Binary File imported as a tiddler in tw5?

[Jed Carty]

Try this.

https://www.ooktech.xyz:8443/Public#Custom%20Exporter%20Demo

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[twdev] Re: Retrieving a Binary File imported as a tiddler in tw5?

[Jed Carty]

You can already export tiddlers as plain text (rendered or not) to get 
things like .cpp files or script files out of them using the exporter. For 
a contract I did a while ago I made a wiki that would automatically 
generate code and there were buttons to export the generated files so 
people could make changes without having to know how to code. I have a 
similar wiki now that documents and generates some components for robbie. 
Once I finish testing I am probably going to make it public.

The widget can export any type of file that is registered by the core to be 
encoded in base64 when imported into a tiddlywiki. The list of files 
registered this way is ['image/gif', 'image/x-icon', 'image/jpeg', 
'image/jpeg', 'image/png', 'image/svg+xml', 'application/pdf', 
'application/zip', 'application/font-woff', 'application/x-font-ttf', 
'audio/ogg', 'video/mp4', 'audio/mp3', 'audio/mp4'].

I have only tested exporting images so far.

You could make a button that exports a tiddler using the existing export 
mechanism. Or you could have it export a list of them, but you would be 
prompted to download them one at a time. You could probably make something 
using the jszip plugin to download a zip file that contains everything to 
get a single download. But that isn't really part of the downloadBinary 
widget.

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[twdev] Re: Retrieving a Binary File imported as a tiddler in tw5?

[Jed Carty]

I made an action-widget to do this. The code is on GitHub 
here: https://github.com/OokTech/TW5-DownloadBinary and a quick demo is 
here: https://www.ooktech.xyz:8443/Public#Download%20Binary%20Demo

If this looks like a good way to solve the problem I can make a pull 
request.

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[twdev] Re: Retrieving a Binary File imported as a tiddler in tw5?

[Jed Carty]

This fits with some work I have been doing so I will just throw together a 
quick plugin to test it out. I think that the best way to implement it 
would be to create an action widget and then add a 'download as file' 
option to tiddlers that have base64 encoded contents. Would that work for 
your purposes?

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[twdev] Re: TiddlyWiki for Mobile

[Jed Carty]

I of course can't talk for the full dev team so this is just my reasoning. 
But my answer is both it is technically difficult and not a priority.

First, contemporary Phones are designed to be limited. Touch screens are, 
for people who can use them (I can barely use touch screens so I am a bit 
biased), very good at a very limited set of input functions and very bad at 
everything else. Phone designers seem to have taken this and decided it is 
a good thing and run with it (I could probably write a very long post about 
just that, but that is off topic). Editing text is one of the things that 
they are bad at. I am used to using computers that I have customised a lot 
to work well for me, this makes using a phone to edit something like a wiki 
a very unattractive prospect. So I haven't bothered to try and make 
anything to work with a phone.

Second, phones seem like they are designed to be difficult to use for local 
productive work. Almost all of the development tools for android and iOS 
are designed around delivering content to a phone from a remote location 
and having the phone be a more or less passive recipient of the delivered 
content. They are easy to make things for where the phone is essentially a 
thin terminal for a remote server, but local content outside of the 
built-in media libraries is difficult to use. Some of this comes from the 
security model of phones which treats the person using the phone as an 
adversary (locked-down app stores aren't reasonable if you own the 
hardware. Sorry, some ranting is going to slip in). One way that this comes 
up is in access to the local file system and how aggressively sand-boxed 
applications are.

Third, developing for phones uses different languages and for the most part 
what you can use is pretty restricted. Unlike osx, windows and linux where 
I can write something in node (or python, or c) and then generate 
executables that will mostly work the same on all three operating systems 
without changes to the code, anything for iOS or android needs to be 
written only for iOS or android. There are some exceptions but in general 
that is true. If someone can find a way to compile an apk for android the 
way that I can compile for desktop operating systems that would let us make 
a version for android, but otherwise it would be a pretty large project and 
there are no guarantees that it would even work after the next update with 
how permissions on phones can change. For now the best option that I have, 
and the only one that has any reasonable expectation of working in a year 
or 5 years is to have a server that the phone connects to and use a browser 
like on a desktop. It isn't a good solution but I don't have any others.

Those are my thoughts and reasoning anyway. Others probably feel 
differently.

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[twdev] Re: [TW5] Is there a way to import TW5 engine through

[Jed Carty]

Tony,

A lot of what you describe is either already working or planned for my 
public facing Bob server, but in a different way than what you describe. 
The first two points are largely covered by having a secure login and 
fine-grained access control to wikis and tiddlers. So far I have fine 
grained control to wikis, I don't have the tiddler level set up yet but it 
will not be too hard to add it in.

As far as the fourth item is concerned (preventing downloads of the wiki 
file), it is very hard to serve content that you don't want copied in a 
tiddlywiki. The technologies that allow that sort of thing are, in my 
opinion, very bad ideas and are a big part of how botnets are formed. It is 
doable, but browser drm leads to bad things.

Having the base tiddlywiki cached separately is a good idea I think and I 
would like to find a good way to do that.

None of these pieces would necessarily break the single file wikis. They 
seem to mostly be based around the idea of selectively sending tiddlers to 
a wiki similarly to what Bob currently does but with more control over 
individual tiddlers.


And you make it sound like I should see about getting you a login on my Bob 
server online. There are many little details that I am working on fixing to 
make it polished but I have been using it for my work. I want to make it 
more polished before I start advertising it but it is available now.

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[twdev] Re: [TW5] Is there a way to import TW5 engine through

[Jed Carty]

I would like this too. I have been trying to find ways to make Bob load 
wikis faster and I already have it set up so plugins that are specific to 
the node side aren't pushed to the browser, being able to cache 
tiddlywiki.js in the browser would greatly reduce the load times for when 
Bob is served on a vps, currently they are much longer than I would like.

Jeremy,

I will look at the branch you have already made and see if there is 
anything I can help with.

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[twdev] Re: Request for help with new filter operator and new tutorial

[Jed Carty]

I hadn't realised it could be done that way. That makes including external 
libraries a lot easier than I thought. I am a bit embarrassed that I didn't 
notice you could do that.

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[twdev] Re: Request for help with new filter operator and new tutorial

[Jed Carty]

I have looked at this a little and I may be able to help. I am not sure how 
much time I will have in the immediate future because there are some 
potentially major bugs in Bob that I need to take care of in addition to my 
day job but this looks like a good project.

I think that using the way that the sjcl encryption library is included is 
a good start. The minified sjcl.js file as part of the core plugin along 
with a .meta file for it. I think that copying that is the way to go. I am 
not exactly sure how the library is loaded, that may be enough.

The library is used in the crypto function in boot.js here 
https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/blob/929b0c98330ad25aa4a32cd201274a6e89cd8902/boot/boot.js#L601

Looking at that it has different methods of loading depending on platform, 
on node it uses require like you suggested, but that isn't available in the 
browser but the library is available as window.sjcl. I assume this is done 
when the sjcl.js library is loaded, either by tiddlywiki or the library 
itself, but I am not certain.

I hope that is enough to get started because I have to run for a bit.

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[twdev] Re: TWX Front end back end

[Jed Carty]

Before I start asking questions I want to say that all of these are good 
ideas and I want to implement them.

When you say that every tiddlywiki could act as the backend of another wiki 
I am not sure what you mean. The node process that serves a wiki can server 
other wikis as well, Bob already does this with one node process and 
TiddlyServer does it by spawning new processes for each wiki.

This whole idea sounds a lot like federated tiddler servers, which can (and 
in terms of coding complexity and maintainability probably should) be 
created separately from tiddlywiki (I think that the back-end of noteself 
is an example of something similar to this already).

I think that this would actually be a separate project from the core of 
tiddlywiki. The public-facing wikis I have up using Bob right now have a 
custom expressjs backend that does some of what you are describing, and I 
am planning on adding the federation aspects (storing tiddlers for other 
wikis, aggregation, etc.) to it.

Tiddlywiki works well as a single html file and adding all of the overhead 
needed to do what you are describing would make that a lot harder. So while 
these things should be available for tiddlywiki I don't think that they 
should be part of the core of tiddlywiki.

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[twdev] Re: Improving TiddlyWiki 5 web server functionality

[Jed Carty]

I fully support named parameters, I am always terrible with positional 
inputs. I keep trying to find a way that I could use some of what I made 
for the Bob plugin to help here and I am not sure that anything I did for 
the server I use with Bob is usable here.

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[twdev] Re: Embedding Java Script

[Jed Carty]

>From my experiments with similar things before, I think in order to use 
that unmodified you will have to put everything in your first code block 
inside a tiddler tagged with $:/tags/RawMarkup and then it will only show 
up under the story river.

To make it more useful in a tiddlywiki context I think it would need a 
widget that contains the yam.connect.embedFeed part so that it would get 
loaded each time the widget is rendered. Otherwise the feed would only 
appear if the tiddler that contains it is open when the wiki is loaded and 
never closed.

This is the same problem that almost all of the commenting systems that I 
played with have and unless yammer has a built-in refresh mechanism you can 
call it isn't a simple fix.

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[twdev] Re: Why "sharing of tiddlers" is a linchpin for success

[Jed Carty]

Tony,

Yammer isn't sending me a confirmation email so I can't join there.

The way that you describe subscribing to something is used by twederation. 
Subscribing is done completely on the subscribing wiki and doesn't have any 
effect on the wiki that is being subscribed to. And each wiki has a tiddler 
that describes the wiki information and that is all any other wiki needs to 
copy to subscribe to it.

All of this can be much faster now that I have am working on node version, 
but the general idea is the same as it was before. 

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[twdev] Re: Why "sharing of tiddlers" is a linchpin for success

[Jed Carty]

I tried to start a listing of plugins that I was hoping to extend to other 
tiddlywiki resources that is similar to what you are describing but then I 
got distracted and I don't think anyone else really started using it. What 
I made is here: http://inmysocks.tiddlyspot.com/#Plugin%20twCard

Mat,

The idea is to set it up so that you can use the same filters as in our 
implementation of twederation and get just the tiddlers back instead of 
loading the full wiki. So it would take much less time and would let you 
get tiddlers from multiple wikis if they are on the server and it would be 
much faster than the non-server assisted way. You could set up something 
that serves wikis like this without ssl but I wouldn't trust a system for 
editing the wikis online without https.

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[twdev] Re: Why "sharing of tiddlers" is a linchpin for success

[Jed Carty]

I am working on the external server component needed by Bob to make it into 
the optional nodejs server component we had discussed as an extension of 
twederation. I have a publicly accessible website set up serving Bob right 
now and it works well enough to use, but I don't have the SSL certificates 
set up correctly yet (my brother is in charge of our domains and he hasn't 
had time to get me the proper ssl certificate so it is self-signed for now).

I am not sure if this counts as a basic implementation because it requires 
an external server and setting up SSL, but with the server in place we 
should be able to make plugins that let single file wikis connect to this 
server (or other servers running similar code) as a method of sharing 
tiddlers natively.

I have been in the US to get married so I have been working slowly. Also 
some other work is picking up so I don't know how quickly I will be working 
on any of this.

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[twdev] Re: Can core support multiple wikis

[Jed Carty]

With the multi-user wiki i am making it is simple to have the server give 
each connected browser a different wiki by controlling which tiddlers are 
served to it.

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[twdev] Re: [TWX] tiddler = filter

[Jed Carty]

I like this idea and I agree with Jeremy, while this would represent a very 
different way of interacting with tiddlers in a wiki it doesn't require any 
changes so something very like this this could be made using tiddlywiki5. 
The implementation wouldn't be very different than how the calendar I made 
for the external brain experiment I did 
(http://ooktech.com/jed/externalbrain/#Calendar%20Archives), when you click 
on a date it creates a tiddler based on that date.

We could implement almost everything you are talking about my changing the 
statement from 'a tiddler is a filter' to 'a tiddler has a filter', each 
tiddler then could have a filter field, if the filter field is empty the 
value defaults to the filter that just contains that tiddlers title. Then 
we just need a view template that, instead of displaying the text field of 
the current tiddler, displays the text fields of all of the tiddlers 
returned by the current tiddlers filter, and if one of those tiddlers has a 
filter replace the text field with the text fields of all the tiddlers in 
that tiddlers filter, and so on.

There would be more to it of course, but the basic idea of 'each tiddler 
can be treated as a filter' can probably be implemented using current 
wikitext.

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[twdev] FunctionTiddlers

[Jed Carty]

I need to check this group more regularly because this is what I have been 
having trouble imagining while making the code wiki.

I think that the interface part won't be possible for most of the functions but 
other than that I think you have the correct idea 

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[twdev] Re: [TW5] Webworkers and xmlhttprequests

[Jed Carty]

>From what I can see you can use in-line js to create a worker from a blob 
if you are not on an https domain, but if you are on an https domain than 
you can only load workers from an https domain and I have seen online that 
making a blob into a data uri is considered to be from a non-https domain. 
If that is the case than we wouldn't be able to host a wiki on an https 
domain and define the workers inside the wiki itself. I don't have an easy 
way to test that at the moment, but if that is true than workers may turn 
out to cause trouble even for simple threaded behaviour.


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[twdev] Re: [TW5] Webworkers and xmlhttprequests

[Jed Carty]

That is very annoying. I hadn't figured out where the bad URI errors I got 
while testing, I thought I was copying urls incorrectly or something. With 
that restriction this becomes much less useful in general. I think they can 
still be used for some multi-threading but I don't know how generally 
useful that is going to be since we can already make daemon processes as 
startup modules.
I will play with it some more and see if I come up with any good uses.

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[twdev] Re: [TW5] Webworkers and xmlhttprequests

[Jed Carty]

I looked at this a bit more and I think that it may have a broader 
application than just inter-wiki communication. I am going to have the 
widget that creates workers and then worker definitions in other places, 
then you can use the same widget to make different types of workers and get 
something like threaded behaviour in tiddlywiki. The first example I can 
think of where this would be useful would be a simple timer. You can make a 
timer now, but this would be simpler and prevent any negative effects on UX 
from the timer hogging the main thread. It could also be used for calendar 
things to spawn notices when certain conditions are met.

I am going to look at it some more, but I think that we could put 
extensible support into the core for workers and allow new worker types to 
be defined in other plugins or tiddlers. This could make triggering things 
on change events easier too but I am not sure how much we want to go with 
that behaviour.

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[twdev] [TW5] Webworkers and xmlhttprequests

[Jed Carty]

While working on twederation I have been making widgets that will let you 
incorporate google sheets into tiddlywiki using xmlhttprequests to store 
and retrieve data.
What the widget does now is spawn a web worker in the background to make 
the request and parameters are passed to the worker via postMessage, then 
when the worker gets a response it sends the retrieved data to a listener 
via postMessage and the widget does whatever manipulation you want with it. 
Currently in my demo it just prints the output in the console, but it is a 
json object in the code so it is available.

For now a new worker is spawned whenever a request is made and after 
sending the response back to the calling widget the worker terminates 
itself.
I am not sure if this is the best way to do this. Would it be better to 
create one persistent worker that all widgets that send messages share or 
is it better for each widget to create a new self-terminating worker each 
time they make an xmlhttprequest?

The current demo is here 
http://ooktech.com/jed/ExampleWikis/TWederation/WebWorkerTest/, it doesn't 
do much past a proof of concept yet. Currently the interesting code is in 
the tiddlers 
$:/plugins/inmysocks/TWederation/action-requestdata.js and 
$:/plugins/inmysocks/TWederation/action-submitform.js

I believe this is how the plugin library interactions should be handled 
since it works without stopping the main wiki waiting on a response, but we 
need to add some notification that the working being active. A notification 
shouldn't be hard to make, that is more of a note for future jed.

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[twdev] Re: listing name of fields along with content

[Jed Carty]

 Does this do what you want?

<$list filter='[is[current]fields[]]' variable=FieldName>

<>: <$view field=<>/>



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[twdev] Revsiting an old Idea. - Tiddly spreadsheet + SVG rendeding for generic character sheet.

[Jed Carty]

It is very doable. It is one of the 126573 projects that I keep wanting to do. 
My MathyThing plug-in (http://inmysocks.tiddlyspot.com/#MathyThing%20Plugin)  
was made with this sort of thing in mind. I think I have the start of one 
sitting around somewhere, I will put up a link if I find it. 

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[twdev] Re: TW5

[Jed Carty]

I have been considering looking for work doing tiddlywiki things. I am in 
Paris, so not quite in the London area but at least only one time zone off. 
I am an engineer so a more science-based tiddlywiki scholars edition is 
something I have thought about a bit. My contact info is here 
 
if you want to talk.

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[twdev] [TW5] TWederation and SJCL.js for public key crytpography

[Jed Carty]

As part of twederation I would like to be able to have some sort of access 
control to wiki contents. I am still thinking about how to do this and I 
hope that someone here has some experience with these things and can at 
least tell me if this would be possible. Any thoughts or suggestions on 
this or alternate implementations are always welcome.

My current not very developed idea:
In a trustless environment without persistent storage for a reader (ie a 
publicly hosted tiddlywiki being read by someone without write access) some 
sort of cryptography is the only real way to selectively make parts of the 
wiki accessible. Tiddlywiki already has sjcl.js as part of the core and my 
brief skimming of the documentation suggests that we can use elliptic curve 
cryptography. For the twederation experiments me and Mat have been working 
on part of connecting two wikis involves exchanging twCards which could 
easily contain a public key for private communication. So if I wanted to 
send a message to Mat that no one else could read I could just use his 
public key. 

The biggest problem I see is local private key storage. This wouldn't be a 
huge problem if you are using a single computer all the time and have a 
password manager, but if you are using multiple devices there will probably 
be some usability concerns. I have read a tiny bit about processes for 
taking a password and generating a private key from it, but I am not sure 
how much they would apply in this context since everything about how the 
password is converted to the private key would be on the wiki and therefore 
assumed to be publicly viewable. I don't know specifics of how this works 
so at the moment it is just brainstorming. 

I know that from a strict security perspective this would be difficult to 
make secure, but for the current purposes of twederation I don't think we 
need an actually secure setup, just enough that it would take real effort 
to break the encryption. Hopefully we would be able to make it secure, but 
that isn't a high priority for me at the moment.

My idea for how to encrypt a single message for multiple recipients would 
be to define groups of people and send everyone in the group the same key 
(in this case probably a symmetric key for simplicity) in a message 
encrypted using their public key. Then each person could decrypt the 
message and have access to this key which you could reuse to send to the 
entire group and have everyone able to decrypt the message without 
requiring individual things saved on your wiki for each message.

Someone would also have to create a widget that would decrypt the and 
display the messages in a way that doesn't affect the tiddler store so that 
the decrypted versions wouldn't be saved accidentally after viewing. I 
don't think that this would be too difficult, but depending on how much 
processing is required it may slow down the wiki.


NB: Almost all of the complaints I have seen about js-based encryption are 
based on client-server models and communicating keys. I am currently 
considering only the html wiki in the browser which avoids that problem 
completely. This doesn't mean that there aren't concerns but the generic 
'javascript cryptography is bad' arguments may not be relevant to this 
situation.

It doesn't look like the ecc part of sjcl.js is included in the tiddlywiki 
core but since it is so small when minified it could probably be included 
as a plugin without problems.

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[twdev] Re: Plugin mechanism steps + relevance for twCards List?

[Jed Carty]

The information is obtained using postMessage in the same way as in 
twederation. The difference is that the plugin library pulls static content 
(in the sense that you can only get predefined things from the remote site 
instead of being able to request a custom set of tiddlers), this makes it 
less flexible but also a bit simpler and probably a bit safer.

a) The answer here is mainly 'because that how Jeremy made it'. You could 
make it so that opening the modal also opened the unopened libraries but 
then there wouldn't be an explicit user action for opening up a new 
connection which goes against some of the design principles tiddlywiki has 
adopted.
b) It is getting information from within the iframe using the same process 
as twederation. Well, that is I copied how this works to make twederation 
work. The twederation connections just pass more information and have some 
more sophisticated communication but it is the same thing happening.
c) Yes, that is one of the problems that has kept me from updating the 
plugin libarary I made right after Jeremy introduced it. There isn't any 
way to properly close an iframe and clean things up afterward in the core. 
I have a sloppy version working for twederation but nothing is implemented 
for the plugin library yet. It hasn't been a problem because the only 
libraries are the core one, the one I made and haven't been using and now 
Tobias has his library. Hopefully since he is using it too there will be 
some updates to the core to make it all work better.

We may have to do a hangout devoted to just going over the inner workings 
of the wiki communication we are using

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[twdev] Re: [TW5] How get target tiddler by title in widget

[Jed Carty]

I am not certain what you need. If you need access to the tiddler in the 
sense of the information the wiki uses than you can use this:

When you call the widget use this:

<$widget tiddler='Some Tiddler Name'/>

And have this in the code:

var tiddler = this.getAttribute("tiddler", 
this.getVariable('currentTiddler'));

then you can have this to get the text of the tiddler:

var tiddlerObject = this.getTiddler(tiddler);
if (tiddlerObject) {
tiddlerText = tiddlerObject.fields.text;

//Whatever your code is here

}

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[twdev] Re: Getting started contributing

[Jed Carty]

The plugin is listed on my site, if things all work it should be listed on 
the community search within a day or so.

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[twdev] Re: Getting started contributing

[Jed Carty]

That is a very clean interface and it seems to work very smoothly.

I have one suggestion for remaining consistent with how everything else in 
tiddlywiki works. While putting the entire state for checked and unchecked 
into a single tiddler is a good idea, currently tiddlywiki can't handle 
json data with more than one level. To get around this, instead of making a 
checked group and an unchecked group, I would name every item in the list 
in the tiddler that stores the state and give each one a value checked or 
unchecked. This would let people get the data about which item is checked 
or unchecked using filters or other things in the wiki.
When we add better support for arbitrary json data that wouldn't be a 
problem, but for now this would allow you to do things like have multiple 
lists and automatically generate a list of all checked or unchecked items 
from a set of lists using only wikitext.

Unless you have some objection I am going to put this in the plugin listing 
here  so it shows up in 
the community search 
.

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[twdev] Re: [TW5] Listing fields

[Jed Carty]

You may want to use a custom view template. They are discussed here 
http://tobibeer.github.io/tb5/#Conditional%20ViewTemplate%20Section. You 
could use modify tagging list example from that page by replacing the 
inside list widget with what I put in my previous post.

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[twdev] Re: [TW5] Listing fields

[Jed Carty]

There isn't a special wildcard character, but the regexp can use regular 
expressions to achieve the same thing. But in this case that would be 
overkill.

If you want to list every task field in a project you use this:

{{{ [is[current]fields[]prefix[task]] }}}

displaying the content of each task field is easier to do using the $list 
widget like this:

$list filter='[is[current]fields[]prefix[task]]' variable=ThisTask

$view field=ThisTask/
/$list

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[twdev] Re: [TW5] Add a new field Drop Down

[Jed Carty]

It has been mentioned before but I am not aware of anyone actually making 
any progress on it. It would be a very useful addition. I would start by 
looking at how the type field input works. It should be defined in the 
tiddler $:/core/ui/EditTemplate/type
I don't know if it is something that would be added to the core, but if you 
make a plugin I would use it in all of my wikis.

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[twdev] Re: [TW5] Problem with nsort?

[Jed Carty]

PE Pat,

While it doesn't fix the bug a (sort of) workaround is to use both sort and 
nsort like this

$list filter=3 5 1 7 b 2 8 4 6 a +[sort[]]+[nsort[]]/

In the small number of tests that I did this also works as desired unless 
you have two digit numbers, so it doesn't actually fix the problem in many 
situations.

It also works for this:

$list filter=3 5 1b 1a 7c b 2 8 4 6 a +[sort[]]+[nsort[]]/

but once again, only when there are no double digit numbers.

Although I agree that a way to sort mixed alphanumeric entries with a 
single operation would be a good idea.

Astrid,

In my tests with the prerelease sort orders them with only numeric entries 
followed by mixed entries so 1 2 5 7 3a 3b 6a 6b 6c is what I got in the 
prerelease. The other part works fine though.

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[twdev] Re: [TW5] Problem with nsort?

[Jed Carty]

When I go to http://tiddlywiki.com/prerelease and put

$list filter=3 5 1b 1a 7c b 2 8 10 20 4 6 a +[sort[]]currentTiddler 
/$list

into a tiddler it gives:

10 1a 1b 2 20 3 4 5 6 7c 8 a b

and if I replace sort with nsort it gives

2 3 4 5 6 8 10 20 1a 1b 7c a b

Although the prerelease is still making the title steal focus when I am 
editing a tiddler and I thought that was fixed, so I may be getting an old 
version for some reason.


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[twdev] Re: [TW5] This time rendering wikitext inside a tiddler using a widget.

[Jed Carty]

Thanks! That is exactly what I needed. The result is here 
http://inmysocks.tiddlyspot.com/#Calendar%20Plugin

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[twdev] [TW5] This time rendering wikitext inside a tiddler using a widget.

[Jed Carty]

I made a simple calendar widget that given a year and a month will build a 
calendar for that month with the correct layout. What I would like to do is 
to be able to give the widget a macro that it will run inside each day on 
the calendar to list things for that day or whatever you want it to do. The 
problem Is that I can't figure out how to get the macro to actually get 
wikified. The html part that builds the calendar works fine, I just can't 
do anything with it.

Here is what it currently does 
http://inmysocks.tiddlyspot.com/#Calendar%20widget%20example, I am hoping 
that I am just missing a step and fixing it will be simple.

Any suggestions?

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[twdev] Re: [TW5] TriggerActions Daemon and how to I evaluate a wikitext string using javascript

[Jed Carty]

It works! I had to put exports.after = [rootwidget]; and then just set 
the parent widget of the widget created to $tw.rootWidget

For messages handled by the navigator widget you have to put $navigator 
story='$:/StoryList' ... /$navigator around the action widget. I am not 
sure if it would be better to include the navigator widget in the parsed 
text or leave that to the user. There may be some reason the user wants to 
set it differently, and if I set it in the code there is no way for the 
user to do that.

But now I can make examples that will actually show what it is doing. And 
split the plugin into one for the start up actions and one for triggering 
actions.

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[twdev] Re: [TW5] TriggerActions Daemon and how to I evaluate a wikitext string using javascript

[Jed Carty]

For some reason widget messages that are supposed to be handled by the core 
don't work. This is unfortunate because tm-modal would probably be the 
easiest thing to use for a demo.

I think that this, and having to use the importvariables widget to get the 
macros to work, has something to do with the container the widget is 
rendered inside of. I have no idea what if that is actually the case or 
what to do about it.


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[twdev] Re: [TW5] TriggerActions Daemon and how to I evaluate a wikitext string using javascript

[Jed Carty]

I have written some quick and hopefully readable documentation 
http://inmysocks.tiddlyspot.com/#TriggerActions%20Plugin

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[twdev] Re: [TW5] TriggerActions Daemon and how to I evaluate a wikitext string using javascript

[Jed Carty]

The code is here: https://github.com/inmysocks/TW5-TriggerActions

Here is a quick demo with the plugin tiddler: 
http://ooktech.com/jed/ExampleWikis/TriggerActions/

I am working on documentation now, hopefully I will have reasonable 
documentation and some examples up by the end of the weekend.

Also since I guess I haven't said it in this group, I got it working the 
way I want it to and added startup-actions.js that does what Jeremy 
suggests in this github issue 
https://github.com/Jermolene/TiddlyWiki5/issues/1438
I should probably put the startup actions part into a separate plugin, that 
may come later.

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[twdev] Re: [TW5] TriggerActions Daemon and how to I evaluate a wikitext string using javascript

[Jed Carty]

I agree with Jeremy here, just looking over what you put here helped a lot 
with my understanding of how tiddlywiki works. That is if you have time of 
course.

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[twdev] [TW5] TriggerActions Daemon and how to I evaluate a wikitext string using javascript

[Jed Carty]

After a conversation with Tobais 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywikidev/p0epN2XlgZk it looks 
like it would be much more useful for me to create a general 'if any of 
these things change perform these actions' daemon instead of one that just 
does math. Most of it turned out to be very simple, except for the actually 
useful part where it evaluates the actions you give it. What I have is on 
github here https://github.com/inmysocks/TW5-TriggerActions and will give 
you a nice list of the action widgets/macros you would like it to evaluate 
in the console, without actually doing anything useful.

So, to make this do something useful I need to figure out two things:

1) Is it possible to get javascript to trigger an action widget when given 
the plain text string. I currently have it pull the text out of fields and 
each field is supposed to have an action widget to trigger, but 
unfortunately $tw.wiki.parseText(text/vnd.tiddlywiki,actionItem,) 
doesn't trigger whatever action widget expression is stored in actionItem. 
I didn't really expect it to but I was hoping to get lucky. I am not sure 
that what I want to do is actually possible without significant work, but I 
am hoping that someone who knows more about how the core works can tell me.

2) In the same context, is it possible to set the currentTiddler variable? 
Since I am not making a widget I don't think I can use the 
widget.setVariable function that the set widget uses, or at least I haven't 
figured out how to yet.

Said differently, I want to do the equivalent of

$tiddler tiddler=someTiddler

$action-setfield text=test/

(some list of more action widgets/macros)

/$tiddler

in javascript where someTiddler and the action widget expressions are given 
as strings, and the action widgets are triggered by the daemon when a 
tiddler changes.

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[twdev] Re: [TW5] MathyThing Daemon

[Jed Carty]

Roma,

Thanks for all your help! In case it wasn't obvious I have just started to 
try learning javascript recently and don't really have a strong coding 
background so your and advice and telling me that http://jshint.com 
http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fjshint.comsa=Dsntz=1usg=AFQjCNGa3TdAB46a2KC2OR58TgccrdHhTA
 
and http://jslint.com exist is very helpful. It looks like the problem I 
was asking about is from me using the same indexing variable in two nested 
loops, but now there are a bunch of other things to fix.

Nicholas,

There are many wonderful math tools, but I am trying to make something only 
a little more complex than the calc macro Tobias made that is integrated 
into a wiki in a way that I can use. Also this is as much to learn 
javascript as to actually get a working tool at the end.

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[twdev] Re: [TW5] MathyThing Daemon

[Jed Carty]

It works! I added some more functions to it, I don't have any documentation 
written yet but it does the same things as described here 
http://inmysocks.tiddlyspot.com/#MathyThing%20Plugin with different inputs. 
And it doesn't happen only when it is rendered now.

The code is on github 
(https://github.com/inmysocks/TW5-MathyThing/blob/master/math-daemon.js) if 
anyone is interested. I have the feeling that the demonstration of how 
simple making a process that will run in the background the way this does 
may be more interesting to people than the math things it can do.

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[twdev] [TW5] MathyThing Daemon

[Jed Carty]

I have been trying to get the math plugin I am working on set up as a 
daemon that listens for changes and updates its output when one of the 
tiddlers that has an expression in it changes.

At the moment the only function is summing fields from a list of tiddlers 
because I am running into a problem. The process will update and works as 
expected when there is only one expression to evaluate, and when there are 
multiple expressions but neither one actually has values to sum it works as 
expected. The second one can be seen because you can set the default value 
it outputs when it doesn't have any valid input.

The problem is that once at least one has valid inputs only one expression 
will update. I had assumed that this was because the first tiddler would 
write its output and force a refresh that prevented the daemon from 
finishing the update for the other expressions, but I can't find any place 
where that would happen when only the inputs to the second expression are 
changing.

I have been trying to figure this out for a while without any success, any 
ideas?

The code is on git hub: 
https://github.com/inmysocks/TW5-MathyThing/blob/master/sumfield-daemon.js

and an example wiki showing what happens is here: 
http://ooktech.com/jed/ExampleWikis/MathyThing/

The operation takes the list of tiddlers from the filter in the filter 
input field and sums the values in the field given in the sum field input 
and stores those values in the store field of the store tiddler. The result 
is also displayed in the expression tiddler.

In the example only Expression 1 will update regardless of the changes to 
the inputs to Expression 2.

Sorry if I didn't explain this well, I am very frustrated right now. Any 
help would be greatly appreciated.

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[twdev] Re: [TW5] Trying to access store.php is giving me a parse error, can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong?

[Jed Carty]

Rich,

I checked the permissions before uploading the file and they were set to 
744, but I didn't check the uploaded version. I will do that when I get 
home.
And that is a different version that Tobias has linked to on tb5, I will 
try the one you linked to.

Daniel,

After I couldn't get the version with my username and password in it I 
tried to use an unmodified version of the store.php found here 
https://code.google.com/p/bidix/source/browse/trunk/TiddlyHome/_th/lib/store.php
 
and got the same result. When I get home from work I am going to try the 
version Rich suggested and see if that makes a difference.

Thanks for your help!

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[twdev] Re: [TW5] Trying to access store.php is giving me a parse error, can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong?

[Jed Carty]

Using the newer version of store.php worked. Thanks!

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[twdev] [TW5] Trying to access store.php is giving me a parse error, can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong?

[Jed Carty]

I am trying to set up a tiddlywiki on my own domain following the 
instructions on the main site, but I keep getting the error 

Parse error: syntax error, unexpected T_VARIABLE in 
/home/jcarty/ooktech.com/jed/externalbrain/store.php on line 8

whenever I try to save. I had assumed this was because I did something 
wrong putting in the username and password into store.php, but it is 
happening even with an unmodified file. Trying to go to the store.php file 
in a browser does the same thing, so I may have done something wrong 
uploading it, but uploading a wiki worked fine (I uploaded this 
http://ooktech.com/iconmenus/).

I know almost nothing about this, so I am not sure if I am missing relevant 
information. Any ideas about what I am doing wrong?

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[twdev] Re: Delete as part of a Tiddler Pull Down - Is this a GitHub issue?

[Jed Carty]

It looks like it wouldn't be too hard to do that. The pulldown icon is in 
$:/core/ui/Buttons/more-tiddler-actions

It looks like adding the tag $:/tags/ViewToolbar to the tiddler 
$:/core/ui/Buttons/delete will do it. Just remember that you edited the 
tiddler if you do that so you don't have problems in the future if 
something gets updated in the core.

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[twdev] Re: Delete as part of a Tiddler Pull Down - Is this a GitHub issue?

[Jed Carty]

I don't think that it would be a problem to have that as a option in the 
core, but I wouldn't have the button visible by default.

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[twdev] Re: Delete as part of a Tiddler Pull Down - Is this a GitHub issue?

[Jed Carty]

You have to go into the view toolbar options in the control panel and make 
sure that the delete isn't selected there, the visible buttons aren't in 
the pull down menu.

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[twdev] Re: Very Basic Filter Question

[Jed Carty]

Do you have all of the information for every talk in one tiddler or do you have 
one for each talk?

If you have one for each talk than you can pull out the data using something 
like this:

\define getIndex()
$list filter='[[testdata]indexes[]]'
{{$(TEDVideo)$##$(DataIndex)$}}
/$list
\end

$list filter='[tag[TED Video Data]]' variable='TED Video'
$set name=DataIndex value='TED_Speaker'
getIndex
/$set

Which will list everything listed in the TED_Speaker indexes of data tiddlers 
tagged with 'TED Video Data'. This is assuming that you have one data tiddler 
per video. Due to the limitatins on json data tiddlers at the moment I would 
suggest just using fields for this now, since with fields you can just use the 
get operator to simplify things a lot since the code would then be:

$list filter='[tag[TED Video Data]get[TED_Speaker]]'

/$list

if you use normal tiddlers and fields to store the information.

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[twdev] Re: Very Basic Filter Question

[Jed Carty]

I have no idea why I put a filter in the macro, the macro should just be 
{{$(TED Video)$##$(DataIndex)$}}

Sorry about that.

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[twdev] Re: design of a media player

[Jed Carty]

Would creating a daemon to track the state for the player work? I am not 
sure how the mechanism works internally, but they can at least have 
internal timers that aren't affected by widgets being refreshed, so it may 
not have the same problems with losing information when tiddlers are 
rerendered that widgets do. If that is the case than you could have a media 
player daemon that starts when the media player is  loaded remembers the 
players status so any widgets can get information from it when they are 
forced to refresh. 

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[twdev] [TW5] Creating a daemon

[Jed Carty]

As Tobias and Jeremy pointed out to me in this thread 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tiddlywiki/-TCkLodo_AU my 
link-fields widget (and almost everything in my MathyThing plugin 
http://inmysocks.tiddlyspot.com/#MathyThing%20Plugin) updates the tiddler 
store when rendered. I am going to make action-widget versions of each one, 
but I would like to be able to create something that has the same 
functionality as the widgets in the MathyThing plugin that doesn't require 
a user action to update. 
Jeremy suggested I create a daemon that runs in the background and updates 
the outputs when appropriate. I was hoping that someone could point me in 
the direction of an example of a daemon used in tiddlywiki before I start 
poking the code trying to learn how without an example. I have found some 
examples of generic javascript daemons, but I am not familiar enough with 
javascript to implement them in tiddlywiki without a lot of trial and 
error, which is what I would like to avoid if possible.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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