Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast

2010-09-05 Thread Steve Rooke
On 5 September 2010 04:42, Rob Kimberley r...@timing-consultants.com wrote:
 Just a thought, as you are in southern hemisphere, wouldn't you see more
 birds facing North?

Oops! I really meant North. Well spotted that man. My satellite
azimuth/elevation chart looks quite typical to text-book style. My
GPSDOs still seem to be recovering from the long power outage caused
by the earthquake here early Saturday morning but the stats seem to be
settling down again. My timing gear and antenna were unaffected but it
sure moved some of the heavy HP instruments that I have piled up on my
workbench and demolished my computer rack, but luckily everything
seems to be working OK. The only thing that seems to be at fault is my
broadband which is playing up now and I wonder if the telephone lines
have been damaged in some way.

Cheers,
Steve

 Rob K

 -Original Message-
 From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
 Behalf Of Steve Rooke
 Sent: 03 September 2010 5:32 AM
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast

 If your nearby houses and obstructions are not high, IE. if the houses there
 are single story, you may be able to get away with what I have done. Instead
 of fixing something on the house, I've attached a couple of antenna to the
 top of one of my washing line poles in the garden as this faces South (I'm
 in the Southern Hemisphere) and I get an average of 7-8 sats every day and
 up to 12 at night. It makes any maintenance easy, if you get any snow it is
 easy to clear at that height, there is much less windage if your subject to
 strong winds and, if you don't use your washing line, the size of the poles
 make them quite rigid so you don't suffer a lot of noise that you would high
 up on a thin pole.
 Just a thought.

 Steve

 On 3 September 2010 12:46, Charles P. Steinmetz
 charles_steinm...@lavabit.com wrote:
 I'm curious what the best freestanding mast is for a timing antenna
 (think Lucent timing antenna or marine mushroom GPS antenna -- light
 and pretty small).  The mast would have its highest support at rooftop
 or chimney-top level, and could extend from there as far downward as
 the ground with additional supports as required.  Should be able to
 survive at least Category 2 winds and heavy snow and ice.

 What reasonably available mast material no more than, say, 3 in
 maximum cross-section would allow the most vertical extension above
 the highest support, and how much extension would that be?  I'm thinking
 10 feet of 2
 or so thin-wall steel tube may be OK, but beyond that I don't know.
 Tubing is probably not the optimum shape, but I assume the
 availability of other engineering shapes (say, + cross-section) is
 likely to be limited.

 Ideas?

 Thanks,

 Charles




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The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.
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Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast

2010-09-05 Thread Magnus Danielson

Hi Steve,

On 09/05/2010 10:18 AM, Steve Rooke wrote:

On 5 September 2010 04:42, Rob Kimberleyr...@timing-consultants.com  wrote:

Just a thought, as you are in southern hemisphere, wouldn't you see more
birds facing North?


Oops! I really meant North. Well spotted that man. My satellite
azimuth/elevation chart looks quite typical to text-book style. My
GPSDOs still seem to be recovering from the long power outage caused
by the earthquake here early Saturday morning but the stats seem to be
settling down again. My timing gear and antenna were unaffected but it
sure moved some of the heavy HP instruments that I have piled up on my
workbench and demolished my computer rack, but luckily everything
seems to be working OK. The only thing that seems to be at fault is my
broadband which is playing up now and I wonder if the telephone lines
have been damaged in some way.


I was about to ask how you New Zeeland time-nuts was doing and affected 
by the earthquake.


Cheers,
Magnus

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Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast

2010-09-05 Thread Bruce Griffiths

Magnus Danielson wrote:

Hi Steve,

On 09/05/2010 10:18 AM, Steve Rooke wrote:
On 5 September 2010 04:42, Rob Kimberleyr...@timing-consultants.com  
wrote:
Just a thought, as you are in southern hemisphere, wouldn't you see 
more

birds facing North?


Oops! I really meant North. Well spotted that man. My satellite
azimuth/elevation chart looks quite typical to text-book style. My
GPSDOs still seem to be recovering from the long power outage caused
by the earthquake here early Saturday morning but the stats seem to be
settling down again. My timing gear and antenna were unaffected but it
sure moved some of the heavy HP instruments that I have piled up on my
workbench and demolished my computer rack, but luckily everything
seems to be working OK. The only thing that seems to be at fault is my
broadband which is playing up now and I wonder if the telephone lines
have been damaged in some way.


I was about to ask how you New Zeeland time-nuts was doing and 
affected by the earthquake.


Cheers,
Magnus


Along with other North Island dwelling TN's I didn't feel a thing.

Bruce


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Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast

2010-09-05 Thread Steve Rooke
On 5 September 2010 22:29, Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
 Magnus Danielson wrote:

 Hi Steve,

 On 09/05/2010 10:18 AM, Steve Rooke wrote:

 On 5 September 2010 04:42, Rob Kimberleyr...@timing-consultants.com
  wrote:

 Just a thought, as you are in southern hemisphere, wouldn't you see more
 birds facing North?

 Oops! I really meant North. Well spotted that man. My satellite
 azimuth/elevation chart looks quite typical to text-book style. My
 GPSDOs still seem to be recovering from the long power outage caused
 by the earthquake here early Saturday morning but the stats seem to be
 settling down again. My timing gear and antenna were unaffected but it
 sure moved some of the heavy HP instruments that I have piled up on my
 workbench and demolished my computer rack, but luckily everything
 seems to be working OK. The only thing that seems to be at fault is my
 broadband which is playing up now and I wonder if the telephone lines
 have been damaged in some way.

 I was about to ask how you New Zeeland time-nuts was doing and affected by
 the earthquake.

 Cheers,
 Magnus

 Along with other North Island dwelling TN's I didn't feel a thing.

Apparently they felt it up to New Plymouth. I'm glad it did not hit
Auckland as the effects could have been much worse. Down here were
very hardy and a bit of a wobble is nothing :)

Steve

 Bruce


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-- 
Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV  G8KVD
The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.
- Einstein

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Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast

2010-09-05 Thread Steve Rooke
Meant to add, my Z3805 always used to report that the antenna hight
was +7.50m (MSL) but now it is saying +6.20 (MSL), if you believe
that.

Steve

On 5 September 2010 23:56, Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 5 September 2010 22:29, Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz wrote:
 Magnus Danielson wrote:

 Hi Steve,

 On 09/05/2010 10:18 AM, Steve Rooke wrote:

 On 5 September 2010 04:42, Rob Kimberleyr...@timing-consultants.com
  wrote:

 Just a thought, as you are in southern hemisphere, wouldn't you see more
 birds facing North?

 Oops! I really meant North. Well spotted that man. My satellite
 azimuth/elevation chart looks quite typical to text-book style. My
 GPSDOs still seem to be recovering from the long power outage caused
 by the earthquake here early Saturday morning but the stats seem to be
 settling down again. My timing gear and antenna were unaffected but it
 sure moved some of the heavy HP instruments that I have piled up on my
 workbench and demolished my computer rack, but luckily everything
 seems to be working OK. The only thing that seems to be at fault is my
 broadband which is playing up now and I wonder if the telephone lines
 have been damaged in some way.

 I was about to ask how you New Zeeland time-nuts was doing and affected by
 the earthquake.

 Cheers,
 Magnus

 Along with other North Island dwelling TN's I didn't feel a thing.

 Apparently they felt it up to New Plymouth. I'm glad it did not hit
 Auckland as the effects could have been much worse. Down here were
 very hardy and a bit of a wobble is nothing :)

 Steve

 Bruce


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 --
 Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV  G8KVD
 The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.
 - Einstein




-- 
Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV  G8KVD
The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.
- Einstein

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[time-nuts] New Zealand earthquake...

2010-09-05 Thread Burt I. Weiner

Steve,

Glad to hear that you're all ok and that your equipment survived.  We 
have family in Christchurch and they're also all ok.  Next time we 
get over there we'll have to get together to poke and giggle.


Burt, K6OQK



From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast

Oops! I really meant North. Well spotted that man. My satellite
azimuth/elevation chart looks quite typical to text-book style. My
GPSDOs still seem to be recovering from the long power outage caused
by the earthquake here early Saturday morning but the stats seem to be
settling down again. My timing gear and antenna were unaffected but it
sure moved some of the heavy HP instruments that I have piled up on my
workbench and demolished my computer rack, but luckily everything
seems to be working OK. The only thing that seems to be at fault is my
broadband which is playing up now and I wonder if the telephone lines
have been damaged in some way.

Cheers,
Steve


Burt I. Weiner Associates
Broadcast Technical Services
Glendale, California  U.S.A.
b...@att.net
www.biwa.cc
K6OQK 



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Re: [time-nuts] New Zealand earthquake...

2010-09-05 Thread Steve Rooke
Burt,

Thanks for your kind thoughts and I'm glad your family is OK. Yes,
when you come here next, look me up and we can get together for a beer
and a chin wag.

73,
Steve ZL3TUV

On 6 September 2010 02:00, Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net wrote:
 Steve,

 Glad to hear that you're all ok and that your equipment survived.  We have
 family in Christchurch and they're also all ok.  Next time we get over there
 we'll have to get together to poke and giggle.

 Burt, K6OQK


 From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast

 Oops! I really meant North. Well spotted that man. My satellite
 azimuth/elevation chart looks quite typical to text-book style. My
 GPSDOs still seem to be recovering from the long power outage caused
 by the earthquake here early Saturday morning but the stats seem to be
 settling down again. My timing gear and antenna were unaffected but it
 sure moved some of the heavy HP instruments that I have piled up on my
 workbench and demolished my computer rack, but luckily everything
 seems to be working OK. The only thing that seems to be at fault is my
 broadband which is playing up now and I wonder if the telephone lines
 have been damaged in some way.

 Cheers,
 Steve

 Burt I. Weiner Associates
 Broadcast Technical Services
 Glendale, California  U.S.A.
 b...@att.net
 www.biwa.cc
 K6OQK

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-- 
Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV  G8KVD
The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once.
- Einstein

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[time-nuts] GPS ceramic patch in what plastic housing?

2010-09-05 Thread Peter Krengel
Hello,

I just did some experiments using a ceramic patch antenna inside a
small plastic (80 x 30 x 20mm) screw box and experienced much bader signals at 
lower elevations.
The plastic is marked as PS (I guess polystyrole ?). Further experiments
covering a GPS with the same kind of box seemed to effect the signals
too. On the other hand covering the patch with a flat pcs of the same
material didnt effect the antenna. 

Is there possibly a cavity effect?

What to take best?

Any ideas?


Thank you

Peter, DG4EK
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS ceramic patch in what plastic housing?

2010-09-05 Thread Robert Atkinson
Hi Peter,
Sounds like refraction. The plastic has more effect at lower angles.
 
Robert G8RPI

--- On Sun, 5/9/10, Peter Krengel krengelda...@gmx.de wrote:


From: Peter Krengel krengelda...@gmx.de
Subject: [time-nuts] GPS ceramic patch in what plastic housing?
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Date: Sunday, 5 September, 2010, 17:12


Hello,

I just did some experiments using a ceramic patch antenna inside a
small plastic (80 x 30 x 20mm) screw box and experienced much bader signals at 
lower elevations.
The plastic is marked as PS (I guess polystyrole ?). Further experiments
covering a GPS with the same kind of box seemed to effect the signals
too. On the other hand covering the patch with a flat pcs of the same
material didnt effect the antenna. 

Is there possibly a cavity effect?

What to take best?

Any ideas?


Thank you

Peter, DG4EK
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS ceramic patch in what plastic housing?

2010-09-05 Thread Stanley Reynolds
Test the box minus the screws in a microwave oven if the material heats up then 
it is not transparent. May not be the plastic but a pigment that was added to 
give the box it's color.

Stanley



- Original Message 
From: Peter Krengel krengelda...@gmx.de
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sun, September 5, 2010 11:12:05 AM
Subject: [time-nuts] GPS ceramic patch in what plastic housing?

Hello,

I just did some experiments using a ceramic patch antenna inside a
small plastic (80 x 30 x 20mm) screw box and experienced much bader signals at 
lower elevations.
The plastic is marked as PS (I guess polystyrole ?). Further experiments
covering a GPS with the same kind of box seemed to effect the signals
too. On the other hand covering the patch with a flat pcs of the same
material didnt effect the antenna. 

Is there possibly a cavity effect?

What to take best?

Any ideas?


Thank you

Peter, DG4EK
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS ceramic patch in what plastic housing?

2010-09-05 Thread Stanley Reynolds
The plastic may also function as a lens particularly the corners of the box
see:

http://authors.library.caltech.edu/10409/1/ZMUieeetmtt92.pdf

figure 2 shows a polyethylene lens.

Stanley

- Original Message 
From: Peter Krengel krengelda...@gmx.de
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sun, September 5, 2010 11:12:05 AM
Subject: [time-nuts] GPS ceramic patch in what plastic housing?

Hello,

I just did some experiments using a ceramic patch antenna inside a
small plastic (80 x 30 x 20mm) screw box and experienced much bader signals at 
lower elevations.
The plastic is marked as PS (I guess polystyrole ?). Further experiments
covering a GPS with the same kind of box seemed to effect the signals
too. On the other hand covering the patch with a flat pcs of the same
material didnt effect the antenna. 

Is there possibly a cavity effect?

What to take best?

Any ideas?


Thank you

Peter, DG4EK
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS ceramic patch in what plastic housing?

2010-09-05 Thread Bob Camp
Hi

What are you trying to achieve ? 

If you are looking for a simple cover for the patch, the microwave oven is your 
friend. Anything that heats up in a microwave is a bad idea, unless it's thin. 
Most materials with a variable cross section will act as a lens to some extent.

Bob



On Sep 5, 2010, at 12:12 PM, Peter Krengel krengelda...@gmx.de wrote:

 Hello,
 
 I just did some experiments using a ceramic patch antenna inside a
 small plastic (80 x 30 x 20mm) screw box and experienced much bader signals 
 at lower elevations.
 The plastic is marked as PS (I guess polystyrole ?). Further experiments
 covering a GPS with the same kind of box seemed to effect the signals
 too. On the other hand covering the patch with a flat pcs of the same
 material didnt effect the antenna. 
 
 Is there possibly a cavity effect?
 
 What to take best?
 
 Any ideas?
 
 
 Thank you
 
 Peter, DG4EK
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[time-nuts] GPS ceramic patch in what plastic housing?

2010-09-05 Thread Peter Krengel
Thanks Robert, Stanley and Bob for the tips.

I tested some materials in a microwave oven and they all seemed to
be good because there was no heating (maybe handwarm at 800W).

So the magic word seems to be refracting effects even at 1.5GHz...

As I cannot get a commercial helf sphere for putting over the patch
has anyone an idea what to take for i.e. from kitchen?

Peter
DG4EK
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS ceramic patch in what plastic housing?

2010-09-05 Thread Stanley Reynolds
I would try a search for cake pans in the archive. Large funnel inverted to 
cover.

http://www.mail-archive.com/time-nuts@febo.com/msg27517.html

http://www.mail-archive.com/time-nuts@febo.com/msg27561.html

Stanley



- Original Message 
From: Peter Krengel krengelda...@gmx.de
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sun, September 5, 2010 3:06:26 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] GPS ceramic patch in what plastic housing?

Thanks Robert, Stanley and Bob for the tips.

I tested some materials in a microwave oven and they all seemed to
be good because there was no heating (maybe handwarm at 800W).

So the magic word seems to be refracting effects even at 1.5GHz...

As I cannot get a commercial helf sphere for putting over the patch
has anyone an idea what to take for i.e. from kitchen?

Peter
DG4EK
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS ceramic patch in what plastic housing?

2010-09-05 Thread Magnus Danielson

On 09/05/2010 10:06 PM, Peter Krengel wrote:

Thanks Robert, Stanley and Bob for the tips.

I tested some materials in a microwave oven and they all seemed to
be good because there was no heating (maybe handwarm at 800W).

So the magic word seems to be refracting effects even at 1.5GHz...

As I cannot get a commercial helf sphere for putting over the patch
has anyone an idea what to take for i.e. from kitchen?


One should recall that some plastics absorb more water than others... so 
unless one has a good info on their absorbtion, putting them into water 
overnight and the pour it out and wipe it clean just prior to microwave 
it would form a better simulation...


Cheers,
Magnus

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[time-nuts] Maintenance manual for Racal 1998 and 1999 universal counter timers

2010-09-05 Thread David C. Partridge
I'm looking for this - has any one found a copy in the wild?

Thanks,
David Partridge



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Re: [time-nuts] Maintenance manual for Racal 1998 and 1999 universal counter timers

2010-09-05 Thread Bill Hawkins
Darn the bad luck. I thought you had them for sale. 

-Original Message-
From: David C. Partridge
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 4:18 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] Maintenance manual for Racal 1998 and 1999 universal
counter timers

I'm looking for this - has any one found a copy in the wild?

Thanks,
David Partridge


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Re: [time-nuts] GPS ceramic patch in what plastic housing?

2010-09-05 Thread Bob Camp
Hi 

Plastic salad bowls might do ok. More or less it's an adventure trip to the 
local kitchen stuff store.

Bob



On Sep 5, 2010, at 4:06 PM, Peter Krengel krengelda...@gmx.de wrote:

 Thanks Robert, Stanley and Bob for the tips.
 
 I tested some materials in a microwave oven and they all seemed to
 be good because there was no heating (maybe handwarm at 800W).
 
 So the magic word seems to be refracting effects even at 1.5GHz...
 
 As I cannot get a commercial helf sphere for putting over the patch
 has anyone an idea what to take for i.e. from kitchen?
 
 Peter
 DG4EK
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS ceramic patch in what plastic housing?

2010-09-05 Thread Chuck Harris

Why go to that much trouble.  An old pickle jar would probably do just as well.

-Chuck Harris

WB6BNQ wrote:

Hi Peter,

While you did not say, I am going to guess you are considering making a weather
proof (or nearly so) housing for your ceramic patch antenna.  I have used the
little patch antennas with the magnetic base from Motorola for the top of my
car.  They seem to last quite long as the one I have has been out in the 
elements
(San Diego, CA) for around 9 or ten years.  Yes, its plastic housing is showing
some discoloration from the UV rays, but no operational issues.

However, for a housing, may I suggest a small PYREX glass mixing bowl.  It is a
little heavy but very sturdy and some have an edge that could be used to hold it
in place by fitting a collar around it made out of wood that would get clamped 
to
the base which could be made out of wood.  The wood would have to be varnished
with a good Urethane.

Anyway, my two cents;

BillWB6BNQ


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Re: [time-nuts] Maintenance manual for Racal 1998 and 1999 universal counter timers

2010-09-05 Thread EB4APL

David,

I think that I must have it.  I'll check it tomorrow.

Regards,
Ignacio EB4APL

David C. Partridge wrote:

I'm looking for this - has any one found a copy in the wild?

Thanks,
David Partridge



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Re: [time-nuts] GPS ceramic patch in what plastic housing?

2010-09-05 Thread WB6BNQ
Good point Chuck,

Finding jars these days that are made out of glass is becoming a thing of the 
past.  So
many things are going plastic.

BillWB6BNQ


Chuck Harris wrote:

 Why go to that much trouble.  An old pickle jar would probably do just as 
 well.

 -Chuck Harris

 WB6BNQ wrote:
  Hi Peter,
 
  While you did not say, I am going to guess you are considering making a 
  weather
  proof (or nearly so) housing for your ceramic patch antenna.  I have used 
  the
  little patch antennas with the magnetic base from Motorola for the top of my
  car.  They seem to last quite long as the one I have has been out in the 
  elements
  (San Diego, CA) for around 9 or ten years.  Yes, its plastic housing is 
  showing
  some discoloration from the UV rays, but no operational issues.
 
  However, for a housing, may I suggest a small PYREX glass mixing bowl.  It 
  is a
  little heavy but very sturdy and some have an edge that could be used to 
  hold it
  in place by fitting a collar around it made out of wood that would get 
  clamped to
  the base which could be made out of wood.  The wood would have to be 
  varnished
  with a good Urethane.
 
  Anyway, my two cents;
 
  BillWB6BNQ

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Re: [time-nuts] Maintenance manual for Racal 1998 and 1999 universal counter timers

2010-09-05 Thread Charles P. Steinmetz

David wrote:


I'm looking for this - has any one found a copy in the wild?


This site purports to have it:

http://www.mods.dk/manual.php?brand=racal

I've never downloaded anything there -- I think you may have to register.

Best regards,

Charles







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Re: [time-nuts] Maintenance manual for Racal 1998 and 1999universal counter timers

2010-09-05 Thread WB6BNQ
Hi Charles,

Well I am registered there and went to see.  Sure enough it was there as a zip
file and I downloaded it and then sent by email to David.

BillWB6BNQ


Charles P. Steinmetz wrote:

 David wrote:

 I'm looking for this - has any one found a copy in the wild?

 This site purports to have it:

 http://www.mods.dk/manual.php?brand=racal

 I've never downloaded anything there -- I think you may have to register.

 Best regards,

 Charles

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