Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
What is it you need? Do you really need an HP-5065 r to do jet need a good 10MHz standard? What is the intended use/ On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 2:19 PM, J. L. Trantham jlt...@att.net wrote: Edgardo, I would think something in the $500 range for a working unit would be worth considering, depending on options, condition, etc. Anything lower would be better. More depending how 'addicted' you might be to these. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Thunderbolt leap second video
Leap second capture of Lady Heather screen. Select 720p to see it properly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbvMZikqtI4 -- 73s! Esa OH4KJU ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] So, how did you spend your leapsecond?
Quote from an unidentified admin: Posted: Yesterday 10:35:14 PM im rebooting a couple hundred linux servers right now, it caught us by surprise and boofed our production environment tonight. i walk in from a road trip across texas (carbine class) and in my door my phone starts ringing. well feck. Grist to the mill of the anti LS lobby. I expect someone will publish estimates of total cost shortly. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] So, how did you spend your leapsecond?
I spent it taking screengrabs of Twitter: http://phk.freebsd.dk/hacks/leap_20120630/index.html -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second Results
Nice list. You clearly have the disease. (Where do you find the time? :-) ) I think the first, Z3810A, was meant to be Z3801A, correct? On 6/30/2012 7:32 PM, BD Systems Inc. wrote: In testing and loggging the Z3810A, Z3805A, Z3815A, Z3816A, 59503A, 58503B and the 59551A GPS Receivers, all of which sequenced as follows (Note Denver MST) 17:59:59 18:00:00 18:00:01 18:00:01 (at this point the Leap Second indicator was cleared). Chuck Zabilski ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] FTS125 GPS Module
Hi There are a lot of pathogenic firmware releases for some of the CW parts… Bob On Jun 28, 2012, at 7:59 PM, saidj...@aol.com wrote: Yes, I am sure, depends on the firmware revision and configuration settings. Don't want to name any names here though. Secondary firmware can detect, and prevent this behavior once you know it exists, and what makes it happen. That's part of what makes the difference between an NCO and a real GPSDO. With an NCO such as the FTS parts, you get a simple analog PLL that has no smarts or intelligence, and a GPS receiver that can get hung up when in holdover for excessive amounts of time. There is ample evidence in the time nuts archives that the Trimble GPS have problems getting a fix in the first place after power-on. Several users reported that here, and in other places. Also, now we are being told that Trimble discontinued the Mini-T, and we see lot's of customers panicking and looking for replacement solutions as Trimble seems to not want to offer a replacement product and is giving a last-time-buy notice. Sorry for those customers, gives an opportunity for others to move in. bye, Said In a message dated 6/28/2012 12:21:27 Pacific Daylight Time, azelio.bori...@screen.it writes: other GPS receivers have the same exact problems when left in holdover for hours or more Are you sure? Never seen that behavior on a Trimble, Motorola/iLotus, uBlox, Sanav or SkyTraq receiver, only on NavSync. The locking algorithm of the FTS250 (and maybe the FTS125 too) is a National LMX series PLL chip (I can't remember the exact part number, have to check with the FTS250 COO we have). ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] So, how did you spend your leapsecond?
Sweating without power, trying to keep a 1942 generator running enough to keep the fridge running (required a mid day magneto tear down)... In between dips in a kiddie pool and 'saving' beers from getting too hot of course.. Brent ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] So, how did you spend your leapsecond?
Watched on my Thunderbolt's external monitor: https://www.dropbox.com/s/y5951au8lukljot/LeapSecond20120630.3gp Mike Blazer On 6/30/2012 7:07 PM, Mark Sims wrote: ? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt leap second video
A 61 second minute... Just curious - can GPS handle a fall back second? On 07/01/2012 12:50 AM, Esa Heikkinen wrote: Leap second capture of Lady Heather screen. Select 720p to see it properly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbvMZikqtI4 -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt leap second video
Yes it can have a fall back second although the probability is small, the Earth's rotation rate would have had to increase. But the deciding committee allowed for both + and - leap seconds. John WA4WDL -- From: Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2012 10:51 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt leap second video A 61 second minute... Just curious - can GPS handle a fall back second? On 07/01/2012 12:50 AM, Esa Heikkinen wrote: Leap second capture of Lady Heather screen. Select 720p to see it properly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbvMZikqtI4 -- Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R c...@omen.com www.omen.com Developer of Industrial ZMODEM(Tm) for Embedded Applications Omen Technology Inc The High Reliability Software 10255 NW Old Cornelius Pass Portland OR 97231 503-614-0430 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] So, how did you spend your leapsecond?
We spent our leapsecond reading books by kerosene lamp as the power failure continued... And, no, the power failure wasn't caused by the leapsecond, but rather a very strong thunderstorm that came roaring through parts of Maryland trees down everywhere. ... Well, unless Mother Nature is yet another that is offended by the shear lunacy of leapseconds. There are large numbers still without power even now. -Chuck Harris Mark Sims wrote: ? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Dear Chris, One of my needs: A dependable Rb source. HP appeals to me as most of my electronics lab equipment comes from that house. I have seen numerous other Rb sources here and there but would like to afford an HP unit. I know I can go to the party driving either a 60's VW beattle or driving a 60's Ford Mustang. Both of them can get me there. Still personally, I rather drive the V8 beast. The robustness, mechanics, physics package characteristics and form factor, homogeneous with my HP quartz frequency standards and frequency counters is what catches my eye when looking at that model. Let's say 50% looks and desire and 50% for what it is. It will be used in my time and frequency lab. Hobby use, a learning tool, an object of desire... As a time and frequency hobbyist, I feel it is valid to assume my investments as big boy toys. The marvel of accessing a childhood dream of having a frequency and time lab at home, an educational and research niche activity and the possibility to work with this instrument, while cruising the long and torturous path of physics and engineering understanding. You have a nice day! Cheers! Edgardo Molina XE1XUS On Jul 1, 2012, at 1:22 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: What is it you need? Do you really need an HP-5065 r to do jet need a good 10MHz standard? What is the intended use/ On Sat, Jun 30, 2012 at 2:19 PM, J. L. Trantham jlt...@att.net wrote: Edgardo, I would think something in the $500 range for a working unit would be worth considering, depending on options, condition, etc. Anything lower would be better. More depending how 'addicted' you might be to these. Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] So, how did you spend your leapsecond?
I was dinning at an Argentinean restaurant with my wife and some friends of her. Armed with a 3G Internet equipped iPad and sharing the story with the people at the table. Good food, good company and the opportunity to shine publicly (at least for a leap second), explaining time keeping to a table full of psychologists. A lonely engineering soul being analyzed for sure by the phycological minds. Nice warm and rainy afternoon in Mexico City. Regards to you all, Edgardo Molina XE1XUS On Jul 1, 2012, at 10:27 AM, Chuck Harris wrote: We spent our leapsecond reading books by kerosene lamp as the power failure continued... And, no, the power failure wasn't caused by the leapsecond, but rather a very strong thunderstorm that came roaring through parts of Maryland trees down everywhere. ... Well, unless Mother Nature is yet another that is offended by the shear lunacy of leapseconds. There are large numbers still without power even now. -Chuck Harris Mark Sims wrote: ? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] So, how did you spend your leapsecond?
I made the most of it by grabbed the HV terminal on a power right at Leapsecond and in that moment watched my whole life pass before me. Thomas Knox From: xe1...@amsat.org To: time-nuts@febo.com Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2012 11:05:55 -0500 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] So, how did you spend your leapsecond? I was dinning at an Argentinean restaurant with my wife and some friends of her. Armed with a 3G Internet equipped iPad and sharing the story with the people at the table. Good food, good company and the opportunity to shine publicly (at least for a leap second), explaining time keeping to a table full of psychologists. A lonely engineering soul being analyzed for sure by the phycological minds. Nice warm and rainy afternoon in Mexico City. Regards to you all, Edgardo Molina XE1XUS On Jul 1, 2012, at 10:27 AM, Chuck Harris wrote: We spent our leapsecond reading books by kerosene lamp as the power failure continued... And, no, the power failure wasn't caused by the leapsecond, but rather a very strong thunderstorm that came roaring through parts of Maryland trees down everywhere. ... Well, unless Mother Nature is yet another that is offended by the shear lunacy of leapseconds. There are large numbers still without power even now. -Chuck Harris Mark Sims wrote: ? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] So, how did you spend your leapsecond?
Well, one of my reference standards - and the most expensive - worked through the leap second thus:- 58 59 00 01 02 etc. To be fair though, it predates the Leap Second by a few years and there are no applicable firmware updates. For those who are interested, it was manufactured by Wm. Thompson of Newbury, England around 1765. Other time references, Thunderbolt/Lady Heather etc. all worked as others have stated. Off to wind the old girl up, Is it right to call a long case/grandfather clock old girl? 73 Geoff -- # Geoff Blake, G8GNZJO01fq: Chelmsford, Essex, UK ge...@palaemon.co.ukor melecert...@gmail.com Using Linux: Ubuntu 11.04 on Intel or Debian on UltraSparc and even on the NAS. Avoiding Micro$oft like the plague. # ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Edgardo Molina xe1...@amsat.org wrote: Dear Chris, One of my needs: A dependable Rb source. HP appeals to me as most of my electronics lab equipment comes from that house. I have seen numerous other Rb sources here and there but would like to afford an HP unit. I know I can go to the party driving either a 60's VW beattle or driving a 60's Ford Mustang. Both of them can get me there. Still personally, I rather drive the V8 beast. The robustness, mechanics, physics package characteristics and form factor, homogeneous with my HP quartz frequency standards and frequency counters is what catches my eye when looking at that model. Let's say 50% looks and desire and 50% for what it is. It will be used in my time and frequency lab. Hobby use, a learning tool, an object of desire... OK that is a reasonable use, you just want one.But the Rb units on eBay are much more resent manufacture, better secs and well under $100. But no HP name plate and you must apply the DC power. They score near zero in looks as they are just the bare oscillator. Look at this eBay number: 300719752578 It is a very good unit from a seller many people know. The specs are very good. I bought one like this back when the price was $39 shipped. 300606871861 Mine is preforming very well. It provides a reference for a a few HP Universal Counters. But really if you are setting up a lab at home the first thing you should buy is the Thunderbolt and a good antenna. You will need one to calibrate your Rubidium oscillators. (yes oscillators with a pleural s. how else to cross check them if you have only one?) Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Chris, The HP 5065A is one of the best Rb ever made. /tvb (iPhone4) On Jul 1, 2012, at 21:12, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Edgardo Molina xe1...@amsat.org wrote: Dear Chris, One of my needs: A dependable Rb source. HP appeals to me as most of my electronics lab equipment comes from that house. I have seen numerous other Rb sources here and there but would like to afford an HP unit. I know I can go to the party driving either a 60's VW beattle or driving a 60's Ford Mustang. Both of them can get me there. Still personally, I rather drive the V8 beast. The robustness, mechanics, physics package characteristics and form factor, homogeneous with my HP quartz frequency standards and frequency counters is what catches my eye when looking at that model. Let's say 50% looks and desire and 50% for what it is. It will be used in my time and frequency lab. Hobby use, a learning tool, an object of desire... OK that is a reasonable use, you just want one.But the Rb units on eBay are much more resent manufacture, better secs and well under $100. But no HP name plate and you must apply the DC power. They score near zero in looks as they are just the bare oscillator. Look at this eBay number: 300719752578 It is a very good unit from a seller many people know. The specs are very good. I bought one like this back when the price was $39 shipped. 300606871861 Mine is preforming very well. It provides a reference for a a few HP Universal Counters. But really if you are setting up a lab at home the first thing you should buy is the Thunderbolt and a good antenna. You will need one to calibrate your Rubidium oscillators. (yes oscillators with a pleural s. how else to cross check them if you have only one?) Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] So, how did you spend your leapsecond?
Hi, From: Brendan Minish ei6iz.bren...@gmail.com Dealing with servers and this issue Mine worked OK. But, to avoid the next we could make a habit of sneezing toward West! Bye, Jean-Louis ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second on Datum ExacTime 6000...Oh well...
All, I have uploaded the video of the leap second on the Datum ExacTime 6000 unit at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJWGBTXLWeAfeature=plcp Cheers, Bert, VE2ZAZ - Original Message - From: Bert, VE2ZAZ ve2...@yahoo.ca To: time-nuts@febo.com time-nuts@febo.com Cc: Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2012 8:44:23 PM Subject: Leap Second on Datum ExacTime 6000...Oh well... Hi, This is to report the behavior of my Datum ExacTime 6000 unit dealing with the leap second. I think the behavior shows the age of the unit (around year 2000). It has firmware DT102E. - It showed two 58 seconds, that would be the leap second insertion... - It showed a 60 second... what? That made it two leap seconds... - It skipped the 05 second of the following minute to subtract the extraneous leap second added above... I have captured this on video and will likely put that on Youtube for those who may be interested. I captured CHU's audio in the background. By the way, CHU's transmitted data was an extra tick for the 60 second. Regards, Bert, VE2ZAZ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] So, how did you spend your leapsecond?
On 01/07/2012 01:07, Mark Sims wrote: ? Shopping. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Shhh, I was hoping he'd succeed in his apparent attempt to drive 5065A prices down, so I can round up a few more for myself! $78 is a great price for an LPRO-101, certainly, but you can't compare them to the HP rubidiums. The latter's specs (as well as its secs) are vastly better. Edgardo, I don't know if you've seen the relative performance that can be expected from various Rb standards, but if not, check out http://www.ke5fx.com/rb.htm and N8UR's plots at http://febo.com/pages/oscillators/rubes/ (which were taken with a 5065A as the reference.) This is why it's worth the effort to bring an HP 5065A back from the dead, even if the cost is higher than an LPRO or PRS10. The real problem with the 5065A is that it represents the end of the line for most noncommercial users. There are no further upgrade possibilities for taus out to several hours -- not even the best commercial cesium standards -- until you get into masers. -- john, KE5FX www.miles.io Chris, The HP 5065A is one of the best Rb ever made. /tvb (iPhone4) On Jul 1, 2012, at 21:12, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Edgardo Molina xe1...@amsat.org wrote: Dear Chris, One of my needs: A dependable Rb source. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Tom, Chris, The HP 5065A is one of the best Rb ever made. /tvb (iPhone4) Have you or any other list member had the opportunity to take measurements on the ElmerPerkin/EGG Space rubidiums (in a lab environment)? http://www.excelitas.com/Downloads/DTS_Frequency_Standards_RAFS.pdf -- Björn ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
John Miles said the following on 07/01/2012 05:18 PM: The real problem with the 5065A is that it represents the end of the line for most noncommercial users. There are no further upgrade possibilities for taus out to several hours -- not even the best commercial cesium standards -- until you get into masers. This is a really good (and frustrating!) point. The 5065A is not stellar at taus less than a few seconds -- mine doesn't quite hit 1x10e-12 at 1 second -- but from that point out to at least 10K seconds, it's extraordinary. Here's a plot I did recently of the short-term stability of some atomics, versus a BVA which is below 3x10e-13 from 0.1 out to 10K seconds. You can infer how good the 5065A is at medium tau from the fact that it's still on the way down when the BVA aging starts to show at around 600 seconds: http://www.febo.com/pages/oscillators/atomics/ I'm still planning to do a (long) comparison of the 5065A vs. my best Cs or a GPSDO to see if I can find its floor. John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] So, how did you spend your leapsecond?
Well, the list isn't called Time Nuts for nothing. Mike On 7/1/2012 11:05 AM, Edgardo Molina wrote: I was dinning at an Argentinean restaurant with my wife and some friends of her. Armed with a 3G Internet equipped iPad and sharing the story with the people at the table. Good food, good company and the opportunity to shine publicly (at least for a leap second), explaining time keeping to a table full of psychologists. A lonely engineering soul being analyzed for sure by the phycological minds. Nice warm and rainy afternoon in Mexico City. Regards to you all, Edgardo Molina XE1XUS On Jul 1, 2012, at 10:27 AM, Chuck Harris wrote: We spent our leapsecond reading books by kerosene lamp as the power failure continued... And, no, the power failure wasn't caused by the leapsecond, but rather a very strong thunderstorm that came roaring through parts of Maryland trees down everywhere. ... Well, unless Mother Nature is yet another that is offended by the shear lunacy of leapseconds. There are large numbers still without power even now. -Chuck Harris Mark Sims wrote: ? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] US 5065A standby battery cell source?
All this discussion of the excellence of these Rb units reminds me that another cell must have died in my battery pack since the slightest glitch in the power here now makes the green light go out. The last time a cell died I just took it out since it actually seems to work well enough with 20 instead of the specified 21, but another one seems to have gone high resistance. So, my question is: where might be a good place in the US to get tabbed NiMH AA cells to replace the battery in mine? I am currently using generic Chinese ones, but am not at all happy with their longevity. And this one came from eBay, quite a bit less than $500 because it looked filthy, but it took a lot of patience to find it and a bit of TLC to get it going, but it has been working superbly for about four years now. Dan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Leap second and Netflix
I cannot duplicate the minor Netflix stoppage I had yesterday at the leap second. Pausing Netflix before the top of the hour did not cause a problem. Neither did pausing it just before 00:00:00 UTC today. So, I assume that the glitch was caused by the leap second. Joe Gray W5JG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] US 5065A standby battery cell source?
A couple of years ago, I needed a replacement for a NiCd pack for a Tek J16 Photomer. I found that Digi-Key would make up even one N x M battery pack to order, for little more than the cost of the cells. They had both end-to-end and side-by-side arrangements and did a nice job. I've not looked lately. Their cells are not the chepest, but to me it ws worth it. YMMV, -John = All this discussion of the excellence of these Rb units reminds me that another cell must have died in my battery pack since the slightest glitch in the power here now makes the green light go out. The last time a cell died I just took it out since it actually seems to work well enough with 20 instead of the specified 21, but another one seems to have gone high resistance. So, my question is: where might be a good place in the US to get tabbed NiMH AA cells to replace the battery in mine? I am currently using generic Chinese ones, but am not at all happy with their longevity. And this one came from eBay, quite a bit less than $500 because it looked filthy, but it took a lot of patience to find it and a bit of TLC to get it going, but it has been working superbly for about four years now. Dan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] US 5065A standby battery cell source?
I get my tabbed batteries from Batteries America. Decent prices and good quality. On Jul 1, 2012, at 19:41, Dan Rae dan...@verizon.net wrote: All this discussion of the excellence of these Rb units reminds me that another cell must have died in my battery pack since the slightest glitch in the power here now makes the green light go out. The last time a cell died I just took it out since it actually seems to work well enough with 20 instead of the specified 21, but another one seems to have gone high resistance. So, my question is: where might be a good place in the US to get tabbed NiMH AA cells to replace the battery in mine? I am currently using generic Chinese ones, but am not at all happy with their longevity. And this one came from eBay, quite a bit less than $500 because it looked filthy, but it took a lot of patience to find it and a bit of TLC to get it going, but it has been working superbly for about four years now. Dan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] So, how did you spend your leapsecond?
After watching Blade Runner (the director cut) reposition on a TV channel, that ended just one minute before 2am local time, I watched my nixie clock to, as I was expecting, held 02:00:00 (local time) by two seconds. Surely its GPS (an M12T) sent the right time to the uC, 23:59:60 UTC... but I'm guilty of not taking into account leap seconds when I implemented the UTC to local time conversion, including automatic daylight savings (that was about 9 years ago, I think... not a time nut then ;) ). Well, I note the bug for the day when the daylight saving change and then I should upgrade the firmware :) It has been the first opportunity to me to watch a leap second (or so...) since those ones at the end of year ever finds me quite far from home and from any timing piece other than the clock at the square where I've traveled to for the new years eve :) Regards, Javier El 01/07/2012 02:07, Mark Sims escribió: ? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Leap second? Yay or nay?
As an astronomer I've been a supporter of the current leap second situation and have not really liked the idea of changing. However, after yesterday I'm thinking of changing my mind. I quite enjoyed having to go through and change all my clocks (including a pendulum clock - now that's a pain!), but then the news came through that Amadeus crashed worldwide. Passengers everywhere were left stranded for hours because of this. Y2K all over again - but this time something big happened. This could also have been serious. Were planes tested in-flight for this? I bet they weren't. Software writers the world over are notorious for not fully testing their code, so the leap second situation in our increasingly time-dependent world has the potential to one day take a life. Maybe it is time to swallow this bitter pill and remove the leap second. I haven't jumped ship yet - but I'm very very close. Thoughts? Jim Palfreyman ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] US 5065A standby battery cell source?
I have used Batteries America tabbed cells to make up packs for several pieces of equipment and have been well pleased. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of bownes Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2012 7:05 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] US 5065A standby battery cell source? I get my tabbed batteries from Batteries America. Decent prices and good quality. On Jul 1, 2012, at 19:41, Dan Rae dan...@verizon.net wrote: All this discussion of the excellence of these Rb units reminds me that another cell must have died in my battery pack since the slightest glitch in the power here now makes the green light go out. The last time a cell died I just took it out since it actually seems to work well enough with 20 instead of the specified 21, but another one seems to have gone high resistance. So, my question is: where might be a good place in the US to get tabbed NiMH AA cells to replace the battery in mine? I am currently using generic Chinese ones, but am not at all happy with their longevity. And this one came from eBay, quite a bit less than $500 because it looked filthy, but it took a lot of patience to find it and a bit of TLC to get it going, but it has been working superbly for about four years now. Dan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] US 5065A standby battery cell source?
On 7/1/2012 5:51 PM, J. L. Trantham wrote: I have used Batteries America tabbed cells to make up packs for several pieces of equipment and have been well pleased. Joe Thanks both, they look a lot better quality than the ones I have... Dan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Leap second? Yay or nay?
Hi Jim: Would you rather have these minor problems or have a much bigger one when they make a larger correction? That's assuming that the leap second would be replaced by the leap minute or something similar on a larger time scale so that the the time had some relationship to the Earth's rotation. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html Jim Palfreyman wrote: As an astronomer I've been a supporter of the current leap second situation and have not really liked the idea of changing. However, after yesterday I'm thinking of changing my mind. I quite enjoyed having to go through and change all my clocks (including a pendulum clock - now that's a pain!), but then the news came through that Amadeus crashed worldwide. Passengers everywhere were left stranded for hours because of this. Y2K all over again - but this time something big happened. This could also have been serious. Were planes tested in-flight for this? I bet they weren't. Software writers the world over are notorious for not fully testing their code, so the leap second situation in our increasingly time-dependent world has the potential to one day take a life. Maybe it is time to swallow this bitter pill and remove the leap second. I haven't jumped ship yet - but I'm very very close. Thoughts? Jim Palfreyman ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Leap second? Yay or nay?
On 7/1/2012 8:24 PM, Jim Palfreyman wrote: Thoughts? UTC was specifically defined/specified to closely track the other UTx timescales. Breaking that link penalizes those who use it as it was intended. If being close to solar time isn't important for some applications, and they don't want to deal with leap seconds, they shouldn't be using UTC. There are multiple non-leap timescales already available for their use, or they can create a new one. If there are legal reasons they need to use UTC, work to change the laws. Returning to GMT (or a UTx scale not linked to the TAI rate) would be a logical choice. Eliminating leap seconds from UTC breaks it. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Leap second? Yay or nay?
With a large correction then maybe people would take it more seriously like they did Y2K? On 2 July 2012 11:03, Brooke Clarke bro...@pacific.net wrote: Hi Jim: Would you rather have these minor problems or have a much bigger one when they make a larger correction? That's assuming that the leap second would be replaced by the leap minute or something similar on a larger time scale so that the the time had some relationship to the Earth's rotation. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.**end2partygovernment.com/**2012Issues.htmlhttp://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html Jim Palfreyman wrote: As an astronomer I've been a supporter of the current leap second situation and have not really liked the idea of changing. However, after yesterday I'm thinking of changing my mind. I quite enjoyed having to go through and change all my clocks (including a pendulum clock - now that's a pain!), but then the news came through that Amadeus crashed worldwide. Passengers everywhere were left stranded for hours because of this. Y2K all over again - but this time something big happened. This could also have been serious. Were planes tested in-flight for this? I bet they weren't. Software writers the world over are notorious for not fully testing their code, so the leap second situation in our increasingly time-dependent world has the potential to one day take a life. Maybe it is time to swallow this bitter pill and remove the leap second. I haven't jumped ship yet - but I'm very very close. Thoughts? Jim Palfreyman __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. __**_ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/** mailman/listinfo/time-nutshttps://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Leap second? Yay or nay?
On Mon, Jul 02, 2012 at 10:24:33AM +1000, Jim Palfreyman wrote: As an astronomer I've been a supporter of the current leap second situation and have not really liked the idea of changing. As someone who still owns a sextant and almanac, I concur. :) However, after yesterday I'm thinking of changing my mind. Understand that yesterday's situation was specific to one operating system, which accepted a patch to its kernel a few years ago that was never really tested. What happened was more of a condemnation of bad software and no testing. FWIW, I spent most of today cleaning up after it, and I still feel this way. This could have been extensively tested. It wasn't. It's not hard to simulate a leap, either via ntp, or directly via mechanisms like adjtime(). Finally, if people really don't want to deal with leaps, they are welcome to use TAI. Why have two atomic timescales that don't observe the leap, offset a fixed number of seconds from each other? This could also have been serious. Were planes tested in-flight for this? I bet they weren't. Speaking for myself, I was on Southwest 2449 during the leap, and wasn't for a moment concerned about it. I trust the flight crew to do their jobs. Software writers the world over are notorious for not fully testing their code, so the leap second situation in our increasingly time-dependent world has the potential to one day take a life. I can think of a lot of other ways bad code could kill someone ( utility control systems, heart monitors, automotive control, etc.) I don't want to see anyone hurt, but pandering to bad software just gets you more bad software. At some point quality has to matter. --msa ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Leap second? Yay or nay?
Completely agree with Brooke and Mike S. This is not the first time that software developers have dropped the ball and later complained that the problem is too difficult. In my experience, nobody assigned time or resources to the problem. What better group than this to come up with a definitive way to handle leap seconds if UTC must be used. How did I use my leap second? I never noticed it - and that's the way human scale time should be. Is there any way to do forensic investigations of software that failed? Can developers be convinced that investigation can be done without casting blame on anyone? This means keeping the media out of it. Else, we are condemned to repeat history, in the Santayanan sense. Bill Hawkins - who would like to declare independence of time, but his body won't let him. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] US 5065A standby battery cell source?
A US East Coast chain of stores called Batteries Plus can sell you cells and spot weld them in any almost any way you want. At least my local store can do that here in Virginia. -Brian, WA1ZMS -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Dan Rae Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2012 7:41 PM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: [time-nuts] US 5065A standby battery cell source? All this discussion of the excellence of these Rb units reminds me that another cell must have died in my battery pack since the slightest glitch in the power here now makes the green light go out. The last time a cell died I just took it out since it actually seems to work well enough with 20 instead of the specified 21, but another one seems to have gone high resistance. So, my question is: where might be a good place in the US to get tabbed NiMH AA cells to replace the battery in mine? I am currently using generic Chinese ones, but am not at all happy with their longevity. And this one came from eBay, quite a bit less than $500 because it looked filthy, but it took a lot of patience to find it and a bit of TLC to get it going, but it has been working superbly for about four years now. Dan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Dear John, Totally agree with your point of view. Thank you for the links. Information quite impressive and interesting. Bringing one HP5065a back from death... It reminds me about the times I restored my wristwatches to mint condition, even though they looked like what the cat brought in, at the time I found them living in oblivion. When something is worth restoring, it can certainly be painful in the process but achievable with time and patience. You have a nice week. Regards, Edgardo Molina XE1XUS On Jul 1, 2012, at 4:18 PM, John Miles wrote: Shhh, I was hoping he'd succeed in his apparent attempt to drive 5065A prices down, so I can round up a few more for myself! $78 is a great price for an LPRO-101, certainly, but you can't compare them to the HP rubidiums. The latter's specs (as well as its secs) are vastly better. Edgardo, I don't know if you've seen the relative performance that can be expected from various Rb standards, but if not, check out http://www.ke5fx.com/rb.htm and N8UR's plots at http://febo.com/pages/oscillators/rubes/ (which were taken with a 5065A as the reference.) This is why it's worth the effort to bring an HP 5065A back from the dead, even if the cost is higher than an LPRO or PRS10. The real problem with the 5065A is that it represents the end of the line for most noncommercial users. There are no further upgrade possibilities for taus out to several hours -- not even the best commercial cesium standards -- until you get into masers. -- john, KE5FX www.miles.io Chris, The HP 5065A is one of the best Rb ever made. /tvb (iPhone4) On Jul 1, 2012, at 21:12, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Edgardo Molina xe1...@amsat.org wrote: Dear Chris, One of my needs: A dependable Rb source. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] HP-5065a advise and purchase decision
Dear Chris, Thanks for the advise. It is always nice to have different opinions and points of view. I have heard about the dependability of Efratom products while doing my research homework. An Rb oscillator like that surely could be a good bet considering your vision of the plural concept of oscillator. I agree. As in many of my other scientific/tecnical projects, I usually do not feel that all of my bases are covered with only one brand or example of any of the items that I so much enjoy as hobbies. I will seriously consider your kind advise and look forward meeting you whenever visiting Rancho Palos Verdes, as I usually do, in the future. Kind regards, Edgardo Molina XE1XUS On Jul 1, 2012, at 2:12 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Edgardo Molina xe1...@amsat.org wrote: Dear Chris, One of my needs: A dependable Rb source. HP appeals to me as most of my electronics lab equipment comes from that house. I have seen numerous other Rb sources here and there but would like to afford an HP unit. I know I can go to the party driving either a 60's VW beattle or driving a 60's Ford Mustang. Both of them can get me there. Still personally, I rather drive the V8 beast. The robustness, mechanics, physics package characteristics and form factor, homogeneous with my HP quartz frequency standards and frequency counters is what catches my eye when looking at that model. Let's say 50% looks and desire and 50% for what it is. It will be used in my time and frequency lab. Hobby use, a learning tool, an object of desire... OK that is a reasonable use, you just want one.But the Rb units on eBay are much more resent manufacture, better secs and well under $100. But no HP name plate and you must apply the DC power. They score near zero in looks as they are just the bare oscillator. Look at this eBay number: 300719752578 It is a very good unit from a seller many people know. The specs are very good. I bought one like this back when the price was $39 shipped. 300606871861 Mine is preforming very well. It provides a reference for a a few HP Universal Counters. But really if you are setting up a lab at home the first thing you should buy is the Thunderbolt and a good antenna. You will need one to calibrate your Rubidium oscillators. (yes oscillators with a pleural s. how else to cross check them if you have only one?) Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Leap second? Yay or nay?
I think a small poke at the system, like inserting a leap second, would save lives. If a system has degraded to a house of cards, the sooner someone pokes it the better. It may also point to those responsible who are not handling their responsibilty of providing bullet proof code. If you can not make a system reliable enough to insert a leap second it probably cannot handle any other unexpected insult, and that may have far worse consequences. Just my 2p worth, Neville Michie ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Leap second? Yay or nay?
In message 4ff0f373.1020...@pacific.net, Brooke Clarke writes: Would you rather have these minor problems or have a much bigger one when they make a larger correction? But isn't that exactly why it is a problem ? News coverage of leapseconds are mostly along the lines of What can you do with an extra second ? as filler material on page 7 Whereas coverage of DST changes is REMEMBER TO SET YOUR CLOCKS! on the frontpage. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Leap second? Yay or nay?
In message 20120702025355.ga22...@puck.nether.net, Majdi S. Abbas writes: On Mon, Jul 02, 2012 at 10:24:33AM +1000, Jim Palfreyman wrote: Understand that yesterday's situation was specific to one operating system, which accepted a patch to its kernel a few years ago that was never really tested. [...] I don't want to see anyone hurt, but pandering to bad software just gets you more bad software. At some point quality has to matter. Testing software for correct handling of leap-seconds is a major undertaking which very few people have the kit and skill to do. You can get better quality either by paying a lot more money for software or by removing or reducing the impact of this gottcha feature from the programs environment. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
