Re: [time-nuts] Lead acid battery noise levels
In message 0ef755ef-06b6-4543-b0a5-24517d471...@yahoo.ca, Mark Spencer writes : Hello, I've just reviewed the thread from earlier this year regarding low noise power supplies and some related information about the noise levels of certain batteries.Has anyone ever come across any data pertaining to the noise levels of common gelled lead acid storage batteries ? I did some research too, including asking a bloke who does lead-acid for nuclear reactors for a living. If you want your batteries to last, the elctrolyte has to move, otherwise you get stratification with higher density at the bottom, lower density at the top, and the plates over- and under-charged at the same time. The noise you get is pretty LF, but it can be quite a few mV and it is asymmetric, in that positive slopes are generally steeper than negative slopes. Gelled and glass-mat batteries have higher noise-amplitude but lower frequency than liquid lead-acid batteries, because the mechanical resistance to electrolyte movement is much higher, so it tends to happen in burps whereas a liquid lead-acid allows the electrolyte to flow (almost) freely. So the recommended configuraiton for low-noise is a liquid lead-acid (OPzS) which is float-charged in the high end of the voltage range recommended by the manufacturer. This gives most electrolysis and therefore most electrolyte movement and need for water replenishment. It also means gaseous hydrogen, which requires ventilation. I havn't done any experiments to verify this. I did find some comments on an audiophile forum that indicated that gel cell batteries are not known for low noise levels (: Don't even think about advice from audiohomoeøpathicists, the 99.9% which isn't downright bullshit is incorrect. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Very stable synthesizer, alternative to PTS(Programmed Test Sources) x10 or 040?
Thanks a lot for the input. I have been looking at the Fluke 6160b, but I thought that there might be something as good out there that is not 40years old! I want to use the synthesizer as a flexible offset source for beat frequency measurements. So the frequency range is 5 to 30MHz approx. I read Rubiola et al. Phase noise and amplitude noise in DDS yesterday and thinks that it might be worth a try to test the AD9854 or AD9912 to see if it is good enough. If I understand the paper right they get really good results. Is there any one with experience? Thanks Anders ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if Rb lamp broken?
On 07/09/2013 06:07 AM, Hui Zhang wrote: Dear Group: I have four compact Rb Stanard, but I am worried about what if my Rb lamp broken in accident someday? How dangerous of this situration? Is Rb87 came out from Rb lamp will be a disaster? You know I haven't any beta rays detect instrument. Considering that you have 48,8 milliard years in half-time, you are pretty safe. The problem is rather that it reacts to water and becomes a strong base, so you want to keep it dry and well protected. Keeping it in a clock chassi is good enough. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if Rb lamp broken?
On Tue, 09 Jul 2013 11:24:27 +0200 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: On 07/09/2013 06:07 AM, Hui Zhang wrote: Dear Group: I have four compact Rb Stanard, but I am worried about what if my Rb lamp broken in accident someday? How dangerous of this situration? Is Rb87 came out from Rb lamp will be a disaster? You know I haven't any beta rays detect instrument. Considering that you have 48,8 milliard years in half-time, you are pretty safe. The problem is rather that it reacts to water and becomes a strong base, so you want to keep it dry and well protected. Keeping it in a clock chassi is good enough. IIRC Rb is hygroscopic, ie keeping dry wont help, it will react with the air humidity as well. But then, you have only a couple mg of Rb in the cell. And the whole thing is enclosed. So you wont get much exposure anyways. As for toxidity, AFAIK Rb by itself is not toxic. Rb solution is, as Magnus said, a strong base, but you will get very little of it and and i am not aware of any toxidity beside being a stron base. So don't let it get into your eyes and you will be fine :-) For comparison: Natrium hydroxide is sold in tablet form as un-clogging agent. It is, for it being a strong base, rated with a high toxidity/danger class, (about the same as hydrochloric acid) but is not toxic in it self. Handling it is safe, unless you throw a lot of it into water. In dry form, the most danger it poses is making soap out of the fat in your skin :-) Attila Kinali -- The trouble with you, Shev, is you don't say anything until you've saved up a whole truckload of damned heavy brick arguments and then you dump them all out and never look at the bleeding body mangled beneath the heap -- Tirin, The Dispossessed, U. Le Guin ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Very stable synthesizer, alternative to PTS(Programmed Test Sources) x10 or 040?
Take a look at AD 9913, just got boards may have results in a month. Bert Kehren Sent from Samsung tabletAnders Time anderst...@gmail.com wrote:Thanks a lot for the input. I have been looking at the Fluke 6160b, but I thought that there might be something as good out there that is not 40years old! I want to use the synthesizer as a flexible offset source for beat frequency measurements. So the frequency range is 5 to 30MHz approx. I read Rubiola et al. Phase noise and amplitude noise in DDS yesterday and thinks that it might be worth a try to test the AD9854 or AD9912 to see if it is good enough. If I understand the paper right they get really good results. Is there any one with experience? Thanks Anders ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if Rb lamp broken?
In those tough times, since the General Electric reactors melted down at Fukushima, and still spewing lots of radiation after more than two years, a radioactive particle detector is a must have - at least for gamma radiation. As for beta particles, you can try visual detection. If you don't see the blue glow in dielectrics (aka Cherenkov radiation) there's still some hope... On 7/9/2013 7:07 AM, Hui Zhang wrote: Dear Group: I have four compact Rb Stanard, but I am worried about what if my Rb lamp broken in accident someday? How dangerous of this situration? Is Rb87 came out from Rb lamp will be a disaster? You know I haven't any beta rays detect instrument. Hui ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if Rb lamp broken?
Hi, Toxicity is not the problem. Radioactivity was my biggest concern, when I ordered my first Rb-clock.The manufacturer told me, there's no radioactivity, that you have to fear. When the package came I used a Geiger tube to calm myself down - there was no measurable activity at all. If the clock doesn't work anymore, be careful when opening it, the bulb could be broken (though impropable). I don't know how the Rubidium will react in such a case, but it can react with the air and start to burn (but remember, it's a very small amount) and you could get some mg of a strong base, which is corrosive/caustic. To come to the point: You won't be able to wreak havoc with a Rb-lamp... Volker Am 09.07.2013 11:40, schrieb Attila Kinali: On Tue, 09 Jul 2013 11:24:27 +0200 Magnus Danielsonmag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: On 07/09/2013 06:07 AM, Hui Zhang wrote: Dear Group: I have four compact Rb Stanard, but I am worried about what if my Rb lamp broken in accident someday? How dangerous of this situration? Is Rb87 came out from Rb lamp will be a disaster? You know I haven't any beta rays detect instrument. Considering that you have 48,8 milliard years in half-time, you are pretty safe. The problem is rather that it reacts to water and becomes a strong base, so you want to keep it dry and well protected. Keeping it in a clock chassi is good enough. IIRC Rb is hygroscopic, ie keeping dry wont help, it will react with the air humidity as well. But then, you have only a couple mg of Rb in the cell. And the whole thing is enclosed. So you wont get much exposure anyways. As for toxidity, AFAIK Rb by itself is not toxic. Rb solution is, as Magnus said, a strong base, but you will get very little of it and and i am not aware of any toxidity beside being a stron base. So don't let it get into your eyes and you will be fine :-) For comparison: Natrium hydroxide is sold in tablet form as un-clogging agent. It is, for it being a strong base, rated with a high toxidity/danger class, (about the same as hydrochloric acid) but is not toxic in it self. Handling it is safe, unless you throw a lot of it into water. In dry form, the most danger it poses is making soap out of the fat in your skin :-) Attila Kinali ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if Rb lamp broken?
Hi Hui, Most bulbs use a mix of Rb87 and Rb85 with an activity of around 1500 Bq/gram with less than half a millgram in a typical bulb, that's less than a Bq per bulb (about 20 picocuries). You will get more ardiation from using low sodium salt (potassium chloride) on your food. Potasium is essential for life and Rb is chemically similar. In short don't worry. Robert G8RPI (also a geiger nut and collector of radioactive material) From: Hui Zhang ba...@163.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, 9 July 2013, 5:07 Subject: [time-nuts] How dangerous if Rb lamp broken? Dear Group: I have four compact Rb Stanard, but I am worried about what if my Rb lamp broken in accident someday? How dangerous of this situration? Is Rb87 came out from Rb lamp will be a disaster? You know I haven't any beta rays detect instrument. Hui ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if Rb lamp broken?
Hi Why are so many people radiophobic? As in ionising radiation. There are far more hazardous things in our hobby, electrocution and falling from a height be two of the big killers. I defy anyone to come up with a confirmed case of death caused by radiation as part of our hobby. Lead, solder flux, mercury, PCB's (the chemical in some caps and transformers) and cleaning solvents are all more harmful to our health. The use of radioisotopes directly or indirectly saves lives every day. Coal fired powerstations release more long life radioactive isotopes ro the environment than a nuclear one would ever be permitted to, plus a load of heavy metals. Rant off, Robert G8RPI. From: Volker Esper ail...@t-online.de To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, 9 July 2013, 11:33 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if Rb lamp broken? Hi, Toxicity is not the problem. Radioactivity was my biggest concern, when I ordered my first Rb-clock.The manufacturer told me, there's no radioactivity, that you have to fear. When the package came I used a Geiger tube to calm myself down - there was no measurable activity at all. If the clock doesn't work anymore, be careful when opening it, the bulb could be broken (though impropable). I don't know how the Rubidium will react in such a case, but it can react with the air and start to burn (but remember, it's a very small amount) and you could get some mg of a strong base, which is corrosive/caustic. To come to the point: You won't be able to wreak havoc with a Rb-lamp... Volker Am 09.07.2013 11:40, schrieb Attila Kinali: On Tue, 09 Jul 2013 11:24:27 +0200 Magnus Danielsonmag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: On 07/09/2013 06:07 AM, Hui Zhang wrote: Dear Group: I have four compact Rb Stanard, but I am worried about what if my Rb lamp broken in accident someday? How dangerous of this situration? Is Rb87 came out from Rb lamp will be a disaster? You know I haven't any beta rays detect instrument. Considering that you have 48,8 milliard years in half-time, you are pretty safe. The problem is rather that it reacts to water and becomes a strong base, so you want to keep it dry and well protected. Keeping it in a clock chassi is good enough. IIRC Rb is hygroscopic, ie keeping dry wont help, it will react with the air humidity as well. But then, you have only a couple mg of Rb in the cell. And the whole thing is enclosed. So you wont get much exposure anyways. As for toxidity, AFAIK Rb by itself is not toxic. Rb solution is, as Magnus said, a strong base, but you will get very little of it and and i am not aware of any toxidity beside being a stron base. So don't let it get into your eyes and you will be fine :-) For comparison: Natrium hydroxide is sold in tablet form as un-clogging agent. It is, for it being a strong base, rated with a high toxidity/danger class, (about the same as hydrochloric acid) but is not toxic in it self. Handling it is safe, unless you throw a lot of it into water. In dry form, the most danger it poses is making soap out of the fat in your skin :-) Attila Kinali ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if Rb lamp broken?
On Tue, 09 Jul 2013 12:33:11 +0200 Volker Esper ail...@t-online.de wrote: Toxicity is not the problem. Radioactivity was my biggest concern, when I ordered my first Rb-clock.The manufacturer told me, there's no radioactivity, that you have to fear. When the package came I used a Geiger tube to calm myself down - there was no measurable activity at all. If radioactivity is a concern, you should stop eating bananas and do not go down to your cellar. And for gods sake, stop flying! ;-) The amount of Rb in a vapor cell is very little. You take in more radiocative material by eating a banana. If the clock doesn't work anymore, be careful when opening it, the bulb could be broken (though impropable). I don't know how the Rubidium will react in such a case, but it can react with the air and start to burn (but remember, it's a very small amount) and you could get some mg of a strong base, which is corrosive/caustic. For the Rb to cause serious damage by burning, you need to drop a couple of gramms into water. Anything else will not cause a fast enough reaction. Beside, you have only a couple of milligram, not enough to cause anythingm major. Also, if the cell is broken it is most likely that the Rb is already highly oxidized by the time you open it (and thus mostly harmless, beside it's basic behaviour). To come to the point: You won't be able to wreak havoc with a Rb-lamp... Yes. Broken glass is sharp and will cause serious cuts if not handled carefully. Attila Kinali -- The trouble with you, Shev, is you don't say anything until you've saved up a whole truckload of damned heavy brick arguments and then you dump them all out and never look at the bleeding body mangled beneath the heap -- Tirin, The Dispossessed, U. Le Guin ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lead acid battery noise levels
On 9 July 2013 04:52, Mark Spencer mspencer12...@yahoo.ca wrote: Hello, I've just reviewed the thread from earlier this year regarding low noise power supplies and some related information about the noise levels of certain batteries.Has anyone ever come across any data pertaining to the noise levels of common gelled lead acid storage batteries ? Have you come across the volt-nuts list? https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts I see a bizzare review of an HP 3457A meter on utube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfxpJCdgVwc where the guy determines the noise level of the 6.5/7.5 digit meter by measuring the voltage of what he describes as a general purpose lab power supply. Is it me, or is it a bit dumb to try to measure the noise level of a laboratory multimeter by using a general purpose lab power supply. I must admit, I thought that using a battery would have been stable at least short term, but it seems there is noise on a battery - something I was not aware of until today. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lead acid battery noise levels
David Kirkby wrote: On 9 July 2013 04:52, Mark Spencermspencer12...@yahoo.ca wrote: Hello, I've just reviewed the thread from earlier this year regarding low noise power supplies and some related information about the noise levels of certain batteries.Has anyone ever come across any data pertaining to the noise levels of common gelled lead acid storage batteries ? Have you come across the volt-nuts list? https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts I see a bizzare review of an HP 3457A meter on utube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfxpJCdgVwc where the guy determines the noise level of the 6.5/7.5 digit meter by measuring the voltage of what he describes as a general purpose lab power supply. Is it me, or is it a bit dumb to try to measure the noise level of a laboratory multimeter by using a general purpose lab power supply. I must admit, I thought that using a battery would have been stable at least short term, but it seems there is noise on a battery - something I was not aware of until today. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. A battery is noisest when current is flowing in the battery. With no current flow (or electrolyte disturbance) the noise is very low. NIST has measured the noise of unloaded NiCd cells for example and it is extremely low. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if Rb lamp broken?
Le 9 juil. 2013 à 13:49, Robert Atkinson a écrit : Hi Why are so many people radiophobic? As in ionising radiation. There are far more hazardous things in our hobby, electrocution and falling from a height be two of the big killers. I defy anyone to come up with a confirmed case of death caused by radiation as part of our hobby. Lead, solder flux, mercury, PCB's (the chemical in some caps and transformers) and cleaning solvents are all more harmful to our health. The use of radioisotopes directly or indirectly saves lives every day. Coal fired powerstations release more long life radioactive isotopes ro the environment than a nuclear one would ever be permitted to, plus a load of heavy metals. How true. I can't understand it either. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if Rb lamp broken?
Yes but we like coal because if we ignore the dangers and pollution it's co cheeap! I used to play with the old CRT color TVs and would boost the HV up enough to be able to fog film with the X-rays (not well enough to make images though). I do agree with what you say though. On 7/9/2013 7:49 AM, Robert Atkinson wrote: Hi Why are so many people radiophobic? As in ionising radiation. There are far more hazardous things in our hobby, electrocution and falling from a height be two of the big killers. I defy anyone to come up with a confirmed case of death caused by radiation as part of our hobby. Lead, solder flux, mercury, PCB's (the chemical in some caps and transformers) and cleaning solvents are all more harmful to our health. The use of radioisotopes directly or indirectly saves lives every day. Coal fired powerstations release more long life radioactive isotopes ro the environment than a nuclear one would ever be permitted to, plus a load of heavy metals. Rant off, Robert G8RPI. From: Volker Esper ail...@t-online.de To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, 9 July 2013, 11:33 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if Rb lamp broken? Hi, Toxicity is not the problem. Radioactivity was my biggest concern, when I ordered my first Rb-clock.The manufacturer told me, there's no radioactivity, that you have to fear. When the package came I used a Geiger tube to calm myself down - there was no measurable activity at all. If the clock doesn't work anymore, be careful when opening it, the bulb could be broken (though impropable). I don't know how the Rubidium will react in such a case, but it can react with the air and start to burn (but remember, it's a very small amount) and you could get some mg of a strong base, which is corrosive/caustic. To come to the point: You won't be able to wreak havoc with a Rb-lamp... Volker Am 09.07.2013 11:40, schrieb Attila Kinali: On Tue, 09 Jul 2013 11:24:27 +0200 Magnus Danielsonmag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: On 07/09/2013 06:07 AM, Hui Zhang wrote: Dear Group: I have four compact Rb Stanard, but I am worried about what if my Rb lamp broken in accident someday? How dangerous of this situration? Is Rb87 came out from Rb lamp will be a disaster? You know I haven't any beta rays detect instrument. Considering that you have 48,8 milliard years in half-time, you are pretty safe. The problem is rather that it reacts to water and becomes a strong base, so you want to keep it dry and well protected. Keeping it in a clock chassi is good enough. IIRC Rb is hygroscopic, ie keeping dry wont help, it will react with the air humidity as well. But then, you have only a couple mg of Rb in the cell. And the whole thing is enclosed. So you wont get much exposure anyways. As for toxidity, AFAIK Rb by itself is not toxic. Rb solution is, as Magnus said, a strong base, but you will get very little of it and and i am not aware of any toxidity beside being a stron base. So don't let it get into your eyes and you will be fine :-) For comparison: Natrium hydroxide is sold in tablet form as un-clogging agent. It is, for it being a strong base, rated with a high toxidity/danger class, (about the same as hydrochloric acid) but is not toxic in it self. Handling it is safe, unless you throw a lot of it into water. In dry form, the most danger it poses is making soap out of the fat in your skin :-) Attila Kinali ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1432 / Virus Database: 3204/5974 - Release Date: 07/08/13 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if Rb lamp broken?
Many people are just phobic about radiation, partially becayse tgey don't understand it. Some years ago, the DoD was trying to get approval for a Phased Array early warning RADAR on Cape Cod, MA, called Pave Paws. Public hearings were held and the public kept asking 'Will the radiation contaminate the ocean? and 'How long will the radiation contaminate the environment?' Also, as a freshman a long time ago, I was a subject to measure body fat. The technique was to go into a shielded chamber (16 thick battleship aqrmor plate, from the pre-atomic age) and lie under a scintillator crystal, coupled to an MCA. The number of (K or Ca ?) decays per hour was measured and the lean body mass calculated. If you image in the thermal IR, you are seeing images formed by body emissions. Radiation is a fact of life. It is used as a boogieman by some, to suit their agendas. -John = Le 9 juil. 2013 à 13:49, Robert Atkinson a écrit : Hi Why are so many people radiophobic? As in ionising radiation. There are far more hazardous things in our hobby, electrocution and falling from a height be two of the big killers. I defy anyone to come up with a confirmed case of death caused by radiation as part of our hobby. Lead, solder flux, mercury, PCB's (the chemical in some caps and transformers) and cleaning solvents are all more harmful to our health. The use of radioisotopes directly or indirectly saves lives every day. Coal fired powerstations release more long life radioactive isotopes ro the environment than a nuclear one would ever be permitted to, plus a load of heavy metals. How true. I can't understand it either. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lead acid battery noise levels
EGG Princeton Applied Research made a very low noise preamp unit, the 113, which was pretty much the industry leader for years. It was often used with Lock-In amplifiers. The unit used NiCds, I believe for that, among other, reasons. I'd expect Ithaco and SAE have similar products. -John === David Kirkby wrote: On 9 July 2013 04:52, Mark Spencermspencer12...@yahoo.ca wrote: Hello, I've just reviewed the thread from earlier this year regarding low noise power supplies and some related information about the noise levels of certain batteries.Has anyone ever come across any data pertaining to the noise levels of common gelled lead acid storage batteries ? Have you come across the volt-nuts list? https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts I see a bizzare review of an HP 3457A meter on utube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfxpJCdgVwc where the guy determines the noise level of the 6.5/7.5 digit meter by measuring the voltage of what he describes as a general purpose lab power supply. Is it me, or is it a bit dumb to try to measure the noise level of a laboratory multimeter by using a general purpose lab power supply. I must admit, I thought that using a battery would have been stable at least short term, but it seems there is noise on a battery - something I was not aware of until today. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. A battery is noisest when current is flowing in the battery. With no current flow (or electrolyte disturbance) the noise is very low. NIST has measured the noise of unloaded NiCd cells for example and it is extremely low. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if Rb lamp broken?
Am 09.07.2013 14:16, schrieb Attila Kinali: If radioactivity is a concern, you should stop eating bananas and do not go down to your cellar. And for gods sake, stop flying! ;-) ...yes, and don't use mobiles and so on. Radioactivity is a concern, because I don't have any serious experience with it. And I guess, many of us don't. And I totally lack a sense of the amounts of radioactive radiation. I know well, what a Volt is or an Amp and I know, where I have to put my fingers and where not on my lab desk. Going down to my cellar may expose myself to some radiation, but I don't work there for hours. Sitting at my lab bench for hours, daily, is another thing, if there is a radioactive contamination of an unknown radiation dose. Now, that we know, the amount is very little or zero, we're all happy. That's all, not more, not less. I only wanted to be cautious, and I guess, Hui, too. The amount of Rb in a vapor cell is very little. You take in more radiocative material by eating a banana. For the Rb to cause serious damage by burning, you need to drop a couple of gramms into water. Anything else will not cause a fast enough reaction. Interesting. Beside, you have only a couple of milligram, not enough to cause anythingm major. Also, if the cell is broken it is most likely that the Rb is already highly oxidized by the time you open it (and thus mostly harmless, beside it's basic behaviour). Yes. Broken glass is sharp and will cause serious cuts if not handled carefully. I think so. I only wanted to be careful with my advice, since I'm not a physicist or a chemist. By the way: I don't eat bananas, but for some other reason... Volker ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if Rb lamp broken?
On 07/09/2013 11:40 AM, Attila Kinali wrote: On Tue, 09 Jul 2013 11:24:27 +0200 Magnus Danielsonmag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: On 07/09/2013 06:07 AM, Hui Zhang wrote: Dear Group: I have four compact Rb Stanard, but I am worried about what if my Rb lamp broken in accident someday? How dangerous of this situration? Is Rb87 came out from Rb lamp will be a disaster? You know I haven't any beta rays detect instrument. Considering that you have 48,8 milliard years in half-time, you are pretty safe. The problem is rather that it reacts to water and becomes a strong base, so you want to keep it dry and well protected. Keeping it in a clock chassi is good enough. IIRC Rb is hygroscopic, ie keeping dry wont help, it will react with the air humidity as well. But then, you have only a couple mg of Rb in the cell. And the whole thing is enclosed. So you wont get much exposure anyways. As for toxidity, AFAIK Rb by itself is not toxic. Rb solution is, as Magnus said, a strong base, but you will get very little of it and and i am not aware of any toxidity beside being a stron base. So don't let it get into your eyes and you will be fine :-) Thanks for the added wording, I was writing in a hurry. I know it is hygroscopic, but it at least make the process slower than if you poor water on it which is more spectacular. There are Rubidium and Caesium salts that can be consumed safely, and there is naturally those selling it for it's magic properties. For comparison: Natrium hydroxide is sold in tablet form as un-clogging agent. It is, for it being a strong base, rated with a high toxidity/danger class, (about the same as hydrochloric acid) but is not toxic in it self. Handling it is safe, unless you throw a lot of it into water. In dry form, the most danger it poses is making soap out of the fat in your skin :-) Indeed. It's a good comparison. Handle with care. If you are going to poor water on it, use A LOT. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if Rb lamp broken?
Hi Robert, On 07/09/2013 01:49 PM, Robert Atkinson wrote: Hi Why are so many people radiophobic? As in ionising radiation. There are far more hazardous things in our hobby, electrocution and falling from a height be two of the big killers. I defy anyone to come up with a confirmed case of death caused by radiation as part of our hobby. Lead, solder flux, mercury, PCB's (the chemical in some caps and transformers) and cleaning solvents are all more harmful to our health. The use of radioisotopes directly or indirectly saves lives every day. Coal fired powerstations release more long life radioactive isotopes ro the environment than a nuclear one would ever be permitted to, plus a load of heavy metals. They know it can be dangerous, but they don't understand the danger, and becomes overcautious. Kinda good in a way, and tells you more how the human basic survival instinct works. There is several things you need to learn and the safety precaustions takes a bit of knowledge about what material it is, what decay they have etc. That's a bit more complex than stay the hell away. Not everyone has the interest needed to learn how it actually works. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] The word, Radiation as a boogieman...
John, Unfortunately, there's a lot of money in fear. Being in broadcast engineering I learned as long time ago to never use the words, radiation or radiate a signal when referring to a station's signal. Instead, I refer to it as, Launch or Launched a signal. When asked about a radio station's radiation I remind them about the expression, radiate a smile. It simply means, to send out. If you really want to frighten people, use the expression, To radiate SPAM! Burt, K6OQK At 06:21 AM 7/9/2013, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote Radiation is a fact of life. It is used as a boogieman by some, to suit their agendas. -John Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The word, Radiation as a boogieman...
Burt, I agree there is money, but, far more importantly IMO, there is lots of political power. IMO, if one assessed risks objectively, biological pathogens are far, far more dangerous. In fact, I think it's the height of hypocracy when biologists protest nuclear technology. Consider which has killed and injured more people: radiation or pathogens? It's not even close. Pathogens win hands down. YMMV, -John = John, Unfortunately, there's a lot of money in fear. Being in broadcast engineering I learned as long time ago to never use the words, radiation or radiate a signal when referring to a station's signal. Instead, I refer to it as, Launch or Launched a signal. When asked about a radio station's radiation I remind them about the expression, radiate a smile. It simply means, to send out. If you really want to frighten people, use the expression, To radiate SPAM! Burt, K6OQK At 06:21 AM 7/9/2013, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote Radiation is a fact of life. It is used as a boogieman by some, to suit their agendas. -John Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The word, Radiation as a boogieman...
On 7/9/13 7:01 AM, Burt I. Weiner wrote: John, Unfortunately, there's a lot of money in fear. Being in broadcast engineering I learned as long time ago to never use the words, radiation or radiate a signal when referring to a station's signal. Instead, I refer to it as, Launch or Launched a signal. When asked about a radio station's radiation I remind them about the expression, radiate a smile. It simply means, to send out. If you really want to frighten people, use the expression, To radiate SPAM! Indeed.. It's so pervasive that when you go out to get approval for human experimentation, there's a different process if any radiation is involved: ionizing OR non-ionizing (e.g. RF/microwaves). I asked why, because I was looking at radiating a milliwatt at a few GHz. It's because of the informed consent aspect. You need to have a simple explanation of what you're doing and that will inevitably have that word in it, along with a reference to the IEEE/ANSI standard. (although I've been careful to use the word exposure and field, rather than radiation) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lead acid battery noise levels
The SRS 560 and 570, low noise voltage and current preamplifiers respectively, both use bog standard sealed lead acid batteries. Andy Bardagjy bardagjy.com On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 9:26 AM, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote: EGG Princeton Applied Research made a very low noise preamp unit, the 113, which was pretty much the industry leader for years. It was often used with Lock-In amplifiers. The unit used NiCds, I believe for that, among other, reasons. I'd expect Ithaco and SAE have similar products. -John === David Kirkby wrote: On 9 July 2013 04:52, Mark Spencermspencer12...@yahoo.ca wrote: Hello, I've just reviewed the thread from earlier this year regarding low noise power supplies and some related information about the noise levels of certain batteries.Has anyone ever come across any data pertaining to the noise levels of common gelled lead acid storage batteries ? Have you come across the volt-nuts list? https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts I see a bizzare review of an HP 3457A meter on utube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfxpJCdgVwc where the guy determines the noise level of the 6.5/7.5 digit meter by measuring the voltage of what he describes as a general purpose lab power supply. Is it me, or is it a bit dumb to try to measure the noise level of a laboratory multimeter by using a general purpose lab power supply. I must admit, I thought that using a battery would have been stable at least short term, but it seems there is noise on a battery - something I was not aware of until today. Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. A battery is noisest when current is flowing in the battery. With no current flow (or electrolyte disturbance) the noise is very low. NIST has measured the noise of unloaded NiCd cells for example and it is extremely low. Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if Rb lamp broken?
From: J. Forster Many people are just phobic about radiation, partially becayse tgey don't understand it. [] Radiation is a fact of life. It is used as a boogieman by some, to suit their agendas. -John = The key word missing is ionising, as in ionising radiation, isn't it? US spelling: ionizing radiation David -- SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements Web: http://www.satsignal.eu Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if Rb lamp broken?
Am 09.07.2013 13:49, schrieb Robert Atkinson: Why are so many people radiophobic? In my opinion, the answere isn't hard to find. Those people don't have any experience with it and don't know, which information is correct. Radiation can be dangerous, there's no doubt about it, is it? The question is: is this paticular situation dangerous. So there's no sense in mocking someone or making fun of him. We just need enough information to estimate the risk. It would be better to inform someone who's scared with precise information. Rant off, Since I'm no native speaker, I'm not sure, what exactly you are meaning - declamatory, elevated, fray, excited? Thanks Volker ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Very stable synthesizer, alternative to PTS(Programmed Test Sources) x10 or 040?
Hi Anders: The HP 8648() series signal generators were made for applications that required very clean signals, like testing pagers. http://www.prc68.com/I/HP8648.shtml Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html Anders Time wrote: Thanks a lot for the input. I have been looking at the Fluke 6160b, but I thought that there might be something as good out there that is not 40years old! I want to use the synthesizer as a flexible offset source for beat frequency measurements. So the frequency range is 5 to 30MHz approx. I read Rubiola et al. Phase noise and amplitude noise in DDS yesterday and thinks that it might be worth a try to test the AD9854 or AD9912 to see if it is good enough. If I understand the paper right they get really good results. Is there any one with experience? Thanks Anders ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Very stable synthesizer, alternative to PTS(Programmed Test Sources) x10 or 040?
The best I have test by far is the Rohde SMA100A with option B22 LPN. The Agilent E8663D is very good also. The 8664/5A/B with option 004 LPN or the IFR 2041/2 are perhaps the best at a reasonable price. Thomas Knox Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 08:53:54 -0700 From: bro...@pacific.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Very stable synthesizer, alternative to PTS(Programmed Test Sources) x10 or 040? Hi Anders: The HP 8648() series signal generators were made for applications that required very clean signals, like testing pagers. http://www.prc68.com/I/HP8648.shtml Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PRC68.com http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html Anders Time wrote: Thanks a lot for the input. I have been looking at the Fluke 6160b, but I thought that there might be something as good out there that is not 40years old! I want to use the synthesizer as a flexible offset source for beat frequency measurements. So the frequency range is 5 to 30MHz approx. I read Rubiola et al. Phase noise and amplitude noise in DDS yesterday and thinks that it might be worth a try to test the AD9854 or AD9912 to see if it is good enough. If I understand the paper right they get really good results. Is there any one with experience? Thanks Anders ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rb danger
I just finished Bernard Jaffe's history of chemistry book. The Curies spent years in a small building with tons of ore boiling, mixing, filtering, etc to get a small bit of radium. He died (with some radiation changes) by getting his head run over by a car. She died as an old lady of whatever. At the age I suspect most of us are, I suspect that something else will get us. N0UU ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Question about effect of sample interval on ADEV
Hi Hans, If you're familiar with the windows or unix command line then the tools and methods I use may be useful. Otherwise perhaps it's best to use standard GUI packages, like HyperTerminal, CoolTerm, Plotter, Stable32, TimeLab, etc. Note that TimeLab includes data capture capabilities for all the common instruments that we use so you don't need the CoolTerm step at all. That is, Timelab will directly capture data from a hp 53132 either over serial or GPIB/Prologix. So I highly recommend this approach for newbies and oldtimers alike. The 0.1 second jitter seems high. Yes, perhaps that is a problem with CoolTerm itself. Again, if you use TimeLab to acquire your data you can avoid using CoolTerm completely. If you are a programmer or windows command line person, the tool I use to collect, timestamp, and log all my raw data is comlog. It's under my www.leapsecond.com/tools/ directory. /tvb - Original Message - From: Hans Holzach h.holz...@vtxmail.ch To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 10:03 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Question about effect of sample interval on ADEV FYI: I tend to record all serial (RS232/GPIB/USB/LAN) data from counters, analyzers, receivers, environmental sensors with a precision MJD prefix. This allows both tight correlation among different instruments in the lab and also allows ADEV-like tools to estimate, and then gradually refine to high levels of precision, the actual data rate, during data collection. Yes, it adds a few extra bytes, but it can be valuable information sometimes and storage is cheaper than it was a decade ago. /tvb tom, as a newbie i'd be happy about a few hints how you do this. i use a prologix controller to read data lines from a 53132a counter. the data is then recorded by a terminal application (CoolTerm). the terminal application can add a timestamp to each line. however, even when in time arming or external arming (1pps from gpsdo) mode, the time stamp intervals vary significantly by up to maybe 0.1s, probably because the stamp is given by the terminal application and not by the counter. furthermore, ulrich's plotter program can't read CoolTerm's timestamp format, so i have to manipulate it in excel first before ulrich's plotter can process it... thank you, hans ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if Rb lamp broken?
Rb is not even mentioned in the The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) tables as a hazardous substance. Even if shipped, Rb is listed as a simple Alkali metal. Volker Esper Am 09.07.2013 13:49, schrieb Robert Atkinson: Why are so many people radiophobic? In my opinion, the answere isn't hard to find. Those people don't have any experience with it and don't know, which information is correct. Radiation can be dangerous, there's no doubt about it, is it? The question is: is this paticular situation dangerous. So there's no sense in mocking someone or making fun of him. We just need enough information to estimate the risk. It would be better to inform someone who's scared with precise information. Rant off, Since I'm no native speaker, I'm not sure, what exactly you are meaning - declamatory, elevated, fray, excited? Thanks Volker ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. De Erroribus Medicorum, R. Bacon, 13th century. If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 Skype: buffler2 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rb danger
From the New Alexandria Library (*): Curie died in 1934 at the sanatorium of Sancellemoz (Haute-Savoie), France, due to aplastic anemia brought on by her years of exposure to radiation. Best regards, --- Antonio A.S. Magalhaes/CT1TE (*) AKA Wikipedia.com Em 2013-07-09 21:11, lstosk...@cox.net escreveu: I just finished Bernard Jaffe's history of chemistry book. The Curies spent years in a small building with tons of ore boiling, mixing, filtering, etc to get a small bit of radium. He died (with some radiation changes) by getting his head run over by a car. She died as an old lady of whatever. At the age I suspect most of us are, I suspect that something else will get us. N0UU ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if Rb lamp broken?
I do agree with you, generally, on the topic of ionizing radiation and want to thank you for reminding me to check the batteries in my geiger counter! I do live with a nuclear power plant upwind from me and thus feel that maintenance of the instrument is desirable. And I do remember back in the prehysteria days when, in the middle of a mineralogy lecture, a second professor broke into the room with long tongs and removed a rock sample that had been used for identification and was known to be radioactive and quickly retreated with it. Until that moment any danger had not been considered. Not that the lesson did any good because I know that I have a rather large radioactive sample in our bedroom closet where it has peacefully resided for some twenty plus years. I would suggest that anyone who is actively looking for something to get excited about look into the packaging materials we use for our foods today! Sincerest best regards, Lee A. Mushel, K9WRU - Original Message - From: Robert Atkinson robert8...@yahoo.co.uk To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 5:49 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if Rb lamp broken? Hi Why are so many people radiophobic? As in ionising radiation. There are far more hazardous things in our hobby, electrocution and falling from a height be two of the big killers. I defy anyone to come up with a confirmed case of death caused by radiation as part of our hobby. Lead, solder flux, mercury, PCB's (the chemical in some caps and transformers) and cleaning solvents are all more harmful to our health. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lead acid battery noise levels
Thanks all for the responses so far. Just to clarify I am not charging the batteries while using them to power the OCXO. With a load of less than 150 mA and a nominal capacity of 100 AH I don't foresee any issues running the OCXO for a week or so (: I periodically charge the batteries from time to time and probably should discharge a bit more frequently anyways (they serve as a backup power source for some other time nuts gear.) Unfortunately the OCXO in question is only spec'd to handle a power source of 24 volts plus or minus 10% which rules out simply leaving the OCXO directly connected to the battery bank while the batteries are float charged. Best regards Mark Spencer ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rb danger
Marie Curie died at 66 of radiation related anemia. Not a bad age for the times, particularly considering the amount of radiations her body must have absorbed during her life. Didier lstosk...@cox.net wrote: I just finished Bernard Jaffe's history of chemistry book. The Curies spent years in a small building with tons of ore boiling, mixing, filtering, etc to get a small bit of radium. He died (with some radiation changes) by getting his head run over by a car. She died as an old lady of whatever. At the age I suspect most of us are, I suspect that something else will get us. N0UU ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Sent from my Motorola Droid Razr 4G LTE wireless tracker while I do other things. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] How dangerous if Rb lamp broken?
An Alkali metal may be simple, but they are surely hazardous. Rb can be extremely hazardous, as are the other Alkali metals, i.e. Lithium, Sodium, Potassium and Cesium (and Francium, but that is one of the rarest elements, due to its highly unstable nature, with its most stable isotope having a half life of 22 minutes). They can react violently with water, releasing hydrogen gas that may explode depending on the conditions. Some of them will ignite with exposure to air. Note that the small amount of Rb in a Rb lamp probably mitigates most of danger. John On 7/9/2013 3:02 PM, Don Latham wrote: Rb is not even mentioned in the The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) tables as a hazardous substance. Even if shipped, Rb is listed as a simple Alkali metal. Volker Esper Am 09.07.2013 13:49, schrieb Robert Atkinson: Why are so many people radiophobic? In my opinion, the answere isn't hard to find. Those people don't have any experience with it and don't know, which information is correct. Radiation can be dangerous, there's no doubt about it, is it? The question is: is this paticular situation dangerous. So there's no sense in mocking someone or making fun of him. We just need enough information to estimate the risk. It would be better to inform someone who's scared with precise information. Rant off, Since I'm no native speaker, I'm not sure, what exactly you are meaning - declamatory, elevated, fray, excited? Thanks Volker ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] How dangerous if a Rb lamp broken?
Hui and all, You have absolutely NOTHING to fear. Here is why: If in the USA it was found that it MIGHT possibly hurt something on the endangered species list [Humans might count also in some situations.] The following would happen. 1. A Transportation Security Agency [1.6 Billion bullets and counting] heavily armed and masked SWAT team would appear at Rb owners houses. They know where we are thanks to NSA wire taps and the fact that every piece of mail in the US mail system is photocopied on each side and stored. 2. The rubidiums would be seized. Next: A. The owner would be fined for having an unregistered WMD. B. The owners name would go on a WMD offenders list. Offenders would have to report to the police wherever they live and would be barred from contact of anyone below the age of 18 and could not reside within one mile of a school. 3. The administration branch of our US government would declare that: The War On Dangerous Rb’s Has Been Won and the US citizens are now safer. 4. Bonus’s will be awarded. 5. Congressional oversight committees will ask the TSA what has been done with seized rubidiums. The TSA will not tell congress who authorized the seizer and where the Rubidiums are. Any TSA leaders subpoenaed will take the 5th amendment. Congress will get really, really mad and stop their feet. Nothing more will happen. It will fade away as the administration spokesman will say: “It is old news and really doesn’t matter compared to what I tell you today”. 6. Magically, as no one knows anything, the Rubidiums will end up in a third world country without environmental law to be salvaged and the sold to mainland China. See, it really is simple. Regards, Perrier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
