Re: [time-nuts] Oscilloquartz 3210 Cesium Standard
Magnus is right if there is any tube life at all and I do mean fumes. (odd spacing all of the sudden) In HP 5060/5061 Frankenstein (A combo of the two systems) I built a new heater controller to drive the few fumes off of the 5060 tube. Amazingly the darn thing works. The i meter barely barely moves. But yet it locks. Good luck. Paul WB8TSL On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 12:47 PM, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: If you have tube-life and not other issues, it's about the same. Also works for rubidiums, as the loop aspect here is essentially the same. There can be *other* issues. For the 5060A for instance, you might need to also adjust the crystal filter of the OCXO, as that too drifts out of range, so you get no signal out. What I write is not a fix-it-all but rather addresses that one issue. Cheers, Magnus On 08/28/2014 06:35 PM, Bob Bownes wrote: Is there a similar 'bring it back to life' procedure for the 5061A? On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 12:32 PM, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: Chris, Do you have a GPS clock? First turn the operational mode setting from off to second step (ocxo + ion pump) and let it stay there for a day or so. Then, as the oven have stabilized, switch it over to third step, the open loop mode, and tune the OCXO up against a GPS reference so that it is very near 5 MHz. You use the calibration whole on the front of the clock for that. Then, you turn the operation mode switch to the fourth and last step, the closed loop step, and see if it locks up. Let it just sit there and lock up, as it takes some time. It's quite common that OCXOs have drifted outside the capture range of the analogue loop, so loosing lock and not being able to attain it again is a typical response. Cheers, Magnus On 08/28/2014 04:33 PM, Chris wrote: On 08/28/14 05:03, Javier Herrero wrote: Hello, Here is the manual I've. I have also some other documentations, and some Oscilloquartz software for the OSA-5585, but I don't know if they are very useful. Regards, Javier Hi Javier, Thanks for that and for the other replies. The 3210 looks like quite an early design, with no sign of microprocessors at all. There's a 8 slot card cage with a load of discrete analog circuitry, 741 op amps etc and a couple of boards full of 14 / 16 pin ssi cmos / ttl devices, which I guess would be the synthesiser logic and perhaps a state machine style startup sequencer. Apart from that, the rest is power supply related and what looks like an alarm board with optoisolator discete outputs to a 25 way D connector. The step recovery diode (?) multiplier into the microwave cavity is a really neat gold plated assembly with what looks like a 50r termination (setup tap for spectrum analyser ?) and an adjustment trimmer, but am not touching that or the many trimpots on the boards or any adjustments until I have more info. The tube is from FTS, part number / model 7101. It seems strange that the 2nd harmonic, meter #9, is zero, since even with a tube approaching eol, one would expect at least some indication, which is why I think there may be an electronic fault. Perhaps the hv power supply module feeding the electron multiplier. Will try to measure that, but the area around the tube is really heavily rivetted and screwed down in all directions. Looks like a lot of the left hand side of the case will need to be disassembled just to get at the tube connections. It also had the battery backup option, with 4 sets of 3 x cyclon type cells, but with a date code of 1984, are seriously dead and have been removed. This time nuts things seems to be a growing interest and wonder if there is a cure ? :-). Recently bought a 1970's era Tracor 304D rubidium standard. Again, no lock, but a very well engineered and screwed together piece of kit and should be fixable. Collection now includes the Z3816, from Ebay US around 7 years ago, a Z3815 currently being repackaged, an HP103 with open circuit oven heater elements and the 3210... Regards, Chris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Oscilloquartz 3210 Cesium Standard
It seems that later, they decided to shameless use the FTS/Datum/Symmetricom FTS-5045 module http://www.gigatest.net/datum/5045txt2.pdf The OSA-5585 I've has one inside, labeled Symmetricom everywere, and the Oscilloquartz contribution is a subrack containing the DC-input and AC-input power supplies, a controller that manages the FTS-5045 through its serial port, and some clock synthesis and distribution cards to provide PPS, 10MHz and 2.048MHz, with a spectral quality a lot worse than the output from the FTS-5045. I find the Oscilloquartz part of the equipment not very good nor very usefult to my purposes, to a point I'm thinking on to remove it completely an control/monitor directly the FTS-5045 with whatever thing with a serial port and a display (my Blackfin module, a Beaglebone o whatever similar) Regards, Javier On 29/08/2014 1:23, Magnus Danielson wrote: FTS had a patent on microcontroller steered cesium, which could naturally have limited the spreading time of that technology. Oscilloquartz at the time where more focused on the telecommunication market and meeting the ITU-T G.811 PRC quality requirement, keeping within +/. 1E-11 in frequency, and that is achievable with the analog design, so no rush changing it. FTS and HP where more into time-keeping, so therefore improving the design made more market sense for them. Anyway, that's about how I have perceived the market at the time. Cheers, Magnus On 08/28/2014 11:47 PM, Chris wrote: On 08/28/14 19:53, Javier Herrero wrote: Hello, Then it is a quite different beast to the EUDICS 3120, that they also call OSA-3120... I note now that yours is a 3210, not 3120 :) Regards, Javier The 3210 looks like a much earlier design, prior to the inclusion of microprocessor control. Date codes look mid eighties, by which time companies like FTS did have microprocessor control. Maybe their later design products ran in parallel because of gov or esa contracts. In theory, the more straightforward hardware design should make it easier to keep running, tube life permitting, assuming the info can be found. Thanks for sending it anyway - it all adds to the sum of knowledge... Regards, Chris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna in snowy environment (was: LEA-6T, Software.)
Dan, The classic Aeroantenna SPIKE snow cone. http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/ANTCAL/LoadImage?name=AERAT1675_120%2BSPKE.t.jpg The old Ashtech snow cone http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/ANTCAL/LoadImage?name=ASH700936A_M%2BNONE.t.jpg Both of the above will keep birds looking for another place to rest. http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/ANTCAL/LoadImage?name=ASH701945C_M%2BSCIS.s.jpg http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/ANTCAL/LoadImage?name=TPSCR.G5%2BTPSH.gif http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/ANTCAL/LoadImage?name=TPSPN.A5%2BSCIT.ave These spherical cones will impact the signals less, but they do give birds a rest/watch-place. See the middle url, which shows the drawing, and where the antenna phase center is put in the center of the (half)-sphere. The swedish COORS network - called SWEPOS - are using at least two versions of snow cones made from clear acrylic. http://swepos.lmv.lm.se/stationer/0opp.htm http://swepos.lmv.lm.se/stationer/0bor.htm But I doubt very much that a usual timing receiver will notice the difference. -- Björn Björn, Can you provide links to some examples? A picture or two would be great! Attila, Almost all the snow we get accumulates. However it does settle, even then by mid February it's not unusual to see 4 or 5 feet on the ground... However, that raises a good questions, in terms of cones and shedding snow. I wonder how a straight slender vertical pipe with capped end would work. Say 6 feet long. Let the snow build on the top. You might loose a few degrees of sky view above it, but how detrimental would that be? Lots to think about before winter! :) Dan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna in snowy environment (was: LEA-6T, Software.)
You can get a good view of typical high-end GPS antennas with an image search like: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=ischq=cors+gps+antenna For examples of antenna and winter conditions, try these: https://www.google.com/search?tbm=ischq=gps+antenna+snow https://www.google.com/search?tbm=ischq=gps+antenna+snow+ice+cold Scrolling through the images is quite educational. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna in snowy environment (was: LEA-6T Software.)
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 09:15:18 -0400, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: Message: 5 Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 15:04:36 +0200 From: Attila Kinali att...@kinali.ch To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] GPS antenna in snowy environment (was: LEA-6T Software.) Message-ID: 20140828150436.2cbdd2a08a5d709984912...@kinali.ch Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 10:48:51 -0400 Dan Kemppainen d...@irtelemetrics.com wrote: Also, I have a low cost antenna coming. It's one of the Synergy systems puck type amplified antennas. I remember some time back a bit of chatter about improving GPS antennas for timing, by providing some sort of guard ring or choke to prevent low angle reception. Are there any good links anyone could provide on what may be worth building or playing with. Keep in mind, I live in snow country (~300 inches/year) so a something that gathers a lot of snow could be undesirable! :) How much snow you get is mostly irrelevant. It's more important how much accumulates ;-) A cone hat over your antenna should solve quite a bit of the issue. The problem is, that you need quite a steep cone or you need to heat it constantly above 0°C, as snow tends to stick to everything, even smooth walls. Maybe also worth a try would be to grease the cone. But i've only heard of that and never seen it in action. So i cannot tell whether that helps in any way. I had to study this issue once. The question was if we needed to provide antenna heaters in the far North. Like Minnesota and Alaska. Turns out that snow and ice are almost transparent to 1.5 GHz, while a fat seagull perching on the antenna was a problem, so we did the tall cone and let it go at that. The only exception to the transparency is salty sea ice, which can accumulate on shipboard equipment. Joe Gwinn ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Time-Nuts Digests displays strange...
Starting with time-nuts Digest, Vol 121, Issue 70, all of the posts in a digest are running together with no breaks between individual posts, just one long paragraph. Looking at any digests prior to that time, they still display normally. I remember a week or so ago reading that a change in server/s was in the process of taking place. Could my display issue be related to this? I'm using Eudora 7.1 as my e-mail client on a Windows7 32 bit computer and prior to the date mentioned the digests had displayed normally on this computer system. Burt, K6OQK Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Time-Nuts Digests displays strange...
Hi, On Fri, 29 Aug 2014 08:25:06 -0700 Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net wrote: Starting with time-nuts Digest, Vol 121, Issue 70, all of the posts in a digest are running together with no breaks between individual posts, just one long paragraph. Looking at any digests prior to that time, they still display normally. A general plea from my side here: If there is no special reason for you to use Digest mode, please switch it off. Digest mode breaks one very important feature that enables handling mailinglists with a huge number of discussions: Threading Threading is based on the ID that each mail carries. If you reply to a mail, your reply will have a (hidden) field that says it's a reply to mail with ID x. If you use digest mode, this does not work, because there are no individual mail IDs anymore. And at times, figuring out to which mail someone replied can be rather difficult, so having the ID helps enormously to gain the context of the discussion. Thanks everyone. Attila Kinali -- I pity people who can't find laughter or at least some bit of amusement in the little doings of the day. I believe I could find something ridiculous even in the saddest moment, if necessary. It has nothing to do with being superficial. It's a matter of joy in life. -- Sophie Scholl ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna in snowy environment (was:, LEA-6T, Software.)
Björn and Tom, Thanks for the links. It helps visualize things a lot! Our snow was unusually weird last year. It stuck on everything, any stick larger than a pencil had at least basket ball sized hunks of snow on it. That's probably a worst case scenario, tho. Joe, OK on the study of snow. It's good to know that it doesn't attenuate the GPS a lot. That's good information to have in the back of my head! We're just east of Minnesota (Upper Michigan). The air coming over the big lake warms up, picks up water and dumps it on us all winter long. Because of the lake effect we're lots warmer than Minnesota, but a lot whiter too! :) The next question that comes to mind, is how much cable is too much cable from the antenna to GPS? Granted every environment is different, so lets assume you add 150 ft of cable to gain 30% to 40% more sky view to the south, is the trade off worth while? Pick a coax, say something like RG-6 (mismatch and all) or something like LMR-400. Is there a practical limit? Does temperature changing the length of the cable make any noticeable difference for a Timing GPS? Dang it! I'm getting bit this time-nuts bug now! Dan On 8/29/2014 10:34 AM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: I had to study this issue once. The question was if we needed to provide antenna heaters in the far North. Like Minnesota and Alaska. Turns out that snow and ice are almost transparent to 1.5 GHz, while a fat seagull perching on the antenna was a problem, so we did the tall cone and let it go at that. The only exception to the transparency is salty sea ice, which can accumulate on shipboard equipment. Joe Gwinn ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Time-Nuts Digests displays strange...
At 11:24 AM 8/29/2014, Charles Steinmetz wrote: Burt wrote: Starting with time-nuts Digest, Vol 121, Issue 70, all of the posts in a digest are running together with no breaks between individual posts, just one long paragraph. It's not just digests, I have the same problem since the list s/w change and I receive individual e-mails. One thing we have in common is Eudora 7.1 running under 32-bit Windoze. I mentioned it to John, but so far we Eudora v7.1 here too, and I also see weird formatting problems from time to time with the non-digest mail. Everything I've received from time-nuts today has looked fine, so it's intermittent. haven't managed to come up with a solution. At this point, I think it's safe to say that the new s/w does something different relating to carriage returns and line feeds that makes Eudora unhappy, but I have no idea what. I wonder if the Mailman support folks have dealt with this. I was going to play with the postfix sendmail_fix_line_endings setting on my mail server to see if it would make a difference (by fixing incoming mail), but that was added in v2.9 and I'm on an older version. I wonder what version of postfix febo.com is running? -- newell N5TNL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Time-Nuts Digests displays strange...
Burt wrote: Starting with time-nuts Digest, Vol 121, Issue 70, all of the posts in a digest are running together with no breaks between individual posts, just one long paragraph. It's not just digests, I have the same problem since the list s/w change and I receive individual e-mails. One thing we have in common is Eudora 7.1 running under 32-bit Windoze. I mentioned it to John, but so far we haven't managed to come up with a solution. At this point, I think it's safe to say that the new s/w does something different relating to carriage returns and line feeds that makes Eudora unhappy, but I have no idea what. I wonder if the Mailman support folks have dealt with this. Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna in snowy environment (was:, LEA-6T, Software.)
Hi Most GPS antennas have a preamp in them. All of the common Time Nut antennas have one. Gain varies from the mid twenties to over 40db between models. You really do not want much more gain than you need, so more is not generally better. Satellite TV coax is the material of choice for GPS antennas. It’s cheap and low loss. If you need to run 150’, that’s quite a castle you live in. I typically find that adding another 50’ gets me just about anywhere I need to go. I might have ten or twenty feet of coax already involved in getting to the nearest window. That still nets out well below 100’. Bob On Aug 29, 2014, at 11:55 AM, Dan Kemppainen d...@irtelemetrics.com wrote: Björn and Tom, Thanks for the links. It helps visualize things a lot! Our snow was unusually weird last year. It stuck on everything, any stick larger than a pencil had at least basket ball sized hunks of snow on it. That's probably a worst case scenario, tho. Joe, OK on the study of snow. It's good to know that it doesn't attenuate the GPS a lot. That's good information to have in the back of my head! We're just east of Minnesota (Upper Michigan). The air coming over the big lake warms up, picks up water and dumps it on us all winter long. Because of the lake effect we're lots warmer than Minnesota, but a lot whiter too! :) The next question that comes to mind, is how much cable is too much cable from the antenna to GPS? Granted every environment is different, so lets assume you add 150 ft of cable to gain 30% to 40% more sky view to the south, is the trade off worth while? Pick a coax, say something like RG-6 (mismatch and all) or something like LMR-400. Is there a practical limit? Does temperature changing the length of the cable make any noticeable difference for a Timing GPS? Dang it! I'm getting bit this time-nuts bug now! Dan On 8/29/2014 10:34 AM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: I had to study this issue once. The question was if we needed to provide antenna heaters in the far North. Like Minnesota and Alaska. Turns out that snow and ice are almost transparent to 1.5 GHz, while a fat seagull perching on the antenna was a problem, so we did the tall cone and let it go at that. The only exception to the transparency is salty sea ice, which can accumulate on shipboard equipment. Joe Gwinn ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna in snowy environment
Hi Typo, FLX should be FXL helix. Sorry about that. Bob On Aug 29, 2014, at 2:36 PM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote: Hi Well if you want to run 600’ you either will need some fancy coax or a couple inline amps. LMR400 is roughly 5 db per 100’ when new. At 300’ that’s 15 db plus connectors (maybe another db) brand new. Figure that it will degrade another 3 or 4 db before it dies. Net is about a 20 db loss. That’s certainly more than a 26 db antenna preamp will handle and still deliver a 15 db net gain. You could go to FLX-1480 and drop the attenuation to the point that a 600’ run would not matter. It’s debatable if you can save any money on a smaller diameter / custom order helix even on a 600’ order. You local cable TV outfit might have a half mile spare spool sitting around gathering dust …. Bob On Aug 29, 2014, at 2:00 PM, Dan Kemppainen d...@irtelemetrics.com wrote: Hi Bob, House is tucked in against a tree line to the south of my field. Lab/shop is on the north side of the house. I need to go north and east into the yard/field to get a good view of the sky east-south-west. (In the shop, the southern half of the view is blocked by trees, and I get no birds just south of straight up...) I can run a coax across the yard (towards alternate GPS antenna location show in image, north is up in image). I can run right out the shop wall as far north and east as practical. At 150 feet or more, I get most of the sky. At 600 Feet, I get pretty much get everything above ~10 degrees elevation for 360 degrees around. And I'm further away from any noise sources in the house also. There is lots of room, 660Ft by 1200Ft field. Right on top of the hill). I have lots of sky without anything else around (if I run cable). Is there a practical reason not to take advantage of it? This is as much a mental exercise, as a practical problem, so any input is most welcome! :) See image. Dan On 8/29/2014 1:28 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Most GPS antennas have a preamp in them. All of the common Time Nut antennas have one. Gain varies from the mid twenties to over 40db between models. You really do not want much more gain than you need, so more is not generally better. Satellite TV coax is the material of choice for GPS antennas. It’s cheap and low loss. If you need to run 150’, that’s quite a castle you live in. I typically find that adding another 50’ gets me just about anywhere I need to go. I might have ten or twenty feet of coax already involved in getting to the nearest window. That still nets out well below 100’. Bob On Aug 29, 2014, at 11:55 AM, Dan Kemppainen d...@irtelemetrics.com wrote: Björn and Tom, Thanks for the links. It helps visualize things a lot! Our snow was unusually weird last year. It stuck on everything, any stick larger than a pencil had at least basket ball sized hunks of snow on it. That's probably a worst case scenario, tho. Joe, OK on the study of snow. It's good to know that it doesn't attenuate the GPS a lot. That's good information to have in the back of my head! We're just east of Minnesota (Upper Michigan). The air coming over the big lake warms up, picks up water and dumps it on us all winter long. Because of the lake effect we're lots warmer than Minnesota, but a lot whiter too! :) The next question that comes to mind, is how much cable is too much cable from the antenna to GPS? Granted every environment is different, so lets assume you add 150 ft of cable to gain 30% to 40% more sky view to the south, is the trade off worth while? Pick a coax, say something like RG-6 (mismatch and all) or something like LMR-400. Is there a practical limit? Does temperature changing the length of the cable make any noticeable difference for a Timing GPS? Dang it! I'm getting bit this time-nuts bug now! Dan On 8/29/2014 10:34 AM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: I had to study this issue once. The question was if we needed to provide antenna heaters in the far North. Like Minnesota and Alaska. Turns out that snow and ice are almost transparent to 1.5 GHz, while a fat seagull perching on the antenna was a problem, so we did the tall cone and let it go at that. The only exception to the transparency is salty sea ice, which can accumulate on shipboard equipment. Joe Gwinn ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. Tapiola.jpg ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Subject: Re: Oscilloquartz 3210 Cesium Standard
Message: 1 Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 01:23:35 +0200 From: Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Oscilloquartz 3210 Cesium Standard Message-ID: 53ffb9f7.7000...@rubidium.dyndns.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed FTS had a patent on microcontroller steered cesium, which could naturally have limited the spreading time of that technology. Oscilloquartz at the time where more focused on the telecommunication market and meeting the ITU-T G.811 PRC quality requirement, keeping within +/. 1E-11 in frequency, and that is achievable with the analog design, so no rush changing it. FTS and HP where more into time-keeping, so therefore improving the design made more market sense for them. Anyway, that's about how I have perceived the market at the time. Cheers, Magnus Hi Magnus, Thanks for that and also the notes about initial startup. I guess there may have been other reasons, such as contractual requirements to buy product built in the eu, say for military or the ESA. With regard to startup, more or less followed your route. In pump / osc mode until the meter indicated zero, then into open loop mode and calibrate oscillator against the lab Z3816. Leave for a couple more days, recheck oscillator and switch into closed loop mode. Yet another couple of days and still no 2nd harmonic on the meter and no lock :-). Meter indications are currently: 1-4 Psu voltages, All ok 5Cs Oven+4 divs of 10 = 8v 6Osc Ctrl +5 divs of 10 = 10v 7Integrator Initially +offscale, loop open, then falls back to zero, loop closed 8Preamp-6.5 divs of 10 = 0.325v 92nd Harmonic 0, loop open or closed Modulation on, autolock on. Put up some pics on Photobucket earlier today: http://s775.photobucket.com/user/NikonFtn/library/?sort=6page=1#/user/NikonFtn/library/?sort=6page=1_suid=140932843589702368659727058955 So what am I missing ?. Did fill in the enquiry form at the Oscilloquartz web site a few days ago, but no reply. Should I try again, or are are there some special runes you need to recite before they will talk to you ? :-). Would be quite happy to pay a reasonable fee for a copy of the manual, paper or pdf... Regards, Chris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Need help with transformer core
I'm trying to built a DC to DC from an existing schematic for a frequency standard I'm working on. The transformer core is identified as an Indiana General F1152-1-6 The Dc to Dc is running at 22Khz and maybe 20 Watts. Can't find any info that would allow me to decide on a proper substitute. Anybody out there have any data on this? Thanks. Corby ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Subject: Re: Oscilloquartz 3210 Cesium Standard
Looks like a really nice piece of hardware, well worth fixing up. You might check the hot-wire ionizer filament on the Cs tube for continuity, as a failure there may not show up in a meter indication. Apart from that, the detailed troubleshooting steps in the contemporary HP Cs service manuals (5061A/5061B generation) would be very much applicable to this one. The block diagram will be similar. You could try measuring the beam current and SNR manually if all else fails; one approach that I used is detailed at http://www.ke5fx.com/cs.htm . -- john, KE5FX Miles Design LLC -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 2:05 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Subject: Re: Oscilloquartz 3210 Cesium Standard So what am I missing ?. Did fill in the enquiry form at the Oscilloquartz web site a few days ago, but no reply. Should I try again, or are are there some special runes you need to recite before they will talk to you ? :-). Would be quite happy to pay a reasonable fee for a copy of the manual, paper or pdf... Regards, Chris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Need help with transformer core
Hi Corby, I have the old data on that Indiana General part: it seems to be O-6 material - 4700 initial perm, 6000 max perm, up to 0.5 MHz, 210 degree C curie point - and F1152-1 is a 36x22 mm ungapped ferramic pot core - AsubL min =11530. If you need more data, I can probably scan the relevant pages. Regards, geo On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 6:11 PM, cdel...@juno.com wrote: I'm trying to built a DC to DC from an existing schematic for a frequency standard I'm working on. The transformer core is identified as an Indiana General F1152-1-6 The Dc to Dc is running at 22Khz and maybe 20 Watts. Can't find any info that would allow me to decide on a proper substitute. Anybody out there have any data on this? Thanks. Corby ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Need help with transformer core
cdel...@juno.com said: The Dc to Dc is running at 22Khz and maybe 20 Watts. Can't find any info that would allow me to decide on a proper substitute. Anybody out there have any data on this? National Semiconductor had a few app-notes that were cookbooks for using their chips to build DC-DC converters. They included part numbers. They probably have something similar to what you are trying to build. The basic idea is that you don't want the core to saturate. You should be able to figure out the current and use that to look in your favorite vendor's catalog. -- These are my opinions. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Subject: Re: Oscilloquartz 3210 Cesium Standard
Chris Sorry its not working. Very nice looking unit though. I did the Frankenstein thing on my 5060/5061. So if its bad there is no harm in seriously digging in. After all its just physics. On Frankenstein it took me an honest 6 months and the support of the time-nuts you already have. Learned a ton in the process and the monster lives. I was lucky at the same time I came across a HP pico-amp meter and could read the tube current directly and it was pitiful. Good luck Paul WB8TSL On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 6:10 PM, John Miles j...@miles.io wrote: Looks like a really nice piece of hardware, well worth fixing up. You might check the hot-wire ionizer filament on the Cs tube for continuity, as a failure there may not show up in a meter indication. Apart from that, the detailed troubleshooting steps in the contemporary HP Cs service manuals (5061A/5061B generation) would be very much applicable to this one. The block diagram will be similar. You could try measuring the beam current and SNR manually if all else fails; one approach that I used is detailed at http://www.ke5fx.com/cs.htm . -- john, KE5FX Miles Design LLC -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 2:05 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Subject: Re: Oscilloquartz 3210 Cesium Standard So what am I missing ?. Did fill in the enquiry form at the Oscilloquartz web site a few days ago, but no reply. Should I try again, or are are there some special runes you need to recite before they will talk to you ? :-). Would be quite happy to pay a reasonable fee for a copy of the manual, paper or pdf... Regards, Chris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Need help with transformer core
Hi Do you just have the core info or do you have the winding information as well? Bob On Aug 29, 2014, at 6:11 PM, cdel...@juno.com wrote: I'm trying to built a DC to DC from an existing schematic for a frequency standard I'm working on. The transformer core is identified as an Indiana General F1152-1-6 The Dc to Dc is running at 22Khz and maybe 20 Watts. Can't find any info that would allow me to decide on a proper substitute. Anybody out there have any data on this? Thanks. Corby ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Need help with transformer core
Rather than start from old design, you might just want to look at the online design tools and matching core selections for simple switcher boost and buck datasheets/app notes, or SG3524 type transformer converters. The major distributors carry inductors in their catalogs that are just to match the simple switcher series. PC-clone power supply transformers - can be unwound and then rewound with new windings - are often used with SG3524 type designs. Tim N3QE On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 6:11 PM, cdel...@juno.com wrote: I'm trying to built a DC to DC from an existing schematic for a frequency standard I'm working on. The transformer core is identified as an Indiana General F1152-1-6 The Dc to Dc is running at 22Khz and maybe 20 Watts. Can't find any info that would allow me to decide on a proper substitute. Anybody out there have any data on this? Thanks. Corby ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Need help with transformer core
Frankly, anybody that builds up a Simple Switcher type converter from scratch is more than a little nuts and/or awfully lonely. You can buy small, adjustable pre-built boards (buck or boost configs) off of Ebay for as little as a dollar each... including shipping from Old Cathay. I usually buy them 10 or 20 at a time. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Need help with transformer core
Thanks for the inputs everyone, One of the direct replies got me the data I needed! Alex, I'd like to by it that way, but A 24VDC input 3700VDC output at 4ma does not seem to be available! Cheers, Corby ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Need help with transformer core
Corby, Assuming that what you want to do is find a substitute for the F1152, you should be aware that schematics don't give you enough information to build one from scratch. The easiest thing to do is buy one from a catalog of DC-DC converters with the appropriate voltages and power - unless the frequency matters. Modern converters run at 100 KHz or more. Assuming you have the converter but it doesn't work, if the windings aren't burned or shorted and the core isn't cracked, the transformer should be OK. If a winding is bad, it shouldn't be difficult to rewind for a 20 KHz converter. There's a lot more turns at 60 Hz. You must use the same wire size or the winding won't fit. But if you have to get into the magnetics, as I did for 30 KVA frequency changers in 1968, and also DC converters, here are a few design considerations: (This assumes a saturating core oscillator with little more than two semiconductor switches for the oscillator and a bridge rectifier and filter for the output.) 1. Cores have maximum operating frequencies depending on material; power capacity depending on amount of core material; and a primary winding depending on the input current and voltage, or voltage and power. 4. The core has an open area which will be filled with windings. The size/gauge of the wire depends on the current carried. The number of turns determines the inductance of the primary, which determines the time that it will take for the core to saturate at a fixed supply voltage, by V = L di/dt. The saturation time, times 2, is the period of the oscillation. Note that i is not a function of output power, but is determined by L and V. For a given L and V, the saturation time is determined by the amount of core material. The current falls out of the equations when you are looking for saturation time. To be precise, the current discussed here is the magnetizing current. Total current increases as the output draws current. 8. The open area in the core also has to accommodate the secondary. The number of turns is determined by the input/output voltage ratio. The wire size for the necessary current and the open core area determine the number of turns that will fit, as does the thickness of the insulation. Throw in the calculations required to minimize the weight for a given power, and perhaps you begin to see why transformer design is as much art as science. Disclaimer: This is from memory, as my design books have been downsized on the way to a senior living apartment. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: cdel...@juno.com Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 5:12 PM I'm trying to built a DC to DC from an existing schematic for a frequency standard I'm working on. The transformer core is identified as an Indiana General F1152-1-6 The Dc to Dc is running at 22Khz and maybe 20 Watts. Can't find any info that would allow me to decide on a proper substitute. Anybody out there have any data on this? Thanks. Corby ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Need help with transformer core
There are actually quite a few makers of what you seek... EMCO H40P will do 3.75 mA at up to 4000V... voltage selected by a 0..5V input. Also check out PPM's offerings... http://www.ppmpower.co.uk/high_voltage_dc_dc_converters/ And UltraVolt's 4AA series: http://www.ultravolt.com/uv_docs/AASeriesDS.pdf - but A 24VDC input 3700VDC output at 4ma does not seem to be available! ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
