Re: [time-nuts] Need help with transformer core
On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 01:58:40 + Mark Sims hol...@hotmail.com wrote: Frankly, anybody that builds up a Simple Switcher type converter from scratch is more than a little nuts and/or awfully lonely. You can buy small, adjustable pre-built boards (buck or boost configs) off of Ebay for as little as a dollar each... including shipping from Old Cathay. I usually buy them 10 or 20 at a time. I slightly disagree here. There are half a dozen parameters that one has to design for when building a DC/DC converter. Simply using one badly specified converter bought of ebay is not going to work unless your requirements are very docile. There is a reason why most electronics devices have a custom build DC/DC converter onboard instead of using one of the available modules (and it's not only money), or that there are companies who have specilized in designing custom DC/DC converters for other electronic design houses to use. As for time-nuts, probably the most important factor in a DC/DC converter is the output voltage/current ripple and its spectrum. Closely followed by magnetic and electrical fields around the converter. Unfortunately, these depend quite a bit on things that are neither specified nor can be easily measured: cleannes of layout and quality of components. Ie whether you use a $0.01 or a $0.05 ceramic capacitor can make the difference whether you have high frequency components (a couple MHz) in the output ripple. Also, i would not dare to change the DC/DC converter of a device unless i know exactly what happens downstream and how the whole system was designed. Especially in bigger, complex devices, there is a strange interdependence between power supply behaviour and consumer behaviour. Attila Kinali -- I pity people who can't find laughter or at least some bit of amusement in the little doings of the day. I believe I could find something ridiculous even in the saddest moment, if necessary. It has nothing to do with being superficial. It's a matter of joy in life. -- Sophie Scholl ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Need help with transformer core
Attila Any opinion or observation on Mean Well's SD series, they are a key component on most of our projects. Bert Kehren In a message dated 8/31/2014 6:51:13 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, att...@kinali.ch writes: On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 01:58:40 + Mark Sims hol...@hotmail.com wrote: Frankly, anybody that builds up a Simple Switcher type converter from scratch is more than a little nuts and/or awfully lonely. You can buy small, adjustable pre-built boards (buck or boost configs) off of Ebay for as little as a dollar each... including shipping from Old Cathay. I usually buy them 10 or 20 at a time. I slightly disagree here. There are half a dozen parameters that one has to design for when building a DC/DC converter. Simply using one badly specified converter bought of ebay is not going to work unless your requirements are very docile. There is a reason why most electronics devices have a custom build DC/DC converter onboard instead of using one of the available modules (and it's not only money), or that there are companies who have specilized in designing custom DC/DC converters for other electronic design houses to use. As for time-nuts, probably the most important factor in a DC/DC converter is the output voltage/current ripple and its spectrum. Closely followed by magnetic and electrical fields around the converter. Unfortunately, these depend quite a bit on things that are neither specified nor can be easily measured: cleannes of layout and quality of components. Ie whether you use a $0.01 or a $0.05 ceramic capacitor can make the difference whether you have high frequency components (a couple MHz) in the output ripple. Also, i would not dare to change the DC/DC converter of a device unless i know exactly what happens downstream and how the whole system was designed. Especially in bigger, complex devices, there is a strange interdependence between power supply behaviour and consumer behaviour. Attila Kinali -- I pity people who can't find laughter or at least some bit of amusement in the little doings of the day. I believe I could find something ridiculous even in the saddest moment, if necessary. It has nothing to do with being superficial. It's a matter of joy in life. -- Sophie Scholl ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] CW12-TIM
I just started working with a Navsync CW12-TIM. I'm interested in programming the freq output. What's the best software to use? TIA Mike -- 73, Mike, N1JEZ A closed mouth gathers no feet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] CW12-TIM
I got it. WinOncore. Frequency set. Mike On 8/31/2014 10:22 AM, Mike Seguin wrote: I just started working with a Navsync CW12-TIM. I'm interested in programming the freq output. What's the best software to use? TIA Mike -- 73, Mike, N1JEZ A closed mouth gathers no feet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Need help with transformer core
Hoi Bert, On Sun, 31 Aug 2014 07:15:02 -0400 (EDT) Bert Kehren via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: Any opinion or observation on Mean Well's SD series, they are a key component on most of our projects. I never had the pleasure to measure any of the Mean Well DC/DC converters. Looking at their spec, they seem decent enough. The ripple and load regulation specs are not exactly time-nut class, but not unheard of for this kind of brick, isolating DC/DC converters. Also a nice feature is the CE marking, resp the EMC emission specs, which a lot of cheaper devices do not have. Unfortunately, they do not mention which class of the EN55022 they comply to. It's probably Class B, but not necesarily. [1] What i'm missing is a specification of the switching frequency, that would help to guide the filter needed at the output. But i'd assume it's something in the range of 100kHz-500kHz, definitly less than 1MHz at these power ratings. Such brick converters are usually used as a first stage converter to power a complete system from some industrial or telecom power rail. As such, they are meant to have a second stage regulator infront of the electronics (or electronics that can cope with the ripples and flucutation of the power rails, like slow digital logic). Ie. i recommend to use another, specialized DC/DC converter or LDO infront of your electronics, to keep the power more stable and have less ripple. As for use with an FE-5680A, i guess these DC/DC converters are good enough, as the FE-5680A has its own internal regulator. HTH Attila Kinali [1] A little warning here. The normal way how such devices pass the EMC/EMI tests is by constructing a still realistic circuitry around it, that modifies the devices behaviour enough that any non-compliance is mitigated. Unless you measure these devices with a realistic model of your system, or the system itself, you cannot be sure that the DC/DC converter still passes the EMC regulations. -- I pity people who can't find laughter or at least some bit of amusement in the little doings of the day. I believe I could find something ridiculous even in the saddest moment, if necessary. It has nothing to do with being superficial. It's a matter of joy in life. -- Sophie Scholl ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Need help with transformer core
Thanks for the reply in all applications the DC DC converter is used for isolation and followed by linear regulators. In critical stages like dual mixer two stages. Bert In a message dated 8/31/2014 11:12:18 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, att...@kinali.ch writes: Hoi Bert, On Sun, 31 Aug 2014 07:15:02 -0400 (EDT) Bert Kehren via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: Any opinion or observation on Mean Well's SD series, they are a key component on most of our projects. I never had the pleasure to measure any of the Mean Well DC/DC converters. Looking at their spec, they seem decent enough. The ripple and load regulation specs are not exactly time-nut class, but not unheard of for this kind of brick, isolating DC/DC converters. Also a nice feature is the CE marking, resp the EMC emission specs, which a lot of cheaper devices do not have. Unfortunately, they do not mention which class of the EN55022 they comply to. It's probably Class B, but not necesarily. [1] What i'm missing is a specification of the switching frequency, that would help to guide the filter needed at the output. But i'd assume it's something in the range of 100kHz-500kHz, definitly less than 1MHz at these power ratings. Such brick converters are usually used as a first stage converter to power a complete system from some industrial or telecom power rail. As such, they are meant to have a second stage regulator infront of the electronics (or electronics that can cope with the ripples and flucutation of the power rails, like slow digital logic). Ie. i recommend to use another, specialized DC/DC converter or LDO infront of your electronics, to keep the power more stable and have less ripple. As for use with an FE-5680A, i guess these DC/DC converters are good enough, as the FE-5680A has its own internal regulator. HTH Attila Kinali [1] A little warning here. The normal way how such devices pass the EMC/EMI tests is by constructing a still realistic circuitry around it, that modifies the devices behaviour enough that any non-compliance is mitigated. Unless you measure these devices with a realistic model of your system, or the system itself, you cannot be sure that the DC/DC converter still passes the EMC regulations. -- I pity people who can't find laughter or at least some bit of amusement in the little doings of the day. I believe I could find something ridiculous even in the saddest moment, if necessary. It has nothing to do with being superficial. It's a matter of joy in life. -- Sophie Scholl ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] CW12-TIM
A frequency set command in WinOncore? The WinOncore was designed by Motorola for their receivers using their binary command set, it is very strange that this software can have a ConnorWinfield/Navsync proprietary command ($PRTHS,FRQD,frequency_in_MHz[*optional_checksum]crlf) to set the CW12 output frequency. A dedicated software is not needed: using whatever serial terminal program, you just send the above command using the keyboard and you can set any frequency upto 30MHz. For 10KHz just type $PRTHS,FRQD,0.01crlf (the serial port is 38400,N,8,1). The CW12-TIM must be the NMEA version. On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Mike Seguin n1...@burlingtontelecom.net wrote: I got it. WinOncore. Frequency set. Mike On 8/31/2014 10:22 AM, Mike Seguin wrote: I just started working with a Navsync CW12-TIM. I'm interested in programming the freq output. What's the best software to use? TIA Mike -- 73, Mike, N1JEZ A closed mouth gathers no feet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] CW12-TIM
You are right. There is no frequency set command in WinOnCore, but you can simply type in $PRTHS,FRQD,0.01 and press return to send the command from the command window. That's what did. WinOncore let me see the unit status - satellite tracking etc as did VisualGPS and Tac32. In the CW12 User manual, there are references to WinOnCore all through it. Mike On 8/31/2014 1:12 PM, Azelio Boriani wrote: A frequency set command in WinOncore? The WinOncore was designed by Motorola for their receivers using their binary command set, it is very strange that this software can have a ConnorWinfield/Navsync proprietary command ($PRTHS,FRQD,frequency_in_MHz[*optional_checksum]crlf) to set the CW12 output frequency. A dedicated software is not needed: using whatever serial terminal program, you just send the above command using the keyboard and you can set any frequency upto 30MHz. For 10KHz just type $PRTHS,FRQD,0.01crlf (the serial port is 38400,N,8,1). The CW12-TIM must be the NMEA version. On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Mike Seguin n1...@burlingtontelecom.net wrote: I got it. WinOncore. Frequency set. Mike On 8/31/2014 10:22 AM, Mike Seguin wrote: I just started working with a Navsync CW12-TIM. I'm interested in programming the freq output. What's the best software to use? TIA Mike -- 73, Mike, N1JEZ A closed mouth gathers no feet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- 73, Mike, N1JEZ A closed mouth gathers no feet ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Lambda power supply data
Hi, Anybody have the mechanical data for mounting a Lambda LRS-54M-24 power supply? It has to be the M type. I believe there are 6 holes on the bottom and I need to know the spacing of the holes. BTW thanks again for all the DC to DC converter info! Cheers, Corby Dawson ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Poor Mans TIC (Using Beaglebone onboard PRU)
Hi Folks, As much as we all love our HP 5370B's, they are a tad expensive if you want to monitor several PPS sources long term to ensure they are all closely syncronised. In my case, I have three Austron 2100 LORAN receivers and a HP Z3816A GPS receiver. I wanted to be able to compare each of their PPS outputs with the PPS output of the Z3816A, as well as each other. Clearly, multiple 5370's would have been too expensive, not just for initial outlay, but also ongoing electrical costs would not be helped! However, the Beaglebone (Both White and Black variants) have two PRUs. These are real-time units, with clocks that run at 200 MHz, and most instructions complete in 1 clock cycle (5ns) So, I decided to write a TIC in the PRU Assembler to scratch my particular itch. The current code waits for the A clock to go high, and then counts until B goes high, resets it's counters, and waits for A to go high again. It also keeps track of a sequence number for sanity's sake, and onward processing. Since the Beaglebone's have two PRUs, I have written the code to run on both at the same time, and use different GPIO pins, so you can compare up two sets of two clocks, or two clocks with a common reference. Pins are documented in README.txt Now, it's resolution is 20ns. However, it gets confused if the two pulses are less than around 10-11uS apart. I -think- this is when it sends the data back to the host processor via shared RAM. In my case, this is not an issue, as I can just slew the PPS from the Austron's (or even use the Fixed PPS), but if you wanted to compare two GPS receivers, then that would be an issue. I'll have to look if there's a better way to do the shared memory stuff (interrupts, signaling etc), or store multiple intervals and send them all at once, although the current code seems pretty tight. I'd like to have tried it with 1MHz, 5MHz, and even 10 MHz clocks, as 20nS resolution will handle that, but I think I need to fix the 11uS separation issue first. Then again, it was written to compare PPS's from different Austron 2100's and GPS. It also took less than 24 hours from concept to running :) If anyone wants it, the code is here here: http://hal.g7iii.net/bb_tic/ You will need the pasm compiler, and probably the am335x PRU package, although there are (tiny) binaries there as well Setup, Compile, and Running instructions are included in README.txt Oh, Sample output: PRU0: Seq No:848 Interval:11680 ns or 0.11680 seconds PRU0: Seq No:849 Interval:11680 ns or 0.11680 seconds PRU0: Seq No:850 Interval:11700 ns or 0.11700 seconds PRU0: Seq No:851 Interval:11680 ns or 0.11680 seconds PRU0: Seq No:852 Interval:11680 ns or 0.11680 seconds PRU0: Seq No:853 Interval:11680 ns or 0.11680 seconds PRU0: Seq No:854 Interval:11680 ns or 0.11680 seconds PRU0: Seq No:855 Interval:11680 ns or 0.11680 seconds PRU0: Seq No:856 Interval:11680 ns or 0.11680 seconds PRU0: Seq No:857 Interval:11680 ns or 0.11680 seconds PRU0: Seq No:858 Interval:11680 ns or 0.11680 seconds PRU0: Seq No:859 Interval:11680 ns or 0.11680 seconds PRU0: Seq No:860 Interval:11660 ns or 0.11660 seconds PRU0: Seq No:861 Interval:11660 ns or 0.11660 seconds You can plainly see the Austron has a jitter of around +/-20 ns from the GPS PPS (figures confirmed with the 5370). Slew was around 11.5us. I must wire up the other two Austron's but will need to build a new BB image first :) Hope someone else finds the code useful. Iain ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] 5061A SN1816A01444 lives again
Yes, Virginia, there are still a few bargains to be had in the world. After hacking together a power cord, letting it warm up for an hour or so, and going through the long power off procedure from the manual, the latest addition to my test equipment collection came to life. It arrived the other day in a large, well packed box, foamed in place, marked 'FRAGILE' and 'HEAVY', I was pretty excited to get it down into the lab and get it powered up. Following the directions in the manual, I let it warm up, did the proper adjustments, clicked START, counted to 30, hit 'Reset', and was rewarded with a bright green Continuous Operation lamp. FYI, I paid a grand sum of $250 plus $70 for Fed-Ex shipping for a pretty nice Cc standard. This is the 5061 I've been waiting for. Well, I would like the optional LED clock, but I'll live. :) It now goes into the collection along with the Rubidium standard and the HP 3801 GPSDO. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Poor Mans TIC (Using Beaglebone onboard PRU)
Hi Iain, Thanks very much for posting, and for sharing the code. I know many of us are interested in how well modern CPU's or SBC's can be used as time interval, time stamping, and frequency counting instruments. I know the BB PRU's have been mentioned before on the list but it's really nice to see actual code and test results. About the hp 5370 -- realize that these are still 1000x more precise (on the order of tens of ps) than what a BB/PRU is capable of (on the order of tens of ns). But as you observe, they key point is -- for mid- to long-term measurement of free-running time/frequency standards you do not necessarily need ps-level measurement capability. Nanosecond, or even microsecond time resolution is more than enough to create comprehensive plots of time and frequency drift over the long-term. Again, thanks. /tvb - Original Message - From: Iain Young i...@g7iii.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2014 1:24 PM Subject: [time-nuts] Poor Mans TIC (Using Beaglebone onboard PRU) Hi Folks, As much as we all love our HP 5370B's, they are a tad expensive if you want to monitor several PPS sources long term to ensure they are all closely syncronised. In my case, I have three Austron 2100 LORAN receivers and a HP Z3816A GPS receiver. I wanted to be able to compare each of their PPS outputs with the PPS output of the Z3816A, as well as each other. Clearly, multiple 5370's would have been too expensive, not just for initial outlay, but also ongoing electrical costs would not be helped! However, the Beaglebone (Both White and Black variants) have two PRUs. These are real-time units, with clocks that run at 200 MHz, and most instructions complete in 1 clock cycle (5ns) So, I decided to write a TIC in the PRU Assembler to scratch my particular itch. The current code waits for the A clock to go high, and then counts until B goes high, resets it's counters, and waits for A to go high again. It also keeps track of a sequence number for sanity's sake, and onward processing. Since the Beaglebone's have two PRUs, I have written the code to run on both at the same time, and use different GPIO pins, so you can compare up two sets of two clocks, or two clocks with a common reference. Pins are documented in README.txt Now, it's resolution is 20ns. However, it gets confused if the two pulses are less than around 10-11uS apart. I -think- this is when it sends the data back to the host processor via shared RAM. In my case, this is not an issue, as I can just slew the PPS from the Austron's (or even use the Fixed PPS), but if you wanted to compare two GPS receivers, then that would be an issue. I'll have to look if there's a better way to do the shared memory stuff (interrupts, signaling etc), or store multiple intervals and send them all at once, although the current code seems pretty tight. I'd like to have tried it with 1MHz, 5MHz, and even 10 MHz clocks, as 20nS resolution will handle that, but I think I need to fix the 11uS separation issue first. Then again, it was written to compare PPS's from different Austron 2100's and GPS. It also took less than 24 hours from concept to running :) If anyone wants it, the code is here here: http://hal.g7iii.net/bb_tic/ You will need the pasm compiler, and probably the am335x PRU package, although there are (tiny) binaries there as well Setup, Compile, and Running instructions are included in README.txt Oh, Sample output: PRU0: Seq No:848 Interval:11680 ns or 0.11680 seconds PRU0: Seq No:849 Interval:11680 ns or 0.11680 seconds PRU0: Seq No:850 Interval:11700 ns or 0.11700 seconds PRU0: Seq No:851 Interval:11680 ns or 0.11680 seconds PRU0: Seq No:852 Interval:11680 ns or 0.11680 seconds PRU0: Seq No:853 Interval:11680 ns or 0.11680 seconds PRU0: Seq No:854 Interval:11680 ns or 0.11680 seconds PRU0: Seq No:855 Interval:11680 ns or 0.11680 seconds PRU0: Seq No:856 Interval:11680 ns or 0.11680 seconds PRU0: Seq No:857 Interval:11680 ns or 0.11680 seconds PRU0: Seq No:858 Interval:11680 ns or 0.11680 seconds PRU0: Seq No:859 Interval:11680 ns or 0.11680 seconds PRU0: Seq No:860 Interval:11660 ns or 0.11660 seconds PRU0: Seq No:861 Interval:11660 ns or 0.11660 seconds You can plainly see the Austron has a jitter of around +/-20 ns from the GPS PPS (figures confirmed with the 5370). Slew was around 11.5us. I must wire up the other two Austron's but will need to build a new BB image first :) Hope someone else finds the code useful. Iain ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
