Re: [time-nuts] [Announce] Simulation software for powerlaw noise and PTP clock synchronization

[Anders Wallin]

>
> I would like to announce the public availabilty of two software projects
> which I have been working on for my master thesis:
>
> * LibPLN: a portable C++ library for the efficient simulation of Powerlaw
> Noise (PLN)
>

Do you get agreement between PLN time-series and calcluated ADEVs, as per
IEEE1139-2008 table B.2 ?

I tried [3] using python libraries colorednoise [1] (also based on
Kasdin) and allantools [2], but it gives ADEVs that are
systematically higher than predicted by theory. OTOH the calculated MDEVs
seem to fall on the line that theory predicts. Image here:
http://www.anderswallin.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/colorednoise-1.png

On your libPLN page the time-series graph is called 'time deviation' which
could be a bit confusing as there is also an ADEV-like statistic called
time deviation. Perhaps time-series or 'phase observations' or similar is
better?


Anders
[1] https://github.com/jleute/colorednoise
[2] https://github.com/aewallin/allantools
[3]
https://github.com/jleute/colorednoise/blob/master/example_noise_slopes.py
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Can a Symmetricom 58532A antenna and ham radio transmitters coexist?

[Bruce Lane]

I have multiple GPS antennas, an HF ground plane and a long wire. I
typically run no more than 100W on HF, but am capable of pushing to 500.
All the antennas are within 30-40 feet of each other.

Personally, I've never had an interference problem between any of them.
I use LMR240DB (Direct Burial) for the GPS runs, and LMR400DB for the
HF's. Yes, the filling goo can be a hassle, but at least it is easily
removed with the citrusy-smelling solvent (darned if I can remember the
name of the stuff at the moment). The extra water protection and UV
resistance are well worth it, at least to me.

If you're really paranoid, rdr-electronics on Ebay has lots of NIB
High-Rejection rated GPS timing antennas, made by PCTel/MaxRad for
Lucent. They are expressly designed for use in high-RF environments and
contain extra filtering.

The item number would be 231898765036, going for $30 + shipping last I
looked. The manufacturer part number is GPS-TMG-HR-26NCM, Lucent P/N
KS24019-L112D, ComCode 849143987. The collar takes a 1.5 inch mast.

No connection with rdr on my part, other than being a very happy
customer of theirs for the last several years.

Keep the peace(es).


On 14-Apr-16 02:01, Pete Stephenson wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I recently acquired a pair of Symmetricom 58532A antennas and so far
> they work great with my setup (antenna --> Symmetricom 58535A splitter
> --> [1] Thunderbolt and [2] other receivers that I swap out
> occasionally).
> 
> I'm also an amateur radio operator and am looking to mount the 58532A
> on a roof-mounted mast to get better coverage (right now it's outside
> a window). Would the presence of nearby (either on the mast or within
> 20m of the mast) HF (3.5-30MHz) , VHF (~145MHz), and UHF (~430MHz)
> transmitters cause any issues? My transmit power is typically around
> 5-20W on HF with peaks up to 100W and 1-5W on VHF/UHF. The HF antenna
> is a simple wire dipole, not a high-gain directional antenna.
> 
> Naturally, I'd like to avoid damaging my GPS antenna or any of the
> downstream devices.
> 
> Since the 58532A is currently mounted relatively close to the
> splitter, I'm using LMR100A coax (it's lossy, but the short lengths
> mean it's not an issue; the window mount makes the thinness of the
> cable important) but for the longer run from the mast I'd used LMR240
> or LMR400 as needed. I use the same type of cable for the HF radio.
> Those cables are well-shielded (braid-on-foil) with >90dB shielding
> attenuation, so I don't think signal leakage from or ingress into the
> cables will be a big deal.
> 
> The datasheet for the 58532A specifies the out-of-band signal
> attenuation is around 60dB at +/- 50MHz.
> 
> Many thanks in advance for the help.
> 
> Cheers!
> -Pete
> 

-- 
---
Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR
http://www.bluefeathertech.com
kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech dot com
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green)
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] HP 5360A History?

[paul swed]

Atilla,
It was way back when Rubidium who heard of a Ham having something like that
or GPS locked references. Typical ovens came out of 2 way radios. Very
simple bang bang ovens. Yes good ones existed but never showed up at
hamfests. Internet? No such thing.
So this double oven with the fast start external heater was pretty
interesting. It had something called EFC? Extra Fancy Cost? All I am saying
for me was it was my first really good oscillator. They were used in the
5360s and also the 5248 counter as the higher stability option. Have a
couple of those counters.
So thats why I like them. That first find was $2 and it was in a pile of
just true junk.
Really wonder what else was there, but would not recognize the value of
what had been at that time.
This is a very short answer.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 5:55 AM, Attila Kinali  wrote:

> Hoi Paul,
>
> On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 14:35:23 -0400
> paul swed  wrote:
>
> > They also have a really
> > good oven I have 8 of those. That oven and then the counter started me
> into
> > time-nuttery about 1990. Because what on earth would have used this oven?
>
> What made that oven so great? And do you have any pictures?
>
> Attila Kinali
>
> --
> It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All
> the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no
> use without that foundation.
>  -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] ADEV and fractional frequency

[Attila Kinali]

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 07:33:11 -0700
Jeremy Nichols  wrote:

> Correct, Attila. I've been trying to find two separate definitions when 
> it seems they are the same thing. It also shows my age that I don't 
> automatically check Wikipedia.

Well.. The formula there appears at a lot of other places as well.
Like NIST Tech Note 1337. What other formula did you see and why did
it confuse you?

I am trying to figure out what makes ADEV & Co hard to understand,
so we could come up with a better explanation.

Attila Kinali

-- 
It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All 
the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no 
use without that foundation.
 -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] [Announce] Simulation software for powerlaw noise and PTP clock synchronization

[Herbert Poetzl]

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 10:18:22PM +0200, Wolfgang Wallner wrote:

> Dear Timenuts community,

Wolfgang,

> I would like to announce the public availabilty of two software projects 
> which I have been working on for my master thesis:

> * LibPLN: a portable C++ library for the efficient simulation
>   of Powerlaw Noise (PLN)
> * LibPTP: a simulation framework based on the OMNeT++ network
>   simulation environment, for the simulation of the Precision
>   Time Protocol (PTP) as it is specified in IEEE 1588-2008

Thanks!

> Getting started:
> --

> Both software project are available as open source from my Github 
> account: https://github.com/w-wallner
> The readme files present on the Github page should give you an idea on 
> how to get started using the individual components.


> License:
> --

> All code is licensed using open source licenses.
> Most parts of the software are licensed as GPLv3, some parts use the 
> GPLv2 and BSD licenses.
> See the respective COPYING files for details.

Very appreciated!

> Detailed documentation:
> --

> A detailed description of all design design decisions and how
> the fundamental concepts of the libraries work is contained in
> my master thesis:

> Simulation of Time-synchronized Networks using IEEE 1588-2008, 
> 2016, Vienna University of Technology

> As of this writing (April 2016), it is not yet published, the expected 
> publication date will be May or June 2016.

Please let me/us know when there is an electronic
Version available.

> I hope these projects can be useful for some of you :)
> In case you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Thanks again,
Herbert

> Kind regards,
> Wolfgang Wallner
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to 
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] ADEV and fractional frequency

[Magnus Danielson]

Hi,

Well, there is two different ways to evaluate ADEV, but the 5360 variant 
would be the non-overlapping Allan Deviation for sure.


Cheers,
Magnus

On 04/14/2016 04:33 PM, Jeremy Nichols wrote:

Correct, Attila. I've been trying to find two separate definitions when
it seems they are the same thing. It also shows my age that I don't
automatically check Wikipedia.

Jeremy

On 4/14/2016 3:18 AM, Attila Kinali wrote:

Hoi Jeremy,

On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 16:16:02 -0700
Jeremy Nichols  wrote:


It would appear that the Allen variance as defined at the bottom of page
4 in TVB's reference to the December 1970 HP Journal (thanks, Tom!) is
the same formula as that used for "fractional frequency deviation" in
other HP publications on the 5360A. This is helpful to me because I've
been tearing my hair out trying to find one reference that equates
the two.

Do you mean by "the two" ADEV and fractional frequency? If so,
could you enlighten me where the confusion comes from? Because
the formula you refere to in the HP journal is just a different
way of writing the standard two sample ADEV which you can also
find on wikipedia.

Attila Kinali



___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] [Announce] Simulation software for powerlaw noise and PTP clock synchronization

[timenut]

Wolfgang,

Thank you for sharing. I would like a copy of your Thesis when it published (I
don't need a physical copy, .pdf is ok). I'm sure others out here would like
to see it as well.


Mike


> Dear Timenuts community,

> I would like to announce the public availabilty of two software projects 
> which I have been working on for my master thesis:

> * LibPLN: a portable C++ library for the efficient simulation of 
> Powerlaw Noise (PLN)
> * LibPTP: a simulation framework based on the OMNeT++ network simulation 
> environment, for the simulation of the Precision Time Protocol (PTP) as 
> it is specified in IEEE 1588-2008


> Getting started:
> --

> Both software project are available as open source from my Github 
> account: https://github.com/w-wallner
> The readme files present on the Github page should give you an idea on 
> how to get started using the individual components.


> License:
> --

> All code is licensed using open source licenses.
> Most parts of the software are licensed as GPLv3, some parts use the 
> GPLv2 and BSD licenses.
> See the respective COPYING files for details.


> Detailed documentation:
> --

> A detailed description of all design design decisions and how the 
> fundamental concepts of the libraries work is contained in my master thesis:

>  Simulation of Time-synchronized Networks using IEEE 1588-2008, 
> 2016, Vienna University of Technology

> As of this writing (April 2016), it is not yet published, the expected 
> publication date will be May or June 2016.


> I hope these projects can be useful for some of you :)
> In case you have any questions, feel free to ask.

> Kind regards,
> Wolfgang Wallner
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.



-- 
Best regards,
 Timenutmailto:time...@metachaos.net

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Fast risetime pulse generator

[David]

On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 22:52:28 -0500, you wrote:

>On Wed, April 13, 2016 5:32 pm, David wrote:
>> Step recovery diodes are very similar in construction to varactor
>> diodes so the later can be used in step recovery applications with
>> qualification.
>
>Agilent app note AN1054 discusses using PIN diodes as frequency
>multipliers.  I believe that the PIN diodes were used in the manner of a
>step recovery diode, as a less expensive and more easily attainable
>replacement.

PIN diodes will certainly work as well and maybe even better since
they will have less capacitance.
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Fast risetime pulse generator

[Brooke Clarke]

Hi:

The idea with a step recovery diode is that during forward bias the diode stores charge.  When the polarity reverses the 
diode continues to conduct until the charge has been depleted.  At that time the diode stops conducting and opens.
Suppose this was done using a square wave. The length of the positive (charging) half of waveform needs to be long 
enough so that the diode if fully charged (a function of the diode lifetime and charging current).  Then on the negative 
half (discharging) when all the charge has been extracted the diode turns of making a sharp edge.  So the diode lifetime 
is important in relation to input drive frequency.  For a sinewave drive the lifetime should be about 1/4 the period at 
the recommended drive level.

http://www.prc68.com/I/Diodes.html
Diodes that store charge have different names and that's related to how they are characterized.  So PIN, Varactor, SRD 
and Noise are all diodes that store charge, and can all be used in any of those application if you have good 
characterization data.  In the HP 5100 Frequency Synthesizer they use a heater on the SRD in order to increase it's 
lifetime so that the 3 MHz drive will generate the needed harmonics. http://www.prc68.com/I/HP5100.shtml These 
assemblies are no longer available and getting an SRD with a lifetime long enough to work with a 3 MHz input is a common 
as chicken teeth.  A solution is to get a large stud mounted Varactor and these do have long lifetimes.


Note a "Comb Generator" is an SRD with an input matching circuit (typically 100 MHz) specified in the frequency domain, 
but can also be thought of as a fast pulse generator.  I designed and built a hermetically sealed cylindrical module 
that was 1 100 MHz input comb generator at Aertech. http://www.prc68.com/I/Aertech.shtml#Comb 


The HP 8406 is a lower frequency bench top instrument.
http://www.prc68.com/I/HP8406.shtml

PS Talking about impedance with a non linear device like a diode can lead to 
unexpected results.

--
Have Fun,

Brooke Clarke
http://www.PRC68.com
http://www.end2partygovernment.com/2012Issues.html
The lesser of evils is still evil.

 Original Message 

Agilent app note AN1054


___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

[time-nuts] [Announce] Simulation software for powerlaw noise and PTP clock synchronization

[Wolfgang Wallner]

Dear Timenuts community,

I would like to announce the public availabilty of two software projects 
which I have been working on for my master thesis:


* LibPLN: a portable C++ library for the efficient simulation of 
Powerlaw Noise (PLN)
* LibPTP: a simulation framework based on the OMNeT++ network simulation 
environment, for the simulation of the Precision Time Protocol (PTP) as 
it is specified in IEEE 1588-2008



Getting started:
--

Both software project are available as open source from my Github 
account: https://github.com/w-wallner
The readme files present on the Github page should give you an idea on 
how to get started using the individual components.



License:
--

All code is licensed using open source licenses.
Most parts of the software are licensed as GPLv3, some parts use the 
GPLv2 and BSD licenses.

See the respective COPYING files for details.


Detailed documentation:
--

A detailed description of all design design decisions and how the 
fundamental concepts of the libraries work is contained in my master thesis:


Simulation of Time-synchronized Networks using IEEE 1588-2008, 
2016, Vienna University of Technology


As of this writing (April 2016), it is not yet published, the expected 
publication date will be May or June 2016.



I hope these projects can be useful for some of you :)
In case you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Kind regards,
Wolfgang Wallner
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Looking for insight with an hp 5350B 20GHz counter

[paul swed]

Walter your insight is most likely the issue. The same thing happens on EIP
counters. The front end is blown. But before jumping to that conclusion its
good to confirm that the sampler injection levels are good at the higher
frequency.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 11:48 AM, walter shawlee 2 
wrote:

> I recently got a nice looking 5350B counter, but bench tests showed a
> strange problem.  the low frequency section is fine, but the high frequency
> section only runs to 14Ghz, and is about 20dB less sensitive than it should
> be (-10dBm v. -32dBm).  the manual shows that there is nothing between the
> input and a mysterious undocumented circle labeled U1 Sampler.
>
> There are no real diagnostics for this portion other than a live signal,
> and it appears to a non-user service item. Overloading the input is a
> tragically common way to damage the front end, so I am a bit worried that
> is the problem here. Is there anyone with some similar experience with this
> counter that can give me a bit of good troubleshooting advice?  there is a
> very good and detailed set of diagnostics for this unit, except this one
> input portion, but it would be helpful to know if this is symptomatic of a
> damaged input sampler before I burn up many bench hours testing everything
> else.
>
> all advice welcome,
> regards,
> walter
>
> --
> Walter Shawlee 2, President
> Sphere Research Corporation
> 3394 Sunnyside Rd.,  West Kelowna,  BC
> V1Z 2V4  CANADA  Phone: (250) 769-1834
> walt...@sphere.bc.ca
> WS2: We're all in one boat, no matter how it looks to you.
> Love is all you need. (John Lennon)
> But, that doesn't mean other things don't come in handy. (WS2)
>
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

[time-nuts] FW: : HP 5360A History(Terminet answerback board)

[Gordon Batey]

Subject: : [time-nuts] HP 5360A History(Terminet answerback board)

Good evening Tom and TN,

I was a manufacturing engineer and set up the initial assembly line for the
Terminet board area in 1969 in Waynesboro Virginia.  I remember those being
very different boards.  Learned about and trained folks to use flow solder
machines, etc...

73 Gordon WA4FJC

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

[time-nuts] Looking for insight with an hp 5350B 20GHz counter

[walter shawlee 2]

I recently got a nice looking 5350B counter, but bench tests showed a strange 
problem.  the low frequency section is fine, but the high frequency section only 
runs to 14Ghz, and is about 20dB less sensitive than it should be (-10dBm v. 
-32dBm).  the manual shows that there is nothing between the input and a 
mysterious undocumented circle labeled U1 Sampler.


There are no real diagnostics for this portion other than a live signal, and it 
appears to a non-user service item. Overloading the input is a tragically common 
way to damage the front end, so I am a bit worried that is the problem here. Is 
there anyone with some similar experience with this counter that can give me a 
bit of good troubleshooting advice?  there is a very good and detailed set of 
diagnostics for this unit, except this one input portion, but it would be 
helpful to know if this is symptomatic of a damaged input sampler before I burn 
up many bench hours testing everything else.


all advice welcome,
regards,
walter

--
Walter Shawlee 2, President
Sphere Research Corporation
3394 Sunnyside Rd.,  West Kelowna,  BC
V1Z 2V4  CANADA  Phone: (250) 769-1834
walt...@sphere.bc.ca
WS2: We're all in one boat, no matter how it looks to you.
Love is all you need. (John Lennon)
But, that doesn't mean other things don't come in handy. (WS2)

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] ADEV and fractional frequency

[Jeremy Nichols]

Correct, Attila. I've been trying to find two separate definitions when 
it seems they are the same thing. It also shows my age that I don't 
automatically check Wikipedia.


Jeremy

On 4/14/2016 3:18 AM, Attila Kinali wrote:

Hoi Jeremy,

On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 16:16:02 -0700
Jeremy Nichols  wrote:


It would appear that the Allen variance as defined at the bottom of page
4 in TVB's reference to the December 1970 HP Journal (thanks, Tom!) is
the same formula as that used for "fractional frequency deviation" in
other HP publications on the 5360A. This is helpful to me because I've
been tearing my hair out trying to find one reference that equates the two.

Do you mean by "the two" ADEV and fractional frequency? If so,
could you enlighten me where the confusion comes from? Because
the formula you refere to in the HP journal is just a different
way of writing the standard two sample ADEV which you can also
find on wikipedia.

Attila Kinali



___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Can a Symmetricom 58532A antenna and ham radio transmitters coexist?

[Mike Feher]

My HP has been on top of the roof for about 15 years. I have a 2 meter antenna 
not far from it with about 200 watts and on half of a 160 meter inverted vee 
slightly higher above it, running full legal power. Never had an issue. 73 - 
Mike 

Mike B. Feher, EOZ Inc.
89 Arnold Blvd.
Howell, NJ, 07731
732-886-5960 office
908-902-3831 cell

-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces+mfeher=eozinc@febo.com] On Behalf 
Of William H. Fite
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 9:07 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Can a Symmetricom 58532A antenna and ham radio 
transmitters coexist?

Good morning, Pete. My 58532 antenna is about 10 meters away from a UHF/VHF 
vertical through which I run up to 50W and about 25 meters from an HF magnetic 
loop which I feed with up to 500W.

I have had no issues with the Symmetricom antenna or the T'bolt that it feeds.

Bill
KJ4SLP



On Thursday, April 14, 2016, Pete Stephenson  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I recently acquired a pair of Symmetricom 58532A antennas and so far 
> they work great with my setup (antenna --> Symmetricom 58535A splitter
> --> [1] Thunderbolt and [2] other receivers that I swap out
> occasionally).
>
> I'm also an amateur radio operator and am looking to mount the 58532A 
> on a roof-mounted mast to get better coverage (right now it's outside 
> a window). Would the presence of nearby (either on the mast or within 
> 20m of the mast) HF (3.5-30MHz) , VHF (~145MHz), and UHF (~430MHz) 
> transmitters cause any issues? My transmit power is typically around 
> 5-20W on HF with peaks up to 100W and 1-5W on VHF/UHF. The HF antenna 
> is a simple wire dipole, not a high-gain directional antenna.
>
> Naturally, I'd like to avoid damaging my GPS antenna or any of the 
> downstream devices.
>
> Since the 58532A is currently mounted relatively close to the 
> splitter, I'm using LMR100A coax (it's lossy, but the short lengths 
> mean it's not an issue; the window mount makes the thinness of the 
> cable important) but for the longer run from the mast I'd used LMR240 
> or LMR400 as needed. I use the same type of cable for the HF radio.
> Those cables are well-shielded (braid-on-foil) with >90dB shielding 
> attenuation, so I don't think signal leakage from or ingress into the 
> cables will be a big deal.
>
> The datasheet for the 58532A specifies the out-of-band signal 
> attenuation is around 60dB at +/- 50MHz.
>
> Many thanks in advance for the help.
>
> Cheers!
> -Pete
>
> --
> Pete Stephenson

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Can a Symmetricom 58532A antenna and ham radio transmitters coexist?

[Artek Manuals]

Pete

The reality is there are almost two many variables to predict the outcome

1) Proximity of the ham antennas vs the GPS antennas (obviously farther 
away is better)

2) Polarization of the ham antennas may or may not play a role
3) Direction the ham antennas is pointing. Pointing away from the GPS 
antenna is typically better.

4) Power levels , which in your case are modest
5) How "clean" the ham transmitters are (harmonics, spurs etc)
6) a direct harmonic at a  particular VHF/UHF freq  which appears in the 
pass band of the GPS receiver I haven't done the math  but you might 
find you have a problem at 145.60 but not at 146.90 as an example



My guess is your unlikely to have much problem with at least 10' of 
separation between the ham antennas and the GPS. In my prior location  I 
was running a KW on HF and 20-50 watts on VHF/ UHF and 10W on 1296. My 
GPS antenna was on the same tower about 20' below the ham stuff . I had 
two GPS antennas the 58532A and a Motorola ( cant remember the number) 
and I never had a problem YMMV


Dave


On 4/14/2016 5:01 AM, Pete Stephenson wrote:

Hi all,

I recently acquired a pair of Symmetricom 58532A antennas and so far
they work great with my setup (antenna --> Symmetricom 58535A splitter
--> [1] Thunderbolt and [2] other receivers that I swap out
occasionally).

I'm also an amateur radio operator and am looking to mount the 58532A
on a roof-mounted mast to get better coverage (right now it's outside
a window). Would the presence of nearby (either on the mast or within
20m of the mast) HF (3.5-30MHz) , VHF (~145MHz), and UHF (~430MHz)
transmitters cause any issues? My transmit power is typically around
5-20W on HF with peaks up to 100W and 1-5W on VHF/UHF. The HF antenna
is a simple wire dipole, not a high-gain directional antenna.

Naturally, I'd like to avoid damaging my GPS antenna or any of the
downstream devices.

Since the 58532A is currently mounted relatively close to the
splitter, I'm using LMR100A coax (it's lossy, but the short lengths
mean it's not an issue; the window mount makes the thinness of the
cable important) but for the longer run from the mast I'd used LMR240
or LMR400 as needed. I use the same type of cable for the HF radio.
Those cables are well-shielded (braid-on-foil) with >90dB shielding
attenuation, so I don't think signal leakage from or ingress into the
cables will be a big deal.

The datasheet for the 58532A specifies the out-of-band signal
attenuation is around 60dB at +/- 50MHz.

Many thanks in advance for the help.

Cheers!
-Pete




--
Dave
manu...@artekmanuals.com
www.ArtekManuals.com

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Can a Symmetricom 58532A antenna and ham radio transmitters coexist?

[Tim Shoppa]

I have GPS antennas 500 feet directly under my HF antenna running full
legal limit. And GPS OCXO's in the shack just feet away from the legal
limit amplifier. Never ever a problem.

Now my 35-year-old garage door opener... it went bonkers when I got my big
boy amp and used it in a big RTTY contest! My wife came to me shortly after
the contest started and wondered if maybe I had something to do with the
fact the door was going up and down continuously for the past hour. After
the motor and starter cap blew up, I got a brand new garage door opener,
and it does a lot better when I'm transmitting :-).

Tim N3QE

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 5:01 AM, Pete Stephenson  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I recently acquired a pair of Symmetricom 58532A antennas and so far
> they work great with my setup (antenna --> Symmetricom 58535A splitter
> --> [1] Thunderbolt and [2] other receivers that I swap out
> occasionally).
>
> I'm also an amateur radio operator and am looking to mount the 58532A
> on a roof-mounted mast to get better coverage (right now it's outside
> a window). Would the presence of nearby (either on the mast or within
> 20m of the mast) HF (3.5-30MHz) , VHF (~145MHz), and UHF (~430MHz)
> transmitters cause any issues? My transmit power is typically around
> 5-20W on HF with peaks up to 100W and 1-5W on VHF/UHF. The HF antenna
> is a simple wire dipole, not a high-gain directional antenna.
>
> Naturally, I'd like to avoid damaging my GPS antenna or any of the
> downstream devices.
>
> Since the 58532A is currently mounted relatively close to the
> splitter, I'm using LMR100A coax (it's lossy, but the short lengths
> mean it's not an issue; the window mount makes the thinness of the
> cable important) but for the longer run from the mast I'd used LMR240
> or LMR400 as needed. I use the same type of cable for the HF radio.
> Those cables are well-shielded (braid-on-foil) with >90dB shielding
> attenuation, so I don't think signal leakage from or ingress into the
> cables will be a big deal.
>
> The datasheet for the 58532A specifies the out-of-band signal
> attenuation is around 60dB at +/- 50MHz.
>
> Many thanks in advance for the help.
>
> Cheers!
> -Pete
>
> --
> Pete Stephenson
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Can a Symmetricom 58532A antenna and ham radio transmitters coexist?

[William H. Fite]

Good morning, Pete. My 58532 antenna is about 10 meters away from a UHF/VHF
vertical through which I run up to 50W and about 25 meters from an HF
magnetic loop which I feed with up to 500W.

I have had no issues with the Symmetricom antenna or the T'bolt that it
feeds.

Bill
KJ4SLP



On Thursday, April 14, 2016, Pete Stephenson  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I recently acquired a pair of Symmetricom 58532A antennas and so far
> they work great with my setup (antenna --> Symmetricom 58535A splitter
> --> [1] Thunderbolt and [2] other receivers that I swap out
> occasionally).
>
> I'm also an amateur radio operator and am looking to mount the 58532A
> on a roof-mounted mast to get better coverage (right now it's outside
> a window). Would the presence of nearby (either on the mast or within
> 20m of the mast) HF (3.5-30MHz) , VHF (~145MHz), and UHF (~430MHz)
> transmitters cause any issues? My transmit power is typically around
> 5-20W on HF with peaks up to 100W and 1-5W on VHF/UHF. The HF antenna
> is a simple wire dipole, not a high-gain directional antenna.
>
> Naturally, I'd like to avoid damaging my GPS antenna or any of the
> downstream devices.
>
> Since the 58532A is currently mounted relatively close to the
> splitter, I'm using LMR100A coax (it's lossy, but the short lengths
> mean it's not an issue; the window mount makes the thinness of the
> cable important) but for the longer run from the mast I'd used LMR240
> or LMR400 as needed. I use the same type of cable for the HF radio.
> Those cables are well-shielded (braid-on-foil) with >90dB shielding
> attenuation, so I don't think signal leakage from or ingress into the
> cables will be a big deal.
>
> The datasheet for the 58532A specifies the out-of-band signal
> attenuation is around 60dB at +/- 50MHz.
>
> Many thanks in advance for the help.
>
> Cheers!
> -Pete
>
> --
> Pete Stephenson
> ___
> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com 
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.
>


-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Fast risetime pulse generator

[jimlux]

On 4/13/16 7:50 PM, bownes wrote:


Maybe a krytron? If you are able to get one anyway. ;)


that was my first thought.. or some form of triggered sparkgap
Went and looked up the data sheet for a KN6

Their rise time isn't that fast, what sets them apart from other high 
current switching devices is that they are low jitter, while switching 
high currents.  Driving them is a pain (they need moderate high voltage, 
etc.).  Switching hundreds of amps with tens of ns jitter is useful in 
some applications, but in time nuts terms, not so wonderful.








On Apr 13, 2016, at 18:32, David  wrote:


On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 00:03:03 -0500, you wrote:

...

If you are building up something, you probably want a SRD (step
recovery diode) or tunnel diode. But both may be hard to find and
expensive these days.


Step recovery diodes are very similar in construction to varactor
diodes so the later can be used in step recovery applications with
qualification.

I have also seen the 1N4148 used as a step recovery diode when driven
by an avalanche pulser but I do not know if it was qualified.
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.



___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Building a mains frequency monitor

[Attila Kinali]

God middag Magnus,

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 03:38:38 +0200
Magnus Danielson  wrote:

> The professional equipment does it this way. It samples, filters and 
> decimate the data. For the professional use the absolute phase is 
> relevant, so group delay needs to be flat, known an 
> calibrated/compensated. 

Jupp, I am aware of those. But I didn't expect many people here
to know of them :-) I have quite a few friends who work in the
energy distribution busines and its related problems (like network
stability, oscillations of dynamic systems, complexity theory etc)
hence I have a cursory interest in the equipment to monitor power
networks as well. It is intersting to see, that modern power networks
rely more and more on precise timing as well. Even more interesting
is that the primary source for time is GPS these days, with all its
problems. I am not sure whether the desginers of these networks are
fully aware of the security and reliability implications that come
with GPS (or GNSS in general). Maybe i should dig a little bit around
and see what's current common practice in europe.

Attila Kinali
-- 
It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All 
the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no 
use without that foundation.
 -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

[time-nuts] Can a Symmetricom 58532A antenna and ham radio transmitters coexist?

[Pete Stephenson]

Hi all,

I recently acquired a pair of Symmetricom 58532A antennas and so far
they work great with my setup (antenna --> Symmetricom 58535A splitter
--> [1] Thunderbolt and [2] other receivers that I swap out
occasionally).

I'm also an amateur radio operator and am looking to mount the 58532A
on a roof-mounted mast to get better coverage (right now it's outside
a window). Would the presence of nearby (either on the mast or within
20m of the mast) HF (3.5-30MHz) , VHF (~145MHz), and UHF (~430MHz)
transmitters cause any issues? My transmit power is typically around
5-20W on HF with peaks up to 100W and 1-5W on VHF/UHF. The HF antenna
is a simple wire dipole, not a high-gain directional antenna.

Naturally, I'd like to avoid damaging my GPS antenna or any of the
downstream devices.

Since the 58532A is currently mounted relatively close to the
splitter, I'm using LMR100A coax (it's lossy, but the short lengths
mean it's not an issue; the window mount makes the thinness of the
cable important) but for the longer run from the mast I'd used LMR240
or LMR400 as needed. I use the same type of cable for the HF radio.
Those cables are well-shielded (braid-on-foil) with >90dB shielding
attenuation, so I don't think signal leakage from or ingress into the
cables will be a big deal.

The datasheet for the 58532A specifies the out-of-band signal
attenuation is around 60dB at +/- 50MHz.

Many thanks in advance for the help.

Cheers!
-Pete

-- 
Pete Stephenson
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

[time-nuts] ADEV and fractional frequency (was: HP 5360A History?)

[Attila Kinali]

Hoi Jeremy,

On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 16:16:02 -0700
Jeremy Nichols  wrote:

> It would appear that the Allen variance as defined at the bottom of page 
> 4 in TVB's reference to the December 1970 HP Journal (thanks, Tom!) is 
> the same formula as that used for "fractional frequency deviation" in 
> other HP publications on the 5360A. This is helpful to me because I've 
> been tearing my hair out trying to find one reference that equates the two.

Do you mean by "the two" ADEV and fractional frequency? If so,
could you enlighten me where the confusion comes from? Because
the formula you refere to in the HP journal is just a different
way of writing the standard two sample ADEV which you can also
find on wikipedia.

Attila Kinali

-- 
It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All 
the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no 
use without that foundation.
 -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] HP 5360A History?

[Attila Kinali]

Hoi Paul,

On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 14:35:23 -0400
paul swed  wrote:

> They also have a really
> good oven I have 8 of those. That oven and then the counter started me into
> time-nuttery about 1990. Because what on earth would have used this oven?

What made that oven so great? And do you have any pictures?

Attila Kinali

-- 
It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All 
the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no 
use without that foundation.
 -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] Where does the source time for GPS come from?

[Attila Kinali]

On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 08:50:13 -0700
"Richard (Rick) Karlquist"  wrote:

> Also note that there is a division of labor between
> cesium clocks, which run continuously to keep time,
> but may not be as accurate as "big" cesium standards
> in terms of frequency.  However, the big standards
> may not run 24/7 so they function as frequency standards
> as opposed to true clocks.

At our visit at METAS i was told, that the Cs foutain is powerd
up once a week to measure the exact frequency of the H-Maser
and the three 5071's they have.


> There is also the whole issue of "time transfer" among
> all these devices.  The gold standard is 2 way satellite.
> But the everyday method is GPS itself.

The gold standard is actually fibre. With that it's possible
to do sub-ns time transfer and <10^-16 frequency transfer (in a day).
But the longest fibre links are limited to a couple of 1000km. 
Currently, there is a fibre link between Syrte (Paris) and PTB (Braunschweig)
over Strassbourg. It is planned to extend that to NPL (Middlesex)
and to INRIM (Turin). There is also a fibre from PTB to MPI-QP (Munich)
and it's likely that this will be integrated into the above network as well.
In east europe, there are also few fibre links, but these are considerably
shorter and have no interlinks yet (and no planned, as far as i am aware of).

Attila Kinali

-- 
It is upon moral qualities that a society is ultimately founded. All 
the prosperity and technological sophistication in the world is of no 
use without that foundation.
 -- Miss Matheson, The Diamond Age, Neil Stephenson
___
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.