Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor

[Tom Miller]

That article has a major error. Anyone know what it is?



- Original Message - 
From: "Jason Ball" 
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" 


Cc: "Perry Sandeen" 
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor



Even cheaper... Diiode as a cheap sensor ?

https://www.arrow.com/en/research-and-events/articles/using-a-simple-diode-as-a-ballpark-temperature-sensor


On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Bill Hawkins  wrote:


Perrier,

Google finds a Siemens NI1000 sensor that follows the nickel curve.
Nickel is popular in industrial control for cost, but not as accurate as
platinum. Converting the platinum curve to accurate temperatures
requires a second order equation, but has been done with 0.1% analog
converters.

Digi-key has ZNI devices as surface mount parts. Sparse data said
nothing about a platinum curve.

I'm curious because my former employer did very well selling platinum
RTD sensors, usually 100 ohms at the triple point.

Bill Hawkins


-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Perry
Sandeen via time-nuts
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 9:33 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor

List,
A while back there was much discussion about temperature sensors.
One simple inexpensive one to consider would be the ZNI1000Temperature
sensor.
It's 1K ohms at 0C and it replicates the temperature curve of the Pt 1K
ohm sensors.
It's about $3 from Digi-Key.
FWIW YMMY
Regards,
Perrier
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--
--
Teach your kids Science, or somebody else will :/

ja...@ball.net
vk2...@google.com 
callsign: vk2vjb
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Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor

[Jason Ball]

Even cheaper... Diiode as a cheap sensor ?

https://www.arrow.com/en/research-and-events/articles/using-a-simple-diode-as-a-ballpark-temperature-sensor


On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 4:16 PM, Bill Hawkins  wrote:

> Perrier,
>
> Google finds a Siemens NI1000 sensor that follows the nickel curve.
> Nickel is popular in industrial control for cost, but not as accurate as
> platinum. Converting the platinum curve to accurate temperatures
> requires a second order equation, but has been done with 0.1% analog
> converters.
>
> Digi-key has ZNI devices as surface mount parts. Sparse data said
> nothing about a platinum curve.
>
> I'm curious because my former employer did very well selling platinum
> RTD sensors, usually 100 ohms at the triple point.
>
> Bill Hawkins
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Perry
> Sandeen via time-nuts
> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 9:33 PM
> To: time-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor
>
> List,
> A while back there was much discussion about temperature sensors.
> One simple inexpensive one to consider would be the ZNI1000Temperature
> sensor.
> It's 1K ohms at 0C and it replicates the temperature curve of the Pt 1K
> ohm sensors.
> It's about $3 from Digi-Key.
> FWIW YMMY
> Regards,
> Perrier
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>



-- 
--
Teach your kids Science, or somebody else will :/

ja...@ball.net
vk2...@google.com 
callsign: vk2vjb
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Re: [time-nuts] Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum 9390-6000)

[ziggy9+time-nuts]

Due to the stickers, I don’t see anything with MX on it, but I presume you mean 
the ROM. It has 28655-01 and V5.00 on it. The other model number is 26889-81, 
the -x1 kind of implies that it’s TSIP, and from sniffing the GPS traffic in a 
prior exercise, I can confirm that it is. 

> On Jan 16, 2017, at 7:42 PM, Mark Sims  wrote:
> 
> On the chip with the "MX" marking on it,  what f/w version does it show 
> (usually v5.02 or v5.10)?  I have a couple of CM3's configured for TAIP 
> output, but I have the programs for switching them to TSIP or NMEA.
> 
> ---
> 
>> The module is basically a Trimble SveeSix-CM3 and is based on the 25040 
>> board. It’s labeled 26889-81 so is a variant of the standard TSIP part. Can 
>> anyone help with a replacement? Exact replacement would be ideal of course, 
>> but even a standard CM3 would be useful - I’ve done other ‘conversions’ 
>> before. 
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Re: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor

[Bill Hawkins]

Perrier,

Google finds a Siemens NI1000 sensor that follows the nickel curve.
Nickel is popular in industrial control for cost, but not as accurate as
platinum. Converting the platinum curve to accurate temperatures
requires a second order equation, but has been done with 0.1% analog
converters.

Digi-key has ZNI devices as surface mount parts. Sparse data said
nothing about a platinum curve.

I'm curious because my former employer did very well selling platinum
RTD sensors, usually 100 ohms at the triple point.

Bill Hawkins


-Original Message-
From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Perry
Sandeen via time-nuts
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 9:33 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor

List,
A while back there was much discussion about temperature sensors.
One simple inexpensive one to consider would be the ZNI1000Temperature
sensor.
It's 1K ohms at 0C and it replicates the temperature curve of the Pt 1K
ohm sensors.
It's about $3 from Digi-Key.
FWIW YMMY
Regards,
Perrier
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[time-nuts] TICC update?

[Scott Newell]

I see that my credit card has been charged. Is that a hint that the 
TICC project is moving along? Should I start gathering up cables and 
SMA adapters?


--
newell  N5TNL

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[time-nuts] Who has a hm H Maser?

[Perry Sandeen via time-nuts]

 List,
The discussion about building a H Maser has been fascinating however it appears 
that there will be a long time period before the project reaches fruition.
My questions for those that have a H Maser are:

Where and when did you get it and what was the cost?

Exactly what do you have to do to keep it operating?

Lastly where would one look to get a GOOD used H Maser and what would it cost 
(rough guess is fine)?
Regards,
Perrier
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[time-nuts] Low CostTemperature sensor

[Perry Sandeen via time-nuts]

List,
A while back there was much discussion about temperature sensors.
One simple inexpensive one to consider would be the ZNI1000Temperature sensor.
It's 1K ohms at 0C and it replicates the temperature curve of the Pt 1K ohm 
sensors.
It's about $3 from Digi-Key. 
FWIW YMMY
Regards,
Perrier
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[time-nuts] How to create a super Rb standard

[Perry Sandeen via time-nuts]

List
It looks like their is as infinitely small chance of being able to get 5065.
So what can be done with the telco Rb's (mine are analog tuned) to wring the 
best possible performance from them? Sooper Duper power supplies, Peltier (sp) 
cooling modules?
Regards,
Perrier
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[time-nuts] Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum 9390-6000)

[Mark Sims]

On the chip with the "MX" marking on it,  what f/w version does it show 
(usually v5.02 or v5.10)?  I have a couple of CM3's configured for TAIP output, 
but I have the programs for switching them to TSIP or NMEA.

---

> The module is basically a Trimble SveeSix-CM3 and is based on the 25040 
> board. It’s labeled 26889-81 so is a variant of the standard TSIP part. Can 
> anyone help with a replacement? Exact replacement would be ideal of course, 
> but even a standard CM3 would be useful - I’ve done other ‘conversions’ 
> before. 
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Re: [time-nuts] Fluke/Pendulum Counters - Rubidium Timebase

[Magnus Danielson]

Ed,

On 01/16/2017 11:01 PM, Ed Palmer wrote:

I have a Fluke PM6681 counter that just has the basic oscillator.  I was
thinking of upgrading it to the Rubidium timebase.  From the service
manual, it appears to use an LPRO, but there's nothing obvious regarding
heat sinking.  Does anyone have pictures of this installation or, at
least, seen it?  Is there any heat sinking at all?

I realize the firmware won't report it as a PM6681R and there will be a
few non-standard work-arounds required, as well as an auxiliary power
supply (the original needs this as well), but I don't see any
showstoppers here.  Does anyone have any warnings or advice?


Asked the former Fluke/Pendulum service engineer Stefan Ledberg, and 
here is his comments:


The built in Rubidium can use basically any source and have on earlier 
models used a Datum or Efratom LPRO-101 model (no heatsink), and later 
models used Spectratime LPFRS-01 special Heatsink and adapter from DSUB 
to LPRO-equivalent. PSU is added internally that is sharing PCB with the 
output amplifier for the additional 10Mhz output on the rear panel. The 
PSU and output is no longer in production and I doubt there are any left 
at the factory... I can make an inqury if really important, Internally 
10Mhz is connected to a 2 pin header and Source is selected with a 
jumper. however as stated firmware will still claim std or ocxo 
timebase.  However my recommendation is to power a Rubidium timebase 
externally with off the shelf PSU and just feed the PM6681 on "Ext Ref 
in" this will accept most levels of Signal and no fuss needed.


Cheers,
Magnus
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[time-nuts] Fluke/Pendulum Counters - Rubidium Timebase

[Ed Palmer]

I have a Fluke PM6681 counter that just has the basic oscillator.  I was 
thinking of upgrading it to the Rubidium timebase.  From the service 
manual, it appears to use an LPRO, but there's nothing obvious regarding 
heat sinking.  Does anyone have pictures of this installation or, at 
least, seen it?  Is there any heat sinking at all?


I realize the firmware won't report it as a PM6681R and there will be a 
few non-standard work-arounds required, as well as an auxiliary power 
supply (the original needs this as well), but I don't see any 
showstoppers here.  Does anyone have any warnings or advice?


Thanks,
Ed

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Re: [time-nuts] HP 5061A/B Cesium tube conundrum

[paul swed]

Corby thats a heck of a puzzle. I am trying to think about how you could
prove it. I have some thoughts that are not at all well formed. It comes
from my experiments on Frankenstein temp control.

If you could please tell me what you might expect the alternate bridge
resistors to be overall I will look through my various bits to see if there
is anything.

Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 3:58 PM,  wrote:

> I've been doing some work on testing some HP 5061A/B tubes
> and came across something that's not making any sense!
> The R11 and R12 values marked on the tubes for use with the
> new style A11 are supposed to reflect a parallel value
> that is 10X larger than the thermistor reading.
> This to agree with the ratio of the bridge resistors in the
> A11 module.
> For instance a 3112A prefix tube shows values of 3.83K
> and 42.2K. This gives a parallel value of 3.511K which when
> divided by 10 gives 351.1 Ohm. The value marked on the tube
> was 352 Ohm. That all makes sense!
> Now I have three 3232A prefix tubes and they all do not
> reflect this ratio.
> For instance one has values of 51.1K and 5.11K which gives
> 4.65K. This divided by ten gives 465 Ohms. However the
> Thermistor value marked on the tube is 915 Ohms!
> I tested all three tubes and they come up to the proper
> temperature with the thermistor value marked on the tube.
> Did HP make a change to the A11 bridge resistor ratio, and
> if so where did they document it!
> If not and you used the R11 and R12 values you would
> seriously overheat the tube!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Corby
>
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[time-nuts] HP 5061A/B Cesium tube conundrum

[cdelect]

I've been doing some work on testing some HP 5061A/B tubes
and came across something that's not making any sense!
The R11 and R12 values marked on the tubes for use with the 
new style A11 are supposed to reflect a parallel value
that is 10X larger than the thermistor reading.
This to agree with the ratio of the bridge resistors in the 
A11 module.
For instance a 3112A prefix tube shows values of 3.83K
and 42.2K. This gives a parallel value of 3.511K which when 
divided by 10 gives 351.1 Ohm. The value marked on the tube
was 352 Ohm. That all makes sense!
Now I have three 3232A prefix tubes and they all do not 
reflect this ratio.
For instance one has values of 51.1K and 5.11K which gives
4.65K. This divided by ten gives 465 Ohms. However the 
Thermistor value marked on the tube is 915 Ohms!
I tested all three tubes and they come up to the proper
temperature with the thermistor value marked on the tube.
Did HP make a change to the A11 bridge resistor ratio, and
if so where did they document it!
If not and you used the R11 and R12 values you would 
seriously overheat the tube!

Cheers,

Corby

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[time-nuts] Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum 9390-6000

[Mark Sims]

I recently added code to Lady Heather to support up to 10 external com links 
(serial or TCPI/IP).  One is the receiver port,  one will be a TICC,  and two 
are "echo" ports.  One echo port echoes all the raw data sent by the receiver 
and the other does the same thing except the data is formatted as standard NMEA 
sentences.  

One could add the ability to echo out the messages that an SV6 sends and then 
any GPS receiver that works with Heather could emulate an SV6.   You might have 
to add code to send the proper messages out only when the Datum requests them.  
That depends upon how the Datum firmware works.
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Re: [time-nuts] wifi with time sync

[David]

Sonos and I guess their competitors do this by dropping WiFi
compatibility.  They exist on their own network in the same ISM band
so I wonder how well they coexist with WiFi.  Online reports say
poorly under crowded band conditions.

On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 09:50:05 -0500, you wrote:

>Hi
>
>The push behind this is whole house audio. These guys want to be able to set 
>up WiFi
>speakers / mic's all through a home and get proper audio imaging in each room. 
>They likely
>also want to use it to figure out which mic you are talking to using time of 
>arrival. They very 
>much want to do this in real environments (300 WiFi nets in the building). 
>Since they want to
>roll it out that way, it’s got to be cheap and fairly robust. They need their 
>gizmo to work with 
>the infrastructure you already have.
>
>Bob
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Re: [time-nuts] wifi with time sync

[David]

Modern systems are very aggressive about DVFS (dynamic voltage and
frequency scaling) so it would not surprise me at all.  I have run
across this problem on the timescale of one second even on 10 year old
desktop hardware.

On Sun, 15 Jan 2017 09:32:56 -0500, you wrote:

>Hi
>
>I’d be surprised if a laptop running on wall power and doing a variety of low 
>level
>traffic every second is throttling the chip set. It *is* doing something weird 
>and 
>that certainly is one candidate. I’m not quite as concerned with the *why* the 
>bumps 
>occur (though I am curious). I’m more interested in the fact that they are 
>really
>enormous (compared to other delays). How they do microsecond timing with them
>in the mix is the big question. 
>
>Bob
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Re: [time-nuts] Looking for GPS module (Exactime ET6000/Datum 9390-6000)

[ziggy9+time-nuts]

I did see that one, but I am hoping I can procure something that isn't
from an overseas surplus scrapper. If I can't find anything else, then I
guess it's my only choice. Unfortunately, the Heol folks don't have
anything to offer here either. It's not a WNRO problem, as the week and
date are correct. Even if not, that doesn't affect the GPSDO, only the
timecode generation.

Thanks for replying and the eBay pointer.

 On 01/16/2017 02:56 AM, Mike Cook wrote:
> If your friends don’t have a CM3 spare, there is one on eBay item 
> 141712522709. It might be worth pulling the GPS part and testing it stand 
> alone as there have been numerous week number roll over problems surfacing. 
> If that is the case for yours then a replacement gets you nowhere. 
>
>> Le 16 janv. 2017 à 07:32, ziggy9+time-n...@pumpkinbrook.com a écrit :
>>
>> I’ve had an intermittent problem with my ET6000/9390-6000 GPSDO where the 
>> reported error (the FRQ: display on the LCD) initially is OK (low E-12’s) 
>> and then creeps up to the limit (~500), and the tracking and locked LEDs go 
>> out. I’ve spent some time troubleshooting this and it seems confirmed that 
>> the GPS module has finally gone south. I’m asking if anyone has a similar 
>> module tucked away somewhere. 
>>
>> The module is basically a Trimble SveeSix-CM3 and is based on the 25040 
>> board. It’s labeled 26889-81 so is a variant of the standard TSIP part. Can 
>> anyone help with a replacement? Exact replacement would be ideal of course, 
>> but even a standard CM3 would be useful - I’ve done other ‘conversions’ 
>> before. 
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Paul
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> have not got it. »
> George Bernard Shaw
>
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