Re: [time-nuts] Dropbox is cool, but...
I've had similar results with LTSpice, by default it tosses the simulations results to the current working directory. Fortunately, you can tell LTSpice to use a specific temp folder for simulation results. On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 7:42 PM, Didier Juges wrote: > Yes, I noticed that before. > I have a number of tools that don't like running off a Dropbox folder, > including several software development tools for starter. Too many files > opened at the same time. > Don't assume that because it looks like a normal folder, it works like one, > even though for many things, it does work remarkably well. > > On Feb 5, 2017 2:32 PM, "John Ackermann N8UR" wrote: > > > So I was clever and decided to log some PPS data to a folder within my > > "Dropbox" folder. Strange results followed... the whole system just > bogged > > down, and even fairly slow serial data dropped characters. > > > > It turns out that the culprit was the Dropbox daemon continuously trying > > to sync the file as it changed every second. It didn't manifest as CPU > > overload or anything obvious; the problem was apparently thrashing in the > > I/O system. Once I started dumping the data to a "normal" directory, the > > problem went away. (This was on Linux, by the way). > > > > So, a lesson learned -- don't stream unbuffered data, even at a low rate, > > into a sync'd folder! > > > > John > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m > > ailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Dropbox is cool, but...
On 05-Feb-17 16:42, Didier Juges wrote: > Yes, I noticed that before. > I have a number of tools that don't like running off a Dropbox folder, > including several software development tools for starter. Too many files > opened at the same time. > Don't assume that because it looks like a normal folder, it works like one, > even though for many things, it does work remarkably well. In the interest of presenting alternatives -- I dumped Dropbox a while back, due to their increasingly invasive 'privacy' policies. A good alternative for me has been Sync: https://www.sync.com/ Their 'Free' package includes 5GB -- More than I would ever possibly use for an online sharing account. ;-) Keep the peace(es). -- --- Bruce Lane, ARS KC7GR http://www.bluefeathertech.com kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech dot com "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" (Red Green) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] What interrupts aging?
Hi Nothing in life is perfect :) Diffusion of ions in the lattice is one of the more obscure sources of aging. It is maybe number 10 or 15 on the list. The exception to that would be high radiation environments where you have energetic particles trying to knock things around. A similar (but different) effect is the diffusion of the electrode material into the blank. For normal electrodes, that is well past number 20 or so….(and no I don’t have an exact list …) Bob > On Feb 5, 2017, at 7:19 PM, Peter Reilley wrote: > > I am curious: is the quartz in a high quality quartz crystal perfect?That > is; is the > > crystalline lattice perfect, without flaws or impurities? I assume that the > quartz is > > grown in a furnace, can we grow perfect quartz crystals? > > Pete. > > > On 2/5/2017 6:31 PM, Bob Camp wrote: >> Hi >> >> Aging can be caused by many things. Stress on the blank (and can and leads >> and plating and …) is one >> source. There are good reasons to believe that quartz vs metal stress can >> take > 1 month to settle out >> to the 90% level. Particle (think borders down to atoms) equilibrium inside >> the can is another source. >> Adsorption / desorption rates on many of the likely candidates also run out >> into the > 1 month range. >> More or less — you can adsorb stuff in a few seconds that takes many weeks >> to desorb. Yes this is >> only the start of a very long list …. >> >> How long an interruption to stir things up? Does the oven go to full power >> after your interruption? If it >> does, things are likely to get tossed around and aging (or retrace or warmup >> or whatever you want to >> call it) is going to get going. >> >> Pile on top of this the fact that crystals are not the only thing that does >> aging like things. Capacitors >> have a fun characteristic known as dielectric absorption. Some (tantalums) >> have leakage that drops >> a LOT with time spent at temperature and voltage. Either way, bump the >> voltage and things move around >> for a while. Use the wrong caps and it can be quite a while. >> >> Next layer is keeping the OCXO at the same temperature. When a “normal” OCXO >> is sitting there on >> the bench, it’s in it’s own very specific temperate zone. Convection (and >> maybe other things) have acted >> over quite a while to set up that zone. Touch it / bump it / move it / blow >> on it …. you will change the >> temperature. Most likely you will change the gradient across the package. >> Rick wrote some papers >> back in the 90’s about why this really messes things up…. ( Again this is >> the start of a very long list …). >> It’s even longer if you have DAC’s and voltage references external to the >> OCXO. >> >> So yes, you can get aging a lot of ways. Knowing what is and what is not >> aging can get a bit complicated. >> >> Bob >> >> >>> On Feb 5, 2017, at 3:11 PM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote: >>> >>> We know of OCXO that have been continuously running for years and have >>> exceptional aging, supposedly as a result. >>> >>> What does it take to interrupt that? A momentary loss of power? The oven >>> cooling down? Some long period of off-time? Or, once the oscillator has >>> baked in will it return to that low aging once it has been powered up and >>> thermally stabilized? >>> >>> John >>> ___ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> ___ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] What interrupts aging?
I am curious: is the quartz in a high quality quartz crystal perfect? That is; is the crystalline lattice perfect, without flaws or impurities? I assume that the quartz is grown in a furnace, can we grow perfect quartz crystals? Pete. On 2/5/2017 6:31 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Aging can be caused by many things. Stress on the blank (and can and leads and plating and …) is one source. There are good reasons to believe that quartz vs metal stress can take > 1 month to settle out to the 90% level. Particle (think borders down to atoms) equilibrium inside the can is another source. Adsorption / desorption rates on many of the likely candidates also run out into the > 1 month range. More or less — you can adsorb stuff in a few seconds that takes many weeks to desorb. Yes this is only the start of a very long list …. How long an interruption to stir things up? Does the oven go to full power after your interruption? If it does, things are likely to get tossed around and aging (or retrace or warmup or whatever you want to call it) is going to get going. Pile on top of this the fact that crystals are not the only thing that does aging like things. Capacitors have a fun characteristic known as dielectric absorption. Some (tantalums) have leakage that drops a LOT with time spent at temperature and voltage. Either way, bump the voltage and things move around for a while. Use the wrong caps and it can be quite a while. Next layer is keeping the OCXO at the same temperature. When a “normal” OCXO is sitting there on the bench, it’s in it’s own very specific temperate zone. Convection (and maybe other things) have acted over quite a while to set up that zone. Touch it / bump it / move it / blow on it …. you will change the temperature. Most likely you will change the gradient across the package. Rick wrote some papers back in the 90’s about why this really messes things up…. ( Again this is the start of a very long list …). It’s even longer if you have DAC’s and voltage references external to the OCXO. So yes, you can get aging a lot of ways. Knowing what is and what is not aging can get a bit complicated. Bob On Feb 5, 2017, at 3:11 PM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote: We know of OCXO that have been continuously running for years and have exceptional aging, supposedly as a result. What does it take to interrupt that? A momentary loss of power? The oven cooling down? Some long period of off-time? Or, once the oscillator has baked in will it return to that low aging once it has been powered up and thermally stabilized? John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] What to do with a 5061A/5061B with dead NiCds
Hi, These days, NiCd cost us a lot here in Europe as Cadmium is something they want out of the market. Kind of not so nice for health. Still available thought. I avoided loading NiCd into stuff from pure cost. PHK would vote for lead-batteries. I use LIPO(Fe) for portable stuff. Cheers, Magnus On 02/06/2017 01:11 AM, Joseph Gray wrote: I don't know which option would be best, but rebuilding the pack may not be expensive. A rebuilt NiCad pack for a Flukemeter only cost me $12. Fluke charges $120 for a new one. On Feb 5, 2017 4:27 PM, "Skip Withrow" wrote: Hello time-nuts, I have 5061A and 5061B units with the battery option and dead battery packs. My question is what makes the most sense when refurbing these units? 1. Yank the old battery out and just leave it that way. Running the unit on a UPS would preserve the functionality. 2. Replace the pack with a rebuilt NiCd pack. I'm sure Batteries Plus would be happy to do it, but sounds expensive. 3. Replace the pack with a NiMH pack, and really crank down the float current of the 5061. 4. Replace the pack with Li-ion battery. Would be a much smaller battery, but the charging circuit would have to be pitched. Building in a Li-ion charge controller sounds like it could be a project (which I don't necessarily want). 5. Yank the old battery pack and run the 5061 on two 12V batteries with an appropriate power supply/charger (basically a version of #1). Any thoughts on these or other options would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Regards, Skip Withrow ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] What to do with a 5061A/5061B with dead NiCds
it is a "ventilated flooded" battery? 73 if it s a flooded battery it is very easy to fix it On 2/5/2017 3:27 PM, Skip Withrow wrote: Hello time-nuts, I have 5061A and 5061B units with the battery option and dead battery packs. My question is what makes the most sense when refurbing these units? 1. Yank the old battery out and just leave it that way. Running the unit on a UPS would preserve the functionality. 2. Replace the pack with a rebuilt NiCd pack. I'm sure Batteries Plus would be happy to do it, but sounds expensive. 3. Replace the pack with a NiMH pack, and really crank down the float current of the 5061. 4. Replace the pack with Li-ion battery. Would be a much smaller battery, but the charging circuit would have to be pitched. Building in a Li-ion charge controller sounds like it could be a project (which I don't necessarily want). 5. Yank the old battery pack and run the 5061 on two 12V batteries with an appropriate power supply/charger (basically a version of #1). Any thoughts on these or other options would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Regards, Skip Withrow ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2016.0.7998 / Virus Database: 4756/13896 - Release Date: 02/05/17 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] What to do with a 5061A/5061B with dead NiCds
Skip, I've rebuilt the NiCd battery packs with tabbed half D NiCd cells that are about $5 each (with tabs, shipped) and it takes 20 of them and some time to disassemble the pack and solder the new cells together. They will eventually die and you will have to replace them again. The half D NiMH cells I've seen have a larger capacity and noticeable more expensive. I think I would choose to use an external 24 V battery with an attached battery charger as the backup rather than a UPS. Batteries would be cheaper than NiCd's but more 'clumsy' to move and keep the unit powered. The HP 5085A and HP 5089A were designed to take two 12 V SLA batteries and supply the needed charging circuitry and connectors to connect to the unit as a backup. It could be mounted in a common cabinet with the 5061A or B as a 'movable' (not really 'portable') unit. I have a 5085A that serves as backup to two 5061A's each with Opt 001 clocks. The 5085A and 5089A don't show up often on theBay and their original batteries I have not been able to find. I have made some minor modifications and was able to fit two Panasonic LC-X1228AP batteries in the unit. https://na.industrial.panasonic.com/sites/default/pidsa/files/panasonic_vrla_lc-x1228p_lc-x1228ap.pdf Choices 3 and 4 seem like a lot of work, particularly the Li Ion option. I like the idea of the built in NiCd pack in that you can easily (well, it's heavy) move the unit and keep it powered. Good luck. Joe -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Skip Withrow Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2017 5:27 PM To: time-nuts Subject: [time-nuts] What to do with a 5061A/5061B with dead NiCds Hello time-nuts, I have 5061A and 5061B units with the battery option and dead battery packs. My question is what makes the most sense when refurbing these units? 1. Yank the old battery out and just leave it that way. Running the unit on a UPS would preserve the functionality. 2. Replace the pack with a rebuilt NiCd pack. I'm sure Batteries Plus would be happy to do it, but sounds expensive. 3. Replace the pack with a NiMH pack, and really crank down the float current of the 5061. 4. Replace the pack with Li-ion battery. Would be a much smaller battery, but the charging circuit would have to be pitched. Building in a Li-ion charge controller sounds like it could be a project (which I don't necessarily want). 5. Yank the old battery pack and run the 5061 on two 12V batteries with an appropriate power supply/charger (basically a version of #1). Any thoughts on these or other options would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Regards, Skip Withrow ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Dropbox is cool, but...
Yes, I noticed that before. I have a number of tools that don't like running off a Dropbox folder, including several software development tools for starter. Too many files opened at the same time. Don't assume that because it looks like a normal folder, it works like one, even though for many things, it does work remarkably well. On Feb 5, 2017 2:32 PM, "John Ackermann N8UR" wrote: > So I was clever and decided to log some PPS data to a folder within my > "Dropbox" folder. Strange results followed... the whole system just bogged > down, and even fairly slow serial data dropped characters. > > It turns out that the culprit was the Dropbox daemon continuously trying > to sync the file as it changed every second. It didn't manifest as CPU > overload or anything obvious; the problem was apparently thrashing in the > I/O system. Once I started dumping the data to a "normal" directory, the > problem went away. (This was on Linux, by the way). > > So, a lesson learned -- don't stream unbuffered data, even at a low rate, > into a sync'd folder! > > John > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m > ailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] What to do with a 5061A/5061B with dead NiCds
HI Unless you are in a *very* unusual location, put it on a UPS. Bob > On Feb 5, 2017, at 6:27 PM, Skip Withrow wrote: > > Hello time-nuts, > > I have 5061A and 5061B units with the battery option and dead battery > packs. My question is what makes the most sense when refurbing these units? > > 1. Yank the old battery out and just leave it that way. Running the unit > on a UPS would preserve the functionality. > > 2. Replace the pack with a rebuilt NiCd pack. I'm sure Batteries Plus > would be happy to do it, but sounds expensive. > > 3. Replace the pack with a NiMH pack, and really crank down the float > current of the 5061. > > 4. Replace the pack with Li-ion battery. Would be a much smaller battery, > but the charging circuit would have to be pitched. Building in a Li-ion > charge controller sounds like it could be a project (which I don't > necessarily want). > > 5. Yank the old battery pack and run the 5061 on two 12V batteries with an > appropriate power supply/charger (basically a version of #1). > > Any thoughts on these or other options would be appreciated. Thanks in > advance. > > Regards, > Skip Withrow > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] What to do with a 5061A/5061B with dead NiCds
I don't know which option would be best, but rebuilding the pack may not be expensive. A rebuilt NiCad pack for a Flukemeter only cost me $12. Fluke charges $120 for a new one. On Feb 5, 2017 4:27 PM, "Skip Withrow" wrote: > Hello time-nuts, > > I have 5061A and 5061B units with the battery option and dead battery > packs. My question is what makes the most sense when refurbing these > units? > > 1. Yank the old battery out and just leave it that way. Running the unit > on a UPS would preserve the functionality. > > 2. Replace the pack with a rebuilt NiCd pack. I'm sure Batteries Plus > would be happy to do it, but sounds expensive. > > 3. Replace the pack with a NiMH pack, and really crank down the float > current of the 5061. > > 4. Replace the pack with Li-ion battery. Would be a much smaller battery, > but the charging circuit would have to be pitched. Building in a Li-ion > charge controller sounds like it could be a project (which I don't > necessarily want). > > 5. Yank the old battery pack and run the 5061 on two 12V batteries with an > appropriate power supply/charger (basically a version of #1). > > Any thoughts on these or other options would be appreciated. Thanks in > advance. > > Regards, > Skip Withrow > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] What interrupts aging?
John wrote: We know of OCXO that have been continuously running for years and have exceptional aging, supposedly as a result. What does it take to interrupt that? A momentary loss of power? The oven cooling down? Some long period of off-time? Or, once the oscillator has baked in will it return to that low aging once it has been powered up and thermally stabilized? Short answer -- it all depends. But it usually takes much less than you'd expect. In my experience, supported by experimentation and by research into published and credible anecdotal sources, the aging of quartz oscillators often changes with little provocation (and in some cases, none at all that one can tell from external observations). Sufficient provocaton can include the oven cooling down, trimming the frequency, physical shock (not necessarily very much -- sometimes just moving the OCXO from one place to another and setting it down pretty gently), or even a short loss of power. In short, *any* electrical or physical disturbance. The effects can range from a short period of settling with an asymptotic slope back to the neighborhood of the previously-established aging rate, all the way to beginning a completely new aging regime. Not infrequently, even the sign of the aging rate changes. Further, any given oscillator can react differently each time it is disturbed -- an oscillator that previously settled quickly back to the neighborhood of the previously-established aging may start a whole new aging regime the next time it is disturbed. That said, OCXOs may exhibit trends, behaving at least somewhat consistently from one electrical disturbance to another (their reactions to physical disturbances are always less consistent, IME). Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] What interrupts aging?
Hi Aging can be caused by many things. Stress on the blank (and can and leads and plating and …) is one source. There are good reasons to believe that quartz vs metal stress can take > 1 month to settle out to the 90% level. Particle (think borders down to atoms) equilibrium inside the can is another source. Adsorption / desorption rates on many of the likely candidates also run out into the > 1 month range. More or less — you can adsorb stuff in a few seconds that takes many weeks to desorb. Yes this is only the start of a very long list …. How long an interruption to stir things up? Does the oven go to full power after your interruption? If it does, things are likely to get tossed around and aging (or retrace or warmup or whatever you want to call it) is going to get going. Pile on top of this the fact that crystals are not the only thing that does aging like things. Capacitors have a fun characteristic known as dielectric absorption. Some (tantalums) have leakage that drops a LOT with time spent at temperature and voltage. Either way, bump the voltage and things move around for a while. Use the wrong caps and it can be quite a while. Next layer is keeping the OCXO at the same temperature. When a “normal” OCXO is sitting there on the bench, it’s in it’s own very specific temperate zone. Convection (and maybe other things) have acted over quite a while to set up that zone. Touch it / bump it / move it / blow on it …. you will change the temperature. Most likely you will change the gradient across the package. Rick wrote some papers back in the 90’s about why this really messes things up…. ( Again this is the start of a very long list …). It’s even longer if you have DAC’s and voltage references external to the OCXO. So yes, you can get aging a lot of ways. Knowing what is and what is not aging can get a bit complicated. Bob > On Feb 5, 2017, at 3:11 PM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote: > > We know of OCXO that have been continuously running for years and have > exceptional aging, supposedly as a result. > > What does it take to interrupt that? A momentary loss of power? The oven > cooling down? Some long period of off-time? Or, once the oscillator has > baked in will it return to that low aging once it has been powered up and > thermally stabilized? > > John > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] What to do with a 5061A/5061B with dead NiCds
Hello time-nuts, I have 5061A and 5061B units with the battery option and dead battery packs. My question is what makes the most sense when refurbing these units? 1. Yank the old battery out and just leave it that way. Running the unit on a UPS would preserve the functionality. 2. Replace the pack with a rebuilt NiCd pack. I'm sure Batteries Plus would be happy to do it, but sounds expensive. 3. Replace the pack with a NiMH pack, and really crank down the float current of the 5061. 4. Replace the pack with Li-ion battery. Would be a much smaller battery, but the charging circuit would have to be pitched. Building in a Li-ion charge controller sounds like it could be a project (which I don't necessarily want). 5. Yank the old battery pack and run the 5061 on two 12V batteries with an appropriate power supply/charger (basically a version of #1). Any thoughts on these or other options would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Regards, Skip Withrow ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Dropbox is cool, but...
Yep, I can see where that would be an issue Use an un-synced directory/folder and them back up to dropbox off-air if required... :) __ Clay Autery, KY5G MONTAC Enterprises (318) 518-1389 On 2/5/2017 2:17 PM, John Ackermann N8UR wrote: > So I was clever and decided to log some PPS data to a folder within my > "Dropbox" folder. Strange results followed... the whole system just > bogged down, and even fairly slow serial data dropped characters. > > It turns out that the culprit was the Dropbox daemon continuously > trying to sync the file as it changed every second. It didn't > manifest as CPU overload or anything obvious; the problem was > apparently thrashing in the I/O system. Once I started dumping the > data to a "normal" directory, the problem went away. (This was on > Linux, by the way). > > So, a lesson learned -- don't stream unbuffered data, even at a low > rate, into a sync'd folder! > > John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] What interrupts aging?
Hi John, My experience, which is far from scientific, is that any disturbance to the Trimbles I use is like a slap in the face. It can be just a momentary power loss or a large change in the EFC. After either of these events, it goes into some period of retrace before it settles back down. The longer the time or the bigger the EFC excursion, the longer it takes to settle back down. But, as mentioned, I haven't done any real tests to measure the impacts. Bob - AE6RV.com GFS GPSDO list: groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/GFS-GPSDOs/info From: John Ackermann N8UR To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2017 2:11 PM Subject: [time-nuts] What interrupts aging? We know of OCXO that have been continuously running for years and have exceptional aging, supposedly as a result. What does it take to interrupt that? A momentary loss of power? The oven cooling down? Some long period of off-time? Or, once the oscillator has baked in will it return to that low aging once it has been powered up and thermally stabilized? John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] What interrupts aging?
We know of OCXO that have been continuously running for years and have exceptional aging, supposedly as a result. What does it take to interrupt that? A momentary loss of power? The oven cooling down? Some long period of off-time? Or, once the oscillator has baked in will it return to that low aging once it has been powered up and thermally stabilized? John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Dropbox is cool, but...
So I was clever and decided to log some PPS data to a folder within my "Dropbox" folder. Strange results followed... the whole system just bogged down, and even fairly slow serial data dropped characters. It turns out that the culprit was the Dropbox daemon continuously trying to sync the file as it changed every second. It didn't manifest as CPU overload or anything obvious; the problem was apparently thrashing in the I/O system. Once I started dumping the data to a "normal" directory, the problem went away. (This was on Linux, by the way). So, a lesson learned -- don't stream unbuffered data, even at a low rate, into a sync'd folder! John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Power Problems Lucent KS-24361, L101 & L102
To add in some small manner to what Bob Camp said: IIRC, the input is polarity protected by a diode or two. I think the input to the brick is floated; i.e. neither of the two power leads is connected to ground. The brick can be disassembled, if you're careful. The components, except for the transformers are pretty standard stuff. On one of my units, I had a blown cap and diode. It is SMT, though, so you'd need expertise in working with that. I find it hard to believe that the brick was blown, though. Have you verified that you're powering the correct pins? Bob From: Bob Camp To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Sent: Sunday, February 5, 2017 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Power Problems Lucent KS-24361, L101 & L102 Hi The power “brick” is a pretty standard Lucent part. The show up from time to time on the surplus market. The gotcha is that you may be able to buy a KS box for less than the asking price for the power brick. There are no schematics on these devices other than what some people have traced out here and there. The input to the power brick is simple enough that it’s probably worth simply tracing out on the board. That will involve pulling the board completely out of the chassis (which is a pain). Once it’s out, some quick ohm meter checks between the power inputs and the labeled pins on the power converter will give you a pretty good idea of what goes where. There *might* be a pc board mounted fuse on there somewhere …. Bob > On Feb 4, 2017, at 8:54 PM, Roland Wm Buzz Ude wrote: > > I,m brand new to this forum. I need your help. While powering up a KS-24361 > set of units for the first time, my power plug for P1 was wired incorrectly!. > Pin one (P1) was plus 24 VDC; Pin three (P1) minus 24 VDC--this > should have been pin two Tried same connection on both L101 and L102, no > activity of any kind. Where does pin three (P1) connect. I may have trashed > both units. Are schematics available. Thanks W8BUZ > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] information about the Austron Synchronous Filter 2090A
In message , Ruslan Nabioullin writes: >On 02/05/2017 02:58 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >> I belive [sic] the idea is that if you have two Loran-C receivers >> tracking two different GRIs, the 2090A can blank out the strongest >> stations [sic] pulses for the weaker chains [sic] receiver. > >So it functions sort of as a preselector, one whose universe of >discourse is LORAN-C, for improved reception performance of the receiver >tracking the weaker GRI? I belive so, yes, but this is based on my reading of the meagre references in the manuals I've seen. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] information about the Austron Synchronous Filter 2090A
Hi Best guess - it was intended for use in close proximity to a Loran chain transmit site. The Austron Loran receivers only had about a 100 db dynamic range. If you needed to operate close to a transmitter … that’s not enough. Bob > On Feb 5, 2017, at 3:20 AM, Ruslan Nabioullin wrote: > > On 02/05/2017 02:58 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: >> I belive [sic] the idea is that if you have two Loran-C receivers >> tracking two different GRIs, the 2090A can blank out the strongest >> stations [sic] pulses for the weaker chains [sic] receiver. > > So it functions sort of as a preselector, one whose universe of > discourse is LORAN-C, for improved reception performance of the receiver > tracking the weaker GRI? > > -Ruslan > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Power Problems Lucent KS-24361, L101 & L102
See https://www.febo.com/pipermail/time-nuts/2014-October/087670.html Pin 1 is Plus, pin 2 is Minus to an isolated power supply. All other pins have no connection. Hence, no damage. Schematics are not available, but many people have discovered what it takes to make them work. Time nuts is an adventure, but it's best to check the pipermail/time-nuts archive for previous work. Good fortune on your quest for knowledge. Bill Hawkins ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Power Problems Lucent KS-24361, L101 & L102
There's a surface-mount fuse on the back of the board. But pin 3 seems to show no leakage to other pins. I'd be surprised if connecting it has caused any damage. Have you tried reconnecting it correctly ? On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > The power “brick” is a pretty standard Lucent part. The show up from time > to time > on the surplus market. The gotcha is that you may be able to buy a KS box > for less > than the asking price for the power brick. > > There are no schematics on these devices other than what some people have > traced > out here and there. The input to the power brick is simple enough that > it’s probably > worth simply tracing out on the board. That will involve pulling the board > completely > out of the chassis (which is a pain). Once it’s out, some quick ohm meter > checks between > the power inputs and the labeled pins on the power converter will give you > a pretty > good idea of what goes where. There *might* be a pc board mounted fuse on > there > somewhere …. > > Bob > > > On Feb 4, 2017, at 8:54 PM, Roland Wm Buzz Ude > wrote: > > > > I,m brand new to this forum. I need your help. While powering up a > KS-24361 set of units for the first time, my power plug for P1 was wired > incorrectly!. Pin one (P1) was plus 24 VDC; Pin three (P1) minus 24 > VDC--this > > should have been pin two Tried same connection on both L101 and L102, no > activity of any kind. Where does pin three (P1) connect. I may have trashed > both units. Are schematics available. Thanks W8BUZ > > > > --- > > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > ___ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Power Problems Lucent KS-24361, L101 & L102
Hi The power “brick” is a pretty standard Lucent part. The show up from time to time on the surplus market. The gotcha is that you may be able to buy a KS box for less than the asking price for the power brick. There are no schematics on these devices other than what some people have traced out here and there. The input to the power brick is simple enough that it’s probably worth simply tracing out on the board. That will involve pulling the board completely out of the chassis (which is a pain). Once it’s out, some quick ohm meter checks between the power inputs and the labeled pins on the power converter will give you a pretty good idea of what goes where. There *might* be a pc board mounted fuse on there somewhere …. Bob > On Feb 4, 2017, at 8:54 PM, Roland Wm Buzz Ude wrote: > > I,m brand new to this forum. I need your help. While powering up a KS-24361 > set of units for the first time, my power plug for P1 was wired incorrectly!. > Pin one (P1) was plus 24 VDC; Pin three (P1) minus 24 VDC--this > should have been pin two Tried same connection on both L101 and L102, no > activity of any kind. Where does pin three (P1) connect. I may have trashed > both units. Are schematics available. Thanks W8BUZ > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] information about the Austron Synchronous Filter 2090A
On 02/05/2017 02:58 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: I belive [sic] the idea is that if you have two Loran-C receivers tracking two different GRIs, the 2090A can blank out the strongest stations [sic] pulses for the weaker chains [sic] receiver. So it functions sort of as a preselector, one whose universe of discourse is LORAN-C, for improved reception performance of the receiver tracking the weaker GRI? -Ruslan ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Power Problems Lucent KS-24361, L101 & L102
Am 05.02.2017 um 04:29 schrieb Hal Murray: b...@baylorhill.com said: Where does pin three (P1) connect. I may have trashed both units. Are schematics available. I don't know of any schematics. I would take it apart and see if anything is connected to any of the other pins on those connectors. Or measure the resistance from the outside. I also know of no schematics, but I took some photos when I made the 10 MHz output and the distribution amplifier for mine. The power input seems quite simple. Everything goes straight into the DC/DC converter. Probably the input is not referenced to ground. There are just some chokes and a reservoir capacitor. There is a diode, too. It looks too weak for use as a crowbar or as a series diode. < https://www.flickr.com/photos/137684711@N07/31906174553/in/album-72157662535945536/ > (GPS board removed) regards, Gerhard ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] eLoran test 6 Feb for almost 2 months
Hi For NTP grade timing, there are still a lot of broadcast sources out there. You *do* need to be careful about propagation and when to (not) use them during the day. Focusing effort on that part of it is probably more useful than waiting for funding to appear for eLoran…. Bob > On Feb 4, 2017, at 11:51 PM, Ruslan Nabioullin wrote: > > On 02/03/2017 10:02 AM, paul swed wrote: >> Ruslan >> NH will be easy to pick it up. The core frequency is 3 Cesiums in a >> cluster. As for time transfer it can but its really a pain in the >> backend and that information is indeed in the data channel. So make >> us jealous with your CS and RBs. :-) I am down in Franklin Ma so we >> are actually close compared to others. > > I'm actually jealous of your LORAN time/frequency metrology capability :). > Apparently UrsaNav (headquartered locally in North Billerica, MA!) are the > ones performing these particular aforementioned R&D efforts; I have visited > their corporate website and have read about their projects and product > portfolio, and have developed a liking for this company (despite being > anarchosocialist). The reason is that philosophically I'm a strong advocate > of resilient technology and social policies, and consequently that is the > entire purpose of my nonprofit time/frequency metrology and transfer project. > As an example, the redundant timekeeping and NTP transfer minicomputers will > be provided with 7--10 WWV and CHU channels received with redundant > auto-failover HF antennae, just in case some channels fail (and that is in > addition to redundant GPS and of course the set of redundant UPS-, solar-, > and generator-backed standards, which hopefully will grow to there being a > fused ensemble of two moder n Cs standards at any one time, rather than the current scheme of the VXI-based controller simply running one at a time in an auto-failover configuration). > > -Ruslan > ___ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] re.Eloran test
Fyi if anyone cares, I have no trouble receiving WildWood NJ. here in northern Indiana, on my FS700s, Austron 2100Fs and Icom IC-725 et.al.. Using a Burhans design active antenna with an eight foot whip, easy S9 signals when they're running. I just can hardly wait until they bring Dana IN. on line someday! Rich W9ENG ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] information about the Austron Synchronous Filter 2090A
In message <7fe92930-931a-e086-4e96-a4dcb359e...@gmail.com>, Ruslan Nabioullin writes: >Hi, any ideas on what the Austron Synchronous Filter 2090A is for? I belive the idea is that if you have two Loran-C receivers tracking two different GRIs, the 2090A can blank out the strongest stations pulses for the weaker chains receiver. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
