Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Thunderbolt error
i am located in switzerland. i checked tonight's log of my lucent ks-24361. it had perfect satellite reception during the whole night. but: i stopped logging a TI-measurement this morning because it was messed up. the reference is a Miller Simple GPSDO, the DUT a decently stable rubidium oscillator. the plot clearly shows that the gpsdo went into holdover twice (strong frequency drift), starting at about 1 UTC (no time stamps unfortunately). it locked the second time about 85 minutes later and is fine since then. hans ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ultra High Stability Time Base Options for 53132A
during the last days i ran a few tests with different high stability options. setup: channel 1: thunderbolt 10 mhz divided down to 1 pps channel 2: trimble 73090 DOCXO 10 MHz divided down to 1 pps. frequency offset about 7e-9 internal time bases: no additional time base; morion mv89a; trimble 34310-t external time bases: no external time base; thunderbolt 10 mhz tapr distribution amplifier, tapr frequency dividers strong temperature swings in the attic, about 10°C, thunderbolt not protected, trimble 73090 (channel 2) in box with a lot of small water containers. internal time base: NO high stability time base, external time base: NONE adev: https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8742/17196609681_53937b7e5d_b.jpg spectral density: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7688/17197584451_50e359e46f_b.jpg internal time base: NO high stability time base, external time base: thunderbolt 10 mhz adev: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7587/16997478560_1a422eb0f2_b.jpg spectral density: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7604/17159258816_743ba1f83a_b.jpg internal time base: morion mv89a, external time base: NONE adev: https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8802/16962399320_908fea406c_b.jpg spectral density: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5349/16565001513_e3f47482e6_b.jpg internal time base: morion mv89a, external time base: thunderbolt 10 mhz adev: https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8774/16949313140_29937eb5d6_b.jpg spectral density: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5346/17159259246_eb20993753_b.jpg internal time base: trimble 34310-t, external time base: NONE adev: https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8816/17232552925_4f4e9bc267_b.jpg spectral density: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7644/17044785268_bdb5b2fa97_b.jpg internal time base: trimble 34310-t, external time base: thunderbolt 10 mhz adev: https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8784/16602405264_41fefbed43_b.jpg spectral density: https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8710/16604641953_de800d9769_b.jpg more plots (phase and autocorrelation samples) at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/olmstead/collections/72157651929343312/ looking at the ps plots: it seems to be a good idea not to use a high stability time base if an external time base like a thunderbolt is plugged to the counter. both external and internal time bases seem to add a lot of spurs to the power spectrum, at least in my setup with my gear. ugliest combination is a morion high stability time base AND an external time base. best regards, hans ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ultra High Stability Time Base Options for 53132A
i have a 53132A and the the time base from the polish seller as well as a time base from gerry sweeny (UK) who uses a trimble 34310-T instead of the morion ocxo. both are plug and play and can be easily calibrated. i have no data, but if i remember correctly, the presence of a high stability time base degrades the measured short term stability of any DUT, if i use an external reference such as a gpsdo. if you are interested i could do the following: measure TI between a trimble thunderbolt and a trimble 73090 docxo that has been running for several weeks 1. without external reference: no high stability time base, morion time base, trimble time base 2. the same, but with an external reference (TB). that will take some time. but i am intersted in this myself, so i could give it a try. hans ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PRS10 Rubidium
hi jürg, dispite the fact that my prs-10 has been up and running for only about 2 years (according to FC!?), the lamp assembly looks pretty ugly (see picture) as if it was overheated quite a bit. i bought the unit from ebay, so i have no idea under what conditions it had spent its life before i got it. the unit works, but the frequency is not as stable as i expected. https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8652/16589402796_3a2e1e66c9_o.jpg in my opinion the breakout board should work with your second unit. but you have to enable the pps PLL (instruction is: PL1). check the manual, page 33 ff., also to set the time constant. regards, hans Fellow time nuts. I have two SRS PRS10 Rb’s that I did purchase 10 years ago. Both have been working for the last nine years. One did fail last year and I finally got around to looking at it in the last two weeks. The attached picture shows the trauma to the lamp board. I do not understand the corrosion since it has been in a very controlled environment in my basement. Since the failed unit does have the 1 pps loop control I moved the processor board to the still working unit. Did not work. Does it take more than just moving that one board to get 1 pps loop control? Second any ideas as to what may have happened to the lamp heater board. Any recommendations? Plan on making a replacement board. Have a power FET MRF134 Thanks ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] GPS leap second pending (Fury/Z38XX)
true, this depends on the definition of pending. however, i found it a bit odd that the software reports a scheduled (but not pending this month) leap second on july 1st. it's june 30 that is 86401 seconds long, not the day after. in my opinion there is nothing between june 30 and july 1 that lasts 1 second. but in the meantime it dawned on me that maybe the leap second date respects my time zone (CET; UTC + 1). and indeed, as soon as i change ptim:tzone from 1 to 0, the reported leap second date is june 30! hans Well, Said can tell us for sure (since he owns the firmware in the Fury) but you could call this is correct, because: 1) a leap second is not pending this month 2) the current leap second count is still 16 3) the next leap second happen between 2015-06-30 and 2015-07-01 4) the current month ends with a 60 second minute Check again after June 1st. /tvb (i5s) On Jan 25, 2015, at 3:54 AM, Hans Holzach hans.holzach at gmail.com wrote: my jackson labs fury (1.22) reports: leapsecond pending: 0 leapsecond accumulated: 16 leapsecond date: 2015,7,1 leapsecond duration: 60 strange... hans ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] GPS leap second pending (Fury/Z38XX)
my jackson labs fury (1.22) reports: leapsecond pending: 0 leapsecond accumulated: 16 leapsecond date: 2015,7,1 leapsecond duration: 60 strange... hans ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] TDS12 (AKA PRS10) use indication.
mike, i have a prs-10, software version 3.15, serial number 5351. default lock mode is 1, default time offset is 0. the fc values have been written to the EEPROM twice in the last 20 hours. fc!? returns 233,1426,1640,1647. hans I have a SR TDS12 which apart from name appears to be a PRS10. The ID string indicates PRS10 and the firmware version is the same as on another PRS10 that I have. The only differences that I could see at first power up is the that default config has Lock Mode 2 as opposed to the normal default of 1, and a zero time offset. As I didn’t get my PRS10 new, I do not know if that is normally calibrated when new. Anyhow, it works a charm with unlocked frequency stability in spec. It has a date code of 03 2004 and that and the S/N are newer than the PRS10. Both have firmware version 3.24. The user manual indicates that the FC!? command returns a power cycle count and EEPROM update count in addition to the frequency control values. The FC!? Command may be used to read the value which is stored in the EEPROM. The value stored in EEPROM is used to set the 10 MHz at startup, before the FLL can be established. Occasionally while the unit is operating (at about 20 minutes after power-on and once a day there after) the program will write a new value to EEPROM to correct the value for crystal aging. Example: FC!? will return four values (separated by commas), the number of power cycles the unit has undergone, the number of times the FC pair has been written to EEPROM, and the value of the FC pair (high, low) which is used at turn-on and restart. The same text is in the user manuals V1.1 to the latest, v1.4. I had only just noticed this as while I was finding out how to set the TO value. So I used the count to calculate a rough powered on time. It came to about 12 years which although longish is well within the expected lifetime. I started to track it and found that it is not updated daily as per the manual, but systemtically twice a day. That of course halves the usage time. Unfortunately I have not been able yet to see what my PRS10’s values are as I am still fiddling with the TDS12. So: Can anyone with PRS10s on the bench tell me if they see the same behavior ? Thx ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361; resolution TI 10 ns only?
i noticed that the resolution of the PPS TI relative to GPS is 10 ns. is there a scpi command to get a better resolution? a few trivial observations: my boxes have been up and running for a few days only, but they seem to behave pretty well. however, a few things kept me busy for a while: i plugged the data cable into the diagnostic port of unit 0 because it is the one that is on, while unit 1 is in stand-by mode. new values for the cable delay, the elevation mask and the position were accepted and could be queried, but they were not visible on the status screen and had no effect (e.g. sats below the new angle were still used). only when i plugged the cable into the diagnostic port of unit 1 (in stand-by) the new values were accepted, displayed, and used. i find this behaviour rather strange... communication can be speeded up a bit by selecting 19200 baud instead of the default 9600 baud. i prefer UTC time displayed over GPS time. while it was possible to switch to UTC time, it was not displayed in the status window. it was necessary to power cycle (!) the units to see UTC time. the units work nicely with GPSCon, even on my mac with CrossOver. without all the information available on this list (and in the 58503 manual) i would never have been able to bring these boxes to life. many thanks to the list! hans ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Price of LTE Lite GPSDO vs Trimble Thunderbolt.
living in switzerland, i have encountered that problem several times. ebay blocks pages from certain sellers for reasons i do not know. a good seller from china, just as an example, does not show up when i use firefeox to access ebay. same with said's pages. i recommend using the TorBrowser. it veils your identity and you see all those hidden pages and stores on ebay, including said's lte gpsdo. i don't think it has anything to do with the wording. or nazi-stuff... this direct link may work as well: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xlte+gpsdo_nkw=lte+gpsdo_sacat=0 hans Said I read through the description carefully .I suggest you request a refund from eBay for their use of incompetant computer translation which fails to recognise English technical words and phases, so blocking your paid for posting. The trigger can only be due to a stupid word selection in translation. I can see no English (or American :-)) ) word that could be responsible. Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: S. Jackson via time-nuts time-nuts at febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts To: sylvainr at netcourrier.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts; time-nuts at febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 9:02 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Price of LTE Lite GPSDO vs Trimble Thunderbolt. / Hello Mr Richard, // // that's a first! While I lived in Germany for almost 2 decades, I am not // sure what other connection the listing could have to Nazi propaganda??! // // If anyone has any suggestions how to reword the listing I would love to // hear them. // // For now, can you use a proxy server to get access to the site? Don't we // just love internet censorship. // // Bye, // Said // // // In a message dated 10/18/2014 12:35:27 Pacific Daylight Time: // // Mr Jackson, // // May I suggest you rewrite the eBay description for the LTE-Lite. As it // stands, it triggers the anti-nazi filters that block some items from // being displayed in France possibly some other countries (at least // Germany and Austria): // Unfortunately, access to this particular item has been blocked due to // legal restrictions in some countries. We are blocking your viewing in // an effort to prevent restricted items from being displayed. // Regrettably, in some cases, we may prevent users from accessing items // that are not within the scope of said restrictions because of // limitations of existing technology. Please accept our apologies for // any inconvenience this may cause, and we hope you may find other items // of interest on eBay. // // Best regards, // // Sylvain RICHARD/ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Price of LTE Lite GPSDO vs Trimble Thunderbolt.
nope, sorry, link does not work... but these should: 20 mhz: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LTE-Lite-GPSDO-Evaluation-Kit-with-20MHz-TCXO-/171504586548?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item27ee784f34 10 mhz: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LTE-Lite-GPSDO-Evaluation-Kit-with-10MHz-TCXO-/171504585820?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item27ee784c5c 19.2 mhz: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LTE-Lite-GPSDO-Evaluation-Kit-with-19-2MHz-TCXO-/171504588307?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item27ee785613 best regards, hans living in switzerland, i have encountered that problem several times. ebay blocks pages from certain sellers for reasons i do not know. a good seller from china, just as an example, does not show up when i use firefeox to access ebay. same with said's pages. i recommend using the TorBrowser. it veils your identity and you see all those hidden pages and stores on ebay, including said's lte gpsdo. i don't think it has anything to do with the wording. or nazi-stuff... this direct link may work as well:http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xlte+gpsdo_nkw=lte+gpsdo_sacat=0 hans Said I read through the description carefully .I suggest you request a refund from eBay for their use of incompetant computer translation which fails to recognise English technical words and phases, so blocking your paid for posting. The trigger can only be due to a stupid word selection in translation. I can see no English (or American :-)) ) word that could be responsible. Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: S. Jackson via time-nuts time-nuts at febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts To: sylvainr at netcourrier.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts; time-nuts at febo.com https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 9:02 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Price of LTE Lite GPSDO vs Trimble Thunderbolt. // Hello Mr Richard, /// // that's a first! While I lived in Germany for almost 2 decades, I am not // sure what other connection the listing could have to Nazi propaganda??! // // If anyone has any suggestions how to reword the listing I would love to // hear them. // // For now, can you use a proxy server to get access to the site? Don't we // just love internet censorship. // // Bye, // Said // // // In a message dated 10/18/2014 12:35:27 Pacific Daylight Time: // // Mr Jackson, // // May I suggest you rewrite the eBay description for the LTE-Lite. As it // stands, it triggers the anti-nazi filters that block some items from // being displayed in France possibly some other countries (at least // Germany and Austria): // Unfortunately, access to this particular item has been blocked due to // legal restrictions in some countries. We are blocking your viewing in // an effort to prevent restricted items from being displayed. // Regrettably, in some cases, we may prevent users from accessing items // that are not within the scope of said restrictions because of // limitations of existing technology. Please accept our apologies for // any inconvenience this may cause, and we hope you may find other items // of interest on eBay. // // Best regards, // // Sylvain RICHARD/ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ublox 7
bert, and how, please, are us newbies and dabblers supposed to learn from you, the elite time-nuts, when you keep your discoveries secret, only accessible to a group of hand-picked individuals? of course, this is a free world, and you, like everybody, is free to share or not to share your knowledge. however, this is my place to learn, and you don't do me a favour by saying goodbye to the group. why not share your knowledge here, ignore the silly questions of the not so bright, but give them the opportunity to follow your discussions with the ones that are on a par with you? that i'd appreciate very much! hans ...because the deterioration of the list has resulted in many on the real time nuts have gone away and do like we do every thing off list since this has deteriorated in to a chat room with the majority of the listings not time or frequency related. Serious time nuts can contact me off list and maybe be added to the group. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Influence of Cycle Wraps on TInt-Measurements with53132A
hi tom, thank you very much! that is quite interesting. i am happy to learn that there is nothing wrong with *my* counter! converting the non-linearity effect into a correction table is beyond my abilities, but simply knowing that this effect is inherent to the 53132a counter helps a lot. indeed, my plots look similar to yours. after only three hours of warming up i measured the TI of an HP 10811 against the 1 pps output of my fury. the 10 mhz output of the fury was used as the external timebase of the counter. the raw data of one hour measuring. average period of cycle wraps is 93.3 s: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7314/14076566541_79094d6850_o.png steps and drift removed (detail): https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7348/14079753105_f8ac97766d_o.png autocorrelated. the average distance between two peaks is 94.6 s: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5518/14056659576_703b446cc2_o.png as expected, the pattern is also visible in the ADEV plot (overlapping, all tau): https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7382/14079754735_62d70d1480_o.png and even better a few hours later (shorter period of cycle wraps): https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7042/14079754345_b4b6f9afb8_o.png but almost invisible in the standard ADEV plot: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5474/13893141107_5aa39eb199_o.png hans Hi Hans, See if your plots look like approximately like these: http://leapsecond.com/pages/53132/2324.gif http://leapsecond.com/pages/53132/4099.gif I did this as part of a week-long 51132A TIC resolution and linearity test. I believe this is evidence of interpolator non-linearity within the 53132 counter. It happens on each 53132 counter I tested although each has its own unique pattern. See, for example: http://leapsecond.com/pages/53132/all7-phase.gif http://leapsecond.com/pages/53132/all7-tdev.gif There may be input signal conditioning, cross-talk, and DUT pulling effects too. I haven't sorted it all out yet. Note the counters all meet spec. But under the spec is this very interesting world of interpolator non-linearity. It is exposed any time you very slowly ramp through the interpolator range, or if you apply pure noise and look at the distribution of all the bin's (histogram). So these subtle, periodic effects are expected in any interpolator design, but it is cool to actually see and measure it. If they are consistent for a particular counter you can convert these calibration measurements into a correction table and thus improve the resolution of all subsequent time interval readings. The SR620 does this with an EEPROM table. In my test I compared two 5 MHz oscillators that were about 5e-11 apart in frequency. That way it took about 4000 seconds to complete one 200 ns cycle wrap. Collect data for a day and you have a nice series of waveforms. I see both 100 ns periods (due to the 10 MHz 53132 clock) and 200 ns periods (due to the 5 MHz DUT). Avoiding cycle wraps with dividers doesn't really solve the problem. Also, it's not always practical to continuously sit in a small fraction of the full interpolator cycle. One solution is applying interpolator calibration, as mentioned above. But the solution I use is exactly opposite of your intuition -- for best resolution I welcome as many cycle wraps as possible. This is especially effective if you compute phase slope (frequency offset) with a least squares fit, instead of point-to-point. /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Influence of Cycle Wraps on TInt-Measurements with53132A
with a teenage girl in the house it is easy to prefer macs over pcs... unfortunately, Timelab does not work on my mac, but Plotter does (via CrossOver). however, if there is just a small number of data points per cycle, Plotter will not remove the steps automatically, you have to do it manually (that means Plotter removes only the step you mark). in my example i had to remove 38 steps. i don't know the unwrapping algorithm. it could indeed be a reason for the repeating pattern, but certainly not the only one: https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2937/13895219797_efd4ff07cd_o.png when you look at the slope at the end of the cycle you see that the slope is flat, it is even slightly positive, whereas at the beginning of the new cycle it drops a bit sharper than for the rest of the cycle. it looks like that at every step. in my opinion this is the main reason for the repeating pattern, caused by the counter. removing the step does not alter the last/first few data points of a cycle. hans What happens if you use Timelab to analyze the same data instead of Plotter? I find that, depending on the dataset, one program or the other will sometimes have trouble removing the steps completely. They leave small steps behind. It isn't related to the counter used, but seems to be related to the number of data points per cycle and the unwrapping algorithm used by the program. Ed On 5/1/2014 4:05 AM, Hans Holzach wrote: hi tom, thank you very much! that is quite interesting. i am happy to learn that there is nothing wrong with *my* counter! converting the non-linearity effect into a correction table is beyond my abilities, but simply knowing that this effect is inherent to the 53132a counter helps a lot. indeed, my plots look similar to yours. after only three hours of warming up i measured the TI of an HP 10811 against the 1 pps output of my fury. the 10 mhz output of the fury was used as the external timebase of the counter. the raw data of one hour measuring. average period of cycle wraps is 93.3 s: https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7314/14076566541_79094d6850_o.png steps and drift removed (detail): https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7348/14079753105_f8ac97766d_o.png autocorrelated. the average distance between two peaks is 94.6 s: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5518/14056659576_703b446cc2_o.png as expected, the pattern is also visible in the ADEV plot (overlapping, all tau): https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7382/14079754735_62d70d1480_o.png and even better a few hours later (shorter period of cycle wraps): https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7042/14079754345_b4b6f9afb8_o.png but almost invisible in the standard ADEV plot: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5474/13893141107_5aa39eb199_o.png hans ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rb vs.Crystal OCXO
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Re: [time-nuts] Rb vs.Crystal OCXO
said, if i understand correctly, while in holdover, activated by sync:hold:init, temperature and aging compensation are still active (as it should be). however, to measure drift, i have to somehow disable these compensations, haven't i? yesterday, i wrote down the values of temperature and aging compensation, then set both to 0. in holdover the software does not seem to recalculate the values, at least not during the hour or two i had the oscillator unlocked. on uli's Z38XX the EFC curve was flat, unlike when temperature and aging compensation are active (or not 0) during holdover. one hour or so after sync:hold:rec:init i checked the values again, and they were very close to the values before i reset them to 0. my question is: would this be the correct procedure to have a truely unlocked oscillator: start holdover and then set tempco and aging to 0? thank you, hans Bill, There is an easier method that does not jiggle the board mechanically: The command: sync:hold:init Disables the disciplining. sync:hold:rec:init Re-enables disciplining. The sync:tint? command can be used to check the drift while in holdover.. Bye, Said ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rb vs.Crystal OCXO
said, if i understand correctly, while in holdover, activated by sync:hold:init, temperature and aging compensation are still active (as it should be). however, to measure drift, i have to somehow disable these compensations, haven't i? yesterday, i wrote down the values of temperature and aging compensation, then set both to 0. in holdover the software does not seem to recalculate the values, at least not during the hour or two i had the oscillator unlocked. on uli's Z38XX the EFC curve was flat, unlike when temperature and aging compensation are active (or not 0) during holdover. one hour or so after sync:hold:rec:init i checked the values again, and they were very close to the values before i reset them to 0. my question is: would this be the correct procedure to have a truely unlocked oscillator: start holdover and then set tempco and aging to 0? thank you, hans Bill, There is an easier method that does not jiggle the board mechanically: The command: sync:hold:init Disables the disciplining. sync:hold:rec:init Re-enables disciplining. The sync:tint? command can be used to check the drift while in holdover.. Bye, Said ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Rb vs.Crystal OCXO
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Re: [time-nuts] Question about effect of sample interval on ADEV
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Re: [time-nuts] Question about effect of sample interval on ADEV
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Re: [time-nuts] Question about effect of sample interval on ADEV
FYI: I tend to record all serial (RS232/GPIB/USB/LAN) data from counters, analyzers, receivers, environmental sensors with a precision MJD prefix. This allows both tight correlation among different instruments in the lab and also allows ADEV-like tools to estimate, and then gradually refine to high levels of precision, the actual data rate, during data collection. Yes, it adds a few extra bytes, but it can be valuable information sometimes and storage is cheaper than it was a decade ago. /tvb tom, as a newbie i'd be happy about a few hints how you do this. i use a prologix controller to read data lines from a 53132a counter. the data is then recorded by a terminal application (CoolTerm). the terminal application can add a timestamp to each line. however, even when in time arming or external arming (1pps from gpsdo) mode, the time stamp intervals vary significantly by up to maybe 0.1s, probably because the stamp is given by the terminal application and not by the counter. furthermore, ulrich's plotter program can't read CoolTerm's timestamp format, so i have to manipulate it in excel first before ulrich's plotter can process it... thank you, hans ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 59503A GPIB clock windows/linux software.
Am 02.06.13 23:20, schrieb Tom Van Baak: Lizeth Norman wrote: The 59309A can be updated via HPIB. I did it two ways. The first was to use windows system time and then write to the instrument. The other was to poll a M12+T and get the proper time. Sadly, both are in Labview, and as such probably aren't much help. Hans Holzach wrote: i use a 59309A as a time and date display in a setup of old HP devices: 10 mhz are taken from a fury gpsdo to keep the clock stable. an HP 71B reads the time from the gpsdo via an HP-IL/RS-232 interface and delivers it to the clock via an HP-IL/HPIB interface. setting the clock looks pretty cool, there is quite some action on the display! the system is so slow, it takes several seconds until time and date are set. sorry, no linux/windows involved here... Norm and Hans, Were either of you able to sync the 59309A to better than a second? From the schematic it looks like the P (stoP) and T (starT) commands have 1 second granularity and the R (Reset) command clears only the last MC14518 decade counter. This would suggest that one can set to within 100 ms, but no better. The code that I'm using (http://leapsecond.com/tools/hp59309.c) solves the 1 second problem but I wasn't able to get it to sync better than 0.1 second. If you have suggestions or solved this without a soldering iron, let me know. Thanks, /tvb tom, i am an absolute beginner and i am not able to read and understand the schematic (nor your code...). however, i noticed quickly that most of the time neither stoP nor starT are executed right after i push the button and found this to be a bit annoying. in my spaghetti-basic-program for the HP 71B to set the HP-IB clock i don't use neither of these two commands, but just R(eset). the next program line reads the time from the GPSDO. i want to keep these two lines as close together as possible. the values taken from the GPSDO are then added to the reset but running clock. compared to a reference clock the time is off +/- 1 second max. unfortunately, i have not figured out a better way to get decent results than running the program several times until the clock ticks more or less synchronously to the reference clock. in my setup there may be two reasons more for this behaviour than just the granularity of the commands or the clearing of the decade counter: 1. the loop consists of an HP 71, a multimeter, a printer, and three interfaces (HPIB, RS-232, USB) and is very slow. the rs-232 interface communicates at 19200 baud. you can almost hear the commands creeping through the cables, one by one... 2. i use the SCPI command :ptime:time:str? to read the time from the gpsdo. if i understand correctly, the resolution of the string is 1 sencond only. this would mean that if i read the time at Z + 0.9 seconds then i get Z and not Z+0.9s. this does not help much to synchronize the clock precisely with the GPSDO. or did i misunderstand something here (which is not very unlikely)? any ideas how to solve this issue would be very welcome! best regards, hans ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 59503A GPIB clock windows/linux software.
i use a 59309A as a time and date display in a setup of old HP devices: 10 mhz are taken from a fury gpsdo to keep the clock stable. an HP 71B reads the time from the gpsdo via an HP-IL/RS-232 interface and delivers it to the clock via an HP-IL/HPIB interface. setting the clock looks pretty cool, there is quite some action on the display! the system is so slow, it takes several seconds until time and date are set. sorry, no linux/windows involved here... best regards, hans ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Relationship between fixes and time duration?
i only know about the fury: the scpi command GPS:POS:SURV:STAT ONCE starts an auto-survey and lasts about three hours as 10,000 acquisition points are needed. if reception is bad this may take longer. you can specify the maximal number of points with GPS:POS:SURV:MAXP [0,1]. 10,000 is the default and also the maximum number (unfortunately). after the auto-survey the position (and other parameters) will be kept in memory in case of power interruption as there is a backup battery in the device. best regards, hans ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] problem with HP 59309A digital clock and HP IL/IB interface
pete, thank you for your advice. unfortunately i did not get much help there. the problem with the clock seems to be more complex than i thought. hans ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] problem with HP 59309A digital clock and HP IL/IB interface
hi all, i have a small collection of old HP calculators, with the hp 71b being my favourite. as a watchmaker i thought it might be a good idea to add a digital clock HP 59309A to my collection. but this cost my quite a few hours of sleep as i encountered an unexpectd problem that i can't solve. i have already posted this problem to the forum of the HP-Museum, but unfortunately i could not get a solution. so i thought i should try it here. i have an hp 71b connected via HP-IL (version 1B) to an hp 82169C HP-IL/HP-IB interface (DEVID$ is HP82169A, though). an HP digital clock HP59309A is connected to the HP-IB interface. the IL/IB interface is in translator mode, hp-il address 3. the clock is addressable, address is 11. i can control the clock (set time, stop etc.) without problem (e.g. OUTPUT 11;R resets the clock). but i am not able to read from the clock. my latest attempt to read from the clock looked like this: RESET HPIL RESTORE IO SEND TALK11 (ADDRESSED light of the clock is now permanently on) ENTER :11 USING #,9A;D$ (i also tried 10A, 11A etc. and ENTER LOOP) then the loop freezes, the hp71 does not respond to pressed keys, and the T/R light on the interface and the ADDRESSED light on the clock are permanently on. to continue i have to reset the hp-il interface. any help to solve this mistery would be much appreciated! thanks, hans ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
