Re: [time-nuts] Hat Creek observatory

[Patrick Barthelow]

Hi  guys,
I live in Auburn CA .  About 2 miles from the Chief programmer/software
engineer for Hat Creek.
Hat Creek is east of Redding CA a LONG drive from here, but spectacular
country.  Apparently a world renowned Fly Fishing place.
Fly fishermen have told me (I don't fish) that Hat Creek is on a lot of
Fishermen's bucket list.
We met by accident, having been a mile apart for many years.  We
occasionally have coffee together; He invited me to come up, and assist in
some rack mounted stuff
that he worked on, with a thermal heating problem.  The place is awesome in
many ways.
Isolated; leading edge, super high speed computers fiber optics,  currently
41 or 42 dishes, some day to expand on the same site
to 350 in number  I have a FB album of the site, interior
and exterior I can send a link.
Take a look:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10202069749135346.1073741863.1535563951=1=3508e486e9

Had an overnight stay there,  after the volunteer work with him.It is
WAY out in the middle of nowhere.. as might be inspected.
If there was a group that wanted to coordinate an insider's tour I could
help arrange that, if it is possible.
In fact, the place has overnight accommodations, kitchen, dining hall, and
a dynamite technical library, etc..
So, let me know  Give me a person contact info for the Time nuts group..
and I will see what is possible.
I will have to ask about what exists as precision time equipment there..

Best, 73,   Pat Barthelow AA6EG
apol lo...@gmail.com


*"The most exciting phrase to hear in Science, the one that heraldsnew
discoveries,  is not "Eureka, I have found it!"but:*
"That's funny..."  Isaac Asimov



On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 8:31 AM, Eric Scace  wrote:

> Hi —
>
>Does anyone here have contacts with the Hat Creek Observatory?
>
>My partner and I will be in the area Jun 15 Fri afternoon through Jun
> 18 Mon morning. While reports state the site has a few kiosks for
> self-tourism, we’re geeky time/frequency, radio & astrophysics types that
> want to know what’s in all the boxes and how everything works.
>
>Usually that goes better if one can be introduced.
>
>Thanks for any suggestions.
>
> — Eric K3NA
>
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS coordinate differences between APRS.FI and Google Maps

[Patrick Barthelow]

Indeed, probably datums.
I dont have the numbers in my head, but here is a
Good tutorial about Geo - Datums.
https://vdatum.noaa.gov/docs/datums.html


Best, 73,   Pat Barthelow AA6EG
apol lo...@gmail.com


*"The most exciting phrase to hear in Science, the one that heraldsnew
discoveries,  is not "Eureka, I have found it!"but:*
"That's funny..."  Isaac Asimov



On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 4:33 PM, Azelio Boriani 
wrote:

> aprs.fi uses google maps... have you taken a look to your raw packets?
>
> On Sat, Apr 21, 2018 at 12:34 AM, Scott McGrath 
> wrote:
> > DATUM perhaps?
> >
> > Content by Scott
> > Typos by Siri
> >
> > On Apr 20, 2018, at 5:20 PM, Russ Ramirez 
> wrote:
> >
> > This has probably been mentioned before, but there is a significant
> > discrepancy between APRS.FI locations for DMR hotspots for example, and
> > what my Trimble receiver and Google Maps says when I use my address to
> > lookup the coordinates.
> >
> > On APRS.FI my location has to be 45.15 N, -93.39 W for the icon to be in
> > the right location on the map.
> >
> > On regular Google Maps, my QTH is correct and matches what my Trimble
> says
> > via Lady Heather within a few seconds. 45.2586 N, -93.6554 W.
> >
> > Do any of you know what causes this, and did I do anything wrong
> possibly?
> > TIA
> >
> > Russ
> > K0WFS
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[time-nuts] Recommendations for Mains Power Monitor / Logger

[Patrick Murphy]

All this talk of varying mains power frequency aberrations has me
curious what is happening in my own back yard here in Tulsa in the
USA. Can some recommend a reasonable "introductory level" solution for
this? (As a fledgling Time-Nut, those two words were hard to say.)
At the least I would like to watch voltage and frequency, with a
configurable monitoring and logging interval. I can provide precise
timing as needed for synchronization and time-stamping. Expanded
ability to also monitor amperage, various power factors, etc is a plus
but not required at this point.

I've done some Googling and have found any number of designs. What I
can't tell is how well they work. I am pretty handy with my hands and
do not at all mind a DIY solution.

So what do the Oracles say?

Thanks!

-Pat
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Re: [time-nuts] RFTG RF Transistor - Identify RFTGM-II-XO Part (grosz)

[Patrick Murphy]

Thanks for the idea, Francis. I hadn't considered that. I'll keep that in
my kit bag as I work to resolve this. And I agree the temperatures of the
regulator and transistor are connected. I believe the regulator is
providing the bias. Given the output is some 27DB, that is a lot of
dissipation for such a small device.

I have had a couple of suggestions on what the part might be - MSA-0250 at
the top of the list. Looking at the data sheet, the maximum Tc is 200°C.
The device is designed to run hot. Comparing the XO unit with the Rb unit,
both are uncomfortably hot, with the XO being the hotter of the two. This
could easily be a difference in bias. With the MSA-0250 being near
Unobtanium, I'm hoping that portion of the circuit is actually operating
properly, and the problem is somewhere else. I'm going to reconnect the
units and resume diagnosing.

Thanks to you and the rest of the time-nuts for some very helpful
suggestions.

-Pat

On 12:41PM, Wed, Jan 10, 2018 Francis Grosz

wrote:

Patrick,

 I saw your Time-Nuts post on your RFTG problem.  If you are pretty
sure that the transistor has a problem and is not getting hot because
of some other fault, you might want to remove it and look to see if
the Part Number is on the bottom.  Depending on Board layout and
device pinout, those devices are sometimes mounted "upside down".
But with the regulator and transistor both getting hot, I'd suspect a
possible root cause leading to both of those.

  Francis Grosz
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[time-nuts] Fwd: Cannot Command RFTGm-II-Rb / RFTGm-II-XO

[Patrick Murphy]

@Mark - I would certainly take the latest version of Lady Heather to
compile. I have already compiled and am using the Dec 2016 / v5 version of
LH now, and while it receives data it does not recognize either Rb or XO
devices. I did pull down RFTG.EXE, et. al., off the ko4bb.com web site.
Unfortunately, wine crashes with this executable and I have not run the
cause to ground yet.

And trust me - you are not the only member of the wonky / crusty / mildly
unstable club . . . :-)

-Pat

--

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 02:56:12 +
From: Mark Sims <hol...@hotmail.com>
To: "time-nuts@febo.com" <time-nuts@febo.com>
Subject: [time-nuts] Cannot Command RFTGm-II-Rb / RFTGm-II-XO
Message-ID:
<SN1PR11MB102461EC10BA52E5AFA51CCDCE0E0@SN1PR11MB1024.
namprd11.prod.outlook.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

The RFTG-m units don't speak SCPI.   They have an undocumented binary
control language.   I reversed engineered the protocol and the latest
version of Lady Heather can talk to them.  The v5.0 release of Heather does
not support these.   If you run something linuxy or can compile the v5.0
release, I can send you the newest version to try.  Hope to get a public
Windoze release out shortly...

On ko4bb.com there is a copy of Lucent's control software for Win 95/98
(works under XP).  It is six (?) files that need to be saved in a
directory.  It is rather wonky and crusty and a bit unstable (hmmm...
sounds a bit like me).

--
Forwarded conversation
Subject: Cannot Command RFTGm-II-Rb / RFTGm-II-XO
----

From: Patrick Murphy <fgdhr...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 3:18 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com


I have recently acquired a used Lucent RFTGm-II-Rb and XO. The set came
with cables and frame, so I am pretty sure everything is hooked together
correctly. I have powered both units, and after a few hours I have the
green "Online" light lit on the REF-0 (Rb) and the yellow "Standby" light
lit on the REF-1 (XO). I am watching serial traffic via two RS422<->USB
adapters. After switching a couple of wires around, I am seeing TCODE data
from both units on the RX side at the PC. I have a clean 15MHz waveform and
2 ugly 10MHz waveforms from the RB, and PPS from both units. All seems well
so far.

I'd like to hook them up to two instances of Lady Heather and see what is
going on. The problem is that I cannot interrupt the TCODE stream to put
the device into SCPI mode. I have tried commands like ":ptim:tcod:cont 0"
(also "ptim:tcod:cont 0", without the leading ":") and variants of
":SYST:STAT?". Both modules just ignore them.

I have a bootable Linux partition. I guess I can load up WINE and try the
somewhat dated "RFTG.EXE". That seems a little extreme, especially if I
need to repeat that every time I need to restart the RFTGs.

Any suggestions what I should try next before I go the Linux route? Surely
there is some command or secret handshake I am just missing.

Thanks!

-Patrick Murphy
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[time-nuts] Cannot Command RFTGm-II-Rb / RFTGm-II-XO

[Patrick Murphy]

I have recently acquired a used Lucent RFTGm-II-Rb and XO. The set came
assembled with cables and frame, so I am pretty sure everything is hooked
together correctly. I have powered both units, and after a few hours I have
the green "Online" light lit on the REF-0 (Rb) and the yellow "Standby"
light lit on the REF-1 (XO). I am watching serial traffic via two
RS422<->USB adapters. After switching a couple of wires around, I am seeing
TCODE data from both units on the RX side at the PC. I have a clean 15MHz
waveform and 2 ugly 10MHz waveforms from the Rb, and PPS from both units.
All seems well so far.

I'd like to hook them up to two instances of Lady Heather and see what is
going on. The problem is that I cannot interrupt the TCODE stream to put
the device into SCPI mode. I have tried commands like ":ptim:tcod:cont 0"
(also "ptim:tcod:cont 0", without the leading ":") and variants of
":SYST:STAT?". Both modules just ignore them.

I have a bootable Linux partition. I guess I can load up WINE and try the
somewhat dated "RFTG.EXE". That seems a little extreme, especially if I
need to repeat that every time I need to restart the RFTGs.

Any suggestions what I should try next before I go the Linux route? Surely
there is some command or secret handshake I am just missing.

Thanks!

-Patrick Murphy
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[time-nuts] accurate 60 hz reference chips/ckts

[Patrick Barthelow]

PIcked up a couple of  large size Radio Shack  63-960 LED clocks with
Settable alarm, at local Goodwill store. $3.00 ea work great see across
room, loud Alarm, etc...


Barely missed, by seconds, getting a classic Hallicrafters General coverage
receiver
(not like say, S-38) but a larger light green metal box. nearly perfect
condx.  $25.00  with the famous h logo speaker  probably late 50s Vintage.
:-(   Dang...
 Checked LED clocks by ear and eye with WWV, They drift a few seconds in
the course of a few days, and wander back and forth.  Thought AC mains
frequency was tighter than that. They use  an LM 8560 Clock chip.  Uses a
switchable AC mains frequency reference pin  50/60 hz.
Want to provide an accurate  (relatively accurate) 60 hz reference to the
chip.   Some room inside for custom modifications.  Does a TCXO or similar
exist in a small package that provides 60 hz ticks?

Best, 73,   Pat Barthelow AA6EG
apol lo...@gmail.com


*"The most exciting phrase to hear in Science, the one that heraldsnew
discoveries,  is not "Eureka, I have found it!"but:*
"That's funny..."  Isaac Asimov
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[time-nuts] Test WWV timecube against Cesium, Rubidium, MASER or other precision time (UT-1) metrology

[Patrick Barthelow]

Hello Friends,

I am picking up locally a couple of vintage analog Radio Shack SW time cube
radios, 70s vintage, 3 switchable SW frequencies.  Two types, the one
pictured and a Radio Shack model also that has WWV and Weather channel VHF
frequencies.
I am interested in an accurate bench test to compare the analog shortwave
radios time reporting
hopefully UT-1 against other available references.  For accuracy, and
repeatability.   Could eventually add an SDR to the mix, too.
The 5,10,15 mhz radios obviously are subject to the WWV Ft Collins site,
propagation distance delays, somewhat calculable, and the vagaries of
Ionospheric propagation, and, propagation delays between the antenna and
the measured tap point to the seconds ticks of WWV.   I have some friends,
microwave professionals, who are also hams here in Auburn who may enjoy
doing a bench test, with published results, etc.  But wonder if anyone else
would be interested in borrowing a RS Timecube radio (and/or use an SDR)
and designing an accurate bench test against available modern standards?
We are talking probably HUGE  UT-1 errors compared to what this group plays
with, and that is OK but I think still a worthwhile test, especially if the
errors using available and cheap equipment are predictable, and repeatable.
https://forums.qrz.com/index.php?attachments/dscn1187-jpg.400844/

Another question:  Re precision frequency measurements of spacecraft
carriers at earth ground stations.  I have found a number of MASER labs,
willing to help measure a 70 cm UHF carrier of a satellite planned mission,
circling the moon.  Fun, and overkill yes .   But I would like to know if
the MASER extra 3 orders of magnitude precision frequency measurement (over
Rubidium, Cesium)  is useful, or utterly wasted in measuring a lunar
orbiting spacecraft frequency over as long a period as a month, in a coming
satellite mission?   Or, are Rubidium and Cesium and GPS disciplined
references  plenty accurate for accurate spacecraft orbit determinations?


Best, 73,   Pat Barthelow AA6EG
apol lo...@gmail.com


*"The most exciting phrase to hear in Science, the one that heraldsnew
discoveries,  is not "Eureka, I have found it!"but:*
"That's funny..."  Isaac Asimov
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[time-nuts] Propagation delay within analog radio, (Radio Shack Timecube) and an SDR, at HF

[Patrick Barthelow]

Just about to go across town to pick up TWO  Radio Shack Timecube radios,
that someone will sell cheap.  Been 35 years since I have seen one.   Used
one in College to bring time to astronomy instruments in the field.
>From a newbie: Has anyone measured or does anyone have an idea of the
propagation delay between an audio tick signal on the RF carrier at the
antenna port, to an audio waveform on the demodulator/audio amp?
 Microseconds?  more? less?
If I hang a scope on the speaker audio out, and RF modulated input signal,
how much delay would there be? Same question for  an SDR.

Best, 73,   Pat Barthelow AA6EG
apol lo...@gmail.com


*"The most exciting phrase to hear in Science, the one that heraldsnew
discoveries,  is not "Eureka, I have found it!"but:*
"That's funny..."  Isaac Asimov
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Re: [time-nuts] Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement

[Patrick Barthelow]

Longitude by Wire  by Richard Stachurski :
from Professional Surveyor Magazine, November 2003.
http://fgg-web.fgg.uni-lj.si/~/mkuhar/pouk/SG/Seminar/Astronomska_navigacija/Astronomska_navigacija_zgodovina/Professional_Surveyor_Magazine-Longitude_By_Wire_The_American_Method-Nov03.pdf


Best, 73,   Pat Barthelow AA6EG
apol lo...@gmail.com


*"The most exciting phrase to hear in Science, the one that heraldsnew
discoveries,  is not "Eureka, I have found it!"but:*
"That's funny..."  Isaac Asimov



On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Jim Harman  wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 12:32 PM, Gregory Beat  wrote:
>
> >  As a second’s error in time will be about a nautical mile in US
> > latitudes, I wonder if anyone has measured with GPS, how good the
> original
> > surveys were?
> >
> > Sent from iPad Air
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> >
>
> I think one nautical mile per second is a bit off:
>
> 86,400 sec/day
> Earth's circumference at lat. 41 is about 16,200 nautical miles, so it's
> about 16200/86400 or 0.187 mi/sec
>
> There is an interesting book "Longitude by Wire" by Richard Stachurski that
> describes efforts in the mid 19th century to improve the accuracy of
> surveys and determine the precise position of North America relative to
> Europe.
>
> This culminated in the use of pulses on telegraph lines to transfer
> observatory time to remote stations. With this technique, very careful
> measurements, and mathematical advances they were able reduce the longitude
> uncertainty to less than 10 feet.
>
> --
>
> --Jim Harman
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[time-nuts] Newbie to Time Nuts; Seeking wisdom, re Hydrogen MASER applications

[Patrick Barthelow]

Hello fellow Time nuts,

I am a newbie here, just joined, first post. But back in college dabbled in
"precise time" recording in the field, for
Geodetic Surveying field measurements, Star Shots. transiting the
meridian.  Very crude by today standards, but effective for
field measurements that had to be time stamped to sub second accuracy,  I
got to about 3-4ms UTC absolute,  and prior to my senior project most
geodetic surveyors  used a Wooden boxed, marine chronometer, to get sub
second UT1 time, or  back then, GMT.  I have a project involving use of a
Hydrogen Maser as a frequency reference, a STEM activity coming up next
year that may be of interest, and for which I need some technical
assistance. Involves precisely measuring received frequency of a lunar
orbiting satellite, in the  70 cm band. over a period of an hour or so, and
from widespread locations (multiple MASERS) around the Earth.

But that project will be revealed in my next post.

Mean time,   for your enjoyment,  I copy here a summary of what/how the
Arecibo Radio Telescope capabilities were,  when I visited there for  a
moonbounce activity I set up, called  "Echoes of Apollo", in 2012.   Google
and search Youtube videos,   KP4AO for commentary.

I was interested after returning home from Echoes Of Apollo, to learn more
about frequency standards they had and used at
the Arecibo Observatory.   So I wrote and got an interesting reply from one
of their awesomely knowledgeable staff.  Here is his reply on Arecibo Time:


"Any radio observatory worth its salt has time information at hand to the
sub-microsecond level of accuracy.  Having experienced only the AO,
I can speak of how we do it, but can't speak for other observatories.

Basically we start with a highly stable reference oscillator, an active
hydrogen maser whose frequency we generally maintain within about
1 part in 10^14.  It has an internal synthesizer which provides a 10-MHz
output.  Note that this level of frequency accuracy is needed primarily for
our planetary radar and pulsar timing work, so not all observatories
would be as well equipped.

The 10-MHz signal is distributed about the place for locking LOs and
other synthesizers, but it also "regulates" our master station clock.
This clock produces time-of-day (distributed in one of the IRIG formats)
and a 1 pulse per second digital output (1PPS).  These are also
distributed about the observatory.

We compare our station clock against UTC via a "common view GPS"
measurement scheme, in which we locally record time differences between
our master clock and GPS signals received by a special receiver.  This
receiver, among other things, pays attention solely to GPS signals which
come from satellites known to be simultaneously receivable both here and
at NIST in Boulder at the time of each comparison measurement.  Then
we send our locally-recorded difference data to NIST via internet, and they
apply relevant corrections and can tell us our time error with respect to
UTC.  We receive this information as a monthly report, whose major
component is a graph of our daily average difference from UTC.  We
try to keep this difference within ~200 ns.  It does drift around, however,
because the maser itself does drift around a wee bit and even very tiny
frequency errors integrate up to substantial time errors if left alone.

>From time to time we make small (a few parts in 10^14) adjustments to
our maser's frequency if the time error is getting too large, in order to
start our clock drifting back towards correct alignment with UTC.  The
end result is that an observer has immediate real time access to time
within a few hundred ns of correct.  Further, he can do much better if he
is willing to wait for the monthly report and apply the corrections- then he
can get down to ~10 ns error."

More, re MASER questions, later...



Best, 73,   Pat Barthelow AA6EG
apol lo...@gmail.com


*"The most exciting phrase to hear in Science, the one that heraldsnew
discoveries,  is not "Eureka, I have found it!"but:*
"That's funny..."  Isaac Asimov
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Re: [time-nuts] Which First GPSDO to buy?

[Patrick Tudor]

 On Dec 13, 2014, at 9:47 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 
 Actually I've added  some features to it like a 2 line by 16 character LCD
 display and some status LEDs.  And I can log data to a computer via a USB
 cable so it is easy to plot data and it is using my more expansive mast
 mounted timing antenna.


Just in case any of you like reading Arduino code, for fun or functions to 
copy-and-paste,
the code for my PCB that combines an ATMega328p with an Adafruit GPS and 
16x2 LCD to display GPS info as it sends the PPS out the DB9 DCD is at GitHub.
It’s not exactly, say, measuring oscillator cycles (yet... ) but it’s perhaps
a good introduction for someone who’s never ever before used anything Arduino.
(And now that I’ve done more PCBs with Cypress and FTDI chips, I wish I’d put 
that straight on my board instead of as a future daughterboard, but, feature 
creep.)

https://github.com/ptudor/jemma-clock

PT

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Re: [time-nuts] Wall clock stepper driver board and funky firmware

[Patrick Tudor]

 On Dec 1, 2014, at 9:49 PM, Mark Sims hol...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
 I was scanning through the shared PCB projects on OSHPARK.COM 
 http://oshpark.com/ and came upon this little driver for stepper motor wall 
 clocks:
 https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/gpkIWuAW 
 https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/gpkIWuAW
 There is a link to github with various AVR firmwares for doing different 
 random ticking clocks,  a Mars clock, a tide clock, and a sidereal clock.
 https://github.com/nsayer/Crazy-Clock https://github.com/nsayer/Crazy-Clock 
  


That wall clock stepper is a neat project. Fairly popular on Tindie.
You can see a couple panelized boards assembled in this picture on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/SmallBatchA/status/537258915613138944

His tiny design is significantly more popular, and significantly cheaper, than 
my own (albeit GPS PPS) clock on Tindie:

Crazy Clock: https://www.tindie.com/products/nsayer/crazy-clock/

Jemma Clock: https://www.tindie.com/products/ptudor/jemma-clock/

( And even more clocks: https://www.tindie.com/m/Clocks/ )

Patrick




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Re: [time-nuts] If any of your USB devices have stopped working lately...

[Patrick Tudor]

 On Oct 23, 2014, at 6:45 PM, Mark Sims hol...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
 Happened to a friend of mine.  All his Arduino stuff died.   This could be 
 the reason:

I’ve been following this matter closely; just yesterday I received a handful of 
FT232RLs
from Mouser. As someone that makes use of serial-to-USB all the time, I’m
well aware of their past efforts to prevent counterfeits from working and for 
the sake 
of my end users I’m mindful of the problems that will eventually result from 
spending $1 on a “FTDI” and make sure to spend $4.50 at reputable suppliers.

So I understand where FT is coming from, but I think their solution is extreme.
The greatest concern I have is people losing faith in automatic updates,
disabling them, and intentionally leaving their machines vulnerable.

On eBay I’ve sold about fifty Arduino clones. (Twelve hours until the next 
shipment arrives!)
I go out of my way to make sure they use CHP340/341 chipsets for USB; it’s an 
extra step
to install a driver, but I expected FT to disable counterfeits as they have 
before. Or in 
other words, I’m not surprised FTDI broke the fakes, I’m just surprised they 
touched the hardware.
In the past they’ve just disabled the counterfeits in software which has the 
same effect.

Plenty of analogies to counterfeit money, Rolexes, and Gucci handbags have 
appeared, and 
claims end users shouldn’t be hurt by counterfeit suppliers. But there are 
prices that are 
too good to be true. I don’t expect the average consumer to know the price of a 
1000
pieces on a reel, but I do think they might want to ask, “Why can I buy this 
serial adapter
for a dollar, when the rest are all five bucks?”


And for context, here I advocate for FTDI, easiest to use:
https://www.tindie.com/products/ptudor/ultimate-helper-gps-adapter/
And here I advocate the CH340/341.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arduino-Nano-v3-clone-ATmega328p-Los-Angeles-USA-/231304190208
I did notice a small spike in ISP programmer sales last night, perhaps people 
affected or avoiding…
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USBasp-H6-USB-ISP-5V-AVR-Programmer-for-Arduino-/231348877599


Patrick (KB6GE)



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Re: [time-nuts] Multiple Voltage monitoring

[Patrick]

I hardly ever respond to posts here, I am just too dumb but.

I have looked into this a bit. Why not look at used Astro-med products
on Ebay. This way you have the display and plotting built into your
solution. You could probably pick up something for under $300 that would
have 8 to 16 channels with plot. There are also 'Scopecorders' or
Hi-corders' from Yokogawa and Hioki but it is really hard to find a
decent one on Ebay or Dovebid and the prices are insane but the
specifications sound impressive.
-Patrick



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Re: [time-nuts] US ebay sellers who won't ship outside the US

[Patrick]

Here in Canada I hear a lot of complaints about the US, I heard even 
more with the previous administration. When I was younger I would 
sometimes hop on the bandwagon. Now I am older and slightly less 
stupid I can see America for what it is, a very diverse country often at 
odds with itself. There are millions of Americans trying to make their 
country a kinder place and that do not have hostile views towards the 
rest of us.


To all non-Americans, please refrain from lumping 306 million people 
together, let's keep this mailing list related to it's intended topic.


-Patrick

Steve Rooke wrote:

Well I guess it's a good job that other countries don't hide behind a
whole lot of excuses and BS when someone in the US wants to buy things
from them or you guys would feel pretty hard done by too. Sounds like
it's mostly just a case of it's too hard I can't be bothered to me.
Seems that anything and everything comes under the heading of sales of
arms to a lot of sellers on ePay. Most can't even be bothered to fill
in a customs form to send the item or even work out how to. Let's face
it, it's so much easier to send the item to the lower 48 States. Makes
me wonder how I can buy so called sensitive stuff from China that most
probably came from the US but supposedly I can't by it direct from the
US. Seems like dual standards here. Is someone in Government getting a
back-hander from the China seller so that they can get the gear out of
the US. Now considering how protective China is about itself, you
would think that they would have a whole lot of red-tape about sending
sensitive items out of their country but that does not seem to be the
case. Stop hiding behind a whole lot of excuses and get over it. If
the system over there is so busted fix it, your supposed to be a
democracy, well vote to get it fixed and stop keeping on regurgitating
the same crap system that seems to get more and more anally retentive.
We are all on this planet together. We all need to live together.
Let's try and all work together and not start some exclusive club that
only some can join.

Rant off.

I love you guys really!

  



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[time-nuts] OT favorite signal generator?

[Patrick]

Hey everyone

Sorry for the off topic post. I have received great advice in the past
with items for my little shop and I can't resist to ask again.

I am thinking about buying a signal generator. I suspect that I will
mostly use it to inject low uV/mV signals into the amplification stages
of the laboratory instruments I service.

Any feedback you have would be greatly appreciated-Patrick

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Re: [time-nuts] OT favorite signal generator?

[Patrick]

Thanks John

With regard to frequency and price, low frequency is fine for me and I
am hoping to buy something for  $250-Patrick

John Miles wrote:
 Budget?  Freq range?

 HP 8657As are good general-purpose SGs.  Reliable, serviceable, and
 reasonably clean.  Avoid 8656s and 8660s IMHO unless you can get one for
 next to nothing.

 If you don't mind getting your hands dirty there have been some inexpensive
 8662As on the surplus market lately.  They are cleaner than most, have an
 actual tuning knob, and include sweep capability.  They are complex,
 sometimes maintenance-intensive, and very hard to ship safely, and many of
 the ones you find on eBay have lived hard lives.

 -- john, KE5FX


   
 Hey everyone

 Sorry for the off topic post. I have received great advice in the past
 with items for my little shop and I can't resist to ask again.

 I am thinking about buying a signal generator. I suspect that I will
 mostly use it to inject low uV/mV signals into the amplification stages
 of the laboratory instruments I service.

 Any feedback you have would be greatly appreciated-Patrick

 


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Re: [time-nuts] OT favorite signal generator?

[Patrick]

Hi James

Thanks for your feedback on this.

My needs are probably very privative compared to those of the people on 
this list. I service a lot of the time without a schematic so I spend a 
lot of time figuring out how the circuit works. I was thinking that if I 
injected a signal with a known waveform I could follow it around the 
amplification circuits and such. My only real need is to create 
something that does not appear to already be there. For instance I don't 
see many triangle waves, if I produced one I could following it around 
with my oscilloscope. So in terms of frequency just a few hertz would 
do, heck even 1 would probably be fine. My only concern is that some of 
the circuits are high impedance and have low voltages. It might be a 
good idea if I could get down somewhere into the uV range.


Thanks again!-Patrick

Lux, James P wrote:


On 6/19/09 6:38 AM, optoma...@rogers.com optoma...@rogers.com wrote:

  

Hey Robert

Great tip about the attenuator.

I looked up some models on the internet and some look fairly expensive.
I know that I will always be injecting low voltage signals, do you think
it would be wise to buy a cheaper fixed attenuator, let's say 20dB?, and
then just depend on the variable rate that the signal generator?




How precise does your level have to be? How stable?
There are surplus attenuators available all over the place, some variable
ones too.  
MiniCircuits has VAT-nn attenuators which are relatively inexpensive (not by

found it at a ham-fest 30 years ago standards, though)

Building your own attenuator using chip resistors is another possibility.


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Re: [time-nuts] OT favorite chip programmer/favorite ROM emulator

[Patrick]

Hi David

Thanks for taking the time to post.

Have a great Easter-Patrick

David C. Partridge wrote:
 Another one to look at apparently is the Galep model 4(LPT) or 5(USB).   I
 don't have one but when this question was asked recently elsewhere, they
 were very highly recommended - and very good support.

 http://www.conitec.com/english/galep5.php

 Dave 

 -Original Message-
 From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
 Behalf Of Mark Sims
 Sent: 10 April 2009 04:17
 To: time-nuts@febo.com
 Subject: [time-nuts] OT favorite chip programmer/favorite ROM emulator


 By far the best programmer on the planet is still the Data I/O Unisite
 (followed by the 3980, 3900, and 2900 prorgrammers).  If a Unisite can't
 program it,  you are in bad shape... it probably can't be programmed.

 Bad news is a refurbed Unisite will set you back $25,000 plus the cost of
 socket adapters and software.  Good news is with a little shopping around on
 Ebay,  you can possibly snag one for around $100.  

 The trick is to find one with the socket adapters you need.  Also the more
 pin driver cards it has installed, the better (a full load is 17 cards/68
 pin drivers).  Also,  one with the internal hard drive (aka MSM,  aka Mass
 Storage Module) is very desirable.  Booting from a (720Kb only) floppy can
 take several minutes. 

 I have purchased several machines just because they had an adapter that I
 did not have.  Also you need to make sure it comes with a full set of
 programming software (generally,  the later the version better) because a
 current software set from DIO will set you back over $2000...

 For more info,  check out Bruce Lane's guide to DIO machines on Ebay:
 http://reviews.ebay.com/Data-I-O-Device-Programmers-A-Condensed-Reference_W0
 QQugidZ101698682?ssPageName=BUYGD:CAT:-1:SEARCH:3
 
  

 _
 Rediscover HotmailR: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. 
 http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Upd
 ates1_042009
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Re: [time-nuts] OT favorite chip programmer/favorite ROM emulator

[Patrick]

Sorry everyone

I was sending out my thanks and I accidentally posted to the list-Patrick

Patrick wrote:
 Hi David

 Thanks for taking the time to post.

 Have a great Easter-Patrick

 David C. Partridge wrote:
   
 Another one to look at apparently is the Galep model 4(LPT) or 5(USB).   I
 don't have one but when this question was asked recently elsewhere, they
 were very highly recommended - and very good support.

 http://www.conitec.com/english/galep5.php

 Dave 

 -Original Message-
 From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On
 Behalf Of Mark Sims
 Sent: 10 April 2009 04:17
 To: time-nuts@febo.com
 Subject: [time-nuts] OT favorite chip programmer/favorite ROM emulator


 By far the best programmer on the planet is still the Data I/O Unisite
 (followed by the 3980, 3900, and 2900 prorgrammers).  If a Unisite can't
 program it,  you are in bad shape... it probably can't be programmed.

 Bad news is a refurbed Unisite will set you back $25,000 plus the cost of
 socket adapters and software.  Good news is with a little shopping around on
 Ebay,  you can possibly snag one for around $100.  

 The trick is to find one with the socket adapters you need.  Also the more
 pin driver cards it has installed, the better (a full load is 17 cards/68
 pin drivers).  Also,  one with the internal hard drive (aka MSM,  aka Mass
 Storage Module) is very desirable.  Booting from a (720Kb only) floppy can
 take several minutes. 

 I have purchased several machines just because they had an adapter that I
 did not have.  Also you need to make sure it comes with a full set of
 programming software (generally,  the later the version better) because a
 current software set from DIO will set you back over $2000...

 For more info,  check out Bruce Lane's guide to DIO machines on Ebay:
 http://reviews.ebay.com/Data-I-O-Device-Programmers-A-Condensed-Reference_W0
 QQugidZ101698682?ssPageName=BUYGD:CAT:-1:SEARCH:3
 
  

 _
 Rediscover HotmailR: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. 
 http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Upd
 ates1_042009
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[time-nuts] OT favorite chip programmer/favorite ROM emulator

[Patrick]

Hi Everyone

Sorry for the off topic post. I have received such great advice in the
past with regard to instrumentation purchases, I just can't resist. The
caliber of knowledge on this list is second to none.

I am looking for a low cost chip programmer(under $300, preferably under
$200). Has anyone had a positive(or negative) experience with a
manufacturer?

I am also looking for a ROM emulator, does anyone have any advice?

Thanks in advance-Patrick

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[time-nuts] Jupiter modules: 1pps or 10kHz to lock an OCXO ?

[Patrick Reynaert]

Hello,


Using the 10kHz output to lock an OCXO is common practice and seems to give 
good results. 

Has anyone tried to use the 1pps output? One? could first make a simple divider 
to create a 0.5Hz reference with 50% duty cycle, and then use this signal to 
lock an OCXO. This would also allow the use of other OEM GPS modules that don't 
have the 10kHz but only the 1pps signal.

Of course, as the 0.5Hz signal is much lower in frequency than 10kHz, the 
short-term stability is pushed more to the OCXO, making the requirements of the 
OCXO even harder.

But maybe the 1pps signal has better stability than the 10kHz signal? Or is 
this the same since these signals will only influence the long-term stability 
of the oscillator and have the same accuracy?

Any thoughts are highly appreciated.

Thanks,
Patrick.




  
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[time-nuts] Jupiter modules: 1pps or 10kHz to lock an OCXO

[Patrick Reynaert]

Using the 10kHz output to lock an OCXO is common practice and seems to give 
good results. 

Has anyone tried to use the 1pps output? One  could first make a simple divider 
to create a 0.5Hz reference with 50% duty cycle, and then use this signal to 
lock an OCXO. This would also allow the use of other OEM GPS modules that don't 
have the 10kHz but only the 1pps signal.

Of course, as the 0.5Hz signal is much lower in frequency than 10kHz, the 
short-term stability is pushed more to the OCXO, making the requirements of the 
OCXO even harder.

But maybe the 1pps signal has better stability than the 10kHz signal? Or is 
this the same since these signals will only influence the long-term stability 
of the oscillator and have the same accuracy?

Any thoughts are highly appreciated.

Thanks,
Patrick.







  
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Re: [time-nuts] US Shipping Was huntron tracker advice

[Patrick]

BTW since we are talking about Ebay, they are not the only game in town.
I buy lots of laboratory instruments of Dovebid. Dovebid has been
purchased my Go-industry and their site is a mess. They are also
incredibly cruel bastards. When you purchase something from them you buy
it as-is, where-is. You need to hire someone from a UPS store to come to
the auction site, pick it up, pack it and ship it to you. They charge
you the state taxes and they will rarely refund them to you. Despite the
fact that they are so evil, much of the equipment is cheaper and of much
higher quality then that found on Ebay, you just need to find out why it
is being liquidated to begin with. Companies that are shutting down are
usually safer then those still standing. They always have scopes and
other equipment such as x-ray inspection units etc...

Equipnet and Bidspotter are two other sites that may be of use from time
to time-Patrick

Patrick wrote:
 I am on the lower end(maybe dumbest) of the intelligence spectrum on
 this list when it comes to pure electronics. However I have plenty to
 offer in logistics. I ship all over the world, this week it was Nigeria
 and Lebanon from my home based business in Canada.

 Virtually all of my parts come from the U.S.

 I have a P.O box at a UPS store in New Hampshire. I had one in N.Y state
 before but I ended up paying state taxes for certain items. It is
 hopeless to claim these taxes back as a foreign entity. N.H has 0% state
 taxes, taxes are due in the state that you take possession in. However
 if you arrange for shipping via a third party some states, such as
 Michigan, will have deemed you to already have taken possession even
 though you never entered the country.

 With the dark spectra of a severe recession looming on most of us I find
 myself in a peculiar situation. I have little money but the cliente`le I
 service are dying for the products I sell. I could easily sell 20X what
 I do now. I have been trying to slow my business down for months in the
 hope of re-organizing myself but to no avail. I can't hire anyone, as I
 work from home due to some health issues with my Wife and Son.

 I can't promise anything at this time but if someone would like help
 shipping items out of the U.S(or Canada) I would love to help. The
 logistics of servicing unknown equipment from a far is likely impossible
 to overcome but I have plenty of work that needs to get done. If
 something could be worked out I would gladly pay for shipping or
 shipping  labor for help with my business.

 -Patrick


 Neville Michie wrote:
   
 Many US or UK sellers will sell out of their country if you email  
 them and ask them,
 even if they list as home country only.
 I bought an HP 54501A oscilloscope from US, and it was sent to  
 Australia.
 Cost 30% more with the freight, but it was still only a few hundred  
 dollars,
 and I would not have found anything as useful in Australia at the price.
 cheers, Neville Michie

 On 27/11/2008, at 7:55 PM, Steve Rooke wrote:

   
 
 Hmmm... International Traffic in Arms Regulations, well I don't like
 to poke holes in that excuse but unless the US customs are REALLY
 paranoid, I can't see how most of the items I have tried to purchase
 would be covered under this. But, I suppose you could poke someone in
 the eye with a ball-point pen therefore it could be labled an an arm
 but I'm sure there are other reasons for most of refusals to ship
 outside the 48 States. It's not just a couple of dealers who take this
 position, it seems to be the case with a number of sellers sadly.

 What I need is a magic wormhole that runs from a US address and ends
 up in my home. Anyone got a design for one of these, sort of like a
 stargate :-)

 73, Steve - ZL3TUV

 2008/11/27 Robert Atkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 
   
 One reasion why many US dealers will not ship otside the USA is  
 the ITAR export regulations (Google it!). These are very hard to  
 follow and the penalties are heavy. I know a couple of dealers  
 have been warned and have just decided not to export anything  
 rather than take the risk.
 Robert G8RPI.

 --- On Thu, 27/11/08, Steve Rooke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 From: Steve Rooke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] huntron tracker advice  troubleshooting  
 withoutschematic advise
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time- 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: Thursday, 27 November, 2008, 8:21 AM

 And I envy you guys in the UK and the US as over here in New Zealand
 there is little to be had and anything that comes up costs an arm and
 a leg. My Mother is just emigrating over here and so I bought a few
 items (all I could afford) and had them sent to her so they can come
 over in the container with her furniture etc as there is no way I
 could afford the shipping otherwise. At least shipping via surface  
 was
 a workable option with heavy items like scopes, even with the 3 month
 wait, but that is now gone :(

 The other thing

[time-nuts] huntron tracker advice troubleshooting without schematic advise

[Patrick]

Hi Everyone

I have consistently had success repairing laboratory instruments(my
small business) when I have a schematic and I have consistently failed
without one, lots of opportunities are slipping threw my fingers.

I want to invest in tools that will help me troubleshoot without a
schematic. I was thinking about getting a Huntron tracker. Has anyone
had any experience with one? Could you feedback?

Are there other tools that have helped you fix circuit boards without a
schematic?

Thanks in advance-Patrick


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Re: [time-nuts] New Prologix GPIB-LAN Controller

[Patrick]

Hey Abdul

Your new controller is on my shopping list, I just need to wait for some 
checks to arrive.

Good work!

-Patrick

Prologix wrote:
 Hello,

  

 Prologix is happy to announce its newest product - GPIB-LAN Controller.

  

 Access your GPIB enabled instruments over a network (even over wireless)
 using the affordable, easy to use, Prologix GPIB-LAN controller!

  

 Use this controller to control, and to download screen plots and data from,
 Oscilloscopes, Logic Analyzers, Spectrum Analyzers and other GPIB enabled
 instruments. 

  

 GPIB-LAN controller uses the same command interface as the popular Prologix
 GPIB-USB controller; the only difference is you connect to a TCP port
 instead of over USB. Being a network device there are no drivers to install.

  

 * No drivers required

 * Support for multiple devices

 * No GPIB cable needed; controller plugs on to instrument

 * All software configuration. No switches

 * Standard RJ-45 and IEEE 488 (Male) connectors

  

 Thanks to John Miles for adapting KE5FX GPIB toolkit to support Prologix
 GPIB-LAN controller. Now you can use the popular 7470, SSM and PN utilities
 over the net.

  

 Thanks to Ulrich Bangert for adapting EZGPIB to support Prologix GPIB-LAN
 controller

  

 http://store.prologix.biz/gpiblan-controller.html

  

 Regards,

 Abdul

 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  

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[time-nuts] Trimble DAC voltage

[Patrick Reynaert]

Over the past 2 days, the DAC voltage of my trimble thunderbolt has increased 
in a linear mannar from 0.332 to 0.336 or about 2mV per day. 

I assume this voltage will sooner or later saturate? Or is this effect the 
aging of the crystal in the OCXO that keeps on going at this rate? If the 
latter is true, does this mean that within about 2500 days from now, the DAC 
voltage will hit +5V ?

Best regards,
Patrick.


 


  

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[time-nuts] Thunderbolt - temperature

[Patrick Reynaert]

Hello,

I have a question regarding the temperature reading in the Thunderbolt Monitor 
program of the Trimble Thunderbolt GPSDO. Is this the temperature of the board 
or the temperature of the crystal?

Related to this: does it help to put the Thunderbolt in an isolated box or is 
this an overkill?

Thanks.

Patrick
Belgium.


  

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[time-nuts] Allan variance of Thunderbolt

[Patrick Reynaert]

Hello,

a question regarding the Allan Deviation of the Thunderbolt. 

the curve at
http://www.leapsecond.com/pages/gpsdo/
gives a deviation of 1.5e-12 at tau=1s

whereas from the Trimble datasheet:
http://trl.trimble.com/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-10015/ 
at tau=1s, the deviation is 9e-10  ... 

Is the data-sheet a worse-case scenario?

Regards,
Patrick


  

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Re: [time-nuts] PCB design questions thread II

[Patrick]

Hi David and list

I am quite interested in this post too.

I have wanted to fabricate my own PCBs for several years now but I have 
never made an attempt. I am set up here to do silk screening and I have 
ovens and a hot-air soldering iron. Has anyone else tried to fabricate 
their own boards or is the price of farming the work out just so low now?

If anyone has farmed out work, could you please feedback as to the entry 
level costs and if possible, some suggested companies?

P.S Many of the boards I want to fabricate are replacements for obsolete 
ones. Is there a way to split the layers of an old board apart to study 
them?

Thanks-Patrick

David C. Partridge wrote:
 I've been working on the design for a frequency divider to complement the
 Thunderbolt I recently bought from TVB (thank you Tom, it's working very
 well as far as I can tell, though of course I've no other standard to
 compare against).

 Thanks to lots of advice and guidance from Bruce Griffiths (many thanks
 again Bruce), I've got the design near completion.

 I'm not aiming for NIST or equivalent perfection in terms on minimising
 jitter and other noise, but would like to at least make a at least a
 half-way decent job of this.

 I'm now thinking ahead to the PCB requirements,with the caveat that I've
 only ever designed one PCB before and that was a single layer board done
 using double sized mylar and sticky black tape (Yes, it was a good many
 years ago).

 Now to questions:

 1. Surface mount or through hole?  I don't have a re-flow oven (or even a
 hot air soldering system), so my inclination is to use through hole CMOS
 (74HC163s with 74AC glue logic and flip-flops), with the surface mount
 restricted to the clock shaper using a BAV99 and either an ADCMP600 or
 MAX999 and surrounding components.   Will using through hole cause me grief?

 2. How many layers?   In an ideal world with money no object, if I
 understand the current art correctly, I think I'd probably aim for a five
 layer board with Vcc, Digital Ground and Power Ground being separate
 internal planes, and trace routing on the top and bottom of the board with
 as few vias between top and bottom as possible.  Does that sound right?

 Do you think I can safely restrict myself to two layers, and if so does it
 make most sense to make one side of the board digital ground, and route
 everything else (Vcc, Power/Analogue Ground, and signals) on the other side.
 Or is there a better approach (always assuming that a two layer board is a
 viable option).

 Cheers
 Dave Partridge


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[time-nuts] Thoughts on IR thermometers?

[Patrick]

Hey Everybody

I tried to use a cheap IR thermometer to do some quick, pre-circuit 
analysis tests, a couple of years ago on a particular job.

It went bad, the laser did not even line up with the area being 
measured, I missed a burning hot capacitor and wasted a lot of time.

I was thinking about buying a better one this time. Does anyone have any 
suggestions? Do you think they are useless for PCB tests? Caps should 
not be hot and power resistors and transistors should not be cold right? 
but the spot size to laser ratio on most of these are not good, are they 
still useful?

I had a hell of a time trying to read my Son's temperature last night 
when he had a fever, anyone tried one of these out on their children?

Thanks in advance-Patrick

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[time-nuts] Favorite DC power Supply?

[Patrick]

Hi Everyone

I have been using a power supply from an old computer for my bench set 
up. I am finally going to break down and purchase a proper variable 
power supply. One channel ought to do for me and I don't need a 
programmable one.

Does anyone have a recommendation for a supply under $600 U.S? Any 
garbage ones to avoid?

Thanks in advance-Patrick

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Re: [time-nuts] Low cost logic analyzer

[Patrick]

Hey Guys

I have a scope/logic analyzer/spectrum analyzer from Bitscope. I can't 
say enough good things about it. There pretty cheap. I think you can get 
a logic analyzer only too but I'll have to double check.

Their in Australia but long distance fees have really dropped. Why not 
call and ask for Bruce and explain your situation.

-Patrick

Ulrich Bangert wrote:
 Gents,

 I know some of you are hardware hackers like me too. In the 25 years of
 electronic development I have always refused to work with logic
 analysers and always have claimed Give me a fast scope and some hours
 and I will do the job. However, these days I had VERY strange problems
 with an I2C bus based device. 

 Communication on the bus would work flawlessly over hours and then stop
 due to... yes, due to what? That clearly is an situation where the fast
 scope mentality not applies. On the search for something affordable I
 came over this:

 http://www.pctestinstruments.com/

 I still have the device not here and still do not know the reason of my
 problems but the technicians at Intronix said to me That is exactly
 what we have built it for when I asked them very specific if their
 device could be helpful in this situation. It it were true this thing
 were worth its price in gold.

 Best regards 

 Ulrich Bangert
 www.ulrich-bangert.de
 Ortholzer Weg 1
 27243 Gross Ippener 


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Re: [time-nuts] NI GPIB cards

[Patrick]

I too buy a fair number of GPIB cards, about 10-15 a year for use in the 
equipment I sell. I have bought four NI GPIB PCI cards in the last few 
months. One did not work as expected. I was horrified when I called NI. 
They asked that I pay  $200 U.S for a support contract so that they 
could provide technical support for the card I just bought from them. 
There is no longer any free technical support. You will be referred to 
an online forum were you can get help from other users.

I am presently testing a GPIB card from INES(Germany). Their old drivers 
did not allow drop in replacement but hopefully their new one will. I am 
not sure if anyone has had any experience with Quancom(Germany) but 
their cards look pretty cheap.

Happy Easter to our Christian members and Happy new year to our Persian 
ones.

-Patrick



Dennis Tillman wrote:
 H Dave,

 Over the past 6 years I have bought 15 or more NI GPIB cards for use in PCs.
 Nearly all of them have been bought on eBay. They have all worked fine.
 National Instruments is the Rolls Royce of GPIB cards. Technical support and
 driver support is first rate for all sorts of operating systems and
 hardware, not just PCs. Their software includes good debugging tools and
 manuals as well. There are more NI GPIB cards than any other brand on eBay.
 They are the standard because they are simply the best and the easiest to
 use.

 There are three kinds of national Instruments GPIB adapters I have purchased
 for the PC:
 1) PCMCIA cards which come in two versions - newer and older. The older
 version, which has an attractive blue schematic design on it, comes in two
 variations. The PLUS variation has some advanced debugging capabilities but
 these capabilities do not work on later versions of Windows. The newer
 PCMCIA card is a rather dull light brown color. I typically pay about $175
 to $225 for either version of PCMCIA cards. Both the newer and the older
 ones work fine. The PLUS version is very rare and usually goes for over
 $300. Be sure you get a PCMCIA card with a cable. The cable is the only
 thing that seems to have changed between the older veresion and the newer
 version. The cable can be pulled out of the older PCMCIA card because it is
 not locked into the card. It has a different, wider, connector on it. The
 newer PCMCIA card has a narrower cable on it with two tiny metal ears that
 lock/unlock it to the card. In my mind this newer, locking cable is a
 disadvantage because a good yank on the cable will pull the PCMCIA card
 right out of your laptop, which makes the laptop very unhappy. With the old,
 non-locking, cable if you yank on the cable it will separate from the PCMCIA
 card but at least the card stays in the laptop and you can plug the cable
 right back in.

 2) The PCI card. These typically go for $150 on eBay. They are very good but
 they are pricey. They are very common on eBay.

 3) The ISA card. If your PC has an ISA slot then this is a real bargain.
 They go for $25 on eBay. They are not as common on ebay as they once were
 because people think they are have been replaced with the PCI versions. Look
 for one that specifically says TNT PNP. These cards are Plug and Play and
 they actually do work that way even though they were one of the first plug
 and play cards to come out. They are bug free and they work fine. But they
 come in several versions not all of which are Plug and Play. So be sure the
 one you are bidding on says PNP on it. It is marked on the top of the card
 in clear letters. TNT was their name for the chip they designed that did all
 the GPIB interfacing.

 I have used John Miles software with the NI PCMCIA GPIB adapters I have. It
 works fine. There is no reason at all why it wouldn't work with any of the
 NI GPIB adapters.

 Dennis

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 This group seems to be very GPIB savvy, so I have a question (vaguely
 related to time and frequency) - is there a real difference between the half
 sized current one large chip NI PCI-GPIB card and the older and larger
 version with multiple chips that proceeded it ?

 Which would you buy on Ebay ? any gotchas ?

 This is of course among other things for use with John Miles software... and
 HP and Racal counters and so forth...

 Dave Emery N1PRE/AE


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Re: [time-nuts] Slightly off-topic: How to take measurements at fixed intervals in Perl

[Patrick]

Thanks John

Although I have been using GPIB for years, I am new at programming with 
it. I appreciate your post!
-Patrick

John Ackermann N8UR wrote:
 I've struggled for a while to figure out how to take readings at fixed
 intervals from my counters and other GPIB gear.  The problem is that the
 time it requires to trigger and receive a measurement is non-zero and
 can vary from measurement to measurement.  Trying to calibrate a proper
 delay is an exercise in frustration, and any errors mount over long
 experiments.

 I searched the web and found bits indicating that a fixed timer could be
 done using an alarm signal, but no single place provided a useful (to
 me, anyway) example, and all the info I found seemed aimed at different
 applications.

 I finally figured it out, and the details are at
 http://www.febo.com/pages/perl-alarm-code/index.html if this might be of
 interest to any of you.

 John

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[time-nuts] prologix device as sniffer

[Patrick]

Hi Everyone

Thanks to all for helping me with my last post. I am now reading with my 
Prologix device.

I am just not sure that I am reading everything. I am trying to monitor 
the communication between a closed source App and some GPIB devices.

After I set up imported and set up serial with PySerial I tried this:

ser.write(++mode0\r\n)

x=1

def read3():
while(x==1):
print ser.read(1000)

I also tried print ser.readline()

I read the ID command sent out by the software but I could not read 
the response. Am I reading all the addresses with this set up or just 
one? Does anyone have some thoughts on why I don't read the response?

Thanks yet again in advance-patrick


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Re: [time-nuts] prologix device as sniffer

[Patrick]

Thanks Abdul

This comes as a pretty big blow, as this is what I was hoping to do with 
it from the start.

Is there a way to set it up to read one address continuously?

thanks in advance-Patrick

Prologix wrote:
 Patrick,

 Prologix GPIB-USB controller does not work as a GPIB bus sniffer. In DEVICE
 mode the controller reads the bus only if it has previously been addressed
 as a listener.

 Regards,
 Abdul


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Patrick
 Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 10:25 AM
 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
 Subject: [time-nuts] prologix device as sniffer

 Hi Everyone

 Thanks to all for helping me with my last post. I am now reading with my 
 Prologix device.

 I am just not sure that I am reading everything. I am trying to monitor 
 the communication between a closed source App and some GPIB devices.

 After I set up imported and set up serial with PySerial I tried this:

 ser.write(++mode0\r\n)

 x=1

 def read3():
 while(x==1):
 print ser.read(1000)

 I also tried print ser.readline()

 I read the ID command sent out by the software but I could not read 
 the response. Am I reading all the addresses with this set up or just 
 one? Does anyone have some thoughts on why I don't read the response?

 Thanks yet again in advance-patrick


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Re: [time-nuts] 20 bit+ (Slightly OT: inexpensive USB analog-digital converter?)

[Patrick]

This has been a really interesting thread. I think I am going to get a 
labjack too.They have a 24 bit A/D model but it is expensive and has 
features I don't need. I am looking for something with 20 bit+ 
resolution but a little cheaper. The sampling rate can be very slow.

Thanks in advance-Patrick

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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix, Linux and bash

[Patrick]

Hi Everyone

I know that my Prologix device is functioning thanks to Ulrich's EZGPIB.

I however want to use this device under Linux. My Ubuntu box cannot find 
/dev/ttyUSB0 but a Mepis Linux live CD can.

I have tried the following commands:
echo ++auto 0 CR  /dev/ttyUSB0
echo ++auto 1 CR  /dev/ttyUSB0
echo ++auto 0 \r  /dev/ttyUSB0
echo ++auto 1 \r  /dev/ttyUSB0
echo ++auto 0 \n  /dev/ttyUSB0
echo ++auto 1 \n  /dev/ttyUSB0
echo ++auto 0 \r\n  /dev/ttyUSB0
echo ++auto 1 \r\n  /dev/ttyUSB0

I have not been able to switch the led on from talk to listen.

Could someone give me a bash sample of the correct syntax to use?

Thanks in advance-Patrick


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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix, Linux-thanks

[Patrick]

Thanks to Chuck, Jeff, Christian and John!

I was trying to do a quick test with a live CD in bash but the general 
message I have gotten is to fix the Ubuntu install. Indeed you were 
right and I was wrong.

I tried this command (thanks Jeff)

sudo tail -f /var/log/messages

I found out that I had a conflict with brltty. I don't remember 
installing a brail terminal!

It's funny it only had a conflict with the prologix device and not a 
usb-serial adapter.

Anyhow I am trying to communicate with the device with PySerial now. I 
am getting error messages back when I read but at least that's something.

Thanks again to all.

-Patrick


Chuck Harris wrote:
 You don't have the daemon that automatically loads new USB
 devices running.  I forget its name, but it is easily found
 by doing a google on linux USB.

 Or, you can look in Synaptic and search on USB.

 If I get a chance, I will look it up later on this evening.

 -Chuck Harris



 Patrick wrote:
   
 Hi Everyone

 I know that my Prologix device is functioning thanks to Ulrich's EZGPIB.

 I however want to use this device under Linux. My Ubuntu box cannot find 
 /dev/ttyUSB0 but a Mepis Linux live CD can.

 I have tried the following commands:
 echo ++auto 0 CR  /dev/ttyUSB0
 echo ++auto 1 CR  /dev/ttyUSB0
 echo ++auto 0 \r  /dev/ttyUSB0
 echo ++auto 1 \r  /dev/ttyUSB0
 echo ++auto 0 \n  /dev/ttyUSB0
 echo ++auto 1 \n  /dev/ttyUSB0
 echo ++auto 0 \r\n  /dev/ttyUSB0
 echo ++auto 1 \r\n  /dev/ttyUSB0

 I have not been able to switch the led on from talk to listen.

 Could someone give me a bash sample of the correct syntax to use?

 Thanks in advance-Patrick


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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix, 1 more quick ?

[Patrick]

So sorry guys. I have been pulling my hair out for the last hour. One 
more question please.

Abdul sent me over a PySerial script just before I bought this item.

In the script there was line line like this:
ser.write(plot;\r\n)

I have tried ser.write(++ver;\r\n') and many other commands and 
carriage returns.

With ser.read(100) I get
'Unrecognized command\r\n'

So at least I have some communication. Could someone help me with the 
syntax?

Thanks in advance-Patrick

Patrick wrote:
 Thanks to Chuck, Jeff, Christian and John!

 I was trying to do a quick test with a live CD in bash but the general 
 message I have gotten is to fix the Ubuntu install. Indeed you were 
 right and I was wrong.

 I tried this command (thanks Jeff)

 sudo tail -f /var/log/messages

 I found out that I had a conflict with brltty. I don't remember 
 installing a brail terminal!

 It's funny it only had a conflict with the prologix device and not a 
 usb-serial adapter.

 Anyhow I am trying to communicate with the device with PySerial now. I 
 am getting error messages back when I read but at least that's something.

 Thanks again to all.

 -Patrick


 Chuck Harris wrote:
   
 You don't have the daemon that automatically loads new USB
 devices running.  I forget its name, but it is easily found
 by doing a google on linux USB.

 Or, you can look in Synaptic and search on USB.

 If I get a chance, I will look it up later on this evening.

 -Chuck Harris



 Patrick wrote:
   
 
 Hi Everyone

 I know that my Prologix device is functioning thanks to Ulrich's EZGPIB.

 I however want to use this device under Linux. My Ubuntu box cannot find 
 /dev/ttyUSB0 but a Mepis Linux live CD can.

 I have tried the following commands:
 echo ++auto 0 CR  /dev/ttyUSB0
 echo ++auto 1 CR  /dev/ttyUSB0
 echo ++auto 0 \r  /dev/ttyUSB0
 echo ++auto 1 \r  /dev/ttyUSB0
 echo ++auto 0 \n  /dev/ttyUSB0
 echo ++auto 1 \n  /dev/ttyUSB0
 echo ++auto 0 \r\n  /dev/ttyUSB0
 echo ++auto 1 \r\n  /dev/ttyUSB0

 I have not been able to switch the led on from talk to listen.

 Could someone give me a bash sample of the correct syntax to use?

 Thanks in advance-Patrick


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Re: [time-nuts] OT: Hewlett Packard paint codes

[Patrick]

I am missing the original post, hopefully I am on topic..

I color match quite a bit. I refurbish lab instruments. I have a piece 
of glass over top of my scanner platten. I mix the paint right on the 
scanner and evaluate it with the GIMP. If you have not heard of it, it 
is a free image manipulation program. You can click on a little dropper 
icon inside the program and it will show you the RGB value for the small 
region you clicked on.

Hope this helps, If you need more details please feel free to ask-Patrick

phil wrote:
 This assumes you have a calibrated scanner and a calibrated printer.
 I don't have an IT8.7 target or its equivalent to calibrate the scanner.

 Perhaps I should start there heck I'll just try and match it by eye.

 Jack
 

 Jack, even if you had the exact rgb value of the original color, and if
 you intend to duplicate it on an inkjet printer you would have to tweak it
 anyway. Printer colors differ by small amounts from brand to brand of ink
 and even with same brand in different batches. Within Photoshop you can use
 the replace color to tweak a given (single) color. Regardless of how you
 do it, you have to sample printer output and match (tweak), to even to
 calibrate the printer using calibration standards. This gets you very close
 unless you have a super cheap scanner and printer and even with cheap
 hardware this allows you to accomplish the intended results.
 Phil


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Re: [time-nuts] Digital Scopes - suggestions

[Patrick]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

Hi John

I think I have the perfect suggestion for you.

I spent 200+ hours researching scopes before I started my business, 
primarily because I am a cheap bastard. I finally found what I wanted, 
at the price I wanted. Please check out bitscope.com. I bought one over 
a year ago and it has paid for itself many times over. The support has 
been absolutely excellent. It is a PC controlled scope but it is 
external to the PC so it does not pick up noise.I bought the 310N, it 
has a built in logic analyzer, an signal out function and it can monitor 
two channels by multiplexing one. It can trigger from logic or analog. 
It runs on Windows and Linux. There are now Debian and Ubuntu packages 
for easy install and they are just releasing a control library. Together 
with my AEMC current probe I have used it to fix a number of difficult 
problems.

I had to pay a 7% tariff to get it into Canada but shipping was cheap 
and the price is low to start with. I just checked the current price and 
it looks like it is $585 U.S

Please don't hesitate ask if you have any questions. Bruce at Bitscope 
had been very helpful and sold me a great scope. I feel I owe him time 
considering the insane amount of questions I have asked him, of which 
none of them were due to shortcomings of his product.

-Patrick

John Ackermann N8UR wrote:
 Hal Murray said the following on 10/24/2007 03:47 AM:
   
 ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
 Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY


 I'm looking for a digital scope.  Is there some obvious model(s) that I 
 should keep an eye out for?

 I don't need one, so I'm willing to wait and I'm flexible on parameters.

 Mostly what I'm looking for is:
   reasonable (hobby) cost
   standard digital stuff: bright picture from a single event
   screen capture (GPIB or RS-232)

 I expect there is something in the 100 MHz range.  I probably don't want to 
 pay for a GHz front end, but I might if I got a good deal.
 

 I have a Tek TDS-2012 that I like a lot.  Dual channel, 100 MHz and 1
 Gsample, color LCD, very small and light.  Comms (RS-232, printer, GPIB)
 is an optional module.  Base price is something around $1200 new, I
 think.  I think they've been around long enough that there should be
 some used ones out there somewhere.

 There are also several other models in the same series that vary in
 number of channels, speed, and monochrome versus color display.

 I still use an analog scope (Tek 2465B) for serious RF work, but the
 digital can't be beat for looking at PPS and general bench use.

 (My theory -- Tektronix for scopes, HP for everything else.)

 John


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Re: [time-nuts] Digital Scopes - suggestions

[Patrick]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

Hi Brooke

I am not exactly sure. You can go into the uS range but I had better 
check with the Bitscope people about the exact details. I will forward 
this email. I am sure you will have an answer tomorrow.

-Patrick



Brooke Clarke wrote:
 Hi Patrick:

 They have an impressive line and I like PIC based products.  Can you measure 
 the period of a 1 PPS signal when the pulse width is on the order of 0 us?

 Have Fun,

 Brooke Clarke
 http://www.PRC68.com
 http://www.precisionclock.com
 http://www.prc68.com/I/WebCam2.shtml 24/7 Sky-Weather-Astronomy Cam


 Patrick wrote:
   
 ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
 Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

 Hi John

 I think I have the perfect suggestion for you.

 I spent 200+ hours researching scopes before I started my business, 
 primarily because I am a cheap bastard. I finally found what I wanted, 
 at the price I wanted. Please check out bitscope.com. I bought one over 
 a year ago and it has paid for itself many times over. The support has 
 been absolutely excellent. It is a PC controlled scope but it is 
 external to the PC so it does not pick up noise.I bought the 310N, it 
 has a built in logic analyzer, an signal out function and it can monitor 
 two channels by multiplexing one. It can trigger from logic or analog. 
 It runs on Windows and Linux. There are now Debian and Ubuntu packages 
 for easy install and they are just releasing a control library. Together 
 with my AEMC current probe I have used it to fix a number of difficult 
 problems.

 I had to pay a 7% tariff to get it into Canada but shipping was cheap 
 and the price is low to start with. I just checked the current price and 
 it looks like it is $585 U.S

 Please don't hesitate ask if you have any questions. Bruce at Bitscope 
 had been very helpful and sold me a great scope. I feel I owe him time 
 considering the insane amount of questions I have asked him, of which 
 none of them were due to shortcomings of his product.

 -Patrick
 

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Re: [time-nuts] Digital Scopes - suggestions

[Patrick]

); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

I was wondering about that! :-) Patrick

Brooke Clarke wrote:
 Hi Patrick:

 That should be 10 us not 0 us.

 Thanks  Have Fun,

 Brooke Clarke
 http://www.PRC68.com
 http://www.precisionclock.com
 http://www.prc68.com/I/WebCam2.shtml 24/7 Sky-Weather-Astronomy Cam


 Patrick wrote:
   
 ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
 Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

 Hi Brooke

 I am not exactly sure. You can go into the uS range but I had better 
 check with the Bitscope people about the exact details. I will forward 
 this email. I am sure you will have an answer tomorrow.

 -Patrick



 Brooke Clarke wrote:

 
 Hi Patrick:

 They have an impressive line and I like PIC based products.  Can you 
 measure 
 the period of a 1 PPS signal when the pulse width is on the order of 0 us?

 Have Fun,

 Brooke Clarke
 http://www.PRC68.com
 http://www.precisionclock.com
 http://www.prc68.com/I/WebCam2.shtml 24/7 Sky-Weather-Astronomy Cam


 Patrick wrote:
  

   
 ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
 Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY

 Hi John

 I think I have the perfect suggestion for you.

 I spent 200+ hours researching scopes before I started my business, 
 primarily because I am a cheap bastard. I finally found what I wanted, 
 at the price I wanted. Please check out bitscope.com. I bought one over 
 a year ago and it has paid for itself many times over. The support has 
 been absolutely excellent. It is a PC controlled scope but it is 
 external to the PC so it does not pick up noise.I bought the 310N, it 
 has a built in logic analyzer, an signal out function and it can monitor 
 two channels by multiplexing one. It can trigger from logic or analog. 
 It runs on Windows and Linux. There are now Debian and Ubuntu packages 
 for easy install and they are just releasing a control library. Together 
 with my AEMC current probe I have used it to fix a number of difficult 
 problems.

 I had to pay a 7% tariff to get it into Canada but shipping was cheap 
 and the price is low to start with. I just checked the current price and 
 it looks like it is $585 U.S

 Please don't hesitate ask if you have any questions. Bruce at Bitscope 
 had been very helpful and sold me a great scope. I feel I owe him time 
 considering the insane amount of questions I have asked him, of which 
 none of them were due to shortcomings of his product.

 -Patrick

 
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