Re: [time-nuts] Rb cooling
On 18 July 2011 11:12, WB6BNQ wb6...@cox.net wrote: Thinking about it Poul, That explains why the preferred frying pan is made of cast iron in deference to the modern light weight ones they sell these days; better temperature control across the cooking area. I knew I was saving old used cast iron pans for a reason. Now I know what I am going to do with them. OT: They also work well on an induction hob if you ever go that way, whereas a lot of older style, or cheaper, stainless steel have non magnetic bases. Steve And I agree, people are not thinking about the reason for the heat regarding the Rb. Everything in its proper balance. BillWB6BNQ Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: Cooling Rb's is a much misunderstood discipline. Most Rb's have a specified base plate temperature range. For instance the PRS10 specifies -20..+65°C Cooling Rb's should happen only through the base-plate. Cooling other surfaces creates unwanted temperature gradients inside the Rb unit. The colder you run a Rb, the more power it uses to keep important bits inside warm. Running it near the top end of the range wears out the electronics in it faster. No matter what kind of cooling, it is important that it offers sufficient cooling capacity for the internal ovens to have a margin to work with. For frequency stability, you should strive to have a constant baseplate temperature. Putting a fan on anything, will generally speed up and amplify the effects of any ambient temperature changes. For optimal frequency stability, you want to do is mount your Rb on a huge lump of iron which you can keep at a constant temperature around 35-40°C by natural convection. Iron is better than Cu/brass/Al because it conducts heat slower and less eagerly, thus attenuating ambient temperature fluctuations. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Japan Quake May Have Shortened Earth Days, Moved Axis
I just thought if we all jumped up and down on Everest we could squash it down into the ground and speed the world back up again. In that way we could get it back in sync with real time, I mean atomic time. Or maybe use any of the spare NASA rocket boosters securely attached to the earth and ignited so they speed the world up a bit. BTW, there are lots of bicycles in China, maybe they could jump off of them instead of chairs. Steve On 15 July 2011 11:29, J. Forster j...@quik.com wrote: Why do you need them to jump at all? If you got all the Chinese to just stand on a chair, it would increase the Moment of Inertia of the earth a smitch, and it would slow the rotation because of the Conservation of Angular Momentum. -John === On 7/14/2011 2:02 PM, Steve Rooke wrote: Well, if everyonel climbed Everest and we all jumped up and down together, perhaps we could achieve that :) Cheers, Steve I can't resist moving this off-topic thread by a giant leap. I have a 1969 R. Crumb comic book starring Fritz the Cat. In one story, Fritz discovers the Chinese have a rocket program. The rocket is powered by the vast population blowing into tubes. I didn't think this was practical but it did occur to me that they could have a workable WMD (although the term wasn't yet popular) if they got all the Chinese to climb up on a chair and jump down at exactly the same time (give or take a few milliseconds). Back in 1969 this wasn't workable because there was no way to get everyone jumping in sync. We all know that devices that could coordinate this event are becoming common and pretty cheap. You could reduce the required number of accurate clocks by gathering the jumpers into large venues like auditoriums or sporting arenas. Or just broadcast a count down from local radio stations with good clocks. Seems most of us are making our recent purchases of accurate timing devices from sellers in China. Is that just a coincidence? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Well, instead of leap seconds which seem to be the biggest bug bear for everyone, keep the second as 1/86,400 of the earths current rotation and adjust the factor used in the calculation of atomic time on a regular basis. No more leap seconds just leap atomic division factor. Unless you can try and convince the world that all this hours, minutes and seconds thing will have to change and some new system for defining the day with the granularity of some arbitrarily chosen factor of atomic time (which was in line with the earth's rotation 50 years ago or so) is worked out. The day that the second was defined in an atomic form has always meant that it bears little relationship to the idea of a second that was held before it and is used in the real world of wall clock time now. Yes, I'm well aware that this causes major impracticalities for technical and scientific users but the current system of linking atomic time to wall time obviously has its problems. Maybe that original linkage decision was a bad idea and the definition of the wall clock second should go back to the astronomers. Steve On 15 July 2011 21:36, cook michael michael.c...@sfr.fr wrote: Le 15/07/2011 10:33, Poul-Henning Kamp a écrit : In message4e1ffa88.9050...@sfr.fr, cook michael writes: Michael, there are a few details you overlook, and rather than repeat myself, I'll point you at an article I wrote for Queue and Communications of The ACM, trying to lay out the bits: http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1967009 Thanks for your ref. I am aware of the shortcomings of the present scheme and am not particularly pro leap second. It seems to me that the right questions are not being addressed and certainly the proposition for change as expressed and to be voted on in 2012 is premature. The US are just wanting leap seconds abolished without proposing alternative schemes covering all the requirements of time signal users. Once they have been defined , recommendations can be considered. Till then , fix the bugs. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] MIT RADIATION LABORATORY SERIES 1940-1945 (28 VOLS) on eBay
I see the price has come down to $500 now. Still out of my range though. Steve On 13 July 2011 14:20, Mike Feher mfe...@eozinc.com wrote: A guy is offering a complete set item # 320727122967 on eBay. I already have one complete set and lots of duplicates, otherwise I would jump at it. I like the hard copy a lot better than trying to read them on-line. Regards - Mike Mike B. Feher, EOZ Inc. 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell, NJ, 07731 732-886-5960 office 908-902-3831 cell ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On 15 July 2011 22:59, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message cactjvnxhfq79n3fvprs4xyen4ouc6w7q9ih1u2kisfg9d_f...@mail.gmail.com , Steve Rooke writes: Well, instead of leap seconds which seem to be the biggest bug bear for everyone, keep the second as 1/86,400 of the earths current rotation and adjust the factor used in the calculation of atomic time on a regular basis. We tried that in the 1960-ies, and it didn't work for anybody at all. Well, I really said that tongue in cheek just to stir up a hornets nest as I know it was not practical. The scientific community (and some industrial processes) do need a precisely defined, and reproducible, UNIT of time, that's a given. This does not mean that this atomic standard is the magic bullet for everything related to time though. In fact I'd go as far as to say that atomic time has nothing to do with real time and should never have been coupled with it in the first place. For most of the world, the correct measure of a second is 1/86,400 or the current rotation of this planet as that is the only thing that makes sense and keeps correlation over all of time. The idea of having to add a leap second every month in 2,500 years time, assuming we still exist then, seems quite ludicrous, I agree with you entirely, but the idea of the day gradually drifting out of sync with our artificial time is also not workable. I saw a comment to your article which suggested that we ditch leap seconds and leave the problem to future generations, seems an anathema to me. Steve -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
Jose, I couldn't agree with you more and embedded in my post was this conflict with the need to have a precise, reproducible, standard but that does not mean that this standard fits the need for wall time, with all its wobbliness and drift. When I look at time clocks they are divided into 24 hours, 60 minutes and 60 seconds. There is no, well a minute could be 59 or 60 or 61 seconds in an attempt to impose atomic time to solar time. This is like trying to impose structure on chaos. It is a very difficult problem that seems to have no solution so perhaps we should not try to impose a solution on it and therefore detach the two. As for turning back the clock hundreds of years, that is hardly the case as today's astronomers need a more accurate time than atomic time, which could be off by significant parts of a second compared to solar time, and they work out their correct time through published offsets. So what is the answer to all this, ditch the embarrassment for now and leave it to our buzillionth generation descendants to sort out. What applications do we need time correct to the femtosecond, certainly not for most of what goes on in the world, but it is vitally important for other applications, although it's not H:M:S that are not the case here, it's a precise period measurement that is required. Cheers, Steve On 15 July 2011 22:54, Jose Camara camar...@quantacorp.com wrote: Steve: The scientific community needs a well defined second, physically reproducible and stable. Something like the old meter platinum bar. In fact, look at meter in Wikipedia, very similar issues, with Earth as a basis for the reference at some point. Current definition is based on length traveled by light in vacuum in one second. Right there - making the second depend on Earth rotation, changing it daily, hourly to follow the capricious wobbly Earth would change the meter length just as often. Basically 'turns back the clock' hundreds of years in accuracy, stability of the second. Now the second definition relates to frequency accuracy, there is no phase information. Nothing like a femtosecond 'ball drop' somewhere that would define an absolute time. Once the second became atomic, the Earth variations and slowdown drift (ultimately it would show the same side to the Sun like the Moon does to Earth, in a few buzillion years - astro-nuts enlighten me) become an issue, as we don't want our buzillionth generation descendants seeing sunrise at 3am (although they would get off work at 2pm!). Once the Earth day equals the Earth year, what do we do? Let's plan ahead for the UTC at that point. Nice wall calendars, January First only! And it is a Holiday! -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rooke Sent: Friday, July 15, 2011 3:18 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC Well, instead of leap seconds which seem to be the biggest bug bear for everyone, keep the second as 1/86,400 of the earths current rotation and adjust the factor used in the calculation of atomic time on a regular basis. No more leap seconds just leap atomic division factor. Unless you can try and convince the world that all this hours, minutes and seconds thing will have to change and some new system for defining the day with the granularity of some arbitrarily chosen factor of atomic time (which was in line with the earth's rotation 50 years ago or so) is worked out. The day that the second was defined in an atomic form has always meant that it bears little relationship to the idea of a second that was held before it and is used in the real world of wall clock time now. Yes, I'm well aware that this causes major impracticalities for technical and scientific users but the current system of linking atomic time to wall time obviously has its problems. Maybe that original linkage decision was a bad idea and the definition of the wall clock second should go back to the astronomers. Steve On 15 July 2011 21:36, cook michael michael.c...@sfr.fr wrote: Le 15/07/2011 10:33, Poul-Henning Kamp a écrit : In message4e1ffa88.9050...@sfr.fr, cook michael writes: Michael, there are a few details you overlook, and rather than repeat myself, I'll point you at an article I wrote for Queue and Communications of The ACM, trying to lay out the bits: http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1967009 Thanks for your ref. I am aware of the shortcomings of the present scheme and am not particularly pro leap second. It seems to me that the right questions are not being addressed and certainly the proposition for change as expressed and to be voted on in 2012 is premature. The US are just wanting leap seconds abolished without proposing alternative schemes covering all the requirements of time signal users. Once they have been defined , recommendations can be considered
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On 16 July 2011 01:22, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: On 7/15/11 3:17 AM, Steve Rooke wrote: why stay with the ridiculous base 60 system inherited from the Babylonians? Why not decimalize it. Oh wait, that was tried a few hundred years ago, but perhaps the time is now right? If the UK can decimalize pounds, shillings, and pence, perhaps it is time to bow to the decimal hegemony. I didn't see any smilies but it's a good point, although trying to get the world to swallow that pill when some countries are using the lunisolar calendar, which actually makes a lot of sense when you listen to them but to us it seems to hark back to the dark ages. So do you propose 10 hours a day with 100 minutes and 100 seconds... Shame we could not decimalise the year as well, stupid earth taking 365 and a bit days to complete an orbit. No, let's drop the whole day thing, we have electric light now so day and night no longer matter, our decimal days could fit with a decimal year. And back on earth, we have coped for centuries with the existing system without the need of femto-second accuracy of the time. Yes, we need precise measurement of a period standard and therefore a frequency standard but the two are not the same thing or have the same needs. Steve As I write this at Sextidi 26 Messiador an CCXIX a 5:63:49 t.m.P. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On 16 July 2011 02:20, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message 4e2046db.3040...@erols.com, Chuck Harris writes: Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: I can see a 20 year prediction being seriously fraught with error. Not really, starting out with just one leap second every 18 months gets you pretty good first approximation. DUT1 would probably still be less than 3 seconds. Sorry to barge in here but I thought the leap second need was about a two year thing so wouldn't that mean a ten second jump at the twenty year mark. Steve I am not at all happy with the idea of having it magically stall, or stutter. That's something for some library function to keep track of after the fact. That is exactly my point: With 6 months notice, getting the libraries updated using regular software update channels is not feasible. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On 16 July 2011 02:51, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message cactjvnyewpksnjbt3dsf5kdvtq0jpwxm6x2ruxdxtcrp3jc...@mail.gmail.com , Steve Rooke writes: Sorry to barge in here but I thought the leap second need was about a two year thing so wouldn't that mean a ten second jump at the twenty year mark. No. schedule them 20 years in advance is not the same as schedule once every 20 seconds. Ah! I get you. Not 10 leap seconds at 20 year intervals, just an almanac to indicate when they will be for up to 20 years in advance. I guess that means they could take a bye for any scheduled event that is not required, as in the 7 year period without one. Steve If the time-lords want a leap second 2031-12-31, the have to say so before before 2011-12-31, if they want one 2032-06-30, they have to say so before 2012-06-30, etc. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On 16 July 2011 03:01, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message cactjvny8h2ethr_m6dquxhabhjb9nfgyauhjcn1bf-umh+k...@mail.gmail.com , Steve Rooke writes: Ah! I get you. Not 10 leap seconds at 20 year intervals, just an almanac to indicate when they will be for up to 20 years in advance. I guess that means they could take a bye for any scheduled event that is not required, as in the 7 year period without one. Nope, once they have scheduled a leap-second, it happens. And if it's not needed? Steve -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] The future of UTC
On 16 July 2011 03:14, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message CACTjVNynr5Vhrj=e+gfungebpa_u8__26bhjamk2nv6uxgi...@mail.gmail.com , Steve Rooke writes: Nope, once they have scheduled a leap-second, it happens. And if it's not needed? It is needed, otherwise they would not have scheduled it. So, your saying they will predict all the wobbling, drift, internal earth changes, etc and do this with any accuracy 20 years in advance, when we have already seen significant variations in this. If they predict wrong all that happens is that DUT1 wanders a bit more around and they will have to catch up with it over the next couple of decades. Given that straight-jacket, I suggest they schedule one every year then they can add and subtract them willy nilly. Yes, New Years Day, worldwide let's change the clock regardless. It would make it much more fun for all of us to watch what happens. Yes, I'm game for that, great idea. Cheers, Steve -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] MIT RADIATION LABORATORY SERIES 1940-1945 (28 VOLS) on eBay
It's a shame these, and other elderly scholarly works, can't just be released for the greater good, without all this red tape tying them down. I wonder how much better the world would advance if we could all go back to the days when we shared knowledge and skills freely between engineers before all the lawyers became involved. Does anyone else remember the hay days I wonder... Steve On 14 July 2011 16:32, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: On 7/13/11 12:13 PM, Chuck Harris wrote: I can conceive of a case where a publisher like McGraw-Hill's copyrighted book full of public domain IP could be copied if you used your own type font, and formatting of pages, pictures and text, etc... This is precisely the case with West Publishing and various and sundry law books. Where West has a hook (aside from having good search engines and cross referencing) is that citations in cases and pleadings, etc., use the West system for page/line and so forth. The codes are perfectly free to copy, but if you don't arrange exactly as West does, then the cites don't match up. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] MIT RADIATION LABORATORY SERIES 1940-1945 (28 VOLS) on eBay
Shame, isn't it, but they deserve something for the effort they put in. What is needed is the open-source approach to scanning and cleaning up these works. Lots of people putting in a little bit of coordinated effort and releasing the finished product under an open license so that it cannot be locked up by anyone. Steve On 15 July 2011 01:24, J. Forster j...@quik.com wrote: I agree, and have worked toward that end, but those who do the scanning (and file cleanup) sometimes seem to think they acquire ownership of the documents in that process. This leads to problems. Been there, done that. -John == It's a shame these, and other elderly scholarly works, can't just be released for the greater good, without all this red tape tying them down. I wonder how much better the world would advance if we could all go back to the days when we shared knowledge and skills freely between engineers before all the lawyers became involved. Does anyone else remember the hay days I wonder... Steve On 14 July 2011 16:32, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: On 7/13/11 12:13 PM, Chuck Harris wrote: I can conceive of a case where a publisher like McGraw-Hill's copyrighted book full of public domain IP could be copied if you used your own type font, and formatting of pages, pictures and text, etc... This is precisely the case with West Publishing and various and sundry law books. Where West has a hook (aside from having good search engines and cross referencing) is that citations in cases and pleadings, etc., use the West system for page/line and so forth. The codes are perfectly free to copy, but if you don't arrange exactly as West does, then the cites don't match up. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Japan Quake May Have Shortened Earth Days, Moved Axis
Maybe we will end up taking away leap-seconds soon. Just a random thought given the amount of seismic activity currently going on in the world. Steve (Quakecity, New Zealand) On 15 July 2011 01:40, J. Forster j...@quik.com wrote: So? That statement clearly imlies the Earth's period was shortened aganst some standard. If the Earth was the standard, how could it be shortened with respect to itself? It can't be. Time standards are atomic now. -John === Calculations indicate that by changing the distribution of Earth's mass, the Japanese earthquake should have caused Earth to rotate a bit faster, shortening the length of the day by about 1.8 microseconds. http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/japanquake/earth20110314.html Will ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Japan Quake May Have Shortened Earth Days, Moved Axis
On 15 July 2011 02:08, Rob Kimberley r...@timing-consultants.com wrote: However, atomic time and earth time effectively drift apart, and that is why periodically we have leap seconds to bring the two closer together again. So we still need the astronomical measurements. Think of it as atomic time being the linear reference, and earth time a course saw tooth, which periodically comes into sync with the addition (or subtraction) of leap seconds. Thanks, I was aware of this but my comment was that instead of the usual need to add leap seconds, we perhaps may have a need to subtract in the future should the world speed up significantly compared to it's decaying rotation. The thought here is that event would be an interesting test for the GPS disciplined clocks around the world. Steve Rob K -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of J. Forster Sent: 14 July 2011 2:41 PM To: xfor...@citynet.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Japan Quake May Have Shortened Earth Days, Moved Axis So? That statement clearly imlies the Earth's period was shortened aganst some standard. If the Earth was the standard, how could it be shortened with respect to itself? It can't be. Time standards are atomic now. -John === Calculations indicate that by changing the distribution of Earth's mass, the Japanese earthquake should have caused Earth to rotate a bit faster, shortening the length of the day by about 1.8 microseconds. http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/japanquake/earth20110314.htm l Will ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] MIT RADIATION LABORATORY SERIES 1940-1945 (28 VOLS) on eBay
I think you missed my point Jim, sorry if I had not made it clear. Steve On 15 July 2011 02:51, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: On 7/14/11 6:08 AM, Steve Rooke wrote: It's a shame these, and other elderly scholarly works, can't just be released for the greater good, without all this red tape tying them down. I wonder how much better the world would advance if we could all go back to the days when we shared knowledge and skills freely between engineers before all the lawyers became involved. Does anyone else remember the hay days I wonder... Oh yeah.. I remember how wonderful all that was..I think, overall, we're a lot better off today Getting on the bus or driving for an hour or more to go to a library which happened to have a copy, and then taking notes by hand from a bound journal after waiting for it to be retrieved from the stacks. Waiting for several weeks while an interlibrary loan was processed and they mailed it to you. Paying a nickle or dime a page in the 1970s ($.50/page today) for a crummy greasy copy of a not very wonderful microfiche image. Even as recently as the mid 90s, it was very difficult to get online access to most things. Search databases have been around for quite a while, and you could get the abstract sort of online, but then you'd have to request the article from someone like University Microfilms or hunt it down at a local library. And I think it's wonderful that most universities put dissertations online now. The typical Chapter 2 of a dissertation where the author reviews the literature and current state of knowledge is a gold mine for tracking down stuff, and for half way decent synthesis of a bunch of stuff together. I will say that it was fun to get the postcards in the mail from all over the world asking for a reprint of your paper. Now, they just send you whining emails asking why the link on your website is so slow or broken. And, letters asking for permission to cite or copy a figure.. they're pretty rare. Instead, you find your words in someone else's work when googling, send them a nice note asking for attribution, and get an offended, it was on the web, so I used it, whaddya gonna do'bout it.. I'm just codger-like this morning.. get offa my lawn you whippersnappers ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Japan Quake May Have Shortened Earth Days, Moved Axis
Anyone got a big file so we can cut those Himalayas down, I'm sure they are creating a lot of drag :) Steve On 15 July 2011 04:01, Tom Van Baak (lab/iPad) t...@leapsecond.com wrote: So what is the Allan deviation of the earth spinning? :) http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/earth/ /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Japan Quake May Have Shortened Earth Days, Moved Axis
On 15 July 2011 07:38, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: On 14/07/11 18:12, Steve Rooke wrote: Anyone got a big file so we can cut those Himalayas down, I'm sure they are creating a lot of drag :) Take your Dremel and a few spare bits and cut it loose. :) Moving that mass closer into the core would cause some spin-up. Still, the other effects would be horrible. Well, if everyonel climbed Everest and we all jumped up and down together, perhaps we could achieve that :) Cheers, Steve Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] MIT RADIATION LABORATORY SERIES 1940-1945 (28 VOLS) on eBay
On 13 July 2011 14:20, Mike Feher mfe...@eozinc.com wrote: A guy is offering a complete set item # 320727122967 on eBay. I already have one complete set and lots of duplicates, otherwise I would jump at it. I like the hard copy a lot better than trying to read them on-line. Regards - Drat! There I was going to put a bid down and I see they are only available to the United States :) Steve Mike Mike B. Feher, EOZ Inc. 89 Arnold Blvd. Howell, NJ, 07731 732-886-5960 office 908-902-3831 cell ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Am I the only Time Nut who doesn't wear a watch?
You'd need one for both wrists and learn to look at the time on alternate watches or you'll end up with lop sided upper arm muscle growth. Who needs dumbbells when you can work out just by looking at the time :) I wonder what the average time for the novelty to wear out is on one of these. Steve PS. Well, it is time related. On 10 July 2011 17:47, Robert Darlington rdarling...@gmail.com wrote: Okay guys, I saw a very strange timepiece when I was out shopping. If it wasn't $17k I'd consider it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PwJCzetTCI Interesting concept, looks good. On a side note, earlier today a friend gave me an Accutron 214 from 1965 that previously belonged to his father. Cool stuff. It needs servicing and cleaning as I can see what looks like minor corrosion inside while looking into the battery compartment. Greenish flaky stuff on the brass inside. -Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Am I the only Time Nut who doesn't wear a watch?
I still wear my Tag Heuer F1 midsize from back in the 80's. Although I'm on my second plastic bezel, the first wore so bad it eventually dropped off, and I have been through countless straps, the sapphire crystal is as good today as the first day I got it. They just don't seem to scratch at all, l but I understand that they can chip if hit hard enough, which still surprises me given the rough treatment my watch has gone through. OK, I'm a heathen for having a quartz watch, but it still keeps good time and it's light enough not to cause wrist ache. Steve On 9 July 2011 07:09, Chuck Harris cfhar...@erols.com wrote: I too love wearing a wrist watch Since I am always working with machines, I tend to scar my watches up quite a bit... therefor I tend to wear cheap watches... my current favorite is a Russian automatic dive watch that I picked up on ebay for $60. I only wear automatic winding mechanical watches. They are more than accurate enough to help me plot my way through life. Speidel Twist-O-Flex bands are the only type worth wearing in my opinion. -Chuck Harris William H. Fite wrote: Bravo, Rob. I thought I was the lone voice crying in the wilderness in support of watches. My beater is an Omega Seamaster that goes everywhere and does everything all the time. My others tend to sit in their rocker boxes and seldom get worn. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Am I the only Time Nut who doesn't wear a watch?
Wow! On 11 July 2011 03:20, William H. Fite omni...@gmail.com wrote: Then there is this little number... http://forums.watchnet.com/index.php?t=treegoto=415170rid=0 On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Rob Kimberley r...@timing-consultants.comwrote: My comment was a bit tongue in cheek. Novelty value only. I'm sure about a day wearing that would be enough for most mortals. :-) Rob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rooke Sent: 10 July 2011 10:28 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Am I the only Time Nut who doesn't wear a watch? You'd need one for both wrists and learn to look at the time on alternate watches or you'll end up with lop sided upper arm muscle growth. Who needs dumbbells when you can work out just by looking at the time :) I wonder what the average time for the novelty to wear out is on one of these. Steve PS. Well, it is time related. On 10 July 2011 17:47, Robert Darlington rdarling...@gmail.com wrote: Okay guys, I saw a very strange timepiece when I was out shopping. If it wasn't $17k I'd consider it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PwJCzetTCI Interesting concept, looks good. On a side note, earlier today a friend gave me an Accutron 214 from 1965 that previously belonged to his father. Cool stuff. It needs servicing and cleaning as I can see what looks like minor corrosion inside while looking into the battery compartment. Greenish flaky stuff on the brass inside. -Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Am I the only Time Nut who doesn't wear a watch?
Hi Hal, On 11 July 2011 17:12, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: ... The crystals on my PCs are ballpark of 1 PPM per C. I'd expect a watch crystal to be tuned to human temperature environments and be better than that. I guess I'll have to get setup to collect some data. This watch is not quartz, it is fully mechanical with a balance wheel. 4 seconds per day would be great if it were guaranteed over a wide temperature range, but that web page didn't mention anything about temperature. I wonder how well the human oven works in maintaining the environment of a watch xtal or balance wheel, assuming the watch is worn 24x7. Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lightsquared goes Global...
And when do you think the old age of the robber barons ended? Steve On 1 July 2011 18:05, Don Latham d...@montana.com wrote: IMHO, it's the new age of the robber barons. Paying for content is one thing, paying a government granted monopoly for use of the transmission medium is another. There is no effective competition if the bandwidth is sold to the highest bidder, locking out competition. Comparable to the great land giveaways to implement the transcontinental railways. Don David I. Emery On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 03:29:49PM -0700, J. Forster wrote: If over-the-air TV were abolished, that would leave all broadcast media in the hands of Comcast and Verizon and their $100+ charges. Broadcast TV will never go away... far too important to the political class as a place for political ads and local news about the local congresscritters. But you forget satellite DTH TV Dish and DirecTV have tens of millions of subs now... it's not just Verizon and Comcast. It amounts to a communication tax on the entire population. Pay cable content seems to be succeeding in the marketplace despite its higher price to consumers... and the continuing presence of free broadcast TV. And more and more of the quality content is there and only there (and on the Internet for pay too). -John -- Dave Emery N1PRE/AE, d...@dieconsulting.com DIE Consulting, Weston, Mass 02493 An empty zombie mind with a forlorn barely readable weatherbeaten 'For Rent' sign still vainly flapping outside on the weed encrusted pole - in celebration of what could have been, but wasn't and is not to be now either. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon If you don't know what it is, don't poke it. Ghost in the Shell Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Godwin corollary (was Remotely read power meters)
noise-nuts, I like it :) On 1 July 2011 22:17, Morris Odell vilgo...@bigpond.net.au wrote: Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Remotely read power meters This is OT for time-nuts. Should we start another list for things like this? nuts-overflow? nuts-OT? I would like to propose a corollary to Godwin's Law* for technical discussion groups. I have observed that every electronics technical group I have ever belonged to (and are lots) eventually ends up discussing power distribution! This one is perhaps atypical in that the topic of RCDs has not come up yet but I'm sure if we wait long enough it will. It used to bug me but now with very cheap bandwidth I just sit back and wait for the discussion to get back to boatanchors, radio, oscilloscopes, test gear, audio, microprocessors, time nuttery or whatever. It does degrade the S/N ratio a bit though - I wonder if there's a noise-nuts out there to discuss it on :-) Morris * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lyttleton Time Ball completly collapsed
On 15 June 2011 10:13, ewkeh...@aol.com wrote: I do not think this is funy. Bert Kehren True, and I don't think it was funny for the guy who had a ball that day :) Sorry, only kidding, just couldn't resist, I'm not aware of anyone being injured in that building. I do hope they had already removed the mechanism and will go ahead and rebuild it, in some form, as they have indicated up to now. There can't be many of these timeballs in the world today and the loss of even one is significant. They may not be at the same level as time-nuts today but they were as significant as GPS in their day. Steve In a message dated 6/14/2011 4:29:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, time-nuts-m...@tenpierick.com writes: Pity... Hopefully no one was working on the dismantling when nature decided to help. Soon on eBay - Slightly used timeball - local pickup only... You missed the: Some assembly required ;-P Greetings, Pieter. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Lyttleton Time Ball completly collapsed
Sadly, the Lyttleton Time Ball completly collapsed in yesterday's, Mon 13th, after-shocks. There were two quite major shocks of 5.5 at 1pm followed by a 6 at 2:20pm centered around the Sumner suberb which is close to Lyttleton. Cheers, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lyttleton Time Ball completly collapsed
I have seen no pictures of the current site but the quakes have downed several more buildings and many more are now added to the list of those that will need to be demolished. It will become a ghost town if this continues to happen. People are sick of the shocks and more are leaving as they are scared of living here. Many were injured and two are still in hospital with serious injuries. Existing delays in repair payments from the Government are causing considerable grief and anger with the people here and this is likely to add to it. New Zealanders have paid a national insurance scheme for earthquake coverage for decades and that should be available but it seems to not be forthcoming in any reasonable timeframe unfortunately. The mob is getting their pitchforks sharpened and torches ready; Gerry Brownley, Minister for EQC, had better beware! Steve On 14 June 2011 10:49, brent evers brent.ev...@gmail.com wrote: Dissapointing - I remember it being pointed out to me as we pulled into port there once. Are there others scattered around the globe? Brent On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 6:19 PM, Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com wrote: Sadly, the Lyttleton Time Ball completly collapsed in yesterday's, Mon 13th, after-shocks. There were two quite major shocks of 5.5 at 1pm followed by a 6 at 2:20pm centered around the Sumner suberb which is close to Lyttleton. Cheers, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Top Posting...
On 24 May 2011 11:57, Mike S mi...@flatsurface.com wrote: At 05:24 PM 5/23/2011, Burt I. Weiner wrote... I also prefer top posting. It makes life a lot simpler. Then you should change your MUA so it puts your .sig at the top, too. Right now, you're both top _and_ bottom posting. Well that should please everyone now then :) Steve ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Personal time keeping...
A number of years back the London Science Museum used to sell an Einstein Relative Time Watch that just had the hours hand and was marked around the dial, 1'ish, 2'ish, 3'ish, etc. I bought my ex one, don't know if she still has it. It's not the same as the new ones I have seen via Googling as I think this was much more fun. Steve On 20 May 2011 02:55, Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net wrote: Chuck, In another post I spoke about spending a few days with a fellow from DATUM. A lot of our idle chit-chat was about accuracy in timing and GPS vs.other off-air standards and propagation. He told me about his background in the military and precision measurements and about a watch he used to have that displayed in GPS seconds - fascinating stuffs. I noticed that he wasn't wearing a watch and I commented on that. He told me that he'd spent a good part of his life knowing precisely what time it was and still does the same thing in his work at DATUM. He then went on to comment that he was tired of knowing exactly what time it was and he personally got sick of knowing the exact time. He also said that looking at the kitchen clock once a day was close enough for him, that it reduced the stress on him. Burt At 07:43 AM 5/19/2011, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote My personal preference is for highly jeweled totally mechanical automatic winding wristwatches. My hobby compels me to have high accuracy time and frequency around, but my life just doesn't run with that kind of precision. -Chuck Harris Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Overheard from NASA
On 10 May 2011 22:56, Javier Herrero jherr...@hvsistemas.es wrote: I suppose that Jim refers to receive the signal from the already avaliable and conveniently fitted ones (at a safe distance from the spacecraft and users :) ) instead of having one on-board Just to point out, I guess you may have overlooked the smiley at the end of David's post. Regards, Steve Regards, Javier El 10/05/2011 12:22, David C. Partridge escribió: The problem is to fit the x-ray pulsar into the spacecraft without a) killing everyone and b) collapsing the spacecraft under its gravitational field :-) Regards, David Partridge -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Jim Lux Sent: 10 May 2011 04:46 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Cc: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Overheard from NASA And if someone figures out how to use xray pulsars in a flight qualified way, ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Overheard from NASA
On 11 May 2011 01:21, Javier Herrero jherr...@hvsistemas.es wrote: El 10/05/2011 15:10, Steve Rooke escribió: Just to point out, I guess you may have overlooked the smiley at the end of David's post. I did not ;) Did you see mine? (I was just too tempted) I don't blame you but did you see the implied smiley in my posting. Shame you can't just pick off a jam jar sized piece of one of these to put inside the spacecraft :) Best regards, Steve Regards Javier -- Javier Herrero EMAIL: jherr...@hvsistemas.com Chief Technology Officer HV Sistemas S.L. PHONE: +34 949 336 806 Los Charcones, 17 FAX: +34 949 336 792 19170 El Casar - Guadalajara - Spain WEB: http://www.hvsistemas.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Fwd: Your contact submission from LightSquared
Way back when the LightSquared controversy was brought to our attention I went on the their site and wrote a complaint on the contact page. Sure it doesn't affect me right now but who knows about their global ideas and I thought that another lone voice of descent may make the reconsider imposing their interference on you guys in the US (yes, I do care and yes, I still believe in the Easter bunny :) Well it seems they have finally got round to my enquiry, albeit after some considerable time. At the rate they seem to move, and with the complexity of this thing, maybe they will get around to implementing this system in the next millennia and not even our grand-children’s, grand-children's, grand-children will have to worry about it. In case you were wondering, I was fairly reserved with my language and I think I may have only used one word that is not in the dictionary, once. Cheers, Steve -- Forwarded message -- From: contact-f...@lightsquared.com Date: 4 February 2011 12:39 Subject: Your contact submission from LightSquared To: sar10...@gmail.com Thank you for submitting your contact information. A representative of LightSquared will be in touch shortly. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Coalition to Save GPS
On 13/03/2011, li...@lazygranch.com li...@lazygranch.com wrote: Corporations are people, except they get to spend unlimited secret money for or against politicians. Thus it is not what the government wants, but rather what the corporations demand. Isn't this what is called CORRUPTION or is that just a way of life/business over there? Steve The FCC has a history of ignoring good engineering. BPL and IBOC for example. Well I got one form email back from one of my senators regarding Lightsquared, and I sent it the day it was posted on this list. No reply from any of the other government officials I emailed. -Original Message- From: Jim Palfreyman jim77...@gmail.com Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 12:34:29 To: mahlonhaunsch...@cox.net; Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Coalition to Save GPS (3) If they get their license rest assured that GPS as we know it will disintegrate, along with every user of it (civilian and military). Rest assured that a LOT of effort is being spent fighting this. Are you sure about this?? Imagine the day they power up their transmitters (I know it would be gradual, but stick with me), GPS stops working in a good portion of the continental USA. (4 transmitters, 15000W each) There would be an outcry by the public with all those smartphones suddenly not working for location services. Not to mention cell phone towers who use GPS for timing (sure they can fix it - but are those phone companies going to be happy to spend the extra money?). And what about the military - they'll have something to say - after all it was they who wanted GPS to orginally to guide their missiles. So the outcry would be huge, the new transmitters are shut down so the GPS is restored - and then the lawsuits begin. I'm not in America, but are you telling me the government would prefer this new broadband service in exchange for GPS and (more importantly) everything that runs off it? Whatever happens, I'm going to sit back here and enjoy the show! Jim ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Coalition to Save GPS
On 13/03/2011, Chuck Harris cfhar...@erols.com wrote: The military is the one service that won't be affected by this interference. They run on a different band, and their modulation is more robust than the civilian side. Well if it is affected, maybe GPS users should lobby for free access to the other band as compensation :) Steve Jim Palfreyman wrote: (3) If they get their license rest assured that GPS as we know it will disintegrate, along with every user of it (civilian and military). Rest assured that a LOT of effort is being spent fighting this. Are you sure about this?? Imagine the day they power up their transmitters (I know it would be gradual, but stick with me), GPS stops working in a good portion of the continental USA. (4 transmitters, 15000W each) There would be an outcry by the public with all those smartphones suddenly not working for location services. Not to mention cell phone towers who use GPS for timing (sure they can fix it - but are those phone companies going to be happy to spend the extra money?). And what about the military - they'll have something to say - after all it was they who wanted GPS to orginally to guide their missiles. So the outcry would be huge, the new transmitters are shut down so the GPS is restored - and then the lawsuits begin. I'm not in America, but are you telling me the government would prefer this new broadband service in exchange for GPS and (more importantly) everything that runs off it? Whatever happens, I'm going to sit back here and enjoy the show! Jim ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] latest on the lightsquared 'saga'
On 4 March 2011 23:26, Charles P. Steinmetz charles_steinm...@lavabit.com wrote: Robert wrote: Hey, at least you got vouchers. Here in Cambridge UK the analogue signal goes off next weekend and you are on your own for converters. If you had ever seen the video that comes out of the converters made to the voucher price point, you might not be so keen on the program. Then again, many Brits seem to tolerate the horrid video that Sky TV sends out ;-) But at least it's in PAL not Never Twice The Same Colour :) Steve Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Earthquake meets time ball
Thanks and perhaps your right :) At least time seems to ticking by OK even if I no longer have anything locked to it. Cheers, Steve On 25/02/2011, Rob Kimberley r...@timing-consultants.com wrote: Glad to hear you are safe Steve - Time Nuts wouldn't quite be the same without you! Good luck down there mate. Rob -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rooke Sent: 24 February 2011 10:13 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Earthquake meets time ball Many thanks, I appreciate your kind thoughts. If your any good at fixing power, water, sewerage and can get the ADSL up on my newly re-connected phone line, as dial-up is really boring, I'd welcome that with open arms. I do have a petrol generator now but getting it was a real bun-fight and I was lucky to grab one off the trailer as they were being delivered to the hardware store. Believe me they went like hot cakes. Getting petrol was a case of queuing for ages miles down the road just to be rationed to $50 worth of fuel for the car and the jerry-can to run the generator. Wish I had my old Land Rover right now as you practically need a 4x4 to drive on the roads around here. But we are coping ok and there is a great spirit here with many people dragging their bbqs into the streets and cooking up their meat from the freezer and offering to all who come by as it's going off in their freezers. There's a artesian well-head in a local school that is overflowing as the power is off and is cannot be controlled, and I can get to it on foot with bottles I can fill by holding them under the running water. All this water needs to be boiled and I'm lucky that I bought a propane gas little cooking hob last time we had a quake so I'm able to do that and heat up food. It's just like camping here as you have to dig a hole in the garden for the number 1's and 2's too. It's OK, we are surviving and it'll all sort itself out eventually. Sorry for this OT post. Cheers, Steve On 24/02/2011, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message AANLkTi=6V+Gwa_o-Z9YXkar5TKzPvGoQc9tLTkOOQ=y...@mail.gmail.com, Stev e Rooke writes: Keep smiling Steve, and let us know if we can do anything for you. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Earthquake meets time ball
Shame that the rest of Lyttleton is wrecked! And I survived this one too, just about, almost had a desktop PC hit me in the head but I had the presence of mind to knock it away with my hands. It's pretty grim here but time still goes on. All the best everyone, Steve in Quakechurch On 24/02/2011, Murray Greenman murray.green...@rakon.com wrote: Hi, You may recall we discussed here some time back about how time was disseminated in days gone past, and mentioned Time Balls at various locations from Greenwich onward. I'd forgotten that there was (and still is) one at Lyttleton, NZ, right at the epicentre of the big earthquake. This historical building has as a result been badly damaged, but the ball and its tower still in place. See http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/image.cfm?c_id=1gal_gid=116950galler y_id=116940#7382812 73, Murray ZL1BPU ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: NZ Christchurch member
I heard he was still shaking :) Cheers, Steve On 24/02/2011, Raj vu2...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone hear from Time-Nut Steve Rooke from Christchurch ? Cheers -- Raj, VU2ZAP Bangalore, India. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Earthquake meets time ball
Many thanks, I appreciate your kind thoughts. If your any good at fixing power, water, sewerage and can get the ADSL up on my newly re-connected phone line, as dial-up is really boring, I'd welcome that with open arms. I do have a petrol generator now but getting it was a real bun-fight and I was lucky to grab one off the trailer as they were being delivered to the hardware store. Believe me they went like hot cakes. Getting petrol was a case of queuing for ages miles down the road just to be rationed to $50 worth of fuel for the car and the jerry-can to run the generator. Wish I had my old Land Rover right now as you practically need a 4x4 to drive on the roads around here. But we are coping ok and there is a great spirit here with many people dragging their bbqs into the streets and cooking up their meat from the freezer and offering to all who come by as it's going off in their freezers. There's a artesian well-head in a local school that is overflowing as the power is off and is cannot be controlled, and I can get to it on foot with bottles I can fill by holding them under the running water. All this water needs to be boiled and I'm lucky that I bought a propane gas little cooking hob last time we had a quake so I'm able to do that and heat up food. It's just like camping here as you have to dig a hole in the garden for the number 1's and 2's too. It's OK, we are surviving and it'll all sort itself out eventually. Sorry for this OT post. Cheers, Steve On 24/02/2011, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message AANLkTi=6V+Gwa_o-Z9YXkar5TKzPvGoQc9tLTkOOQ=y...@mail.gmail.com, Stev e Rooke writes: Keep smiling Steve, and let us know if we can do anything for you. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Us Time Nuts and... Wrist Watches.
On 26/12/2010, shali...@gmail.com shali...@gmail.com wrote: My favorite watches all use the 7T32 calibre from Seiko. I have 4 at the moment. This calibre is quite accurate enough (the drift is minimum, considering this quartz analog has to be readjusted every 2 months anyway (calendar is 31 days/month). It has a second hand, calendar, a very convenient alarm and also stopwatch functions, in a very elegant package. It is the only quartz analog watch I know that has 3 buttons and two crowns, so the user interface is quite friendly. I have never actually measured the drift rate, but it would be interesting to compare the four and see how well they track each others. My Seiko uses the 7T34 calibre and was 3 seconds slow in it's first year some 25 years ago. I don't have an exact current figure but it's running 8 seconds slow after having a battery replaced about a year ago. Now you have prompted me I will set it and record the drift accurately. What's more it has a slide rule bezel and I'm sure I'm not the only time-nut who is into slide rules. Steve Didier KO4BB Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Michael Poulos poulo...@gmail.com Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 11:00:53 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Us Time Nuts and... Wrist Watches. We all enjoy good accurate time keeping. :) What is your favorite watch? My watch (so far) is a Casio WaveCeptor digital watch that gets the WWVB signal and calibrates itself that I bought for $50 at a WalMart - the price of one Chicago parking ticket. Less than half a second off at any time, it is plenty accurate. The one exact drawback is that during night driving, you can't read it when you need to check the time. The lesser drawback is that it is not dressy. A nice dressy radio controlled watch would be that Citizen EcoDrive watch shown on those adverts during football games. If it has glow in the dark hands and 5 minute markers it would be great if expensive. So, let's have it with the best watch for a time nut! (not including Tom van Baak's REAL atomic watch) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Us Time Nuts and... Wrist Watches.
On 26/12/2010, Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com wrote: On 26/12/2010, shali...@gmail.com shali...@gmail.com wrote: My favorite watches all use the 7T32 calibre from Seiko. I have 4 at the moment. This calibre is quite accurate enough (the drift is minimum, considering this quartz analog has to be readjusted every 2 months anyway (calendar is 31 days/month). It has a second hand, calendar, a very convenient alarm and also stopwatch functions, in a very elegant package. It is the only quartz analog watch I know that has 3 buttons and two crowns, so the user interface is quite friendly. I have never actually measured the drift rate, but it would be interesting to compare the four and see how well they track each others. My Seiko uses the 7T34 calibre and was 3 seconds slow in it's first year some 25 years ago. I don't have an exact current figure but it's running 8 seconds slow after having a battery replaced about a year ago. Now you have prompted me I will set it and record the drift accurately. Although, of course, I would have changed the time on it back in October (duh!) when we went to NZ Summer Time down here so that 8 seconds may be the drift in the last 2 months. Steve What's more it has a slide rule bezel and I'm sure I'm not the only time-nut who is into slide rules. Steve Didier KO4BB Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Michael Poulos poulo...@gmail.com Sender: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 11:00:53 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Us Time Nuts and... Wrist Watches. We all enjoy good accurate time keeping. :) What is your favorite watch? My watch (so far) is a Casio WaveCeptor digital watch that gets the WWVB signal and calibrates itself that I bought for $50 at a WalMart - the price of one Chicago parking ticket. Less than half a second off at any time, it is plenty accurate. The one exact drawback is that during night driving, you can't read it when you need to check the time. The lesser drawback is that it is not dressy. A nice dressy radio controlled watch would be that Citizen EcoDrive watch shown on those adverts during football games. If it has glow in the dark hands and 5 minute markers it would be great if expensive. So, let's have it with the best watch for a time nut! (not including Tom van Baak's REAL atomic watch) ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Us Time Nuts and... Wrist Watches.
Orbiting this at a distance of roughly ninety-eight million miles is an utterly insignificant little blue-green planet whose ape-descended life forms are so amazingly primitive that they still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea. - Dougles Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy On 25/12/2010, Javier Herrero jherr...@hvsistemas.es wrote: Me too... :) El 24/12/2010 19:08, Mark J. Blair escribió: I stopped wearing a watch many years ago. I suppose I'm not really a time nut; I'm a 1/time nut. -- Javier HerreroEMAIL: jherr...@hvsistemas.com Chief Technology Officer HV Sistemas S.L. PHONE: +34 949 336 806 Los Charcones, 17 FAX: +34 949 336 792 19170 El Casar - Guadalajara - Spain WEB: http://www.hvsistemas.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] DJVU and PDF
On 12/12/2010, Perry Sandeen sandee...@yahoo.com wrote: List, ... So what I do is create my documents in MS word and then convert them to PDF’s. I tried the free Open Office but the word processor did not have an un-do function (which I ALWAYS need) that I could find. So it seems to me that the only cheap practical archival our time nuts ifo is to use the PDF format. Regarding Open Office Writer, did you look in the Edit menu as Undo, CTRL+Z, is the first item. Regards, Steve Regards, Perrier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Got 60HZ?
On 10/12/2010, WB6BNQ wb6...@cox.net wrote: Michael Poulos wrote: snip Like any frequency multiply scheme you need a really accurate reference source... like a Ru movement. Not to be too nit picky (this is timenuts after all) ... the proper abbreviation for Rubidium (it is an element) is Rb. I was wondering about that too and could only come up with RuddyUnobtainium as an extremely rare element :) Steve BillWB6BNQ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Cheap distribution amplifier
Three words... New World Order On 03/12/2010, David C. Partridge david.partri...@perdrix.co.uk wrote: But what's the concern about stuff being shipped OUT of the USA? Homeland Security surely doesn't care? This is really getting silly - the loonies have taken over at the asylum. Dave -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Collins, Graham Sent: 02 December 2010 13:02 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Cheap distribution amplifier And, it is getting more expensive to buy from the States and have shipped internationally. I saw the other day a reference to a new $9 charge that will be added to item being shipped internationally from the US that weigh more than 16oz (454grams). The charge to help offset the cost of new security measures. This will likely have a negative impact on a lot of small businesses doing a lot of mail order. Cheers, Graham -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Geraldo Lino de Campos Sent: December 2, 2010 07:54 To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Cheap distribution amplifier It is not cheap to ship to Brazil also... Pity these things are in the US, it would cost US$150 to ship it to OZ :( TT -- Geraldo Lino de Campos gera...@decampos.net ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things - CLOSED!!!
On 13/11/2010, Mike S mi...@flatsurface.com wrote: At 08:15 PM 11/12/2010, Mike Feher wrote... Relax GFY Right! I started this light hearted thread and specifically asked subscribers to comment via PM but now it has come down to this sort of public attitude. PLEASE MAKE NO MORE COMMENTS ON THIS THREAD, IT IS CLOSED! Thanks for your indulgence, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] OT loosing things
While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
I liked the idea of fairies being the culprits but each to their own :) I think that the LW are not completely random, they definitely return your own stuff to you but I don't believe it is necessarily in the same place. Ah, now a candidate for a new law. A lost item always turns up the moment after you have purchased it's replacement. Cheers, Steve On 13/11/2010, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Certainly one viable theory. However the answers much simpler then that and an established fact documented in many books by such authors as Steven King. Its simply ghosts at work. Worm wholes would not return items to the same place or area. Ghosts would. Although as you mention often much later, even years. Haven't you ever noted the stuff comes back after you buy a replacement? Regards On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com wrote: While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
On 13/11/2010, J. Forster j...@quik.com wrote: The sock problem has a simple, and obvious, solution. When you buy socks, buy a several year supply, all identical. When you no longer have more than 1 pair, buy a new batch. But what if you loose all the left or right foot socks (Murphy's Law applies here), you'll end up buying more when just half of them are lost. Steve QED. -John = The LW would explain missing single socks, pens, etc. The local randomness is probably a quantum effect... Dave - Original Message - From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 2:11:06 AM Subject: [time-nuts] OT loosing things While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Losing things
On 13 November 2010 12:00, John Green wpxs...@gmail.com wrote: I don't believe there are such things as fairies, etc. Unless you count the 4 foot 10 Filipino fairy that inhabits my house. I was bad enough to take my glasses off to work on something only to spend an hour afterward looking for them. Now, I have someone else to blame. She puts her glasses in the exact same place every night at bedtime and without fail asks where they are every morning. I have gotten in the habit of telling her that they are da'on, Tagalog for there. Every time I am looking for anything she will invariably say its over dere which is meaningless since dere is anywhere in the whole world except here. My elderly Mother is just like that, she tidies things away and then never knows where she put them. I dread doing jobs at her place that take more than one day as she always makes the place look nice inbetween and I spend a lot of the second day just trying to find things that the 5 foot 2, and getting smaller all the time, English fairy has squirelled away. Cheers, Steve ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
On 13 November 2010 03:40, William H. Fite omni...@gmail.com wrote: Faeries, ma Scottish Gram use' tae say. My son found his sunglasses on the back of a shelf in his refrigerator... When I unpacked a box of my Scots kit following a cross-country move, I found a Byrds album tucked neatly between my best kilt and my full plaid... When we cleared out Gram's house after her death, we found a petrified apple pie up on a top shelf with her good china... These are the same wee folk who clutter your closet with empty wire hangers when you don't need them and empty it of same when you do. Who move your roll of solder right in the middle of your job so that you have to stop and find it when you used it not two minutes ago. Who cause the printer cartridge that you know damned well you bought two weeks ago to disappear entirely. And who now seem to have purloined the upper-middle section of my 12' Xmas tree. Gram said you could mollify them by leaving bowls of milk out for them to drink. Sounds like strong evidence for the existance of Faeries and their nefarious ways. Steve On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com wrote: I liked the idea of fairies being the culprits but each to their own :) I think that the LW are not completely random, they definitely return your own stuff to you but I don't believe it is necessarily in the same place. Ah, now a candidate for a new law. A lost item always turns up the moment after you have purchased it's replacement. Cheers, Steve On 13/11/2010, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Certainly one viable theory. However the answers much simpler then that and an established fact documented in many books by such authors as Steven King. Its simply ghosts at work. Worm wholes would not return items to the same place or area. Ghosts would. Although as you mention often much later, even years. Haven't you ever noted the stuff comes back after you buy a replacement? Regards On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com wrote: While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
On 13 November 2010 05:49, William H. Fite omni...@gmail.com wrote: I'm sure some faeries are fairies... Ha, ha, ha... I can assure you, the fairies at the bottom of my garden are faeries and not the other type which we used to call Liberals way back in England :) I guess that context and cultural differences are something to keep an eye on or you will be labled as off with the faeries. Steve On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Graham planoph...@aei.ca wrote: Indeed, my house has it's share. My Gram told me all about them when I was wee lad. I tell similar tales of Faeries to my grandchildren who now pass them on any others who will listen. Sadly, not the typical meaning of the term Faeries (or Fairies if you prefer) here in North America. cheers, Graham ve3gtc On 11/12/2010 09:40, William H. Fite wrote: Faeries, ma Scottish Gram use' tae say. My son found his sunglasses on the back of a shelf in his refrigerator... When I unpacked a box of my Scots kit following a cross-country move, I found a Byrds album tucked neatly between my best kilt and my full plaid... When we cleared out Gram's house after her death, we found a petrified apple pie up on a top shelf with her good china... These are the same wee folk who clutter your closet with empty wire hangers when you don't need them and empty it of same when you do. Who move your roll of solder right in the middle of your job so that you have to stop and find it when you used it not two minutes ago. Who cause the printer cartridge that you know damned well you bought two weeks ago to disappear entirely. And who now seem to have purloined the upper-middle section of my 12' Xmas tree. Gram said you could mollify them by leaving bowls of milk out for them to drink. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
On 13 November 2010 09:22, d.sei...@comcast.net wrote: The LW would explain missing single socks, pens, etc. The local randomness is probably a quantum effect... The chaos theory would explain the randomdomness and the chaos that the LW brings to our lives :) As chaos theory is part and parcel of the Unverse, I have adopted it into my own life and now live in a totally chaotic way. I figure that it is the ecological thing to do even though it frequently, read mostly, ends up working against me. :) Cheers, Steve Dave - Original Message - From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 2:11:06 AM Subject: [time-nuts] OT loosing things While repairing my LCD monitor, I took off my glasses so as to be able to see better close up as I'm VERY short sighted and even the vari-focals my optician prescribes can no longer get me close enough to solder properly. Without them on, I can focus VERY close but the range is VERY short, being just a few inches. So I completed the work involving a few stages without putting the glasses back on just to save time but, when I went to grope around and try to find them, I could not. So where did I put the blessed things, and after a period of serious extended looking around, blind panic started to set in. What the dickens had I done with them! So I ended up shuffling out of the workshop, through the house, stumbling over the dogs, and up to the bedroom to, eventually, find my spare pair. On my return to the workshop I still could not find the glasses looked everywhere. A cup of tea ensued and I took a less panicky search only to find they had fallen down the back of some gear, or maybe it was the fairies at the bottom of my garden which had done it. I concluded that in my blinded state of putting them down in the first place, I had obviously chosen an poor safe place. After this I got to thinking and wondered if there is perhaps something darker happening here. My current theory is that there is something called a Lost Wormhole which moves around randomly and removes items from there current place, setting them down in some completely different dimension. So the chances of loosing something increases in proportion to the time that the item is left somewhere due to the increased probability of it being borrowed by the LW. Now, all is not lost as the LW is a two way pipe and so eventually your lost item will be dropped back somewhere in your vicinity but probably not where you thought you had left it. To my mind, this seems to fit my experience of the way the World seems to work and I'm sure there is some law here. For the humour challenged, this message is :) rated. Please feel free to comment on my theory but perhaps this should be via PM. Thank you for your time, Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT loosing things
On 13 November 2010 16:14, Raj vu2...@gmail.com wrote: The discussion is just heading toward the measurement of the time it takes for disappeared things to re appear. I think that my original post may have been sent to the wrong group, Raj :) Cheers, Steve At 13-11-2010, you wrote: Sigh. It used to be this was one of the most focused, on-topic email reflectors available, instead of the typical fill-your-inbox-with-offtopic-crap ones. How things have changed. CALL FOR MODERATION. -- Raj, VU2ZAP Bangalore, India. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Most precise clock ever created - here we go again
a story line. But if you are standing on the forest floor, it needs to have branches, bark, leaves and twigs... but not cells and atoms. If you look under a microscope, what you are looking at needs cells. If it is a really good microscope, even tinier stuff. Smashing it with a Hadron collider, quarks and other things... -Chuck Harris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Most precise clock ever created - here we go again
So if everything is in 2d then nothing has mass as we need volume, hence a third dimension, for mass surely. If nothing has mass then it should be possible to travel faster than the speed of light. In a 2d universe, a lot of the basic laws of physics, we hold dear, just break, don't they? Steve On 30 October 2010 09:01, JULIAN TOPOLSKI jj...@msn.com wrote: Researchers at Fermilab are building a “holometer” so they can disprove everything you thought you knew about the universe. More specifically, they are trying to either prove or disprove the somewhat mind-bending notion that the third dimension doesn’t exist at all, and that the 3-D universe we think we live in is nothing more than a hologram. To do so, they are building the most precise clock ever created. For the entire article go to this link: http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-10/fermilab-building-holometer-determine-if-universe-just-hologram JJT ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Time of death-Again
We seem to have moved from natural death to an engineered version in an attempt to document the exact time of death and we are still not time-nuts close :) Steve On 28 October 2010 16:42, Michael Conlen michael.con...@ncf.edu wrote: Remember though, they were flying low to stay under radar and evade the enemy while going for their secondary target because they couldn't reach the first. They dropped from a pretty low target, and probably didn't care since as far as they could tell the world wasn't going to be worth living in if they got back. On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 6:51 PM, Perry Sandeen sandee...@yahoo.com wrote: Gents, Wrote: If you want a sub-microsecond time of death, sit on a bomb like Major T. J. King Kong in Dr. Strangelove, and get your friends to time and triangulate the prompt radiation. That should be good to a few 10's of nanoseconds. Absolutely Not So! The H-Bombs are slowed by parachutes so the bomber can get away. The outside temperature for a B-52 at operating altitude over Russia would likely be at least minus 60 degrees F. Major T, since he was wearing an indoor uniform, would become a solid block of ice before the bomb went off so his TOD has a variance of time between when became a solid chunk of ice and the time of instant defrosting. This could be 30 to 60 seconds. Totally un-acceptable accuracy for even the cadet grade newbe time-nut ;) Why, anyone accepting such an error would have to answer to the Coca Cola company distributor at Burpelson Air Force Base. Carpay Diem, Carpell Tunnel-Whatever Regards, Perrier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Time of death-Again
One thing we should bear in mind that our tombstone timestamp should have things like the timezone, and calendar in use, references, such that future people can determine the exact point in time of our death. In fact, basing the timestamp on some true reference point would better than about 2000 years after some event happened on earth as archaeologists from other words coming to the Earth in the future would be left to figure out this arbitrary time event. I would propose that we relate the year portion (which is the LSB and most important) to some celestial event thereby making it possible to document this easily for future life-forms to determine. The whole year/date thing really should be made secular as there is no place for religion in the governance of society. Steve On 28 October 2010 22:19, Arnold Tibus arnold.ti...@gmx.de wrote: Fellow time nut(s), isn't this not going too far, going to be disgusting and perhaps wounding feelings? No better things in mind? Could we stop this and come back to the roots,talk and discuss about real physical and technical time concerning points instead? It's not everybody's humor to philosophize about wars, H-bombs, Electric Chairs etc. and what is the effective way to kill life faster... This is my opinion and perhaps I am not alone. Am I wrong? Regards, Arnold Am 28.10.2010 02:47, schrieb William H. Fite: Mein Fuhrer, I can valk...er...I can time. On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 6:51 PM, Perry Sandeen sandee...@yahoo.com wrote: Gents, Wrote: If you want a sub-microsecond time of death, sit on a bomb like Major T. J. King Kong in Dr. Strangelove, and get your friends to time and triangulate the prompt radiation. That should be good to a few 10's of nanoseconds. Absolutely Not So! The H-Bombs are slowed by parachutes so the bomber can get away. The outside temperature for a B-52 at operating altitude over Russia would likely be at least minus 60 degrees F. Major T, since he was wearing an indoor uniform, would become a solid block of ice before the bomb went off so his TOD has a variance of time between when became a solid chunk of ice and the time of instant defrosting. This could be 30 to 60 seconds. Totally un-acceptable accuracy for even the cadet grade newbe time-nut ;) Why, anyone accepting such an error would have to answer to the Coca Cola company distributor at Burpelson Air Force Base. Carpay Diem, Carpell Tunnel-Whatever Regards, Perrier ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Time of death-Again
On 29 October 2010 03:00, Marshall Eubanks t...@americafree.tv wrote: On Oct 28, 2010, at 9:30 AM, jimlux wrote: Steve Rooke wrote: One thing we should bear in mind that our tombstone timestamp should have things like the timezone, and calendar in use, references, such that future people can determine the exact point in time of our death. In fact, basing the timestamp on some true reference point would better than about 2000 years after some event happened on earth as archaeologists from other words coming to the Earth in the future would be left to figure out this arbitrary time event. I would propose that we relate the year portion (which is the LSB and most important) to some celestial event thereby making it possible to document this easily for future life-forms to determine. The whole year/date thing really should be made secular as there is no place for religion in the governance of society. Steve Is this not the same problem we all face when specifying an absolute time? Is it TAI? GPS? UTC? etc. And, then, if you are moving, the local time offsettime relative to some reference might be different at different times. I think this is a sort of relativity question, isn't it? That is, you just have to pick some place/time, and reference everything else to that. So which astronomical event do you want use as your reference (e.g. a T=0 epoch)and is it sufficiently well determined that you can figure it out later? It's all well and good, for instance, to use noon on January 1st, 1900 or something as your time zero, but that's hardly a universally available reference point. Pulsar timing. List 20 or so millisecond pulsars with their current period (don't forget to include information on the definition of the second!) and their spin down rate, and you should be able to time things for some millions of years (to some level). This was the technique used in the Voyager Golden Record, except we didn't know about millisecond pulsars back then. I would also include the spin axis offsets and rotational period of the Earth and Mars, which would also be useful and would make future geophysicists happy. Or how about the alignment of a large number of the planets/sun/moon that would only occur once in a blue moon but has occurred at some point in the, hopefully, near lifetime of this planet. It would then be possible to depict this event symbolically on the tombstone. Steve Regards Marshall ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Time of death-Again
How about some alignment of the planets that has occurred in the lifetime of the Earth but only happens infrequently on a celestial timescale. Steve On 29 October 2010 15:01, Max Robinson m...@maxsmusicplace.com wrote: I was thinking of the nova event itself as a reference point in time. Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: Marshall Eubanks t...@americafree.tv To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Time of death-Again On Oct 28, 2010, at 2:05 PM, Max Robinson wrote: How about the crab supernova. Msec pulsars are much more stable - see http://arxiv.org/pdf/0911.5534 for some comparisons. Regards Marshall Regards. Max. K 4 O D S. Email: m...@maxsmusicplace.com Transistor site http://www.funwithtransistors.net Vacuum tube site: http://www.funwithtubes.net Music site: http://www.maxsmusicplace.com To subscribe to the fun with transistors group send an email to. funwithtransistors-subscr...@yahoogroups.com To subscribe to the fun with tubes group send an email to, funwithtubes-subscr...@yahoogroups.com - Original Message - From: jimlux jim...@earthlink.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Time of death-Again Steve Rooke wrote: One thing we should bear in mind that our tombstone timestamp should have things like the timezone, and calendar in use, references, such that future people can determine the exact point in time of our death. In fact, basing the timestamp on some true reference point would better than about 2000 years after some event happened on earth as archaeologists from other words coming to the Earth in the future would be left to figure out this arbitrary time event. I would propose that we relate the year portion (which is the LSB and most important) to some celestial event thereby making it possible to document this easily for future life-forms to determine. The whole year/date thing really should be made secular as there is no place for religion in the governance of society. Steve Is this not the same problem we all face when specifying an absolute time? Is it TAI? GPS? UTC? etc. And, then, if you are moving, the local time offsettime relative to some reference might be different at different times. I think this is a sort of relativity question, isn't it? That is, you just have to pick some place/time, and reference everything else to that. So which astronomical event do you want use as your reference (e.g. a T=0 epoch)and is it sufficiently well determined that you can figure it out later? It's all well and good, for instance, to use noon on January 1st, 1900 or something as your time zero, but that's hardly a universally available reference point. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Determining Time-Nut infection severity
On 26 October 2010 12:07, Ed, k1ggi k1...@comcast.net wrote: -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of William H. Fite snip So.I see no way in which one could determine with precision when life ends. At least not with the precision that this group would consider even minimally acceptable. snip On this list, acceptability is all according to the exponent. Just fix the TOD within an hour and you are certain to be at E-14 on the cosmological scale. Spectacular. Plus you get to use the word cosmological. Ah, the voice of reason! Steve, zl3tuv Ed, k1ggi ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Determining Time-Nut infection severity.
As usual, it seems I was incorrect. At least in the US legal system, clinical death is considered to be the cessation of blood flow due to heart failure and similar due to breathing having stopped. This, apparently, means one can be brain dead but still considered to be alive. Thinking about it now, I'm sure I have met some people who fit that description :) It's also interesting how long one can be clinically dead but still be revived, depending upon the circumstances and the treatment one receives at the time of medical intervention. To this extent, modification of the TOD hat should in fact timestamp the cessation of the heartbeat and then trigger peltier devices to cool the brain area in an attempt to prolong the resuscitation window. Perhaps one of the propeller hats could be retrofitted with a motor which engages at the time of clinical death and thence cools the brain area to effect this process as well. Logically though, complications may occur in determining the time of death if one is subjected to multiple resuscitations eventually culminating in a final determination of legal death at some period after. Apparently the medical profession has a saying that you ain’t dead until your warm and dead, as one may be successfully resuscitated, but damage caused by Ischemia can result irreversible death some time later. To this end, I think I'll have the headstone engraved with Died: 21st century'ish (approx date can be determined by carbon dating). Also, I will donate the fertile earth from the 6' hole of my internment to the worthy cause of growing food for the hungry and back-fill the hole with all the expensive stuff I have accumulated during my life. To this end, future archaeologists may be able to determine that I had some interest in knowing the precise time and frequency. I'm sure they will chuckle as they look down at their $1 gas-station wrist-watches which are kept in time via an embedded oscillator disciplined by sub-atomic strings, being accurate to 1E-99, and wonder what the dickens all the fuss was about. As usual, please apply a liberal quantity of :) to my posts. Steve On 25 October 2010 16:26, Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com wrote: On 25 October 2010 14:21, Heathkid heath...@heathkid.com wrote: This sounds like a new project/kit... a TOD clock. Simple... monitor heartbeat (easy enough and I know it's not the only thing involved but if it stops... so do you usually... but KISS should be kept in mind for this or it gets WAY to complicated). Heartbeat and PPS... with GPS and/or/with a small Rb standard... Ticker stops ticking... *timestamp*! There we go. So, who's going to do the TOD kit? I'd prefer something very small and not obvious (like a watch that simply STOPS with a micro USB port to download the *accurate/precise* time stamp of TOD). Easy enough? But isn't the clinical definition of death, brain death, as the heart may stop but the person be resuscitated tens of seconds later. In our terms, tens of seconds is like a lifetime so heatbeat is out as the TOD metric. I would propose we develop a hat with inbuilt electrodes that touch the scalp and measure brain activity. Once this has decayed to the level as clinically defined as brain dead, a timestamp should be made against a standard that is reasonably accurate to the degree of uncertainty of the death event, IE. it is likely that the brain activity will stop instantly with such a sharp cutoff as to be less than a ms, us or whatever. The hat would include an integrated GPSDO built upon a flexible PCB board design with integrated path antenna positioned at the top. This could easily be powered by solar cells charging very thin lithium ion flexible batteries embedded in the hat. Of course the hat needs to be worn 24x7 so it would have to be of a design that lends itself to sleeping hours as well therefore being a sleeping cap so something like a beanie may be a starting point. Extensions to the design may be a time display which would, of course, double as the TOD display for those concerned with your internment and the engraving of your tombstone. A PPS and disciplined oscillator connection could also be incorporated as a form of mobile reference for the wearer. As for cleaning, two of such hats would be owned by the user with one in the wash while the other is being worn. Of course, careful planning and design needs to be taken in the choice of circuitry and construction so as to all the hat to be cleaned. There is, of course, the faint possibility of death during the swapping of but some careful planning of how to do the hat swap may alleviate this window. Steve Yes, I'm infected but probably worse than most. If you've seen my list of gear and know that I don't even had the TBolt running yet (and have only powered up one of my Rb standards... and have a LOT of kits to build etc.) you'd probably ALL place my TOD pretty quickly. ;) - Original Message - From
Re: [time-nuts] Determining Time-Nut infection severity.
On 25 October 2010 14:21, Heathkid heath...@heathkid.com wrote: This sounds like a new project/kit... a TOD clock. Simple... monitor heartbeat (easy enough and I know it's not the only thing involved but if it stops... so do you usually... but KISS should be kept in mind for this or it gets WAY to complicated). Heartbeat and PPS... with GPS and/or/with a small Rb standard... Ticker stops ticking... *timestamp*! There we go. So, who's going to do the TOD kit? I'd prefer something very small and not obvious (like a watch that simply STOPS with a micro USB port to download the *accurate/precise* time stamp of TOD). Easy enough? But isn't the clinical definition of death, brain death, as the heart may stop but the person be resuscitated tens of seconds later. In our terms, tens of seconds is like a lifetime so heatbeat is out as the TOD metric. I would propose we develop a hat with inbuilt electrodes that touch the scalp and measure brain activity. Once this has decayed to the level as clinically defined as brain dead, a timestamp should be made against a standard that is reasonably accurate to the degree of uncertainty of the death event, IE. it is likely that the brain activity will stop instantly with such a sharp cutoff as to be less than a ms, us or whatever. The hat would include an integrated GPSDO built upon a flexible PCB board design with integrated path antenna positioned at the top. This could easily be powered by solar cells charging very thin lithium ion flexible batteries embedded in the hat. Of course the hat needs to be worn 24x7 so it would have to be of a design that lends itself to sleeping hours as well therefore being a sleeping cap so something like a beanie may be a starting point. Extensions to the design may be a time display which would, of course, double as the TOD display for those concerned with your internment and the engraving of your tombstone. A PPS and disciplined oscillator connection could also be incorporated as a form of mobile reference for the wearer. As for cleaning, two of such hats would be owned by the user with one in the wash while the other is being worn. Of course, careful planning and design needs to be taken in the choice of circuitry and construction so as to all the hat to be cleaned. There is, of course, the faint possibility of death during the swapping of but some careful planning of how to do the hat swap may alleviate this window. Steve Yes, I'm infected but probably worse than most. If you've seen my list of gear and know that I don't even had the TBolt running yet (and have only powered up one of my Rb standards... and have a LOT of kits to build etc.) you'd probably ALL place my TOD pretty quickly. ;) - Original Message - From: Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2010 5:03 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Determining Time-Nut infection severity. On 10/24/2010 10:50 PM, Mark J. Blair wrote: On Oct 24, 2010, at 1:44 PM, Richard H McCorkle wrote: The disease will continue to progress until ultimately all of the patients personal time and money are exhausted or they die. One can only hope that the local coroner is also a Time-Nut, so that time of death can be determined with suitable accuracy and precision. Does anybody know how many bits of precision are used on tombstones these days? The true report would not be correct without a traceability certificate and confidence interval for the TOD indication, motivated by the measurement inaccurancies and established TDEV measures. Naturally the next of kin doesn't really care, as they now can dump all the junk collected in the basement. The real mourning of the deceased from fellow time-nuts comes when they realize just how much of precious gear has been lost forever. Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Determining Time-Nut infection severity
Well, you don't own boat-anchors any more, they are burial-at-sea-anchors now. Steve On 25 October 2010 15:54, x...@darksmile.net wrote: A valid point has been brought up. What does a Time-Nut do with his equipment when he dies. Actually, I am serious here. My little girl, who just turned four, is already an expert with the soldering iron and she can name most components. Actually she is very good with microwave components and she can name all the waveguide types, magnetrons, attenuators etc, etc.. So, I am lucky I guess (so far). I hope she will grow up to be a proper EE like her Dad. But what if she is not? What am I to do with my equipment if I go to the big Atomic Clock in the Sky? I would definitely not sell it while I was alive! What we need here is maybe a Time-Nut Museum. A place where our trusted equipment can go and spend their remaining days with other equipment like them. Otherwise, I just might request to be buried all my stuff. Like in a small mausoleum. I am only half joking! George, N2FGX P.S. I know I haven't said anything here for a while. Too busy raising a little EE and working. 73's to all! Quoting Daniel Schultz n8...@usa.net: But what about the other date on the tombstone? You would need to work out the calibration of the clock in the delivery room on your 0th birthday, and hope that your mother's doctor was also a time nut.. One can only hope that the local coroner is also a Time-Nut, so that time of death can be determined with suitable accuracy and precision. Does anybody know how many bits of precision are used on tombstones these days? ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] OT: Christchurch NZ Quake Map
On 9 September 2010 21:20, d.sei...@comcast.net wrote: Brings back memories- I was on the west coast of the south island in 1990, leaning against a large log on the beach very close to the water line at sunset, when a quake hit. Being from California, it was fun because I was used to experiencing quakes in buildings, cars, etc; but I had never felt one in such a natural setting. Kind of hard to explain, but it was a very other-worldly experience. And then all of a sudden you watch the tide go out a long way quite rapidly and then you run like hell up the nearest hill :) Steve -Dave - Original Message - From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wednesday, September 8, 2010 6:16:45 PM Subject: [time-nuts] OT: Christchurch NZ Quake Map Sorry this is a bit OT but various people have shown interest in what is happening over here so you might like to look at this animated map showing the progress of the quakes in chronological order. This was designed and produced by Paul Nicholls of the University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand. http://www.christchurchquakemap.co.nz/ Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New Zealand, Iceland, Haiti
On 8 September 2010 12:49, jimlux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: Kiwi Geoff wrote: Brooke Clarke wrote: When you look at the time difference between the recent events on a geologic scale you could say they all happened at the same time. Hi Brooke, I'm writing from my home in Christchurch, New Zealand. Local Time of the event is an important variable. Last Saturday we had a 7.1 Richter magnitude event here, which was higher than that of Haiti (where there were 230,000 deaths). We had no loss of life in Christchurch mainly because it happened at 4:35 am local time, and because of our building code, as per: http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/4096880/Why-we-re-not-Haiti We are still experiencing magnitude 5 aftershocks here as I speak, and for those who like graphs, here is a live feed of the seismograph from Christchurch. http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/drums/mqz-drum.html I now know my home can withstand a magnitude 7.1 earthquake, but it is a test that many houses in Christchurch have failed. What you really want to know is the surface motion *at your house* during the quake. The Northridge earthquake (6.7) was striking because of the radical difference in damage from houses that were close together. Subsurface geology had a big effect. I'm about 15 km from the epicenter, and we had essentially no damage or even permanent effects (although it certainly woke us all up). A friend who also lives 15 km away, but in a different direction, lost all their dishes and glassware when they were launched across the room ( as were he and his girlfriend). The difference was that I had a strong motion of less than 0.1 g and he had 1 g.. peak surface acceleration (1.7g) was some 7km from the epicenter. For the most part, the damage level was continuous (e.g. adjacent houses were damaged about the same amount) but there were some striking anomalies that could not be explained by construction technique, etc. It's theorized that there were reflections and refractions in the subsurface structures that resulted in some places with peaks and nulls. That's aside from things like subsidence and liquefaction, which have big effects on damage. One point to understand is that the original 7.1 quake was just 10km below the surface but we have been experiencing a lot of after-shocks that are up to 5.4 which have been closer the the surface and closer to Christchurch as well. This morning at around 8am was a 5.1 that was just across the other side from the harbour and just 6km deep. These after-shocks seem to be doing more damage than the initial quake as more and more buildings and roads are affected. Believe me, even though it's only a 5.1, when it's that close and shallow, it feels like a massive shake. There have been about 150 after-shocks so far and each days max quake is well over 5. The official estimate of the damage has now doubled to $4bn and it looks like it will take more like years to put everything right here. Certainly the building codes here have saved peoples lives but the fact that we reside on a gravel bed has still rendered a lot of building damage, even to new properties, due to the liquefaction and uneven subsidence. But watch this space as many people fear another big one may occur, as there are new quakes occurring which are not on the same fault line as the initial ones. Anyone got a spare room :) Steve ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Steve's new QTH...
On 9 September 2010 00:51, Rob Kimberley r...@timing-consultants.com wrote: Got this post 5 times - you still getting aftershocks?? That must be level 5 on the posting scale:) Don't know why you got 5 copies of it as I had no problem sending it but my apologies to all if you've received multiple copies of this. And yes, we are still receiving after-shocks but they seem to have quietened down in the last 24 hours. Steve :-) Rob K -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rooke Sent: 07 September 2010 11:06 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Steve's new QTH... Burt, On 8 September 2010 01:45, Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net wrote: Steve, Depending on the type of antenna used for your GPS, you might want to check the Zenith or vertical angle, and if possible, compare that to pre-quake positioning. Your antenna may now be seeing a change in multipath from some nearby environmental change (no pun intended under the circumstances) that could cause a difference in reflected signals arriving at the antenna. With that in mind I've just changed the default 10 deg elevation mask angle to 30 deg and will see what effects that has. Looking closely at the antenna mounting I cannot see any change in it's angle or position but there may have been some movement of this area as we are on an artificial bank abutting the wetland wildfowl park. What I really need is a real GPS survey system to determine my correct location. Many years ago I ran into a combined group on Mt. Wilson, our local broadcast farm in the mountains, from Cal Tech and MIT that was measuring the movement between Southern California mountains using lazers. While this was scientifically fascinating, it gave me the willies. Yes, it really brings it home that we live on just the skin of a rice pudding. This sort of thing must be a nightmare for the ground stations in control of the GPS system. What happens if the 0 deg meridian (used to be the Greenwich meridian) physically moves, do they account for this I wonder. Considering that the American continent and Europe/Africa are constantly moving apart, and Asia and the Americas are moving closer, this must mean that the position of basically most places on the Earth are constantly changing anyway. Makes you feel like saying, where am I today. 73, Steve ZL3TUV Burt, K6OQK Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 18:08:31 +1200 From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast Well, Steve has been experiencing a LOT of after-shocks, some of which are still big enough to move things around and I found I had to grab hold of my cup of tea to stop it shaking onto the floor last night. In fact these after-shocks are still opening up new cracks in roads and causing buildings to fall. As for my height position, I have run a few surveys but I'm getting varying readings and I wonder if the after-shocks are messing up the survey results. The latest one which was during a fairly stable period was 6.8 MSL. The mast could have sunk a bit or even this whole area could have done as I live on reclaimed marsh-land. My Mothers 3 year old house looks like it has sunk a bit at one and and risen at the other, ie. it looks like it has tipped slightly as her house is built on a concrete pontoon. It wouldn't surprise me if they adjust the height of MSL but I would have thought they would have moved it the other way in an attempt to forestall fears of the effects of Global Warming. Regards from Quake City, Steve Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] OT: Christchurch NZ Quake Map
Sorry this is a bit OT but various people have shown interest in what is happening over here so you might like to look at this animated map showing the progress of the quakes in chronological order. This was designed and produced by Paul Nicholls of the University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand. http://www.christchurchquakemap.co.nz/ Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
Well, Steve has been experiencing a LOT of after-shocks, some of which are still big enough to move things around and I found I had to grab hold of my cup of tea to stop it shaking onto the floor last night. In fact these after-shocks are still opening up new cracks in roads and causing buildings to fall. As for my height position, I have run a few surveys but I'm getting varying readings and I wonder if the after-shocks are messing up the survey results. The latest one which was during a fairly stable period was 6.8 MSL. The mast could have sunk a bit or even this whole area could have done as I live on reclaimed marsh-land. My Mothers 3 year old house looks like it has sunk a bit at one and and risen at the other, ie. it looks like it has tipped slightly as her house is built on a concrete pontoon. It wouldn't surprise me if they adjust the height of MSL but I would have thought they would have moved it the other way in an attempt to forestall fears of the effects of Global Warming. Regards from Quake City, Steve On 7 September 2010 15:24, Bill Hawkins b...@iaxs.net wrote: Ah, well, Steve's message didn't appear here. There are several possibilities: Steve's mast really did sink 1.3 metres. His continent really did sink 1.3m. Some bureaucrat adjusted MSL by 1.3m quietly because it would be politically incorrect to admit that the globe was actually warming. We have some idea of how time is adjusted for GPS. Does anyone know how and when MSL is adjusted? I mean, 1.3m is quite a lot. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Thomas A. Frank Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 7:57 PM On Sep 5, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Steve Rooke wrote: Meant to add, my Z3805 always used to report that the antenna hight was +7.50m (MSL) but now it is saying +6.20 (MSL), if you believe that. Steve That might be something worth investigating. After all, if it's true, that's not a good trend... Tom Frank, KA2CDK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
Magnus, On 7 September 2010 19:49, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: Steve, On 09/07/2010 08:08 AM, Steve Rooke wrote: Well, Steve has been experiencing a LOT of after-shocks, some of which are still big enough to move things around and I found I had to grab hold of my cup of tea to stop it shaking onto the floor last night. In fact these after-shocks are still opening up new cracks in roads and causing buildings to fall. As for my height position, I have run a few surveys but I'm getting varying readings and I wonder if the after-shocks are messing up the survey results. The latest one which was during a fairly stable period was 6.8 MSL. The mast could have sunk a bit or even this whole area could have done as I live on reclaimed marsh-land. My Mothers 3 year old house looks like it has sunk a bit at one and and risen at the other, ie. it looks like it has tipped slightly as her house is built on a concrete pontoon. It wouldn't surprise me if they adjust the height of MSL but I would have thought they would have moved it the other way in an attempt to forestall fears of the effects of Global Warming. I keep wondering if you have not had a change in your multipath environment. Multipath can cause biases like that... If things have been dislocated a bit sideways and such, the vector sum may be quite different... I still can't get a stable reading from doing repeated surveys so something is effecting the readings as they used to come out at 7.5m MSL reliably. The latest one was 5.4m MSL and I'm having trouble believing that. As regards a change in multipath, I really don't see how that could be the case as we have not had any lateral movement of the immediate surrounding environment and I'm pretty clear of obstacles to the North as my garden leads onto a wildlife reserve with hardly any trees nearby. Cheers, Steve Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
I've seen news coverage of that field in Darfield and it's just like a giant has torn each end of the field apart with half of it going one way and the other end going in the opposite direction. There are still new cracks and crevasses opening up each day as the magnitude of the after-shocks are reaching 5.4 on a daily basis. A geologist said that it's generally the case that the highest after-shock will be 1 unit below the peak so we should be prepared for a 6.1 at some time soon. The only good thing about this is that the Earth hasn't moved so much for me in ages :) Cheers from Quake City (it used to be called The Garden City but they have renamed it now), Steve On 7 September 2010 20:19, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote: sar10...@gmail.com said: The mast could have sunk a bit or even this whole area could have done as I live on reclaimed marsh-land. My Mothers 3 year old house looks like it has sunk a bit at one and and risen at the other, ie. it looks like it has tipped slightly as her house is built on a concrete pontoon. It's not off scale to move a meter vertically, but I can't find anything that makes me think it's likely in this case. If something like that happened due to construction on a marsh, I'd expect there would be a lot of disruption on the local surface, that is the local vertical displacement would not be uniform. But you wouldn't see that if a large corner of a plate moved up or down. If there was a large vertical displacement, we should be able to find something in a news report, or maybe some better info will appear in a week or month after the local geology geeks have collected more data and analyzed it carefully. (The data from the Chile quake was very very good, but they had a major data gathering setup in exactly the right spot.) This news story at: http://preview.tinyurl.com/24y8e7a http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1309194/ New-Zealand-earthquake-moves-Earths-surface-11ft-right.html says 11 feet horizontal and Roger Bates, whose dairy farm at Darfield was close to the quake's epicentre 19 miles west of Christchurch, said the new faultline had ripped up the surface across his land. `The whole dairy farm is like the sea now, with real soil waves right across the dairy farm. `We don't have physical holes (but) where the fault goes through it's been raised a metre or metre and a half.' Another URL: http://preview.tinyurl.com/3xnf43u http://www.gns.cri.nz/Home/Learning/Science-Topics/Earthquakes/ New-Zealand-Earthquakes/Where-were-NZs-largest-earthquakes says: The biggest NZ earthquake - magnitude 8.2 Wairarapa earthquake in 1855. On an international scale, the 1855 earthquake is of major significance in terms of the area affected and the amount of fault movement. About 5000km2 of land was shifted vertically during the quake. The maximum uplift was 6.4m near Turakirae Head, east of Wellington. The maximum horizontal movement along the fault was about 18m. This is the largest displacement along a vertical fault line ever recorded! Ahh... Here is a URL that says variable vertical movement of up to 1 m http://preview.tinyurl.com/3ysb4ta http://all-geo.org/highlyallochthonous/2010/09/ tectonics-of-the-m7-earthquake-near-christchurch-new-zealand/ Time sink warning, there are good links on that page. In particular, lots of good pictures here: http://www.crashbang.co.nz/quake040910/index.html For the 1989 Loma Prieta (San Francisco) quake, the local photographers donated lots of good pictures and they made a couple of picture books. Profits went to the needy. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Steve's new QTH...
Burt, On 8 September 2010 01:45, Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net wrote: Steve, Depending on the type of antenna used for your GPS, you might want to check the Zenith or vertical angle, and if possible, compare that to pre-quake positioning. Your antenna may now be seeing a change in multipath from some nearby environmental change (no pun intended under the circumstances) that could cause a difference in reflected signals arriving at the antenna. With that in mind I've just changed the default 10 deg elevation mask angle to 30 deg and will see what effects that has. Looking closely at the antenna mounting I cannot see any change in it's angle or position but there may have been some movement of this area as we are on an artificial bank abutting the wetland wildfowl park. What I really need is a real GPS survey system to determine my correct location. Many years ago I ran into a combined group on Mt. Wilson, our local broadcast farm in the mountains, from Cal Tech and MIT that was measuring the movement between Southern California mountains using lazers. While this was scientifically fascinating, it gave me the willies. Yes, it really brings it home that we live on just the skin of a rice pudding. This sort of thing must be a nightmare for the ground stations in control of the GPS system. What happens if the 0 deg meridian (used to be the Greenwich meridian) physically moves, do they account for this I wonder. Considering that the American continent and Europe/Africa are constantly moving apart, and Asia and the Americas are moving closer, this must mean that the position of basically most places on the Earth are constantly changing anyway. Makes you feel like saying, where am I today. 73, Steve ZL3TUV Burt, K6OQK Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 18:08:31 +1200 From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast Well, Steve has been experiencing a LOT of after-shocks, some of which are still big enough to move things around and I found I had to grab hold of my cup of tea to stop it shaking onto the floor last night. In fact these after-shocks are still opening up new cracks in roads and causing buildings to fall. As for my height position, I have run a few surveys but I'm getting varying readings and I wonder if the after-shocks are messing up the survey results. The latest one which was during a fairly stable period was 6.8 MSL. The mast could have sunk a bit or even this whole area could have done as I live on reclaimed marsh-land. My Mothers 3 year old house looks like it has sunk a bit at one and and risen at the other, ie. it looks like it has tipped slightly as her house is built on a concrete pontoon. It wouldn't surprise me if they adjust the height of MSL but I would have thought they would have moved it the other way in an attempt to forestall fears of the effects of Global Warming. Regards from Quake City, Steve Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
On 8 September 2010 01:23, Stanley Reynolds stanley_reyno...@yahoo.com wrote: Yes we do need leap-Centimeters for MSL :-D Pilot to co-pilot: Well the instruments say we should have landed by now... Steve Stanley snip Some bureaucrat adjusted MSL by 1.3m quietly because it would be politically incorrect to admit that the globe was actually warming. We have some idea of how time is adjusted for GPS. Does anyone know how and when MSL is adjusted? I mean, 1.3m is quite a lot. Bill Hawkins -Original Message- From: Thomas A. Frank Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 7:57 PM On Sep 5, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Steve Rooke wrote: Meant to add, my Z3805 always used to report that the antenna hight was +7.50m (MSL) but now it is saying +6.20 (MSL), if you believe that. Steve That might be something worth investigating. After all, if it's true, that's not a good trend... Tom Frank, KA2CDK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
On 8 September 2010 01:38, jimlux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: You could easily have a displacement of a meter or more.. The (M7+) Landers earthquake here in Southern California a few years back had a lateral displacement of 10 meters or so and vertical displacements of a meter. If there's any soil subsidence, that would also account for a lot http://all-geo.org/highlyallochthonous/2010/09/tectonics-of-the-m7-earthquake-near-christchurch-new-zealand/ The paragraph that says The most striking feature of this map is the section of the Alpine fault in the central South Island that has not ruptured in the last couple of centuries – which suggests there might be a fair amount of strain belt up waiting to be released. is quite a worry for us as they predict we are well due for a significant movement of the Alpine fault and it will be a major event. Maybe it's time to move :) Steve has a nifty picture: the classic aerial shot of a hedgerow/treeline with obvious displacement (about halfway down the page) New Zealand geologists have already identified a 13km fault trace with 3-4 m of right lateral, strike-slip offset, and variable vertical movement of up to 1 m. Also there was this in a page linked from the above: Deformation Portable GPS instruments are planned to be deployed on September 6 (Monday) to re-occupy GPS 40 - 50 sites in the region looking for changes. GNS scientists will be joined by colleagues from Land Information New Zealand (LINZ). A preliminary estimate of the McQueen's Valley (MQZG) co-seismic displacement is 135 mm at about 300 degrees azimuth. This permanent receiver is located on Banks Peninsula. This result is consistent with a magnitude 7.1 earthquake on a vertical strike-slip fault at the location where the geologists have found surface rupture, but it is only one point and it would be consistent with many other scenarios as well. We can expect displacements of 200+ mm at a number of the temporary GPS stations we are planning to visit, and there is one station in particular that may be within a few kilometres of the surface rupture and thus have a much higher displacement. It wouldn't surprise me if they adjust the height of MSL but I would have thought they would have moved it the other way in an attempt to forestall fears of the effects of Global Warming. Regards from Quake City, Steve ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New Zealand, Iceland, Haiti
On 8 September 2010 06:38, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: On 09/07/2010 05:13 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message4c8651e7.1080...@att.net, Brooke Clarke writes: All the subject locations are on the edge of the Pacific plate. Iceland ? On the edge of the *Pacific* plate ? Have I missed some serious tektonic activity last night ? No. Iceland is technically on two different plates... the North- American plate and the Euroasian plate. I heard it was a great place to buy real estate as it straddles the two plates which are separating and hence your land area grows :) Steve So it is not on ONE plate and none of the plates it is on is the Pacific plate. PS. Fascinated about the danish manned space-jump exercises in the Baltic sea. Wonders about how their trajectory care about the ship routes around Bornholm. Ah well. http://www.copenhagensuborbitals.com/index.php Cheers, Magnus ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
On 5 September 2010 04:42, Rob Kimberley r...@timing-consultants.com wrote: Just a thought, as you are in southern hemisphere, wouldn't you see more birds facing North? Oops! I really meant North. Well spotted that man. My satellite azimuth/elevation chart looks quite typical to text-book style. My GPSDOs still seem to be recovering from the long power outage caused by the earthquake here early Saturday morning but the stats seem to be settling down again. My timing gear and antenna were unaffected but it sure moved some of the heavy HP instruments that I have piled up on my workbench and demolished my computer rack, but luckily everything seems to be working OK. The only thing that seems to be at fault is my broadband which is playing up now and I wonder if the telephone lines have been damaged in some way. Cheers, Steve Rob K -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Steve Rooke Sent: 03 September 2010 5:32 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast If your nearby houses and obstructions are not high, IE. if the houses there are single story, you may be able to get away with what I have done. Instead of fixing something on the house, I've attached a couple of antenna to the top of one of my washing line poles in the garden as this faces South (I'm in the Southern Hemisphere) and I get an average of 7-8 sats every day and up to 12 at night. It makes any maintenance easy, if you get any snow it is easy to clear at that height, there is much less windage if your subject to strong winds and, if you don't use your washing line, the size of the poles make them quite rigid so you don't suffer a lot of noise that you would high up on a thin pole. Just a thought. Steve On 3 September 2010 12:46, Charles P. Steinmetz charles_steinm...@lavabit.com wrote: I'm curious what the best freestanding mast is for a timing antenna (think Lucent timing antenna or marine mushroom GPS antenna -- light and pretty small). The mast would have its highest support at rooftop or chimney-top level, and could extend from there as far downward as the ground with additional supports as required. Should be able to survive at least Category 2 winds and heavy snow and ice. What reasonably available mast material no more than, say, 3 in maximum cross-section would allow the most vertical extension above the highest support, and how much extension would that be? I'm thinking 10 feet of 2 or so thin-wall steel tube may be OK, but beyond that I don't know. Tubing is probably not the optimum shape, but I assume the availability of other engineering shapes (say, + cross-section) is likely to be limited. Ideas? Thanks, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
On 5 September 2010 22:29, Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz wrote: Magnus Danielson wrote: Hi Steve, On 09/05/2010 10:18 AM, Steve Rooke wrote: On 5 September 2010 04:42, Rob Kimberleyr...@timing-consultants.com wrote: Just a thought, as you are in southern hemisphere, wouldn't you see more birds facing North? Oops! I really meant North. Well spotted that man. My satellite azimuth/elevation chart looks quite typical to text-book style. My GPSDOs still seem to be recovering from the long power outage caused by the earthquake here early Saturday morning but the stats seem to be settling down again. My timing gear and antenna were unaffected but it sure moved some of the heavy HP instruments that I have piled up on my workbench and demolished my computer rack, but luckily everything seems to be working OK. The only thing that seems to be at fault is my broadband which is playing up now and I wonder if the telephone lines have been damaged in some way. I was about to ask how you New Zeeland time-nuts was doing and affected by the earthquake. Cheers, Magnus Along with other North Island dwelling TN's I didn't feel a thing. Apparently they felt it up to New Plymouth. I'm glad it did not hit Auckland as the effects could have been much worse. Down here were very hardy and a bit of a wobble is nothing :) Steve Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
Meant to add, my Z3805 always used to report that the antenna hight was +7.50m (MSL) but now it is saying +6.20 (MSL), if you believe that. Steve On 5 September 2010 23:56, Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com wrote: On 5 September 2010 22:29, Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz wrote: Magnus Danielson wrote: Hi Steve, On 09/05/2010 10:18 AM, Steve Rooke wrote: On 5 September 2010 04:42, Rob Kimberleyr...@timing-consultants.com wrote: Just a thought, as you are in southern hemisphere, wouldn't you see more birds facing North? Oops! I really meant North. Well spotted that man. My satellite azimuth/elevation chart looks quite typical to text-book style. My GPSDOs still seem to be recovering from the long power outage caused by the earthquake here early Saturday morning but the stats seem to be settling down again. My timing gear and antenna were unaffected but it sure moved some of the heavy HP instruments that I have piled up on my workbench and demolished my computer rack, but luckily everything seems to be working OK. The only thing that seems to be at fault is my broadband which is playing up now and I wonder if the telephone lines have been damaged in some way. I was about to ask how you New Zeeland time-nuts was doing and affected by the earthquake. Cheers, Magnus Along with other North Island dwelling TN's I didn't feel a thing. Apparently they felt it up to New Plymouth. I'm glad it did not hit Auckland as the effects could have been much worse. Down here were very hardy and a bit of a wobble is nothing :) Steve Bruce ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] New Zealand earthquake...
Burt, Thanks for your kind thoughts and I'm glad your family is OK. Yes, when you come here next, look me up and we can get together for a beer and a chin wag. 73, Steve ZL3TUV On 6 September 2010 02:00, Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net wrote: Steve, Glad to hear that you're all ok and that your equipment survived. We have family in Christchurch and they're also all ok. Next time we get over there we'll have to get together to poke and giggle. Burt, K6OQK From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast Oops! I really meant North. Well spotted that man. My satellite azimuth/elevation chart looks quite typical to text-book style. My GPSDOs still seem to be recovering from the long power outage caused by the earthquake here early Saturday morning but the stats seem to be settling down again. My timing gear and antenna were unaffected but it sure moved some of the heavy HP instruments that I have piled up on my workbench and demolished my computer rack, but luckily everything seems to be working OK. The only thing that seems to be at fault is my broadband which is playing up now and I wonder if the telephone lines have been damaged in some way. Cheers, Steve Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
On 3 September 2010 20:48, Neville Michie namic...@gmail.com wrote: You could try a box kite, or a tethered balloon. An interesting project would be a computer controlled kite servoed to hold a constant position. Now that would be be some project. They are actually making generators which are attached to balloons that go up into the jet streams to generate electricity. Even a relatively small unit can produce 2MW so you can make your own energy at the same time. Or a sky hook? What about a remote site with a radio or laser link to your QTH? The more ideas that you start with the more likely you will find a good solution. You could also attach a nice high gain amplifier to it too, just to make up for all the loss in the cable hanging down from it :) Cheers, Steve cheers, Neville Michie On 03/09/2010, at 3:08 PM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: Stanley wrote: ROHN 9H50 34 Foot Telescopic TV Wireless Antenna Push Up Mast Interesting suggestion. Rohn is well known to me, though I don't typically think of them for things like push-up masts. For those suggesting 6-10' of pipe, at my rooftop I get a reception cone of about 50 degrees elevation and above during the vegetated months (say, mid-March through mid-November), and about 30 degrees and above in the dead of winter, due mostly to dense tree cover that is 60-80 feet tall. So, I'd really need to get 20 feet + above the chimney (50+ feet above the ground) for a significant improvement. The suburban residential lot size doesn't leave me much to work with (no centrally-located tower, therefore no guys unless I negotiated easements with the neighbors, and Hell will never be that cold...). I doubt I could get a permit for 80' of Rohn 55. Maybe if I put a wind generator on it Thanks again, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Freestanding mast
If your nearby houses and obstructions are not high, IE. if the houses there are single story, you may be able to get away with what I have done. Instead of fixing something on the house, I've attached a couple of antenna to the top of one of my washing line poles in the garden as this faces South (I'm in the Southern Hemisphere) and I get an average of 7-8 sats every day and up to 12 at night. It makes any maintenance easy, if you get any snow it is easy to clear at that height, there is much less windage if your subject to strong winds and, if you don't use your washing line, the size of the poles make them quite rigid so you don't suffer a lot of noise that you would high up on a thin pole. Just a thought. Steve On 3 September 2010 12:46, Charles P. Steinmetz charles_steinm...@lavabit.com wrote: I'm curious what the best freestanding mast is for a timing antenna (think Lucent timing antenna or marine mushroom GPS antenna -- light and pretty small). The mast would have its highest support at rooftop or chimney-top level, and could extend from there as far downward as the ground with additional supports as required. Should be able to survive at least Category 2 winds and heavy snow and ice. What reasonably available mast material no more than, say, 3 in maximum cross-section would allow the most vertical extension above the highest support, and how much extension would that be? I'm thinking 10 feet of 2 or so thin-wall steel tube may be OK, but beyond that I don't know. Tubing is probably not the optimum shape, but I assume the availability of other engineering shapes (say, + cross-section) is likely to be limited. Ideas? Thanks, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Bulletin Board / Forum
Time to escape to the bunker. Steve On 25 August 2010 18:30, Stanley Reynolds stanley_reyno...@yahoo.com wrote: You can use www.timenuts.com to reach my forum, I can be reached here or there and several other places, all are welcome. Stanley - Original Message From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Wed, August 25, 2010 12:53:56 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Bulletin Board / Forum On 25 August 2010 17:43, erniepe...@aol.com wrote: Stanley, how about the TIME-GURU name? Or how about:- time-sane time-slow time-not-so-nuts time-nuts-beginners time-nuts-non-exclusive time-nuts-not-bruce time-for-a-change time-stupid-questions or even:- time-nuts-excluded We are in danger of ending up with a TekScopes2 group here and do we really want to fork the group. Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Bulletin Board / Forum
On 26 August 2010 06:37, Chuck Harris cfhar...@erols.com wrote: Magnus Danielson wrote: Stanley, On 08/25/2010 08:30 AM, Stanley Reynolds wrote: You can use www.timenuts.com to reach my forum, I can be reached here or there and several other places, all are welcome. I don't think it is a wise idea to create a forum. Don't expect me to participate. I don't think it is a wise idea to use time-nuts as name and DNS domain without John Ackermann's explicit approval. Best Regards, Magnus Yeah, it probably isn't a good idea to poach on a lawyer's trademarks. Is he trading under that name? Steve -Chuck Harris ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Bulletin Board / Forum
On 26 August 2010 07:09, WB6BNQ wb6...@cox.net wrote: Steve Rooke wrote: Magnus Yeah, it probably isn't a good idea to poach on a lawyer's trademarks. Is he trading under that name? Steve Sure ! By providing an Email list service under that name. But he makes no money out of this so you could not argue that his business is impacted. American: first resort, litigation. Englishman: last resort, going to court. American: first resort, war. Englishman: last resort, show of military strength. Steve BillWB6BNQ ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Bulletin Board / Forum
Bill, On 26 August 2010 12:27, WB6BNQ wb6...@cox.net wrote: Steve, That is true, but money is not everything and the argument of detriment to one's good name could be made. I don't see how this can be of detriment to one's good name? 73, Steve BillWB6BNQ -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Bulletin Board / Forum
On 25 August 2010 17:43, erniepe...@aol.com wrote: Stanley, how about the TIME-GURU name? Or how about:- time-sane time-slow time-not-so-nuts time-nuts-beginners time-nuts-non-exclusive time-nuts-not-bruce time-for-a-change time-stupid-questions or even:- time-nuts-excluded We are in danger of ending up with a TekScopes2 group here and do we really want to fork the group. Steve -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Phase noise measurement (was - no subject)
On 22 August 2010 00:07, Poul-Henning Kamp p...@phk.freebsd.dk wrote: In message 4a8e.56751f36.39a11...@aol.com, ewkeh...@aol.com writes: On all phase noise measurements I use AGM batteries. Be aware that chemical batteries can be incredibly noisy, in particular wet or semi-wet types. Dilithium Crystals are the only way to go on this. Just bolt a good sized one in the Warp drive and feed the cross-phase out though the interplanator and you get some really quiet power. Just be careful not to short it out or we will all have a bit of you come to visit us :) Steve It is not periodic noise, so for PN measurements with sensible averaging periods it probably does not matter. Poul-Henning -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PicTic Data
On 15 August 2010 17:01, Stanley Reynolds stanley_reyno...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks for looking at my data that was what I was fishing for all along :-) I was looking at the article: A Small Dual Mixer Time Difference (DMTD) Clock Measuring System W.J. Riley Richard posted And thinking it would be nice to do the DSS and Mixer boards to go with the pictic II. I have been speaking to Bill Riley about doing this myself and he has sent me all the board designs, software, etc. to enable one to be built. I can ask him if he is OK if I distribute this if you wish. Steve Or changing the Pictic II to use the Acam TDC GP2 Time to Digital Converter; 2 channel w/65 ps resolution now under $30. as Bruce suggested a while back. My wants sure exceed my cans ;-) Stanley - Original Message From: John Miles jmi...@pop.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sat, August 14, 2010 11:25:44 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PicTic Data John glad you are getting good results and have something to compare to. Back to me who doesn't have any knowns but lots of guessing. Attached is a run with a box cover over the pictic, run is shorter ~ 800 seconds but the box does look like it helps. I need to do a lot more testing but sometimes I just get excited :-) I imported your .txt file alongside the traces I captured. Assuming it was taken with 1 Hz on both START and STOP, it looks like the attached. You're getting the exact sort of results that I see if I feed both the START and STOP inputs at 1 Hz. My guess is that the onboard oscillator limits the performance in that case, since it has a lot of time to drift during the measurement if the two pulses occur close to 1 second apart. Even the 5370B looks much worse if driven with 1 Hz on both inputs than it does with 1 Hz at START and 10 MHz at STOP. So I think you're basically up and running OK. When I get around to trying a better clock, I'll also go back and see if the 1-pps x2 performance improves. It would be great if the next spin of the board could include sine-to-CMOS shapers for the input channels as well as an external clock input, for people who are working directly with RF signals as opposed to 1-pps. -- john, KE5FX - Original Message From: John Miles jmi...@pop.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sat, August 14, 2010 10:19:46 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PicTic Data A few preliminary measurements here (I'm working on getting some software support together): http://www.ke5fx.com/pictic.htm -- john, KE5FX -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com]on Behalf Of Stanley Reynolds Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 7:12 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PicTic Data My guess as to what the data may indicate is performance of the 10 Mhz 20PPM PICTIC internal oscillator, need to repeat test with precision 10Mhz and auto calibrate off. Fatness of the line/width maybe PICTIC error. Note graph seems to show me leaving the room and returning via the outside door. Not sure what the ~100 sec oscillations are, need to check a/c cycle time. Stanley ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] PicTic Data
On 16 August 2010 01:51, Stanley Reynolds stanley_reyno...@yahoo.com wrote: - Original Message From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sun, August 15, 2010 7:05:40 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PicTic Data On 15 August 2010 17:01, Stanley Reynolds stanley_reyno...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks for looking at my data that was what I was fishing for all along :-) I was looking at the article: A Small Dual Mixer Time Difference (DMTD) Clock Measuring System W.J. Riley Richard posted And thinking it would be nice to do the DSS and Mixer boards to go with the pictic II. I have been speaking to Bill Riley about doing this myself and he has sent me all the board designs, software, etc. to enable one to be built. I can ask him if he is OK if I distribute this if you wish. Steve snip Please do, I would be willing to do the PC boards if the demand makes if possible. I have asked Bill if he is OK with me sharing his design files further and will get back to you. I'd certainly be interested in some PCBs for this. Steve Stanley ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] Fwd: Fwd: PicTic Data
Stanley and Nigel, I have received the go ahead to distribute the Small DMTD project files from Bill. It is in the form of a 500k zip so how do we want to play this? For a start, Gmail will not let me send .exe files, even though they are inside a zip file and I'm not putting them into a password encrypted file to circumvent this so I'll send the archive with the extension changed to .xxx. If you don't know how to change that back to .zip may I suggest you contact Mr Gates and tell him that his method of file typing sucks and is a noddy system fit only for Toytown. Steve -- Forwarded message -- From: William Riley wjri...@embarqmail.com Date: 16 August 2010 02:32 Subject: Re: Fwd: [time-nuts] PicTic Data To: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com Steve: You are welcome to freely distribute the Small DMTD files. Best regards, Bill W.J. Riley Hamilton Technical Services 650 Distant Island Drive Beaufort, SC 29907-1580 USA Phone: 843-525-6495 Fax: 843-525-0251 E-Mail: b...@wriley.com Web: www.wriley.com -- From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 8:39 AM To: b...@wriley.com Subject: Fwd: [time-nuts] PicTic Data Hello Bill, I have not started on the DMTD project yet as I'm still in the process of building Richard's PICTIC II boards but Stanley Reynolds posted about your DMTD expressing a desire to build them. As I have all the info needed for this, I would be in a position to supply him and anyone else with this data BUT this depends upon your willingness for the distribution of your design to go beyond myself. If you are happy for me to do this, I will, otherwise, i will refrain from doing this? Best regards, Steve -- Forwarded message -- From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com Date: 16 August 2010 00:05 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PicTic Data To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com On 15 August 2010 17:01, Stanley Reynolds stanley_reyno...@yahoo.com wrote: Thanks for looking at my data that was what I was fishing for all along :-) I was looking at the article: A Small Dual Mixer Time Difference (DMTD) Clock Measuring System W.J. Riley Richard posted And thinking it would be nice to do the DSS and Mixer boards to go with the pictic II. I have been speaking to Bill Riley about doing this myself and he has sent me all the board designs, software, etc. to enable one to be built. I can ask him if he is OK if I distribute this if you wish. Steve Or changing the Pictic II to use the Acam TDC GP2 Time to Digital Converter; 2 channel w/65 ps resolution now under $30. as Bruce suggested a while back. My wants sure exceed my cans ;-) Stanley - Original Message From: John Miles jmi...@pop.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sat, August 14, 2010 11:25:44 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PicTic Data John glad you are getting good results and have something to compare to. Back to me who doesn't have any knowns but lots of guessing. Attached is a run with a box cover over the pictic, run is shorter ~ 800 seconds but the box does look like it helps. I need to do a lot more testing but sometimes I just get excited :-) I imported your .txt file alongside the traces I captured. Assuming it was taken with 1 Hz on both START and STOP, it looks like the attached. You're getting the exact sort of results that I see if I feed both the START and STOP inputs at 1 Hz. My guess is that the onboard oscillator limits the performance in that case, since it has a lot of time to drift during the measurement if the two pulses occur close to 1 second apart. Even the 5370B looks much worse if driven with 1 Hz on both inputs than it does with 1 Hz at START and 10 MHz at STOP. So I think you're basically up and running OK. When I get around to trying a better clock, I'll also go back and see if the 1-pps x2 performance improves. It would be great if the next spin of the board could include sine-to-CMOS shapers for the input channels as well as an external clock input, for people who are working directly with RF signals as opposed to 1-pps. -- john, KE5FX - Original Message From: John Miles jmi...@pop.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Sat, August 14, 2010 10:19:46 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PicTic Data A few preliminary measurements here (I'm working on getting some software support together): http://www.ke5fx.com/pictic.htm -- john, KE5FX -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com]on Behalf Of Stanley Reynolds Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 7:12 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] PicTic Data My guess as to what the data may indicate is performance of the 10 Mhz 20PPM
Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes
On 11/08/2010, Jean-Louis Oneto jean-louis.on...@obs-azur.fr wrote: Nevertheless, there is a mention (with picture) of mine de plomb (=lead pencil) in the French version of Wikipedia: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mine_de_plomb They were extensively used in Antiquity (Egyptians, Greeks and Roman). But I don't think they have RoHS compliant problems ;-} But the real question is, did they used to have a nice little pink useful eraser at the end of their pencils so they could clean up their PCBs back then? Steve Jean-Louis Oneto - Original Message - From: Alan Melia alan.me...@btinternet.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:12 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes Hi Jim ...being ironic...see the smiley Alan - Original Message - From: jimlux jim...@earthlink.net To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 11:55 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes Alan Melia wrote: Pencil?? only us oldies know what that is... it is surprising the lead pencil hasn't been banned under RoHS :-)) Alan G3NYK I don't know that lead (as in the element) has ever been used in pencils.. I read a fascinating book on the history of the pencil a few years back.. it described how graphite (the mines of Cumberland were famous for graphite with good writing/drawing properties) was called plumbago (lead ore) because chemical analysis didn't really exist and the dense black substance seemed to resemble lead. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] No Comment
No boss, I'm not late, I was going by Mecca Time :) Steve On 11/08/2010, Tom Holmes thol...@woh.rr.com wrote: Don... Some days, so do I :-). Tom N8ZM -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Don Latham Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 5:49 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No Comment Thing is, Islamic time stops 5 times a day... Don Tom Holmes The reality of this, hoping not to deteriorate the discussion into politics, is that outside of the scientific community, the greater mass of the population might be easily swayed to go along with the idea of moving to a different time standard. After all, most of the planet's populace has no clue about the need for standard time, or its history, and is likely to see the change as 'good'. And those who follow Islam will certainly not object, and they are a significant force on this planet. You have all seen instances where voters have defied logic and good sense to 'fix' a problem they could not be bothered to truly understand, so just voted on gut or heart or whatever their favorite talking head told them. So laugh or be skeptical, but be aware that there is enough power to make such a thing happen if properly sold. On the other hand, does it really matter? We have put up with the farce that is Daylight Saving Time for years. Tom, N8ZM -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of J. Forster Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 4:42 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] No Comment http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hghTFlnZ0yYigLDaCnQT8 xowHaJA -John == ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] No Comment
On 11 August 2010 13:51, Stanley Reynolds stanley_reyno...@yahoo.com wrote: Stanley time would have 10 seconds per minute, 10 minutes per hour, 10 hours per day ... No need for leap seconds if we remove all connections to celestial movements. To avoid any politics's in picking a starting point now would be zero and the past measured as negative time. Yes, to save any politics, time should start at some neutral point chronologically, like my birthday. That way, people older than me would actually be younger than they were before this was set up by the number of years that they were originally older than me, IE. someone older than me by 10 years would now be younger than me by 10 years as the time before my birth is negative and is taken away from the time after my birth. As there are a lot of elderly people in the wolrld, they are all bound to vote for this system so it's very likely it would be passed into global law. As for the meridian, it would have to pass thought 27 St Martins Place, where I was born, of course, but this would not be of great difficulty for most as this longitude is very close to Greenwich so there would be very little change to be made there. To celebrate the new Dawn Of Time (tm), there would be a Global holiday and for the first time in my life, at least a few people would be thankful that I was born. Having such a Global holiday, would mean there would be no problems with international business on that day as there would be no business on that day. As I do not believe and any form of deity, there would be no objections from any church as the time would be completely religion agnostic. All in all, an excellent win-win exercise. Steve PS. Just in case you are humour challenged :) From: Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Tue, August 10, 2010 8:25:37 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No Comment No boss, I'm not late, I was going by Mecca Time :) Steve On 11/08/2010, Tom Holmes thol...@woh.rr.com wrote: Don... Some days, so do I :-). Tom N8ZM -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Don Latham Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 5:49 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No Comment Thing is, Islamic time stops 5 times a day... Don Tom Holmes The reality of this, hoping not to deteriorate the discussion into politics, is that outside of the scientific community, the greater mass of the population might be easily swayed to go along with the idea of moving to a different time standard. After all, most of the planet's populace has no clue about the need for standard time, or its history, and is likely to see the change as 'good'. And those who follow Islam will certainly not object, and they are a significant force on this planet. You have all seen instances where voters have defied logic and good sense to 'fix' a problem they could not be bothered to truly understand, so just voted on gut or heart or whatever their favorite talking head told them. So laugh or be skeptical, but be aware that there is enough power to make such a thing happen if properly sold. On the other hand, does it really matter? We have put up with the farce that is Daylight Saving Time for years. Tom, N8ZM -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of J. Forster Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 4:42 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] No Comment http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hghTFlnZ0yYigLDaCnQT8 xowHaJA -John == ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind. R. Bacon Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL Six Mile Systems LLP 17850 Six Mile Road POB 134 Huson, MT, 59846 VOX 406-626-4304 www.lightningforensics.com www.sixmilesystems.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time
Re: [time-nuts] No Comment
How about StarTrek time! The time is StarDate . The next thing we know, every religion will want it's own time. I'd imagine that Scientology would currently be running in BS, Before Spaceship, as they are in countdown for the mother ship to come and collect them. :) Steve On 11 August 2010 14:28, Daniel Schultz n8...@usa.net wrote: I suppose Islamic time would be similar to the Islamic or Jewish calendar, used for timing religious observances, but Muslims living in western countries would follow local time derived from GMT for civil and business purposes. Just as Muslims and Jews use the Christian calendar for civil purposes. If they should succeed in converting the whole world to Islam, then maybe that could change but I'm not going to worry about that in my lifetime. What is the local time difference between Greenwich and Mecca anyway? I suppose it's not an integer number of hours. Dan Schultz N8FGV ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Remove Pictic boards from envelopes
On 11 August 2010 14:35, Charles P. Steinmetz charles_steinm...@lavabit.com wrote: Steve wrote: They just need the simple application of the little pink eraser (I was going to say rubber :) at the end of a pencil and a bit of elbow grease to come up looking shiny and new. Alternatively, a quick dip in TarnX (thiourea tarnish remover) should brighten them right up. Note that TarnX contains a chemical (thiourea) that has been found by the State of California to be a carcinogen (Luckily, I don't live in CA. It's apparently not carcinogenic here.) One of the pink paste silver polishes on a wet sponge would probably also work, but could remove some of the tin -- though likely not as much as an eraser. Of course you could make it even more complicated. Design and build a spaceship, travel to the Moon, collect some of the abrasive dust from its surface, travel back, make the Moon dust into a paste and rub this on the board. Alternatively use a pencil eraser, no expensive, dangerous and messy chemicals to use, just the humble inexpensive pencil you probably have hanging around anyway. KISS Steve Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock (Jim Palfreyman)
This is very interesting and I wonder if the capabilities of this system being applied to any clock pendulum. If this sort of control any pendulum, then I wonder if it's possible to sync it to some standard. Steve On 08/08/2010, Don Mimlitch donm...@yahoo.com wrote: Jim Said: It also has a coil mounted near the pendulum and a fixed magnet on the pendulum bar and this coil connects to a box down below with a meter and a knob. They are labeled in sec/day. The electronics in the box are not clear (being quite old) but by measuring the current in the coil it quite simply increases the current one way to slow the clock and the other way to speed it up. (I'll admit the physics of this doesn't make sense to me - but it works!) I have a Warren Telechron Master Clock used in Power Stations in the 20's to regulate the 60 Cycle so that household clocks using synchronous motors would be accurate to seconds a day. This clock has a similar permanent magnet at the end of the Pendulum and a battery connected to a potentiometer to adjust the current flow positive or negative in an electro-magnet below the pendulum.. If the bottom of the magnet in the pendulum is north and the current in the electromagnet is flowing such that its top face is North, then this will repel the pendulum causing its swing to be wider and contrary to common knowledge the swing of a fixed length pendulum is not constant regardless of the swing. (Huygens discovered this in 1670 an found by forcing the arc of the swing to be cycloid instead of circular he could produce uniform oscillation) Thus if the arc is longer the swing takes more time and the clock runs slower. If the current flows in the opposite direction and the two magnets attract then the arc is shortened and the clock runs faster. Of course my master clock isn't as accurate as a Riefler pendulum clock. Also the magnet in my clock has lost it's magnetism over time and I can't use this regulation. So the goal of your adaptation is to have precision control of the current flow in the positive or negative direction. Others on the list are better then me at describing how you might achieve this. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock (Jim Palfreyman)
This is very interesting and I wonder if the capabilities of this system being applied to any clock pendulum. If this sort of control any pendulum, then I wonder if it's possible to sync it to some standard. Steve On 08/08/2010, Don Mimlitch donm...@yahoo.com wrote: Jim Said: It also has a coil mounted near the pendulum and a fixed magnet on the pendulum bar and this coil connects to a box down below with a meter and a knob. They are labeled in sec/day. The electronics in the box are not clear (being quite old) but by measuring the current in the coil it quite simply increases the current one way to slow the clock and the other way to speed it up. (I'll admit the physics of this doesn't make sense to me - but it works!) I have a Warren Telechron Master Clock used in Power Stations in the 20's to regulate the 60 Cycle so that household clocks using synchronous motors would be accurate to seconds a day. This clock has a similar permanent magnet at the end of the Pendulum and a battery connected to a potentiometer to adjust the current flow positive or negative in an electro-magnet below the pendulum.. If the bottom of the magnet in the pendulum is north and the current in the electromagnet is flowing such that its top face is North, then this will repel the pendulum causing its swing to be wider and contrary to common knowledge the swing of a fixed length pendulum is not constant regardless of the swing. (Huygens discovered this in 1670 an found by forcing the arc of the swing to be cycloid instead of circular he could produce uniform oscillation) Thus if the arc is longer the swing takes more time and the clock runs slower. If the current flows in the opposite direction and the two magnets attract then the arc is shortened and the clock runs faster. Of course my master clock isn't as accurate as a Riefler pendulum clock. Also the magnet in my clock has lost it's magnetism over time and I can't use this regulation. So the goal of your adaptation is to have precision control of the current flow in the positive or negative direction. Others on the list are better then me at describing how you might achieve this. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Regulating a pendulum clock (Jim Palfreyman)
Sorry for double post, modem dropped during sending and a refresh on the browser when it was up resent the message. Steve On 08/08/2010, Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com wrote: This is very interesting and I wonder if the capabilities of this system being applied to any clock pendulum. If this sort of control any pendulum, then I wonder if it's possible to sync it to some standard. Steve On 08/08/2010, Don Mimlitch donm...@yahoo.com wrote: Jim Said: It also has a coil mounted near the pendulum and a fixed magnet on the pendulum bar and this coil connects to a box down below with a meter and a knob. They are labeled in sec/day. The electronics in the box are not clear (being quite old) but by measuring the current in the coil it quite simply increases the current one way to slow the clock and the other way to speed it up. (I'll admit the physics of this doesn't make sense to me - but it works!) I have a Warren Telechron Master Clock used in Power Stations in the 20's to regulate the 60 Cycle so that household clocks using synchronous motors would be accurate to seconds a day. This clock has a similar permanent magnet at the end of the Pendulum and a battery connected to a potentiometer to adjust the current flow positive or negative in an electro-magnet below the pendulum.. If the bottom of the magnet in the pendulum is north and the current in the electromagnet is flowing such that its top face is North, then this will repel the pendulum causing its swing to be wider and contrary to common knowledge the swing of a fixed length pendulum is not constant regardless of the swing. (Huygens discovered this in 1670 an found by forcing the arc of the swing to be cycloid instead of circular he could produce uniform oscillation) Thus if the arc is longer the swing takes more time and the clock runs slower. If the current flows in the opposite direction and the two magnets attract then the arc is shortened and the clock runs faster. Of course my master clock isn't as accurate as a Riefler pendulum clock. Also the magnet in my clock has lost it's magnetism over time and I can't use this regulation. So the goal of your adaptation is to have precision control of the current flow in the positive or negative direction. Others on the list are better then me at describing how you might achieve this. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] On Finding Things
On 08/08/2010, Matt Osborn kc0...@msosborn.com wrote: On Sun, 8 Aug 2010 02:38:53 +1200, Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com wrote: Well, that does make a lot of sense, it's just a pity that searching for the item you want frequently ends up fruitless but I agree that if you search for anything, your sure to find it. Senior moments are lifesavers; after a few moments I've forgotten what is was I was looking for and there it is. Of course, I've also forgotten why I was looking for whatever it was and my interests take a possibly new turn. That's a great philosophy! Keeps life fresh. Sure does. Steve -- kc0ukk at msosborn dot com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV G8KVD The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once. - Einstein ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
